Is Pakistan Cricket team heading in the same direction as Bangladesh of early 2000s?

[iniqbal223]

Last 2 years have been worst as a Pak cricket fan; and even can draw parallels with Bangladesh team of early 2000

1) That Bangladesh team used to win, one-off games against better teams
2) Always arranged series with Zimbabwe and both teams win some games and lose some games; what worse is Zimbabwe of early 2000 was still much better than what it is today
3) Fans cheering the one off victories against good teams; approving the same timid mindset of team management
4) Management coming with all kinds of excuses when they lose; But sound bombastic before any big game (to only lose their face later on)
5) Rampant favoritism and bias

 

[RyanRyan10]

Overreaction.

Even Mamoon isn't this negative

 

[Rana]

With Misbah in the frame, anything is possible!

As Major Asif Ghafoor would say: “Be prepared for any eventuality!”

 

[Shafi]

Depends how long Misbah and Waqar stay. If they stay 10 years we may loose ODI/Test status.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

It’s not just the performances, it’s the fact that our bowlers start celebrating like footballers when they get a wicket when the game is practically over.

Imagine Argentina losing 3-0, and then Messi scores a 90th minute goal and takes his shirt off. That’s basically what our bowlers do, and it’s beyond embarrassing.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Bangladesh is never beating South Africa in South Africa, even if only fourteen year old kids end up playing for South Africa.

 

[Rana]

It’s not just the performances, it’s the fact that our bowlers start celebrating like footballers when they get a wicket when the game is practically over.

Imagine Argentina losing 3-0, and then Messi scores a 90th minute goal and takes his shirt off. That’s basically what our bowlers do, and it’s beyond embarrassing.

Shaheen Shah doing the Shahid Afridi celebration when he gets Phil Salt....

Your Ace bowler setting such low standards for himself. Can you imagine Trent Boult or Rabada celebrating like that in such a situation? They would probably do it if they get 4-5 and bowl out the main batsmen. But PCB is grooming kids like Shaheen to become a captain in the future!

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Shaheen Shah doing the Shahid Afridi celebration when he gets Phil Salt....

Your Ace bowler setting such low standards for himself. Can you imagine Trent Boult or Rabada celebrating like that in such a situation? They would probably do it if they get 4-5 and bowl out the main batsmen. But PCB is grooming kids like Shaheen to become a captain in the future!

Such a loser mentality, man how did we go from bowlers like Akhtar and the 2 W’s to these lot.

 

[Rana]

Such a loser mentality, man how did we go from bowlers like Akhtar and the 2 W’s to these lot.

We went down this path because PCB simply cannot rid themselves from Wasim and Waqar and are doing whatever they can to milk their name and brand for their own financial purposes. Just listening to Wasim and Waqar on commentary should be enough to indicate to you that the guys are bang average with their cricketing knowledge, but they are trusted upon as experts in the country. No doubt they are great bowlers but they don’t have to be great cricket thinkers. You can expect a person like Munaf Patel to become a bowling coach and he will be far more effective than useless Waqar Younis!

Pakistan is severely lacking intellectuals in their set up, and they seem to think they have it covered with Business Management degree holder Misbah ul Haq. The guy should be a statistician and support staff at the most, not a head coach for crying out loud!

 

[iniqbal223]

Overreaction.

Even Mamoon isn't this negative

Aren't we losing matches?

 

[iniqbal223]

Bangladesh is never beating South Africa in South Africa, even if only fourteen year old kids end up playing for South Africa.

Because South Africa did not play C grade team

and BTW they did beat star studded SAF team in 2007 WC in WI

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I seriously question the acumen of certain posters here. Especially when posts like this pop up whenever Pakistan suffers a humiliating defeat. Did y'all start watching cricket yesterday? Pakistan has been through much worse and fairly recently too. But these kind of exaggerated, knee-jerk, doomsday reactions are becoming tiresome and repetitive.

Also, the answer is no. Pakistan will more or less stay the same.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Aren't we losing matches?

Does Pakistan have similar W/L ratio as BD of early 2000s? Can you justify your claim using stats?

 

[Saj]

Pakistan is a mid table side really in most formats.

Against the best teams our weaknesses are exposed and there for all to see.

A distinct lack of world class players is a real problem.

 

[Executioner]

Um I dont think Pakistan are heading in the same direction as current Bangladesh side let alone Bangladesh of of the 2000s. Overreaction.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan is a mid table side really in most formats.

Against the best teams our weaknesses are exposed and there for all to see.

A distinct lack of world class players is a real problem.

Playing against teams like Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe, West Indies, Bangladesh does not help either. A lot of average players we are carrying end up pro-longing their careers because of performances, form against these teams only to be brutally exposed against England, Australia, India, New Zealand.

 

[Thanos]

Strange!
For a moment I had the same thought today, if Pak turns out to be like Bangladesh in next few years.
I had big hopes from BD in 2000s that they'll become a force in cricket world in 10-15 years. Didn't happen.

But I think Pak has more skillful players(current) compared to what BD has produced all these years. So things are not that bad.
Yesterday was a bad day in office. Not to worry too much.

 

[iniqbal223]

Just remove CT 2017 , and few series like drawing England twice in 2016 and 2018

Pakistan was really a Bangladesh of 2000 from 2015 onwards; and has regressed even badly in last 2 years or so

 

[Greenstorm]

We went down this path because PCB simply cannot rid themselves from Wasim and Waqar and are doing whatever they can to milk their name and brand for their own financial purposes. Just listening to Wasim and Waqar on commentary should be enough to indicate to you that the guys are bang average with their cricketing knowledge, but they are trusted upon as experts in the country. No doubt they are great bowlers but they don’t have to be great cricket thinkers. You can expect a person like Munaf Patel to become a bowling coach and he will be far more effective than useless Waqar Younis!

Pakistan is severely lacking intellectuals in their set up, and they seem to think they have it covered with Business Management degree holder Misbah ul Haq. The guy should be a statistician and support staff at the most, not a head coach for crying out loud!

You are spot on about the lack of intellectuals in the setup.
Dinesh Karthik during commentary displayed more knowledge about our players than Ramiz Raja.
And Raja is in some advisory committee of PCB......

 

[UzmanBeast]

I seriously question the acumen of certain posters here. Especially when posts like this pop up whenever Pakistan suffers a humiliating defeat. Did y'all start watching cricket yesterday? Pakistan has been through much worse and fairly recently too. But these kind of exaggerated, knee-jerk, doomsday reactions are becoming tiresome and repetitive.

Also, the answer is no. Pakistan will more or less stay the same.

I agree.

Pakistan, historically, has never had any consistency under captains post Imran Khan's era.

To some extent, that cornered tigers mentality has become part of our mindset and is holding us back from achieving what our potential dictates. When you are seeking this image of being mercurial, you aren't developing your players and honing that killer instinct that should be present.

Personally, I believe that what's holding Pakistan back is the lack of aggression. All of our past 4-5 captains have been softies who hide on the field and turn their heads down when they're under pressure.

To manage a team of Pakistanis, you need a smart leader who has an attacking mindset, one who doesn't hide when the pressure mounts.

We've gone soft, that's what the biggest issue is.

For example: Saqib took a wicket, and Stokes gave him 3 slips. We set England 141 and had 2 slips for our premier pacer Shaheen.

Captaincy is the biggest problem, and some people might understand where I'm coming from, but a captain like Kohli is what Pakistan needs. Someone who always looks to attack, never on the back foot, and has a winner's mentality.

 

[Saj]

Too many players being dragged into international cricket on the basis of a couple of good performances in the PSL.

Instead of assessing them after a couple of full seasons of domestic cricket, our players are regarded as brilliant after 3 or 4 T20 matches.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I agree.

Pakistan, historically, has never had any consistency under captains post Imran Khan's era.

To some extent, that cornered tigers mentality has become part of our mindset and is holding us back from achieving what our potential dictates. When you are seeking this image of being mercurial, you aren't developing your players and honing that killer instinct that should be present.

Personally, I believe that what's holding Pakistan back is the lack of aggression. All of our past 4-5 captains have been softies who hide on the field and turn their heads down when they're under pressure.

To manage a team of Pakistanis, you need a smart leader who has an attacking mindset, one who doesn't hide when the pressure mounts.

We've gone soft, that's what the biggest issue is.

For example: Saqib took a wicket, and Stokes gave him 3 slips. We set England 141 and had 2 slips for our premier pacer Shaheen.

Captaincy is the biggest problem, and some people might understand where I'm coming from, but a captain like Kohli is what Pakistan needs. Someone who always looks to attack, never on the back foot, and has a winner's mentality.

I think its an amalgamation of various factors that have a combined effect. I agree that the captaincy factor is a big part of it, as is the timid philosophy at the helm. But so are other factors like the personal attitudes of players, the lazy approach towards fielding, a domestic system that is not good enough and doesn't drill the same values and attitudes into players at a young age that countries like India, Australia, England etc. do. You could argue that lack of money spent is part of it too.

At any rate, the final product is a team that is wildly inconsistent. And unless they are playing with their backs to the wall like they often do in ICC tournaments; they will showcase remarkable feats of unprofessionalism because they are products of a schizophrenic system.

 

[iniqbal223]

Thanks Misbah!

We are now Bangladesh ... we will try to win a consolation victory in 3rd ODI... and then come up with excuses like

1) We are still rebuilding
2) We are tryin g combinations for World Cup
3) We were scared of COVID19
4) Next ground is more lucky for us
5) Ghabraaana nahi hain

 

[Savak]

No one can be like Bangladesh. They are uniquely mediocre lol

 

[MesonK]

Pakistani fans are the worst crowd in the world.

We lost two ODI matches to world champions in their home and we are equivalent to BD lol

We will white wash WI in their home and we will be world beaters again.

.... Like I always say Pakistan is no world beating side but we are easily worlds 4th-5th best team that can beat any of the top 3 on its day. Losing to England in its home is no shame, they are world champions and a very hard team to beat in their own home.

 

[thecrusade911]

Pakistani fans are the worst crowd in the world.

We lost two ODI matches to world champions in their home and we are equivalent to BD lol

We will white wash WI in their home and we will be world beaters again.

.... Like I always say Pakistan is no world beating side but we are easily worlds 4th-5th best team that can beat any of the top 3 on its day. Losing to England in its home is no shame, they are world champions and a very hard team to beat in their own home.

Lol. This English team is not a world champion.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistani fans are the worst crowd in the world.

We lost two ODI matches to world champions in their home and we are equivalent to BD lol

We will white wash WI in their home and we will be world beaters again.

.... Like I always say Pakistan is no world beating side but we are easily worlds 4th-5th best team that can beat any of the top 3 on its day. Losing to England in its home is no shame, they are world champions and a very hard team to beat in their own home.

This was not England's main team though. They randomly picked some guys from county cricket overnight, called an injured player to captain the side and formed the team which went onto beat full strength Pakistan. So saying 'we just lost 2 ODIs to world champions' is not an accurate statement.

 

[Thanos]

Pakistani fans are the worst crowd in the world.

We lost two ODI matches to world champions in their home and we are equivalent to BD lol

We will white wash WI in their home and we will be world beaters again.

.... Like I always say Pakistan is no world beating side but we are easily worlds 4th-5th best team that can beat any of the top 3 on its day. Losing to England in its home is no shame, they are world champions and a very hard team to beat in their own home.

You mean Pak lost to one player in both matches. Because the only world champion in this Eng team is Ben stokes.

 

[UzmanBeast]

No, Pakistan is not at the depths where Bangladesh is, yet.

Our main problem lies in selection and mindset. Bangladesh have a much larger issue of not having good players.

The current Pakistan team has a lot of potential but no development whatsoever. There is no consistency, no mindset to punish oppositions, nothing.

The main issue lies in our batting, as it has historically. For subcontinental batsmen, it is impossible to mimic the type of batting style that Englishmen play with. What might seem like a very risky shot played by Bairstow is probably a well-calculated risk in his mind after playing on wickets where he can freely accelerate at will.

Subcontinental teams have done well on SENA tours only when they have learned how to bat sensibly and bowl at the stumps. That is the best thing to do on flat wickets, keep the ball between the stumps and try to get pressure on the batsman to go for a shot that doesn't exist. For batting, it's about cashing in. Nobody cares if you start out at 15 from 30, it's about what your final result is. This wicket was not incredibly difficult to bat on, it needed two good partnerships to get to that total, but none of our batsmen learn.

Our mindset is the biggest problem, particularly with running between the wickets. We need to look for the singles and make singles where others can't. Lewis Gregory and Brydon Carse only succeeded when they were able to rotate strike, when too many dot balls piled up, they created chances for our bowlers. Half of the runs Gregory scored shouldn't have been allowed by inner ring fielders, there is no sense of urgency to stop the flow of runs.

Our fielding is pathetic, to say the least. When you have a team 7 down, you need to stop being so lazy and actually go for the kill, rather than let a partnership blossom in good bowling conditions. This idiocy is ingrained in Pakistani Cricket culture, and will cost us more and more.

 

[iniqbal223]

No one can be like Bangladesh. They are uniquely mediocre lol

We are on that track; and not too far

 

[MesonK]

Lol. This English team is not a world champion.

Lol on your logic.

World champion side produces world champion youngsters. This concept of A team and B team is as stupid as it gets because it literally implies that best 11 of England must be good and rest of their cricketing system must be crap.

 

[MesonK]

This was not England's main team though. They randomly picked some guys from county cricket overnight, called an injured player to captain the side and formed the team which went onto beat full strength Pakistan. So saying 'we just lost 2 ODIs to world champions' is not an accurate statement.

You are implying that these county playing english cricketers must be really bad. thats funny. A side is strong because of its cricketing system, its ability to keep on producing good cricketers. Its best 11, A team are all good, not on same levels but they are better than other sides on planet which is why that nation is a leader in cricket. Pakistan lost a team built by world champion cricketing system, something that we pakistanis do not have. we rely upon individual sparks here and there which is why we are unpredictable and play risky cricket.

 

[MesonK]

You mean Pak lost to one player in both matches. Because the only world champion in this Eng team is Ben stokes.

England is WC, their board, system produces one of the best cricketers in the word. Few of these may even replace the ageing best 11 ones in future and your logic will belong to trash can.