Is India's Strategy of playing average bowlers who can bat, the correct strategy?

[cricketjoshila]

Rahul Dravid has started this policy of playing average bowlers in the team because they can bat a bit. Therefore relegating a proper bowler, someone who is good, to the bench.

Playing the likes of Thakur Axar Ashwin in white ball cricket. Playing Thakur in Tests. Selecting Deepak Chahar. All these are part of that strategy only.

You have two ARs in Hardik and Jadeja why do you need bits and pieces players?

This strategy may come off once a while when the tail wags, but i feel this is a high risk strategy and should be abandoned.

 

[Ab Fan]

It depends on format. Some bowlers have skills for Test cricket, some have skills for ODIs and some specifically for T20s. If you play them in different formats, they may go for plenty. But that is what it is. Also, if someone is injured then you have to play the next option in reckoning.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It depends on format. Some bowlers have skills for Test cricket, some have skills for ODIs and some specifically for T20s. If you play them in different formats, they may go for plenty. But that is what it is. Also, if someone is injured then you have to play the next option in reckoning.

What skills do the likes of Axar or Thakur have in white ball?

Axar is India's fourth choice spinner in tests. What is his utility in LoIs?

Is Ashwin a good enough T20 bowler to keep Kuldeep out of the T20 team? Or its just his mythical batting ability in LoIs thats keeping Ashwin in the team in T20s.

Does Thakur really deserve to be a all format player for India? His bowling is avg mostly with the odd good performance in test matches. His bowling in LoIs is below avg.

Again he seems to be in the team because he played 1 or 2 good innings with the bat in his career.

Now another such player Chahar is coming.

These Axars Chahars Thakurs were fringe players, now suddenly at 29-30 years of age they are becoming regulars as if its a retirement plan.

They are keeping genuinely good specialists out of the team.

 

[Ab Fan]

What skills do the likes of Axar or Thakur have in white ball?

Axar is India's fourth choice spinner in tests. What is his utility in LoIs?

Is Ashwin a good enough T20 bowler to keep Kuldeep out of the T20 team? Or its just his mythical batting ability in LoIs thats keeping Ashwin in the team in T20s.

Does Thakur really deserve to be a all format player for India? His bowling is avg mostly with the odd good performance in test matches. His bowling in LoIs is below avg.

Again he seems to be in the team because he played 1 or 2 good innings with the bat in his career.

Now another such player Chahar is coming.

These Axars Chahars Thakurs were fringe players, now suddenly at 29-30 years of age they are becoming regulars as if its a retirement plan.

They are keeping genuinely good specialists out of the team.

Thakur is not playing in T20s. In ODIs, he got the chance when the main bowlers - Bumrah and Shami were rested. In an attack of Siraj, Prasidh,Shardul is a fine option to have as he can bat well and be a bowling A/R at 8. Axar is a backup of Jadeja and he did won one game with bat alone. Sundar and Kuldeep both were injured so Axar got his chance.

Again, Ashwin is getting chances because Kuldeep, Sundar were injured. Jadeja himself is an average T20 option, he always was average in LOIs.

Deepak Chahar is not a bad option in LOIs. If there is some swing and movement early on, he is extremely good and can pick bunch of wickets in a few overs spell only. His batting is pretty good too.

Btw, which all specialists are being tested? Prasidh and Siraj played in ODIs, didn't they? Arshdeep is getting games too. Avesh is a specialist and he is mediocre. Umran is all pace but no skill and no control. There are just not many options in T20s.

 

[sweep_shot]

I do not think this is a good strategy.

I think 4 proper bowlers is a good strategy. If 7 batsmen can't do the job, there is a problem.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Thakur is not playing in T20s. In ODIs, he got the chance when the main bowlers - Bumrah and Shami were rested. In an attack of Siraj, Prasidh,Shardul is a fine option to have as he can bat well and be a bowling A/R at 8. Axar is a backup of Jadeja and he did won one game with bat alone. Sundar and Kuldeep both were injured so Axar got his chance.

Again, Ashwin is getting chances because Kuldeep, Sundar were injured. Jadeja himself is an average T20 option, he always was average in LOIs.

Deepak Chahar is not a bad option in LOIs. If there is some swing and movement early on, he is extremely good and can pick bunch of wickets in a few overs spell only. His batting is pretty good too.

Btw, which all specialists are being tested? Prasidh and Siraj played in ODIs, didn't they? Arshdeep is getting games too. Avesh is a specialist and he is mediocre. Umran is all pace but no skill and no control. There are just not many options in T20s.

Thakur isnt good enough for any team. His only utility is on green pitches or swinging conditions as a 4th choice test pacer. That's it.

Why Thakur? Players like Mohsin Khan are sitting at home. While this guy is playing. He doesn't bat well.

Axar should not be playing, his bowling in LoIs is down right average. Rahul Tewatia is a much better option. And if we are playing 2 ARs like Hardik and Jadeja, Hooda is a better option for replacing Jadeja. But they wont play.

Again Chahar is not an option. How many swing bowlers you need? BK, Arshdeep. How many?

Again the same bits and pieces argument of he can bat a bit. So? Are we going to replace a genuinely good bowler by a avg bowler who can bat?

Rahul Dravid is keeping genuinely good specialists out and playing bits and pieces players. And ofcourse the selection committee is very compliant to the wishes of a cricketing giant.

 

[Champ_Pal]

These days all bowlers are expected to bat unless the bowler is a Bumrah or Boult or Shaheen level.

Playing bowlers like Avesh, Prasidh, Chahal, Bishnoi is a huge lottery. If they fail at bowling, they become a huge liability.

 

[Ab Fan]

Thakur isnt good enough for any team. His only utility is on green pitches or swinging conditions as a 4th choice test pacer. That's it.

Why Thakur? Players like Mohsin Khan are sitting at home. While this guy is playing. He doesn't bat well.

Axar should not be playing, his bowling in LoIs is down right average. Rahul Tewatia is a much better option. And if we are playing 2 ARs like Hardik and Jadeja, Hooda is a better option for replacing Jadeja. But they wont play.

Again Chahar is not an option. How many swing bowlers you need? BK, Arshdeep. How many?

Again the same bits and pieces argument of he can bat a bit. So? Are we going to replace a genuinely good bowler by a avg bowler who can bat?

Rahul Dravid is keeping genuinely good specialists out and playing bits and pieces players. And ofcourse the selection committee is very compliant to the wishes of a cricketing giant.

Again, all the names you quoted are backup options. How many of these guys played today's game? Thakur, Axar and Chahar none of them played today's game.

D Chahar will only play when Bhuvi is injured or rested and Bhuvi won't be rested as he only play T20s.

Thakur has not been picked for T20s in recent times. I agree he is not good for this format. Axar was only picked because Jadeja, Kuldeep and Sundar were injured. Jadeja gets free run because he goes off radar and fans like to target the superior all rounder in Indian LOI team, Pandya more

Have you not seen some of your specialists how they play, the bubble has burst for them too. Avesh, a specialist bowler has been bowling pies in all the chances he got. Prasidh is again not a T20 bowler and neither was Shami. Mohsin is still unproven, he had success only for half of IPL.

<B>In T20s, the best options are Bumrah, Bhuvi, Arshdeep, Harshal( yet to be proven overseas) and Deepak Chahar</B>. The likes of Avesh, Prasidh are not good enough in this format.

In ODIs vs England, we did picked the specialists. Bumrah , Shami, Prasidh/Siraj, Yuzi played. That's specialist attack. But in T20s, Shami and Prasidh are not good enough.

 

[hitthestump]

Do Indians, put commas, in random places when making thread titles?

 

[Major]

For such a strategy you need the right captain aswell. Dhoni used to do this and he was successful. He knew when and how to use the bowlers. They won a world t20 because of Joginder Sharma, a champions trophy because of Jadeja.

But not every captain can get the best out of such players. Plus, Dhoni didnt have much options in the bowling department, he was limited so he would use such bowlers.

India now has many good options, especially in pace. They should be opting for 1 allrounder whole the rest 4 bowlers should be selected based on their bowling ability alone.

If 7 batsmen cant do the job, why will the bits and pieces cricketers. I dont get why India is giving extended runs to the likes of Surya Kumar or others when you know they are gonna fail

 

[cricketjoshila]

For such a strategy you need the right captain aswell. Dhoni used to do this and he was successful. He knew when and how to use the bowlers. They won a world t20 because of Joginder Sharma, a champions trophy because of Jadeja.

But not every captain can get the best out of such players. Plus, Dhoni didnt have much options in the bowling department, he was limited so he would use such bowlers.

India now has many good options, especially in pace. They should be opting for 1 allrounder whole the rest 4 bowlers should be selected based on their bowling ability alone.

If 7 batsmen cant do the job, why will the bits and pieces cricketers. I dont get why India is giving extended runs to the likes of Surya Kumar or others when you know they are gonna fail

Surya Kumar is a very good white ball player but he isn't an opener.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What skills do the likes of Axar or Thakur have in white ball?

Axar is India's fourth choice spinner in tests. What is his utility in LoIs?

Is Ashwin a good enough T20 bowler to keep Kuldeep out of the T20 team? Or its just his mythical batting ability in LoIs thats keeping Ashwin in the team in T20s.

Does Thakur really deserve to be a all format player for India? His bowling is avg mostly with the odd good performance in test matches. His bowling in LoIs is below avg.

Again he seems to be in the team because he played 1 or 2 good innings with the bat in his career.

Now another such player Chahar is coming.

These Axars Chahars Thakurs were fringe players, now suddenly at 29-30 years of age they are becoming regulars as if its a retirement plan.

They are keeping genuinely good specialists out of the team.

Axar was the reason we won the last ODI against the West Indies. I think all this talk about "white ball" is misleading.

We need to separate ODI's from T20's at this point and recognize that some are purely ODI cricketers and others have purely T20 skillsets etc .

Axar has shown that he deserves chances in ODIs and should be competing with Jadeja for his spot in the ODI team.

Agree about Chahar and Thakur in that Chahar should only play if Bhuvi is injured and Thakur is not an all format bowler.

 

[daytrader]

Rohit adamant attacking approach is best for India

ndia captain Rohit Sharma wants his team to continue playing more attacking cricket during the lead-up to this year’s T20 World Cup and is happy to wear the occasional loss due to the more aggressive style.

India batters failed meekly when they fell to just their fourth T20I loss of the year on Monday when defeated by an Obed McCoy-inspired West Indies by five wickets in St Kitts.

Rohit was one of McCoy's six victims in the match, with the West Indies pacer running through India's star-studded batting line-up to help bowl out the tourists in the final over for just 138.

But Rohit said there is no need to panic and the odd disappointing result will continue to fall India's way while they continue to attack more with the bat.

"Really, really happy with how the bowlers bowled, but of course, there are certain things in our batting that we really need to look at," Rohit said after the loss.

"But again, I will say that as well: we will continue to bat in that kind of fashion because we want to achieve something. Unless you try and do it, you will not achieve.

"So, I think, one odd result here and there, we shouldn't panic. It's just about giving those guys that clarity, and after one loss we are not trying to change anything. We will keep the same intensity and same intent with the bat."

While their total was below par according to Rohit, India came within a whisker of defending the meagre score as West Indies still required 10 runs from the final over to claim the victory and level the series.

The India skipper decided to hand inexperienced pacer Avesh Khan the chance to be the hero when he handed the 25-year-old the ball for the final over, but the decision backfired when the right-armer overstepped on the first ball to give the home side a free hit and then conceded 10 runs from the ensuing two deliveries.

Rohit admitted he could have easily turned to experienced quick Bhuvneshwar Kumar for the final over, but said he will continue to provide fringe players the chance to show their wares during the lead-up to the T20 World Cup in Australia later this year.

"It's all about giving the opportunity to these guys," Rohit noted.

"We know what Bhuvneshwar Kumar brings to the table for us. He's been doing it for so many years, but if you don't give opportunity to guys like Avesh, Arshdeep (Singh) and all those guys, you will never find out what it is like to bowl in the death overs for India. They've been doing it well for the IPL franchises, but this is a different ball game. These are the games you try and see how they respond to those (pressure) situations, but yeah it's just one game.

"I don't think we need to...or those guys need to panic about stuff. They have the skills, they have the talent; it's just about backing it and giving them the right opportunity."

ICC

 

[cricketjoshila]

Axar was the reason we won the last ODI against the West Indies. I think all this talk about "white ball" is misleading.

We need to separate ODI's from T20's at this point and recognize that some are purely ODI cricketers and others have purely T20 skillsets etc .

Axar has shown that he deserves chances in ODIs and should be competing with Jadeja for his spot in the ODI team.

Agree about Chahar and Thakur in that Chahar should only play if Bhuvi is injured and Thakur is not an all format bowler.

Dont pick and choose one match. His batting avg is 12 and 19 in ODIs and T20Is. Thats how good he is.Axar that is. He is no competition to Jadeja. If only they gave Tewatia a chance.

Bhuvneshwar Kumar's replacement is Arshdeep.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Except for that England test, India have been winning more than losing in Dravid's tenure.

That too with a largely new team and their two formerly best players, in fact world's best, Kohli & Rohit not performing.

Therefore it is hard to say if the new policy is a fail until it has gone through sterner tests.

 

[Titan24]

Thakur has been considered for that and India is looking at Chahar to improve his batting as well for that no 8 position and thats only because Hardik is not bowling full quota of overs especially in ODIs, might not want to be a regular 10 over bowlers going forward as well if fitness is a concern so better to have plan-b in place.

Axar played when Jadeja was injured/rested.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Dont pick and choose one match. His batting avg is 12 and 19 in ODIs and T20Is. Thats how good he is.Axar that is. He is no competition to Jadeja. If only they gave Tewatia a chance.

Bhuvneshwar Kumar's replacement is Arshdeep.

Its not about batting average alone . Axar has earned a few chances considering the hitting ability and looks like he has improved. I hope Deepak Hooda is used as a batsman regularly at 5 and develops as a solid 6th bowler.

In that case, we can play 5 batsmen(including Hooda) + Pant + one of Pandya/Jadeja/Axar. That would give the team more balance in the batting. Not a fan of playing both Pandya and Axar/Jadeja.


Anyway, I'm happy with the current management under Dravid . They are giving chances to many players and have a better process as compared to Shastri/Kohli for white ball cricket

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its not about batting average alone . Axar has earned a few chances considering the hitting ability and looks like he has improved. I hope Deepak Hooda is used as a batsman regularly at 5 and develops as a solid 6th bowler.

In that case, we can play 5 batsmen(including Hooda) + Pant + one of Pandya/Jadeja/Axar. That would give the team more balance in the batting. Not a fan of playing both Pandya and Axar/Jadeja.


Anyway, I'm happy with the current management under Dravid . They are giving chances to many players and have a better process as compared to Shastri/Kohli for white ball cricket

What hitting ability bhai? He doesn't have consistent performances to back his selection at no.7 . Check his IPL avgs.

TBH i agree that there is no place for 2ARs.

 

[shaz619]

It seems like he is employing a strategy from his playing days

 

[pratiktc]

It is not a strategy but rather trying to make do with what is there and develop reasonable backups for squad.

In today's T20 cricket it is essential that no.8 batter has some six hitting power for teams to try and max out scoring ability. Can't afford it 4 jokers from 8-11 even if they are 4 best bowlers in squad.

India's no.1 pacer Bumrah and no.1 spinner Chahal are both useless with bat in T20 cricket. So remaining two support seamers need to have atleast 1 who can bat and give 4 solid overs.

Unfortunately pure bowlers who can swing bat are in short supply in India. The few options are

Shardul, Harshal, Bhuvi, Chahar.
of these Bhuvi has no striking power and Harshal hasn't shown any striking ability at intl level. Only Shardul atleast in ODI format has some proven skill. Chahar seems best of them and the term replacement for Bhuvi but is out injured at the moment. Harshal seems to be on recent bowling form leading 3rd seamer candidate anyway so he is in mix and Shardul is being given chances as a backup option in case of injuries etc.. Likely that 2 out of these 4 will be in final squad of 15.

The other seamer options to support Bumrah are Shami, Siraj, Arshdeep, Avesh.

Of these Shami is equal to tape ball lapeda and Siraj, Prasidh, Arshdeep are proper bunnies. Avesh atleast showed some raw capability so far. Again only 2 of these 4 will go to WC in squad and rest are being trialled.

Axar is a high quality proven in IPL finisher and now also has struck at intl level with bat. He is a definite squad player and may even displace Jadeja from XI since currently he is the better T20 bowler.

Ashwin is being trialled as an offspin option since Rohit likes having a squad offspinner to matchup against teams with lefties - same way as he used Jayant Yadav in IPL. He is in mix because Sundar got injured and took himself out of reckoning. His batting is useless in T20 and it won't place him ahead of any contenders. Rest assured Kuldeep will get similiar chances in leadup to WC to take specialist spinner berth in final squad.

 

[Ab Fan]

I liked today's tactic by Dravid and Rohit.

Jadeja out, Hooda in.

Now, think of this change in India's best XI:-

5.Pandya/Hooda( off spinner)
6. Hooda/Pandya
7. DK
8. Bhuvi
9. Arshdeep/Harshal
10. Bumrah
11. Yuzi( a leg spinner)

So, with this attack, we can have two different types of spin bowlers. Yuzi as main spinner and wicket taker while Hooda specifically for lefties. Hooda also can bat anywhere from #3 to #6 and can be used as floater with bat.

If we loose a couple of early wicket with the new bowl doing a lot, we can send Hooda ahead to anchor the ship and keep SKY, Pandya and DK for later on power hitting.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I liked today's tactic by Dravid and Rohit.

Jadeja out, Hooda in.

Now, think of this change in India's best XI:-

5.Pandya/Hooda( off spinner)
6. Hooda/Pandya
7. DK
8. Bhuvi
9. Arshdeep/Harshal
10. Bumrah
11. Yuzi( a leg spinner)

So, with this attack, we can have two different types of spin bowlers. Yuzi as main spinner and wicket taker while Hooda specifically for lefties. Hooda also can bat anywhere from #3 to #6 and can be used as floater with bat.

If we loose a couple of early wicket with the new bowl doing a lot, we can send Hooda ahead to anchor the ship and keep SKY, Pandya and DK for later on power hitting.

Ashwin should have been out. He really has no role in LoIs. Its sad that he is keeping out Kuldeep and Jadeja.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin should have been out. He really has no role in LoIs. Its sad that he is keeping out Kuldeep and Jadeja.

Agreed no point bringing Ashwin back. Should have used Kuldeep this series. I would want Kuldeep in the squad for Australia. Yuzi, Kuldeep, Jadeja( because other options are even worse than him) and Hooda these four in the squad from spin point of view.