Is the American & Western inspired "India as a counterweight to China" project over?

[Savak]

A country with a population of 1.5 billion people, an economy of $4 trillion dollars, booming educated middle class with decent pockets, a 1.5 million army, poorly trained air force and untested navy.

India has been embarrassed twice by Pakistan in 2019 and 2025 and by China in 2020. According to reports floating around on social media, the West is now having a rethink about selling their most valuable technology and assets to the Indians especially if they are going to use it in such an amateurish unprofessional manner as failure to use the weapons, technology successfully in battle leads to reduced demand and perception of poor quality.

Laughable at the perception that India can pose any threat or challenge to China in the region.

 

[sweep_shot]

India is no match to China. Neither economically nor militarily.

 

[Bhaijaan]

We stand nowhere close to our neighbour Pakistan with its 15 trillion dollar economy and a fleet of 7th gen fighter jets who shoot lasers beams. Pakistan is the real superpower of the world.

1. Pakistan
2. China
3. Azerbaijan
4. Turkey
5. Maldives
6. Bangladesh

That’s a fair ranking of the worlds mightiest nations

 

[Buzzinga]

We stand nowhere close to our neighbour Pakistan with its 15 trillion dollar economy and a fleet of 7th gen fighter jets who shoot lasers beams. Pakistan is the real superpower of the world.

1. Pakistan
2. China
3. Azerbaijan
4. Turkey
5. Maldives
6. Bangladesh

That’s a fair ranking of the worlds mightiest nations

I think Bagladesh tops the ranking followed by others @sweep_shot

 

[sweep_shot]

Hopefully China will decimate India slowly. They already grabbed 2000 sq km of Indian land and India could do nothing about it.

A weaker and fractured India is good for subcontinent's stability.

 

[Suleiman]

Pakistan is the tribal chief of South Asia right now and India will acknowledge that going forward.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This thread is about India and China, but as usual, to avoid direct comparisons, the usual suspects have dragged Bangladesh and Pakistan into the discussion. However, this doesn't change the reality that China is so far ahead of India that even the thought of comparing the two makes some people uncomfortable.

To cope, they shift the focus to Bangladesh and Pakistan. Ironically, even Pakistan has recently shown it can stand its ground and isn't a pushover. I believe we should focus on developing India and mind our own business, rather than pretending to be the 'area ka dada' which we clearly are not.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

After Indians begged Trump for a ceasefire, Trump announced that the tariff situation with China would be resolved.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

India was a strong ally to US and European bloc but once it got better economically and started showing its muscles as a 4th big nation by carrying out covert strikes in Canada etc , the same bloc decided to keep Pakistan relevant in front of India so that it doesn’t grow any more , that is the real truth.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Otherwise if Us and Israel had decided to finish off Pak in this war then they wouldn’t have agree for IMF loans in the middle of war and they wouldn’t have opted for ceasefire arrangement.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indians need to stop trying to align with the west and understand that Asia is rising and they should aim to be part of it. I don't understand Indian posters who parrot western narrative on here, they seem totally brainwashed. It is like watching the UK ditch Europe in favour of the US...despite us actually living and being part of Europe where logistics means business in Europe should always be paramount.

 

[Romali_rotti]

the same bloc decided to keep Pakistan relevant in front of India so that it doesn’t grow any more , that is the real truth.

No not quite.

US will never abandon Pakistan because of the below:

- CIA has deep ties within the ISI, CIA uses them to gather intelligence on China and also to disrupt the supply routes via Gwador port, aka in the form of terrorism, killing of Chinese nationals etc,

- Lastly, Pakistan possess the nuclear capability, so cannot allow it to go rogue as it would be disasterous for rest of the world.

Pakistan as a country however is a lost cause...

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indians need to stop trying to align with the west and understand that Asia is rising and they should aim to be part of it. I don't understand Indian posters who parrot western narrative on here, they seem totally brainwashed. It is like watching the UK ditch Europe in favour of the US...despite us actually living and being part of Europe where logistics means business in Europe should always be paramount.

Only Pakistan is rising.

Rest of us are centuries behind where you have reached in your minds.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

No not quite.

US will never abandon Pakistan because of the below:

- CIA has deep ties within the ISI, CIA uses them to gather intelligence on China and also to disrupt the supply routes via Gwador port, aka in the form of terrorism, killing of Chinese nationals etc,

- Lastly, Pakistan possess the nuclear capability, so cannot allow it to go rogue as it would be disasterous for rest of the world.

Pakistan as a country however is a lost cause...

Good observations but I don’t think pak would betray china and side with US knowing their nature of abandoning their allies.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Good observations but I don’t think pak would betray china and side with US knowing their nature of abandoning their allies.

It's not Pakistan as a whole or it's government would betray China, CIA has assets in the ISI which will always work against China's interest and that is all the Americans need to contain China in Pakistan's neighbourhood.

To put it bluntly Pakistan is a hand grenade to anyone it deals with be it friends or foes....

 

[the Great Khan]

The project is over. It was stupid to start off with. Pakistan and India via China and Russia should settle our differences and think about the future of our region and people. Hopefully this episode will demonstrate how stupid war in our region is. The west is now divided. They are scrambling for economic survival. This grand idea of containing China was a myth. And trumps tarrif war has exposed it. India should go back to what it does best..making money..the hindutva fairy story should be put back into the myths of history..

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The project is over. It was stupid to start off with. Pakistan and India via China and Russia should settle our differences and think about the future of our region and people. Hopefully this episode will demonstrate how stupid war in our region is. The west is now divided. They are scrambling for economic survival. This grand idea of containing China was a myth. And trumps tarrif war has exposed it. India should go back to what it does best..making money..the hindutva fairy story should be put back into the myths of history..

Said before on PP that we need a regional vision similar to what was achieved by the Arabs, such as when MBS declared Qatar's WC is a victory for all Arabs, not long after ending the economic boycott.

A united Kashmir, where Kashmiris can live in peace and prosperity, would be the first step towards such a tilt.

 

[Champ_Pal]

No. If any, western nations now realize that China is far more advanced than they estimated. So they have to support India more to counter China.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The project is over. It was stupid to start off with. Pakistan and India via China and Russia should settle our differences and think about the future of our region and people. Hopefully this episode will demonstrate how stupid war in our region is. The west is now divided. They are scrambling for economic survival. This grand idea of containing China was a myth. And trumps tarrif war has exposed it. India should go back to what it does best..making money..the hindutva fairy story should be put back into the myths of history..

Agreed with most of what you said. The current border must be made permanent and both nations should stop dreaming of other’s territory. Only then peace will prevail.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

No. If any, western nations now realize that China is far more advanced than they estimated. So they have to support India more to counter China.

It's not in Western nations interest to allow India to grow more , India has already reached it's peak and further development means a direct competition with the big boys.

However the western nations will try to maintain a sustainable status for India in the near future in order to keep an eye on China there is no doubt about it.

 

[the Great Khan]

Said before on PP that we need a regional vision similar to what was achieved by the Arabs, such as when MBS declared Qatar's WC is a victory for all Arabs, not long after ending the economic boycott.

A united Kashmir, where Kashmiris can live in peace and prosperity, would be the first step towards such a tilt.

Yes true. We should unite Kashmir and create a soft border between india and Pakistan. End the damned hostilities. People need to survive and are sick of living in a s-hole..why can't our leaders see this? As soon as a leader tries something he goes to jail. Enough. South Asia must lower the temperature and think about the people. Otherwise they are all dead..literally. if climate doesn't get them , starvation and poverty or war will. What kind of future is that??

 

[Romali_rotti]

Yes true. We should unite Kashmir and create a soft border between india and Pakistan. End the damned hostilities. People need to survive and are sick of living in a s-hole..why can't our leaders see this? As soon as a leader tries something he goes to jail. Enough. South Asia must lower the temperature and think about the people. Otherwise they are all dead..literally. if climate doesn't get them , starvation and poverty or war will. What kind of future is that??

Humans....

What a disgusting species we are.

 

[Champ_Pal]

It's not in Western nations interest to allow India to grow more , India has already reached it's peak and further development means a direct competition with the big boys.

However the western nations will try to maintain a sustainable status for India in the near future in order to keep an eye on China there is no doubt about it.

Western nations have no choice. Of course India can become a problem for them in a few decades. But their immediate threat is China. Their only hope to keep China engaged in a tense situation with India is to pump up India. This also means China cannot Taiwan with utter disregard. They will have multiple fronts to deal with.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Western nations have no choice. Of course India can become a problem for them in a few decades. But their immediate threat is China. Their only hope to keep China engaged in a tense situation with India is to pump up India. This also means China cannot Taiwan with utter disregard. They will have multiple fronts to deal with.

From what I am seeing is that western bloc is going to narrow the gap between pak and India to what it was 2 decades ago and I am seeing several efforts from them in order to restore the balance of power in the region and this intervention in war and timely provision of IMF loan in critical condition is just the initial steps and even though Pak is in self destruct mode since last 2 decades it’s not in western bloc interests that Pak deteriorated even further for their own strategy usage.

They can’t allow India to come any where close to become regional dictator by any means.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

The western bloc doesn’t care about akhand bharat fairytale hence they will bring the Kashmir topic in next dgmos meetings.

 

[Golu-m]

This thread is about India and China, but as usual, to avoid direct comparisons, the usual suspects have dragged Bangladesh and Pakistan into the discussion. However, this doesn't change the reality that China is so far ahead of India that even the thought of comparing the two makes some people uncomfortable.

To cope, they shift the focus to Bangladesh and Pakistan. Ironically, even Pakistan has recently shown it can stand its ground and isn't a pushover. I believe we should focus on developing India and mind our own business, rather than pretending to be the 'area ka dada' which we clearly are not.

Bangladeshi defence expert @uppercut @Mesozoic @Devadwal

 

[Lonewarrior]

IAF is no match to PLAAF

heres J-16D , electronic warfare aircraft , if fully loaded can do alot of damage ..

 

[BouncerGuy]

You are trying to say that America is using India for its Misadventures???

I guess that makes sense if you are saying that

 

[psyoptica]

No not quite.

US will never abandon Pakistan because of the below:

- CIA has deep ties within the ISI, CIA uses them to gather intelligence on China and also to disrupt the supply routes via Gwador port, aka in the form of terrorism, killing of Chinese nationals etc,

- Lastly, Pakistan possess the nuclear capability, so cannot allow it to go rogue as it would be disasterous for rest of the world.

Pakistan as a country however is a lost cause...

Well so is india. Indians more than ever are desperate to leave India. It seems like Modi spectacularly failed to sell the dream if shining india to the indians.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Well so is india. Indians more than ever are desperate to leave India. It seems like Modi spectacularly failed to sell the dream if shining india to the indians.

Yeah agreed.

I would say India is probably 50 years behind Pakistan.

 

[psyoptica]

Yeah agreed.

I would say India is probably 50 years behind Pakistan.

maybe not 50 but at least 15 years behind Pakistan

 

[Romali_rotti]

maybe not 50 but at least 15 years behind Pakistan

No that's too generous, 50 is just about right.

Now if India works real hard for the next 200 years they can maybe get close to Pak level.

 

[Savak]

A common murmur from reporters and analysts close to the US State Department and deep state is that one of the major reasons why the US has distanced itself from going out of its way to support India in the recent standoff with Pakistan and hyphenating India Pakistan again is the growing displeasure over India's arrogance in recent years ie refusal to take sides in the Russian Ukraine conflict, refusal to stop purchasing Russian oil despite American and Western pressure not to do so, independent trade and economic policies, India's arrogant rogue assassinations in Canada and the US, trying to influence governments in Bangladesh, Afghanistan and generally proving to be more difficult to work with in comparison to a country like Pakistan.

Also India's recent Millitary performance against Pakistan in 2019, China in 2022 and Pakistan in 2025 has been far from impressive and the Americans have been unhappy with the ball Indians buying their arms from France, Russia, Israel and completely ignoring the Americans

The Americans and other western countries are now really just putting India in its place that despite India being a $4 trillion economy, its per capita income still lags behind vast majority of first world countries.

 

[Bhaijaan]

A common murmur from reporters and analysts close to the US State Department and deep state is that one of the major reasons why the US has distanced itself from going out of its way to support India in the recent standoff with Pakistan and hyphenating India Pakistan again is the growing displeasure over India's arrogance in recent years ie refusal to take sides in the Russian Ukraine conflict, refusal to stop purchasing Russian oil despite American and Western pressure not to do so, independent trade and economic policies, India's arrogant rogue assassinations in Canada and the US, trying to influence governments in Bangladesh, Afghanistan and generally proving to be more difficult to work with in comparison to a country like Pakistan.

Also India's recent Millitary performance against Pakistan in 2019, China in 2022 and Pakistan in 2025 has been far from impressive and the Americans have been unhappy with the ball Indians buying their arms from France, Russia, Israel and completely ignoring the Americans

The Americans and other western countries are now really just putting India in its place that despite India being a $4 trillion economy, its per capita income still lags behind vast majority of first world countries.

America, its satellite states, and delusional sections of the Pakistani commentariat need to wake up to a simple reality that tt wasn’t the West that “allowed” India to become a $4 trillion economy, and it won’t be the West that determines India’s rise to becoming the world’s #1 economy in the near future. That trajectory is rooted in India’s own civilizational strength.

India does not trade its sovereignty for someone else’s geopolitical ambitions. We pursue our national interest always have, always will. We were never interested in being a regional lieutenant of the U.S. to "counter" China, and we won’t be in the future either. We don’t need to. We are the most populous nation on Earth, with our own global vision and strategic objectives. We engage with nations on the basis of mutual respect and equal footing, not subservience like what you do in Pakistan where you go door to door begging for loans and free weapons. That's not the country that we have ever been. We are a proud civilization. Begging is not our DNA.

And for America, perhaps they should first address its own house, a national debt of $36 trillion, rising by a trillion every eight months lol. What a joke. If current trends hold, it won’t be long before India and China, not Washington, are empowering the likes of Mexico, Brazil, and Canada to encircle the United States. The geopolitical game works both ways. When it comes to nations, always see long term. America is a diminishing power. The kind of rejections they're dealing with today from everywhere is not something they have been used to and its driving them crazy. In your own write up you talked about American displeasure over the so called arrogance of India. You're half right about it. Indeed the Americans are absolutely in their feelings about it but its not arrogance but India standing firm and proud on its foreign policy and sovereignty. Americans are used to agreeable nations like Pakistan who offer to become regional colonies to them for dollars and freebies. Americans love that. Its something they wish in their dreams India could do to for them. But we're not up for sale.

And the whole "use India to contain China" narrative was always a fantasy cooked up by Western think tanks and media who thought by just mentioning it a trillion times over and over again will turn it into a reality one day but India's always told them to shut the hell up about it. In truth, the U.S. has long understood that India is not a pawn but a future emperor A dog doesn’t empower a lion to fight another lion when it knows the lion will dominate the jungle either way.

 

[Hitman]

No that's too generous, 50 is just about right.

Now if India works real hard for the next 200 years they can maybe get close to Pak level.

India will have to self destruct for 50 more years to reach Pakistan's current conditions.

 

[Savak]

Moeed Pirzada with an interesting take on what's gone wrong for India diplomatically in western capitals especially the US and how Jay Shankars arrogant condescending treatment towards Western diplomats is now coming back to bite India.

Watch from 12:25 to 17:35

 

[straighttalk]

Otherwise if Us and Israel had decided to finish off Pak in this war then they wouldn’t have agree for IMF loans in the middle of war and they wouldn’t have opted for ceasefire arrangement.

Nope..Pak is China's proxy to do its dirty deeds..basically warm bodies to be sacrificed and test Chinese weapons ..the West doesn't want to lose leverage over pak and imf loans is how they achieve that...remember how the fatf ban had the Taliban leader finished ...so good to keep a rogue country in line

 

[straighttalk]

A common murmur from reporters and analysts close to the US State Department and deep state is that one of the major reasons why the US has distanced itself from going out of its way to support India in the recent standoff with Pakistan and hyphenating India Pakistan again is the growing displeasure over India's arrogance in recent years ie refusal to take sides in the Russian Ukraine conflict, refusal to stop purchasing Russian oil despite American and Western pressure not to do so, independent trade and economic policies, India's arrogant rogue assassinations in Canada and the US, trying to influence governments in Bangladesh, Afghanistan and generally proving to be more difficult to work with in comparison to a country like Pakistan.

Also India's recent Millitary performance against Pakistan in 2019, China in 2022 and Pakistan in 2025 has been far from impressive and the Americans have been unhappy with the ball Indians buying their arms from France, Russia, Israel and completely ignoring the Americans

The Americans and other western countries are now really just putting India in its place that despite India being a $4 trillion economy, its per capita income still lags behind vast majority of first world countries.

India is not like Pakistan to be used and discarded by us and now clinging to China..India has its own foreign policy..it won't fight others war against China and it doesn't expect others help in a war specially against weak countries...what it wants is good economic and strategic relationship with most countries

 

[Bhaijaan]

I have made peace with the fact that the hatred and envy against India is very real and common across the world and it stems from the simple fact that we are Hindus and do not belong to the two largest religions of the world who control 180 nations.

There is no point denying this.
There is no point expecting something extraordinary from these Hindu haters.

Christians and Muslims everywhere in the world will always be Anti India unless it’s got something to do with Business in which case they will be superficially nice to us on our face.

That implies. Nothing that is said by outsiders about India should matter to Indians because they don’t carry any love or goodwill for you in their hearts.

We have to continue to look after ourselves. Continue to build this nation stronger and stronger brick by brick. Continue to create business dependencies for nations so that despite their deep hatred for our culture and our existence they’re forced to work with us.

Continue to build bigger and more devastating weapons. Always keep the entire world on its toes that the mere thought of going to war with India gives them chills down their spines. India is the only country in the world that actually desperately needs a weapon capable of ending everything on the planet as the last of the last of the last resort if a day comes when the world conspires to eliminate our culture and country’s existence from the planet. They are 190 nations. We are only 1. I don’t think Uranium or Thorium cuts it for us. We have to create THE GOD WEAPON as specifically mentioned in Vedas. A Brahmasheera brought to reality in the modern era.

 

[straighttalk]

IAF is no match to PLAAF

heres J-16D , electronic warfare aircraft , if fully loaded can do alot of damage ..

We know that..China is far ahead of us..what's even there to debate about that...unlike some we are not morons....yet China doesn't do any misadventure..wonder why

 

[Bhaijaan]

Moeed Pirzada with an interesting take on what's gone wrong for India diplomatically in western capitals especially the US and how Jay Shankars arrogant condescending treatment towards Western diplomats is now coming back to bite India.

Watch from 12:25 to 17:35

The unpleasant Jay Shankar absolutely had to happen. It was only a matter of time. We have for decades been forcefully made to listen to Westerners preaching diplomacy to us.

Jayshankar was appointed to specifically break that thread itself.

We will not entertain any more Western preachiness.

 

[straighttalk]

Indians need to stop trying to align with the west and understand that Asia is rising and they should aim to be part of it. I don't understand Indian posters who parrot western narrative on here, they seem totally brainwashed. It is like watching the UK ditch Europe in favour of the US...despite us actually living and being part of Europe where logistics means business in Europe should always be paramount.

Where do you see India parroting Western theories...all we care is Paksitan not send terrorists to India to kill innocents and if they do..to teach the pakistani generals a lesson they don't forget. ..since future wars by Pakistan is a non starter..such actions are needed to remind them that there is a cost for terrorism. There is no Western eastern etc..ir there is a pak leader who says no terrorism..India will respond in peace.

 

[psyoptica]

America, its satellite states, and delusional sections of the Pakistani commentariat need to wake up to a simple reality that tt wasn’t the West that “allowed” India to become a $4 trillion economy, and it won’t be the West that determines India’s rise to becoming the world’s #1 economy in the near future. That trajectory is rooted in India’s own civilizational strength.

India does not trade its sovereignty for someone else’s geopolitical ambitions. We pursue our national interest always have, always will. We were never interested in being a regional lieutenant of the U.S. to "counter" China, and we won’t be in the future either. We don’t need to. We are the most populous nation on Earth, with our own global vision and strategic objectives. We engage with nations on the basis of mutual respect and equal footing, not subservience like what you do in Pakistan where you go door to door begging for loans and free weapons. That's not the country that we have ever been. We are a proud civilization. Begging is not our DNA.

And for America, perhaps they should first address its own house, a national debt of $36 trillion, rising by a trillion every eight months lol. What a joke. If current trends hold, it won’t be long before India and China, not Washington, are empowering the likes of Mexico, Brazil, and Canada to encircle the United States. The geopolitical game works both ways. When it comes to nations, always see long term. America is a diminishing power. The kind of rejections they're dealing with today from everywhere is not something they have been used to and its driving them crazy. In your own write up you talked about American displeasure over the so called arrogance of India. You're half right about it. Indeed the Americans are absolutely in their feelings about it but its not arrogance but India standing firm and proud on its foreign policy and sovereignty. Americans are used to agreeable nations like Pakistan who offer to become regional colonies to them for dollars and freebies. Americans love that. Its something they wish in their dreams India could do to for them. But we're not up for sale.

And the whole "use India to contain China" narrative was always a fantasy cooked up by Western think tanks and media who thought by just mentioning it a trillion times over and over again will turn it into a reality one day but India's always told them to shut the hell up about it. In truth, the U.S. has long understood that India is not a pawn but a future emperor A dog doesn’t empower a lion to fight another lion when it knows the lion will dominate the jungle either way.

Tell that to poor chandu and thousands of other indians who are willing to live like prisoners miserable and depressed but they rather stay poor like this in America than go back to India. Lol

 

[speed]

India has always been rich, the richer it gets the more prone it gets to being invaded, we need to fatten the chicken some more before we come and take it as invaders have done for thousands of years.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India has always been rich, the richer it gets the more prone it gets to being invaded, we need to fatten the chicken some more before we come and take it as invaders have done for thousands of years.

Dream: Invading India

The Soldiers:

 

[ElRaja]

Yes, like they say, there are decades where nothing happens, and then there are days where decades happen. Eventually, the May misadventure will go down as one of the greatest geostrategic blunders in Indian foreign policy history.

 

[sweep_shot]

Yup. It is over.

A country that loses 6 jets in 2 days and 2000 sq km of territory in 5 years can't be a counterweight to China.

 

[speed]

Dream: Invading India

The Soldiers: View attachment 155233

Don't worry we will give brahmins like you, good jobs as tax collectors.

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes, like they say, there are decades where nothing happens, and then there are days where decades happen. Eventually, the May misadventure will go down as one of the greatest geostrategic blunders in Indian foreign policy history.

Agree with you.

India didn't just lose the battle but also lost the narrative war. No other country believed their narrative; maybe that's why they are sending in delegates to convince others they won (LMAO!).

Chaiwala's shortsightedness was in full display.

 

[RexRex]

Eventually, the May misadventure will go down as one of the greatest geostrategic blunders in Indian foreign policy history.

How is it a blunder ?

^ Pakistani geostrategic analysis is always funny to read.

 

[Champ_Pal]

India is not counter weight to China. India never asked for it and India does not let west to use their airbases or let west establish military check posts near China border. In fact India has maintained relations with both US and Soviet block since its independence. It never fully went into any super power’s fold for money or material gains.
India is its own boss and they do what benefits them.

It is in western interests to maintain good relations with India. 4T economy and growing fast is something no country can ignore including its rival China.

China does billions of dollars worth business with India. They do not want India to progress fast as they can potentially challenge them in the future. They do not want an emerging power so close to their border. So they pit Pakistan against India to bleed India. By making India spend billions on military which they should be using for infrastructure. Pakistan is happy to play the role of giving g headache to India with Kashmir issue. It’s an eternal dance.

 

[ElRaja]

How is it a blunder ?

^ Pakistani geostrategic analysis is always funny to read.

ive made multiple posts on this, but heres the cliff notes in no particular order

1. Battleground evidence that paf can integrate into chinese comms and recce networks
2. shambolic mismanagement of foreign narrative, zero foreign implications for pak, thus implying no one believes indias terrorism narrative, or worst for india, allows pakistan to get away with it.
3. shambolic intelligence management, the pehelgam killers are still free
4. put pakistan firmly in between china and the usa again, pakistan has dreamt and failed of being in this position since the late 80s, india managed to do it in one week
5. It made Pakistan's army look good, ensuring foreign powers knew exactly who they were dealing with long term, and making Pakistan a potential geo-strategic partner for countries again.

This is a strategic blunder which reeks of criminal level of incompetence by indian strategists.

 

[RexRex]

ive made multiple posts on this, but heres the cliff notes in no particular order

1. Battleground evidence that paf can integrate into chinese comms and recce networks
2. shambolic mismanagement of foreign narrative, zero foreign implications for pak, thus implying no one believes indias terrorism narrative, or worst for india, allows pakistan to get away with it.
3. shambolic intelligence management, the pehelgam killers are still free
4. put pakistan firmly in between china and the usa again, pakistan has dreamt and failed of being in this position since the late 80s, india managed to do it in one week
5. It made Pakistan's army look good, ensuring foreign powers knew exactly who they were dealing with long term, and making Pakistan a potential geo-strategic partner for countries again.

This is a strategic blunder which reeks of criminal level of incompetence by indian strategists.

Clearly, we live in different worlds. I don't agree with anything you've said .. especially the point about nobody believing India's terrorism narrative. A huge part of the West not saying anything has to do with India remaining silent on the Russia/Ukraine issue. It's tdit for tat.

The only thing that went wrong from India's POV is the IAF losing a plane or two.

 

[straighttalk]

ive made multiple posts on this, but heres the cliff notes in no particular order

1. Battleground evidence that paf can integrate into chinese comms and recce networks
2. shambolic mismanagement of foreign narrative, zero foreign implications for pak, thus implying no one believes indias terrorism narrative, or worst for india, allows pakistan to get away with it.
3. shambolic intelligence management, the pehelgam killers are still free
4. put pakistan firmly in between china and the usa again, pakistan has dreamt and failed of being in this position since the late 80s, india managed to do it in one week
5. It made Pakistan's army look good, ensuring foreign powers knew exactly who they were dealing with long term, and making Pakistan a potential geo-strategic partner for countries again.

This is a strategic blunder which reeks of criminal level of incompetence by indian strategists.

1. That if true and not a fertile propaganda...is a tactical issue and would have been present irrespective of India s attack. Now India will be better prepared.
2. This is in your dream. Every country has stood beside India except the usual **** handlers...no one expects anything from China Turkey or Azerbaijan. What a group to support Pakistan. Show me tweet from a western country saying we stand with Pakistan or Pakistan has the right to self defense. You guys either have low standards or low expectations. Do we expect us to send soldiers to fight Pakistan when India can handle three Paksitan at once.

3. Yes this is true but *** is strategic Abt this. It's a dense mountainous area with a neighboring border terror state and local support. Look bad but don't know how it's a strategic defeat.

4. This is good for Paksitan but doesn't happen due to India. It's mostly that us and China are rivals and Pak is a bikau country....so good for you but not because of India.

5. Pak army only looks good to Pak awam due to ispr propaganda...in India modi would be out of power and massive criticism of our bases and cities were on fire and anything and. Anyone could be hit anytime the enemy wanted. But again you guys have very low standards and expectations. So please be mediocre and be happy.

And remember how your bilwala was humiliated by the US congressmen. What tulsi gabbard and Hegeseth said. What Putin did and say..how Israel and others stood beside India while you enjoy Bangladesh and Azerbaijan support. You only had your all weather friend China and Turkey..two countries of importance provide support that was expected

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Where do you see India parroting Western theories...all we care is Paksitan not send terrorists to India to kill innocents and if they do..to teach the pakistani generals a lesson they don't forget. ..since future wars by Pakistan is a non starter..such actions are needed to remind them that there is a cost for terrorism. There is no Western eastern etc..ir there is a pak leader who says no terrorism..India will respond in peace.

Your response doesn't seem to have much relevance to what I actually said. Are you sure you aren't answering a different post?

You are talking about mimicry and Indian parroting of western propaganda tactics (using their language is a good example), my point was more about India trying to align with the west and losing their foothold in the east as a result of that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Clearly, we live in different worlds. I don't agree with anything you've said .. especially the point about nobody believing India's terrorism narrative. A huge part of the West not saying anything has to do with India remaining silent on the Russia/Ukraine issue. It's tdit for tat.

The only thing that went wrong from India's POV is the IAF losing a plane or two.

Why would anyone believe India's narrative when they presented no proof for it, and jumped to blame Pakistan almost before the last body fell to the ground? It was terribly managed, anyone with any sense can see it.

 

[RexRex]

Why would anyone believe India's narrative when they presented no proof for it, and jumped to blame Pakistan almost before the last body fell to the ground? It was terribly managed, anyone with any sense can see it.

Maybe you should study the history of the region and figure out which country has a solid record of engaging in terrorism and numerous wars with India. It isn't Siberia.

 

[straighttalk]

Why would anyone believe India's narrative when they presented no proof for it, and jumped to blame Pakistan almost before the last body fell to the ground? It was terribly managed, anyone with any sense can see it.

Hafeez Saeed and masoor roaming around publicly and freely

UN designated terrorist praying for the killed terrorists with uniformed jehadis standing behind him

Previous confessions by Imran Musharraf and now by defense minister of past track record

Denials and then acceptance in Mumbai attack.

Fake denials every time there is a terror attack

Daniel pearl murder

Osama housee as chief guest.

So when a known sexual predator is your neighbor and there is a rape in the neighborhood....people tend to suspect that guy first. Is it enough to convict in the cout of law..no...

 

[straighttalk]

Your response doesn't seem to have much relevance to what I actually said. Are you sure you aren't answering a different post?

You are talking about mimicry and Indian parroting of western propaganda tactics (using their language is a good example), my point was more about India trying to align with the west and losing their foothold in the east as a result of that.

You clearly said India parroting Western narratives..so I was responding to that. You clarified it here ..so let me get to that .

India is not aligned with West. India is a leader of non aligned. India faces two threats...China and Chinas satellite state Pakistan. India do not need allies to handle Pakistan but Pakistan is an irritant with or without any alignment.

Same goes for China but China is much powerful than India and there is strategic alignment with us but it's not a military alliance...hence India maintains strategic autonomy.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Maybe you should study the history of the region and figure out which country has a solid record of engaging in terrorism and numerous wars with India. It isn't Siberia.

So what does that mean? India can just claim for any attack on Indian territory it is ok to blame Pakistan by default due to historical precedence?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hafeez Saeed and masoor roaming around publicly and freely

UN designated terrorist praying for the killed terrorists with uniformed jehadis standing behind him

Previous confessions by Imran Musharraf and now by defense minister of past track record

Denials and then acceptance in Mumbai attack.

Fake denials every time there is a terror attack

Daniel pearl murder

Osama housee as chief guest.

So when a known sexual predator is your neighbor and there is a rape in the neighborhood....people tend to suspect that guy first. Is it enough to convict in the cout of law..no...

See above query put to @RexRex

 

[RexRex]

So what does that mean? India can just claim for any attack on Indian territory it is ok to blame Pakistan by default due to historical precedence?

It means showing evidence to Pakistan bears zero fruit. A criminal is not going to investigate himself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It means showing evidence to Pakistan bears zero fruit. A criminal is not going to investigate himself.

That works both ways. If you want to get worldwide support for acts of war then you have to show some proof why you are undertaking it. Don't pretend you don't understand this. Especially given Indian attempts to get worldwide support to get Pakistan on the FATF list.

 

[ElRaja]

1. That if true and not a fertile propaganda...is a tactical issue and would have been present irrespective of India s attack. Now India will be better prepared.
2. This is in your dream. Every country has stood beside India except the usual **** handlers...no one expects anything from China Turkey or Azerbaijan. What a group to support Pakistan. Show me tweet from a western country saying we stand with Pakistan or Pakistan has the right to self defense. You guys either have low standards or low expectations. Do we expect us to send soldiers to fight Pakistan when India can handle three Paksitan at once.

3. Yes this is true but *** is strategic Abt this. It's a dense mountainous area with a neighboring border terror state and local support. Look bad but don't know how it's a strategic defeat.

4. This is good for Paksitan but doesn't happen due to India. It's mostly that us and China are rivals and Pak is a bikau country....so good for you but not because of India.

5. Pak army only looks good to Pak awam due to ispr propaganda...in India modi would be out of power and massive criticism of our bases and cities were on fire and anything and. Anyone could be hit anytime the enemy wanted. But again you guys have very low standards and expectations. So please be mediocre and be happy.

And remember how your bilwala was humiliated by the US congressmen. What tulsi gabbard and Hegeseth said. What Putin did and say..how Israel and others stood beside India while you enjoy Bangladesh and Azerbaijan support. You only had your all weather friend China and Turkey..two countries of importance provide support that was expected

easy bro, i can feel you foaming at the mouth here, lol

1. no it wouldnt, being battle proven is totally different to dry prep, this is a given.
2. pak have suffered zero consequences after indias claims, hence no one believes or cares what india says, massive foreign policy L.
3. indian intelligence looks incompetent
4. significantly because of india, US thought india could be a regional balance to china, after last month its obviously not.
5. Pakistanis are always happy, its better to be medioce, self aware and happy, than incompetent, deluded and frustrated anyday

 

[RexRex]

That works both ways. If you want to get worldwide support for acts of war then you have to show some proof why you are undertaking it. Don't pretend you don't understand this. Especially given Indian attempts to get worldwide support to get Pakistan on the FATF list.

I guess India has decided it doesn't want worldwide support and are going to go forth with cross-border airstrikes. Or atleast this BJP govt has decided so.

The previous Congress govt would have done it the way you wanted it. Pakistan faced zero consequences for 2008 Mumbai attacks a.k.a 26/11. Of course I know you consider that a false flag operation.

 

[sweep_shot]

Interacting with sanghis is like interacting with 2-year olds. This thread is a prime example.

India is nowhere close to China. China wipes the floor with India in every metric.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I guess India has decided it doesn't want worldwide support and are going to go forth with cross-border airstrikes. Or atleast this BJP govt has decided so.

The previous Congress govt would have done it the way you wanted it. Pakistan faced zero consequences for 2008 Mumbai attacks a.k.a 26/11. Of course I know you consider that a false flag operation.

I find it funny that you keep talking about conspiracy theories and false flag ops when you yourself are quite happy to go along with the narrative that India can decide Pakistan is behind every terror attack even before it has happened.

 

[straighttalk]

easy bro, i can feel you foaming at the mouth here, lol

1. no it wouldnt, being battle proven is totally different to dry prep, this is a given.
2. pak have suffered zero consequences after indias claims, hence no one believes or cares what india says, massive foreign policy L.
3. indian intelligence looks incompetent
4. significantly because of india, US thought india could be a regional balance to china, after last month its obviously not.
5. Pakistanis are always happy, its better to be medioce, self aware and happy, than incompetent, deluded and frustrated anyday

Self aware and Pakistan doesn't go together.

Battle proven is not a strategic loss for Indis...and most Chinese maal failed ..hq9 fatah missile radars etc.

Fair if you say that you received imf bailout.

You are confusing strategic failure vs a failure in an incident...by your logic the train hijack is a strategic loss without any Indian involvement. Or are you admitting Pahalgam was your doing.

Lmao..go and listen to Hegeseth speech.india is not keen to be fighting against China..we don't want to be the economic counterweight..China and India are mature.....they don't fight wars in modern days...China uses Pakistan to lose their men and do dirty work...India allies with Western countries to economically rival China. The last months events have militarily proven Indias absolute superiority as has been shown by blasting Pak bases and jehadi camps . So your logic falls apart there. Before you come to jets...know that us lost 76 jets in operation desert slam to Iraq..by your logic us lost the war. Grow up..I know you guys have very low expectations..but still

Its your prerogative for no 5...good luck.

 

[HalBass9]

Self aware and Pakistan doesn't go together.

Battle proven is not a strategic loss for Indis...and most Chinese maal failed ..hq9 fatah missile radars etc.

Fair if you say that you received imf bailout.

You are confusing strategic failure vs a failure in an incident...by your logic the train hijack is a strategic loss without any Indian involvement. Or are you admitting Pahalgam was your doing.

Lmao..go and listen to Hegeseth speech.india is not keen to be fighting against China..we don't want to be the economic counterweight..China and India are mature.....they don't fight wars in modern days...China uses Pakistan to lose their men and do dirty work...India allies with Western countries to economically rival China. The last months events have militarily proven Indias absolute superiority as has been shown by blasting Pak bases and jehadi camps . So your logic falls apart there. Before you come to jets...know that us lost 76 jets in operation desert slam to Iraq..by your logic us lost the war. Grow up..I know you guys have very low expectations..but still

Its your prerogative for no 5...good luck.

Straight out of Godi media.

 

[Savak]

I wont be surprised if the American Deep State, Pentagon, CIA are not making plans behind the scenes to have the existing BJP-Modi govt replaced by Rahul Ghandi and the congress party.

 

[ElRaja]

Self aware and Pakistan doesn't go together.

Battle proven is not a strategic loss for Indis...and most Chinese maal failed ..hq9 fatah missile radars etc.

Fair if you say that you received imf bailout.

You are confusing strategic failure vs a failure in an incident...by your logic the train hijack is a strategic loss without any Indian involvement. Or are you admitting Pahalgam was your doing.

Lmao..go and listen to Hegeseth speech.india is not keen to be fighting against China..we don't want to be the economic counterweight..China and India are mature.....they don't fight wars in modern days...China uses Pakistan to lose their men and do dirty work...India allies with Western countries to economically rival China. The last months events have militarily proven Indias absolute superiority as has been shown by blasting Pak bases and jehadi camps . So your logic falls apart there. Before you come to jets...know that us lost 76 jets in operation desert slam to Iraq..by your logic us lost the war. Grow up..I know you guys have very low expectations..but still

Its your prerogative for no 5...good luck.

why so much anger bro, its almost like you dont believe what your typing yourself lol. obv ind isnt keen to fight china, india only intimidates smaller countries, when it comes to china you let them take your land out of your desire to be mature, lolol.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I wont be surprised if the American Deep State, Pentagon, CIA are not making plans behind the scenes to have the existing BJP-Modi govt replaced by Rahul Ghandi and the congress party.

I don't see why, for them India led by a party whose main aim is to create some mythical Mahabharata is perfect. Their public can be satiated on delusional dreams instead of becoming part of a much more ominous BRICS revolution which might threaten the economic stranglehold of dollar led finance.

 

[uppercut]

Moeed Pirzada with an interesting take on what's gone wrong for India diplomatically in western capitals especially the US and how Jay Shankars arrogant condescending treatment towards Western diplomats is now coming back to bite India.

Watch from 12:25 to 17:35

This is the same guy that said had India continued their military strikes for a few more days .... it would have crippled PAF

Here is the video: watch from about 17 mins onwards.
the theme of that video is how the Pakistani establishment makes a fool of Pakistani's ... apparently even the educated ones.

 

[HalBass9]

This is the same guy that said had India continued their military strikes for a few more days .... it would have crippled PAF

Here is the video: watch from about 17 mins onwards.
the theme of that video is how the Pakistani establishment makes a fool of Pakistani's ... apparently even the educated ones.

Why didn’t the Butcher of Gujarat finish the job and rescue the Hindutva cows left behind during Partition? I mean, they are the sacred bovine descendants, right? Or did the holiness get stuck at the Radcliffe Line?

The educated ones of India and their Godi media.

 

[straighttalk]

why so much anger bro, its almost like you dont believe what your typing yourself lol. obv ind isnt keen to fight china, india only intimidates smaller countries, when it comes to china you let them take your land out of your desire to be mature, lolol.

Bhai..ru Chinese..why such a loser mentality. Ask them to take ladakh and Arunachal ..then we can talk..otherwise go back and cheer on the Aussies to beat us in cricket and moan about bcci control...Tum bd aur Pakistani on ka ek hi prob...my big bro is gonna kick you ass...well big bro is powerful but he ain't keen to fight in the battlefield

 

[straighttalk]

I think the Paksitani team is now counting western arm companies after the abject failure of Chinese weapons..aise rona dhona and begging ...lmao .mast hai bhia..India to kuch Kiya hai nehi and Chinese maal is superb sir

‘Would have been in rubbles...’: Pakistan begs US for advanced air defence to after India’s BrahMos strikes - BusinessToday

Pakistan’s Federal Minister Musadik Malik said, “India came at with 80 planes carrying 400 missiles, some of which are capable of carrying nuclear warheads. We would have been in rubbles if we had no air defence systems. The technology that India was deploying is far advanced.”

www.businesstoday.in

Before you say Indian media..your minister is on video...so blame him not the media sharing the video

 

[HalBass9]

I think the Paksitani team is now counting western arm companies after the abject failure of Chinese weapons..aise rona dhona and begging ...lmao .mast hai bhia..India to kuch Kiya hai nehi and Chinese maal is superb sir

‘Would have been in rubbles...’: Pakistan begs US for advanced air defence to after India’s BrahMos strikes - BusinessToday

Pakistan’s Federal Minister Musadik Malik said, “India came at with 80 planes carrying 400 missiles, some of which are capable of carrying nuclear warheads. We would have been in rubbles if we had no air defence systems. The technology that India was deploying is far advanced.”

www.businesstoday.in

Before you say Indian media..your minister is on video...so blame him not the media sharing the video

Hindutva really is the perfect paradox, the most educated group managing to be the dumbest in every room they walk into.

 

[straighttalk]

Hindutva really is the perfect paradox, the most educated group managing to be the dumbest in every room they walk into.

You might want to start by calling Indians as dumb as that would be factually correct..not all Indians are Hinduvta folks

 

[straighttalk]

Pak begging for Western arms after getting ass kicked and cheeni maal glitching out...80 jets 400 missiles..hum ka to watt lag gya

 

[Greenstorm]

Otherwise if Us and Israel had decided to finish off Pak in this war then they wouldn’t have agree for IMF loans in the middle of war and they wouldn’t have opted for ceasefire arrangement.

Two points here.

1. That IMF loan to Pakistan has nothing to do with India. It is a compulsion for West in order to prevent Pakistan from completely going into Chinese camp or going its own way. Imagine Pakistan going the Iranian way. That is a nightmare that West wants to avoid and hence they collude with Pakistani military to a) Prevent democracy from flourishing because democratic Pakistan will inevitably cause problems for Israel like Morsi situation in Egypt and b) It keeps mullahs and other conservative forces including Afghan Taliban in check. As a result, Pakistani military gets a free pass against India eventhough its against Western interests as they want to prop India as South Asian hegemon against China. Pakistani generals can exploit this situation (actions against India) further but most of their families reside in West.... .

2. Current US president is an anomaly in that he is not a puppet of deep state like we normally see with US presidents so his actions do not always represent the Western policy. He yearns to present himself as this great statesman who brokers peace deals. He is also easy to influence with juicy deals and knowing Pakistani generals, they have probably bought his good grace. Remember the mineral bills passed in Pakistani 'elected' assemblies and this BTC reserve shenanigans (Trump loves crypto) ?