Is Imran Khan the greatest Test cricketer since 1970?

[Ted123]

Who is the greatest test cricketer in last 55 years?

I have tried to keep this discussion from 1970 onwards so the obvious choices such as Bradman and Sobers gets eliminated. Since 1970, we always had 6-7 good teams as India, Pakistan and New Zealand shed their minnow tags by now.

Let’s look at the obvious choices:-

Batting - Viv, Tendulkar, Lara, Smith, Gavaskar

Bowling - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Warne, Murali

All rounders - Imran Khan, Jacques Kallis

Imran Khan is not only a top tier fast bowler in Test cricket but with an average of 38 with bat, he is also a genuine all rounder and did well vs the best side of his era, Windies.

Imran Khan edges out as the greatest Test cricketer in my opinion because of his exceptional all-round ability, leadership, and long-term impact on cricket.

He has a bowling average of 22, which is exceptional but add to that, his batting average of 38 takes his impact to next level. Hadlee also averages 22 with bowl but only 26 with bat. Marshall averages 20 with bowl but barely 16-17 with bat. Botham and Kapil are clearly behind as test cricketers.

Kallis run him close but Imran’s match winning ability probably strengthens his case more than Kallis.

Discuss!

 

[Kianig89]

Not sure how you will define greatness, for some Pakistan fans greatness is performance in big games and performance against arch rivals and rightly so.

Imran Khan as Captain vs India

ODIs P 23 W 19 L 4

Test P 15 W 4 D 11 L 0

Overall 6 Man of Series Award

---------------------------
For me this is greatness not to mention 92WC

 

[The Bald Eagle]

@Rajdeep @cricketjoshila @uppercut. Please comment

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I hope some people won't run away now as no comparison with their GOAT candidate here. IYKWIM. Also another IK thread hasn't been bumped since last week

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Imran Khan's true impact on Pak cricket is highly underrated. We have been consistently ordinary except for the brief period when he was pulling our cricket forward & the slipstream his afterburners left. By this I mean that

1. He dragged us away from a being a spin loving Hanifs defensive style based stodgy cricketing nation
2. We never had a fast bowler before him, Fazl wasn't fast he was military medium with a great leg cutter
3. All our great wins coincide with his career, first test win in Australia, series win in Eng, Ind, competitive cricket with WI, ODI WC, etc.
4. He is the reason why we have a positive record with Ind.
5. He became our cricketing face. Reverse swing, fast bowling, s*x appeal, aggression, & suave class
6. Neutral umpires (it's not talked often but it's a great feat to introduce that for your home series by your own self)
7. By slipstream I meant cricketers that were touched by him & reached greatness. Wasim, Waqar, Inzi, Malik, Ijaz, Anwar, Mushtaq, Aqib, were all handpicked by him. The standards of our cricket continue to decline everyday & even a player like Salim Malik now would be better than our current most famous cricketing superstar.
8. Besides that 20 plus or so years where Pak had a good record, Pak as a cricketing nation are as ordinary if not worse than Bangladesh. We have net negative record against most nations & our SENA record in last 30 years is just plain ugly. Last won a test in Aus in 96, never won a series in RSA/Aus, not won a test series in Eng since 96, get beaten black & blue in Nzl, etc.

Now, coming to the point. It's hard to say which cricketer is the greatest, Kallis has the numbers, Sachin carried India on his shoulders, etc. so I never compare IK to anyone else. To me his political career has overshadowed his cricketing legacy which is terrible.

He was undoubtedly our greatest cricketing legend & at his prime, in his time, he was the absolute poster boy of cricket.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

not only a Test cricketer but i would say he is one of the bast all format player for Pakistan who had achieved alot for Pakistan

 

[uppercut]

@Rajdeep @cricketjoshila @uppercut. Please comment

I hope some people won't run away now as no comparison with their GOAT candidate here. IYKWIM. Also another IK thread hasn't been bumped since last week

Are you sure ? I mean you ran away when I asked you simple questions on how bowling averages are calculated LOL

Confirm if you can answer simple questions without escaping ( I will be here though no matter what !)

 

[topspin]

No doubt, Pakistan’s greatest player of all-time. His only major blunder was to switch from cricket to politics after he retired.

 

[Ab Fan]

As a cricketer, he is definitely right up there.

He had a long career and despite that, at no point he was a burden for his country like Kapil Dev, Sachin Tendulkar, Virat Kohli were for India. His best performance with the bowl lasted till 1988. Post that, he straightaway became a pure batsman who would be 5th bowler in the team and his stats with bat are phenomenal in 1989,1990 and 1991. He played one more test in 1992 and retired.

Australia, England, South Africa, India and New Zealand have never produced an all rounder of his calibre over their entire history.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Cannot say that he is the greatest but he definitely is one of the greatest of all time. His record is class and his impact on Pakistan cricket is so great that it will take decades to match that.

 

[Itachi]

Suddenly seeing the trend of IK too many to ignore.

Is there something happened ?

 

[Hitman]

Such a shame he never comes up on top whenever such lists of greatest cricketers are compiled by credible ex cricketers and other sources in the game, LOL.

 

[Ab Fan]

In Test cricket, I feel Steve Smith really makes a strong case for contention of best test cricketer in last 50 years. He just need to retire on time. Don’t let the average slip under 55.

As all format players, Glenn McGrath and Sachin Tendulkar are undoubtedly the best in last 55 years.

 

[Hitman]

Sir Ian Botham said it best in his book ....

Imran khan 'not good enough' in Sir Botham's book​

NOT many would believe that England cricket legend Ian Botham is a prolific author, but he is. Botham has written more than one autobiography, tour books, an unputdownable with his former Somerset captain Peter Roebuck entitled It Sort of Clicks and one called Botham's Century which features his most admired cricket personalities.

Botham spoke about how hard it was to restrict the book to 50 personalities and even expressed a desire to write on 50 greatest sportsmen of his time.

Asked by the interviewer whether Pakistan great Imran Khan would be in it, Botham said: "No, he wouldn't get close. Wasn't good enough. It's not a personal thing. He just wasn't good enough." It can be recalled that Botham sued Imran Khan over ball-tampering in 1996 and lost.

"Maybe only two cricketers would get into my world top 50, Viv (Richards) and Shane Warne. Though I'd have to consider (Sachin) Tendulkar and (Brian) Lara."

According to Botham, men who would make his top ten in that book would be Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Johan Cruyff, and Sean Fitzpatrick (All Blacks rugby star).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/sports/othe...--not-good-enough--in-Sir-Botham-s-book-68225​

 

[pratiktc]

Greatest is a very subjective term.

Imran was certainly a very high impact player in terms of contribution to the teams he was part of. He managed to maintain his peak as an elite bowler for a good 7-8 yrs which is commendable. In these years he had almost 4-5 good seasons with good batter output as well.

A case can be made for him to be highest contributing player in the world. But there are others that are around his level viz.
1) Ian Botham was a higher impact player in his peak albeit over a shorter 4-5 year period

2) Hadlee had a much longer peak (10-11 yrs) as an elite level bowler and carried more workload for a consistently mediocre side

3) Kallis had a long peak as an elite batter (10-11 yrs) and contributed as a support bowler regularly.

 

[amax]

1. Besides that 20 plus or so years where Pak had a good record, Pak as a cricketing nation are as ordinary if not worse than Bangladesh. We have net negative record against most nations & our SENA record in last 30 years is just plain ugly. Last won a test in Aus in 96, never won a series in RSA/Aus, not won a test series in Eng since 96, get beaten black & blue in Nzl.

Agree fully on that, apart from the period from 1977 to maybe around 2005(stretching both ends a bit), we have largely been a mediocre team. In contrast, India(not comparing ourselves to the developed nations, with much higher per capita) has consistently been good, dating back to the late 1960s and 1970s, and has followed a steady growth trajectory. This highlights the importance of getting the basics right: building grassroots institutions and academies is crucial for long-term success. Pakistan’s "golden era" was largely driven by the two personalities from two cities(cultures),Imran Khan and Javed Miandad,which is not a sustainable formula for consistant success.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Agree fully on that, apart from the period from 1977 to maybe around 2005(stretching both ends a bit), we have largely been a mediocre team. In contrast, India(not comparing ourselves to the developed nations, with much higher per capita) has consistently been good, dating back to the late 1960s and 1970s, and has followed a steady growth trajectory. This highlights the importance of getting the basics right: building grassroots institutions and academies is crucial for long-term success. Pakistan’s "golden era" was largely driven by the two personalities from two cities(cultures),Imran Khan and Javed Miandad,which is not a sustainable formula for consistant success.

Pak record in Aus/RSA and even NZL in the last few tours reads like a horror story.

Test record in Australia since that Sydney win back in 95/96: L L L L L L all the way down to the recent series in 2023/24. I'd never want them to invite me to play a test series after this performance.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sir Ian Botham said it best in his book ....

Imran khan 'not good enough' in Sir Botham's book​

NOT many would believe that England cricket legend Ian Botham is a prolific author, but he is. Botham has written more than one autobiography, tour books, an unputdownable with his former Somerset captain Peter Roebuck entitled It Sort of Clicks and one called Botham's Century which features his most admired cricket personalities.

Botham spoke about how hard it was to restrict the book to 50 personalities and even expressed a desire to write on 50 greatest sportsmen of his time.

Asked by the interviewer whether Pakistan great Imran Khan would be in it, Botham said: "No, he wouldn't get close. Wasn't good enough. It's not a personal thing. He just wasn't good enough." It can be recalled that Botham sued Imran Khan over ball-tampering in 1996 and lost.

"Maybe only two cricketers would get into my world top 50, Viv (Richards) and Shane Warne. Though I'd have to consider (Sachin) Tendulkar and (Brian) Lara."

According to Botham, men who would make his top ten in that book would be Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Johan Cruyff, and Sean Fitzpatrick (All Blacks rugby star).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/sports/othe...--not-good-enough--in-Sir-Botham-s-book-68225​

Imran definitely would have gone down as the greatest test cricketer since 1970 if the wickets he picked on home pitches between 1980-1986 wasn’t the result of reverse swing achieved via ball tampering. That’s probably the reason why he doesn’t have the same level of peer reputation. He would have still be an ATG but just about on par with Botham or Kapil.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Imran definitely would have gone down as the greatest test cricketer since 1970 if the wickets he picked on home pitches between 1980-1986 wasn’t the result of reverse swing achieved via ball tampering. That’s probably the reason why he doesn’t have the same level of peer reputation. He would have still be an ATG but just about on par with Botham or Kapil.

All you guys know Botham and IK were bitter rivals

 

[amax]

Sir Ian Botham said it best in his book ....

Imran khan 'not good enough' in Sir Botham's book​

NOT many would believe that England cricket legend Ian Botham is a prolific author, but he is. Botham has written more than one autobiography, tour books, an unputdownable with his former Somerset captain Peter Roebuck entitled It Sort of Clicks and one called Botham's Century which features his most admired cricket personalities.

Botham spoke about how hard it was to restrict the book to 50 personalities and even expressed a desire to write on 50 greatest sportsmen of his time.

Asked by the interviewer whether Pakistan great Imran Khan would be in it, Botham said: "No, he wouldn't get close. Wasn't good enough. It's not a personal thing. He just wasn't good enough." It can be recalled that Botham sued Imran Khan over ball-tampering in 1996 and lost.

"Maybe only two cricketers would get into my world top 50, Viv (Richards) and Shane Warne. Though I'd have to consider (Sachin) Tendulkar and (Brian) Lara."

According to Botham, men who would make his top ten in that book would be Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Johan Cruyff, and Sean Fitzpatrick (All Blacks rugby star).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/sports/othe...--not-good-enough--in-Sir-Botham-s-book-68225​

whats its about , greatest sportsman , greatest personalities? I kinda agree with his "very personal" opinion, no cricketer will come close, even from pakistan Jahangir Khan and Shahbaz ahmad senior are better candidates

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

If not the greatest, surely in top three greatest....i remember Richie Benaud naming him in top 5 of the all time cricketers till 2000...
considering the impact he had - no doubts at all...
as a young indian boy - whenever he was on - me and my bro's were hooked onto the telly....
this mohabbat with pak pace progressed to Wasim, waqar, shobaib , mo zahid, a guy i consider very talented but somehow didnt receive the guidance -shabbir ahmed, mo asif- what a waste of talent -that guy...

any ways, IK brought backsides to seats, the time stopped when that diamond catwalk of a runup was on...you just could not go away from watching....
as tony greig would say...Whaddaplayaah!

as for india alone - for me the greatest indian player all time was Kapil!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Undoubtedly. For the tag of greatest "cricketer" it should be an all rounder or a specialist in one field who was also captain.

These are the players who by having multiple roles stamp their authority on the team, the game and define styles of play that are remembered across eras.

Warne is probably the only exception to this because of his mental strength and charisma.

 

[Rajdeep]

Suddenly seeing the trend of IK too many to ignore.

Is there something happened ?

Yes. Bumrah getting ICC cricketer of the year award triggered some eagles.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Yes. Bumrah getting ICC cricketer of the year award triggered some eagles.

Any thoughts on thread topic?

 

[Rajdeep]

Any thoughts on thread topic?

Imran was one of the great cricketers, though I have never seen him play. However, calling him greatest test cricketer of last 50 years is subjective and a definite exaggeration. Being an all rounder is not directly proportional to greatest cricketer else likes of Jadeja, Ashwin, Shakib etc would have won many ICC cricketer of the year awards in modern era.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Imran was one of the great cricketers, though I have never seen him play. However, calling him greatest test cricketer of last 50 years is subjective and a definite exaggeration. Being an all rounder is not directly proportional to greatest cricketer else likes of Jadeja, Ashwin, Shakib etc would have won many ICC cricketer of the year awards in modern era.

Yep finally some good response

 

[Rajdeep]

Yep finally some good response
View attachment 150648

What does this copy paste even mean?

He was one of the finest fast bowlers in the world? Who denies that?

The greatest cricketer to emerge from Pakistan? Maybe. Though I rate Wasim higher but its subjective

Arguably worlds second best all rounder after Gary Sobers? Yes arguably...some will say and others no.

Everything you posted is agreed. However, there is no way to justify that he was the greatest test cricketer of last 50 years.

You are speaking like a fan boy now

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What does this copy paste even mean?

He was one of the finest fast bowlers in the world? Who denies that?

The greatest cricketer to emerge from Pakistan? Maybe. Though I rate Wasim higher but its subjective

Arguably worlds second best all rounder after Gary Sobers? Yes arguably...some will say and others no.

Everything you posted is agreed. However, there is no way to justify that he was the greatest test cricketer of last 50 years.

You are speaking like a fan boy now

Did you not see some awards which he received....lol just puncture your false narrative like cricketer of the year gloom

 

[Hikaru]

Only read such claims in Pakistani forums and thats understandable. Perhaps the greatest ever to represent Pakistan after Akram.

 

[mominsaigol]

Jokes aside, Bumrah deserves icc cricketer of the year. India would have won BGT, if someone else actually bothered to share the burden with him, even if the others were half decent then India would have won, But instead India swore an oath to become the next trundler brigade against Australia.

And he won India 2024 wc. India would have lost pak, Aus and Sa games if it weren't for him.

 

[Fanboy375]

Sir Ian Botham said it best in his book ....

Imran khan 'not good enough' in Sir Botham's book​

NOT many would believe that England cricket legend Ian Botham is a prolific author, but he is. Botham has written more than one autobiography, tour books, an unputdownable with his former Somerset captain Peter Roebuck entitled It Sort of Clicks and one called Botham's Century which features his most admired cricket personalities.

Botham spoke about how hard it was to restrict the book to 50 personalities and even expressed a desire to write on 50 greatest sportsmen of his time.

Asked by the interviewer whether Pakistan great Imran Khan would be in it, Botham said: "No, he wouldn't get close. Wasn't good enough. It's not a personal thing. He just wasn't good enough." It can be recalled that Botham sued Imran Khan over ball-tampering in 1996 and lost.

"Maybe only two cricketers would get into my world top 50, Viv (Richards) and Shane Warne. Though I'd have to consider (Sachin) Tendulkar and (Brian) Lara."

According to Botham, men who would make his top ten in that book would be Usain Bolt, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, Johan Cruyff, and Sean Fitzpatrick (All Blacks rugby star).
--------------------------------------------------------------
Link: https://www.mid-day.com/sports/othe...--not-good-enough--in-Sir-Botham-s-book-68225​

But wasn't Imran his all rounder rival in 80s.