GenericBrand
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Are you serious?
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Are you serious?
In fairness the Ottomans did a lot of things contrary to Islam...the Tanzimat reforms themselves were completely unislamic...but yeah its a good question...well it sounds like they had a hard time for the most part being accused of devil worship...i don't know their history but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them did convert or were killed for being heretics...
In terms of defining a dhimmi this is from Reliance of the Traveler:
11.1
A formal agreement of protection is made with citizens who are:
-1- Jews;
-2- Christians;
-3- Zoroastrians;
-4- Samarians and Sabians, if their religions do not respectively contradict the fundamental bases of Judaism and Christianity;
-5- and those who adhere to the religion of Abraham or one of the other prophets (upon whom be blessings and peace).
11.2
Such an agreement may not be effected with those who are idol worshippers or those who do not have a Sacred Book or something that could have been a Book.
But as you correctly point out Muhammad Bin Qasim did impose Jizya on Hindus and Buddhists...Abu Hanifa i believe was inclusive of hindus paying Jizya for instance...Shafi and Hanbal however seemed to go with the above definition...
just saying
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disgusting ideology where ever they get this from!
jaguarjack
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please tell me you were being sarcastic
Cpt. Rishwat
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How about Ayatollah Khomeini? Japs, Russians, Chinese, Colombians and Germans also have been admirable adversaries in recent history. ISIS look like amateurs in comparison.
just a basic intelligence test to see who dances to the tune of western media agenda, you failed
Donal Cozzie
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Like it or not these guys arent only damaging the areas they go through, they're causing a fair amount of concern amongst some here and in the UK.
I'm not at all saying that we're suffering more than the poor souls caught in their path before anyone suggests that,
Back to the point, basically the fact that some of these guys come from here and the UK is terrifying to some people. How long before these guys come back "home" and start spreading their ideology here? Its already happening but will it become more widespread?? Will they start trying to destroy things and launch jihad in the UK?? These are the questions that are frightening some people.
Their actions are severely damaging attitudes towards Muslims too, some are close minded enough to tar Muslims under the same brush as ISIS, but whats really irritating the rational non-bigoted sections of society here is the lack of any condemnation from any Muslim body or group. It gives some people the impression that Muslims arent really making any effort to stop it. Now I know there was a thread started here on this, but IMO there shouldnt be any reason why these atrocities shouldnt be condemned by all sections of society. Others have accused Muslims of hypocrisy as Gaza has drawn widespread protests (and rightfully so) but their has been zero protests against ISIS...
Maybe there has been widespread criticism amongst Muslim Institutions but the media just isnt giving them attention?? Can someone enlighten me?? Because while I'm not foolish enough to look negatively towards Muslims because of ISIS, there are others who are....
I'm not at all saying that we're suffering more than the poor souls caught in their path before anyone suggests that,
Back to the point, basically the fact that some of these guys come from here and the UK is terrifying to some people. How long before these guys come back "home" and start spreading their ideology here? Its already happening but will it become more widespread?? Will they start trying to destroy things and launch jihad in the UK?? These are the questions that are frightening some people.
Their actions are severely damaging attitudes towards Muslims too, some are close minded enough to tar Muslims under the same brush as ISIS, but whats really irritating the rational non-bigoted sections of society here is the lack of any condemnation from any Muslim body or group. It gives some people the impression that Muslims arent really making any effort to stop it. Now I know there was a thread started here on this, but IMO there shouldnt be any reason why these atrocities shouldnt be condemned by all sections of society. Others have accused Muslims of hypocrisy as Gaza has drawn widespread protests (and rightfully so) but their has been zero protests against ISIS...
Maybe there has been widespread criticism amongst Muslim Institutions but the media just isnt giving them attention?? Can someone enlighten me?? Because while I'm not foolish enough to look negatively towards Muslims because of ISIS, there are others who are....
Donal Cozzie
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When did I ask for an apology??
All I asked was why there hasnt been widespread criticism of ISIS?? And when did I say I held you or anyone other than the psychopaths killing people responsible??
Finally, I'm not the one who is looking at ISIS and thinking "all Muslims are evil" or any of that nonsense, Read my post and you'll realise I have absolutely 0 ill faith towards Islam or Muslims, I've just noticed others on articles commenting their concerns, which I relayed above.
I don't think these guys are gonna be returning to the UK...why would they return to the land of Kufr in favor of their Caliphate...
I saw an interesting interview with a dutch fighter and he was asked what he would do back in Holland when he returns...and he said that he is fighting to save Syrians...his problem isn't with Holland...he said his obligation is to protect his fellow man from imminent attack and he actually made a convincing argument...
Its worth asking actually what has happened with all the British Muslims that fought the Serbs with Britains blessing?...I don't think being a danger in Syria automatically means you will be one in Britain when you return...
There were actually people distributing literature encouraging people to join the Caliphate...and this was being done in Londono openly...part of me doesn't mind...if someone is that way inclined then its a good thing they are leaving....
I saw an interesting interview with a dutch fighter and he was asked what he would do back in Holland when he returns...and he said that he is fighting to save Syrians...his problem isn't with Holland...he said his obligation is to protect his fellow man from imminent attack and he actually made a convincing argument...
Its worth asking actually what has happened with all the British Muslims that fought the Serbs with Britains blessing?...I don't think being a danger in Syria automatically means you will be one in Britain when you return...
There were actually people distributing literature encouraging people to join the Caliphate...and this was being done in Londono openly...part of me doesn't mind...if someone is that way inclined then its a good thing they are leaving....
OZGOD
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I don't know mate, as a teacher you will probably know that sometimes kids will tell the truth 90% of the time so that the 10% of the time they lie it becomes more believable. I know I used to do that. It's a common propaganda tactic. Be truthful most of the time so they swallow the big lie. I think that ISIS, like all organisations, releases information when and as it suits their purposes. When they deny something it is probably because it is in their interest to do so, whether it is true or not. I would be very careful of using precedent when it comes to them.
An example is that beheading video. Most people probably didn't watch it and I don't blame them, but I was one of the unfortunates who did. The video was very well produced and put together. It looked like a seamless production but if you look at it it's clear that it was filmed in 3 parts at separate times: a) the 3rd part, where the British guy threatens the 2nd journalist Sotloff was probably filmed first because the British guy does not have blood on his robes which was caused by the 2nd part (the beheading); b) the 1st part, where Foley read out his scripted part, looked to have been filmed multiple times, because there is a lack of continuity with the 2nd part; and c) the 2nd part which would have been filmed last, after all the other takes for the previous two parts.
OZGOD
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It takes a lot of courage to go into a conflict zone and report. These journalists, whether they are Western, Eastern or Martian, are one of the reasons why we have news about these conflicts. One of the reasons why coverage of the Syrian War has diminished in recent months is because it has gotten so dangerous with journalists being kidnapped. It's the same with aid workers - why do they go to places like Syria and Iraq to help other people? Why do doctors go to Ebola zones to treat people they don't even know? And when they get abducted people say things like "well they are American/European/whatever so they were asking for it".
QazzarFan
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Tbh, plenty of Muslims in influential positions have already condemned this movement. Unfortunately, extremists have the loudest voice in modern Islamic society + the usual sympathizers like s28 up there.
Some of the condemnations:
The Organization Of Islamic Cooperation: The Islamic State Has "Nothing To Do With Islam," Has Committed Crimes "That Cannot Be Tolerated."
- The Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which represents 1.4 billion Muslims in 57 countries around the world, condemned the Islamic State's persecution of of Christians and other religious minorities in Iraq, saying the "forced deportation under the threat of execution" is a "crime that cannot be tolerated."
Al-Azhar: Islamic State Is Corrupt And "A Danger To Islam."
- Al-Azhar's Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt's highest religious authority, denounced the Islamic State as a threat to Islam and said that the group both violates Sharia law and humanitarian law: "[They] give an opportunity for those who seek to harm us, to destroy us and interfere in our affairs with the [pretext of a] call to fight terrorism."
Arab League: "Strongly Denounced" The "Crimes Against Humanity" Carried Out By The Islamic State.
- Nabil al-Arabi, the Arab League Chief, denounced acts committed by the Islamic State in Iraq as "crimes against humanity," demanding that they be brought to justice. According to Al Arabiya News, he said in a statement that he "strongly denounced the crimes, killings, dispossession carried out by the terrorist (ISIS) against civilians and minorities in Iraq that have affected Christians in Mosul and Yazidis."
Turkey's Top Cleric: Islamic State's Threats Are "Hugely Damaging," "Truly Awful."
- Turkey's highest ranking cleric, Mehmet Gormez, decried the Islamic State's declaration of a "caliphate" and argued that the statements were damaging to the Muslim community. "Such declarations have no legitimacy whatsoever," Mehmet Gormez, head of the Religious Affairs Directorate, the highest religious authority in Turkey. "Since the caliphate was abolished ... there have been movements that think they can pull together the Muslim world by re-establishing a caliphate, but they have nothing to do with reality, whether from a political or legal perspective."
CAIR Repeatedly Condemned The Islamic State As "Un-Islamic And Morally Repugnant."
- The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called the terrorist group "un-Islamic and morally repugnant," noted that the Islamic State's "human rights abuses on the ground are well-documented," and called on other Muslim community leaders to speak out against the violence. CAIR reiterated the condemnation of the Islamic State as "both un-Islamic and morally repugnant." In a statement, CAIR strongly condemned the gruesome and barbaric killing of an American journalist as a violation of Islamic beliefs and of universally-accepted international norms mandating the protection of prisoners and journalists during conflicts. The Geneva Conventions, the Quran - Islam's revealed text - and the traditions (hadith) of the Prophet Muhammad all require that prisoners not be harmed in any way. There can be no excuse or justification for such criminal and bloodthirsty actions.
The Muslim Council Of Great Britain: "Violence Has No Place In Religion."
- The Muslim Council of Great Britain condemned the Islamic State's actions and expressed that they do not represent Sunni Muslims. Shuja Shafi, a member of the council also said: "Violence has no place in religion, violence has no religion. It is prohibited for people to present themselves for destruction."
The Islamic Society of North America: The Islamic State's Actions "Are To Be Denounced And Are In No Way Representative Of What Islam Actually Teaches.
- The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) released a statement denouncing the Islamic State "for its attacks on Iraq's religious minorities and the destruction of their places of worship." ISNA President Imam Mohamed Magid said, "ISIS actions against religious minorities in Iraq violate the Quranic teaching, 'Let there be no compulsion in religion' (Surat al-Baqara 2:256)," adding, "Their actions are to be denounced and are in no way representative of what Islam actually teaches."
100 Sunni And Shiite U.K. Imams: The Islamic State Is An "Illegitimate, Vicious Group."
- 100 Sunni and Shiite Imams from the U.K. came together to produce a video denouncing the Islamic State, releasing a statement that they wanted to "come together to emphasise the importance of unity in the UK and to decree ISIS as an illegitimate, vicious group who do not represent Islam in any way."
Saudi Arabia's Highest Religious Authority: Terrorists Like The Islamic State Is The "Number One Enemy Of Islam."
-Saudi Arabia's grand mufti, Abdulaziz al-Sheikh, the country's top religious authority, said that terrorism is anti-Islamic and said that groups like the Islamic State which practice violence are the "number one enemy of Islam": Extremist and militant ideas and terrorism which spread decay on Earth, destroying human civilisation, are not in any way part of Islam, but are enemy number one of Islam, and Muslims are their first victims.
Muslim Public Affairs Council: Condemned The Islamic State And Called For "Stand Against Extremism."
- The Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) released a statement condemning "the barbaric execution of American Journalist James Foley by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS)." MPAC urged "all people of conscience to take a stand against extremism" and offered condolences to Foley's family. MPAC also noted the importance of countering ISIS and other extremist groups by working "to empower the mainstream and relegate extremists to the irrelevance they deserve."
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OZGOD
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Thanks for this info QF. Provides some perspective.
OZGOD
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British woman aspires to be first female to carry out beheading of Westerner
Khadijah Dare is going for a record - to be the first woman to carry out a beheading of a Western prisoner.
British woman vows to become first female to behead western prisoner in Syria
Khadijah Dare has urged other young women from London to join her in Syria, it is thought to have converted to Islam in her mid-teens
By Martin Evans, Crime Correspondent7:03PM BST 21 Aug 2014
A female jihadist from London has vowed to become the first female to behead a western prisoner in Syria.
Khadijah Dare, who is originally from Lewisham in south east London, took to Twitter to celebrate the brutal murder of American journalist James Foley.
The 22-year-old mother of one, who moved to Syria in 2012 with her Swedish husband and Isil fighter, Abu Bakr, expressed her desire to carry out a similar execution.
Writing under the Twitter name Muhajirah fi Sham, which means ‘immigrant in Syria’, she posted a slang filled message that said: “Any links 4 da execution of da journalist plz. Allahu Akbar. UK must b shaking up ha ha. I wna b da 1st UK woman 2 kill a UK or US terorrist!(sic)”.
She recently sparked outrage when she posted a picture of her toddler son posing with an AK47 rifle.
Dare, who has urged other young women from London to join her in Syria, is thought to have converted to Islam in her mid-teens.
Earlier this year she wrote: “All da people back in Dar ul kufr [land of disbelievers] what are you waiting for ... hurry up and join da caravan to where the laws of Allah is implemented.
“No one from Lewisham has come here apart from an 18-year-old sister shame on all those people who afford fancy meals and clothes and do not make hirja [the word for Mohammad’s journey]. Shame on you.”
She is understood to have been a regular at the Lewisham Islamic Centre, which was linked to the killers of Drummer Lee Rigby. Dare later married a Turkish militant who she met in Sweden.
She has also used her Twitter account to delight in the execution of a Syrian man who had been accused of rape.
She wrote: “On da way 2 da market in Manbij [a town near Aleppo], me and sum sisters was wonderin wat da commotion was all about ... On da way back frm da market, we see da body of a young man, with blood coin his nose ... tied onto a tree.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...male-to-behead-western-prisoner-in-Syria.html
Khadijah Dare is going for a record - to be the first woman to carry out a beheading of a Western prisoner.
British woman vows to become first female to behead western prisoner in Syria
Khadijah Dare has urged other young women from London to join her in Syria, it is thought to have converted to Islam in her mid-teens
By Martin Evans, Crime Correspondent7:03PM BST 21 Aug 2014
A female jihadist from London has vowed to become the first female to behead a western prisoner in Syria.
Khadijah Dare, who is originally from Lewisham in south east London, took to Twitter to celebrate the brutal murder of American journalist James Foley.
The 22-year-old mother of one, who moved to Syria in 2012 with her Swedish husband and Isil fighter, Abu Bakr, expressed her desire to carry out a similar execution.
Writing under the Twitter name Muhajirah fi Sham, which means ‘immigrant in Syria’, she posted a slang filled message that said: “Any links 4 da execution of da journalist plz. Allahu Akbar. UK must b shaking up ha ha. I wna b da 1st UK woman 2 kill a UK or US terorrist!(sic)”.
She recently sparked outrage when she posted a picture of her toddler son posing with an AK47 rifle.
Dare, who has urged other young women from London to join her in Syria, is thought to have converted to Islam in her mid-teens.
Earlier this year she wrote: “All da people back in Dar ul kufr [land of disbelievers] what are you waiting for ... hurry up and join da caravan to where the laws of Allah is implemented.
“No one from Lewisham has come here apart from an 18-year-old sister shame on all those people who afford fancy meals and clothes and do not make hirja [the word for Mohammad’s journey]. Shame on you.”
She is understood to have been a regular at the Lewisham Islamic Centre, which was linked to the killers of Drummer Lee Rigby. Dare later married a Turkish militant who she met in Sweden.
She has also used her Twitter account to delight in the execution of a Syrian man who had been accused of rape.
She wrote: “On da way 2 da market in Manbij [a town near Aleppo], me and sum sisters was wonderin wat da commotion was all about ... On da way back frm da market, we see da body of a young man, with blood coin his nose ... tied onto a tree.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...male-to-behead-western-prisoner-in-Syria.html
CricketCartoons
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Studies have shown that males experience less pain if inflicted by a female as compared to one inflicted by a male. even when the same force is used.
Pain from a woman will hurt less : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3461591.stm
Pain from a woman will hurt less : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3461591.stm
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Gabbar Singh
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The last email ISIS sent to the Foley family:
Love how these tools who are so easily led by Western media feel able to stand in judgement of all.
I don't sympathise with ISIS simply because I know they are a construct of the West by Western intelligence agencies.
I personally know someone whose father was in the SAS and trained OBL/Al Qaeda and reckoned he was 'a good chap' you know during the time when they were being used by the West to fight a proxy war against the Russians.
Everytime ISIS do something wrong it is simply further condemnation of 100 years + of Western meddling in the Middle East.
However that doesn't mean sometimes the Law of unintended consequences can't have 'positive externalities'. One such is the conversion of Yazidis.
I don't sympathise with ISIS simply because I know they are a construct of the West by Western intelligence agencies.
I personally know someone whose father was in the SAS and trained OBL/Al Qaeda and reckoned he was 'a good chap' you know during the time when they were being used by the West to fight a proxy war against the Russians.
Everytime ISIS do something wrong it is simply further condemnation of 100 years + of Western meddling in the Middle East.
However that doesn't mean sometimes the Law of unintended consequences can't have 'positive externalities'. One such is the conversion of Yazidis.
Donal Cozzie
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Thanks for the reply mate.
Varun
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Violates the Law of Conservation of Energy.
Indiafan
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Some part of pain is also in the mind
No, he knew someone who's dad trained OBL.
You should be more smart now Ozgod because you know someone who knows someone who's dad trained OBL.
akheR
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Every "British" or "Western" (I'm sure they're all white Caucasians) jihadist who went to Syria or Iraq should not be alone to lose his citizenship, but his whole family too : when your son/brother/cousin/... decides to travel miles to cause a civil war in other countries (and a civil war means by definition that innocent families have been ripped apart), it means that they participated in the rise of the monster, and should be punished too (ideally, by death punishment, because these peoples also happen to be useless immigrants from Pakistan or Somalia).
For instance, the guy who beheaded the American journalist, do you think that he grew up under the care of well-behaved parents ?
Ironically, if we apply the ISIS ethics to ISIS fighters, wonder how many families will be affected ? For instance, an influential commander, Abu Omar al-Shishani, was born to a Christian father and a Muslim mother (it's also said that OBL's mother was an... Alawite :assad:, now that would be ironic but that's another debate).
I hope al Shishani will carry out the recommended corporal punishment on his mother, considering that by playing Jihad Joe in Syria, many mothers lost their children, and vice-versa.
May the Yazidis all accept Islam and get rid off their pagan pseudo-spiritual melting pot, and may all remaining polytheists follow the path.
For instance, the guy who beheaded the American journalist, do you think that he grew up under the care of well-behaved parents ?
Ironically, if we apply the ISIS ethics to ISIS fighters, wonder how many families will be affected ? For instance, an influential commander, Abu Omar al-Shishani, was born to a Christian father and a Muslim mother (it's also said that OBL's mother was an... Alawite :assad:, now that would be ironic but that's another debate).
I hope al Shishani will carry out the recommended corporal punishment on his mother, considering that by playing Jihad Joe in Syria, many mothers lost their children, and vice-versa.
May the Yazidis all accept Islam and get rid off their pagan pseudo-spiritual melting pot, and may all remaining polytheists follow the path.
90MPH
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IS are the worst of the worst.
Its one thing being totally intolerant of different religions and races but this group will stop at nothing to impose its warped ideology on others including mass executions.
Its one thing being totally intolerant of different religions and races but this group will stop at nothing to impose its warped ideology on others including mass executions.
mithun_minhas
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191,369 women and children were killed in Syria since 2011.
Staggering figures. May be if Men are included, could this number reach half a million?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/world/meast/syria-conflict/index.html?hpt=imi_c2
Staggering figures. May be if Men are included, could this number reach half a million?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/22/world/meast/syria-conflict/index.html?hpt=imi_c2
There is so much wrong with this post...
If I put a gun to your head and asked you to convert or die...is that a choice?...it amazes me that someone can view conversion under duress as a positive thing...
But hey these are the choices the Yazidis have...there is a difference of opinion regarding whether Yazidis are allowed to exist as they are within the state...the Christians were given the chance to pay the jizya...the Yazidis it appears have not been given that opportunity due to their polytheistic ways...if you think this is an acceptable way to increase numbers then you need help...
And the ridiculous thing is these people can't even return to their old faiths without becoming apostates and then sentenced to death...so they convert to a religion by force and then have to remain in it for life cos if they don't then they are liable to be killed...
Fair comment...but as a general thing I do feel they are proud of their massacres...they aren't interested in war crime conventions etc...they are committing crimes openly...but agreed it isn't without purpose...they want to spread fear...i mean who puts heads on a stick?...
Chickenkorma
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I wonder how you would feel when someone did a "positive externality" on you and your family and jammed a rifle into that sorry excuse of a waste regurgitating hole you call a mouth.
I love VICE/VICE NEWS. I remember following them since their 2nd ever video when they only had VICE.
Saeed
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Iraq conflict: Diyala Sunni mosque attack kills dozens
Mindset of such groups is the reason peace is no where near in sight.
DiamondDigger
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What drives Pakistani youths in the West towards groups such as ISIS?
Let me start by giving you a little background. I live in Toronto which is very a multicultural city. A couple of years ago one of best friends who was very outgoing and spend pretty much every weekend clubbing and drinking had a change of heart. He started growing a beard, spent a lot of time in one particular mosque and also always wore a long rope similar to what Arabs wear. His whole attitude pretty much changed.
After a while he even started preaching to random people about Islam and eventually convinced me to go along with him to this Mosque which he was very fond of, now this Mosque I am not going to name but was in a shady part of town in a basement of a extremely old and wore out apartment building. I went a few times with him and each time after prayer about 15 to 20 all young men except the preacher who was in his mid to late 30s would gather and listen to this one man talk. The first couple of times the talk was the usual stuff but after each visit it started getting really disturbing to the point where I felt so uncomfortable at what I was hearing that I relentlessly tried to reason with my friend to stop going but he was having none of it, I felt I had to do something so I contacted the Canadian intelligence agency (CSIS) and notified them about this place and the kind of things that were preached to teenagers. Long story short after insisting on meeting me they asked that they needed more evidence and if I would be willing to work with them gather what they need, I refused told them I had done my part the rest is up to the authorities they bothered me a couple of other times but eventually relented and didn't hear from them again.
After numerous other attempts to reason with him my friend and I grew apart and went our separate ways now a few days ago I learned from his parents that he travelled overseas about 9 months ago and its been more than 6 months that his family have no contact with him (he apparently told them he was going to KSA). I have no idea where he is nor am I making the claim that this is the sole reason but going through that experience really opened by eyes at how much hatred and misinformation some of these so called tableghis spread and in such convincing manner that most teenagers would fall into their traps in a couple of sessions.
Let me start by giving you a little background. I live in Toronto which is very a multicultural city. A couple of years ago one of best friends who was very outgoing and spend pretty much every weekend clubbing and drinking had a change of heart. He started growing a beard, spent a lot of time in one particular mosque and also always wore a long rope similar to what Arabs wear. His whole attitude pretty much changed.
After a while he even started preaching to random people about Islam and eventually convinced me to go along with him to this Mosque which he was very fond of, now this Mosque I am not going to name but was in a shady part of town in a basement of a extremely old and wore out apartment building. I went a few times with him and each time after prayer about 15 to 20 all young men except the preacher who was in his mid to late 30s would gather and listen to this one man talk. The first couple of times the talk was the usual stuff but after each visit it started getting really disturbing to the point where I felt so uncomfortable at what I was hearing that I relentlessly tried to reason with my friend to stop going but he was having none of it, I felt I had to do something so I contacted the Canadian intelligence agency (CSIS) and notified them about this place and the kind of things that were preached to teenagers. Long story short after insisting on meeting me they asked that they needed more evidence and if I would be willing to work with them gather what they need, I refused told them I had done my part the rest is up to the authorities they bothered me a couple of other times but eventually relented and didn't hear from them again.
After numerous other attempts to reason with him my friend and I grew apart and went our separate ways now a few days ago I learned from his parents that he travelled overseas about 9 months ago and its been more than 6 months that his family have no contact with him (he apparently told them he was going to KSA). I have no idea where he is nor am I making the claim that this is the sole reason but going through that experience really opened by eyes at how much hatred and misinformation some of these so called tableghis spread and in such convincing manner that most teenagers would fall into their traps in a couple of sessions.
dzor
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Some teenagers and people may do it for a sense of belonging, the ISIS may guarentee them a new lease of life
Cpt. Rishwat
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some articles in today's papers are claiming sensationally that there are more British Muslims fighting in Syria than for the British army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-fight-in-Syria-than-in-UK-Armed-Forces.html
The claim is being made by MP Khalid Mahmoud who when I googled him got this from Wikipedia:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-fight-in-Syria-than-in-UK-Armed-Forces.html
The claim is being made by MP Khalid Mahmoud who when I googled him got this from Wikipedia:
Fastandfurious
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^Fighting in Syria is different from joining ISIS. There are many groups in Syria and some of them are legit because they've been under oppression for so long.
) Tableeghis don't talk about anything apart from spiratual stuff, There is no better example of head stuck in the sand Muslims than tableeghis, Probably confused some other groups for tableeghis.
Saeed
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Is he suggesting that that British Asians should be joining Junta(British army) that in the first place overthrew the Iraqi Government and helped destabilizing it?
Cpt. Rishwat
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I actually read this story first in a Murdoch owned paper but since it's a subscription site I didn't bother providing a link. Since they went to a subscription service their whole tone has taken a very apartheid approach which is fair enough but I don't see why I should be helping subsidise it. I'll be looking to cancel but knowing Murdoch I'm probably tied in for so many months according to this clause or that.
On the topic itself, once you get beyond the Stormfront headlines, I was actually quite impressed that almost as many Muslims signed up for the British army as to fight in Syria. But I guess they don't make good headlines.
akheR
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Information I got from Nusra/al Qaida jihadis : apparently ISIS executed Abou 'Ubayda al Maghribi, a well known figure in Raqqa, where he coordinated the security services.
He was instrumental in the death of a dozen of Nusra commanders, including the notorious Abu Khalid al-Suri, probably the best known Syrian jihadi, who was sent by Zawahiri as a mediator between Nusra and ISIS, in order to make peace between the factions - his death few months ago brutally buried any chance of reconciliation, even if there talks about a future majlis.
It's interesting to note that al Suri survived in jihads from Chechnya to Afghanistan (where he instructed OBL), but irony wanted that he had to be killed by fellow jihadis.
Anyway, the reason for al Maghribi's execution is even more interesting : as per Nusra, he was found "collaborating with British spies", in which nature, I don't know - we'll have to wait for ISIS' own explanation of the death of such seminal man.
But if indeed he was a British collaborator, it's interesting how the "high ranking" ranks have been infiltrated... let's wait & see.
He was instrumental in the death of a dozen of Nusra commanders, including the notorious Abu Khalid al-Suri, probably the best known Syrian jihadi, who was sent by Zawahiri as a mediator between Nusra and ISIS, in order to make peace between the factions - his death few months ago brutally buried any chance of reconciliation, even if there talks about a future majlis.
It's interesting to note that al Suri survived in jihads from Chechnya to Afghanistan (where he instructed OBL), but irony wanted that he had to be killed by fellow jihadis.
Anyway, the reason for al Maghribi's execution is even more interesting : as per Nusra, he was found "collaborating with British spies", in which nature, I don't know - we'll have to wait for ISIS' own explanation of the death of such seminal man.
But if indeed he was a British collaborator, it's interesting how the "high ranking" ranks have been infiltrated... let's wait & see.
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GenericBrand
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Let me know when we have converted all the Yazidis so I can yell 'Mission Successful' and throw a grand Qurbani.
just saying
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The treatment of Yazidis in Iraq seems similar to the torment the Kalash in Pakistan have to bear every Friday through the mosque loudspeakers. Both Yazidis and Kalash have been accused as satan worshipers by their local Muslim communities.
[utube]qEXnEfdvv6s[/utube]
[utube]qEXnEfdvv6s[/utube]
akheR
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...roes-murderer-U-S-journalist-James-Foley.html
One of the main suspects to bear the identity of the chap who beheaded Foley is Abdel Majed Abdel Bary, a (former ?) rapper who fled his family's £1 million-worth home in West London
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5MARkfLEtpY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
He basically went from this, a healthy and promising element of the multicultural and thus peaceful British society
to that, holding a severed head in Syria
Of course, he probably knows more about Islam than Tupac lyrics.
By the way, is Shaykh ul Islam Anjem Choudary in Mosul right now ?
Considering that like our rapper he also went through extensive studies of Islam, he probably knows what recognizing the Khilafa implies in practical terms.
Andrew Hughes
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I'll be honest, I haven't heard of VICE before, but will give that documentary a look, thanks
OZGOD
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Apparently Khaled Sharrouf, the bloke who posted a pic of his kid holding up a severed Syrian's head was involved in Sydney's criminal underworld before he went to Syria, apparently because he was worried for his safety in Australia.
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Jihadist was a 'muscle for hire'
Richard Baker, Nick McKenzie and Nick Ralston
Published: August 23, 2014 - 3:00AM
Underworld clash: Khaled Sharrouf (in dark grey top) with Mike Tyson and George Alex (far right). Photo: Leigh Henningham
An underworld clash between Khaled Sharrouf and other crime figures over attempts to collect a disputed $9 million debt precipitated Sharrouf's departure to the Middle East to join murderous extremist group, the Islamic State.
Sharrouf, who recently gained global infamy after pictures were posted on social media of his young son holding a severed head, was attempting to recover the debt in the months before his departure for Iraq.
Sharrouf was muscle for hire in the Sydney underbelly, working closely with bikies, drug dealers and underworld identities before leaving Australia on his brother's passport.
Senior law enforcement officials suspect that his concern for his safety influenced his decision to leave, as did the federal government's crackdown on local jihadists heading overseas to fight in Iraq and Syria.
Fairfax Media can reveal that Sharrouf was working with Sydney building industry identity George Alex.
It is believed that in early 2013, Alex's then right-hand man, Joe Antoun, a criminal who was later murdered, arranged for a third party to purchase a house that Sharrouf and his family moved into. Alex and Antoun also employed one of Sharrouf's closest relatives in their construction business.
Sharrouf, who has also recently appeared in videos where he appears to execute unarmed prisoners, began to associate with Alex and Antoun after he served a jail sentence for his role in the 2005 plot to blow up Sydney's Holsworthy army barracks.
In return for the pair's financial support, Sharrouf collected debts and conducted other tasks, including helping in Alex's efforts to collect a $9 million disputed debt a building company owner claimed he was owed by the property development company Meriton owned by Sydney billionaire Harry Triguboff, who is one of Australia's biggest developers.
A source close to Meriton earlier this year confirmed the company had been approached by underworld figures in connection to the disputed debt, but told them to ''get lost''.
In a statement to Fairfax Media in January, Meriton said the subcontractor who claimed to be owed money was ordered off site because he was ''not fulfilling his obligations''. Meriton said it paid the subcontractor what he was owed, as well as the workers.
''Debt collectors retained by the said subcontractor did not demand any payment,'' Meriton said.
''They sought clarification from us first as to whether the debt was due. The debt collectors were advised by us that no money was owing. We provided the debt collector with evidence of the same. Accordingly, no money was paid or collected.''
Police sources have confirmed that in June 2013, Alex, Sharrouf, convicted drug dealer Bilal Fatrouni and debt collector Vasko Boskovski were involved in a dispute with a violent underworld group from Sydney's south-west who claimed they had first rights to the debt collection.
Around this time, Sharrouf, Alex and Fatrouni had met Mr Triguboff's construction manager in a Sydney pizza restaurant and claimed to be able to keep this group at bay and handle the debt recovery. The terrified construction manager broke down during this meeting and a video of that incident was later passed between crime figures. As feuding increased about who was entitled to recover the debt, a senior Sydney Islamic leader is believed to have become involved and urged the men to cease fighting.
But it is believed that during a confrontation with the rival group, Sharrouf produced and discharged a shotgun.
A short time after this, Sharrouf's close associate and business partner Boskovski was killed during a botched shotgun kneecapping believed to have been arranged by the rival group.
Sharrouf and Alex are believed to have feared for their lives in the days after Boskovski's murder and bunkered down in Alex's Burwood house.
After Sharrouf left, using his brother's passport in December, federal police raided the house Antoun had bought for him and his family to live in.
A second extremist figure, Mohamad Elomar, who is fighting alongside Sharrouf in Iraq, also spent significant time at Alex's house in Sydney and was often boxing in a gym out the back.
It is believed Sharrouf and Elomar would engage in lengthy discussions about religion, while simultaneously mixing with some of Sydney's most dangerous criminals.
This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/national/jihadist-was-a-muscle-for-hire-20140822-3e5ra.html
---------
-------------------------
Jihadist was a 'muscle for hire'
Richard Baker, Nick McKenzie and Nick Ralston
Published: August 23, 2014 - 3:00AM
Underworld clash: Khaled Sharrouf (in dark grey top) with Mike Tyson and George Alex (far right). Photo: Leigh Henningham
An underworld clash between Khaled Sharrouf and other crime figures over attempts to collect a disputed $9 million debt precipitated Sharrouf's departure to the Middle East to join murderous extremist group, the Islamic State.
Sharrouf, who recently gained global infamy after pictures were posted on social media of his young son holding a severed head, was attempting to recover the debt in the months before his departure for Iraq.
Sharrouf was muscle for hire in the Sydney underbelly, working closely with bikies, drug dealers and underworld identities before leaving Australia on his brother's passport.
Senior law enforcement officials suspect that his concern for his safety influenced his decision to leave, as did the federal government's crackdown on local jihadists heading overseas to fight in Iraq and Syria.
Fairfax Media can reveal that Sharrouf was working with Sydney building industry identity George Alex.
It is believed that in early 2013, Alex's then right-hand man, Joe Antoun, a criminal who was later murdered, arranged for a third party to purchase a house that Sharrouf and his family moved into. Alex and Antoun also employed one of Sharrouf's closest relatives in their construction business.
Sharrouf, who has also recently appeared in videos where he appears to execute unarmed prisoners, began to associate with Alex and Antoun after he served a jail sentence for his role in the 2005 plot to blow up Sydney's Holsworthy army barracks.
In return for the pair's financial support, Sharrouf collected debts and conducted other tasks, including helping in Alex's efforts to collect a $9 million disputed debt a building company owner claimed he was owed by the property development company Meriton owned by Sydney billionaire Harry Triguboff, who is one of Australia's biggest developers.
A source close to Meriton earlier this year confirmed the company had been approached by underworld figures in connection to the disputed debt, but told them to ''get lost''.
In a statement to Fairfax Media in January, Meriton said the subcontractor who claimed to be owed money was ordered off site because he was ''not fulfilling his obligations''. Meriton said it paid the subcontractor what he was owed, as well as the workers.
''Debt collectors retained by the said subcontractor did not demand any payment,'' Meriton said.
''They sought clarification from us first as to whether the debt was due. The debt collectors were advised by us that no money was owing. We provided the debt collector with evidence of the same. Accordingly, no money was paid or collected.''
Police sources have confirmed that in June 2013, Alex, Sharrouf, convicted drug dealer Bilal Fatrouni and debt collector Vasko Boskovski were involved in a dispute with a violent underworld group from Sydney's south-west who claimed they had first rights to the debt collection.
Around this time, Sharrouf, Alex and Fatrouni had met Mr Triguboff's construction manager in a Sydney pizza restaurant and claimed to be able to keep this group at bay and handle the debt recovery. The terrified construction manager broke down during this meeting and a video of that incident was later passed between crime figures. As feuding increased about who was entitled to recover the debt, a senior Sydney Islamic leader is believed to have become involved and urged the men to cease fighting.
But it is believed that during a confrontation with the rival group, Sharrouf produced and discharged a shotgun.
A short time after this, Sharrouf's close associate and business partner Boskovski was killed during a botched shotgun kneecapping believed to have been arranged by the rival group.
Sharrouf and Alex are believed to have feared for their lives in the days after Boskovski's murder and bunkered down in Alex's Burwood house.
After Sharrouf left, using his brother's passport in December, federal police raided the house Antoun had bought for him and his family to live in.
A second extremist figure, Mohamad Elomar, who is fighting alongside Sharrouf in Iraq, also spent significant time at Alex's house in Sydney and was often boxing in a gym out the back.
It is believed Sharrouf and Elomar would engage in lengthy discussions about religion, while simultaneously mixing with some of Sydney's most dangerous criminals.
This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/national/jihadist-was-a-muscle-for-hire-20140822-3e5ra.html
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style_guru
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One thing which has come up very clearly from this whole IS episode is the bursting of the notion that having a comfortable life, wealth, education, multicultural society etc. proves to be a deterrent for people from being radicalized.
We've seen people from first world countries with good education, excellent society where they've grown up, & most privileges one desires from, form a part of this organization which kills people for fun.
The IS sympathizers on this forum are just an example of what I've written above. Worrying times ahead.
We've seen people from first world countries with good education, excellent society where they've grown up, & most privileges one desires from, form a part of this organization which kills people for fun.
The IS sympathizers on this forum are just an example of what I've written above. Worrying times ahead.
BlackThunder
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Interesting. So did CSIS offer you anything to work for them or did they did just asked you? And why did you refused?
Jadz
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Muslim parents - as well as community leaders - need to focus on teaching young Muslims Arabic. The root cause of all this extremism is lack of knowledge of the Qur'an. People are being told what Islam is, what the Qur'an teaches, instead of learning for themselves. If Muslims understood the language, they would acquire direct access to the Qur'an and would not need interpreters, translators, or scholars. Obviously, teachers are needed in order to teach, but the major issue here is that teachers -preachers - are demanding submission, and expecting Muslims to follow them.
Now, Muslims in this country - and the West - have access to free education, free health-care, and such safety nets as unemployment or housing benefit. This means that they can progress, if they wish to do so. Unlike many Muslim countries, which do not afford people the opportunity to move ahead, the West do have these provisions. I am not saying everything about the West is perfect or excellent, it clearly is not. However, it is time Muslims stopped complaining and began learning. There is no excuse for simply joining a terrorist group, only because Muslim youth feels disenfranchised or dislocated, or whatever else. The way to improve society is to begin with one self, only then can people benefit their communities and countries.
There is an alternative to disengaged Muslim youth - they might consider returning to their own countries. If they did that, they would quickly realise how tough life really is.
Now, Muslims in this country - and the West - have access to free education, free health-care, and such safety nets as unemployment or housing benefit. This means that they can progress, if they wish to do so. Unlike many Muslim countries, which do not afford people the opportunity to move ahead, the West do have these provisions. I am not saying everything about the West is perfect or excellent, it clearly is not. However, it is time Muslims stopped complaining and began learning. There is no excuse for simply joining a terrorist group, only because Muslim youth feels disenfranchised or dislocated, or whatever else. The way to improve society is to begin with one self, only then can people benefit their communities and countries.
There is an alternative to disengaged Muslim youth - they might consider returning to their own countries. If they did that, they would quickly realise how tough life really is.
Saeed
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One thing I don't understand is that what attracts them to ISIS? There are many other terrorist organizations fighting in Syria and Iraq. Why are they stupid to fight for foreign nations because their future in those countries is next to impossible?
Brainwashing by mullah's in masjids who glorify killing non-Muslim's as being the easiest way to heaven. They are shown video's of what western forces are doing in Muslim countries, what they are not told is how corrupt Muslim leaders are or how Muslim's are killing each other. Most Muslim's don't have a clue who ISIS are so after landing in some Arab hellhole they'll be brainwashed by the first group of nutcases they'll come across.
Good riddance and hoping it stays that way.
The reason kids turn out this way is because parents cling on to religion rather than culture when they they move to the west. Furthermore, they encourage their kids to befriend people of the same religion in hope that they (the parents) can continue to control the kids. From time to time, you'll hear these parents point out all the western world's evil conspiracies in their attempts to destroy Islam. Eventually, loyalty towards Islam is all that is ingrained in their children's brains. And unlike the parents, the kids are not hypocrites so they feel compelled to chase their dreams of achieving 72 virgins. Obviously, most of these kids die virgins so when they do enter heaven, they end up playing video games with the other 72 virgins that they've earned.
The reason kids turn out this way is because parents cling on to religion rather than culture when they they move to the west. Furthermore, they encourage their kids to befriend people of the same religion in hope that they (the parents) can continue to control the kids. From time to time, you'll hear these parents point out all the western world's evil conspiracies in their attempts to destroy Islam. Eventually, loyalty towards Islam is all that is ingrained in their children's brains. And unlike the parents, the kids are not hypocrites so they feel compelled to chase their dreams of achieving 72 virgins. Obviously, most of these kids die virgins so when they do enter heaven, they end up playing video games with the other 72 virgins that they've earned.
KingKhanWC
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lol
Is this an Indian school of thought?
So why do British Jews go and fight for Israel? What's the number of virgins for them?
Or perhaps Hindu extremists who kill Christians and Muslims in India? What do they get?
KingKhanWC
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There is no real evidence there are around 500 British Muslims who are with ISIS in Iraq.
There are more details about Syria. Some are there for humanitarian reasons, others fighting against Assad.
The main reason for those who foolishly go and fight with such groups is the role of western foreign policy which for the last 13 years has caused the deaths of millions of Muslims.
Others may have personal mental issues and some could just be extreme in sectarian views.
However the video of Foley's supposedly beheading is clearly fake. It was done for various propaganda which also included scaremongering of British Muslims since they have a fair bit of influence in the UK, are anti-war and very pro-Palestine.
There are more details about Syria. Some are there for humanitarian reasons, others fighting against Assad.
The main reason for those who foolishly go and fight with such groups is the role of western foreign policy which for the last 13 years has caused the deaths of millions of Muslims.
Others may have personal mental issues and some could just be extreme in sectarian views.
However the video of Foley's supposedly beheading is clearly fake. It was done for various propaganda which also included scaremongering of British Muslims since they have a fair bit of influence in the UK, are anti-war and very pro-Palestine.
Why would it be an Indian school of thought?
And before you get your hopes up, no one's getting 72 virgins after they die. That's a myth.
The real question is, are women that have gone to fight in Iraq and Syria also promised 72 virgins in the hereafter?
I haven't seen it so I can't really have an opinion about it. But I'd like to know why you think it's fake?
Parents cling onto culture rather than religion, the main reason why folk migrate is for economic reasons for the vast majority of Immigrants religion is 2nd or 3rd or of little importance they are only abroad for the economic benefits by and large.
KingKhanWC
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How about you first prove this is the main motivation for men?
KingKhanWC
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The script given to Foley is nothing like previous ones done by similar groups.
No religious arabic words used by the perpetrator like previous beheading.
There was no actual beheading shown, strange considering ISIS are supposed to make Al-Qaeda look like the Salvation army.
Various camera angles used , not usual.
Sound is very clear, no background noise(wind etc)
Its just not like any other beheading videos before and many fake videos have been made as progaganda, esp OBL ones.
just saying
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"Oh Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, you terrify the enemies, Beautiful virgins are calling, enroll me as a martyr"
watch video clip from 15 : 00, to see how the ISIS Mullah is enticing the young boys to Jihad with the reward of virgins.
[utube]AUjHb4C7b94[/utube]
KingKhanWC
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No need. It's well known certain preachers whether they are agents or genuine use this type of language. However this doesn't prove it's their main motivation for joining such groups. In fact the vast majority go there thinking of victory not death.
chacha kashmiri
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Deeply disrespectful post
I'm pretty sure they could be reincarnated as new born virgins again and go out for a group date in mid down Delhi
I could argue about why people join armed forces and the percentage of personell who commit crime after being discharged
I could even talk about parents who cling onto culture rather than faith and their kids turn out to be womanising crack addicts
But i will not deflect any blame nor pour ridicule on the OP for his hyperolic assertion that these 20 men were preparing for terror when not even the security services seemed particularly bothered
Instead i'l try answer the question and say most people who went to Syria were there for humanitarian purposes and to try and help the thousands killed and stuck in refugee camps
Chickenkorma
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Today I learned everything that is wrong in the Muslim world is because of the West. Everyone is an agent. That uncle with the bad bread at the mosque - obvious agent. Real muslims brush their teeth. This guy is obviously an agent trying to spread the propaganda that Muslims have bad breath.
Chickenkorma
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Good on you man! I know the decision to provide evidence is a tough one, and I don't know what I'd do if I was in your shoes either...
KingKhanWC
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Education is good for you, don't knock it.
I haven't watched it but if it's Baghdadi then he's certainly an agent, after spending 4 years in US custody. People will do anything to get out, Abu Ghraib has shown us what the yanks are capable of .
Chickenkorma
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it's funny how you selectively choose to look at events and incidents as "proof" of something.
Let me give you an example:
in your world, a person simply being in prison for 4 years means that in those 4 years he must have been trained by his captors to work as an agent on their behalf. Simply being in custody is enough "evidence" that one has become an agent. This is how proof works in your world.
On the other hand, the documented video proof of Foley's beheading must be fake, because it does not coalesce well with your worldviews. Video footage is not evidence - it must be fabricated because it does not suit KKWC perspective of the world.
Is their any evidence that Baghdadi received training in the form of a leaked document, video footage, audio recording - ANYTHING of that nature? None has been presented.
Is their any evidence that the video of Foley is "fabricated" in the form of a leaked document, video footage, audio recording or ANYTHING of that nature? None that has been presented.
See how evidence is a word that's missing from your vocabulary? Do you see how you collectively look at events as per your ideology? You are not an objective or coherent observer - you are a borderline schizophrenic.
KingKhanWC
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lol documented video proof
You don't even know if that is Foley. Where is the proof this is Foley and this video is real? Did you even know what Foley looked like before this news broke? You mentioned proof and evidence not me, so show it.
You are merely following the American view of this. A nation who has a pretty horrible record in Iraq of fabricating stories. You don't need any help with the WMD lie do you? Or even the recent fake stories of thousands and thousands of people stuck on a mountain. I made 6 simple points regarding the video which makes it's suspicious. You haven't addressed any.
What we do now as a fact is the US and it's allies in the region have funded, trained and given weapons to various terrorist groups in the region. ISIS is an evolution of an Al-Qaeda group in Iraq from 2003 which then then transformed and mixed into various groups in Syria. The US has openly funded these groups with the likes of McCain meeting them in person. Around 800 ISIL fighters made thousands of Iraqi army troops retreat. They didn't get their weapons the local corner shop in Northern Syria.
The official line is Baghdadi was released because he was seen as a low risk prisoner. He just managed to become a Caliph not long after.lol Torture and mind altering drugs have been used in Guantanamo Bay as routine against prisoners. Many others have also come out of detention to join 'terrorist' groups. It's reasonable to suggest Baghdadi was released not because he was low risk(clearly isn't) but he could be used to head a group the US helped create from Syria. The majority of people in such groups are either brainwashed, paid mercenaries, hardcore sectarian extremists or just criminals but an agent is always required to meet the objectives. OBL was a CIA agent in Afghanistan at the time of the Soviet occupation. The subject of History can be your friend here.
Gabbar Singh
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The independents take on this subject. I'm surprised that so many people are acting as if this is something unusual. If British born men are willing to blow up buses, trains and airliners then why the surprise that they are fighting for ISIS. If British doctors are willing to blow up airports in this country then why the surprise that they might join ISIS. If British men are willing to behead someone on the streets of London just for wearing a 'Help for Heroes' hoodie then why the surprise at this? If British public schooled and LSE educated men were willing to cut off a journalists head as far back as 2002 then why the surprise that it is happening now.
Continue to bury our heads in the sand (or deny it's even a problem) and history will continue to repeat itself.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...h-jihadists-go-to-fight-in-syria-9680931.html
Continue to bury our heads in the sand (or deny it's even a problem) and history will continue to repeat itself.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...h-jihadists-go-to-fight-in-syria-9680931.html
Zanjeer
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To answer the op s question - too much of religion. No other reason, just too much of religion.
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Religion and low self esteem.
I've never seen any other country try to help (or show concern) Pakistanis like the way they try to help other muslim countries.
I can't ever imagine Palestinians, Syrians and Saudis shout 'Free Kashmir'
Maybe you should model yourselves more on East Asian muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia who despite their problems are not so fanatic and have built a decent standard of living.
I've never seen any other country try to help (or show concern) Pakistanis like the way they try to help other muslim countries.
I can't ever imagine Palestinians, Syrians and Saudis shout 'Free Kashmir'
Maybe you should model yourselves more on East Asian muslim countries like Malaysia and Indonesia who despite their problems are not so fanatic and have built a decent standard of living.
Gabbar Singh
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Cpt. Rishwat
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You are right, when you put it like that there really should be 400,000 British men in Iraq and Syria rather than 400. Perhaps my fellow Muslim bros are still saving up the air fare.
DiamondDigger
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Yeah they made me three different offers first they offered me a weekly salary, than a weekly salary plus a lump sum amount and their last offer was the above two plus a permenant position at CSIS with a 2 year guaranteed contract. Financially it was extremely extremely tempting but the main reason I refused was I knew I would be asked to do a lot more than just gather evidence and morally it just didn't feel right.
I think the point about 72 virgins is a pertinent one simply cos it exists...martyrdom does bring that as a reward...so Islam focuses on mans most primal instinct and sells a concept...
There may of course be people who fight with the direct desire to please Allah and the virgins are of no interest to them...remember there are women who have no such 'benefits' in heaven but also seek martyrdom...
More so than either of these two concepts though is the desire for wealth and instant gratification...Islamic expansion was no different from anyone else at the time...it brought wealth to those that fought through confiscation of property...and it brought sexual gratification through the taking of conquered women...
For a religion supposedly focused on afterlife there are also many worldly benefits to be had by fighting...
There may of course be people who fight with the direct desire to please Allah and the virgins are of no interest to them...remember there are women who have no such 'benefits' in heaven but also seek martyrdom...
More so than either of these two concepts though is the desire for wealth and instant gratification...Islamic expansion was no different from anyone else at the time...it brought wealth to those that fought through confiscation of property...and it brought sexual gratification through the taking of conquered women...
For a religion supposedly focused on afterlife there are also many worldly benefits to be had by fighting...
The irony of your position Jadz is you always seem to argue that Muslims shouldn't seek scholarship yet you play the scholar on this forum...you tell people scholars are wrong and then provide your own interpretations...just because your views are lighter doesn't mean you yourself are not trying to impose or indoctrinate people with your own views...
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