Is it time for Grant Flower to leave?

[Savak]

Firing Flower won't change much. Asad and Azhar are done and guys like Babar, Haris and Shan have been doing well.

He can't teach people at this level to bat. The issues are deep and Wasim Khan needs to transform our domestic structure to get us back at the top.

At the moment we are SL, Zim level.

No need to keep him unnecessarily if he can't change much

 

[Theo_14]

See this is the issue.

You all think Grant Flower is the issue when the issue is far deeper than that.

1. Grassroot - Domestic cricket.
2. Lack of pre warm up games in South Africa.
3. Personal issue - Mentality.

Pakistan continues to decline and fall behind teams for these exact reasons.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Like I said last month, it may be time to change this up with the batting coach and bring in someone new.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

No need to keep him unnecessarily if he can't change much

I don't know what his exact role is. Maybe he assists Mickey in formulating batting plans. So it could be Mickey vouching for him. But if the PCB feels he doesn't add much then get rid of him, but do not expect sudden wonders.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

See this is the issue.

You all think Grant Flower is the issue when the issue is far deeper than that.

1. Grassroot - Domestic cricket.
2. Lack of pre warm up games in South Africa.
3. Personal issue - Mentality.

Pakistan continues to decline and fall behind teams for these exact reasons.

Exactly. That's why Wasim Khan is the last hope for these issues. Only he has the power to make things better so that we can experience the fruits of it in five years time.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Yep. Rizwan and Shan have improved in domestic / working with their personal coaches.

National team players have only regressed.

 

[mak36]

How has he not fixed Imam's issue with his front leg?

 

[MenInG]

See this is the issue.

You all think Grant Flower is the issue when the issue is far deeper than that.

1. Grassroot - Domestic cricket.
2. Lack of pre warm up games in South Africa.
3. Personal issue - Mentality.

Pakistan continues to decline and fall behind teams for these exact reasons.

but we want overnight solutions.

 

[Khalistani99]

Maybe, get better coaches for under 19 teams. It's hard to change technique afterwards

 

[Hasan123]

Yes he should be sacked. After 5 years , hardly any batters have improved.

 

[Mirpur express]

Need to freshen things up he should go along with Azhar ,Shafiq & Imam

 

[Justcrazy]

Grant Flower has to go , no doubt , Pakistan need to bring in someone like Andy Flower as director , and work from the lower level . Make a system that can bring in new players and polish them , make them ready for International cricket

 

[babajee]

Why persist with someone who has shown absolutely no results?

 

[MMHS]

What I read here is that Grant is extremely committed, hard working and he dedicates lots to time to players individually & most players do appreciate his efforts. But, we have seen PAK players are often too predictable, makes similar mistakes and very limited - their scoring areas can be blocked. From which, it gives me an idea that may be Grant is very good st fundamentals of batting, which is very good for net session & younger players, but may not be enough at highest level when batsmen probably need more than basics.

I was reading Shan Mashood’s article (on his latest coach & his methods) - may be international batsmen need similar support which customised for individual issues. May be instead of sacking him, his best utilities can be batting coach at NCA to work with U19 boys and purify their batting techniques from fundamentals. Might not he his shortcomings alone, but true that for 5 years almost, it’s not working for PAK team, and PCB should look elsewhere.

One glaring recent issue for PAK batting is complete surrender against short ball, which is a new experience for me as well. I have seen PAK players struggling against lateral movement, but never against pace or bounce - in that regard, my suggestion will be to appoint next batting coach from Australia; Jaime Siddons, Dean Jones, Damien Martyn or may be Greg Shippard (though he must be 60+ now).

 

[Savak]

What I read here is that Grant is extremely committed, hard working and he dedicates lots to time to players individually & most players do appreciate his efforts. But, we have seen PAK players are often too predictable, makes similar mistakes and very limited - their scoring areas can be blocked. From which, it gives me an idea that may be Grant is very good st fundamentals of batting, which is very good for net session & younger players, but may not be enough at highest level when batsmen probably need more than basics.

I was reading Shan Mashood’s article (on his latest coach & his methods) - may be international batsmen need similar support which customised for individual issues. May be instead of sacking him, his best utilities can be batting coach at NCA to work with U19 boys and purify their batting techniques from fundamentals. Might not he his shortcomings alone, but true that for 5 years almost, it’s not working for PAK team, and PCB should look elsewhere.

One glaring recent issue for PAK batting is complete surrender against short ball, which is a new experience for me as well. I have seen PAK players struggling against lateral movement, but never against pace or bounce - in that regard, my suggestion will be to appoint next batting coach from Australia; Jaime Siddons, Dean Jones, Damien Martyn or may be Greg Shippard (though he must be 60+ now).

I am not convinced by Grant Flower being so hard working or committed. If he had a semblance of integrity and self respect, he would have resigned a long time back given the numerous batting failures under his watch and the numerous batsmen that have come and gone during his tenure as well.

Also Ramiz mentioned that he had requested Grant Flower to have the players practice atleast one hour in the nets every day against a wet tennis ball to prepare themselves for the conditions in SA but Flower was least bothered and instead became defensive requesting for video proof that any batsman is weak against the short ball

 

[goran]

I don't understand why some posters are supporting Grant Flower here. The batting has failed miserably under him and yet he has been given a free ride. There might be other problems as well with our batsmen but there is no harm in trying someone else as batting coach as a start.

 

[samiakh]

While a new batting coach may be required just becuase a fresh approach may help a bit. The problem is significantly deeper. Batsmen reaching the test level should only need fine tuning and some mental discipline training. Fundamentals should not be taught at test level. That's what Jr and first class cricket is for. Muddasar recently said he does not see one promising batsmen at either under-19 or under - 16 level. That issue will not be solved by replacing Flower.

We need more emphasis on improving the quality of batsmen at the domestic level. There is no quick fix here. Also PCB should devise a scheme to send two promising young batsmen to SAf and Aus and pay domestic teams there to allow them to play a certain number of matches. Or at the very least have A team tours to both these places every other year.

 

[MenInG]

Mickey Arthur on Grant Flower at end of SAvPAK Tests

"Grant Flower puts in a lot of work with the batsmen. In terms of techniques, of course we have to analyse. There's a reason why no subcontinent teams have won in South Africa. Asian guys stay legside of the ball, in these conditions you need to stay off side of the ball. You're going to get out on the short ball if you're leg side of the ball consistently. We're going to try to try to develop a game plan regarding the batsmen's techniques, to a point where at least we score. We have a lot of work to do. Outside our own conditions, we have to find players with the skill set to manage the bounce going forward. We play Sri Lanka in UAE in September then we play Australia in Australia after that, so we have to have our skill sets perfect to manage the bouncing ball by that time"

 

[Hawkeye]

Trust me, NO Grant Flower would have been better for Pak batsmen than having one.

This guy is getting a free paycheck for ruining the batsmen further.

How come he did not work on and fix the shortcomings with Fakhar? Or with bounce/short balls that applies to all the batsmen?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

We should sack the entire coaching staff including the captain.

Grant, Azhar, Mickey, Sarfraz, Hafeez and Malik are bare minimums that must be shown the door.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Grant Flower , how does he get away all the time

probably the most useless person in the coaching staff.. abs no input, no improvement in the batting ... all the same as 5 years ago and no1 argues about that... ... He needs to goooo

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Firing Flower won't change much. Asad and Azhar are done and guys like Babar, Haris and Shan have been doing well.

He can't teach people at this level to bat. The issues are deep and Wasim Khan needs to transform our domestic structure to get us back at the top.

At the moment we are SL, Zim level.

really? SL and Zim level... i know we aint world beaters but this is crap stuff man...

I would say we are there and there about on levels like Aus and NZ... easily behind india (unfortunatly) and Eng but Aus and NZ and Pak are at 1 level... just had stupid picks in that XI .. cut the trash like Malik, Haffez, Sarfraz( alittle harsh but he needs to go) and Hassan Ali (proper trash) and replace them with youngsters like Rizwan, Harris Rauf, Saud Shakeel, Aamir Yamin, Umer Khan, Shaan Masood, Abid Ali
and we shld be competing with top 4.. dont forget we closed good games vs Eng, NZ and SA.. take out a stupid sleeping display vs WI and a brain fade vs Aus and we would have qualified ...

 

[szundercover]

Media sources are saying that pcb is in favour to make younis khan the batting coach.

 

[Mueez]

Media sources are saying that pcb is in favour to make younis khan the batting coach.

Excellent.

Batsmen will improve their game against spin.

 

[Shafi]

Make Hafeez captain, Misbah as PCB chairman, appoint all parches in our cricket set up, coaching and persist with them for 10 years. Don’t need to bother of cricket anymore.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Grant has done a phenomenal job. Our batting has improved leaps and bounds.

 

[Savak]

5 years is too long for a coach. Time to move on