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Is Mickey Arthur the ideal coach for Pakistan?

Is Mickey Arthur the ideal coach for Pakistan?

  • Yes, he is

    Votes: 74 73.3%
  • No, he isn't

    Votes: 27 26.7%

  • Total voters
    101

Square Drive

Test Star
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Runs
37,660
One year into his tenure.

How do fans feel? Should he stick around, or has he not fulfilled expectations?

Mods - would be great if you can add a poll here. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]
 
One year is not long enough to turn our fortunes around especially given Arthur's been on the road for at least 75% of that time and unable to assess the domestic talent pool. He's been put in a tough spot thanks to the stupidity of Sharjeel and Latif whose suspensions robbed us of two of our main powerhitters. He's made a mistake of replacing them with Kamran and Shehzad but I'd put that down to him not being aware of other domestic talents and the selectors who pushed for them on the back of their PSL showings.

The T20 side has improved but the ODI side remains mediocre - we'll get a better impression of the ODI team under Arthur after the CT, Bangladesh tour and Sri Lanka series. He inherited a mess from Waqar and it'll take time to turn around.

He's laid down the gauntlet on fitness by dropping Umar Akmal and Sohail Khan. I thought bar Kamran, our fielding looked sharper in the WI ODIs but we're still a long way before matching the fielding standards of the top sides.

Another criterion to judge a coach is player development. He's done a good job of developing Babar Azam and Hasan Ali whilst Sharjeel was improving all the time pre-scandal under Arthur. Imad Wasim has been given a consistent run as our primary LOI all-rounder. He's also introduced young blood like Shadab Khan and Rumman Raees but he's blundered by selecting TTFs like Hafeez and Tanvir.

The Test team predictably floundered in Australia and were abysmal in New Zealand but the England tour was a pleasant surprise. The introductions of Sami Aslam and Sohail Khan in that series was a great call. The big test for him in Tests is how he replaces Younis and Misbah.

Overall, 5/10 but we'll get a clearer picture of his tenure by the end of the year.
 
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I don't know.

I mean, there appears to be no better option than Mickey for us at the moment, but the way he moved Babar from #3 and has been backing Hafeez is pretty ridiculous.

Would like to hear from [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].
 
Hypothetically, would Deano be a better coach?

I dont see any other "real" option that could challenge Micky.
 
Mickey has a list of achievements to look back on over the course of his first year. Such as:

- Longest losing streak of any Pakistani test side
- Lost to NZ for the first time in 31 years
- Lost a test to West Indies in fortress UAE (played abysmal throughout that series, just scraping through)
- Zero improvement in ODI sides fortunes
- Continues to back TTFs like Hafeez, Kami, Tanvir, Wahab and Shehzad
- Dropped Babar from his preferred number three position
- Instead of fixing the problem, is blaming the lack of participation in IPL as the crux of the issue
- Recommended the dropping of Sohail Khan who was the best bowler in the PSL and as per some is our best pacer
- Played Fakhar Zaman at 4,5 and 6 when he is primarily an opener
- Made Shadab Khan bat below Tanvir and Wahab
- Failed to try out new players in the ODI batting lineup even though they were in the squad
- Fahim Ashraf flew all the way to Caribbean just to warm the bench
- Muhammad Asghar hasn't debuted despite being in and around the squad for close to a year



These are just from the top of my head. Mickey has many more "achievements" which I'm sure he will be proud of. I'd take Waqar's "dehati" coaching over someone who acts like they mean business but instead are just there to earn their hefty paycheque.
 
The question is who will we blame after dean Jones has also come and gone
 
Trouble with foreign coaches is that they quickly fall into the spell of senior players - who appear compliant, hardworking and probably put up a good show in the nets.

They don't understand our culture (which sometimes requires stick to get performance ala Imran Khan) and don't invest the time (or are understandably afraid) to spend time domestic cricket.

We saw this with Lawson, Pybus, Whatmore etc. Essentially, these coaches lost what made them good in the first place and become cheerleaders for the team.

I don't see team going anywhere with Micky Arthur - good guy that he is. He is yet to wield the stick and make a single tough call on any player.
 
Whoever hired Mickey, give him a big pat on the back. He is impeccable in his communication. He is technical and not a nice guy but a dooer.

Watch this.

Last time we had a coach of this calibre was Bob.
 
I voted no. Am not impressed by him tbh

You impressed with Waqar or Mohsin Khan? You actually think they are able to handle the challenge of revamping the game in a test playing country?

Just look at his impact.In our ODI we only have 3 players over 30. Kami/Hafeez/Malik.

Average age of the team has come down sharply. Players are looking fitter and fielding is better. This is real impact. The results will come.
 
One year into his tenure.

How do fans feel? Should he stick around, or has he not fulfilled expectations?

Mods - would be great if you can add a poll here. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

Mickey Arthur has not been an ideal coach for any teame. He is a ticking time bomb.
 
These are just from the top of my head. Mickey has many more "achievements" which I'm sure he will be proud of. I'd take Waqar's "dehati" coaching over someone who acts like they mean business but instead are just there to earn their hefty paycheque.
Under Waqar we crashed to #9 in the world and received 3-0 whitewash in Bangladesh.

This was the coach who played four pacers on a raging turner in Kolkata and gave a 39 year old an international debut.

Yes there's been some selection blunders under Arthur but it was the norm under Waqar - who persisted with Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Mohammad Sami, opened with Bilal Asif, dropped Amir Yamin after just three ODIs despite doing nothing wrong and selected Khurrum Manzoor as T20 opener. He also backed Azhar as ODI captain whilst refused to play Sarfraz in early stages of 2015 WC despite being one of our best performers in ODIs in late 2014.

This is just a small sample of the list of blunders under the Pep Guardiola of Pak cricket.
 
Mickey has a list of achievements to look back on over the course of his first year. Such as:

- Longest losing streak of any Pakistani test side
- Lost to NZ for the first time in 31 years
- Lost a test to West Indies in fortress UAE (played abysmal throughout that series, just scraping through)
- Zero improvement in ODI sides fortunes
- Continues to back TTFs like Hafeez, Kami, Tanvir, Wahab and Shehzad
- Dropped Babar from his preferred number three position
- Instead of fixing the problem, is blaming the lack of participation in IPL as the crux of the issue
- Recommended the dropping of Sohail Khan who was the best bowler in the PSL and as per some is our best pacer
- Played Fakhar Zaman at 4,5 and 6 when he is primarily an opener
- Made Shadab Khan bat below Tanvir and Wahab
- Failed to try out new players in the ODI batting lineup even though they were in the squad
- Fahim Ashraf flew all the way to Caribbean just to warm the bench
- Muhammad Asghar hasn't debuted despite being in and around the squad for close to a year



These are just from the top of my head. Mickey has many more "achievements" which I'm sure he will be proud of. I'd take Waqar's "dehati" coaching over someone who acts like they mean business but instead are just there to earn their hefty paycheque.


If it wasn't for Arthur, Babar wouldn't have batted at 3 in the 1st place. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] have read Arthur's book and have said he prefers younger players and a younger team . He doesn't want Hafeez in the team, it's clear after he dropped him in tests. Inzi is the one who wants the senior TTFS in the team.

You want Waqar eh? Your precious Waqar didn't want Sarfraz in the LO team at the world cup and I'm sure he would have stuck with Azhar as captain had he still had the coaching role now. Arthur recommended Sarfraz take over.
 
No coach is ideal for Pakistan

Still far better than Younis
Rameez Raja is probably than Waqar Younis

THE problems start the very top for cricket in Pakistan
 
If it wasn't for Arthur, Babar wouldn't have batted at 3 in the 1st place. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] have read Arthur's book and have said he prefers younger players and a younger team . He doesn't want Hafeez in the team, it's clear after he dropped him in tests. Inzi is the one who wants the senior TTFS in the team.

You want Waqar eh? Your precious Waqar didn't want Sarfraz in the LO team at the world cup and I'm sure he would have stuck with Azhar as captain had he still had the coaching role now. Arthur recommended Sarfraz take over.
Why did he ask Inzi for Hafeez in Australia if he supposedly prefers younger players?
 
Look, Coaches can ONLY COACH.

There's nothing much, which they can do.

Especially, at the highest level.

Look at our top 3

1.Shehzad, Which coach can teach him to rotate strike?
2.Akmal, No coach can teach him to put value in his wicket.
3.Hafeez, There's a reason he's called a professor. Because he is a good statsman. Get some century against a minnow. Bowl 6-7 economical overs. y

So, tell me. Which coach can be successful with these fellas as top 3.

Coming to the bowling.

Amir, continuously bowling negative lines. Being defensive.
Wahab, Tauba hi karna chaahiye.
Hassan, bowlsone odd hit me ball(exceptional as he's still learning).

In an ideal world, this should have been the playing 11 for CT. Alas, Management, team management, coaches, captains and players are to be blamed.

1.Sharjeel(He is to be blamed)
2.Tallat(Management didn't groom)
3.Babar
4.Sarfraz(He's Not a No.6, Sarfraz and management to be blamed.)
5.Malik
6.Imad(He's not a hitter, better play at 6 so that he gets sometime to get going. Again management to be blamed)
7.Shadab(Utilize his batting potential, management to be blamed)
8.F Ashraf(Didn't get a game. Management to be blamed)
9.Amir
10.Hassan
11.Junaid
 
These were the coaches

1.Waqar
2.Akram
3.Waqar
4.Mickey

To my knowledge, these are the coaches from 2011-2017.

Coaches were changed, did this change the fortunes?

Not a bit, whatsoever.

Yes you can make coaches a scapegoat.

Poor show in CT. Mickey sacked

Dean jones 2017-2018(With not much success, so sacked)

Then there will be calls for local coach

Inzi himself 2018-2019(Poor show in world cup, Inzi sacked)

Bottomline.

Pakistan ranked from 2017-2019

Test-No.6
ODI-No.7/8
T20- Not much to gauge on these rankings

TEN POINTS TO IMPROVE

1.Bring proper system from school cricket, U-15, U-19, U-23
2.Hire qualified coaches at Grass roots.
3.Prepare pitches for scores of 330+ in domestics
5.Use kookabura balls in domestics
6.Play deserving players at deserving places in domestics(Don't play TTF's or Non deserving players. Eg.Tanvir batting above Shadab in domestics and Arsal sheikh being in the playing 11)
7.Get rid of TTF's
8.Stop playing in UAE
9.Fitness should be the first and foremost criteria for selection
10.REMOVE FEAR OF FAILURE.
 
If it wasn't for Arthur, Babar wouldn't have batted at 3 in the 1st place. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] have read Arthur's book and have said he prefers younger players and a younger team . He doesn't want Hafeez in the team, it's clear after he dropped him in tests. Inzi is the one who wants the senior TTFS in the team.

You want Waqar eh? Your precious Waqar didn't want Sarfraz in the LO team at the world cup and I'm sure he would have stuck with Azhar as captain had he still had the coaching role now. Arthur recommended Sarfraz take over.

I was never a fan of Waqar, the point I was making was atleast Waqar didn't act as some sort of savior who would fix everything, get a hefty pay cheque and then end up doing zilch. As of now Waqar seems like the lesser evil.
 
As an individual Coach, Arthur is the highest possible pro that PCB could hire & I was quite impressed with PCB that they could hire Arthur, considering the security situations (& their famous image as an employer).

Is he an ideal coach for PAK? I am not sure actually - also 11 months is too little time to judge a Coach. I actually don't see much improvement in overall performance, because in UAE PAK was a force always while team couldn't have performed worse than this in ANZ, if even may be Basit Ali was Coach. The Lo resurgence is mostly for a much needed & much awaited change in leadership, but Arthur indded should be credited for the change in an almost decade long mindset. When Whatmore was appointed, I categorically wrote that he'll be a failure with PCB. Dav was a fantastic Coach, probably the best ever to work with developing teams. But, he was an unpolished dominating character, who would command everything that he needed. That's why, he had fantastic success with emerging teams/boards - SRL, BD, NCA Bangalore; while he was a failure with teams where he had to work under a frame work - Lancashire/KKR ..... obviously, he was destined to fail with PCB.

This guy Arthur is much more polished, and experienced both from right & wrong incidents. What I have seen is that, he delivers with a commanding Captain - Smith, to a certain extent Misbah; therefore in long term lots of his success will depend on how strong Sarfraz remains. Tactically, technically I don't think there are many better than him in his role therefore qualification isn't any issue - he is one of the best in the world, with every qualities needed to be successful in this role as PAK's head coach, provided that he has adequate support from his employer.

However, in 3 aspects, I think MA needs to rethink his way of doing things with PAK. First one is the approach to the game - he had great success with SAF team, which played very defensive, safety first game - that was a fantastic team, therefore their calculative game won them many matches, and almost erased unpredictability - they hardly will lose a match that they are expected to win. PAK can't play defensive, waiting game - may be apparently on dead slow UAE wickets (which I don't agree completely, but separate discussion), it can work a bit, but core of PAK cricket is expressive, free flowing game - more instinct, less calculation. In that regard, PAK is closer to AUS than SAF, & Micky had a clash with AUS team - he has to find a way to engage this PAK team, the way players are comfortable to deliver their best.

2nd issue is that, Arthur's philosophy is based on pace attack - which is perfect for PAK team as well. But, in terms of overall bowling combination, PAK is more versatile than SAF or even AUS, because of the quality of spinners. With PAK, he can't put every egg in one basket, rather he has to bring spinners in his equation. This is one improvement area for him - it doesn't sound too different between 4 pacers & a spinner or 3 pacers & 2 spinners on papers, but strategically is a massive difference - not to mention 3 spinners & 2 pacers. So far, I haven't seen Arthur to be a shrewd operator with spinners - he likes darters even for KK, which is a defensive way of using spinners.

3rd one is a combination of 1 & 2 - with SAF, Arthur played a far modern game where his core strategy was combination & synergy. His 11 players complemented each others & his team strength lied in sum of multiple skills of his players with bat, ball, fielding & fitness. Here in PAK, the game is still best at individual level.
To make it simple - I can categorically identify a Man of the Match in almost any PAK win, almost it's as visible as the scorching sun; but despite having some of the best individuals, often team performance over shaded individual contribution in SAF's wins. Arthur has to come forward in this regard - for that PAK players won't change ever. He has to find a way to give individuals to express themselves best & that individual capability should determine his combination - instead of other way.

A classic example I can give is the dilemma between PAK 2 ODI openers - one of them has to go. Ahmed is young, he can field much better, he can run better, he has a long future to invest; while Kamran is almost like a fading sun - on his last legs, unfit, bottom heavy & a pathetic fielder. SAF way of thinking is to pick Ahmed between those 2, because Ahmed can contribute in multiple factors; PAK way probably is KAkmal, because despite those drops, bottom heavy doubles turned into singles, KAkmal can blast. For SAF, Arthur could have found other avenues to compensate that lack of blasting power for Ahmed through his better overall game; but, for PAK, in 9 days Kakmal will be clown, one day prince charming & he'll win a match that day. Arthur has to manage this PAK team with their psyche, not other way.

He was the 1st non Aussie, convinced CA to hire him as head coach, therefore his technical qualifications are beyond doubt; but he couldn't keep that job, because he didn't understand his players, culture, environment & the chemistry between his players - same in PAK, but not necessarily that chemistry has to be identical, therefore he has to find the proper mix. If he can adjust & address these 3 areas, he is one of the very best for the job - should remain there till 2023 WC, with utmost authority.

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION], [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION]
 
I don't think so if his all requirements fulfilled by PCB then i challenged any one can give results.
 
Under Waqar we crashed to #9 in the world and received 3-0 whitewash in Bangladesh.

This was the coach who played four pacers on a raging turner in Kolkata and gave a 39 year old an international debut.

Yes there's been some selection blunders under Arthur but it was the norm under Waqar - who persisted with Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Mohammad Sami, opened with Bilal Asif, dropped Amir Yamin after just three ODIs despite doing nothing wrong and selected Khurrum Manzoor as T20 opener. He also backed Azhar as ODI captain whilst refused to play Sarfraz in early stages of 2015 WC despite being one of our best performers in ODIs in late 2014.

This is just a small sample of the list of blunders under the Pep Guardiola of Pak cricket.

Mickey Arthur is going to be sacked for a third time

these 'blunders' you are talking abt were all experiments in t20s.

mickey's blunders have been in tests where we are on the LONGEST LOSING STREAK IN PAKISTAN'S HISTORY!

and ofcourse nothing to note in odi's where we hold the record for conceding the HIGHEST SCORE IN HISTORY
 
One year is not long enough to turn our fortunes around especially given Arthur's been on the road for at least 75% of that time and unable to assess the domestic talent pool. He's been put in a tough spot thanks to the stupidity of Sharjeel and Latif whose suspensions robbed us of two of our main powerhitters. He's made a mistake of replacing them with Kamran and Shehzad but I'd put that down to him not being aware of other domestic talents and the selectors who pushed for them on the back of their PSL showings.

The T20 side has improved but the ODI side remains mediocre - we'll get a better impression of the ODI team under Arthur after the CT, Bangladesh tour and Sri Lanka series. He inherited a mess from Waqar and it'll take time to turn around.

He's laid down the gauntlet on fitness by dropping Umar Akmal and Sohail Khan. I thought bar Kamran, our fielding looked sharper in the WI ODIs but we're still a long way before matching the fielding standards of the top sides.

Another criterion to judge a coach is player development. He's done a good job of developing Babar Azam and Hasan Ali whilst Sharjeel was improving all the time pre-scandal under Arthur. Imad Wasim has been given a consistent run as our primary LOI all-rounder. He's also introduced young blood like Shadab Khan and Rumman Raees but he's blundered by selecting TTFs like Hafeez and Tanvir.

The Test team predictably floundered in Australia and were abysmal in New Zealand but the England tour was a pleasant surprise. The introductions of Sami Aslam and Sohail Khan in that series was a great call. The big test for him in Tests is how he replaces Younis and Misbah.

Overall, 5/10 but we'll get a clearer picture of his tenure by the end of the year.

Yes England tour was all down to Arthur but the tours after that were Waqar's fault

logic works reverse in this case
 
Mickey Arthur is a top-class coach but there's only so much he can do in his capacity. Ultimately, it's the players who have to go out and play. You can have the best tutor, but if you don't study and work hard yourself chances are you'll fail the exam.
 
Personally, I'm not someone who believes that coaches have a lot of game influence in a sport like cricket.
 
Mickey Arthur is a top-class coach but there's only so much he can do in his capacity. Ultimately, it's the players who have to go out and play. You can have the best tutor, but if you don't study and work hard yourself chances are you'll fail the exam.

Coach's job is also to get the right guys in/kick out non performing ones.

Inzi has given full kick out / select rights to coach and captain, and he's failing badly at that.

Just look at the long line of accumulators we have.
 
From recalling Hafeez to now asking for Rahat, can this guy get any better?

I thought he was 'impressed' with the young talent; he could have asked for a young fast bowler with obvious potential, but instead he goes down the T&TF route and asks for Rahat. :facepalm:
 
I was never a fan of Waqar, the point I was making was atleast Waqar didn't act as some sort of savior who would fix everything, get a hefty pay cheque and then end up doing zilch. As of now Waqar seems like the lesser evil.


But Waqar had all the solutions when he was sacked, but implemented nothing.
 
Dropped him from the test team though. I believe it was Azhar and Inzi who wanted Hafeez selected more than Arthur
Inzi had no part in dropping Hafeez?

Mickey has a good history of calling failures up to the team- the first being Hafeez and now Rahat.
 
As an individual Coach, Arthur is the highest possible pro that PCB could hire & I was quite impressed with PCB that they could hire Arthur, considering the security situations (& their famous image as an employer).

Is he an ideal coach for PAK? I am not sure actually - also 11 months is too little time to judge a Coach. I actually don't see much improvement in overall performance, because in UAE PAK was a force always while team couldn't have performed worse than this in ANZ, if even may be Basit Ali was Coach. The Lo resurgence is mostly for a much needed & much awaited change in leadership, but Arthur indded should be credited for the change in an almost decade long mindset. When Whatmore was appointed, I categorically wrote that he'll be a failure with PCB. Dav was a fantastic Coach, probably the best ever to work with developing teams. But, he was an unpolished dominating character, who would command everything that he needed. That's why, he had fantastic success with emerging teams/boards - SRL, BD, NCA Bangalore; while he was a failure with teams where he had to work under a frame work - Lancashire/KKR ..... obviously, he was destined to fail with PCB.

This guy Arthur is much more polished, and experienced both from right & wrong incidents. What I have seen is that, he delivers with a commanding Captain - Smith, to a certain extent Misbah; therefore in long term lots of his success will depend on how strong Sarfraz remains. Tactically, technically I don't think there are many better than him in his role therefore qualification isn't any issue - he is one of the best in the world, with every qualities needed to be successful in this role as PAK's head coach, provided that he has adequate support from his employer.

However, in 3 aspects, I think MA needs to rethink his way of doing things with PAK. First one is the approach to the game - he had great success with SAF team, which played very defensive, safety first game - that was a fantastic team, therefore their calculative game won them many matches, and almost erased unpredictability - they hardly will lose a match that they are expected to win. PAK can't play defensive, waiting game - may be apparently on dead slow UAE wickets (which I don't agree completely, but separate discussion), it can work a bit, but core of PAK cricket is expressive, free flowing game - more instinct, less calculation. In that regard, PAK is closer to AUS than SAF, & Micky had a clash with AUS team - he has to find a way to engage this PAK team, the way players are comfortable to deliver their best.

2nd issue is that, Arthur's philosophy is based on pace attack - which is perfect for PAK team as well. But, in terms of overall bowling combination, PAK is more versatile than SAF or even AUS, because of the quality of spinners. With PAK, he can't put every egg in one basket, rather he has to bring spinners in his equation. This is one improvement area for him - it doesn't sound too different between 4 pacers & a spinner or 3 pacers & 2 spinners on papers, but strategically is a massive difference - not to mention 3 spinners & 2 pacers. So far, I haven't seen Arthur to be a shrewd operator with spinners - he likes darters even for KK, which is a defensive way of using spinners.

3rd one is a combination of 1 & 2 - with SAF, Arthur played a far modern game where his core strategy was combination & synergy. His 11 players complemented each others & his team strength lied in sum of multiple skills of his players with bat, ball, fielding & fitness. Here in PAK, the game is still best at individual level.
To make it simple - I can categorically identify a Man of the Match in almost any PAK win, almost it's as visible as the scorching sun; but despite having some of the best individuals, often team performance over shaded individual contribution in SAF's wins. Arthur has to come forward in this regard - for that PAK players won't change ever. He has to find a way to give individuals to express themselves best & that individual capability should determine his combination - instead of other way.

A classic example I can give is the dilemma between PAK 2 ODI openers - one of them has to go. Ahmed is young, he can field much better, he can run better, he has a long future to invest; while Kamran is almost like a fading sun - on his last legs, unfit, bottom heavy & a pathetic fielder. SAF way of thinking is to pick Ahmed between those 2, because Ahmed can contribute in multiple factors; PAK way probably is KAkmal, because despite those drops, bottom heavy doubles turned into singles, KAkmal can blast. For SAF, Arthur could have found other avenues to compensate that lack of blasting power for Ahmed through his better overall game; but, for PAK, in 9 days Kakmal will be clown, one day prince charming & he'll win a match that day. Arthur has to manage this PAK team with their psyche, not other way.

He was the 1st non Aussie, convinced CA to hire him as head coach, therefore his technical qualifications are beyond doubt; but he couldn't keep that job, because he didn't understand his players, culture, environment & the chemistry between his players - same in PAK, but not necessarily that chemistry has to be identical, therefore he has to find the proper mix. If he can adjust & address these 3 areas, he is one of the very best for the job - should remain there till 2023 WC, with utmost authority.

[MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION], [MENTION=100918]Square Drive[/MENTION]


Good post.
 
Inzi had no part in dropping Hafeez?

Mickey has a good history of calling failures up to the team- the first being Hafeez and now Rahat.


Yes he has made some poor selections but he has helped to improve Babar and Sharjeel.
 
He has had some positives and negatives but the good thing is that he has high importance for fitness.
 
From recalling Hafeez to now asking for Rahat, can this guy get any better?

I thought he was 'impressed' with the young talent; he could have asked for a young fast bowler with obvious potential, but instead he goes down the T&TF route and asks for Rahat. :facepalm:

Rahat is the only bowler who can swing the new ball at good pace other than amir... Raahat is a good test bowler , better than wahab on any day....
 
Mickey Arthur is going to be sacked for a third time

these 'blunders' you are talking abt were all experiments in t20s.

mickey's blunders have been in tests where we are on the
LONGEST LOSING STREAK IN PAKISTAN'S HISTORY!

and ofcourse nothing to note in odi's where we hold the record for conceding the HIGHEST SCORE IN HISTORY

Lol.. he played one home series in UAE out of those long losing streak... In the past the pak have played outside asia once in a year.. Not like this since the english summer last year.. Pak didnt win a series for nearly 4 years since the WI tour of Pakistan in 2006 until Misbah won them a series in NZL in 2010 if im not wrong...
 
Mickey Arthur is going to be sacked for a third time

these 'blunders' you are talking abt were all experiments in t20s.

mickey's blunders have been in tests where we are on the LONGEST LOSING STREAK IN PAKISTAN'S HISTORY!

and ofcourse nothing to note in odi's where we hold the record for conceding the HIGHEST SCORE IN HISTORY

IMO he was the only option PAK was left with. PCB couldn't sign either of VIV or Deano cause they were too pricy and Arthur was rejected by both SA and AUS. So both filled each others needs.
 
I was never a fan of Waqar, the point I was making was atleast Waqar didn't act as some sort of savior who would fix everything, get a hefty pay cheque and then end up doing zilch. As of now Waqar seems like the lesser evil.

always players outside is better than player inside now that has transformed into ex-coach is better than the coach in-charge..
 
Under Waqar we crashed to #9 in the world and received 3-0 whitewash in Bangladesh.

This was the coach who played four pacers on a raging turner in Kolkata and gave a 39 year old an international debut.

Yes there's been some selection blunders under Arthur but it was the norm under Waqar - who persisted with Anwar Ali, Bilawal Bhatti, Mohammad Sami, opened with Bilal Asif, dropped Amir Yamin after just three ODIs despite doing nothing wrong and selected Khurrum Manzoor as T20 opener. He also backed Azhar as ODI captain whilst refused to play Sarfraz in early stages of 2015 WC despite being one of our best performers in ODIs in late 2014.

This is just a small sample of the list of blunders under the Pep Guardiola of Pak cricket.

Excellent post.. I like that Pep Guardiola of Pak cricket lol... Pak fans as usual forget the past very quickly.. I remind to all again, pak is also the team that never won a test series for nearly 4 years including when they had good experienced middle order and young rookies as bowlers.. He was the coach of SA when Pak lost their home series with a farewell match to the current chief selector INZI..
 
Mickey Arthur is going to be sacked for a third time

these 'blunders' you are talking abt were all experiments in t20s.

mickey's blunders have been in tests where we are on the LONGEST LOSING STREAK IN PAKISTAN'S HISTORY!

and ofcourse nothing to note in odi's where we hold the record for conceding the HIGHEST SCORE IN HISTORY

Arthur wasn't sacked by South Africa, he resigned after differences with the board. Under Arthur, South Africa won their first series in England in over 40 years and achieved their first series victory in Australia in 2008. He brought in and helped oversee the development of players who've become world class and will go down as one of the best coaches SA have ever had.

In Australia he tried to change things too quickly but even there, he managed to introduce players like Warner and Starc into the Test team. Name me one international coach who's never had any setbacks in their career. Australia were going through a transitional phase with the retirements of key players and any coach would've found it tough.

As for the Test team, its been an extremely disappointing run of results but you neglect to mention unlike Waqar who was able to pad his stats in UAE, Arthur's only had ONE series at "home". PCB incompetence meant we had a crazy schedule last year with two tours back-to-back with hardly ANY preparation time.

The ONLY tour match in NZ we had was rained off and all Asian teams recently have struggled in NZ in very seam-friendly conditions but it was a disappointing tour I grant you. As for Australia, which Pakistan coach has succeeded there ? Believe me Waqar would've received the same beating.

And LOL at Waqar fans criticising Arthur's LOI record. That's like Kim Jong Un giving lectures about human rights. Need I remind you we lost 3-0 in Bangladesh, lost three consecutive ODI series in 2014 to Sri Lanka, Australia and New Zealand, crashed to #9 in the ODI rankings and #7 in T20 rankings, failed to win a SINGLE match in two series in NZ in 2015 and 2016, crashed out of group stages of Asia Cup AND the WT20. Arthur needs time to clear up the almighty mess Waqar left with the LOI teams.
 
A coach can only do so much. In my mind he strategizes a vision and a plan, lets his team know what improvements the team needs to work on. The rest really falls on the team. Picking the actual players whether he has a say or not is really questionable in my mind. One might argue about the last two odi world cup champions, Australia and India. Did their coaches have anything to do with it or one could argue the coaches of both sides happened to inherit a strong team that gelled together at the right time and maybe just needed a little polishing...There is a bit of luck and science involved im sure....

In hindsight i dare not say it, but i have a gut feeling that the team we have now which beat WI is the right combo for champions trophy and i see us go all the way barring maybe one. But i really don't want to make any changes, including Shehzad. Yes i said it !! The current pakistan team has players that can bring it on any given day and isnt depending on a superstar like player to make a statement..My money is on Pakistan. You guys are just blind in doom and gloom to see it..The team in my mind for CT is set..
 
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I wouldn't blame Arthur for our failures in NZ & Aus. I blame the scheduling for our performances (we would've lost anyway in Aus, but surely we would've put up a much better fight in NZ had our scheduling been better leading up to the first test).

As far as ODI's... it's going to take a lot more than a coach. I wonder how much he is to blame for bringing Kamran Akmal back when our chief selector has publicly backed Kamran. The worst thing Mickey Arthur has done for us though is to let Hafeez claim the one-down position, when Babar Azam has already been performing there!. This was the exact same criticism I have of Bob Woolmer, when he let Younis claim the one-down position when Shoaib Malik was an absolute beast -- probably the best batsman in Asian conditions at that position in the world.

Just choosing Sarfaraz as the captain is not enough.. senior culture has to stop and Hafeez should not be batting one-down when Babar has done nothing wrong. It's good as a player to be willing to adjust, but why should the batsman-in-form have to adjust for anyone?
 
Arthur wasn't sacked by South Africa, he resigned after differences with the board. Under Arthur, South Africa won their first series in England in over 40 years and achieved their first series victory in Australia in 2008. He brought in and helped oversee the development of players who've become world class and will go down as one of the best coaches SA have ever had.

In Australia he tried to change things too quickly but even there, he managed to introduce players like Warner and Starc into the Test team. Name me one international coach who's never had any setbacks in their career. Australia were going through a transitional phase with the retirements of key players and any coach would've found it tough.

As for the Test team, its been an extremely disappointing run of results but you neglect to mention unlike Waqar who was able to pad his stats in UAE, Arthur's only had ONE series at "home". PCB incompetence meant we had a crazy schedule last year with two tours back-to-back with hardly ANY preparation time.

The ONLY tour match in NZ we had was rained off and all Asian teams recently have struggled in NZ in very seam-friendly conditions but it was a disappointing tour I grant you. As for Australia, which Pakistan coach has succeeded there ? Believe me Waqar would've received the same beating.

And LOL at Waqar fans criticising Arthur's LOI record. That's like Kim Jong Un giving lectures about human rights. Need I remind you we lost 3-0 in Bangladesh, lost three consecutive ODI series in 2014 to Sri Lanka, Australia and New Zealand, crashed to #9 in the ODI rankings and #7 in T20 rankings, failed to win a SINGLE match in two series in NZ in 2015 and 2016, crashed out of group stages of Asia Cup AND the WT20. Arthur needs time to clear up the almighty mess Waqar left with the LOI teams.

All I see are excused which you wouldn't have afforded Waqar btw

And your logic regarding Waqar fans not being allowed to criticise Arthur's pathetic record is, for lack of a better word, stupid. Arthur's been a monumental failure messing up every other series and just because Waqar wasn't doing significantly better doesn't mean Arthur will get a free pass.

Waqar didn't leave any mess with the LOI teams. It was already a mess long before he came so stop manufacturing lies
 
All I see are excused which you wouldn't have afforded Waqar btw

And your logic regarding Waqar fans not being allowed to criticise Arthur's pathetic record is, for lack of a better word, stupid. Arthur's been a monumental failure messing up every other series and just because Waqar wasn't doing significantly better doesn't mean Arthur will get a free pass.

Waqar didn't leave any mess with the LOI teams. It was already a mess long before he came so stop manufacturing lies

Under Whatmore we won the 2012 Asia Cup, beat India, South Africa and West Indies all away. Waqar on the other hand plunged us to #9 in the world and was Banglawashed - how is this a lie ?

What monumental failure under Arthur ? We've won and lost the series we're expected to win and lose. You didn't think we were gonna beat England and Australia in ODIs did you ? Or beat Australia in Australia which even Imran's side couldn't do ?

ODI team will take time to turn around. We can either carry on hiring and firing coaches or give the guy a chance.
 
Under Whatmore we won the 2012 Asia Cup, beat India, South Africa and West Indies all away. Waqar on the other hand plunged us to #9 in the world and was Banglawashed - how is this a lie ?

What monumental failure under Arthur ? We've won and lost the series we're expected to win and lose. You didn't think we were gonna beat England and Australia in ODIs did you ? Or beat Australia in Australia which even Imran's side couldn't do ?

ODI team will take time to turn around. We can either carry on hiring and firing coaches or give the guy a chance.

by the end of Whatmore's era our ODI side had plunged to worrying depths and the shitshow at CT 2013 was the final nail in the coffin for him and his days were numbered from then. Get your timelines right

the fact is we have been blown away in england and Aus odis with no upward trajectory in performance
 
Once again a terrific post by [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

Great analysis and I must say most of what you said seems to be very correct.
 
I don't know.

I mean, there appears to be no better option than Mickey for us at the moment, but the way he moved Babar from #3 and has been backing Hafeez is pretty ridiculous.

Would like to hear from [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

I think Mickey is doing a terrific job.

The Pakistan coaching job is a potentially great one, because the bowling talent always comes through, in a way that only Australia and South Africa can match.

But the job is jinxed by politics. And the Homeworkgate Arthur would have talked himself out of a job by now - but this version is a mature man who has learned his lessons well.

You only need to read Mickey Arthur's book to know his formula: a young team, maximum 2 players aged 30-32 and nobody older. Fit, hard-working players.

You also know that if a player - like Herschelle Gibbs - is a potential match winner who goes astray but doesn't play political games, he will get more of a chance.

In effect, Mickey Arthur needed to ease Misbah, Younis, Hafeez, Sohail and Imran out of the Test team. He needed to make Babar Azam the key batsman, with Sami Aslam brought through too. He probably also needs to replace Yasir Shah with Shadab Khan to literally rejuvenate the team. And he needed to bring Sharjeel Khan through too.

He also needed to bring fast bowling all-rounders through.

And he needed to maintain a good working relationship with Shaharyar Khan, Najam Sethi and - most challenging - Inzamam and Misbah.

The Inzamam relationship has obvious challenges. Not only is Inzamam not very intelligent, he knows hardly anything about domestic cricket and is far too conservative to hold a job which really is essentially about the constant replacement of older players with younger ones. But Mickey Arthur treats him with a respect that he really has not earned (as a selector as opposed to a former batsman) and the relationship is working as well as it can with such an unqualified Chief Selector.

The Misbah relationship is even more challenging. He is a smart guy who is obsessed with cricket and can't bear to retire even though his batting handicaps the team. But he is also supremely clueless about how to succeed outside Asia, and insists upon a team which is unbalanced (4 bowlers means 3 exhausted and slow quick bowlers), has too many elderly members, and worst of all Misbah sets fields outside Asia which completely cripple his bowlers.

But Mickey is smart nowadays. He knew that he couldn't just wait a year for Misbah to self-destruct as an elderly batsman and hopeless skipper outside Asia. He couldn't do that because Misbah's total obsession with cricket makes his swift post-cricket elevation to a senior management position an absolute certainty.

So Mickey has treated Misbah with respect and deference. He has made no comments about his dreadful batting in Australia and New Zealand. Made no comments about his demands for geriatric has-beens to be picked. Made no comments about the ridiculous field placings. Kept quiet about a has-been refusing to retire.
 
Hmm well said [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION].

However, what do you have to say about Mickey first ordering for Hafeez's selection, and now pushing for Rahat? Also, how did Mickey allow Kamran & Shehzad to start every game and open ahead of Fakhar Zaman? Why were Shinwari, Zakir, Fahim not given any games at all, and why did Tanvir start the T20Is, let alone get selected?

Also, what type of moves do you see Arthur making within the next year?
 
Hmm well said [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION].

However, what do you have to say about Mickey first ordering for Hafeez's selection, and now pushing for Rahat? Also, how did Mickey allow Kamran & Shehzad to start every game and open ahead of Fakhar Zaman? Why were Shinwari, Zakir, Fahim not given any games at all, and why did Tanvir start the T20Is, let alone get selected?

Also, what type of moves do you see Arthur making within the next year?

1. Mohammad Hafeez: I'm clear that Arthur wants him nowhere near the Test team, but knows that he has influential friends - Misbah - and is trying to give Hafeez the chance to play himself out of contention.

2. Rahat Ali: I think Arthur sees that he is the least bad option. Imran Khan is comically slow. Sohail Khan is an absolute joke after the First Innings. Hasan Ali is too short to have a safe defensive length to bowl.

Rahat is tall enough, quick enough and swings it enough. But like Yasir Shah, he has the brain of a flea, and whereas Waqar could coach him session by session - like Mushtaq Ahmed did with Yasir Shah - without his mentor to think for him he struggles.

3. The other squad players.
Kamran Akmal gets picked due to the lack of other power hitters.

Fakhar Zaman: I watched the QEA Final. He's clearly inferior to Imam and especially to Salman Butt, but at 32 Arthur rightly sees no point in bringing back Butt.

Faheem Ashraf: it was instantly obvious in the QEA Final that he is too short, too slow and has a terrible bowling action. Mickey will have seen him in the nets in Guyana and thought "why on earth do they send me a club quality cricketer like this?"
 
by the end of Whatmore's era our ODI side had plunged to worrying depths and the shitshow at CT 2013 was the final nail in the coffin for him and his days were numbered from then. Get your timelines right

the fact is we have been blown away in england and Aus odis with no upward trajectory in performance

After CT13, we beat WI and SAF away and SL in UAE so how was it the final nail in the coffin ?

If anything Whatmore got sacked for our Test form but he blows Waqar out of the water in ODIs.
 
After CT13, we beat WI and SAF away and SL in UAE so how was it the final nail in the coffin ?

If anything Whatmore got sacked for our Test form but he blows Waqar out of the water in ODIs.

His days were numbered since the CT 2013. Everyone knew PCB were just waiting for his contract to end. Obviously not winning a single Test series home or away and even drawing Zimbabwe was the main reason no disputing that

Also stop putting words in my mouth. Seems like a habit. Nowhere have I claimed that Waqar even remotely had a better record in ODIs than Whatmore. Infact Whatmore had some good marquee series wins. Only thing I did say was that the decline of our ODI side has already started in Whatmores era and that is fact. It is true however that Waqar helped fix the test team left by Whatmore and which is being destroyed now.
 
His days were numbered since the CT 2013. Everyone knew PCB were just waiting for his contract to end. Obviously not winning a single Test series home or away and even drawing Zimbabwe was the main reason no disputing that

Also stop putting words in my mouth. Seems like a habit. Nowhere have I claimed that Waqar even remotely had a better record in ODIs than Whatmore. Infact Whatmore had some good marquee series wins. Only thing I did say was that the decline of our ODI side has already started in Whatmores era and that is fact. It is true however that Waqar helped fix the test team left by Whatmore and which is being destroyed now.
The decline for the ODI side started apparently @ end of Whatmores tenure but the decline of the Pakistani test side started once Arthur took over and not at end of Waqars tenure eh? Before you say that the results speak for themselves, all you had to do was see that most of Pakistan clearly wasn't capable of batting in NZ (and aus) conditions, they just so happened to get exposed during Arthurs tenure.

Pure hypocrisy.
 
The decline for the ODI side started apparently @ end of Whatmores tenure but the decline of the Pakistani test side started once Arthur took over and not at end of Waqars tenure eh? Before you say that the results speak for themselves, all you had to do was see that most of Pakistan clearly wasn't capable of batting in NZ (and aus) conditions, they just so happened to get exposed during Arthurs tenure.

Pure hypocrisy.

How come they were able to bat in England?

also our batting did ok in Aus. It was our toothless bowling which let us down

btw i do hold waqar responsible for failing to revive odi side
 
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How come they were able to bat in England?

also our batting did ok in Aus. It was our toothless bowling which let us down

btw i do hold waqar responsible for failing to revive odi side
Whenever the ball moved about in England, the Pakistanis fell like a pack of cards (bar Sami and Azhar who both happened to do decent in NZ too).

Better teams have failed against Aus, with bowlers like Rahat, Amir, Imran and Wahab, what did you expect? Even the matches won against us were due to Yasir firing and on more SC style wickets.

And the less said about Waqar in ODIs, the better. It was a disaster.

Not saying Mickey is perfect (quite flawed) but he's still a 100x better than Waqar.
 
Whenever the ball moved about in England, the Pakistanis fell like a pack of cards (bar Sami and Azhar who both happened to do decent in NZ too).

Better teams have failed against Aus, with bowlers like Rahat, Amir, Imran and Wahab, what did you expect? Even the matches won against us were due to Yasir firing and on more SC style wickets.

And the less said about Waqar in ODIs, the better. It was a disaster.

Not saying Mickey is perfect (quite flawed) but he's still a 100x better than Waqar.

no he's not

he is on the worst losing streak in the history of Pakistan test cricket

he holds record for conceding most ever runs in an ODI
 
no he's not

he is on the worst losing streak in the history of Pakistan test cricket

he holds record for conceding most ever runs in an ODI
He's on the worst losing streak because Pakistan happened to have tours to Australia and NZ as opposed to their usual hiding spot in the UAE. It doesn't take a genius to know that Pakistan lack the players to win matches there.

yes yes and Hasan Ali holds record for worst economy ever in ODI, (if am not wrong?) He should also be kicked out of the ODI team, the worthless pile of garbage.
 
He's on the worst losing streak because Pakistan happened to have tours to Australia and NZ as opposed to their usual hiding spot in the UAE. It doesn't take a genius to know that Pakistan lack the players to win matches there.

yes yes and Hasan Ali holds record for worst economy ever in ODI, (if am not wrong?) He should also be kicked out of the ODI team, the worthless pile of garbage.

Sir we had not lost a series against NZ in 31 years until Mickey sahab came along. You are combining Aus with NZ even though our performance in NZ has been excellent over the years and we have never done as bad as we did on this tour.
 
Sir we had not lost a series against NZ in 31 years until Mickey sahab came along. You are combining Aus with NZ even though our performance in NZ has been excellent over the years and we have never done as bad as we did on this tour.
And you hadn't lost a match to the Bangladesh in god knows how long, how did that turn out with Mr wiki?

You guys aren't world beaters who'd wallop NZ in NZ anymore, times change. Pakistan is an average side and losing to NZ on those green mambas sounds about right for Pakistans capabilities.
 
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He's on the worst losing streak because Pakistan happened to have tours to Australia and NZ as opposed to their usual hiding spot in the UAE. It doesn't take a genius to know that Pakistan lack the players to win matches there.

yes yes and Hasan Ali holds record for worst economy ever in ODI, (if am not wrong?) He should also be kicked out of the ODI team, the worthless pile of garbage.

lol this tour down under wasnt the first time in history that Pakistan did that. we have done the NZ+Aus tour many times and never had a hiding this bad. And funnily enough we faced sides which were both t their weakest in years (Aus having lost 5 out of last 6 tests) and NZ being all over the place. And comparatively we had a better side. But we not only lost but got humiliated.

Also... Funny how you ignore the WI home test series where we lost the last match and barely got over the line in the first match against the weakest test side to ever visit UAE for a tour.
 
And you hadn't lost a match to the Banglawalas in god knows how long, how did that turn out with Mr wiki?

You guys aren't world beaters who'd wallop NZ in NZ anymore, times change. Pakistan is an average side and losing to NZ on those green mambas sounds about right for Pakistans capabilities.

Vicky being bad, doesn't make Mickey automatically good or bad.

Are there only two coaches in the entire world, Mickey and Vicky?


I am seriously dismayed by this line of argument by Mickey fans that "Mickey might be bad but Vicky wasn't any better either" :facepalm:



We went into the NZ series as the number one ranked side (or maybe we dropped to number 2) but weren't anywhere close to being an "average" side. Heck far worse Pakistani sides have done a lot better in NZ.
 
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And you hadn't lost a match to the Banglawalas in god knows how long, how did that turn out with Mr wiki?

You guys aren't world beaters who'd wallop NZ in NZ anymore, times change. Pakistan is an average side and losing to NZ on those green mambas sounds about right for Pakistans capabilities.

Pakistan was not an average side. We did well in England and were #1 not too long ago

The Aus and NZ sides in fact were very average.

Basically these sides were at their weakest for years and we had our most settled line up in years.

Not only did we lose which was disappointing but the manner of capitulation was embarassing

And you keep ignoring the simple fact that there has been a dip in Test performance overall. We barely beat a third grade West Indies side in UAE whereas only a year or so before that we were giving sides such as Australia and England a hiding of their lives in UAE
 
Vicky being bad, doesn't make Mickey automatically good or bad.

Are there only two coaches in the entire world, Mickey and Vicky?


I am seriously dismayed by this line of argument by Mickey fans that "Mickey might be bad but Vicky wasn't any better either" :facepalm:



We went into the NZ series as the number one ranked side (or maybe we dropped to number 2) but weren't anywhere close to being an "average" side. Heck far worse Pakistani sides have done a lot better in NZ.

That is the standard response of these Mickey brigade members

Saal hogaya laikin abhi bhi Waqar Younis pe har cheez deflect karni hai!

This is all the more hilarious (and pathetic on their part) that right after we drew the England away series they all said Mickey Arthur deserved a lot of the credit as if he had some magic wand to do that in weeks. When Mickey Arthur himself said a lot of the credit goes to the previous management, he was just being 'humble' according to this crew. Seems like Mickey Arthur's influence works in reverse. As more time passes it becomes Waqar's team while at the start it was his team.
 
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[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

1) This is Mickey vs Waqar that I am arguing, why don't you actually look at what I originally said. Perhaps rather than labelling me a Mickey fan, why don't you both learn some comprehension skills.

2) Losing to Windies is more so down to the downfall of Yasir (which ironically enough is one of the main reasons for Pakistans UAE dominance). That in itself is due to the lack of Mushtaq rather than Mickey or Waqar.

3)This Australia side is by no means average, am I the only one who watched the India vs Aus series here? They are arguably the most promising side in cricket atm... Stop making bullsh1t up to suit your agenda for Wiki bhai. NZ on the other hand has the pacers(i.e. Southee, Boult and Wagner) to exploit the NZ conditions, as opposed to Pakistan who has Imran, Rahat and Amir lol. It's as simple as that.

4) I did not say Mickey deserves credit for England either smh. Comprehension skills lacking again.

Having said all this, I don't think Mickey is amazing either, I've already said that Mickey is 'quite flawed'. . Dropping Sohail and Sami in their respective top formats was a big blunder.
 
To all the armchair critics of MA, who do you think should replace him?
 
His days were numbered since the CT 2013. Everyone knew PCB were just waiting for his contract to end. Obviously not winning a single Test series home or away and even drawing Zimbabwe was the main reason no disputing that

Also stop putting words in my mouth. Seems like a habit. Nowhere have I claimed that Waqar even remotely had a better record in ODIs than Whatmore. Infact Whatmore had some good marquee series wins. Only thing I did say was that the decline of our ODI side has already started in Whatmores era and that is fact. It is true however that Waqar helped fix the test team left by Whatmore and which is being destroyed now.

Your claim that the ODI team was declining to "worrying depths" under Whatmore is not backed up by the facts. Whatmore after the CT won ALL of his last four ODI series - away to WI, Zim, South Africa and in UAE against Sri Lanka, so it wasn't some club side Waqar inherited.

It is also mind blowing that you say "Waqar didn't leave any mess with the LOI teams" - so sinking to #9 in ODIs, putting in doubt even QUALIFYING for the next WC, and #7 in T20s was no biggie. Nor was humiliatingly crashing out of the group stages of the Asia Cup and WT20.

An LOI team that got Banglawashed for the FIRST TIME ever and losing to SL, Aus (another Waqar Whitewash) and NZ in the space of FOUR months in 2014 wasn't a mess that Arthur inherited.

Waqar crashed the car and now you guys are complaining Arthur hasn't fixed it quick enough :))

To all the armchair critics of MA, who do you think should replace him?

Obviously its Waqar, I mean the way his diehards speak its as if not only did we win the Cricket World Cup under him but the Ryder Cup, the Grand National, the FIFA World Cup, UEFA Champions League and the World Hockey Championship.
 
Your claim that the ODI team was declining to "worrying depths" under Whatmore is not backed up by the facts. Whatmore after the CT won ALL of his last four ODI series - away to WI, Zim, South Africa and in UAE against Sri Lanka, so it wasn't some club side Waqar inherited.

It is also mind blowing that you say "Waqar didn't leave any mess with the LOI teams" - so sinking to #9 in ODIs, putting in doubt even QUALIFYING for the next WC, and #7 in T20s was no biggie. Nor was humiliatingly crashing out of the group stages of the Asia Cup and WT20.

An LOI team that got Banglawashed for the FIRST TIME ever and losing to SL, Aus (another Waqar Whitewash) and NZ in the space of FOUR months in 2014 wasn't a mess that Arthur inherited.

Waqar crashed the car and now you guys are complaining Arthur hasn't fixed it quick enough :))



Obviously its Waqar, I mean the way his diehards speak its as if not only did we win the Cricket World Cup under him but the Ryder Cup, the Grand National, the FIFA World Cup, UEFA Champions League and the World Hockey Championship.



I think in your frustration with Mickey being called out for the con man he is, you are losing sight of what people are saying and coming to your own conclusions. Please stop making things up and fabricating claims
 
All he is trying to keep his job rather than bringing some positive changes in Pakistan cricket culture. Always praising Misbah, YK, Hafeez and now asking for Sir Rahat back in the team. We need a strong coach who would stamp his authority for the good of Pakistan cricket and would not be hesitant of showing the door to non performing oldies.
 
All he is trying to keep his job rather than bringing some positive changes in Pakistan cricket culture. Always praising Misbah, YK, Hafeez and now asking for Sir Rahat back in the team. We need a strong coach who would stamp his authority for the good of Pakistan cricket and would not be hesitant of showing the door to non performing oldies.

The thing with these foreign coaches like Mickey is that they say the right things which sway some folks as can be seen on this thread but he does completely opposite.

Backing seniors is a sure shot way of prolonging your coaching career as a Pakistani coach. Now if Mickey was as good as the posters claim he would have called for the dropping of folks like Hafeez, Tanvir, Wahab, Rahat etc but that would get a negative reaction from the media and influential folks within the PCB hence he backs these TTF while claiming that youngsters will be introduced and the 'culture of the team will be changed'.

One year is sufficient time to start making changes but who are we kidding Mickey played Muhammad Hafeez at the number three position by displacing Babar Azam. This should tell you about the competency of the man, or lack off.
 
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The thing with these foreign coaches like Mickey is that they say the right things which sway some folks as can be seen on this thread but he does completely opposite.

Backing seniors is a sure shot way of prolonging your coaching career as a Pakistani coach. Now if Mickey was as good as the posters claim he would have called for the dropping of folks like Hafeez, Tanvir, Wahab, Rahat etc but that would get a negative reaction from the media and influential folks within the PCB hence he backs these TTF while claiming that youngsters will be introduced and the 'culture of the team will be changed'.

One year is sufficient time to start making changes but who are we kidding Mickey the con-man played Muhammad Hafeez at the number three position by displacing Babar Azam. This should tell you about the competency of the man, or lack off.


Who put Babar at number 3 in the 1st place LOL? It quickly changed after 1 game, I don't agree with the decision but it could have been down to try and move Babar out of his comfort zone.

Other Pakistan coaches would have kept national treasure at number 3 till 2019 World Cup and Babar would have been kept at 4/5.
 
Coming back to the thread topic

The question asks whether Mickey Arthur is the ideal coach? Of course you can have opinions about him and his lack of impact but surely it's hard to rationalise the thought that he is the IDEAL coach. Meaning if you had a pick of any coach out there you would pick him of all people!?!! People need to be honest with themselves. Besides its never sat well with me that he has another job whilst being Pakistan coach. Is there another example of the head coach of a national side simultaneously being the head coach of a franchise?

For me the ideal coach would be Tom Moody. There were rumours that he was coming after WT20 2016 and I was so ready for him to take over. What a guy!
 
Coach's job is also to get the right guys in/kick out non performing ones.

Inzi has given full kick out / select rights to coach and captain, and he's failing badly at that.

Just look at the long line of accumulators we have.

The coach has to pick from the squad given to him by the selectors. Not his fault Inzamam keeps bringing backs accumulators and TTFs.
 
I don't think coach really matters that much in Cricket like it does in Football. There are no transfers or substitutions to be made in international Cricket. As Pak players don't speak much English it is always better for them to have a local man at the helm who they can easily understand. Really, it is a thankless job where no matter who is in charge he will struggle due to all the politics associated with Pak cricket. Ultimately, it makes no difference at all as to who is the coach, we did not lose to Australia and New Zealand because of Mickey Arthur.
 
Coming back to the thread topic

The question asks whether Mickey Arthur is the ideal coach? Of course you can have opinions about him and his lack of impact but surely it's hard to rationalise the thought that he is the IDEAL coach. Meaning if you had a pick of any coach out there you would pick him of all people!?!! People need to be honest with themselves. Besides its never sat well with me that he has another job whilst being Pakistan coach. Is there another example of the head coach of a national side simultaneously being the head coach of a franchise?

For me the ideal coach would be Tom Moody. There were rumours that he was coming after WT20 2016 and I was so ready for him to take over. What a guy!

And what credentials does Moody have apart from coaching in mickey mouse leagues??
 
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