Is Mohammad Amir Pakistan's Ishant Sharma?

[Leo23]

Ishant Sharma made a name for himself in australia early in his career where his pace and bounce troubled the australian batsmen particularly the legendary ponting who was all at sea against him. his stats were not good but he was applauded for the way he troubled the australian batsmen especially at perth

however the success was short lived because ishant sharma got exposed on the indian/asian pitches where his bounce was negated and he did not have the skills to take wickets on these unfriendly pitches

but like amir he did have success in west indies and new zealand where he has taken a few 5 wicket hauls

he had good spells every now and then but the consistency was not there and he failed to prove to be a wicket taker which is why his average is well above 30s

over the years he was reduced to a work horse type bowler who bowled enough overs to keep the likes of ashwin,jadeja,shami etc fresh bcoz they were the ones taking wickets and making an impact

however the best moment of his career came in england in 2014 when he produced a match winning 7 wicket haul on a green pitch to lead india to a famous win in england

mohammad amir's career shows a similar trend..

he made a name for himself when he bowled beautifully in england but his performance on flat asian wickets have flattered him. much like ishant he had good moments in australia in 2010 (especially at mcg) but his overall stats were ordinary

he struggled in sri lanka in 2009 and he has been struggling in the uae as well

he also failed in england last yr when the conditions were not as good for bowling as in 2010

lets take a look at Amir's mediocre test record so far:

in australia he averages 36
in new zealand he averages 36
in england he averages 27 (42 on last tour)
in west indies he averages 17

but here is the eye opener. his record in ASIA:

in sri lanka he averages 43
in the uae he averages 50

that is a pathetic record and anyone who compares him to wasim akram should look at this.

these are the pitches where wasim bowled magic spells and won games for pakistan. now before ppl come up with the usual dropped catches nonsense,lets not forget that fielding has always been an issue for our bowlers

wasim,imran,waqar,akhtar etc all had plenty of catches dropped but they found ways to take wickets in spite of that

amir has not been able to do so and he doesn't look threatening at all. unfortunately for him he will not have the luxury of bowling in england all the time and the way he is going,3-4 more series in asia and his bowling average will be touching 35-36,similar to ishant sharma


in odis the story is not that different from ishant sharma either.both have failed to take a 5 wicket haul in odis and both have had their best moments in ct finals in england. ishant sharma turned the game around in the 2013 final with key wickets and amir's opening spell killed india's chances in 2017

it is time we stop hyping him and give him golden boy treatment.forget wasim,he is becoming our ishant sharma.

the one pacer who deserves all the hype and respect is hasan ali who has outperformed amir in all formats over the last yr,and is the real leader of our attack.

the dropped catches excuse and the tough conditions etc excuse doesn't work for him because he performs no matter what. even in these tough conditions he has picked up 2 top order wickets and has looked miles better than amir

 

[Bilal7]

Amir is no longer going to reach the level of Wasim, that much was clear ever since he was banned for five years. That time away from the game arrested (no pun intended) his development and also robbed him of a bunch of wickets.

He will however, still become a great bowler in his own right with an average in the 24-27 range in both formats, 300+ wickets in each and plenty of match-winning performances, InshAllah.

Since he's no Wasim, it's understandable that he's been struggling in the UAE and Sri Lanka. He hasn't developed reverse-swing yet and lacks the explosive pace of Waqar or Akhtar.

With time, however, he should be more successful in Asia as well.

 

[Rana]

I think the Pitch curators in the UAE are not doing anyone any favours by simply rolling out roads for every game that is played there. Pretty soon Test cricket will die in the UAE, forget Amir's ability of not becoming an ATG because of these flat roads!

 

[sachin100]

If he cannot take wickets of Srilankan batsman even then why so much fuss over mid thirtees average player

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

As I said in other thread created by some random Indian:

Ishant Sharma is a legend and trudlers like Amir should not be compared to him.

Likes of Srinath, Prasad, Shami, Yadav and Kumars are in Ishant's league

 

[sachin100]

As I said in other thread created by some random Indian:

Ishant Sharma is a legend and trudlers like Amir should not be compared to him.

Likes of Srinath, Prasad, Shami, Yadav and Kumars are in Ishant's league

In what way amir is a better bowler than others u mentioned?

 

[ToeCrusher2]

I think the Pitch curators in the UAE are not doing anyone any favours by simply rolling out roads for every game that is played there. Pretty soon Test cricket will die in the UAE, forget Amir's ability of not becoming an ATG because of these flat roads!

Pitch curators in Australia, Sri Lanka and NZ also didn't to any favours to Amir, it seems

 

[sachin100]

So much hype for his spell defending a total of 340 runs. If that is his ceiling then its too low for an atg

 

[jnaveen1980]

This is the ultimate insult one can have. Getting compared with Ishant Naa he is better than that. But he used to bring the ball back into righties better. He is only half of what he used to be. He has a fluid action. He will come back better and stronger.

 

[sachin100]

He has nothing to show for his test exploits thats why his fan boys r bringing odi bowling. Even there he is not setting the world on fire

 

[Bilal7]

As long as Amir gives us a repeat of the CT final in the next Asia cup, WT20 and ODI WC, I don't even care what these Indians say about him.

He's owned their batting twice already and made Kohli admit his outstanding ability.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

On second thoughts, I think mohmmad amir is Irfan Pathan of Pakistan

 

[m.shah]

Legends don't perform in useless matches

 

[Varun]

I think the Pitch curators in the UAE are not doing anyone any favours by simply rolling out roads for every game that is played there. Pretty soon Test cricket will die in the UAE, forget Amir's ability of not becoming an ATG because of these flat roads!

How can you kill something t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶r̶e̶a̶d̶y̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶d̶ that was never alive to begin with?

 

[Bilal7]

If champions trophy is that important then india has repeatedly thrashed u like no tomorrow in icc tournaments.

12-0 is not even minnow level

Who cares about a few matches that didn't win India anything? The only ones that hurt were the 2007 WT20 and 2011 WC semi-final. The latest CT final has erased avenged those defeats and then some.

 

[Slog]

Ishant wishes he could be Amir

 

[lehen]

Both are of same level.Only difference is Ishant has no brains and Amir used up his all while getting out of the fixing scenario posing innocent and using his lack of education as a defense.Both are useless

 

[IndYeah1]

For all of Amir's so-called talent, if you compare performances of Ishant and Amir in their most recent test series in England, its not even close.

 

[Buffet]

Ishant has played a lot more games and averaged 36(??). Amir has played only 30 games or so and averages 32.

Both are not comparable right now.

 

[Leo23]

Ishant has played a lot more games and averaged 36(??). Amir has played only 30 games or so and averages 32.

Both are not comparable right now.

but he seems to be heading in his direction when you look at his 50+ average in asia which is where he will be playing most of his games

 

[King Kong]

If you look at both players stats and performances over the years, this thread doesn't look far away from the reality.

1. Both won Champions trophy for their respective teams (Ishant with 2 wickets in one over turned the game in 2013 CT while the same for Amir with 3 wickets up front in 2017 CT).

2. Both were below bar and flattered to deceive until the CT finals.

3. Both have atrocious stats in most countries. Amir might just edge out Ishant here as at least he has been decent in one country(England).

4. Both average above 30. It's 32 for Amir and 36 for Ishanth. But Amir played twice as many matches in his favorite nation(England) as the next one. So the overall average for Amir, despite being poor, is not as poor as Ishant's.

Overall, my rating would be 3/10 for Ishant and 4/10 for Amir. Amir is ahead of Ishant for now, but not by much though. He can definitely overtake Ishant in coming years if he keeps performing like this.

 

[Titan24]

In what way amir is a better bowler than others u mentioned?

None of them took the top order of a very good batting attack in an ICC tournament final.

 

[Titan24]

Every bowler of India turns out be another Ishant Sharma for them, look at th average of Buvi in ODI's.

 

[Buffet]

but he seems to be heading in his direction when you look at his 50+ average in asia which is where he will be playing most of his games

Amir is suitable for conditions in Eng. I don't think he has skills to do well in Asia. He needs to add few things to do well in Asia. Upping his pace a bit if he can't add other things. He got bowlers dream pitch in NZ and wasted it by bowling defensively. Averaging 35+ on those green pitches were poor returns for any pacer. He needs to attack more and not be content with bowling tight overs all the time.

 

[90MPH]

Yes an Indian legend like Ishant is ahead of him.

Indian trolls are out in full force, especially the phanity Amir gave thier India on June 18.

For that alone Amir is a Pak legend, regardless what he does now.

 

[Leo23]

Yes an Indian legend like Ishant is ahead of him.

Indian trolls are out in full force, especially the phanity Amir gave thier India on June 18.

For that alone Amir is a Pak legend, regardless what he does now.

dude there is more to cricket than a ct final

if giving phainty to arch rivals in tournaments is all that matters then every tom,dick and harry is an indian legend considering their record against us in world cups

perhaps suresh raina is a legend too (world cup 2011 and world cup 2015) and so is irfan pathan and munaf patel

nobody is trolling. it is a thread based on facts and amir's pathetic test record is worry for us. he can't seem to buy a wicket in asia where he will play most of his tests.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Every bowler of India turns out be another Ishant Sharma for them, look at th average of Buvi in ODI's. ������

At least bhuvi has a better average than amir in the format that matters

 

[CricFan2012]

Sad how some Pakistani fans have so much pride that they won't compare Amir to someone like Ishant.

Both are mediocre test bowlers, but Amir at least is great in LOI, and that is the format that will survive into the future and all that matters.

 

[Gubol123]

If you look at both players stats and performances over the years, this thread doesn't look far away from the reality.

1. Both won Champions trophy for their respective teams (Ishant with 2 wickets in one over turned the game in 2013 CT while the same for Amir with 3 wickets up front in 2017 CT).

2. Both were below bar and flattered to deceive until the CT finals.

3. Both have atrocious stats in most countries. Amir might just edge out Ishant here as at least he has been decent in one country(England).

4. Both average above 30. It's 32 for Amir and 36 for Ishanth. But Amir played twice as many matches in his favorite nation(England) as the next one. So the overall average for Amir, despite being poor, is not as poor as Ishant's.

Overall, my rating would be 3/10 for Ishant and 4/10 for Amir. Amir is ahead of Ishant for now, but not by much though. He can definitely overtake Ishant in coming years if he keeps performing like this.

That is probably the fairest assessment in the thread. Amir was good in England and WI where he has taken nearly 60% of his wickets. Ishant was good in WI where he has taken some 15% of his wickets. everywhere else both are crap.

 

[sachin100]

None of them took the top order of a very good batting attack in an ICC tournament final.

The same ishant Sharma has swinged the game for ind vs eng in final.

India has defended a score of less than 140 against the home side.

I agree amirs spell is good but not the deciding factor. U r batters set the game with a total above 330

 

[sachin100]

Haha. When someone questions his test bowling his fan boys quickly jump to odis and particularly ct final because his test returns are abysmal for an atg and once a generation bowler like amir

 

[Third_Umpire]

High praise for aamir being mentioned in the same sentence as all time legend Ishant Sharma. I rate ishant in the same league as lillee, holding, garner, etc so I personally don't see the comparison.

in fact all Indian pacers are in the all time legend category so I'd prefer to compare aamir to his peers from other nations.

 

[sachin100]

High praise for aamir being mentioned in the same sentence as all time legend Ishant Sharma. I rate ishant in the same league as lillee, holding, garner, etc so I personally don't see the comparison.

in fact all Indian pacers are in the all time legend category so I'd prefer to compare aamir to his peers from other nations.

But u r legend and atg amir has stats similar to or even worse than Indian seamers

 

[batman007]

my 1st post, I think he is injured and I don't understand why the team management is scared to go without him.

 

[Hasan123]

Amir is much better than Ishant LOL

 

[Thomaskutty]

Very rarely does he bowl brilliant spells like the one in CT final , infact sometimes Amir's bowling reminds me of Laxmi Balaji i.e lacking vigour and spring ..so the OP does have a point.

 

[sshakir411]

Love how fans of a country whose fastest bowler was Anil Kumble can talk about anything related to the subject. We will take the toothless Amir in tests, odis, and t20s, thank you for your concern.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yes an Indian legend like Ishant is ahead of him.

Indian trolls are out in full force, especially the phanity Amir gave thier India on June 18.

For that alone Amir is a Pak legend, regardless what he does now.

I remember Harbhajan singh whacked Aamir for a six to seal the asia cup final. Before final pretty much everyone was hyping about Hasan Ali not Aamir. Probably i was the only on weary of Aamir . So even Pak fans didn't rate him until that point. Besides you have to factor in he had like 340 runs behind him to defend.

 

[Titan24]

To my Indian friends its no use to cry over spilt milk. Amir did what he had to do and it cant be undone as we have the CT 17 trophy now.

So move on and stop bashing a guy who we know on both sides of the border is a pretty good talent.

And dont compare him with with bowlers who themselves wont even dare to compare them with Amir.

Amir is rated by experts all around the globe and he showed glimpses of that talent in CT 17 final. Yes he hasnt been consistent but every sportsman suffers a bad patch in his career.

 

[lehen]

On a serious note, One can not compare the best current Pakistan pacer to the worst current Indian pacer.Both are rubbish btw and should not be anywhere near the team

 

[AlizeeFan]

On a serious note, One can not compare the best current Pakistan pacer to the worst current Indian pacer.Both are rubbish btw and should not be anywhere near the team

He is not the best Pakistani pacer.

 

[Saj]

He's looked very ordinary so far in this Test match.

Bowling around mid 130s kph and has hardly swung the ball.

Seam position terrible and a number of technical issues.

 

[lehen]

Amir has always been a Max Mid 130s kph bowler, that is not the issue. his lack of swing is the issue. Many a times he has trundled at around 127 kph consistently.The swing is gone for a long time now

 

[Savak]

Amir has never done anything of note on flat unresponsive pitches, he cuts down on speed and immediately starts bowling slowly, within himself without any effort on flat unresponsive pitches. It turned out that he was not so talented or special after all.

 

[babajee]

Amir has never done anything of note on flat unresponsive pitches, he cuts down on speed and immediately starts bowling slowly, within himself without any effort on flat unresponsive pitches. It turned out that he was not so talented or special after all.

Bookmarked and saved for the future

 

[Lonewarrior]

wrong comparison. Ishant sharma should be compared to wasim akram.

 

[Saj]

The lack of swing was a concern.

Abbas was getting the ball to reverse yet nothing at all from Amir.

Even the Sri Lankan pacers were getting some reverse.

 

[htariq25]

Stop comparing some trundler who gets smashed by every1 team to Amir plz.

 

[Dingolfy]

Stop comparing some trundler who gets smashed by every1 team to Amir plz.

Amir has been trundling in Tests for a while.

 

[babajee]

Stop comparing some trundler who gets smashed by every1 team to Amir plz.

Yes bhai. Amir is a champion bowler and as [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] saab said, he is the best bowler in the world. He’s just a bit out of rhythm at the moment but he’ll be back firing in no time inshallah. I’m sure azhar mehmood will correct the bad habits that have crept into his game.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Amir is struggling in this test for sure, but I can't believe this thread is created for the same bowler who nailed a billion hopes shut in that CT final. Three premiere batsmen in prime form, reduced to rubble in one of the biggest matches of his career so far.

Some of the criticism on this forum is really uncalled for. Amir is a very good bowler who will have bad days just like every other bowler in international cricket right now.

 

[Ellipsism]

His average in test cricket since his come back is 37, take out the Windies, whom he averages 24 against, largely due to his exploits in the 1st test of the last series (considering that he hadn't taken more than 4 wickets in an innings before his exploits in the 1st test against WI it looks like more of an aberration, if we take out this outlier he averages 33 against the mighty Windies ) )

Test average against non-minnows (WI) since his return is 46, this is despite playing 87% of his games outside of Asia.

Now you tell me whether critism is warranted or not.

 

[babajee]

His average in test cricket since his come back is 37, take out the Windies, whom he averages 24 against, largely due to his exploits in the 1st test of the last series (considering that he hadn't taken more than 4 wickets in an innings before his exploits in the 1st test against WI it looks like more of an aberration, if we take out this outlier he averages 33 against the mighty Windies ) )

Test average against non-minnows (WI) since his return is 46, this is despite playing 87% of his games outside of Asia.

Now you tell me whether critism is warranted or not.

Drop catches

 

[Ellipsism]

Drop catches

Drop catches are a part of the game, every bowler has to deal with them, and I don't intend to dwell into hypothetical averages.

 

[Usman Chadda]

His average in test cricket since his come back is 37, take out the Windies, whom he averages 24 against, largely due to his exploits in the 1st test of the last series (considering that he hadn't taken more than 4 wickets in an innings before his exploits in the 1st test against WI it looks like more of an aberration, if we take out this outlier he averages 33 against the mighty Windies ) )

Test average against non-minnows (WI) since his return is 46, this is despite playing 87% of his games outside of Asia.

Now you tell me whether critism is warranted or not.

Wasn't he getting absolutely pummelled on here before that final aswell? Name me a Pakistani bowler right now who could produce such a spell in an important final?

Im disappointed by his lack of performance in test cricket so far aswell, just like any other Pakistani fan right now. But Amir's skill-set does give you hope that he might just turn it around and become the strike-bowler Pakistan cricket craves for.

 

[Kroll]

How the mighty have fallen, when you're having to compare to the likes of Munaf Patel, Laxmi Balaji and of course the legendary Ishant Sharma. What next, Ashok Dinda and Vinay Kumar?

 

[Ellipsism]

Wasn't he getting absolutely pummelled on here before that final aswell? Name me a Pakistani bowler right now who could produce such a spell in an important final?

Im disappointed by his lack of performance in test cricket so far aswell, just like any other Pakistani fan right now. But Amir's skill-set does give you hope that he might just turn it around and become the strike-bowler Pakistan cricket craves for.

I don't think anyone doubts his ability but the fact of the matter is we can't sit here waiting for him to deliver what we know he is capable of. It would be like playing Wahab in every game on the basis that he is able to create a match winning spell once in a blue moon.

It's also the lack of effort, one only has to look at Amir's average pace in 1st innings against SL, it was barely 130 km/h. Whilst someone like Hasan ALI who is currently slower than Amir (Hasan is yet to maximise his pace potential) bowled his heart, bent his back and reaped the awards whilst having an average pace of 134-136 km/h.

Mohammad Amir seems to be content with simply floating the ball up at 130 km/h on a 5th stump line, one only needs to looks at a couple of his pitch maps to verify this.

 

[Gubol123]

He is not yet, but if works hard he might become Pakistanis Ishant

 

[lehen]

Only PAce bowler from both sides to not manage a single wicket. Bowling at an average speed around 125 kph and throwing away wicket when just a little bit of common sense was required,I think his days as an International cricketer are limited now in Test cricket

 

[Rightarmfast]

Ishant looks threatening and bowls much quicker than Amir in Tests. No comparisons. Amir could be compared to someone like a stoinis or someone

 

[Buffet]

Ishant has a huge lead even now, but one wicket from Amir could have won the test for Pakistan. Often PPers only focus on match winning performances of many players and ignore match losing performances from the same player. Going wicket-less is a contributing factor in losing matches. If I am right then all other pacers picked 1-2 wickets.

 

[Talented]

Stop comparing some trundler who gets smashed by every1 team to Amir plz.

Amir has been trundling a lot. Ishant still maintains pace even though he gets smashed.

 

[Talented]

Amir is better than Ishant. Don't know why he is holding himself back. He bowls defensive and trundles a lot.Apart from that CT final match he has been ordinary.

 

[lehen]

Ishant is garbage but he is 6-8 Kph quicker than Amir on an average in tests. Amir is bowling at the speeds of Nuwan Joysa tbh

 

[Buffet]

Amir is better than Ishant. Don't know why he is holding himself back. He bowls defensive and trundles a lot.Apart from that CT final match he has been ordinary.

Well, most bowlers look million dollar when they are defending 340 in ODI or 600 in tests.

 

[R0H1T]

Wasn't he getting absolutely pummelled on here before that final aswell? Name me a Pakistani bowler right now who could produce such a spell in an important final?

Im disappointed by his lack of performance in test cricket so far aswell, just like any other Pakistani fan right now. But Amir's skill-set does give you hope that he might just turn it around and become the strike-bowler Pakistan cricket craves for.

It's like you totally forgot Sharmaji's spell in the last CT final, defending a paltry score. Pretty much anyone can defend 300+ in a CT final, how many times have you seen 120 odd defended in 20 overs, with ODI rules?

Sure Ishant is the worst pacer to play 70 odd tests, but to bring Amir's CT spell to prove a point is just

 

[ToeCrusher2]

I would take Ishant over Amir every day of the week

 

[shaz619]

Then what does that say about the Motorway King Kohli who keeps getting out to him we must begin to wonder if he is better then Imran Farhat then

 

[jnaveen1980]

Amir was developing well when Asif was around. This is like starting all over again. Pace has dipped. Variations are not enough. Prior to CT final not even pal fans expected much from him. He lacks the sting, potency. He still retains the fluid action. So he can still come back.

 

[sachin100]

Then what does that say about the Motorway King Kohli who keeps getting out to him we must begin to wonder if he is better then Imran Farhat then

only once he got him out.may be u r seeing his virtual performances

 

[shaz619]

only once he got him out.may be u r seeing his virtual performances

I saw him make Kohli look like a tailender in back to back balls during the CT final, I think you might have missed it while you went for a quick bite

 

[sachin100]

I saw him make Kohli look like a tailender in back to back balls during the CT final, I think you might have missed it while you went for a quick bite

Yes but he got him only once isn't it?

What do u make of pak team that was beaten black and blue by kohli in all the previous matches?

When a minnow occasionally wins a match it looks like jackpot and will gloat like anything because they know it cannot happen in future

 

[shaz619]

Yes but he got him only once isn't it?

What do u make of pak team that was beaten black and blue by kohli in all the previous matches?

When a minnow occasionally wins a match it looks like jackpot and will gloat like anything because they know it cannot happen in future

But Pakistan won the Champions Trophy Gold at the expense of Kohli's spectacular failure

 

[IndYeah1]

Is this a thread to insult Amir or Ishant?

 

[Gubol123]

Is this a thread to insult Amir or Ishant?

more and more it is looking like an insult to Ishant

 

[sachin100]

But Pakistan won the Champions Trophy Gold at the expense of Kohli's spectacular failure

I accept that pak won fair and square. In the same way u accept pak is a rubbish team which lost all 5 matches against india before it in which kohli played a starring role.

 

[Savak]

Amir is a chicken hearted individual in reality, only shows adrenaline when things are going his way but goes into a meek shell when nothing is in his favor. It is a disgrace to compare the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar and even Shoaib to this guy.

 

[Ellipsism]

Since his return Amir has gone 9 innings without a wicket in 15 test matches.

Overall this is his third wicket less test match since his return.

Now, I don't care whether if you're the second coming of Marshall that is simply unacceptable, and what makes it worse is that this is the guy that is supposedly leading our attack. I see no other option but to drop him, maybe that would I still some motivation or drive to perform, because currently he seems content with bowling 129-132 km/h pies on a 5th stump line to protect his economy.

 

[waleed88]

Since his return Amir has gone 9 innings without a wicket in 15 test matches.

Overall this is his third wicket less test match since his return.

Now, I don't care whether if you're the second coming of Marshall that is simply unacceptable, and what makes it worse is that this is the guy that is supposedly leading our attack. I see no other option but to drop him, maybe that would I still some motivation or drive to perform, because currently he seems content with bowling 129-132 km/h pies on a 5th stump line to protect his economy.

Thats the most by any Pakistani bowler in the past year. Can you see how he is compared to other bowlers in the world?

 

[shaz619]

I accept that pak won fair and square. In the same way u accept pak is a rubbish team which lost all 5 matches against india before it in which kohli played a starring role.

But in the end Pakistan took the big one home a Champions Trophy, while India took home the Indrah Ghandi Diamond Plated Kacha Trophy