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Is England even less competitive than Pakistan in Tests in Australia?

Bhaijaan

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England get smashed every time they play Ashes in Australia. They don’t even compete.

Pakistan hasn’t won anything in Australia this century but even they compete and give the Aussies some scare occasionally.

England are hopeless
 
It’s amazing that the only time England were competitive in Australia was when they went on to win the series. Alastair Cook scored big runs and dominated the series.
 
Andrew Strauss England won the Ashes down under, what has Pakistan achieved there in 5 decades
 
Lets just move this thread along to the desired conclusion.

Only India and Australia should play cricket.

Only India is competitive in Australia.

BGT is bigger than all sporting events combined.

India has won more BGT under Modi government than Congress.

No need for so many pages as Indians subtly weave their webs, thats basically where this is going.
 
Lets just move this thread along to the desired conclusion.

Only India and Australia should play cricket.

Only India is competitive in Australia.

BGT is bigger than all sporting events combined.

India has won more BGT under Modi government than Congress.

No need for so many pages as Indians subtly weave their webs, thats basically where this is going.
Does it matter anymore? Pakistani fans know it's painful to see England and Australia performance in australia so they don't have anything to defend.

:klopp :kp
 
On paper England looks strong. But the performances are not showing that.
Very disappointing show from England. They have been underachieving for a while now. They drew with India 2-2 at their home. Considering how poor Indian test team has been, it shows England needs new direction.

BMac needs to go.
 
Yes they are now. I mentioned this before that England's bowling is even worse than Pakistan's in Australia. While batting is equally pathetic
England’s bowling has gone to the dogs after the retirements of Anderson and Broad. Jofra is struggling with fitness and is no longer lethal. That’s the main reason we were able to draw in England on pitches where swing offered nothing. Gill played like Bradman on flat pitches.:ab
 
So far England's stay at the crease in this series

32.5 overs
34.4 overs
76.2 overs
75.2 overs
87.2 overs


If your team can't even bat 120 overs that is poor. In the last 10 yeasr out of 23 completed innings in Australia England batted more than 120 overs only once. That was in 2017 when Alistair cook made 244 not out.

Crossed 400 only twice in the last 10 years out of 23 completed innings. One barely 403. Other one is 491.
 
Pakistan on the other hand since 1999 (last 26 years) has crossed 400 only twice in Australia out of a 34 completed innings. They have batted 120 overs only thrice. You have to bat time.Only teams that batted team could win unleass the wicket was overly friendly to fast bowlers.
 
If you take out the 2010 Ashes series, England has nothing to show in Australia. But still they have a slightly better record than Pakistan in Australia. They have a test match in Australia in 1998, 2002
 
There was one match Pakistan declared at 443/9 in the boxing day test and went on to lose by an innings. 2016 pitches were absolute roads. Even pakistan batsmen feasted on it. Yet they contrived to lose it massively.
 
Pujara showed the template with the bat i.e. bat with the perfect technique, discipline, grit, determination, take blows to the body and tire out the Australian pace attach and make things easier for stroke makers at the other end

Alaister Cook, Jonathan Trott have also shown the template i.e. good defensive technique and good back foot stroke play.
 
Bazball has badly flopped in Australia. The reality is that England is a very soft team. They don't have the mental strength to fight, grit in tough conditions and in a hostile environment. How many times have you seen a bunch of English batsmen take blows to the bodies, fingers but refusing to throw away their wicket against some sustained tough hostile bowling. Mike Atherton was the only english batsman who batted like that against a prime Allan Donald in 1995 and 1998.
 
Pujara showed the template with the bat i.e. bat with the perfect technique, discipline, grit, determination, take blows to the body and tire out the Australian pace attach and make things easier for stroke makers at the other end

Alaister Cook, Jonathan Trott have also shown the template i.e. good defensive technique and good back foot stroke play.


Most number of balls faced in a series against Australia in Australia since 2010

Alistair cook 1438 balls - 2010 - England won the series
Pujara 1258 balls - 2018 - India won the series
Dravid 1203 balls - 2003 - series drawn
V KOhli 1093 balls - 2014 - series lost
MP Vaughan 1091 2002 - series lost
KPietersen 1011 balls 2006 - series lost
Collingwood 946 balls 2006 - series lost
Pujara 928 balls 2021 - India won the series.
Laxman 906 balls 2004 - series drawn
 
Most number of balls faced in a series against Australia in Australia since 2010

Alistair cook 1438 balls - 2010 - England won the series
Pujara 1258 balls - 2018 - India won the series
Dravid 1203 balls - 2003 - series drawn
V KOhli 1093 balls - 2014 - series lost
MP Vaughan 1091 2002 - series lost
KPietersen 1011 balls 2006 - series lost
Collingwood 946 balls 2006 - series lost
Pujara 928 balls 2021 - India won the series.
Laxman 906 balls 2004 - series drawn

I suspect Pujara had the lowest strike rate in this list. Even the Aussies in 2018 and 2021 admitted that he tired them out which allowed the other batsmen to cash in.
 
I suspect Pujara had the lowest strike rate in this list. Even the Aussies in 2018 and 2021 admitted that he tired them out which allowed the other batsmen to cash in.
He didn't take on short balls. He took it on the body. He wore them out then capitalized on it
 
Not sure about it.

Forget about 2011 series, Eng has drawn a couple of tests in Aus in the last 10 years. Pakistan has lost every test in the last 25 years or so. Having said that, Pakistan was in the game many times. But end results counts for something.
 
I am quite surprised with the way Eng performed so far, before the series I was expecting England to win the series 2-1. I guess I over estimated Jofra Archer by a big margin...
 
I am quite surprised with the way Eng performed so far, before the series I was expecting England to win the series 2-1. I guess I over estimated Jofra Archer by a big margin...
Especially with 2 missing stalwart bowlers and them having world no.1 no.2 ranked batsmen and maverick captain. This team simply cannot bat time. That is what wins you matches in Australia. Australians are relentless. They will keep putting the ball in the same area all day. Their muscles are trained to do that. Nothing fancy. Batsmen who can't strike a balance between attack and defense get exposed.
 
Not sure about it.

Forget about 2011 series, Eng has drawn a couple of tests in Aus in the last 10 years. Pakistan has lost every test in the last 25 years or so. Having said that, Pakistan was in the game many times. But end results counts for something.

England arrives in Australia with fanfare and hype unlike Pakistan. England also has the resources to win in Australia, they just do not take an Australian tour seriously from a preparation point of view unlike the way India did in 2018 and 2021. Winning in Australia requires preparation, planning for months before the series and then acclimatizing to the conditions.

The secret behind England's win in 2010 were their preparations.
 
England has not been very competitive in Australia this century for sure. Their sole win (3-1) was in 2010/11.

Pak on the other hand, has lost 15 straight tests in Australia which is as bad as it gets in any team sport, let alone cricket. Some of those games were close affairs (due to magical bowling spells by Asif etc.) for sure but Pak batting let them down each time.

The two teams that have won more test series in Australia this century are South Africa and India.

South Africa has won THREE test series in Australia this century; 2008/9 (2-1), 2012/13 (1-0) and 2016/17 (2-1).

India has won TWICE this century in Australia in 2018/19 (2-1) and 2020/21 (2-1
 
England arrives in Australia with fanfare and hype unlike Pakistan. England also has the resources to win in Australia, they just do not take an Australian tour seriously from a preparation point of view unlike the way India did in 2018 and 2021. Winning in Australia requires preparation, planning for months before the series and then acclimatizing to the conditions.

The secret behind England's win in 2010 were their preparations.
England has been preparing for 4 years. This was the dream of this unit. They were supposed to display their "bazball" on this tour. As a stroke of luck Australia even lost 2 of their premiere fast bowlers one of them being the captain. They also bat deep. Yet coudln't bat long enough.
 
There were enough warnings about bazball making their bowlers more weary and tired quicker. Here again they didn't quiet exactly play bazball. But they did not get enough rest. Think about it. England bowled 91.2 overs in the first innings. Archer bowled 20 overs. After 54 overs (about 2 sessions) Archer came to bat. He batted for 33 overs. He again had to come on to the park. Similarly Stokes bowled 19 overs in the first innigns. Then he came to crease after 17 overs. Batted for 68 overs.
Two of their premiere bowlers had to bat longer than the batsmen. They couldn't bowl immediately. This is why batting time is important. Especially their no.3 is the biggest culprit.
 
The first 2 tests was golden chance for Eng due to 3 main bowlers missing.
 
I was recently give the stats for Eng vs aus in aus by @harshjoshi87 (am sure, it was you) and really that was a super surprise, i really thought they would have been better in Aus conditions.
Am sure the matches i followed for pak, they were more competitive - i recall a day night match in which Sami ayub almost won off his own batting or a game in 2011 or so when due to repeated dropped catches, mike hussy played a match winning knock and enabled a lead which then pak batting collapsed whilst chasing this.
I cant recall England giving this kind of competitiveness or any match being even - its always one sided- the ashes - in Aus.
To think that they had 2.5 years or so to build up for this series and perform in this way, its dismal.
And i still feel England is a much better side than this.
 
Pujara showed the template with the bat i.e. bat with the perfect technique, discipline, grit, determination, take blows to the body and tire out the Australian pace attach and make things easier for stroke makers at the other end

Alaister Cook, Jonathan Trott have also shown the template i.e. good defensive technique and good back foot stroke play.
Good point, bro.

Missing in your list - i would add Faf De Plessis - he also has played long innings to help draw and win tests in aus.

But i disagree on your other post in which you say "England also has the resources to win in Australia, they just do not take an Australian tour seriously from a preparation point of view " - they certainly do. The Ashes is the top most must win for them.
Its just that they have run into a more formidable Aus unit that their best preparations have gone awry.

Their only hope now is the next ashes tour inaus with Aus probably having a totally different set of bowlers who may not be as good.
 
Seeing Pakistan's last tour and comparing it with England current one, you might get the idea that Pakistan did a better job.. Those drop catches from Abduallha and his clueless batting cost Pakistan games
 
Bazball has badly flopped in Australia. The reality is that England is a very soft team. They don't have the mental strength to fight, grit in tough conditions and in a hostile environment. How many times have you seen a bunch of English batsmen take blows to the bodies, fingers but refusing to throw away their wicket against some sustained tough hostile bowling. Mike Atherton was the only english batsman who batted like that against a prime Allan Donald in 1995 and 1998.


Bazball turned out to be typical English marketing jargon. Whenever England has been under the hammer, we didn’t hear a word about it. Look at the way Crawley is batting right now.
 
Not sure about it.

Forget about 2011 series, Eng has drawn a couple of tests in Aus in the last 10 years. Pakistan has lost every test in the last 25 years or so. Having said that, Pakistan was in the game many times. But end results counts for something.

Pakistan’s case is unique.
On paper they lost 15 straight test matches but those of us who watched the matches remember they should have won a few of those. They bottled it.

With England, there is rarely ever even a fight. Australia just drags them through the mud and bulldoze them mercilessly. I would actually like to know how many English players ever fathered a children after coming from an Ashes hammering.
 
I was recently give the stats for Eng vs aus in aus by @harshjoshi87 (am sure, it was you) and really that was a super surprise, i really thought they would have been better in Aus conditions.
Am sure the matches i followed for pak, they were more competitive - i recall a day night match in which Sami ayub almost won off his own batting or a game in 2011 or so when due to repeated dropped catches, mike hussy played a match winning knock and enabled a lead which then pak batting collapsed whilst chasing this.
I cant recall England giving this kind of competitiveness or any match being even - its always one sided- the ashes - in Aus.
To think that they had 2.5 years or so to build up for this series and perform in this way, its dismal.
And i still feel England is a much better side than this.
I had posted stats about India being #1 travelling team since 2015, Eng v Aus stats were probably posted by @jnaveen1980.
 
Pakistan came pretty close to beating Australia in Sydney, were very competitive in Melbourne and then there was that 2016 Brisbane test aswell where we could have gotten a fairytale ending...when has England even been as competitive during the same time period, despite playing far more matches?

Pakistan doesn't play 5 test matches in a series in Australia. And playing 5 matches over 2-3 obviously allows you more time to settle into conditions, get used to pitches. That doesn't change Pakistan's torrid record to Australia but context is important, and Pakistan have shown more fight in Australia than England in the past decade or so, who have largely just surrendered in embarrassing ways.
 
Pakistan came pretty close to beating Australia in Sydney, were very competitive in Melbourne and then there was that 2016 Brisbane test aswell where we could have gotten a fairytale ending...when has England even been as competitive during the same time period, despite playing far more matches?

Pakistan doesn't play 5 test matches in a series in Australia. And playing 5 matches over 2-3 obviously allows you more time to settle into conditions, get used to pitches. That doesn't change Pakistan's torrid record to Australia but context is important, and Pakistan have shown more fight in Australia than England in the past decade or so, who have largely just surrendered in embarrassing ways.

1999-2000, you should have won 1 test where Gilchrist and Langer had an partnership. Was there for the taking that test match.
 
England aren't as bad as they are looking lately. It's bazball that has destroyed things for them.

We have not even seen Pak vs AUS being at least drawn in Aus for decades now.

England last won an Ashes series in Australia during the 2010-11 tour. Pakistan never did so.
 
I suspect Pujara had the lowest strike rate in this list. Even the Aussies in 2018 and 2021 admitted that he tired them out which allowed the other batsmen to cash in.

Aussie pundits and coach Langer said the pitches for those two series were flat, which helped the Indian batsmen.
 
The biggest problem is England have picked some very weak characters and made weak decisions. Bazball was only supposed to be about the batting approach, it was also belief, strength and strong decisions.

Jofra - weak
Pope - weak
Brook - weak
Atkinson - weak
Crawley - weak (the odd innings doesn’t undo it)
Duckett (surprisingly weak too - I thought he may have some dog in him)

Weak decisions - real cop out to try and basically base your bowling strategy solely on Archer - anyone who has followed his career knows he is no leader of an attack.

The Bashir problem - I’m not saying he’s great. But why pick him? That in itself is a weak decision, but let’s say they something the rest of us didn’t at selection time, it’s incredibly weak to not play him and use a part time spinner like Jacks instead.

It’s been a pathetic tour
 
Not sure about it.

Forget about 2011 series, Eng has drawn a couple of tests in Aus in the last 10 years. Pakistan has lost every test in the last 25 years or so. Having said that, Pakistan was in the game many times. But end results counts for something.

Are you counting those instances of the Poms gasping for breath 9 down with rain saving the day?

Every one of the last few series should have been a 5-zip. A few of them were - 06/07 and 13/14.
 
Are you counting those instances of the Poms gasping for breath 9 down with rain saving the day?

Every one of the last few series should have been a 5-zip. A few of them were - 06/07 and 13/14.
I take my satement back. I could at least watch Pak-Aus with a bit more interest than Aus-Eng.

Eng has been worse. Absolutely no fight. 5 zip or 1 draw can distract from how bad Eng has been in Aus.
 
The biggest problem is England have picked some very weak characters and made weak decisions. Bazball was only supposed to be about the batting approach, it was also belief, strength and strong decisions.

Jofra - weak
Pope - weak
Brook - weak
Atkinson - weak
Crawley - weak (the odd innings doesn’t undo it)
Duckett (surprisingly weak too - I thought he may have some dog in him)

Weak decisions - real cop out to try and basically base your bowling strategy solely on Archer - anyone who has followed his career knows he is no leader of an attack.

The Bashir problem - I’m not saying he’s great. But why pick him? That in itself is a weak decision, but let’s say they something the rest of us didn’t at selection time, it’s incredibly weak to not play him and use a part time spinner like Jacks instead.

It’s been a pathetic tour
Adding to that list, Jamie Smith is another average England batsman.
 
I take my satement back. I could at least watch Pak-Aus with a bit more interest than Aus-Eng.

Eng has been worse. Absolutely no fight. 5 zip or 1 draw can distract from how bad Eng has been in Aus.

Back in the day, even bog average English teams could rally to a win at the SCG (admittedly when Warne or McGrath were absent). Today they can't even manage such a thing.
 
Stokes should have also done better in Australia than what he has delivered in this tour and the previous ones. His skill sets align with his ability to perform better than what he did in Australia.
 
I remember an instance many series ago where either Langer or Gilchrist was caught behind off Akram but it wasn't given. Pakistan went on to lose that test. Anybody remember this?
*** for tat :) . But Pakistan umpiring was even worse back then. The video where Mcgrath traps Inzamam twice in one over stone dead both were not given. But nobody suffered in Australia more than India when it comes to umpiring. Despite all that India was way more competitive for a subcontinent team.
 
Aussie pundits and coach Langer said the pitches for those two series were flat, which helped the Indian batsmen.
Australia opened the gates themselves in 2nd test of Melbourne when they got bowled out at 180 odd in first innings of Day 1 on the so called flat pitch. They could have batted big and make India suffer more after the first test debacle. It was brilliant day 1 spell from Ashwin and Siraj and captaincy by Rahane.
 
Stokes should have also done better in Australia than what he has delivered in this tour and the previous ones. His skill sets align with his ability to perform better than what he did in Australia.
There are a few things that work well in Australia. batting time/ consistent line and length. Mostly fuller length. People can get carried away with bounce and bowl short here. SOuth Africa doing well in Australia should not be a big thing. Because South African conditions are exactly similar albeit they also have more movement than Australia. For South Africans , Australian wickets are road wickets as they are used to bounce already and also Kookaburra ball. Pakistan atleast plays kookaburra ball. But West Indies/England play duke at home. India plays SG at home. For India it is more unfamiliar than any other team. NZ also sucks here
 
Bruh, then Yusuf and his dumb field placings for their tail. We should have known it was all set up for a classic Pakistan choke :(
Well Yousuf is one of the worst captains Pakistan has ever had, so that part never surprised me, but had that moron Kami even held on to one of those catches of Michael Hussey it would have almost certainly allowed us to win the match. Even chasing 180 odd should have been a walk in the park for any other team. Although by that point I was almost certain that Pakistan would not chase it just because of how they had mentally disintegrated over the course of that match.
 
There are a few things that work well in Australia. batting time/ consistent line and length. Mostly fuller length. People can get carried away with bounce and bowl short here. SOuth Africa doing well in Australia should not be a big thing. Because South African conditions are exactly similar albeit they also have more movement than Australia. For South Africans , Australian wickets are road wickets as they are used to bounce already and also Kookaburra ball. Pakistan atleast plays kookaburra ball. But West Indies/England play duke at home. India plays SG at home. For India it is more unfamiliar than any other team. NZ also sucks here
Not all pitches are same. There is movement in first 20 overs in Australia too. England do well in South Africa, a place harder than Australia to bat. Stokes record is much better in South Africa than in Australia. He should have done better here with bat given his ability vs pace and bounce. But he has mostly struggled there.
 
That's the one.

A pretty packed Pakistani side it was too. All came to naught - with a whitewash.
It was a very evenly match series until the final day in Hobart. A victory there would have changed the complexion of the series. They were never coming back from that demoralising loss in the 3rd test.

2004/5 was a good start, they had the Aussies on the ropes in the first 2 sessions of the series. And again in the second test good innings by Yousuf and Younis and bowling by Shoaib, but if you don’t capitalise, you don’t deserve to win.

Sydney 2010 was a complete oddity. Have no idea how we lost that match too.

Since then it’s just been worse and worse. 2016-17 was abysmal and just a very weak show. 2019 was terrible with the “young team” excuse.

And the last tour was another meh one. The odd decent session was never gonna result in a victory.

Sad to say that on most tours, the so called “seniors” have been pathetic. Inzi even chickened out the last two tests in 2004/5.
 
It was a very evenly match series until the final day in Hobart. A victory there would have changed the complexion of the series. They were never coming back from that demoralising loss in the 3rd test.

2004/5 was a good start, they had the Aussies on the ropes in the first 2 sessions of the series. And again in the second test good innings by Yousuf and Younis and bowling by Shoaib, but if you don’t capitalise, you don’t deserve to win.

Sydney 2010 was a complete oddity. Have no idea how we lost that match too.

Since then it’s just been worse and worse. 2016-17 was abysmal and just a very weak show. 2019 was terrible with the “young team” excuse.

And the last tour was another meh one. The odd decent session was never gonna result in a victory.

Sad to say that on most tours, the so called “seniors” have been pathetic. Inzi even chickened out the last two tests in 2004/5.
Just to add the loser attitude in the last 10 years has been pathetic too

Misbah: “Vell our 90s team got vhitevashed too, so don’t expect anything from our team”
 
Not all pitches are same. There is movement in first 20 overs in Australia too. England do well in South Africa, a place harder than Australia to bat. Stokes record is much better in South Africa than in Australia. He should have done better here with bat given his ability vs pace and bounce. But he has mostly struggled there.

Australia is easier conditions to bat than South Africa in general. True hard surface. Movements are not even close to what you get at Newlands unless it is day night match. In South Africa it is the movement that poses more problems in comparison than bounce. I know there are some p itches where you get variable bounce something even South Africans struggle against. Overall Australian pitcehs are fairly predictable and stay true most of the time. If you are willing to dig in you can. Many of our batsmen have feasted on Australian pithces over the last 25 years compared to SA pitches. England should have done much better here.
 
If you give Pakistan 5 tests in Australia every few years like England get, they will win a few for sure.
5 test series is too much for Subcontinent players. They won't survive 5 tests. They will be falling like flies. It is tough even for India.
 
Not sure about who is worse but the hype and caling this aussie team weak andd moral victory is just embarassing man, even shan masood who I think is just a n average bloke had atleast accepted that end results matter most while these guys are just here for a moral victory tour and even that's not happeneing they can't even win sessions lol
 
If you give Pakistan 5 tests in Australia every few years like England get, they will win a few for sure.
Yes, it's true. Also bearing in mind the series would be a 5-match encounter could make PCT take it damn series. Instead of jotting down name of regular bunch of convicts on squad paper.
 
Australia is easier conditions to bat than South Africa in general. True hard surface. Movements are not even close to what you get at Newlands unless it is day night match. In South Africa it is the movement that poses more problems in comparison than bounce. I know there are some p itches where you get variable bounce something even South Africans struggle against. Overall Australian pitcehs are fairly predictable and stay true most of the time. If you are willing to dig in you can. Many of our batsmen have feasted on Australian pithces over the last 25 years compared to SA pitches. England should have done much better here.
What’s the point, isn’t that what I mean in the initial post? Stokes should have done well here with his skills but he didn’t.
 
Seeing England's performance in this ashes, we can say that they performed even worse than Pakistan.
 
What’s the point, isn’t that what I mean in the initial post? Stokes should have done well here with his skills but he didn’t.
Today they just had to block block block and put away loose balls. That is what they were doing. THen came the idiotic shot lol Jamie smith is doing it second time. He had opportunity to draw the test at edgbaston. Succumbed to tempting slow bouncer
 
There was a stat of highest totals in the 2nd innings and India were in there 3 times out of 5. We lost the games though.

India's performance in Australia is severely underrated :dhoni

btw, what happened to our ethnic English posters here. Foresight to skip the Ashes?
 
The funny thing is that English cricketers never stop hyping up the Ashes and how much it ‘means’ to them yet they crap their pants every time there’s an Ashes in Australia. At least stay true to your words and show some jazba daleri. You can’t hype up a series to the moon and then get spanked in it on a regular basis.
 
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