Is India going to lose the No.1 spot in the ICC Test Rankings?

[theariezman]

I am not trolling India but just curious with current Indian form and not favoring home conditions is India going to lose their No.1 spot in ICC Test Rankings.

With 120 Ranking points currently India topping the chart while NZ placed themselves at No.4 with 105 points.

How does Raking look alike if India loses the Test series?

 

[tyron_woodley]

I am not trolling India but just curious with current Indian form and not favoring home conditions is India going to lose their No.1 spot in ICC Test Rankings.

With 120 Ranking points currently India topping the chart while NZ placed themselves at No.4 with 105 points.

How does Raking look alike if India loses the Test series?

they will smash England at home 5 0 and eke out a draw vs australia if they play to their potential.

 

[tyron_woodley]

England will have to face the wrath of the GOAT flat track bullies.

 

[Thomaskutty]

How does a country that spent the last two months acclimatising in NZ play like that in a test match ? That was an awful performance...

 

[Kingpin786]

they will smash England at home 5 0 and eke out a draw vs australia if they play to their potential.

Lol broad alone is too hot to handle for ftb indian batters

 

[silentkiller187]

India is the best thing since sliced bread, there batsmen are all ATG in the making already and c\n bat better then any other team on one leg, have you guys not been following this forum?

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol broad alone is too hot to handle for ftb indian batters

Series is in India where green track bullies Broad and Anderson usually go into a hiding.

 

[Mamoon]

No. They are the best home side by a mile and relatively more competitive away from home than other top sides.

They fully deserve the number 1 position.

 

[zain7077]

No. They are the best home side by a mile and relatively more competitive away from home than other top sides.

They fully deserve the number 1 position.

India will lose the number 1 position at the end of their tour of Australia.

 

[Mamoon]

India will lose the number 1 position at the end of their tour of Australia.

I hope your prayers are answered and you find mental peace. Must be tough to see India occupy the number 1 spot for 4 years and counting.

 

[Kingpin786]

I hope your prayers are answered and you find mental peace. Must be tough to see India occupy the number 1 spot for 4 years and counting.

Mamoon on fire

 

[Raja111]

India have only lost one match in the last one and half year! Others have lost more than 5 matches.
So there's no one good enough to dethrone india anytime soon!

 

[Junaids]

The World Test Championship has made the rankings irrelevant.

The only thing that counts is the World Test Championship Table.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think so. This team needs fresh legs in the bowling department. We had a run of nearly 4 years at the top , which is not going to be matched by any Asian team, Windies, SA , NZ or England in the near future. Only Australia can probably do that.

 

[Mesozoic]

The World Test Championship has made the rankings irrelevant.

The only thing that counts is the World Test Championship Table.

This.

I don't give a damn about our no.1 ranking if we choke as usual again when it matters the most cometh the final at Lords.

 

[tyron_woodley]

This.

I don't give a damn about our no.1 ranking if we choke as usual again when it matters the most cometh the final at Lords.

nah world number 1 ranking is what matters. Any team can win a one off fluke at lords despite losing the preceding series to that very same team.

World test championship is a stupid setup.

for example, India could win an away series in australia over a 4 match series and then proceed to lose a one off match in the final at lords. Makes no sense.

 

[Junaids]

nah world number 1 ranking is what matters. Any team can win a one off fluke at lords despite losing the preceding series to that very same team.

World test championship is a stupid setup.

for example, India could win an away series in australia over a 4 match series and then proceed to lose a one off match in the final at lords. Makes no sense.

Nobody even knows that the rankings are still published.

Do you know the FIFA rankings or the FIFA World Cup holder?

And this is very good for India: they are already practically into the World Test Championship Final and if they respect it properly and get there early enough they can win it, which would be by far the most glorious event in Indian cricket history.

 

[Rana]

Same old delusional people defending the same old team.

India being number 1 in a list of teams out of which 1 has not played them home or away for over a decade. After this performance how is it fair to judge that India would maul Pakistan home and away just because India has fared ok against Australia away and Pakistan has not?

 

[The lone Ranger]

Same old delusional people defending the same old team.

India being number 1 in a list of teams out of which 1 has not played them home or away for over a decade. After this performance how is it fair to judge that India would maul Pakistan home and away just because India has fared ok against Australia away and Pakistan has not?

Because Pakistan got mauled by a non-spin playing nation NZ and a weak srilankan side in their home conditions who never won against India in India.

It would make sense if Pakistan were ranked second or third or even fourth but they aren't!
so not playing them hardly matters.

 

[Junaids]

Because Pakistan got mauled by a non-spin playing nation NZ and a weak srilankan side in their home conditions who never won against India in India.

It would make sense if Pakistan were ranked second or third or even fourth but they aren't!
so not playing them hardly matters.

Pakistan is in 4th place, on 140 points just 6 points from going 3rd. If they beat Bangladesh they go up to 200 points, 54 points clear in 3rd place.

It’s fair to say that India’s points tally is inflated by avoiding playing one of the top four teams.

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistan is in 4th place, on 140 points just 6 points from going 3rd. If they beat Bangladesh they go up to 200 points, 54 points clear in 3rd place.

It’s fair to say that India’s points tally is inflated by avoiding playing one of the top four teams.

We'll see where Pakistan ends up on the table in July 2021. It's premature to think they're a top 4 team on the back of beating two hapless under prepared teams at home.

They're about to tour Eng and NZ. They can slide down rather alarmingly.

 

[Mamoon]

Same old delusional people defending the same old team.

India being number 1 in a list of teams out of which 1 has not played them home or away for over a decade. After this performance how is it fair to judge that India would maul Pakistan home and away just because India has fared ok against Australia away and Pakistan has not?

Because it is relative. Losing to New Zealand away has no bearing on how India would fare against Pakistan.


The problem for Pakistan is not just that it is a terribly mediocre team, but also the fact that its strengths are completely nullified against India. Pakistan’s tactics of winning Test matches simply does not work against India because they have the qualities to beat us at our own game.

That is why Pakistan is more likely to win an ODI series against the #1 ranked England rather than the #2 ranked India.

9/10 times, India would maul Pakistan in all formats because they are our worst nightmare at the moment. We saw it at the World Cup as well. Pakistan deployed the same tactics that helped them beat the eventual champions England and push Australia hard, but India completely demolished us.

Not playing Pakistan home or away has no bearing on India’s number 1 ranking. Beating Pakistan today is as easy for India as beating Sri Lanka.

 

[Junaids]

We'll see where Pakistan ends up on the table in July 2021. It's premature to think they're a top 4 team on the back of beating two hapless under prepared teams at home.

They're about to tour Eng and NZ. They can slide down rather alarmingly.

Pakistan’s last 2 tours of England:
2-2
1-1

India’s last 2 tours of England:
1-4
1-3

Pakistan’s last 3 tours of NZ
0-2 (lost the second Test by losing 9 wickets after Tea on Day 5 trying to level the series. Fools!)
1-0
1-1

India’s last 3 tours of NZ
0-1 (in progress)
0-1
1-0

 

[Mesozoic]

Pakistan’s last 2 tours of England:
2-2
1-1

India’s last 2 tours of England:
1-4
1-3

Pakistan’s last 3 tours of NZ
0-2 (lost the second Test by losing 9 wickets after Tea on Day 5 trying to level the series. Fools!)
1-0
1-1

India’s last 3 tours of NZ
0-1 (in progress)
0-1
1-0

How many of those who toured England last time are likely to play this time around ? And how many of those haven't regressed badly ?
Answer is only one. Babar Azam. Rest all are either inexperienced (Shaheen, Abid, Rizwan, Naseem etc) or have regressed badly (Azhar, Yasir, Abbas etc). Same with Nz.

No idea why you brought India into discussion.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Same old delusional people defending the same old team.

India being number 1 in a list of teams out of which 1 has not played them home or away for over a decade. After this performance how is it fair to judge that India would maul Pakistan home and away just because India has fared ok against Australia away and Pakistan has not?

Not fared ok compared to pakistan. pakistan were beyond trash vs auatralia. India dominated them.

 

[Junaids]

Not fared ok compared to pakistan. pakistan were beyond trash vs auatralia. India dominated them.

Pakistan has an incompetent Chief Selector and unqualified Head Coach, and played a full-strength Australia.

India dominated Finch and Handscomb and the Marshes.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Nobody even knows that the rankings are still published.

Do you know the FIFA rankings or the FIFA World Cup holder?

And this is very good for India: they are already practically into the World Test Championship Final and if they respect it properly and get there early enough they can win it, which would be by far the most glorious event in Indian cricket history.

Not really. I don't care about the final. I would take a series win vs australia or draw over a win in the final anyday.

Ranking is what matters. Like I said any fodder team can have one good day and win in the final. It's harder to domainte a test series playing both home and away. Tests should be structured differently.

Overall ranking is what defines greatness. The current setup isn't even fair. Each team is supposed to play home and away series. At the moment every team plays each other just once and the fixtures seem a bit arbitrary.

 

[Rana]

Because Pakistan got mauled by a non-spin playing nation NZ and a weak srilankan side in their home conditions who never won against India in India.

It would make sense if Pakistan were ranked second or third or even fourth but they aren't!
so not playing them hardly matters.

They lost to these teams straight after two of their main batsmen retired. I’m discounting losses as such during a rebuilding phase

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistan has an incompetent Chief Selector and unqualified Head Coach, and played a full-strength Australia.

India dominated Finch and Handscomb and the Marshes.

and their so called pace attack that destroyed Sri Lanka in the following series. That same team would butcher every team apart from india at home.

Like I said smith warner would make no difference. Australia lost the toss. You don't lose the toss to Virat's india. Game over.
Stats don't lie. Vice versa would be true if australia wins the toss.

Only difference being in India, India will still crush you regardless whether you win the toss or not. That's why they are number 1.

 

[Rana]

Because it is relative. Losing to New Zealand away has no bearing on how India would fare against Pakistan.


The problem for Pakistan is not just that it is a terribly mediocre team, but also the fact that its strengths are completely nullified against India. Pakistan’s tactics of winning Test matches simply does not work against India because they have the qualities to beat us at our own game.

That is why Pakistan is more likely to win an ODI series against the #1 ranked England rather than the #2 ranked India.

9/10 times, India would maul Pakistan in all formats because they are our worst nightmare at the moment. We saw it at the World Cup as well. Pakistan deployed the same tactics that helped them beat the eventual champions England and push Australia hard, but India completely demolished us.

Not playing Pakistan home or away has no bearing on India’s number 1 ranking. Beating Pakistan today is as easy for India as beating Sri Lanka.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] brother you don’t cease to stop with the fantasies.

A lot of what you speculate would make sense if the two sides actually locked horns and not just for one Test but for a series of at least three, and India demolishes Pakistan the way you say in 3 Test matches. I don’t think that it would be so easy if that were the case. This isn’t a 50 or 20 over phase where a team is going to be struggling to fight against a momentum for a short period, and then have to wait another year or so to see if they fare better against the opponent for another short period of 20-50 overs. This is Test match cricket, you can win 10 out of 15 sessions and still somehow not get a result or lose the game on day 5. This is the finest form of the game and to say that it is very easy to predict Pakistan’s weakness against India in all facets is highly naive. You can bet your house that Pakistan would not prepare batting paradises for the Indians in either the UAE or Pakistan for a 3rd Test match at least. It’s so obvious that no matter how strong they are, on a green deck against 4 slips these boys will give you chances.

 

[Rana]

Not fared ok compared to pakistan. pakistan were beyond trash vs auatralia. India dominated them.

If you want to celebrate that Australian domination then you should not have issues with Pakistanis celebrating their dominance of Zimbabwe C team

 

[Mesozoic]

If you want to celebrate that Australian domination then you should not have issues with Pakistanis celebrating their dominance of Zimbabwe C team

To each their own.

 

[tyron_woodley]

If you want to celebrate that Australian domination then you should not have issues with Pakistanis celebrating their dominance of Zimbabwe C team

the Australian team that lost to india would butcher pakistan and every other team. They destroyed Sri Lanka right after they lost to india. Sri Lanka then went on to beat south africa in south africa albeit a wekeaned team. The same weakened saffers that destroyed pakistan 3 0.

 

[Mesozoic]

the Australian team that lost to india would butcher pakistan and every other team. They destroyed Sri Lanka right after they lost to india. Sri Lanka then went on to beat south africa in south africa albeit a wekeaned team. The same weakened saffers that destroyed pakistan 3 0.

Let me rephrase this.

So, Indian pummeled a team that instead pummeled a team that was going to pummel a team that pummeled Pakistan only recently.

Well going by the logic some of the posters use here, India is clearly light years ahead of Pak as a test team. I mean like four leagues above.

 

[Usman Chadda]

the Australian team that lost to india would butcher pakistan and every other team. They destroyed Sri Lanka right after they lost to india. Sri Lanka then went on to beat south africa in south africa albeit a wekeaned team. The same weakened saffers that destroyed pakistan 3 0.

The Australian team that lost to India got bundled out for 122 on a flat wicket by Imran Khan snr. That Australian team?

 

[Mesozoic]

The Australian team that lost to India got bundled out for 122 on a flat wicket by Imran Khan snr. That Australian team?

Only 3 out of that practice game team played against India. Harris, Khawaja and Head if I remember correctly.

Try again.

 

[Kingpin786]

Only 3 out of that practice game team played against India. Harris, Khawaja and Head if I remember correctly.

Try again.

And what i remember usman khwaja caused india to loss odi series against austalia

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Same old delusional people defending the same old team.

India being number 1 in a list of teams out of which 1 has not played them home or away for over a decade. After this performance how is it fair to judge that India would maul Pakistan home and away just because India has fared ok against Australia away and Pakistan has not?

Lol. There may be legitimate reasons as to why India are not a great number 1 side but not playing Pakistan is certainly not one of them.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Lol. There may be legitimate reasons as to why India are not a great number 1 side but not playing Pakistan is certainly not one of them.

Unfortunately the delusions are incredible.

What we can say is we don't have a strong Pak or SL in this era which makes things easy for India.

But to say India didn't play THIS Pak team and hence don't deserve number 1 is just ignorance.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What's our FTP?

 

[Rudi hater]

I hope your prayers are answered and you find mental peace. Must be tough to see India occupy the number 1 spot for 4 years and counting.

Just as you get the MENTAL peace when Pakistan loses.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Only 3 out of that practice game team played against India. Harris, Khawaja and Head if I remember correctly.

Try again.

Head, Harris and Khawaja were the highest run-scorers for Australia against India in 2018.

I don't need to try, you should have got the gist of the point I was trying to make

 

[sweep_shot]

I think India will remain #1 for a while. Only Australia, England, and NZ can really challenge them in Test.

 

[Rudi hater]

These rankings are useless, even T20, ODIs and Test. Right now, Australia is the best side that perfoems both home and away with equal success rest are all far behind them.

 

[tyron_woodley]

And what i remember usman khwaja caused india to loss odi series against austalia

yes and then they lost this year when none of those players played. They had smith and warner instead.

 

[tyron_woodley]

The Australian team that lost to India got bundled out for 122 on a flat wicket by Imran Khan snr. That Australian team?

lol what?You faced cummins starc and hazelwood and lyon in practice game ? Btw it's called a practice game lol. No one takes it seriously.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Head, Harris and Khawaja were the highest run-scorers for Australia against India in 2018.

I don't need to try, you should have got the gist of the point I was trying to make

let me repeat what I said earlier. That very same team that india faced would beat anybody not named india at home. India were in peak form and well prepared for that series. That was a key factor.

India won't lose at home just because kohli and pujara don't play. Our ranji boys are More than good enough to annihilate even australia at home.

It happened in 2016 when india beat australia in the final test without kohli.

At home there are no excuses. if India's win in australia is discredited then so should australia's 2004 win in india.

 

[Kingpin786]

lol what?You faced cummins starc and hazelwood and lyon in practice game ? Btw it's called a practice game lol. No one takes it seriously.

We are talking about indian bowling attack not australian bowling attack

 

[Kingpin786]

yes and then they lost this year when none of those players played. They had smith and warner instead.

Their bowling struggled in india not their battimg this time arround

 

[Pakhs]

People here are missing the point only 3 teams are in contention for No.1 ranking in tests they are the BIG 3 (Ind - AUS - Eng) others either dont care or don't have the resources to mount a sustained challenge. The rest have to rely on golden generation or golden period to climb up the rankings example being the current NZ team who are threatening the BIG 3 right now in tests but they will come to their normal place soon.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Their bowling struggled in india not their battimg this time arround

yea and India struggled in n.z due to fatigue. Csnt shift goalposts like that. India actually have an excuse because they play a lot more games than any other high profile team.

 

[Saurav]

And what i remember usman khwaja caused india to loss odi series against austalia

India won the ODI series in Australia

 

[Slim]

That would be an epic humiliation for those indian fans who over hyped this team to the sky. An epic phainta. Wont be surprised if this happens for the home track bullies.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[Mamoon]

Just as you get the MENTAL peace when Pakistan loses.

We are 7th in Tests and 6th in ODIs.

Losing matches is all we do. We eat, sleep and drink defeats. If Pakistan losing matches gave me mental peace, I would be the most content person in the world. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I am actually disgusted by our perpetual mediocrity and rotten cricket culture, and that is what I don’t expect anything from our team and I don’t get carried away with false hopes.

 

[Mamoon]

That would be an epic humiliation for those indian fans who over hyped this team to the sky. An epic phainta. Wont be surprised if this happens for the home track bullies.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

What humiliation? No team can stay at the top forever. Humiliation is being ranked 7th with absolutely no hope of getting to the top in the near or distant future.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

You can call it fantasy to feel good about our joker team, but the truth is that we are not good enough to beat India in Test cricket. We can fluke an ODI or T20 against them once in a while, but it is much harder to win Tests because it is not decided by one or two moments.

If we play them on a flat pitch or a turner, we will do well to make them bat twice. On green-tops we can give them a scare, but ultimately, the gap between an elite side and a poor side will eventually rear its ugly head.

My point is that a number 1 ranked team does not have to beat a 7th ranked team to justify its number 1 position. If Pakistan were actually a top 3 side in the last 2-3 years, this argument would have had credibility. Now it does not.

However, we all deserve to be happy. Some of our wounded fans can make up their own rankings and denounce India’s number 1 position because they have not bothered to play the losers who have represented Pakistan in Test cricket over the last 2-3 years, the losers that have taken Pakistan to number 7.

 

[Ab Fan]

What will be India's ranking if we lose 0-2 to Australia this year at end?

 

[Extra_Cover]

Lets face it, India is a very good test side at the moment. We are living in an era where the test playing nations are quite evenly matched. There is no front runner or clear leader in test nations like we had in yesteryear. On its day India can defeat Aus or SAF in away conditions but also on their day AUS or Eng would defeat India in India.

Having said the above I genuinely feel this is also an era of lowest quality in test cricket. The bowling is worse hit in this era where guys like Jadeja has inflated their numbers and average in 20s. Not nitpicking on Jadeja but a guy like him would not even be on reserves list in 90s where I feel batters quality was much higher than what we see today.

Coming back to topic, India is a very good test side and on its day perhaps best test side going around but on others not so. India is no certainly Australia of 2000s or Windies of 70-80s. They are just another side going through highs and lows of test cricket.

 

[Junaids]

Lol. There may be legitimate reasons as to why India are not a great number 1 side but not playing Pakistan is certainly not one of them.

I’m not totally sure that I agree.

Even when Australia or England are weak, The Ashes remains a true test of character and ability to withstand both opposition and crowd pressure.

The same is true of India and Pakistan: consider how on Earth it was that in 2005 at Bangalore India managed to lose to Yasir Hameed, Mohammad Sami and Arshad Khan!

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

You can call it fantasy to feel good about our joker team, but the truth is that we are not good enough to beat India in Test cricket. We can fluke an ODI or T20 against them once in a while, but it is much harder to win Tests because it is not decided by one or two moments.

If we play them on a flat pitch or a turner, we will do well to make them bat twice. On green-tops we can give them a scare, but ultimately, the gap between an elite side and a poor side will eventually rear its ugly head.

My point is that a number 1 ranked team does not have to beat a 7th ranked team to justify its number 1 position. If Pakistan were actually a top 3 side in the last 2-3 years, this argument would have had credibility. Now it does not.

However, we all deserve to be happy. Some of our wounded fans can make up their own rankings and denounce India’s number 1 position because they have not bothered to play the losers who have represented Pakistan in Test cricket over the last 2-3 years, the losers that have taken Pakistan to number 7.

And they will bowl us out twice on a flat pitch?

Pakistan has plenty of decent players who can turn up and rack up runs against a good attack on a flat pitch. India will kill us on a rank turner because Pakistan’s spinners are quite poor at the moment.

On a green mamba..it’s all about who will hold on to their catches and that’s up to Pakistan to not have an off day. Pakistan has good bowlers for green decks and so does India of course. As I said, 3 Test matches and then we will have a clear picture

 

[Junaids]

We are 7th in Tests and 6th in ODIs.

Losing matches is all we do. .

You are cherry-picking bad news.

Pakistan is on the verge of going third in the World Test Championship.

We decry their victories over Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, yet Sri Lanka actually won an away series in South Africa last year.

I don’t think that Misbah picks the strongest team or even considers succession management, but in terms of Test cricket Pakistan is ahead of New Zealand and South Africa and about to overtake England, and that’s not a bad place to be.

That the thing about Pakistan. The talent base almost always is superior to England and New Zealand for simple demographic reasons, and the pace attack is superior to India’s 80% of the time, albeit not recently.

It doesn’t take much professionalism for Pakistan to be a competitive team among the world’s top five.

 

[Mamoon]

You are cherry-picking bad news.

Pakistan is on the verge of going third in the World Test Championship.

We decry their victories over Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, yet Sri Lanka actually won an away series in South Africa last year.

I don’t think that Misbah picks the strongest team or even considers succession management, but in terms of Test cricket Pakistan is ahead of New Zealand and South Africa and about to overtake England, and that’s not a bad place to be.

That the thing about Pakistan. The talent base almost always is superior to England and New Zealand for simple demographic reasons, and the pace attack is superior to India’s 80% of the time, albeit not recently.

It doesn’t take much professionalism for Pakistan to be a competitive team among the world’s top five.

I have to admit that I admire your resolve to cherry-pick “good news” in the debris of Pakistan cricket, which is simply borne by your refusal to accept that Pakistan is now a small team.

If we were to believe you over the last 5-6, Pakistan should have won in Australia in 2016-17 and 2019-20, South Africa in 2018-19 and New Zealand in 2016-17.

Unfortunately, in spite of your numerous threads that chalked up the framework of Pakistan’s wins, we lost 10 out of 10 Tests.

And no, it wasn’t simply down to Misbah’s captaincy and coaching and poor selections. It really wish Pakistan’s problems were that simple.

Unfortunately, you have to dig a lot deeper than that to understand why a country with the second biggest cricket population is the poster boy of mediocrity in 2020.

That is why I am here with some more bad news. Pakistan will not end up third in the WTC table. India, Australia and England will be the top 3 sides.

However, Pakistan may have the slightest outside chance of finishing 4th or 5th if New Zealand finds itself in a rut and if South Africa does not sort itself out.

The great thing about the WTC points table is that it runs over a period of 2 years. This means that results that can be best described as anomalies will be absorbed. As a result, at the end of the 2 year period, you would find that the WTC points table will be almost identical to the rankings table.

You won’t have teams like Pakistan donning their cornered tigers hats, and going on a run of 2-3 wins at the business end and finishing in the top 3. The WTC demands consistency and we are not good enough for that.

Realistically, Pakistan should finish 6th in the points table, because it will be an accurate estimation of where we find ourselves today. Only the 6th best Test side in the world.

Pakistan is definitely not a better side than England and are not about to overtake them. Pakistan couldn’t overtake England when there were struggling in 2017-2019, and it will not overtake them now that England have improved the architecture of their Test team.

Our 2010-2018 days of being their bogey team is also over. We should brace ourselves for a series defeat in the summer.

We are clearly not ahead of New Zealand and South Africa in Tests. New Zealand are more consistent in terms of producing results and they have a better chance of beating us (again) at home than we do of winning in New Zealand.

Similarly, South Africa are in all sorts of problems at the moment, but they are more likely to produce a positive result in Pakistan than we do in South Africa.

 

[Mamoon]

And they will bowl us out twice on a flat pitch?

Pakistan has plenty of decent players who can turn up and rack up runs against a good attack on a flat pitch. India will kill us on a rank turner because Pakistan’s spinners are quite poor at the moment.

On a green mamba..it’s all about who will hold on to their catches and that’s up to Pakistan to not have an off day. Pakistan has good bowlers for green decks and so does India of course. As I said, 3 Test matches and then we will have a clear picture

Yes they will. India have the best batting and best bowling units for flat pitches. That is why they pump teams in India who cannot win even after batting first and scoring 400+, while India manages to put together scores of 600+ almost every time.

Pakistan does not have the batting to score 600+ against Indian bowling and neither does it have the bowling to restrict them to 300. Hence, we don’t stand a chance.

The picture is already clear if you wish to see. India is miles above Pakistan and does not have to beat our 7th ranked side to justify its number 1 ranking.

 

[Mamoon]

I’m not totally sure that I agree.

Even when Australia or England are weak, The Ashes remains a true test of character and ability to withstand both opposition and crowd pressure.

The same is true of India and Pakistan: consider how on Earth it was that in 2005 at Bangalore India managed to lose to Yasir Hameed, Mohammad Sami and Arshad Khan!

The gap between the two sides in 2005 was negligible compared to the massive gulf in class today.

Our middle-order of 2005 - Younis (who scored 267 and 84), Yousuf and Inzamam was every bit as good as the Indian middle-order, especially because Tendulkar was going through a lean patch in the mid 2000s.

The 2004-2005 Kamran was arguably the most exciting and talented young WK batsman in the world, and miles ahead of his contemporary in that series (Karthik).

Pakistan had Arshad Khan and Sami in the attack, but India’s opening bowler was Balaji.

Today, apart from Babar replacing Rahane, every single Pakistani player is inferior to his Indian counterpart. However, Shaheen is very good and could be better than Shami or Ishant in a couple of years.

 

[MMHS]

I’m not totally sure that I agree.

Even when Australia or England are weak, The Ashes remains a true test of character and ability to withstand both opposition and crowd pressure.

The same is true of India and Pakistan: consider how on Earth it was that in 2005 at Bangalore India managed to lose to Yasir Hameed, Mohammad Sami and Arshad Khan!

It’s a bit off topic for this thread, but that example of 2005 is mind blowing - how could you?

First, Yasir Hamid, Mo Sami will walk into this PAK side in flying colours. And, Arshad will be the premier bowler (not spinner, bowler of a 5 men attack) in Asia. Yes, he would have batted at 9, but you have no clue how good a finger spinner he was.

But, the main reason PAK won that Bangalore Test was that, that PAK side had the best middle order in world, particularly in Asian condition and two of the three supreme batsmen of that team scored 184 & 267 in the first innings. In that Test, dismisses once each YK & IuH scored 566 runs (267 + 84*; 184 + 31*), and they scored those runs at ~65 SR (around 4 RR). Current PAK batting will achieve something if entire lot can post 566 for 20 wickets + extras against India.

Or other way, I am saying if two of PAK batsmen scores 566 at 65 SR in me Test, indeed current bowling attack is also capable of winning a Test against India, because I do believe other 9 can add at least 134 over two innings - that's 700+ runs at 3.5 RR leaving around 250 overs to get 20 wickets bowling last.

I am really wondering to know that for someone like you is surprised that how a PAK side with prime YK, Inzi, MoYo, Kamran, ARazzak, Afridi, Arshad & Danish could win a Test at Bangalore after winning toss!!!!!!

Regarding Ashes - no, it wasn't character at all, not from England. For 20 years between 1989 to 2007, what I have seen is unconditional surrender by English team in most cases whenever they were put under pressure. PAK had a upper hand over India for around 35 years not because of character, rather simply because the team that time was superior in skills than India - some of the best ever batsmen against spin to counter Indian spin threat, some of the best ever pacers on subcontinent conditions to keep pressure on Indian batting and some genuinely quality finger spinners to take advantage of rank turners, something we saw at Bangalore twice.

PCT should be thankful to GoI that Narendra Modi’s BCCI have blocked IND-PAK Bilaterals, otherwise a 5 Test series every alternate years in IND & then UAE/PAK - things would have been ugly, you know.

India is No. 1 just because they are embarrassingly superior at home and every team these days are rabbit away - ENG, AUS list Test matches at Dhaka, which should tell a lot about current quality of Test teams. I can say that Kohli’s India is a poor No. 1 team compared to Ian/Greg’s Australia, Lloyd/Viv’s WIN, Imran’s PAK, Waugh/Ponting’s AUS, Smith’s SAF... Probably Dravid/MS’s India as well, but they are definitely deserving No. 1 and I don't see it changing in near future - next ENG, AUS, NZ series are at home, while in next 3/4 years, India will hammer SAF in SAF; rest don't have any chance what so ever - Home or Away.

 

[latecut]

The OP is under the naive impression that if number one ranked team loses to number four ranked team then the two teams exchange their ranking. It is not like that.

If India, the number one ranked team loses to New Zealand, they will lose rating points but they will continue to remain number one, though its gap from the number 2 team will reduce. That is all.