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Is Jahangir Khan the greatest sportsman ever?

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The greatest sportsman ever – of any sport? Well, his record of winning 555 consecutive matches – to mention just one of many exceptional achievements – remains unchallenged by any other athlete to this day.

Some of his records:

- Won World Amateur Championships at age 15;
- Won World Open Championships at age 17; the youngest ever;
- Unbeaten for 5 years and 8 months; winning 555 matches consecutively;
- British Open Champion 10 times in a row (1982-1993); which remains -unchallenged;
- World Open Champion 6 times – for which he is listed in the Guinness Book of world records
- 1st player to win World Open Championships without dropping a game;
- Played longest squash match in history (1983) – 2hours, 46 minutes;

Another interesting point is that his record of 555 matches is tournament matches, so therefore, if you include other matches, such as exhibitions matches, he would've had an even bigger streak.

For me, he is undoubtedly the greatest sportsman ever but I could be wrong. What do you think? Discuss.
 
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Does anyone outside of Pakistan or may be India know who Jahangir Khan is?
 
Greatest squash player ever, obviously.

Greatest sportsman, not sure, as it depends on the standing of the sport that he owned. Does squash have the same global base as say football? What about the highest salary? The number of people competing in various leagues to reach the elite form?
 
I have no clue who he is

I have once heard about him when I was watching some Squash tournament live on DoorDarshan back in 90's.

I bet 99% of Indians even in urban areas do not know what squash is. Forget about the players that played it.

Is Racket ball same as Squash?
 
I have once heard about him when I was watching some Squash tournament live on DoorDarshan back in 90's.

I bet 99% of Indians even in urban areas do not know what squash is. Forget about the players that played it.

Is Racket ball same as Squash?

Not sure what squash is :danish
 
Greatest sportsman is endlessly debatable but a stronger case can be made for greatest athlete. Going unbeaten for five years in a physically demanding game like squash and not missing many games shows supreme fitness and athleticism. Not many athletes have can achieve that level of fitness irrespective of the sports popularity or standing.

And Jehangir Khan is much more well known outside Pakistan and India then people seem to think. Squash was a much more popular sport in the 80's in Australia and Europe. And how much the global popularity of the sport matters is debatable. Most cricketers are not well known outside the subcontinent, people know Muhammad Ali but the viewership of boxing in India or Pakistan would be negligible. Same goes for baseball and basketball outside America and a lot of Olympic sports are pretty niche. Winning an Olympic gold medal and doing it consecutively over a period of time would still be a huge achievement irrespective of the popularity of the sport. And if Jehangir khan was American (or even Indian) and if he played in the era of social media and over hyped marketing he would certainly have been labelled as the greatest sportsman ever (not that I agree with that label).
 
Few years ago Geo Super made a great documentary on Jahangir Khan.

That is not available online which is a huge miss.


I don't think I have read or seen any SportsMan train as much and as hard as Jahangir Khan.


Physically He was so so strong. His stamenna, endurance, energy levels were matchless.


Hope anybody from his family or extended family makes name like him or even Jansher.


Sad to see our state in Squash & Hockey.
 
He ticks every box besides the global mainstream appeal, the greatest without a doubt was Muhammad Ali
 
Greatest sportsman is endlessly debatable but a stronger case can be made for greatest athlete. Going unbeaten for five years in a physically demanding game like squash and not missing many games shows supreme fitness and athleticism. Not many athletes have can achieve that level of fitness irrespective of the sports popularity or standing.

And Jehangir Khan is much more well known outside Pakistan and India then people seem to think. Squash was a much more popular sport in the 80's in Australia and Europe. And how much the global popularity of the sport matters is debatable. Most cricketers are not well known outside the subcontinent, people know Muhammad Ali but the viewership of boxing in India or Pakistan would be negligible. Same goes for baseball and basketball outside America and a lot of Olympic sports are pretty niche. Winning an Olympic gold medal and doing it consecutively over a period of time would still be a huge achievement irrespective of the popularity of the sport. And if Jehangir khan was American (or even Indian) and if he played in the era of social media and over hyped marketing he would certainly have been labelled as the greatest sportsman ever (not that I agree with that label).

Everyone knew who he was despite the lack of popularity when it came to certain sports compared to the national ones he still bought attention to boxing from every territory. Ali has also visited Pakistan twice. Muhammad Ali participated in fourth South Asian Games in 1989 in Islamabad as a special guest. His visit here was no less than an honor for Pakistanis. He visited Lahore’s Kinniard College in 1988 where he met and took pictures with students. He also met with common citizens during his visits. PTV use to cover Ali's fights in Pakistan.


Some tributes in the wake of his passing from Pakistan:

https://www.dawn.com/news/1262898

"Anyone who lived through the 1970s could not have remained immune to the phenomenon that was Muhammad Ali, even if — like me — they had missed him at the peak of his athletic powers.

Coming back to boxing after being stripped of his world heavyweight title and having his boxing license revoked in 1967 by US boxing authorities for three and a half years — because of his refusal to participate in America’s war in Vietnam — he was a larger than life figure.

Not only was he a spectacular athlete rising from the ashes of forced exile, he was a moral giant, unafraid to put his principles before fame and money. But as a kid, I didn’t know all this.

Early mornings with Ali
For me, it was the pure excitement he inspired in everyone around me, particularly my father.

I still vividly recall being woken up by him early in the morning so my brother and I could watch PTV’s live transmission with him of Ali’s famous ‘Rumble in the Jungle’ fight against George Foreman in Kinshasa, Zaire. Ali would win that hugely hyped fight to regain his heavyweight crown.

We would repeat that early morning ritual many times later, whenever Ali’s fights were shown in Pakistan, which — if I am not mistaken — was always.

Live transmissions of sporting events were rare events then and being allowed, nay encouraged, to wake up in the middle of the night to view them, were the pinnacle of excitement as a kid.

Explore: Dawn archives — 'Muhammad Ali comes to Pakistan' and more

At some point, I was presented with a 45rpm record of Ali’s iconic pep song ‘Float Like A Butterfly, Sting Like A Bee’ and it became one of my most prized possessions. I used to listen to it over and over.

Later on, as I grew older, I came to despise the very spectacle of boxing, which more and more reminded me of Roman gladiatorial contests, poor people damaging and sometimes, killing each other for the sport of others and the monetary benefit of rich promoters.

The long-term medical consequences of concussive blows to the head that boxing perhaps causes were only tragically manifest in Ali’s own later development of Parkinson’s disease.

Perhaps this growing up coincided with Ali’s decline as well, perhaps it was independent of it.

But I more or less lost interest in watching boxing after Ali was beaten by a young and unlikeable Leon Spinks. Ali would go on and win his title back one more time from Spinks but he was already not the same athlete any more.

When he lost his last title fight with Larry Holmes in 1980, it was too painful to watch.

But I never stopped loving Ali.

As I learned more about the struggles of his early years (my father bought me a biography) and his conscientious objection to America’s murderous war in Vietnam and his activism against racism at home, my respect only deepened.

As many people have pointed out, he was a poor black kid from Kentucky who bootstrapped himself up to the heights of fame and money and then gave it all up for his principles.

In pictures: Muhammad Ali: 'The Greatest' boxer, showman, ambassador

Not only this, he was willing to accept the derision of his hyper-patriotic countryfolk and undergo a jail sentence for his values.

One would be hard-pressed to find any other such example of moral fearlessness in the sporting or entertainment world, where athletes and entertainers cave under far softer pressures, usually just the threat of withdrawal of sponsorship dollars.

Pakistan's Champ
I have often pondered over what it was that inspired such a following of an American boxer so far away in a country like Pakistan — certainly no other pugilist before or since Ali has inspired the same sort of adulation.

Pakistanis often still do not know the names of most American athletes and boxing is still a fringe sport in this country. Was it the fact that he had converted to Islam and Pakistanis came to see him as one of their own?

It’s probably true that Ali being a Muslim played a big part in why Pakistanis embraced him as ‘ours.’

Recall that these were also heady days of the 1st Islamic Summit Conference, which had taken place in Lahore in early 1974, with grand calls for Muslim unity.

But to reduce the phenomenon of Ali to his religious conversion would be simplistic.

It doesn’t explain, for example, his massive adoration around the world, even among non-Muslims. Mike Tyson, another world-renowned boxer, would also convert to Islam many years later but he never commanded the love of ordinary Pakistanis the way Ali did.

No, Ali was much more than just a convert.

In his persona Ali projected a complicated mix of emotions for his fans around the world — underdog fighting against the odds, moral strength, grace under pressure, likeable wit, anti-colonialism, anti-imperialism, sacrificing for what one believes in and, yes, the beauty of pure athleticism.


Some of these qualities were even inferred from his sportsmanship. I recall discussing as a young boy how Ali never went for body-blows, unlike his rivals, his only jabs were to the head.

This was taken, in our naïve hero-worship, as another sign of how Ali played ‘clean’, never sullying himself with ‘low’ things like punches to the gut or the abdomen.

But boxing was never the real reason for Ali’s greatness. The fact of the matter is Ali transcended sport and spectacle.

This is why even 30-odd years after his retirement he remained an icon, even to those (in the majority, it should be pointed out) who never lived through the 1970s and were born long after he entered the ring for the last time. He was what we all aspire to be as human beings.

Rest in peace, Champ. You truly were the greatest."

Here is Ali with Sultan Rahi one of Pakistan's famous actors:

5753d3339657e.jpg


Another link of an article paying tribute to Ali from Pakistan with some insight:

https://arynews.tv/en/muhammed-ali-made-two-visits-pakistan/

"The legendary boxer paid visit to Data Darbar in Lahore and made pictures with the then chief minister Punjab and current Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif as well.

The greatest boxer would be remembered forever not just because of his boxing but because of his efforts for humanitarian causes.

"
 
And with respect to the poster above! if boxer's trained for squash the same way they do for a fight they would still be playing the squash well into their 60's :broad
 
Those who dont know, watch this short video.

Answer to the thread is Yes!
There was a time when I used to watch squash videos and I observed that squash is more popular outside Pakistan than Pakistan.

 
My 3 greatest Pakistani sportsmen in the following order

Jahangir Khan (squash)
Shahbaz senior (Hockey)
Imran Khan (Cricket)

Shahbaz is the most underrated guy in the history of Pakistani sports.
 
I saw him play on telly a few times and yes, he has a good case for greatest ever sportsman.

Just because you saw him in your time doesn't make his case any better. Ali is the greatest based on facts though and you can't deny how big a household name he was in the UK as well.
 
My 3 greatest Pakistani sportsmen in the following order

Jahangir Khan (squash)
Shahbaz senior (Hockey)
Imran Khan (Cricket)

Shahbaz is the most underrated guy in the history of Pakistani sports.

Just to add, For me Shahbaz is the greatest hockey player of all time.
World cup winning captain of 1994 world cup.
Player of the tournament of both 1990 (in which Pakistan came second) and 1994 world cup and the biggest impact player of 1992 Barcelona Olympics (Pakistan got Bronze).

That was a true LEGEND who is disowned by Pakistan. Called as the 'Maradona' of Hockey.
Only if we had spent money on Hockey and other sports like cricket. As an example; The total no of of AustroTurfs in whole Pakistan is less than a club of Holland. Sooo pathetic!
 
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Does anyone outside of Pakistan or may be India know who Jahangir Khan is?

Your deficiency in knowledge and ignorance does not change the fact that he exists and has all those records. I'm not asking if he is the most famous sportsman ever. I don't care about that. Please stick to the question. Being the greatest sportsman has nothing to do with fame or notoriety for that matter.
 
My 3 greatest Pakistani sportsmen in the following order

Jahangir Khan (squash)
Shahbaz senior (Hockey)
Imran Khan (Cricket)

Shahbaz is the most underrated guy in the history of Pakistani sports.

Frankly, even he makes a good competition for the greatest sportsman case and it is a travesty to see how underrated he is.
 
Making this thread has made me realize how dire the current Pakistan sport situation is, at one time, we were dominating some of the major sports of the world by a mile. Now, we are at the bottom. What's changed? Very unfortunate.
 
My top 3 list of greatest sportsman including pro-wrestling ever:

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Jahangir Khan

3. Brazilian Ronaldo

4. Roger Federer / Don Bradman / Imran Khan

5. Ric Flair
 
I have no clue who he is

Is cricket the only sport you follow? Jahangir Khan is a household name among Pakistanis living in Pakistan known for his hard work and absolutely brutal workout regimes before working out was even a thing. It is his legacy in fact that is most appealing, how he was never fit to be a squash player in the first place because of a medical problem, let alone end up being the greatest sportsman of all time. And it's a very emotional story at that, he swore at the dead body of his brother to fulfill his brothers dream of becoming the best ever squash player (who himself was one of the bests).
 
For sure he is the greatest Sport person of all time. To bad he represented a Sport that no one really cares about. Some would say that Rustom-e-Zamana Haji Ghulam Muhammad also known as Gama Pehelwan was the greatest Sports person of all time:shafiq2.
 
My top 3 list of greatest sportsman including pro-wrestling ever:

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Jahangir Khan

3. Brazilian Ronaldo

4. Roger Federer / Don Bradman / Imran Khan

5. Ric Flair

I normally wouldn't agree with a cricketer being on a greatest sportsman list, especially Tendulkar but the Don makes it because of how he dominated sport and how the next best was so far behind.

IK too has a great story and good stats but IDK if he makes it. The most inspiring story, IMO is Jahangirs. It's a total miracle he ended up being a squash player in the first place when doctors had written off a career in sport in his teens.
 
Is cricket the only sport you follow? Jahangir Khan is a household name among Pakistanis living in Pakistan known for his hard work and absolutely brutal workout regimes before working out was even a thing. It is his legacy in fact that is most appealing, how he was never fit to be a squash player in the first place because of a medical problem, let alone end up being the greatest sportsman of all time. And it's a very emotional story at that, he swore at the dead body of his brother to fulfill his brothers dream of becoming the best ever squash player (who himself was one of the bests).

No, I follow Basketball, Football/Soccer, Baseball and a little bit of Ice Hockey.
 
No, I follow Basketball, Football/Soccer, Baseball and a little bit of Ice Hockey.

Well, watch a documentary on the great man or read a book on how him. And while you're at it, check out Jansher Khan too, who is unarguably the second greatest squash player ever, also from Pakistan.
 
Making this thread has made me realize how dire the current Pakistan sport situation is, at one time, we were dominating some of the major sports of the world by a mile. Now, we are at the bottom. What's changed? Very unfortunate.

Corruption is the biggest issue, these sports bodies do not get behind the talent and tend to spend the money on themselves rather then providing basic necessitates or investing in resources which would help elevate the sportsman. For example, Amir Khan has done more for Boxing in Pakistan then the governing body there; opened an academy recently, check out his facebook page think he posted some pictures today but beyond that he has promoted the sport heavily in the country and has tried to help as much as he can.

But a talent like Muhammad Waseem literally forged a glittering amateur career (by pakistan standards) based on his raw talent and determination! he'd have medaled at the Olympics to but due to various political issues was unable to participate. Anyhow thanks to Allah promoter from korea saw realised his potential and offered him a contract which he signed immediately and it was the best thing to happen to him then get screwed repeatedly by the PBF; just ask Hussain Shah!

The good news is that ever since turning pro Waseem has looked great and his progress has been decent given his lack of pro experience but the amateur grounding is helping him a great deal as well, he has taken on bigger challenges then you'd expect so early in his career but the risk has paid of because he is now in the top 10 WBC rankings. With his recent showings the government has also shown him a bit of support and provided funds so he could forge a training camp for upcoming fights, he has been to the US and trained with Jeff Mayweather who's a decent trainer, just being around the Mayweathers would benefit him given their foundation of knowledge when it comes to boxing.

So all is not lost and he is someone you should follow and support beyond cricket, I have faith Waseem will become Pakistan's first world champion in Boxing
 
Just to add, For me Shahbaz is the greatest hockey player of all time.
World cup winning captain of 1994 world cup.
Player of the tournament of both 1990 (in which Pakistan came second) and 1994 world cup and the biggest impact player of 1992 Barcelona Olympics (Pakistan got Bronze).

That was a true LEGEND who is disowned by Pakistan. Called as the 'Maradona' of Hockey.
Only if we had spent money on Hockey and other sports like cricket. As an example; The total no of of AustroTurfs in whole Pakistan is less than a club of Holland. Sooo pathetic!


This Year PM house got approval of 13 Crore Rupees annual budget for Tea only.


Samiullah, Hasan Sardar, Sohail Abass, Waseem Ahmad etc etc. We produced more than a dozen world renowned hockey players. At one time our Hockey team was filled with ATG's of Hockey just like Windies 70's 80's Cricket Team.


Consider myself unlucky not to watch flying horse run.
 
I normally wouldn't agree with a cricketer being on a greatest sportsman list, especially Tendulkar but the Don makes it because of how he dominated sport and how the next best was so far behind.

IK too has a great story and good stats but IDK if he makes it. The most inspiring story, IMO is Jahangirs. It's a total miracle he ended up being a squash player in the first place when doctors had written off a career in sport in his teens.

I've not read about that, was Jhangirs case similar to Shoaib Akhtar? You just can't ignore his greatness even if you do not follow squash, his accomplishments speak out loud which is why I have him at no.2 even though I desperately want to put Tyson in my top 5. I put Imran Khan in the list because beyond his incredible feats in the sport he was cricket's first real superstar and gave it some exposure on a mainstream level, I was reading a while back someone went to the US during Khan's prime and were conversating with an American woman a little about cricket and she did not know anything about the sport but she knew who Imran Khan was; besides that, many of his peers would tell you the same when it came to his star power, flare and charisma which people connected with all around the world, even Usain Bolt was compelled to support Pakistan obviously the two W's were his favourite but he liked Imran to
 
Corruption is the biggest issue, these sports bodies do not get behind the talent and tend to spend the money on themselves rather then providing basic necessitates or investing in resources which would help elevate the sportsman. For example, Amir Khan has done more for Boxing in Pakistan then the governing body there; opened an academy recently, check out his facebook page think he posted some pictures today but beyond that he has promoted the sport heavily in the country and has tried to help as much as he can.

But a talent like Muhammad Waseem literally forged a glittering amateur career (by pakistan standards) based on his raw talent and determination! he'd have medaled at the Olympics to but due to various political issues was unable to participate. Anyhow thanks to Allah promoter from korea saw realised his potential and offered him a contract which he signed immediately and it was the best thing to happen to him then get screwed repeatedly by the PBF; just ask Hussain Shah!

The good news is that ever since turning pro Waseem has looked great and his progress has been decent given his lack of pro experience but the amateur grounding is helping him a great deal as well, he has taken on bigger challenges then you'd expect so early in his career but the risk has paid of because he is now in the top 10 WBC rankings. With his recent showings the government has also shown him a bit of support and provided funds so he could forge a training camp for upcoming fights, he has been to the US and trained with Jeff Mayweather who's a decent trainer, just being around the Mayweathers would benefit him given their foundation of knowledge when it comes to boxing.

So all is not lost and he is someone you should follow and support beyond cricket, I have faith Waseem will become Pakistan's first world champion in Boxing

Given your interest and knowledge in boxing, I always wanted to ask you about Waseem but never got the time. Anyway, great post. Sums up the problem with sport in Pakistan and how citizens themselves (and sometimes foreigners!) have to take steps to take sport further.

You know, the funny thing is, even if you do something, something big but you are not a cricketer, you go unheard. Perhaps the biggest example is Shahbaz senior who is unarguably the greatest hockey player ever. And so many others, like that guy who just recently won the snooker world Cup, or another guy that became Pakistan and Aussie No.1 for badminton but never eve got a mention. I blame the Government for this. Not promoting young talent is as bad as defamation in my view.
 
I've not read about that, was Jhangirs case similar to Shoaib Akhtar? You just can't ignore his greatness even if you do not follow squash, his accomplishments speak out loud which is why I have him at no.2 even though I desperately want to put Tyson in my top 5. I put Imran Khan in the list because beyond his incredible feats in the sport he was cricket's first real superstar and gave it some exposure on a mainstream level, I was reading a while back someone went to the US during Khan's prime and were conversating with an American woman a little about cricket and she did not know anything about the sport but she knew who Imran Khan was; besides that, many of his peers would tell you the same when it came to his star power, flare and charisma which people connected with all around the world, even Usain Bolt was compelled to support Pakistan obviously the two W's were his favourite but he liked Imran to

I'm not entirely sure about Akhtars case but I remember watching a documentary on Jahangir Khan and if I remember correctly, his doctors had ordered his father to stop him from playing hockey because it could be life threatening for him. However, out of his love for the sport, he continued to play in secrecy from his father. His passion for the sport however took a real turn when his brother died (and if I'm not wrong, it happened while playing as he got a heart attack). That really changed his perspective towaeds the sport and swore on the dead body of his brother to cement his name in history.
 
In all honesty if cricket was more popular, am sure Don Bradman would have a strong case for having the GOAT sportsman title due to being so ridiculously ahead of his contemporarys. Probably the same reason for this Jahangir Khan guy also not being the GOAT since squash simply isn't a high profile sport.

I think the title belongs to Muhammad Ali.
 
Given your interest and knowledge in boxing, I always wanted to ask you about Waseem but never got the time. Anyway, great post. Sums up the problem with sport in Pakistan and how citizens themselves (and sometimes foreigners!) have to take steps to take sport further.

You know, the funny thing is, even if you do something, something big but you are not a cricketer, you go unheard. Perhaps the biggest example is Shahbaz senior who is unarguably the greatest hockey player ever. And so many others, like that guy who just recently won the snooker world Cup, or another guy that became Pakistan and Aussie No.1 for badminton but never eve got a mention. I blame the Government for this. Not promoting young talent is as bad as defamation in my view.

With Amir being of Pak origin he has sought of kept Boxing in the public eye in Pakistan and he's always there whether it's helping the needy or setting up an academy etc and I believe some channels in Pakistan have covered his fights during the prime of his career as well? so the people there do have a love for Boxing and Muhammad Ali did his bit to elevate the sport during his time and we have to mention Hussain Shah as well for raising the profile with his Olympic Bronze medal. So the product of all of this is Muhammad Waseem and he's done well to get this far on his own, if he does do well further I have faith the people of Pakistan will get behind him, they love boxing a lot more then it looks on paper it's just that their fandom has not been exploited enough due to not producing any world level star until now.

But that's mostly down to the incompetency of the PBF, it's cliche to say this but there are some amazing warriors out there in Pakistan but a focused effort needs to be made in order to unearth them and develop them further. I hear there are some really tough guys and gals for that matter! in places such as Lyari, Quetta etc in 2004 Olympics a record number of Pakistani Boxer's qualified; a total of 5!!!!! it is beyond me how neither medaled but it's another point which advocates that raw talent which is not being elevated or supported, Boxing can be for Pakistan in the Olympics what Hockey use to be and then these guys should be given adequate support to progress professionally.

And I agree, those names in other sports could do with a bit more support as well! but they suffer from the same issues which plague the PBF as well , I really do not know how to provide a solution; many seem to say the root cause is the leadership and am not that familiar with Pakistani politics so can't say who is the best option but since certain folk have had their turns I wouldn't mind giving IK a chance to sort things out
 
In all honesty if cricket was more popular, am sure Don Bradman would have a strong case for having the GOAT sportsman title due to being so ridiculously ahead of his contemporarys. Probably the same reason for this Jahangir Khan guy also not being the GOAT since squash simply isn't a high profile sport.

I think the title belongs to Muhammad Ali.

Boxing has suffered from great periods decline when it came to popularity but Ali really elevated it, if you leave the sport in a better state then what you found it should be factored in because the individual popularity of a sport ought to vary for various reasons when compared to each other. And safe to say both the Don and Jahangir elevated their respective sports, in that regard they don't measure up to Ali given his worldwide appeal and that's why they rank below him in my list but in terms of accomplishments are right up there.
 
With Amir being of Pak origin he has sought of kept Boxing in the public eye in Pakistan and he's always there whether it's helping the needy or setting up an academy etc and I believe some channels in Pakistan have covered his fights during the prime of his career as well? so the people there do have a love for Boxing and Muhammad Ali did his bit to elevate the sport during his time and we have to mention Hussain Shah as well for raising the profile with his Olympic Bronze medal. So the product of all of this is Muhammad Waseem and he's done well to get this far on his own, if he does do well further I have faith the people of Pakistan will get behind him, they love boxing a lot more then it looks on paper it's just that their fandom has not been exploited enough due to not producing any world level star until now.

But that's mostly down to the incompetency of the PBF, it's cliche to say this but there are some amazing warriors out there in Pakistan but a focused effort needs to be made in order to unearth them and develop them further. I hear there are some really tough guys and gals for that matter! in places such as Lyari, Quetta etc in 2004 Olympics a record number of Pakistani Boxer's qualified; a total of 5!!!!! it is beyond me how neither medaled but it's another point which advocates that raw talent which is not being elevated or supported, Boxing can be for Pakistan in the Olympics what Hockey use to be and then these guys should be given adequate support to progress professionally.

And I agree, those names in other sports could do with a bit more support as well! but they suffer from the same issues which plague the PBF as well , I really do not know how to provide a solution; many seem to say the root cause is the leadership and am not that familiar with Pakistani politics so can't say who is the best option but since certain folk have had their turns I wouldn't mind giving IK a chance to sort things out

And that is the trouble really, there is no solution. However, one thing is a given, if IK comes to power, the sports situation in Pakistan is bound to improve because he is the only political who is so vocal about how Pakistan was so great in sports before (or in general) and I'm sure he would make a change. Come down to Pakistan and cast your vote next elections Shazzy!
 
Boxing has suffered from great periods decline when it came to popularity but Ali really elevated it, if you leave the sport in a better state then what you found it should be factored in because the individual popularity of a sport ought to vary for various reasons when compared to each other. And safe to say both the Don and Jahangir elevated their respective sports, in that regard they don't measure up to Ali given his worldwide appeal and that's why they rank below him in my list but in terms of accomplishments are right up there.
Definitely. I'll be honest, I had no idea who this Jahangir Khan is and that for me personally is also the reason why he cannot be rated the best, even tho he was from what I've read now, ridiculously good. Problem is what you've highlighted, it's simply not a sport with an appeal as vast as boxing, even tho he was amazing in his own right.

Boxing overall ATM is my personal favourite sport and it's why am a bit biased.
 
Everyone knew who he was despite the lack of popularity when it came to certain sports compared to the national ones he still bought attention to boxing from every territory. Ali has also visited Pakistan twice. Muhammad Ali participated in fourth South Asian Games in 1989 in Islamabad as a special guest. His visit here was no less than an honor for Pakistanis. He visited Lahore’s Kinniard College in 1988 where he met and took pictures with students. He also met with common citizens during his visits. PTV use to cover Ali's fights in Pakistan.
"

I think you misunderstood my post. All I meant was that just like the lack of his sport's popularity in Pakistan shouldn't detract from Muhammad Ali achievements, similarly squash's popularity or lack of it shouldn't detract from Jehangir Khans achievements. I don't know enough about the technicalities of boxing to comment on Muhammad Ali the boxer but at least from a layman's perspective I don't consider him to be the greatest athlete of all time. His popularity was due to a combination of factors including his showmanship, his religious and political views, the political climate of his country and its influence on the world. He has a strong case for being the greatest sportsman of all time but would have many competitors for the title of greatest athlete.
 
Ali at Huston Astrodome (Against Terrell & Cleveland Williams) was probably the greatest ever in terms of superiority in his own sports. Jahangir, Ronnie, Kasparov are outstanding as well, but it could be debated what they would have done in other generation, but I don't think any boxer of any generation (so far) can match Ali at 25.
 
I think you misunderstood my post. All I meant was that just like the lack of his sport's popularity in Pakistan shouldn't detract from Muhammad Ali achievements, similarly squash's popularity or lack of it shouldn't detract from Jehangir Khans achievements. I don't know enough about the technicalities of boxing to comment on Muhammad Ali the boxer but at least from a layman's perspective I don't consider him to be the greatest athlete of all time. His popularity was due to a combination of factors including his showmanship, his religious and political views, the political climate of his country and its influence on the world. He has a strong case for being the greatest sportsman of all time but would have many competitors for the title of greatest athlete.

Boxing wasn't Pakistan's national sport yet majority knew who he was over there, Ali helped elevate the sport in places like Pakistan all around the globe. What do you mean by greatest "athlete" do you speak of pure accomplishments? Are you questioning what Ali achieved? And while that showmanship certainly helped his popularity what accounted for superstardom was backing it up in the ring, the man would predict which round he would beat his opponent for crying out loud!

What Jahangir achieved was unreal and not taking anything away from him or the sport of squash which is why I rank him at no.2, Ali is the greatest on every level no.1 without a doubt though
 
Ali at Huston Astrodome (Against Terrell & Cleveland Williams) was probably the greatest ever in terms of superiority in his own sports. Jahangir, Ronnie, Kasparov are outstanding as well, but it could be debated what they would have done in other generation, but I don't think any boxer of any generation (so far) can match Ali at 25.

The Ali who fought Cleveland Williams is indeed invincible, no one would have beaten him. What many folk don't realise is that those memorable fights he had against Frazier and Foreman were after a very long period of inactivity and during a time when Ali was past his peak! I'd give Marciano/Tyson a chance against that Ali but not the one before the suspension
 
If greatness was all about pure sporting performance and achievements then He makes a good case. You can say the same about Don Bradman too .There were some kind of studies that showed that his achievements (99.98) towered over his peers in a way no Sportsman did over his peers. Michael Phelps and Usain bolt too are alternatives.

But you also have to look at a sportsman as a Symbol, how he inspired people not just his own country , but worldwide. By that logic Muhammed Ali is still a cut above everyone else.
 
I think Major Dhyanchand has a strong case as well.The guy was simply phenomenal on the field
 
I think Major Dhyanchand has a strong case as well.The guy was simply phenomenal on the field

Statistically/achievement wise Vishwanathan Anand towers over any other Indian sportsperson. But chess is after all a dull sport .
 
Statistically/achievement wise Vishwanathan Anand towers over any other Indian sportsperson. But chess is after all a dull sport .

I'm not just talking about stats otherwise Bradman and Jahangir towers above the rest.I'm talking about the influence the particular sportsman had on the field and how he single handedly took his team to new heights.Sure India had a couple of brilliant hockey players in the team but Dhyanchand was something else.His on field exploits are a stuff of legend now and to think of the background he belonged from with absolutely zero facilities, there's no shred of a doubt that he is among the greatest ever.
 
I'm not just talking about stats otherwise Bradman and Jahangir towers above the rest.I'm talking about the influence the particular sportsman had on the field and how he single handedly took his team to new heights.Sure India had a couple of brilliant hockey players in the team but Dhyanchand was something else.His on field exploits are a stuff of legend now and to think of the background he belonged from with absolutely zero facilities, there's no shred of a doubt that he is among the greatest ever.

Stop trying to sugar coat that turncoat no one has ever heard off, Mary Kom had it harder then all your fake sportsman combined; her rise and story is truly inspirational
 
Let me make it clear once and all, a particular sportsmans impact on the support or th e world population or his fame should not be counted. Just his statistical achievements. And perhaps how he had to fight through.
 
Mary Kom fought far more out of the ring than inside, but my example was about pure sporting achievements. Don't be so ignorant . Dhyan chand is in no way overrated. He was the subcontinents greatest sportsman in the per-independance era. . And all the praise for him comes from the western world and his exploits in the 1936 berlin olympics.

He was so good that in the Hockey semis of 1936 olympics, he made an angry Hitler leave the match midway because he coudn't watch Germany get crushed. There is even a legend that says he was offered a position in the German military later by Hitler, given that Hitler considered Indians as aryans too .
 
Let me make it clear once and all, a particular sportsmans impact on the support or th e world population or his fame should not be counted. Just his statistical achievements. And perhaps how he had to fight through.

I think it should be counted. All sports are not equal, therefore it is wrong to compare sportsmen across sports.
 
There is even a legend that says he was offered a position in the German military later by Hitler, given that Hitler considered Indians as aryans too .

As you agree..that is a made up story and in fact lowers the status of dhyanchand if such fake stories are circulated.
 
Squash isn't a relevant enough sport. Even in this internet age, no one has heard of the current #1 Grégory Gaultier .. so one can imagine how many would have heard of Jahangir Khan.
 
He ticks every box besides the global mainstream appeal, the greatest without a doubt was Muhammad Ali

First name that comes to mind when anyone talks about the greatest/most iconic sports personality of all time - Muhammad Ali reigns supreme, and no one comes close.
 
First name that comes to mind when anyone talks about the greatest/most iconic sports personality of all time - Muhammad Ali reigns supreme, and no one comes close.

Without a doubt the greatest sportsman ever, in a league of his own; in terms of accomplishments though Jahangir does come close to matching Ali's feats in the squared circle
 
This Year PM house got approval of 13 Crore Rupees annual budget for Tea only.


Samiullah, Hasan Sardar, Sohail Abass, Waseem Ahmad etc etc. We produced more than a dozen world renowned hockey players. At one time our Hockey team was filled with ATG's of Hockey just like Windies 70's 80's Cricket Team.


Consider myself unlucky not to watch flying horse run.

In 1994 Pakistan was the world champion in 4 sports. And not bad in some other sports like Boxing, Shooting, Volleyball, badminton etc.

Did all the talent vanish in 20 years time that now we are pathetic in every sport? I refuse to believe it. Other countries moved on, their system is better, training facilities are better, technological use is better. On the other side Pakistan still looks for raw talent but the conditions to channel that talent are just pathetic.
 
Making this thread has made me realize how dire the current Pakistan sport situation is, at one time, we were dominating some of the major sports of the world by a mile. Now, we are at the bottom. What's changed? Very unfortunate.

Amir Atlas Kan (u-13 junior squash world champion, u 15 champion, u-17 champion, u-19 champion) and look where is he now. In the world of technology and advancements today, talent alone is at best useful at junior levels. Channeling the talent is the real deal.

Aisam ul Haq always cried that that there is no support and facilities in Pakistan for tennis. He said he was fortunate that he trained in India since a young age due to his financial background while better players are ruined.

My friend who got selected for u-17 football team for Pakistan said there is special talent of football in Liyari and Blochistan areas but no one gives a damn and with time players lose interest as their is no future of football in Pakistan. Pakistan last month was 193 in football rankings.

There was this swimmer girl Hooriya in mid 2000s who was breaking National and Asian records at the age of 13 but where is she now?

There are many other examples. In Pakistan only sport we spend money on is cricket and there too we are below average. It is heartbreaking that other countries are getting better with time and Pakistan is going worse and worse.
 
Amir Atlas Kan (u-13 junior squash world champion, u 15 champion, u-17 champion, u-19 champion) and look where is he now. In the world of technology and advancements today, talent alone is at best useful at junior levels. Channeling the talent is the real deal.

Aisam ul Haq always cried that that there is no support and facilities in Pakistan for tennis. He said he was fortunate that he trained in India since a young age due to his financial background while better players are ruined.

My friend who got selected for u-17 football team for Pakistan said there is special talent of football in Liyari and Blochistan areas but no one gives a damn and with time players lose interest as their is no future of football in Pakistan. Pakistan last month was 193 in football rankings.

There was this swimmer girl Hooriya in mid 2000s who was breaking National and Asian records at the age of 13 but where is she now?

There are many other examples. In Pakistan only sport we spend money on is cricket and there too we are below average. It is heartbreaking that other countries are getting better with time and Pakistan is going worse and worse.

Heat breaking to say the very least.
 
I think it should be counted. All sports are not equal, therefore it is wrong to compare sportsmen across sports.

My answer is in your own post itself. Since all sports are not equal, it would be unfair to compare a football player and a snooker player on fame because Football has 100 times the audience snooker does. However, you can compare their stats - which is what we are doing.
 
My answer is in your own post itself. Since all sports are not equal, it would be unfair to compare a football player and a snooker player on fame because Football has 100 times the audience snooker does. However, you can compare their stats - which is what we are doing.

How can we compare their stats when they come from different sports? We dont even compare stats between ODI and Test, so why even compare cricket with football or squash. Just a crude example..if a bollywood star wins the best actor 10 times can we say that he is the greatest actor across hollywood and every other film industry? Unless you come with a method to compare squash with other sports, it is illogical and an exercise in fantasy to compare a squash legend with legends from far more competitive sports.
 
How can we compare their stats when they come from different sports? We dont even compare stats between ODI and Test, so why even compare cricket with football or squash. Just a crude example..if a bollywood star wins the best actor 10 times can we say that he is the greatest actor across hollywood and every other film industry? Unless you come with a method to compare squash with other sports, it is illogical and an exercise in fantasy to compare a squash legend with legends from far more competitive sports.

:facepalm: We're comparing the amount of matches won, streaks, dominance, least matches lost, most tournaments won, etc - which is all pretty logical. :facepalm:
 
:facepalm: We're comparing the amount of matches won, streaks, dominance, least matches lost, most tournaments won, etc - which is all pretty logical. :facepalm:

Oh, then the thread title poses the wrong question. It should be "Did anyone dominate their chosen sport like JK did?". Because that can be answered with stats.

Whether JK was the greatest sportsman ever? That is a false question. Just because someone dominate his field like crazy does not make him the greatest ever across every field, especially when other fields are far more competitive.
 
My top 3 list of greatest sportsman including pro-wrestling ever:

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Jahangir Khan

3. Brazilian Ronaldo

4. Roger Federer / Don Bradman / Imran Khan

5. Ric Flair

The Brazilian Ronaldo isn't even in the conversation for the greatest ever footballer.
Not sure how Ric Flair makes the list.

For me it is Messi. He is the greatest of all time in the most popular sport in the world and so the most competitive sport in the world.
 
Greatest is a subjective term.
However Jahangir Khan holds the Guinness World Record for consecutive wins in ANY Competitive sport at ANY level (Jehangir's wins were at the TOP level).
 
In 1994 Pakistan was the world champion in 4 sports. And not bad in some other sports like Boxing, Shooting, Volleyball, badminton etc.

Did all the talent vanish in 20 years time that now we are pathetic in every sport? I refuse to believe it. Other countries moved on, their system is better, training facilities are better, technological use is better. On the other side Pakistan still looks for raw talent but the conditions to channel that talent are just pathetic.


I agree with you.

Without systems and without investment we can't compete others. This is another failure of government.


Compare number of Squash Courts in Pakistan to those in UK. Compare number of Astroturf's in Pakistan to those in Netherlands.


First of all you need places near your home to play and than if you have the passion you will only go for it if you see a viable professional career incase you are good enough.


Our Priorities in spending is very poor, our tax collection is very poor, our exports are very poor, loans and foreign remittances are our lifeline hence we do not have money to invest in Sports.

Law and Order is poor, reputation of systems in place are very bad filled with Corruption and lack of merit hence we cannot attract investments of local or international Sponsors.
 
Statistically/achievement wise Vishwanathan Anand towers over any other Indian sportsperson. But chess is after all a dull sport .

Anand is no match for our youngster norwegian beauty Magnus Carlsen.
 
Squash is one of the toughest games out there. I have played football at the highest junior level here in Norway but played squash a couple of times and that felt alot tougher than football. Also ideal for people who want fast fat loss.
 
Anand is no match for our youngster norwegian beauty Magnus Carlsen.

Anand was not even good at his peak.

he defeated Topolov and Gelfand, but Kasprov was the undisputed king of that era.
(though i dislike kasporov and like Vishy, but vishy is not even top ten chess player of all time).
 
Anand is no match for our youngster norwegian beauty Magnus Carlsen.
That's because he is well past his prime.Check out his overall record and you would realize he is amongst the best ever.
 
That's because he is well past his prime.Check out his overall record and you would realize he is amongst the best ever.

He was not good at his peak:
chess01.JPG

(due the nature of the chess, too many draws at top level, its exponentially hard to get lead, i.e, Wesley So is just 4 points above Vishy, but strength and performance wise, he is well ahead of him)
 
Dont agree that sport popularity and fan following should be the biggest measure of greatness. If that is the case than top 10 greatest sportsmen should be footballers. The most competitive and most played sports with largest fan following. Even in a country like Pakistan which is 193 in football ranking, football is the most/second most played sport. I can say for Islamabad that football is played more than cricket.
 
Squash is one of the toughest games out there. I have played football at the highest junior level here in Norway but played squash a couple of times and that felt alot tougher than football. Also ideal for people who want fast fat loss.

Yep, I used to a very good football player in my area. I tried playing squash too but find it difficult and tough. Just wasnt good enough for that highly demanding game. May be this is one reason of its lack of popularity that it is tough!!
 
The Brazilian Ronaldo isn't even in the conversation for the greatest ever footballer.
Not sure how Ric Flair makes the list.

For me it is Messi. He is the greatest of all time in the most popular sport in the world and so the most competitive sport in the world.

Who is Messi?

Also, with regards to competitiveness and popularity. Keep your ignorance and lack of knowledge to yourself :kohli
 
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Who is Messi?

Also, with regards to competitiveness and popularity. Keep your ignorance and lack of knowledge to yourself :kohli

Kind of ironic that you would ask who Messi is and then accuse me of ignorance. What is the most popular sport in the world then?
 
Kind of ironic that you would ask who Messi is and then accuse me of ignorance. What is the most popular sport in the world then?

What's ironic is that you are unable to apply that same logic to your initial post which vindicates your shocking levels of ignorance
 
What do you mean by greatest "athlete" do you speak of pure accomplishments?

I meant the physical fitness aspect of the sport which does not rely on mass appeal or the ability to popularize the sport. Muhammad Ali certainly has a strong case for being the greatest sportsman ever but in terms of pure athletic ability, fitness and the ability of extract the maximum out of the human body over a sustained period I would rate Jehangir on par with him or with any other great sportsman.
 
I meant the physical fitness aspect of the sport which does not rely on mass appeal or the ability to popularize the sport. Muhammad Ali certainly has a strong case for being the greatest sportsman ever but in terms of pure athletic ability, fitness and the ability of extract the maximum out of the human body over a sustained period I would rate Jehangir on par with him or with any other great sportsman.

I think you have no idea of what is required when it comes to Boxing fitness, nothing compares at all; it is easier to play squash for a prolonged period rather then absorb physical punishment to your head and body
 
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