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Is it time to start counting Ravi Ashwin as a solid, proper batsman?

Slog said:
Discuss.
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Nah! A solid proper batsmen will be a little more consistent. He can go missing at times and gives a few chances while batting. Even when scores, he does get troubled quite a bit.

But he is extremely clutch. Still a bowling all-rounder.
 
Sidilicious said:
Nah! A solid proper batsmen will be a little more consistent. He can go missing at times and gives a few chances while batting. Even when scores, he does get troubled quite a bit.

But he is extremely clutch. Still a bowling all-rounder.
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More consistent than Rohit.
 
An interesting question : Who is better ? Ashwin the batsman or Nawaz the batsman ? (In tests)
 
This dismissal explains why he shouldn't be considered a proper bat.

Needed to do just a bit more. 2-3 more overs and the game would have been over.
 
Ashwin is awesome.

But he shouldn't bat at any spot above #8.
 
464 runs in his last 10 Test innings including scores of 56, 113, 118 and 70
 
He averages 35. Is that good enough for a #6? Maybe in a team with the batting depth of England and India but in a team like Australia, he would not be picked as a batsman.
 
Bilal7 said:
He averages 35. Is that good enough for a #6? Maybe in a team with the batting depth of England and India but in a team like Australia, he would not be picked as a batsman.
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Australia have been picking Mitchell Marsh who averages in the low 20s in Tests and high 20s in 1st class cricket to bat at No.6. They will gladly take Ashwin over Marsh.
 
He is very good in sub continent conditions.

Pretty much a Vettori
 
Sidilicious said:
He wasn't bad in Aus and England too!
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Yeah his confidence to back himself is highly commendable.

There are so many tailenders who can actually bat, as long as they themselves believe they are no mugs. Ashwin always comes out to bat as if he is there to prove a point. I like his approach
 
Rana said:
Yeah his confidence to back himself is highly commendable.

There are so many tailenders who can actually bat, as long as they themselves believe they are no mugs. Ashwin always comes out to bat as if he is there to prove a point. I like his approach
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Thats a for point. He doesnt normally score runs when everyone is scoring. i.e he wouldn't score a 50 when India just need dominate. But his scores come when the team needs it the most.
 
Nope, just falls short of being a proper batsman. He looks comfortable against all kind of bowling in different surfaces, but he makes lazy mistakes to be called a proper batsman.
 
Bilal7 said:
He averages 35. Is that good enough for a #6? Maybe in a team with the batting depth of England and India but in a team like Australia, he would not be picked as a batsman.
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Ashwin averages 66.5 at number 6. You can't take his overall average and say he's not good enough to bat at number 6 when he's played all his life mostly at number 8. However, having said that, Ashwin has only played 4 innings at #6 so it's early to make a call but he looks like a proper batsman with a solid defensive technique. I think if Kohli gives him the belief that he can and will be #6 for India, I think Ashwin can cement that slot.
 
Saurav said:
Who would be your #6 and #7
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For now our number 6 will depend on the team composition, and thats fine.

But in the long run, I'd like to see a wicketkeeper batsman at 6, and Ash at 7. That guarantees us 5 bowlers and a pretty deep batting line up. Obviously the WK after Saha should be a proper bat.
 
Ashwin has all the qualities of a top class test batsman. His defense is solid,he can smash bad balls and can score at a decent rate.

However he does not seem to put heavy price on his wicket. He seems to play casually every now and then. Can throw his wicket away once he reaches 30's.

If Rohit can be called a Test batsman, so can Ashwin be. In fact I will put my money on Ashwin to survive a hostile spell of pace/spin bowling over Gambhir, Rohit etc.
 
troodon said:
Ashwin has all the qualities of a top class test batsman. His defense is solid,he can smash bad balls and can score at a decent rate.

However he does not seem to put heavy price on his wicket. He seems to play casually every now and then. Can throw his wicket away once he reaches 30's.

If Rohit can be called a Test batsman, so can Ashwin be. In fact I will put my money on Ashwin to survive a hostile spell of pace/spin bowling over Gambhir, Rohit etc.
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He can't be called a proper test batsman. He shouldn't be playing for India.
 
Jan Sher said:
Nawaz pulled Wahab for a six in PSL, can Ashwin do that? No. This means Nawaz can be more suited to fast tracks compared to Ashwin.
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haha. Brilliant Logic.

Afridi hit the last 2 balls for a six of a spinner in asia cup in 2014. Can Younis Khan do that? No. So Afridi must be a better batsman against spin than YK.
 
Sidilicious said:
haha. Brilliant Logic.

Afridi hit the last 2 balls for a six of a spinner in asia cup in 2014. Can Younis Khan do that? No. So Afridi must be a better batsman against spin than YK.
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He's obviously trolling man.

That reply was a dead giveaway
 
Buffet said:
Nope, just falls short of being a proper batsman. He looks comfortable against all kind of bowling in different surfaces, but he makes lazy mistakes to be called a proper batsman.
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I think thats because being a front line bowler, he feels like he does not need to bat like a batsman. He was an opening batsman before he became a bowler and his technique is better than so many genuine batsmen
 
Ashwin is an example of a batsman who has over-achieved in the test format with the skill he has and under-achieved in shorter formats.

I wouldn't consider him a solid batsman. He is effectively a highly proficient tail ender, but you can expect him to get those 40-60 crucial runs in the end. Stats say he is better than Rohit, but anyone who understands the game will back Rohit over ashwin any format of the game.

I won't put it down to luck either because he has earned his runs. But the question is, how much is his ceiling really?
 
Varun said:
#6 = Batsman
#7 = Keeper (not Saha)

#8 = Ashwin
#9 = Jadeja
#10 = Seamer
#11 = Seamer
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I think we need to be more flexible with that 6th Bat/5th bowler position.

We obviously need a keeper who can be a relaible bat. Someone who can bat at 6 or 7 - above Ashwin.

Depending upon the surface we could then go for 4 bowlers with Ash at 8, and another bat at 6; or 5 bowlers with Ash ay 7.
 
Sidilicious said:
I think we need to be more flexible with that 6th Bat/5th bowler position.

We obviously need a keeper who can be a relaible bat. Someone who can bat at 6 or 7 - above Ashwin.

Depending upon the surface we could then go for 4 bowlers with Ash at 8, and another bat at 6; or 5 bowlers with Ash ay 7.
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People say Hardik Pandya could get a game. Reckon he's cut out for test level?
 
Varun said:
#6 = Batsman
#7 = Keeper (not Saha)

#8 = Ashwin
#9 = Jadeja
#10 = Seamer
#11 = Seamer
Click to expand...

Saha is an amazing keeper, one bad test and we are writing him off? Dhoni was pathetic initally
 
Indiafan said:
Saha is an amazing keeper, one bad test and we are writing him off? Dhoni was pathetic initally
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Dhoni was terrible throughout his test career. Only two knocks of note come to mind - the 70* at Lord's in 2007, and the 224* in Chennai 2013.

And let's not even get started with his dulcet captaincy...
 
Varun said:
Dhoni was terrible throughout his test career. Only two knocks of note come to mind - the 70* at Lord's in 2007, and the 224* in Chennai 2013.

And let's not even get started with his dulcet captaincy...
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just from memory .... (there is more)

148 vs Shoaib and co ... in Pak
90 vs Steyn and Co in SAF

IN B4 excuses to discount the above :)
 
Ashwin as a batsman would continue to do well. He is hard working and methodical.
he may not be that talented with the bat , but he he is very conscious and tries his best. This is the difference with Pakistan bowlers and Ashwin. Pakistan tail enders do not want to work hard. You need to work hard to improve your skills.
 
Tusker said:
90 vs Steyn and Co in SAF
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The one where we were smashed. South Africa piled up 600-something for four, that one?

Fantastic series to watch though, I'll give you that. Our #1 era test team's last major tour before they all faded away.
 
No.

Why?

Cos he has too many brainfreeze moments.

If you make a list of batsmen who are "all conditions batsman" in test, Ashwin will be there amongst a handful of names on your list.

He is a natural with the bat. Those rare fellas who are born with the talent to make everything look so easy when others are struggling.

But he doesn't have the temperament of a good batsman.

When a good batsman gets to 30s, you feel safe.

When Ashwin gets to 30s, you know he will get out anytime.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
No.

Why?

Cos he has too many brainfreeze moments.

If you make a list of batsmen who are "all conditions batsman" in test, Ashwin will be there amongst a handful of names on your list.

He is a natural with the bat. Those rare fellas who are born with the talent to make everything look so easy when others are struggling.

But he doesn't have the temperament of a good batsman.

When a good batsman gets to 30s, you feel safe.

When Ashwin gets to 30s, you know he will get out anytime.
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I think he takes his batting too casually.Unless ofcourse we are in trouble.Then he concentrates and usually makes a big score.A poor version of VVS Laxman you can say

However,since moving at 6 hes been doing well.I really wish its a permanent move.Better than Rohit for sure
 
Looks good enough to be a number 7 batsmen in test side and is a top quality bowler as well, only worry for india will be his workloads as hes having to do a lot with bat and ball at moment.
 
It's funny but he is developing into a bit of a poor man's VVS Laxman as [MENTION=45152]Saurav[/MENTION] says. He hardly scores runs when others are piling on the score but has played a lot of rescue acts for India in his short career under situations in which he is not expected to score.

He has been in fine form with the bat this year averaging nearly 45+, but I don't get the same confidence in him as a pure batsman for some reason. Maybe it is his seemingly lazy approach to the game with the bat and his tendency to throw good starts away. I however think that he has the ability to be someone who averages around 40 with the bat in the long run.
 
He needs to prove himself in Odis, anyone can score centuries in Test. Even Abul and Gazi have centuries in Test cricket. Ashwin looks like a genuine tailender in Odi's,.
 
He comes across as a "Proper" Batsman who might lose his place in the squad because of inconsistency/unreliability (do you remember people like Deep Das Gupta, Sanjay Bangar, Akash Chopra, Sadagopan Ramesh, etc? These guys could not retain their place in the team for long but served their purpose for some time) But since Ashwin is a premier bowler he will always be in the side and we will witness these odd flairs.

So his real batting prowess would have known had he played "only" as a batsman (If he had continued to open the innings - he surely has the mantle for that) it would have been interesting to see how much he applied himself & tried to cement himself as pure batsman! But usually such players would perish even more so if there is pressure (pressure of playing just as batsman?!?) So probably we are lucky that he flourished as a bowler and hence on odd occasions his batting also clicks!

To be honest India will only hope that he continues to contribute his best without putting too much pressure on him (let him bat at No.7 or No.8 whatever, if No.6 is too much demanding). India's real problem in test matches is either of No.6 batsman (e.g. Rohit?) or No.5 Bowler (e.g. Mishra/Jadeja/3rd Seamer depending on conditions) should be really effective (including the W/K batsman for added balance). Then Ashwin's batting actually comes in as a huge welcome bonus!

In LOIs it is a different story, after Raina/Yuvaraj/Dhoni's prime, India is actually finding difficulty in finding proper finishers/hard-hitters even in the early middle order, let alone Late Middle order/tail! We are always depending on Kohli who comes in at No.3 to do the finishing job!

Ashwin is even reduced to No.10 or No.11 in LOIs, loses his effectiveness completely because of demands like hard-hitting/running-between-wicket (reminds of Shane Warne, Shaul Pollock, etc, who were somewhat similar stories in Tests vs. LOIs. They all were too good in their main department to be dropped from LOIs for their lack of batting-impact in LOIs)
 
street cricketer said:
It's funny but he is developing into a bit of a poor man's VVS Laxman as [MENTION=45152]Saurav[/MENTION] says. He hardly scores runs when others are piling on the score but has played a lot of rescue acts for India in his short career under situations in which he is not expected to score.

He has been in fine form with the bat this year averaging nearly 45+, but I don't get the same confidence in him as a pure batsman for some reason. Maybe it is his seemingly lazy approach to the game with the bat and his tendency to throw good starts away. I however think that he has the ability to be someone who averages around 40 with the bat in the long run.
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maybe he would be better in this regard if the expectation from team management was for him to regularly contribute with runs. i guess his recent move up will be the test
 
Saurav said:
I think he takes his batting too casually.Unless ofcourse we are in trouble.Then he concentrates and usually makes a big score.A poor version of VVS Laxman you can say

However,since moving at 6 hes been doing well.I really wish its a permanent move.Better than Rohit for sure
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Saurav said:
I think he takes his batting too casually.Unless ofcourse we are in trouble.Then he concentrates and usually makes a big score.A poor version of VVS Laxman you can say

However,since moving at 6 hes been doing well.I really wish its a permanent move.Better than Rohit for sure
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Yeah, needs to cut down on the stupid shot. Every now and then he has to play a needless shot. Until he does that, he won't give a proper bat's vibe.

His numbers are stunning though.

Averages 66 at number 6 (just 4 tests though so can't say). This year he averages 45 with the bat (8 tests). The real average could be 51 cos he had to face 1-2 balls (as a new batsman) in WI in 1 innings where he had to smash it and he got out to that ball. Absolutely useless when he has to hit it.

And to think of those situations where he scored those runs. Every single one of them scored when our team was in big trouble. In WI (both 100s), against NZ (when we had a collapse), and now against Eng (if any of Vijay, Pujara, Kohli and Ash had scored even a bit less, we would have lost this test).
 
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Lot of people don't realize how talented international cricketers actually are. Ashwin is a very good batsman, just not good enough to be a genuine batsman at the highest level.
 
Slog said:
maybe he would be better in this regard if the expectation from team management was for him to regularly contribute with runs. i guess his recent move up will be the test
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I'm afraid all this focus on his batting might affect his bowling which is his better craft.
 
He is a complete batsman, will make a few more centuries for india i am sure, and might as well turn out to be their best allrounder overtaking Kapil
 
He should not bat higher than #7. India has to find a better keeper batsman than Saha who can bat at #6.
 
He does a rescue job every second innings
 
Good performance but still not a pure bat.

A pure bat will be expected to score a 100 tomorrow. How many people honestly expect Ashwin to score a 100 tomorrow?

When Ashwin can regularly turn his 30s and 50s into high scores....then maybe.

Also his performance when he is not in form with the bat will dictate what level he really is in.
 
In Asia India can play him at 6 , it's a risk but he won't have to encounter swing and bounce. Away from the subcontinent he should bat 7 or 8. He has a decent technique and good mentallity.

I would count him a bowling all rounder, a proper batsmen would score a century tomorrow just like SIF said.
 
Paul Collingwood on Sky described him as having a style akin to Laxmans because of his lazy elegance
 
Hasan123 said:
In Asia India can play him at 6 , it's a risk but he won't have to encounter swing and bounce. Away from the subcontinent he should bat 7 or 8. He has a decent technique and good mentallity.

I would count him a bowling all rounder, a proper batsmen would score a century tomorrow just like SIF said.
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Being the kind of guy he is, you never know. He may score a century tomorrow and mess with our heads. :))

Almost scored a 100 against England in 2012 too before he was left stranded on 91.

Even if he does score a 100 tomorrow, still won't accept him as a pure bat yet cos consistency of such knocks matter. Plus I find his attitude of playing idiotic shots from time to time irksome. A pure bat can't afford to do that.

If he tightens up his game, stops his brainfreeze moments that come every now and then and starts looking super solid, then people may feel comfortable viewing him as a pure bat and stick with that view even if he goes through a lean patch.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Being the kind of guy he is, you never know. He may score a century tomorrow and mess with our heads. :))

Almost scored a 100 against England in 2012 too before he was left stranded on 91.

Even if he does score a 100 tomorrow, still won't accept him as a pure bat yet cos consistency of such knocks matter. Plus I find his attitude of playing idiotic shots from time to time irksome. A pure bat can't afford to do that.

If he tightens up his game, stops his brainfreeze moments that come every now and then and starts looking super solid, then people may feel comfortable viewing him as a pure bat and stick with that view even if he goes through a lean patch.
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He does look comfortable at times than he throws it away. Maybe still has the tail ender mindset. But honestly he has a good technique and can play proper shots. It's a mental thing with him. Maybe if he can get a century tomorrow, it could be the start of some consistent scores.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Good performance but still not a pure bat.

A pure bat will be expected to score a 100 tomorrow. How many people honestly expect Ashwin to score a 100 tomorrow?

When Ashwin can regularly turn his 30s and 50s into high scores....then maybe.

Also his performance when he is not in form with the bat will dictate what level he really is in.
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For me Ashwin is the 2nd most reliable batsman in the Indian team.He scores when you need him, What a team player.
 
He needs to convert these 30-50 to tons more often to be counted as batsman. You will accept that from a batsman.
 
Hasan123 said:
He does look comfortable at times than he throws it away. Maybe still has the tail ender mindset. But honestly he has a good technique and can play proper shots. It's a mental thing with him. Maybe if he can get a century tomorrow, it could be the start of some consistent scores.
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Its not even about dismissal for me. If you take any of his good innings, there would be atleast 3-4 shots that were completely unnecessary which could have got him out. I am not talking about dropped catches or no balls or umpire errors. Just needless shots. On a bad day, all those shots would get him out.

Last game against Rashid he tried to sweep him above the keepers head exposing all the 3 stumps. If the ball had spun decently, he would have been out. What kind of shot is that? Pointless really compared to the 2-3 runs you would get.

That's the issue with Ashwin which is why he gets out on 30s or 40s too often cos after a while, those things catches up with you.

Mind you, I am not saying he is lucky per se but he does play the somewhat high risk shot, poke, nudge which can get him out and that's why he gets so many starts and gets out.

This guy averages 35 inspite of not being able to kick on which is a testament to the number of starts he gets. If he had the ability to kick on and take his 40s into 100s....150s and 170s......he would average 45-50 easy.

I won't be surprised if his "get set" to "flop" ratio is on par with the top bats in the world.

Bewal Express said:
For me Ashwin is the 2nd most reliable batsman in the Indian team.He scores when you need him, What a team player.
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He is a great team player. Scores those clutch runs so many times that I have lost count. Imagine the series scorecard without his runs. Would make for a painful reading for an Indian fan.

But those 30s and 50s (leaving aside the occasional 100s) look meaningful cos real bats (Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane) do the scoring and Ash bridges the gap beautifully.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Its not even about dismissal for me. If you take any of his good innings, there would be atleast 3-4 shots that were completely unnecessary which could have got him out. I am not talking about dropped catches or no balls or umpire errors. Just needless shots. On a bad day, all those shots would get him out.

Last game against Rashid he tried to sweep him above the keepers head exposing all the 3 stumps. If the ball had spun decently, he would have been out. What kind of shot is that? Pointless really compared to the 2-3 runs you would get.

That's the issue with Ashwin which is why he gets out on 30s or 40s too often cos after a while, those things catches up with you.

Mind you, I am not saying he is lucky per se but he does play the somewhat high risk shot, poke, nudge which can get him out and that's why he gets so many starts and gets out.

This guy averages 35 inspite of not being able to kick on which is a testament to the number of starts he gets. If he had the ability to kick on and take his 40s into 100s....150s and 170s......he would average 45-50 easy.

I won't be surprised if his "get set" to "flop" ratio is on par with the top bats in the world.



He is a great team player. Scores those clutch runs so many times that I have lost count. Imagine the series scorecard without his runs. Would make for a painful reading for an Indian fan.

But those 30s and 50s (leaving aside the occasional 100s) look meaningful cos real bats (Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane) do the scoring and Ash bridges the gap beautifully.
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When he is dissmed from a poor shot you notice it more than when he plays well despite giving chances away.

He is going to play some poor shots at time because he is still adjusting to batting high up the order, so he has to learn when to play risky shots and when not to and which bowlers to target.

I think he can average 40 with the bat and about 25 with the ball.
 
He is a genuine all rounder.

Look at the situations he has made runs . You got to give him credit where it is due.
 
Ashwin is batting better than some of our so-called 'batsmen'.

Kudos to him for working hard on his weaker suite and adding much needed depth to the side.
 
Syed1 said:
Ashwin is batting better than some of our so-called 'batsmen'.

Kudos to him for working hard on his weaker suite and adding much needed depth to the side.
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Last time Pak v Eng in UAE. Averages: Hafeez-63, Misbah- 59, Shafiq- 54, YK- 50, Malik- 49. :p
 
A very good all rounder...Yes.
If you consider him as a proper batsman, then the next question you ask yourself can he be played as a batter only by India?....Nope.
Hell, he is not even trusted fully yet to play at no 6 as a proper all rounder aka Imran, Flintoff etc...so playing as a batter is way way away.
 
He is a touch player. He probably is a better test player than lot of top order batsman around the world. But his primary job is bowling. His batting should always be considered a bonus. Bit like Daniel Vettori (slightly better than him). He looks like a top order because his strokes are something you don't associate with lower order batsman. Back in 80s Binny, Madanlal could bat like top order because they were solid batsmen for their state. Ashwin is a rare breed. A lower order batsman for his state but a middle order for country.
 
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