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Is it wise for Pakistan cricket team to trade off WTC points with discovery of new pacers?

Is it wise for Pakistan cricket team to trade off WTC points with discovery of new pacers?


  • Total voters
    8
Lol no pakistan in the 90s were mediocre and never the top team. Used to lose home series to the likes of zimbabwe, sri lanka as well as aus, south africa, england etc. they were better than India that's it.

Pakistan have never had a great team in history.

And it's funny talking about losing in finals when india has won two icc trophies in 8 months, not losing a single match which is the same number of icc trophies pak has won in the last 33 years lol.

Kohli and Rohit has won more ICC trophies than entire Pakistan in the 53 year history of ICC trophies.
Ya right india were top teams lmao minnows you guys were always mediocre just got better now with all the money play only cricket nobody even invited you idiots in england where pakistan got the admiration who cares what you lot think about pakistan pakistan was always a powerhouse in cricket ask Michael Atherton and naseer hussain ian botham they will tell you wasim and imran khan alone is what india has produced in their cricket history let that sink in.
 
Ya right india were top teams lmao minnows you guys were always mediocre just got better now with all the money play only cricket nobody even invited you idiots in england where pakistan got the admiration who cares what you lot think about pakistan pakistan was always a powerhouse in cricket ask Michael Atherton and naseer hussain ian botham they will tell you wasim and imran khan alone is what india has produced in their cricket history let that sink in.
blah blah blah

India plays 5 match series in Aus and Eng every 4 years. Pak is a 2 match team. This is your level.

Wasim and Imran never won a series in West Indies, Australia or South Africa lol. Bumrah is better than both.

Atherton/Hussain themselves are mediocre players.

Pakistan was never a powerhouse. They were no 3 at best at their peak.

You have the same number of ICC trophies like Sri Lanka, a country with population less than Karachi lol.
 
Ya right india were top teams lmao minnows you guys were always mediocre just got better now with all the money play only cricket nobody even invited you idiots in england where pakistan got the admiration who cares what you lot think about pakistan pakistan was always a powerhouse in cricket ask Michael Atherton and naseer hussain ian botham they will tell you wasim and imran khan alone is what india has produced in their cricket history let that sink in.
Damn bro, I had no idea you could give it back like this. Nice going.

What a savage reply lol. Anyway heads up the guy you're talking to created 6 alts and bald Eagle already told me about it + IP addresses.

Google toggle, Bcci enforcer and many others. He's that much of a waste. And now those accounts have all vanished, been banned or disappeared after I exposed him for it 🤣🤣, he's a waste of time.
 
@GoUgandaCranes - as always a very detailed and good quality cost. However, one point, you mentioned Pakistan pitches were phattas before the UAE, yet link the UAE to the destruction of fast bowling.

To be honest I think this is a way ( not deliberately of course) to pin the blame on external circumstances rather than the fact we orchestrated our own demise.

Not trying to pin the blame on external circumstances but just explaining what happened to our bowlers in chronological order. Still don't know what happened to our pace bowlers & why we have not produced a fast bowler who has had any form of longevity.

Just adding a bit more context to my post below.

Pak pitches have always been flat. The reason our fast bowling succeeded was that the outfields were rough & the pitches were hard which helped reverse swing. This led to our bowlers becoming masters of reverse swing & then the art form was taken to the next level by Imran, Waqar, & Wasim. We almost had an unbroken chain of quality fast bowlers until 2010 when the chain was broken (by this I mean that every 11 of Pak had at least one fast bowler who the other team was afraid of).

For context, Fazl was the pioneer, a medium pacer who excelled in conditions that offered help but was levels above anyone on matted pitches (jute mats) on which his leg cutter almost became unplayable. Then we struggled a bit but the torch was eventually passed on to Sarfraz, and then from him it went to Imran. Next in line were the two W's who were personally mentored by Imran & in the mid 90s while both of these were active players, Shoaib had emerged as well. When the W's retired, we had Shoaib who held the Pak fast bowling flag high and during his tenure Asif & Amir had also showed potential to be the next generational talents who could carry on the legacy. Then came the spot fixing scandal, retirement of last batting stalwarts of the 90s era, & move to UAE, three events from which our test fast bowling has not recovered.

The move to UAE was even more terrible because while Pak pitches were flat, we didn't generally play cricket in the summer months. This also meant that even though the pitches didn't offer much, winter months did offer something in early morning hours and even medium pacers could succeed so Pak always went into matches with at least 2 or 3 fast/fast medium bowlers. The move to UAE meant dealing with desert conditions where having 2 or 3 spinners became the norm as it was too hot to bowl fast & outfields were artificially kept so lush that reverse swing became minimal. Ajmal, Rehman, & Hafeez were bowling most of the overs & we started winning.

This Aqib ball era isn't new, it's basically rehashing Misbah era but instead of having naturally tailor made conditions to do so, we are now burning our pitches to mimic UAE conditions so we can replicate our spin to win strategy.

Is that strategy going to give us long-term rewards? No one will be able to answer that question at this time.

Personally think that balanced conditions create better more well-rounded cricketers who do well & bring long-term success and play attractive cricket. I may be wrong but when I look at Noman, I don't see a great there. He's just a one-dimensional cricketer who gets out bowled often in favorable conditions (Muthusamy got 11 wickets in this match, Jomel out bowled him in the last series against WI). It's almost certain that he won't even make it to the playing 11 when conditions won't suit him. This isn't a diss or disrespect on him, it's just that he won't be well respected in the game like a Shane Warne or a Murali.
 
Damn bro, I had no idea you could give it back like this. Nice going.

What a savage reply lol. Anyway heads up the guy you're talking to created 6 alts and bald Eagle already told me about it + IP addresses.

Google toggle, Bcci enforcer and many others. He's that much of a waste. And now those accounts have all vanished, been banned or disappeared after I exposed him for it 🤣🤣, he's a waste of time.
Lol quoting each other and thinking you are heroes lol.

I see that you have not replied to my rebuttal about Sajid-Noman outbowling Warrican, "aussie" lol.
 
Damn bro, I had no idea you could give it back like this. Nice going.

What a savage reply lol. Anyway heads up the guy you're talking to created 6 alts and bald Eagle already told me about it + IP addresses.

Google toggle, Bcci enforcer and many others. He's that much of a waste. And now those accounts have all vanished, been banned or disappeared after I exposed him for it 🤣🤣, he's a waste of time.
Bro i don't get into unnecessary things but when it comes to facts and we all know what kind of team india was back then it's really important to give them back and let them know their so called strong team which they clearly weren't even now with all the power and money they are well behind west indies legacy australia is way ahead of them.
 
Bro i don't get into unnecessary things but when it comes to facts and we all know what kind of team india was back then it's really important to give them back and let them know their so called strong team which they clearly weren't even now with all the power and money they are well behind west indies legacy australia is way ahead of them.
You are not Australia.

And India has surpassed West Indies. Same number of ODI WCs and T20 WCs plus more CTs.

Also way higher test W/L ratio. India has won test series in every country barring SA, similar to WI.

10 consecutive series wins against them without a single match lost which is a world record. Even Windies in the 70s and 80s used to lose to India.

India's legacy is way ahead of Pakistan's. Pakistan only has 3 ICC trophies and has not yet won test series in Aus (where India has won twice) or SA.
 
Lol quoting each other and thinking you are heroes lol.

I see that you have not replied to my rebuttal about Sajid-Noman outbowling Warrican, "aussie" lol.
I didnt see that message, cause you're on my ignore list. Its a shame that when posters reply to others, the ignored posters message unfortunately appears as a headline warning rather then being absent altogether.

Why would I waste my time with someone who's simply going to make him 7th or 8th account titled as Birla or Mukesh Ambani?

However I feel it's vital to warn others on this forumn about a poster who

A) is an obvious old user who created a recent account and peddling as a newbie.

B) Is an indian troll on a Pakistani site

C) Is creating 6+ accounts to troll for the sake of trolling despite being warned by others including moderators at this point.

While I honestly don't give a cahoot about you, I have noticed others who interact with you, either receive a similar warning despite not initiating any conflict solely due to the fact that you have made trolling other nationalities your constitutional right or just have an unpleasant experience regardless.

Hence its imperative I spread the warning.

Now this will be my FINAL REPLY TO YOU ever on this forumn. Whether you wish to reply to this comment with

A) An insult

B) A justification

C) Pinging others for validation and a pat on the back cause your own mother cannot bottle feed you

D) Radio silence

I couldn't care less. I will keep doing whatever I want. 💯
 
I didnt see that message, cause you're on my ignore list. Its a shame that when posters reply to others, the ignored posters message unfortunately appears as a headline warning rather then being absent altogether.

Why would I waste my time with someone who's simply going to make him 7th or 8th account titled as Birla or Mukesh Ambani?

However I feel it's vital to warn others on this forumn about a poster who

A) is an obvious old user who created a recent account and peddling as a newbie.

B) Is an indian troll on a Pakistani site

C) Is creating 6+ accounts to troll for the sake of trolling despite being warned by others including moderators at this point.

While I honestly don't give a cahoot about you, I have noticed others who interact with you, either receive a similar warning despite not initiating any conflict solely due to the fact that you have made trolling other nationalities your constitutional right or just have an unpleasant experience regardless.

Hence its imperative I spread the warning.

Now this will be my FINAL REPLY TO YOU ever on this forumn. Whether you wish to reply to this comment with

A) An insult

B) A justification

C) Pinging others for validation and a pat on the back cause your own mother cannot bottle feed you

D) Radio silence

I couldn't care less. I will keep doing whatever I want. 💯
Yup, lying. :ROFLMAO:
 
Some people always wanna have the last word i suppose. Sigh. Its a shame I can't block forever since a new alt will be coming soon enough.
 
Haha @The Bald Eagle you are the one that is rattled.

Firstly, Kohli and co drew a series in England as did Gill and co when your lot were getting bullied and defeated by Crawley & co.

Secondly, even with Kohli's downfall these guys still failed in South Africa, Australia and NZ and got whitewashed in all three. Kohli in his last series had a match winning hundred at Perth and has twice as many SENA hundred (12) than Misbah and Younis combined. They didn't "improve" in their twilight years, just had the luxury of playing in UAE which like you said was "flat".

Thirdly, even if they won in UAE they were poor abroad - getting whitewashed in SA, Aus, SL and NZ and drawing in Zimbabwe. Kohli won twice in Aus, drew in SA, won twice in SL with one being an away whitewash.

And we should not even be talking about finals in that era considering that in white ball that team was constantly humiliated and kicked out in the first round, often by India.
They did defeat SL in SL in 2015-16 with chase in record time...That your king can't even imagine.

Also how many centuries had Younis scored away from home and Kohli....(Lol expect big silence)

Hahah...yes we shouldn't take about final with those ones who bottled that two times in WTC despite being favorites and has never won any ICC final with ease.

By the way where is your alt, I mean friend that I mentioned :kp
 
How many fast bowling performances have helped us win in Tests? Generally its been the spinners and before Nauman/Sajid, it was Yasir Shah who was bowling out his mind to help Pakistan win in Tests, including in England. Before that, it was Ajmal/Rehman etc. The most success we have in Tests in the last couple of decades is when Pakistan have played on spinning pitches and won whether that's in UAE or Pakistan.

For all this talk of fast bowling culture, it doesn't really meet the reality. It was forever ago last time a pacer had 200+ wickets in Tests. Most of pacers Pakistan develop nowadays, will have one injury and be extremely diminished players so I am not sure why you need to build pitches to cater to that.

Continue building spinning tracks vs SENA teams and for sub-continent teams, build more pacer friendly pitches then. Either way, can people for once just enjoy Pakistan winning at home. I am not sure why there is such an obsession in doing it with seam tracks like you get extra points or rewards for it. People complained when Misbah made UAE a fortress because it was boring but regardless, it's better than a loss. Just enjoy Pakistan not being a complete laughing stock at home. Stick with this formula until you perfect it and like India, continue developing players who know how to play & win at home before you worry about winning overseas or anything.
 
They did defeat SL in SL in 2015-16 with chase in record time...That your king can't even imagine.

Also how many centuries had Younis scored away from home and Kohli....(Lol expect big silence)

Hahah...yes we shouldn't take about final with those ones who bottled that two times in WTC despite being favorites and has never won any ICC final with ease.

By the way where is your alt, I mean friend that I mentioned :kp
Lol Kohli has won two series in SL, one too a whitewash. They were innings defeats. Not as mediocre as the Pak team to even give record chases. Fact is Younis-Misbah were whitewashed in SL in 2014 and India whitewashed SL in 2017.

In fact even in 2012 Younis-Misbah lost in SL 0-1.

Younis-Misbah even drew 1-1 to SL in UAE while Kohli beat them in both 2017 and 2022 with 2022 being a whitewash.

Kohli has won every series vs SL, home or away with two of them being whitewashes,
Younis has the same number of away 100s as Kohli - 16. That is a self goal hahahahahaha :dw

And that includes centuries vs the likes of Zimbabwe. If you take out minnows, Kohli has more away 100s than Younis lol


Pakistan hasn't even made WTC finals to be talking about it and in fact have ended at the bottom or nearabouts in all editions.

And is "ICC final with ease" the new cope?

Lol, like "India not winning the AC final with ease" cope

Pakistan has won same number of ICC titles as Sri Lanka, their true rivals.
 
How many fast bowling performances have helped us win in Tests? Generally its been the spinners and before Nauman/Sajid, it was Yasir Shah who was bowling out his mind to help Pakistan win in Tests, including in England. Before that, it was Ajmal/Rehman etc. The most success we have in Tests in the last couple of decades is when Pakistan have played on spinning pitches and won whether that's in UAE or Pakistan.

For all this talk of fast bowling culture, it doesn't really meet the reality. It was forever ago last time a pacer had 200+ wickets in Tests. Most of pacers Pakistan develop nowadays, will have one injury and be extremely diminished players so I am not sure why you need to build pitches to cater to that.

Continue building spinning tracks vs SENA teams and for sub-continent teams, build more pacer friendly pitches then. Either way, can people for once just enjoy Pakistan winning at home. I am not sure why there is such an obsession in doing it with seam tracks like you get extra points or rewards for it. People complained when Misbah made UAE a fortress because it was boring but regardless, it's better than a loss. Just enjoy Pakistan not being a complete laughing stock at home. Stick with this formula until you perfect it and like India, continue developing players who know how to play & win at home before you worry about winning overseas or anything.
Ya so true bro pakistan just doesn't have those fast bowlers anymore it's spinners who are your match winner they are the one who are winning you matches
 
Man, Pakistani posters here just lie a lot without looking at the facts and when they get corrected, just ignore it.

1. Steve Smith and David Warner have won 6 ICC titles - false
2. Pakistan women's cricket team have won ICC title - false
3. Noman and Sajid outbowled Warrican - false
4. Younis has more away hundreds than Kohli - false
5. Younis has more hundreds than Jadeja and Kohli combined - false
 
Hahah...yeah Younis is bad because he scored 34 centuries in 118 matches but Virat and Jadu are both legend who scored 36 centuries combined in 123+86 Tests 🤣🤣 hahah self goal

 
I am not a fan of these wickets but you play with the resources you have and atm we have low quality pace, who are generally ineffective. And winning breeds confidence
 
Hahah...yeah Younis is bad because he scored 34 centuries in 118 matches but Virat and Jadu are both legend who scored 36 centuries combined in 123+86 Tests 🤣🤣 hahah self goal

Again changing goals.

You can't combine matches like that when they are mostly playing the same matches lol. And Jadeja is an allrounder lol.

Let's apply the same criteria to some Pakistani players.

Kohli scored 30 centuries in 123 tests. Miandad and Imran Khan who are Pakistani legends scored 29 centuries combined (Actually less than Kohli) in 124 + 88 tests.

hahahahaha another self goal

that is 3-0, same as the Asia Cup scoreline.
 
There is nothing more in this. It's about having a good domestic structure with variety of pitches and then giving chance to players who do well there. There is no other short cut which can work all the time.

Once that happens, 250M cricket crazy country will produce all kinds of players. Be it batsmen, spinners or pacers.
 
Thanks to that 800 run carnage Noman Ali has a new lease of life. He was averaging 38 before industrial fans. Nothing wrong with having surfaces that suit home team. Totally fine. Zimbabwe, Bangladesh do it all the time. With favorable schedule they can even dream of WTC final. They just need chacha to play into his 50s lol.
 
Thanks to that 800 run carnage Noman Ali has a new lease of life. He was averaging 38 before industrial fans. Nothing wrong with having surfaces that suit home team. Totally fine. Zimbabwe, Bangladesh do it all the time. With favorable schedule they can even dream of WTC final. They just need chacha to play into his 50s lol.
Naah, there is no opponent against whom you can say Pak has a guaranteed win. Guaranteed losses in SENA but no guaranteed wins.

Even in industrial fan era they could not defeat a weak WI at home. Depending on tosses they can lose at home too.

And even away, they drew vs WI who have become better since then with Shamar and Seales. Seales has already given them a preview.
 
First tell me the about the bowlers discovered by PCB management who want to play red ball??
 
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