Is Pakistan the new minnow of international cricket?

[Local.Dada]

Pakistan is not a minnow- it has good talent pool. The team is run and managed with a minnow mentality. The players are very talented. I still think in the next 15 year cycle- this decade and next, Pak will atleast win 1 important trophy. Will that make Pakistan into a team like India or PcB like BCCI- obviously not, there are 100 other factors that need to come together for that. However they will likely win a cup or atleast get one more elusive win vs India. That will always cover up for things.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan is not a minnow. They are a mid-tier team (they float from 4 to 7).

 

[SportsWarrior]

Pak is not a minnow team. They are a mid tier team. Only BD is a minnow from Asia. Others like SL, Pak and AFG are decent teams in white ball cricket.

 

[saimayubera]

Pak is not a minnow team. They are a mid tier team. Only BD is a minnow from Asia. Others like SL, Pak and AFG are decent teams in white ball cricket.

BD is also mid tier tbh.

They made T20 WC super 8 by defeating SL.

Odi WC defeated SL.

 

[jnaveen1980]

At test level yes. In ODI level not yet. But at this rate they will get there. In T20 things may look very ugly. This Salman Ali Agha won't walk into even Srilankan team as a player. May be Bangladesh. Here he is captaining the side. Teams have great death bowling, mystery spinners, insane top order hitters, lower order hitters. Pakistan is behind in lot of these areas.

 

[pakistani pride]

Yes, minnow level for sure.

 

[Prince of Dorne]

No. Pak can still beat any team anywhere without it being termed an upset. Only BD is a true minnow from Asia and is likely to stay that way for years to come.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Not yet a minnow but not far away from being one either. It's likely we will become one

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not yet a minnow but not far away from being one either. It's likely we will become one

With the amount of chaos that is going on they will soon be there.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

With the amount of chaos that is going on they will soon be there.

Early knockouts in next Asia cup and T20 world cup will confirm it or reverse it if we do well.

 

[BDfanforever]

Mohsin Naqvi and new BCB Chairman Faruque Ahmed discusses upcoming plans and FTP.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

With the amount of chaos that is going on they will soon be there.

All under the one chairman, has to be a record of some sort

 

[BouncerGuy]

All under the one chairman, has to be a record of some sort

And people are still in AWWWWW moment and praising Naqvi. This has to be the most unsettled era and under-performing era in recent years.

 

[light]

Would be curious to see a BD v PAK serries. Pak is really nowhere close to their prime. BD just lost all it's seniors and is back to being super minnow - and performing as such. Considering both are not playing well, would be a good contest. I bet if both plays a series Vs AFG, both would get humiliated.

 

[saimayubera]

No. Pak can still beat any team anywhere without it being termed an upset. Only BD is a true minnow from Asia and is likely to stay that way for years to come.

Naah, they whitewashed Pak in Pak in tests. That is not a fluke.

 

[Monday Morning]

Babar Azam's W/L ratio against top 5 sides (SENA+I) read as follows:

Tests - 0.22 (5 W, 23 L)
ODIs - 0.57 (28 W, 49 L)
T20Is - 0.86 (32 W, 37 L)

These are pretty dire numbers for games involving your best player.

Pakistan are definitely minnows in test cricket. They're bordering on minnow status in ODIs. They're mid-tier in T20Is, but even that's trending in the wrong direction.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

A lot of teams are struggling in ODI cricket. England have been pathetic and Australia have no immediate replacements for Warner & Smith etc.

So, Pakistan will do alright there once Saim returns.

Test cricket is finished pretty much everywhere outside of the Big 3 and there's no need to fret about it even if you are becoming minnows.

The problem is T20 cricket. PAK aren't minnows but they look like they can beat only minnows currently

 

[Bhaijaan]

Cricket has not been the same since Pakistan declined as a cricketing nation. When Pakistan were the leader in Cricket the game was much better. Only when Pakistan return to the top would this game’s glory be restored.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Babar Azam's W/L ratio against top 5 sides (SENA+I) read as follows:

Tests - 0.22 (5 W, 23 L)
ODIs - 0.57 (28 W, 49 L)
T20Is - 0.86 (32 W, 37 L)

These are pretty dire numbers for games involving your best player.

Pakistan are definitely minnows in test cricket. They're bordering on minnow status in ODIs. They're mid-tier in T20Is, but even that's trending in the wrong direction.

Which teams are top tier in T20Is? And what are their W/L ratios?

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

And people are still in AWWWWW moment and praising Naqvi. This has to be the most unsettled era and under-performing era in recent years.

Naqvi cant change the skill issues of PCT in one go. But he should amazing grit with respect to hosting of the Champions Trophy. He delivered more than what was expected. Atleast we should give credit him for that.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Cricket has not been the same since Pakistan declined as a cricketing nation. When Pakistan were the leader in Cricket the game was much better. Only when Pakistan return to the top would this game’s glory be restored.

Cricket is doomed as a sport if other countries dont rise up.
We keep hoping for miracles but cricket needs a culture in these countries.
Bangladesh always fails to deliver, Afghanistan while delivering will never be a good choice because of the politcal turmoil.
Zimbabwe, Kenya faded away. Ireland also deceived us.
Nepal might come but again will always lack resources because of geography.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Cricket has not been the same since Pakistan declined as a cricketing nation. When Pakistan were the leader in Cricket the game was much better. Only when Pakistan return to the top would this game’s glory be restored.

Cricket is a game of the subcontinent in reality. When Pakistan was a giant, then the rest of the world took some interest during a Pakistan/India clash. Pakistanis have made up a large fanbase over the years, but with the lack of professionalism and failure to advance the game, the PCB has destroyed a lot of the enthusiasm in that fanbase.

Unfortunately for cricket, if one of the major powers in the game declines, it is a big loss. Even West Indies is a huge loss, and they have a much smaller fanbase worldwide than Pakistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Cricket is a game of the subcontinent in reality. When Pakistan was a giant, then the rest of the world took some interest during a Pakistan/India clash. Pakistanis have made up a large fanbase over the years, but with the lack of professionalism and failure to advance the game, the PCB has destroyed a lot of the enthusiasm in that fanbase.

Unfortunately for cricket, if one of the major powers in the game declines, it is a big loss. Even West Indies is a huge loss, and they have a much smaller fanbase worldwide than Pakistan.

Pakistan’s rise in cricket was organic which is why the whole world especially the white world appreciated it. On the other hand our rise in cricket has been due to political rigging by BCCI which is why we’re never truly accepted by white cricket.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan’s rise in cricket was organic which is why the whole world especially the white world appreciated it. On the other hand our rise in cricket has been due to political rigging by BCCI which is why we’re never truly accepted by white cricket.

Yes, it is a shame as India has produced some fine players, but the SENA nations now have a ready made excuse for losing these series.

 

[PAKFAN12]

We have Become minnow in every formats but who care ? Let's Criticized India , problem solved.

 

[ads101]

We’re about in line with where we technically should be in theory. India, Australia, England, South Africa all are richer with better cricketing structures. Pakistan as a country is in turmoil. Bangladesh is even now better in terms of economy. Sri Lanka has a better cricketing schooling system. New Zealand while small, is a rich country and a one devoted to sport.

We’re 6th in the world IMO and usually are 6th favourites on most tournaments according to bookmakers. Which really means any time we even make semi finals we are overachieving.

Which is why we can not compete with the top countries just based on talent. We have to find a niche.

Our pitches can support spin and sena is at a disadvantage there. So the logical thing is to develop spinners. Sri Lanka has done this, as have Afghanistan and other nations. For some reason we have ignored this. Fast bowlers are much more difficult to compete with as SENA actually holds an advantage with their pitchers aiding them better.

Pakistan is probably the only country which focuses on their strength being producing players opposite to their conditions, being fast bowers.

The other thing just like New Zealand is you maximise fitness and fielding to edge out every advantage you can. Which again we do not.

I also think instead of constant chopping and changing we need to just back players with long runs in settled positions . You don’t get the best of even average players if you don’t do this. We’re always looking for the next option from domestic and thus it’s just a merry go round.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

We’re about in line with where we technically should be in theory. India, Australia, England, South Africa all are richer with better cricketing structures. Pakistan as a country is in turmoil. Bangladesh is even now better in terms of economy. Sri Lanka has a better cricketing schooling system. New Zealand while small, is a rich country and a one devoted to sport.

We’re 6th in the world IMO and usually are 6th favourites on most tournaments according to bookmakers. Which really means any time we even make semi finals we are overachieving.

Which is why we can not compete with the top countries just based on talent. We have to find a niche.

Our pitches can support spin and sena is at a disadvantage there. So the logical thing is to develop spinners. Sri Lanka has done this, as have Afghanistan and other nations. For some reason we have ignored this. Fast bowlers are much more difficult to compete with as SENA actually holds an advantage with their pitchers aiding them better.

Pakistan is probably the only country which focuses on their strength being producing players opposite to their conditions, being fast bowers.

The other thing just like New Zealand is you maximise fitness and fielding to edge out every advantage you can. Which again we do not.

I also think instead of constant chopping and changing we need to just back players with long runs in settled positions . You don’t get the best of even average players if you don’t do this. We’re always looking for the next option from domestic and thus it’s just a merry go round.

well captured!!

 

[chakdeindian]

Pakistan’s rise in cricket was organic which is why the whole world especially the white world appreciated it. On the other hand our rise in cricket has been due to political rigging by BCCI which is why we’re never truly accepted by white cricket.

Pakistan rise was organic?? It was the most corrupt team which used all illegal ways and substances to perform well..it was always covered with so many scandals/controversies and their players have sold their teams multiple times for money..as soon as the cricket laws became stricter and modernized, they started fading away and no longer able to produce bowling or batting legends like they had produced before..we don't need any white worlds approval or acceptance and we are super proud of our rise and dominance..Infact we crave for more..pls stop this slave mentality thinking whites are greater than us..

 

[RyanRyan10]

Pakistan rise was organic?? It was the most corrupt team which used all illegal ways and substances to perform well..it was always covered with so many scandals/controversies and their players have sold their teams multiple times for money..as soon as the cricket laws became stricter and modernized, they started fading away and no longer able to produce bowling or batting legends like they had produced before..we don't need any white worlds approval or acceptance and we are super proud of our rise and dominance..Infact we crave for more..pls stop this slave mentality thinking whites are greater than us..

You got baited.

 

[saimayubera]

We’re about in line with where we technically should be in theory. India, Australia, England, South Africa all are richer with better cricketing structures. Pakistan as a country is in turmoil. Bangladesh is even now better in terms of economy. Sri Lanka has a better cricketing schooling system. New Zealand while small, is a rich country and a one devoted to sport.

We’re 6th in the world IMO and usually are 6th favourites on most tournaments according to bookmakers. Which really means any time we even make semi finals we are overachieving.

Which is why we can not compete with the top countries just based on talent. We have to find a niche.

Our pitches can support spin and sena is at a disadvantage there. So the logical thing is to develop spinners. Sri Lanka has done this, as have Afghanistan and other nations. For some reason we have ignored this. Fast bowlers are much more difficult to compete with as SENA actually holds an advantage with their pitchers aiding them better.

Pakistan is probably the only country which focuses on their strength being producing players opposite to their conditions, being fast bowers.

The other thing just like New Zealand is you maximise fitness and fielding to edge out every advantage you can. Which again we do not.

I also think instead of constant chopping and changing we need to just back players with long runs in settled positions . You don’t get the best of even average players if you don’t do this. We’re always looking for the next option from domestic and thus it’s just a merry go round.

yup.

Bangladesh will keep getting richer and are already outperforming Pak in junior levels.

 

[globetrotter]

They are lowest in minnows

 

[SpiritOf1903]

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

yup.

Bangladesh will keep getting richer and are already outperforming Pak in junior levels.

If money was able to produce world class athletes, then India would be sweeping Olympic golds and have a star studded football team.

 

[saimayubera]

If money was able to produce world class athletes, then India would be sweeping Olympic golds and have a star studded football team.

I mean India has already become better than what it was in Olympics.

Things like Asian Games etc it is now a clear 4th behind the Asian big 3.

There are decades and decades of growth left as India is still only a $3000 pci country.

There is a direct co-relation between wealth and sporting/artistic success.

As India becomes richer, all those things will come.

You might deny it but then that's fine.

If in 2008 someone told you this is what cricket would be like today, you would have denied it too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I mean India has already become better than what it was in Olympics.

Things like Asian Games etc it is now a clear 4th behind the Asian big 3.

There are decades and decades of growth left as India is still only a $3000 pci country.

There is a direct co-relation between wealth and sporting/artistic success.

As India becomes richer, all those things will come.

You might deny it but then that's fine.

If in 2008 someone told you this is what cricket would be like today, you would have denied it too.

Money will definitely help, but it won't necessarily produce a line of fast bowlers in Bangladesh if the pool is smaller than it would be in Australia or West Indies.

 

[saimayubera]

Money will definitely help, but it won't necessarily produce a line of fast bowlers in Bangladesh if the pool is smaller than it would be in Australia or West Indies.

Economic growth means better nutrition and better health.

Nahid Rana is already a very tall and fast Bangladeshi young bowler who has bowled Bangladesh to a test series win in Pakistan.

More and more will come up.

Australia is a rich first world country. WI are also middle income. They have maxed out their genetic potential.

Subcontinent hasn't.

 

[charlie007]

Nah! Too much quality to be considered a minnow. Even won recently in SA and Aus.

 

[ads101]

I mean India has already become better than what it was in Olympics.

Things like Asian Games etc it is now a clear 4th behind the Asian big 3.

There are decades and decades of growth left as India is still only a $3000 pci country.

There is a direct co-relation between wealth and sporting/artistic success.

As India becomes richer, all those things will come.

You might deny it but then that's fine.

If in 2008 someone told you this is what cricket would be like today, you would have denied it too.

Agree with this. The reason why Pakistan is ahead right now is because they are more established, started cricket earlier.

Yes if China suddenly competing they would do badly, the interest isn’t there. But Bangladesh is different it’s a cricket mad country, large population, improving economy. It’s going to get better over time. I hope it won’t ever be better than Pakistan but it Pakistan’s economy continues to fall and Bangladesh’s continues to rise it really seems like a serious possibility.

Pakistan aren’t minnows and can still beat quality sides. That is thanks to our cricketing history. If for example Pakistan had started cricket now or even when Afghanistan did, with this economy we’d be minnows most likely.

It’s an obvious disadvantage and we can’t really do anything to control it. Even lack of access to IPL hurts us too unfortunately. But as I said before focus on the things we can control, fitness, fielding, settled positions, keeping confidence high and creating a niche for home conditions eg spin. We do none of that and somehow just believe that this team should be competing at the top automatically despite disadvantages in talent pool, cricketing structure and wealth. Just makes little logical sense.

 

[saimayubera]

Agree with this. The reason why Pakistan is ahead right now is because they are more established, started cricket earlier.

Yes if China suddenly competing they would do badly, the interest isn’t there. But Bangladesh is different it’s a cricket mad country, large population, improving economy. It’s going to get better over time. I hope it won’t ever be better than Pakistan but it Pakistan’s economy continues to fall and Bangladesh’s continues to rise it really seems like a serious possibility.

Pakistan aren’t minnows and can still beat quality sides. That is thanks to our cricketing history. If for example Pakistan had started cricket now or even when Afghanistan did, with this economy we’d be minnows most likely.

It’s an obvious disadvantage and we can’t really do anything to control it. Even lack of access to IPL hurts us too unfortunately. But as I said before focus on the things we can control, fitness, fielding, settled positions, keeping confidence high and creating a niche for home conditions eg spin. We do none of that and somehow just believe that this team should be competing at the top automatically despite disadvantages in talent pool, cricketing structure and wealth. Just makes little logical sense.

Bangladesh in the last decade have already done things Pakistanis would have thought unimaginable before.

Whitewash in ODIs 2015.

Kicked Pak out of Asia Cups in 2016 and 2018.

Away whitewash in tests 2024.

 

[Asad T]

And now lost to a New Zealand C-team yet again...

We should be considered a minnow team after this

 

[Nikhil_cric]

And now lost to a New Zealand C-team yet again...

We should be considered a minnow team after this

More a reflection of NZ's bench strength and talent pool.

Pound for pound, they are miles ahead of everyone else currently.

 

[sweep_shot]

What is a minnow? A minnow is a team that has never won any ICC trophy and/or is outside of top 8 in ranking.

Therefore, I don't think Pakistan is a minnow despite the recent hiccups. I think they are #6 in world cricket.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Pakistan are not a minnow. They have just backed wrong cricketers.

 

[muz]

Nah! Too much quality to be considered a minnow. Even won recently in SA and Aus.

Wasn't this against their less than full strength teams? Winning against top teams where they are not playing some of their top players shouldn't count, rather it is delusional.

 

[deep82]

Pakistan is definitely not a minnow but now in serious danger of just being a 7th-10th ranking team and competing mostly vs SL, WI, BD, AFG

 

[uppercut]

I saw threads like these before CT 2017 also. I am sure Pakistan will turn this around in the world cup again.

What did I tell you .... do you believe Me now ?

 

[Bhaijaan]

A minnow team doesn’t win a T20I in New Zealand bro. It was a huge achievement by this young team.

 

[Rana]

Thank you Imran Khan

Thank you Misbah

Thank you Wasim Khan

Thank you SNGPL

Thank you Multan Sultans

 

[zarak]

Thank you Imran Khan

Thank you Misbah

Thank you Wasim Khan

Thank you SNGPL

Thank you Multan Sultans

Ramiz, Najam, Zaka, Mohsin. Are they better in your opinion?

 

[Rana]

Ramiz, Najam, Zaka, Mohsin. Are they better in your opinion?

Zaka the only one who was ready to balls up and take down the nexus.

 

[zarak]

Pakistan is definitely not a minnow but now in serious danger of just being a 7th-10th ranking team and competing mostly vs SL, WI,

Zaka the only one who was ready to balls up and take down the nexus.

You mean agents and Saya type stuff.

 

[Master Blaster]

Couple of series against USA/Nepal needed for confirmation.

 

[Rana]

You mean agents and Saya type stuff.

100%

Zaka came in at a time when grip of this nexus was extremely tight around the throat of Pakistan cricket. He had to endure first hand trouble at the hands of their ringleader hiding in the shadows when the players/agency were blackmailing the PCB on the central contracted issue around the 2023 World Cup.

He swallowed his pride at the time for the sake of Pakistan, but he was ready to lay down a process that was going to rid Pakistan cricket from the shackles that it found itself in due to the pathetic work of Wasim Khan and Co. Who let this evil creep in.

 

[Monday Morning]

Honestly, at this point, anyone outside SENA+I could be considered minnows. The gulf between SENA+I and the rest is massive. Pakistan maybe ranked 7th (Afghanistan take the 6th spot), but really they're not much better than the 10th ranked side (WI or BD).

 

[zarak]

100%

Zaka came in at a time when grip of this nexus was extremely tight around the throat of Pakistan cricket. He had to endure first hand trouble at the hands of their ringleader hiding in the shadows when the players/agency were blackmailing the PCB on the central contracted issue around the 2023 World Cup.

He swallowed his pride at the time for the sake of Pakistan, but he was ready to lay down a process that was going to rid Pakistan cricket from the shackles that it found itself in due to the pathetic work of Wasim Khan and Co. Who let this evil creep in.

I get your point but we are also pretty crap regardless. Players coming in are below standard.

 

[Sachin fan]

A minnow team doesn’t win a T20I in New Zealand bro. It was a huge achievement by this young team.

Didn't sri lanka win one earlier this year and bangladesh win one on their last tour to new zealand?

 

[saimayubera]

Didn't sri lanka win one earlier this year and bangladesh win one on their last tour to new zealand?

that was also not a weaker NZ team

 

[Bhaijaan]

Thank you Imran Khan

Thank you Misbah

Thank you Wasim Khan

Thank you SNGPL

Thank you Multan Sultans

Bro what’s Pakistani awaam take on Immy Khan after his PM stint and all the dramebazi he been doing.

His nearest non cricketing rival in our country is a man called Arvind Kejriwal. People believed in him once and gave him many chances in power to do something for public but turned out he was worse than Congress/BJP. Now public has taken power back from him and he’s barely out in bail.