Is scoring at around 6.5 runs per over on a perfect batting strip against weakened bowling a huge achievement?

[mon858]

First, let me make it clear:

• I have nothing against the partnership between Salman and Rizwan, great record breaking partnership, great achievement to help get over the target
• Enjoyed the entire match and happy to see the win under our belt

Second, I try to focus on high-performance and continual improvement. Truly believe in confronting the brutal facts, if you want to get from good to great. Based on that below is my question to all:

• Pakistan was at roughly 90 in 10 overs in the chase, leaving roughly 260 more to chase in 40 overs
• Playing at home, on perfect batting strip, under lights bit of dew
• Playing against weakened bowling that also conceded another 300+ chase game before, missing likes of Rabada, Jansen, etc.
• In such conditions, is scoring at 6.5 an over a huge achievement or normal or slightly above normal expectaion?
• To me review of most of the innings, especially the early part and Rizwan's innings in particular seemed more like the innings of a Williamson or Bavuma. However, we are celebrating it at level of an innings of a Glenn Phillips the other day, or Klaasen, etc.
• Compare the strike rate and shots played by them (or even our Fakhar) to that of this partnership - and in particular Rizwan. Even Salman, played an excellent innings, but many of his boundaries were played to poor deliveries outside the off stump half volleys asking to be hit for four or six. Not some reverse flick for six over third man (not saying you need to play such shots all the time)

My concern is we are over celebrating this and it may continue to promote a culture of mediocrity, and we are bound to get a reality check when playing against full strength teams come Champions Trophy, and other series in future.

Overall, its still a great achievement and we have a formula to get a high run chase by scoring high in powerplay bringing down run-rate for others, but that may or may not happen, or we may have to set a high total on such pitches with our bowling and maybe that target may need to be 360 instead of a 300 or 320. And that gap may come if Fakhar doesn't fire upfront and middle/lower order doesn't have ability to play high strike rate innings.

There is nothing much else we can do, as its not like we have Klaasen, Glen Phillips, Maxwells, sitting on the bench/domestic, but all I am asking is we keep reality check in mind and not elevate the performances and skills to a level beyond where they are today.

 

[charlie007]

It’s never easy chasing 350+ regardless of conditions. Be proud of what your boys accomplished. This chase was among the best chases by Pakistan.

 

[jamie smith fan]

First, let me make it clear:

• I have nothing against the partnership between Salman and Rizwan, great record breaking partnership, great achievement to help get over the target
• Enjoyed the entire match and happy to see the win under our belt

Second, I try to focus on high-performance and continual improvement. Truly believe in confronting the brutal facts, if you want to get from good to great. Based on that below is my question to all:

• Pakistan was at roughly 90 in 10 overs in the chase, leaving roughly 260 more to chase in 40 overs
• Playing at home, on perfect batting strip, under lights bit of dew
• Playing against weakened bowling that also conceded another 300+ chase game before, missing likes of Rabada, Jansen, etc.
• In such conditions, is scoring at 6.5 an over a huge achievement or normal or slightly above normal expectaion?
• To me review of most of the innings, especially the early part and Rizwan's innings in particular seemed more like the innings of a Williamson or Bavuma. However, we are celebrating it at level of an innings of a Glenn Phillips the other day, or Klaasen, etc.
• Compare the strike rate and shots played by them (or even our Fakhar) to that of this partnership - and in particular Rizwan. Even Salman, played an excellent innings, but many of his boundaries were played to poor deliveries outside the off stump half volleys asking to be hit for four or six. Not some reverse flick for six over third man (not saying you need to play such shots all the time)

My concern is we are over celebrating this and it may continue to promote a culture of mediocrity, and we are bound to get a reality check when playing against full strength teams come Champions Trophy, and other series in future.

Overall, its still a great achievement and we have a formula to get a high run chase by scoring high in powerplay bringing down run-rate for others, but that may or may not happen, or we may have to set a high total on such pitches with our bowling and maybe that target may need to be 360 instead of a 300 or 320. And that gap may come if Fakhar doesn't fire upfront and middle/lower order doesn't have ability to play high strike rate innings.

There is nothing much else we can do, as its not like we have Klaasen, Glen Phillips, Maxwells, sitting on the bench/domestic, but all I am asking is we keep reality check in mind and not elevate the performances and skills to a level beyond where they are today.

I am saying this since yesterday it is no herculean feet.
Conditions were favourable and Salmans innings was key otherwise we wouldn't have won even if riz scored 150.

 

[jamie smith fan]

First, let me make it clear:

• I have nothing against the partnership between Salman and Rizwan, great record breaking partnership, great achievement to help get over the target
• Enjoyed the entire match and happy to see the win under our belt

Second, I try to focus on high-performance and continual improvement. Truly believe in confronting the brutal facts, if you want to get from good to great. Based on that below is my question to all:

• Pakistan was at roughly 90 in 10 overs in the chase, leaving roughly 260 more to chase in 40 overs
• Playing at home, on perfect batting strip, under lights bit of dew
• Playing against weakened bowling that also conceded another 300+ chase game before, missing likes of Rabada, Jansen, etc.
• In such conditions, is scoring at 6.5 an over a huge achievement or normal or slightly above normal expectaion?
• To me review of most of the innings, especially the early part and Rizwan's innings in particular seemed more like the innings of a Williamson or Bavuma. However, we are celebrating it at level of an innings of a Glenn Phillips the other day, or Klaasen, etc.
• Compare the strike rate and shots played by them (or even our Fakhar) to that of this partnership - and in particular Rizwan. Even Salman, played an excellent innings, but many of his boundaries were played to poor deliveries outside the off stump half volleys asking to be hit for four or six. Not some reverse flick for six over third man (not saying you need to play such shots all the time)

My concern is we are over celebrating this and it may continue to promote a culture of mediocrity, and we are bound to get a reality check when playing against full strength teams come Champions Trophy, and other series in future.

Overall, its still a great achievement and we have a formula to get a high run chase by scoring high in powerplay bringing down run-rate for others, but that may or may not happen, or we may have to set a high total on such pitches with our bowling and maybe that target may need to be 360 instead of a 300 or 320. And that gap may come if Fakhar doesn't fire upfront and middle/lower order doesn't have ability to play high strike rate innings.

There is nothing much else we can do, as its not like we have Klaasen, Glen Phillips, Maxwells, sitting on the bench/domestic, but all I am asking is we keep reality check in mind and not elevate the performances and skills to a level beyond where they are today.

Rather than over celebrating we should be concerned about our bowling.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No it's a very poor achievement.

I was totally disgusted with it and would have preferred that we lose the match.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Yes it is. In this modern day Cricket even chasing 350+ is not easy.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Some 10 or 12 years back I remember trams chasing 300 plus in 42 overs or something. I remember younis khan did that in one match against India. India did the same against pakistan with MSD and yuvi.Back then 300 was under par total (before two new ball era) in subcontinent especially on flat wickets. It was not a violent chase. Surgical chase. On certain pitches that is all needed.

Just keep your wickets in hands. That is precisely what Kane did too who I don't rate as a great ODI player by any stretch of imagination. But a good percentage cricketer.Runs will automatically come as.bowlers get nothing from the surface and bowlers will over try and lose their radar. You can cash in.

This comes naturally to guys who don't experiment too much. Basically playing with common sense is all you need.

This probably will be different when they are asked to bat first. They may not go after 350 in the first place.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It is still special if you do it while chasing and extra special if it’s in a tense knock out situation match.

Don’t write this off like this. It was a great chase and Saud Shakeel played a great knock.

 

[Major]

Has 353 ever been chased in Pakistan? just answer this

thanks

 

[Kianig89]

For a team like Pakistan which is in crisis most of the time its a big win

 

[mon858]

Yes it is. In this modern day Cricket even chasing 350+ is not easy.

my questions is not about 350 at all, its only about the part where we scored 6.5 an over, is that a huge achievement or a above normal thing? without the 10 overs 90, middle/lower order isn't capable of consistently getting 330-360 even in these conditions, so all i am asking is to stay humble and understand the reality of the situation rather than think we have the worlds best middle order all of a sudden, which we don't.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Naaaa it was disappointing. Should have been done in 25 overs against this 'C' grade attack. Rizwan batted too selfishly though. Clearly was playing for his 100.

 

[shaz619]

It’s a good performance by Pakistan but your thread has merit because as we’ve seen in the past, they let these wins get to their heads very easily really. More professional sides will always look for areas to improve on, I hope Pak do not lose sight of that.

 

[shaz619]

350 is about par on these roads however. Striking at 125-135+ is a good effort.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

at international level chasing 320 plus is always a huge ask even if the opponent is weak

 

[emranabbas]

Chasing 350+ isn't easy, even against weaker bowling, especially for a team like Pakistan. What’s really been different this time is the approach. We didn’t stick to the usual plan of playing safe till the 35th over and then going big, we’ve been more aggressive right from the start, and it’s really paid off.

 

[jamie smith fan]

NO it could have been chased in 20 overs if India was playing.

 

[emranabbas]

Aqib Javid is working wonders with the team, getting them to ditch the play-it-safe approach until the 35th over then go all out. Team was aggressive from ball 1

 

[Jazx]

I am saying this since yesterday it is no herculean feet.
Conditions were favourable and Salmans innings was key otherwise we wouldn't have won even if riz scored 150.

Makes no sense, are you damn sure that pakistan would have won if salman scored 150 and riz got out cheeply? ODI cricket is a team game where every player have different kind of role. And you will always see 350 chases on a perfect batting surface only. No team have ever chased 350 plus on a bowling freindly condition in the history of ODI cricket.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

NO it could have been chased in 20 overs if India was playing.

Then they must have been chasing on a computer while playing Brain Lara 2000 game!

 

[PakPremi]

Every time Pakistan does well then the excuses of players missing come out. If their bowling was weakened by two bowlers missing, then Pakistan batting was weakened by Saim missing due to injury, and of course Haris Rauf in bowling may had been better than Hasnain and SA never would had scored 350 in first place. Either way most Pakistani fans know there are still lots of issue with entire Pakistan team, but winning provides confidence to players to perform better and trust themselves.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It certainly is a great feat but no way an alternative to CT glory

 

[mominsaigol]

Sa bowling attack is rubbish. However the chase was good. Not easy to chase when you're 91-3. Agha and rizzu batted well and we should acknowledge this effort.

But the main concern isn't that we should chase 350 of quality bowling attacks. No opposition, not even classic Australia can do that.

The main concern is to avoid getting tonked for 350 scores. Quality bowlers will restrict you for less then 300 evem

 

[RidiculousMan]

Sa bowling attack is rubbish. However the chase was good. Not easy to chase when you're 91-3. Agha and rizzu batted well and we should acknowledge this effort.

But the main concern isn't that we should chase 350 of quality bowling attacks. No opposition, not even classic Australia can do that.

The main concern is to avoid getting tonked for 350 scores. Quality bowlers will restrict you for less then 300 evem

I think we all knew going into Champions Trophy that pitches will be similar to India. The ones we saw in the WC2023 specially.

If ICC has a plan to bring in pacers in the game by living a bit of grass then we can have some supporting wickets. Otherwise pretty much go on expecting 300+ every game as a bowler.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think we all knew going into Champions Trophy that pitches will be similar to India. The ones we saw in the WC2023 specially.

If ICC has a plan to bring in pacers in the game by living a bit of grass then we can have some supporting wickets. Otherwise pretty much go on expecting 300+ every game as a bowler.

300+ is fine if their flat pitches.

350 is too much. Even in India wc 2023 the highest scuccesful chase was 336, (pak vs sri lanka)

350 won't be chased by anyone unless you're a SA trundler.

Pakistan needs to fix their bowling ASAP. Khusdil and Husnain are trundling rubbish.

 

[msb314]

350+ has only been chased 10-15 times in ODI history.

In fact NZ, SL, WI, Bangladesh and Afg have never done it

It is a huge achievement any way you look at it…

 

[kingusama92]

I understand the gist of the thread, but let's be honest chasing 350+ is no joke.

Rather than focusing on the batting, I would focus on Pakistan's bowling.

This is the part of the team that shouldn't be ignored just because the batsmen saved them from an embarrassing loss at home. You can't be giving up 350 regularly as it's not sustainable.

 

[giri26]

It is a very good chase. Chasing 350 isn't that easy on any pitch. The only time 350+ scores became a joke was the India/Australia series in 2013 when both teams were chasing 350-360 for fun. The only thing I would be concerned if I were a Pakistan fan is the bowling. Shaheen has been good with the new ball but has conceded loads of run at the back end. Naseem Shah seems like a shadow of his 2023 self in ODIs. The rest of the bowling baring may be Haris is a joke. If they run into a heavy batting line up on a flat track they can be hammered. Chasing 350+ in every game is not easy and like someone said if Fakhar doesn't score runs, Pakistan against a good bowling line up have no chance of even getting close. We saw that in the first game against NZ. You should celebrate this win as it is a great achievement but should be concerned with the bowling.

2 years ago when Pakistan went into the Asia cup, their bowling was called the best in the world in LOIs, 2 years later except for Haris Rauf and Shaheen with the new ball, none of the bowlers look threatening unless the wicket offers them any help. The spin bowling is non-existent. I think Abrar is a decent spinner but in the Test season in Pakistan he was inferior to both Sajid and Nauman on raging turners. Not sure if he is the right bowler for Pakistan in LOIs unless the batters go crazy and give away wickets. The one good thing though is that he does not go for too many runs, but again still a better choice compared to Shadab. Pakistan need to find a way to take wickets in the middle overs between 20-40 if they want to restrict teams before 300. In both the games Shaheen picked wickets with the new ball but the teams ended up scoring 330+. This is due to poor death bowling and lack of wickets in the middle.

 

[W63L35]

So far 4834 ODIs have been played.
Only these 11 times a total of 350 or more runs has been chased successfully and we are complaining about the Run Rate???

 

[daytrader]

It's a big achievement anyway we look at it. OP is downplaying the SA bowling attack but they still had 3 of their regular bowlers plus they're a great fielding unit.

I bet if Fakhar had scored a century or if Saim was playing and we won, it would've been considered a big achievement.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

So far 4834 ODIs have been played.
Only these 11 times a total of 350 or more runs has been chased successfully and we are complaining about the Run Rate???

View attachment 150741

I dont think anyone cares about runrate.

The question was simply is it something to celebrate out considering that it was against a B string SA side with bowlers being Bosch and Mulder etc.

I think the answer depends on what your standards are.

Some fans are simply happy with a few wins here and there and do not believe we have the team to win important tournaments. They will celebrate this because this is the only thing worth celebrating for in their eyes.

Some fans like me dont accept mediocrity and look at tournaments and bowling attacks. For them this just papers the cracks and is not a great achievement.

You cant go wrong either way.

But I would be wary of celebrating mediocrity because mediocrity breeds mediocrity.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

I dont think anyone cares about runrate.

The question was simply is it something to celebrate out considering that it was against a B string SA side with bowlers being Bosch and Mulder etc.

I think the answer depends on what your standards are.

Some fans are simply happy with a few wins here and there and do not believe we have the team to win important tournaments. They will celebrate this because this is the only thing worth celebrating for in their eyes.

Some fans like me dont accept mediocrity and look at tournaments and bowling attacks. For them this just papers the cracks and is not a great achievement.

You cant go wrong either way.

But I would be wary of celebrating mediocrity because mediocrity breeds mediocrity.

Save the sermons Dr, weren't you doing bhangra when Fakhar fell and claimed 350 was very tough to chase? Why are you changing your tune now just because Riz scored?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Save the sermons Dr, weren't you doing bhangra when Fakhar fell and claimed 350 was very tough to chase? Why are you changing your tune now just because Riz scored?

Excuse me.

I never did any Bhangra.

I even said that Babar was set for a 100 here but I guess Babar cant even buy a run if his life depended on it.

For context you are acting like Rizwan smashed a 100 off 60 balls and led Pakistan to a win.

Rizwan couldnt even strike a run a ball hundred and had Salman decided to bat like Rizwan for his century, Pakistan would have lost this game.

Riz fans like you got lucky that Salman bailed out the hero.

I have never rated Rizwan and never will.

 

[msb314]

I dont think anyone cares about runrate.

The question was simply is it something to celebrate out considering that it was against a B string SA side with bowlers being Bosch and Mulder etc.

I think the answer depends on what your standards are.

Some fans are simply happy with a few wins here and there and do not believe we have the team to win important tournaments. They will celebrate this because this is the only thing worth celebrating for in their eyes.

Some fans like me dont accept mediocrity and look at tournaments and bowling attacks. For them this just papers the cracks and is not a great achievement.

You cant go wrong either way.

But I would be wary of celebrating mediocrity because mediocrity breeds mediocrity.

You are biased…

All the 350+ scores clever chased have been in bilaterals - mostly mediocre bowling attacks.

Were they also celebrating mediocrity?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You are biased…

All the 350+ scores clever chased have been in bilaterals - mostly mediocre bowling attacks.

Were they also celebrating mediocrity?

As I said, I have nothing against you celebrating this.

Why should I celebrate a win that is not even a part of any major tournament?

Forgive me for not leaping up in joy.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Few of the greatest chase that did not figure in this list is Ireland chasing New zealand at Dublin

2022

NZ made 360/6
Ireland ended up with 359/9

2023

West Inies 374/6
Netherlans 374/9

Netherlands won in super over which eliminated West Indies from 2023 world cup

2023 - world cup

Austrlaia 388
New zealand 383/9

Nowadays with additional field restriction in the middle overs teams are able to break it down into 2 T20s + 10 overs. 350 is a gettable total if you have depth.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Isn't this chase very similar to Pakistan beating Australia at Lahore? Target was 349. Just 1 run below 350. You could say more or less 350.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Chasing 350+ is no joke. Run-rate matters when you have to win by huge margins for NRR. ELse nobody really cares about RR if your team is winning matches.

WIin is more important.

 

[daytrader]

Rate him or not, Rizwan is on top when it comes to high run chases

 

[BouncerGuy]

Rate him or not, Rizwan is on top when it comes to high run chases


View attachment 150742

No one is gonna accept this list... it is fake, fabricated etc etc...

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Aqib Javid is working wonders with the team, getting them to ditch the play-it-safe approach until the 35th over then go all out. Team was aggressive from ball 1

But Rizwan isn’t , he played an inns that even at 330 looked like they will lose , Salman played an excellent innings.

Rizwan played 50+ dots himself when chasing 353

 

[mominsaigol]

Rate him or not, Rizwan is on top when it comes to high run chases


View attachment 150742

Not really fair to put YK or any other past legend on the list due to the era difficulty and how difficult it was to even make 300 let alone chase it back then.

However when it comes to the current crop, it needs to be acknowledged. He's done exceptionally well in odi chases.

 

[mominsaigol]

No one is gonna accept this list... it is fake, fabricated etc etc...

Not fake or fabricated, i remember these chases, their against c string aus, Sri Lanka and sa.

Regardless i won't take anything away from rizzu as chasing 300+ is always tricky.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Not fake or fabricated, i remember these chases, their against c string aus, Sri Lanka and sa.

Regardless i won't take anything away from rizzu as chasing 300+ is always tricky.

Even if they are b-c-d teams, you still have to score runs and chasing is never the strong point of Pakistan no matter what and where, so riz definitely shook the fans with his record.

 

[mominsaigol]

Even if they are b-c-d teams, you still have to score runs and chasing is never the strong point of Pakistan no matter what and where, so riz definitely shook the fans with his record.

I don't have an issue with rizzu in odi anymore because their aren't any replacements atm. So it's fine.

I do have an issue with Babar in all formats and rizwan in t20 though.

 

[emranabbas]

But Rizwan isn’t , he played an inns that even at 330 looked like they will lose , Salman played an excellent innings.

Rizwan played 50+ dots himself when chasing 353

For ODIs, it was a good chase. You always need one player anchoring the innings, but the issue arises when both Babar and Rizwan play as anchors, with no one willing to attack. If the chase had been in Babar and Rizwan's hands instead of Salman and Babars had, it would have never been impossible to chase

 

[Justcrazy]

To be honest it is an achievement , considering how easily Pakistan batting has fallen chasing 300 plus totals . I personally did not expect Pakistan to chase that down after 3 quick wickets.

 

[Jazx]

But Rizwan isn’t , he played an inns that even at 330 looked like they will lose , Salman played an excellent innings.

Rizwan played 50+ dots himself when chasing 353

First you need to understand how an ODI game is played. It was not possible for salman to win that single handedly niether for rizwan. Also it would have been even more difficult if fakhar have not given that start in powerplay. It was a team effort and no doubt salman's contribution was the best.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think Pakistani fans hate themselves more than they hate the team.

For once, I'd like it we could just appreciate a win instead of poking holes in every little thing.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The biggest problem with Pakistani fans is that they have no sense of awareness. As a cricketing nation Pakistan are medicore and have been for a very long time. But the expectations from fans are such that you would think we are Australia. It's like, come back to reality mate.

Appreciate performances like these because they won't come along that often. Appreciate the form this team is in right now, because it could go away in the blink of an eye.

This sport is meant to be enjoyed, not overanalyzed, nitpicked and drained of all its joy with posts like these.

I question your fandom as a fan if you can't even enjoy a win like this one.

 

[Devadwal]

Chasing 350 is not a Joke Even against second string team's .

 

[MenInG]

For Pakistan at this time - anything above 300 is an achievement.

 

[W63L35]

I hope NZ does not celebrate winning the trophy with a RR of 4.57 runs per over after 35 overs.... and the over all S/R 5.36 in the whole innings. Shame on NZ for winning with such a poor RR.

 

[mon858]

I hope NZ does not celebrate winning the trophy with a RR of 4.57 runs per over after 35 overs.... and the over all S/R 5.36 in the whole innings. Shame on NZ for winning with such a poor RR.

View attachment 150777

You have misinterpreted my post. I am not complaining about run rate at all.
What they achieved was very good and worth watching and appreciating.

I was raising a point that the chase was setup by the 90 run powerplay and helped by the bowling/conditions, hence, we should not hype that part of the innings to the moon. Otherwise, come next game we are bound to be brought down to earth.

NZ on same pitch could have got close to 300 with their run rate and wickets in hand which was quite above par. Today's pitch was 280 to 300 pitch. But in middle overs we spent most of innings blocking and not even able to get 4 single and over to some of their spinners. If we had got 20 to 30 run more in middle over we could have setup 275 or so and made a match out of it.

So if you compare the innings today I feel the post I made stands vindicated.

I have nothing against celebrating wins but just keep reality check in mind is better than hyping things to the moon.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I hope NZ does not celebrate winning the trophy with a RR of 4.57 runs per over after 35 overs.... and the over all S/R 5.36 in the whole innings. Shame on NZ for winning with such a poor RR.

View attachment 150777

Why would NZ play at 6 runs per over if the RRR is 5?

You clearly don't understand the concept of "scoring to improve required run rate".

 

[topspin]

I believe Rizwan's innings is massively overrated on here.

Not enough credit is given for Pakistan's positive approach in the first 10 overs. 90 runs were scored during this period which were clutch to the cause. This allowed Pakistan to chase more like 260ish in 240 balls, which was more than gettable when you are batting in the dew against a depleted South African bowling attack.

There's no need to cut cake for this hundred. It was scored at a relatively slow tempo Here are the facts to back this up:

• Rizwan took 64 balls to get to 50. This equates to a strike rate of 78. After he reaches 50, Pakistan required 171 balls from 129 balls. The run rate required was 8 runs per over.
• Despite high run rate required in the last 20 overs, Rizwan wasn't even able to take his strike rate up to run a ball, as he could only score 122 runs off 128 balls in very good batting conditions against a depleted SA bowling attack

It was a Misbah-esque innings. The only difference being, he managed to score a hundred. Something Misbah would never have never have done because he was unable to accomplish during his ODI career

Salman Agha carried Rizwan hard, as evident by his stellar strike rate of 130. Had he got out with half (or less) number of runs, Pakistan probably would've lost this game. He played a gem of an innings.

Rizwan's innings wasn't all that and if we're being honest, it was potentially match losing, if anything. If you're going to struggle to score above run a ball against a B/C string bowling attack in dew conditions then chances are you're going to struggle in the CT where there's nowhere to hide. He will have to prove himself against first string world class bowling attacks if he wants to win over his critics. But we all know he simply doesn't have the shot range because of his terrible offside game, so the bottom line is best to keep expectations low.

 

[topspin]

It's a big achievement anyway we look at it. OP is downplaying the SA bowling attack but they still had 3 of their regular bowlers plus they're a great fielding unit.

I bet if Fakhar had scored a century or if Saim was playing and we won, it would've been considered a big achievement.

The difference is Fakhar has a proven track record not just against first string bowling attacks in random bilaterals but also on the big stage against world class bowling attacks in high pressure matches.

So please stop trying to paint an agenda which is simply isn't there. Fakhar is a proven matchwinner, difference maker, clutch run scorer etc -whatever you want to call it.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I hope NZ does not celebrate winning the trophy with a RR of 4.57 runs per over after 35 overs.... and the over all S/R 5.36 in the whole innings. Shame on NZ for winning with such a poor RR.

View attachment 150777

Well said... Exactly....

All that matters is win in the end. Making a noise on run rate even if the team wins is crazy....LOL

 

[W63L35]

Well said... Exactly....

All that matters is win in the end. Making a noise on run rate even if the team wins is crazy....LOL

Exactly!!!

11 times in 4834 ODIs... a total of 350+ was chased successfully.
That translates to once every 439 ODIs...... pretty rare occurrence!
First time a score of 350+ was successfully chased was on March 12, 2006 - in 2351st ODI.

.....and yet, some posts in this thread are amazing! Wow!

 

[BouncerGuy]

Exactly!!!

11 times in 4834 ODIs... a total of 350+ was chased successfully.
That translates to once every 439 ODIs...... pretty rare occurrence!
First time a score of 350+ was successfully chased was on March 12, 2006 - in 2351st ODI.

.....and yet, some posts in this thread are amazing! Wow!

Yeah, and people will start crying that they chased the total too slowly...LOL

Who cares about Run rate when you have chased a record total?

 

[mominsaigol]

The difference is Fakhar has a proven track record not just against first string bowling attacks in random bilaterals but also on the big stage against world class bowling attacks in high pressure matches.

So please stop trying to paint an agenda which is simply isn't there. Fakhar is a proven matchwinner, difference maker, clutch run scorer etc -whatever you want to call it.

Not only that, but Saim ayub in his short odi career already butchered a full strength aussie attack into next week and scored a century against full strength sa bowling attack in their own home soil.

Both fakhar and saim are the 2 best players in the country atm.

 

[psyoptica]

Exactly!!!

11 times in 4834 ODIs... a total of 350+ was chased successfully.
That translates to once every 439 ODIs...... pretty rare occurrence!
First time a score of 350+ was successfully chased was on March 12, 2006 - in 2351st ODI.

.....and yet, some posts in this thread are amazing! Wow!

Pakistan team outdid themselves by chasing a 350 score in a match. It's an achievement in itself but nothing to lose your mind over. What matters most is consistency to win regularly which Pakistan team never had and never will as long as fans like yourself exist.

This has been the norm with the Pakistan team. Continue to underperform and then win big every now and then to erase all your past sins.

Pakistan will never be a top 3 team even if the ICC rankings say so.

 

[daytrader]

The difference is Fakhar has a proven track record not just against first string bowling attacks in random bilaterals but also on the big stage against world class bowling attacks in high pressure matches.

So please stop trying to paint an agenda which is simply isn't there. Fakhar is a proven matchwinner, difference maker, clutch run scorer etc -whatever you want to call it.

And Rizwan isn't?

He's our best wicket keeping batter ever and tops the charts when it comes to chasing. Give credit where it's due

 

[Rana]

I believe Rizwan's innings is massively overrated on here.

Not enough credit is given for Pakistan's positive approach in the first 10 overs. 90 runs were scored during this period which were clutch to the cause. This allowed Pakistan to chase more like 260ish in 240 balls, which was more than gettable when you are batting in the dew against a depleted South African bowling attack.

There's no need to cut cake for this hundred. It was scored at a relatively slow tempo Here are the facts to back this up:

• Rizwan took 64 balls to get to 50. This equates to a strike rate of 78. After he reaches 50, Pakistan required 171 balls from 129 balls. The run rate required was 8 runs per over.
• Despite high run rate required in the last 20 overs, Rizwan wasn't even able to take his strike rate up to run a ball, as he could only score 122 runs off 128 balls in very good batting conditions against a depleted SA bowling attack

It was a Misbah-esque innings. The only difference being, he managed to score a hundred. Something Misbah would never have never have done because he was unable to accomplish during his ODI career

Salman Agha carried Rizwan hard, as evident by his stellar strike rate of 130. Had he got out with half (or less) number of runs, Pakistan probably would've lost this game. He played a gem of an innings.

Rizwan's innings wasn't all that and if we're being honest, it was potentially match losing, if anything. If you're going to struggle to score above run a ball against a B/C string bowling attack in dew conditions then chances are you're going to struggle in the CT where there's nowhere to hide. He will have to prove himself against first string world class bowling attacks if he wants to win over his critics. But we all know he simply doesn't have the shot range because of his terrible offside game, so the bottom line is best to keep expectations low.

Rizwan faced over 200 balls in these three games and scored at a sr of 79

 

[topspin]

Rizwan faced over 200 balls in these three games and scored at a sr of 79

Misbah-esque strike rate, that too against a depleted South African bowling attack.

 

[topspin]

And Rizwan isn't?

If Rizwan is a difference maker in the mould of someone like Fakhar Zaman, then why does he have a strike rate of just 125 in over 90 T20Is innings?

There's absolutely no excuse for his mediocre strike rate. He's opened in over 80% of all the T20Is he's played, so he's had a great chance to enjoy the powerplay overs and feast on minnows and depleted bowling attacks in bilaterals.

To put this into context, a strike rate of 125 is the equivalent of scoring 150 off 20 overs, which is well below par in the modern game. This may have been an acceptable strike rate in the 2000s when T20 cricket was in its infancy but certainly not in the current era.

In ODIs, he has a strike rate of less than 70 in Australia and the same applies for his overall strike rate against India. I've picked these two teams out because they have the strongest bowling attacks.

This is a symptom of Misbah-ism. You have been brainwashed by such mediocrity, your standards are always in the gutter. This what happens when you place Misbah, Rizwan and Babar on a pedestal.

But when it comes Wasim Akram and Younis Khan, who are our legends, for some reason you want to run toxic campaigns against them.

He's our best wicket keeping batter ever and tops the charts when it comes to chasing.

Says more about Pakistan's standards. The fact that you think this is an achievement epitomises your appetite for mediocrity. Pakistan have the weakest legacy when it comes to wicket-keeper batsmen.

It's like a Shakib fan bragging that he's the best all-rounder that Bangladesh has ever produced.

Give credit where it's due

I hope Rizwan proves me wrong in the CT, I genuinely do because unlike you I support Pakistan more than any individual player.

But I will be keeping my expectations low because world class bowling attacks know that he has no offside game, so if they can restrict his scoring options on the legside, Rizwan will have to bring his best impersonation of Misbah. After all, he's the best actor we've got in the team.

 

[daytrader]

If Rizwan is a difference maker in the mould of someone like Fakhar Zaman, then why does he have a strike rate of just 125 in over 90 T20Is innings?

There's absolutely no excuse for his mediocre strike rate. He's opened in over 80% of all the T20Is he's played, so he's had a great chance to enjoy the powerplay overs and feast on minnows and depleted bowling attacks in bilaterals.

To put this into context, a strike rate of 125 is the equivalent of scoring 150 off 20 overs, which is well below par in the modern game. This may have been an acceptable strike rate in the 2000s when T20 cricket was in its infancy but certainly not in the current era.

Thread is about ODIs but sure bring in another format and that too which is Fakhar's worst. Rizwan hits more sixes than Fakhar in T20Is. Isn't that what you guys want to see?

This is a symptom of Misbah-ism. You have been brainwashed by such mediocrity, your standards are always in the gutter. This what happens when you place Misbah, Rizwan and Babar on a pedestal.

But when it comes Wasim Akram and Younis Khan, who are our legends, for some reason you want to run toxic campaigns against them.

Rizwan has a stellar record while chasing. Scored a century in Pakistan's first successful chase of 350+ and scored a century in the highest chase in a World Cup. That's not mediocre by any standards, so quit trying to downplay those achievements.

And again you're trying to derail another thread to make it about Misbah. We get it, he gives you nightmares. Move on or get help.

Says more about Pakistan's standards. The fact that you think this is an achievement epitomises your appetite for mediocrity. Pakistan have the weakest legacy when it comes to wicket-keeper batsmen.

It's like a Shakib fan bragging that he's the best all-rounder that Bangladesh has ever produced.

The two comparisons are not the same. Pakistan has a rich history of Wicket Keeper batters whereas Bangladesh doesn't have many genuine allrounders.

Rizwan being ahead of guys like Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, Kamran Akmal and Sarfraz Ahmed, is no small achievement. If we get a bowler that's better than Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis, would you still be using this logic?

I hope Rizwan proves me wrong in the CT, I genuinely do because unlike you I support Pakistan more than any individual player.

I don't believe this at all. You're a proven Rizwan hater and you would rather see him fail than Pak win. If you were genuine with your statement, you would have no problem giving him credit for his achievements.

 

[psyoptica]

What happened today?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Haan bhai karlo celebrate 350 vs Mulder, Bosch and Muthu company.

As usual, the culprits celebrating inconsequential achievements.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Haan bhai karlo celebrate 350 vs Mulder, Bosch and Muthu company.

As usual, the culprits celebrating inconsequential achievements.

I think it is very easy to satisfy common pak cricket fan. You can suck for 100 matches. One good match regardless of the context. Everything get erased.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I think it is very easy to satisfy common pak cricket fan. You can suck for 100 matches. One good match regardless of the context. Everything get erased.

They won a one day series in Australia and Sourh Africa recently.

Problem is that they’re actually a decent team but some of their players play too selfishly.

Even today looking at the way Salman Agha, Khushdil were smashing the kiwis for fun, it felt like they would have cruised to the total if every batter played with intent.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

They won a one day series in Australia and Sourh Africa recently.

Problem is that they’re actually a decent team but some of their players play too selfishly.

Even today looking at the way Salman Agha, Khushdil were smashing the kiwis for fun, it felt like they would have cruised to the total if every batter played with intent.

Salman yes.

By the time Khushdil came, match was lost.

Its a different pressure to smash the ball when the match is 90 percent gone vs when the pressure is on.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Salman yes.

By the time Khushdil came, match was lost.

Its a different pressure to smash the ball when the match is 90 percent gone vs when the pressure is on.

Still.
I’m a terrible match experience where already so many people got exposed I’m going to give credit to anyone who managed a good AR no matter in what situation.

 

[Rana]

Salman yes.

By the time Khushdil came, match was lost.

Its a different pressure to smash the ball when the match is 90 percent gone vs when the pressure is on.

Bro the required rr was 10 when Khushdil was at the crease. The guy did try his best to try and match that required rate for quite a few overs. He also did manage to bring the equation to 100 to win from 8 overs, that’s not really impossible to chase but it’s very difficult if you are the only recognised batter left. Can’t really fault Khushdil much today.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Bro the required rr was 10 when Khushdil was at the crease. The guy did try his best to try and match that required rate for quite a few overs. He also did manage to bring the equation to 100 to win from 8 overs, that’s not really impossible to chase but it’s very difficult if you are the only recognised batter left. Can’t really fault Khushdil much today.

Oh I dont think he played bad.

He did well but I am not sold on him doing this in crunch moments.

For now my team has 3 trustworthy players.

Fakhar, Saim and Salman.

The core group of Pakistan team should be around these 3 players and rest of the team should be discarded.

 

[Rana]

Oh I dont think he played bad.

He did well but I am not sold on him doing this in crunch moments.

For now my team has 3 trustworthy players.

Fakhar, Saim and Salman.

The core group of Pakistan team should be around these 3 players and rest of the team should be discarded.

Fakhar will continue to be mistreated by this leadership group of Rizwan/Babar/Misbah/Saya. They will find excuses to shift him at 4-5 so Rizwan and Babar can bat in the top 3 for T20is in the Asia cup and later the T20 World Cup. I would be surprised if he doesn’t really take retirement before the next 50 over World Cup too and just do his thing trying to make as much money as he can playing franchise cricket. He looks done with this lot.

 

[topspin]

Rizwan has a stellar record while chasing.

Saw that today didn't we?

There's a reason why I said keep expectations low.

Scored a century in Pakistan's first successful chase of 350+ and scored a century in the highest chase in a World Cup. That's not mediocre by any standards, so quit trying to downplay those achievements.

Remind me against which bowling attack?

The two comparisons are not the same. Pakistan has a rich history of Wicket Keeper batters whereas Bangladesh doesn't have many genuine allrounders.

Rizwan being ahead of guys like Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, Kamran Akmal and Sarfraz Ahmed, is no small achievement. If we get a bowler that's better than Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis, would you still be using this logic?

No disrespect to Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, Kamran Akmal and Sarfraz Ahmed but if this is your definition of "rich history of wicket keeper batters" then wow I guess your standards are even lower than what I thought they were.

I don't believe this at all. You're a proven Rizwan hater and you would rather see him fail than Pak win. If you were genuine with your statement, you would have no problem giving him credit for his achievements.

Please try harder, this is what I said after beat Pakistan beat Australia:

I enjoyed watched this series. Some magnificent fast bowling, particularly from Haris Rauf.

I have been critical of Rizwan in the past but he deserves a lot of credit for this series win.

Congrats and in sha Allah long may this continue because after the defeats against USA and India, I was on the verge of giving up cricket for good.

Direct link to the post can be found here:

https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/thre...australia-after-22-years.315765/post-12368189

You've been exposed for your insincerity and/or reading of the game, when you've gone and praised Rizwan for mediocre knocks such as the one in the 2021 WT20 SF against Australia and atrocious ones like the 2024 WT20 game against India. But the one that takes the cake is your ardent support for Misbah's Mohali classic. Exposing blind followers like you does not equate to hatred.

As mentioned in my previous post, you've run toxic campaigns against Wasim Akram and Younis Khan, so please take a look in the mirror before you accuse another poster of being a "hater" because I promise you this will backfire in your face again in the future.