Is the Indian ODI batting a victim of its own success?

[Mainul]

Than give him some fair play awards or a medal for being selfless.Nothing else.
Best finisher is decided only by what their overall record is and how many times they have snatched victory from jaws of opponent.
Both of them have done it many times but its the str rate part where dhoni trumps bevan.Msd was much more agressive.

Both were of two different era.SR is very obviously should be higher in MSD's era.Moreover ,Bevan faced more ATG or great bowlers than MSD.The style of play of these two are quiet different too.I don't like to compare,but if you want to know my opinion it will be Bevan.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION] if someone agree or dissagree.indian batting other thna top 3 is rubbush and non exixtent Their bowling without one pacer who is number 1 in the ranking is ordinary.so a top class team who want to win major tournaments and every match should have all areas covered.

See how simple it is to understand. But we have guys here who want to create their own filters and are not looking at the bigger picture. Number 1 ranked bowler can easily become a 10th ranked bowler if he doesn't play much for India.

Let me explain it further Rashid Khan of Afghanistan and Shakib of Bangladesh are/were number 1 ranked bowler too that doesn't make their bowling attacks number 1 in the world. Even a kid can understand this. India chasing 300 successfully does prove my point that our bowlers have a habit of conceding 300 frequently. Also I have not taken into consideration the pressure indian batsman has to score over 300+ while batting first just because our bowlers find it difficult to defend anything less than 270.

 

[Itachi]

See how simple it is to understand. But we have guys here who want to create their own filters and are not looking at the bigger picture. Number 1 ranked bowler can easily become a 10th ranked bowler if he doesn't play much for India.

Let me explain it further Rashid Khan of Afghanistan and Shakib of Bangladesh are/were number 1 ranked bowler too that doesn't make their bowling attacks number 1 in the world. Even a kid can understand this. India chasing 300 successfully does prove my point that our bowlers have a habit of conceding 300 frequently. Also I have not taken into consideration the pressure indian batsman has to score over 300+ while batting first just because our bowlers find it difficult to defend anything less than 270.

There's what you can wish for and there's reality.

Every team has their strength and weaknesses. And they have to play accordingly.

India batsman already knows the weakness and play to their strength.

You can't expect the team to be invincible in every aspect of the game. You have to hide your weaknesses with your strength. Whoever does better is the winner.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

There's what you can wish for and there's reality.

Every team has their strength and weaknesses. And they have to play accordingly.

India batsman already knows the weakness and play to their strength.

You can't expect the team to be invincible in every aspect of the game. You have to hide your weaknesses with your strength. Whoever does better is the winner.

You are right. But I am not the one who is trying to hide our weakness behind number 1 ranked bowler from our team.

 

[cricketindiafan]

India have conceded 300+ 8 times in 42 matches in last 2 years. Our bowlers have a combined bowling average of 30.56, an economy rate of 5.17 and a strike rate of 35.1 in these two years, better than any other top 8 side. Same is the case with our batting number avg of 45+, SR of 93.

Only area where we are in the bottom half is when it comes to our keeper batsman who has a SR of 80 in such a strong batting line up. Only WI have a worse strike rate than our keeper. BTW the same guy has a batting average of 51 which only reinforces the point about him being a liability and playing for his average.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Number of times a bowling unit has conceded 300+ in last 2 years
Australia 9/39
Eng 12/46
NZ 5/41
Pakistan 7/33
SA 5/31
SL 11/44
WI 8/36
BD 6/28

 

[cricketjoshila]

India have conceded 300+ 8 times in 42 matches in last 2 years. Our bowlers have a combined bowling average of 30.56, an economy rate of 5.17 and a strike rate of 35.1 in these two years, better than any other top 8 side. Same is the case with our batting number avg of 45+, SR of 93.

Only area where we are in the bottom half is when it comes to our keeper batsman who has a SR of 80 in such a strong batting line up. Only WI have a worse strike rate than our keeper. BTW the same guy has a batting average of 51 which only reinforces the point about him being a liability and playing for his average.

But [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]

Said India concedes 300 plus scores frequently.

 

[DRsohail]

See how simple it is to understand. But we have guys here who want to create their own filters and are not looking at the bigger picture. Number 1 ranked bowler can easily become a 10th ranked bowler if he doesn't play much for India.

Let me explain it further Rashid Khan of Afghanistan and Shakib of Bangladesh are/were number 1 ranked bowler too that doesn't make their bowling attacks number 1 in the world. Even a kid can understand this. India chasing 300 successfully does prove my point that our bowlers have a habit of conceding 300 frequently. Also I have not taken into consideration the pressure indian batsman has to score over 300+ while batting first just because our bowlers find it difficult to defend anything less than 270.

yes agreed.I have no inetrest in Indian cricket but i have to speak the truth and i have spoken it/1ask your dear friend that how many time india have won when top3 did perform??? i am impressed with spin attack though.

 

[DRsohail]

You are right. But I am not the one who is trying to hide our weakness behind number 1 ranked bowler from our team.

They will realize when this team fails in important WC match as they did in CT finals.I am not denying indian batting power but i will be licking my lips when india is 3 down before 100.India need another xpress fast bowler ideally left arm and 4,and 5 batsaman.kick out Raina and Dhoni.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

India have conceded 300+ 8 times in 42 matches in last 2 years. Our bowlers have a combined bowling average of 30.56, an economy rate of 5.17 and a strike rate of 35.1 in these two years, better than any other top 8 side. Same is the case with our batting number avg of 45+, SR of 93.

Only area where we are in the bottom half is when it comes to our keeper batsman who has a SR of 80 in such a strong batting line up. Only WI have a worse strike rate than our keeper. BTW the same guy has a batting average of 51 which only reinforces the point about him being a liability and playing for his average.

Correct. It is our batting that has let us down in recent years. Our batting slows down after top 3 lay a platform whereas in most top teams' the rate goes up.

 

[Sadevdesai]

It is no secret that Indian batting has always bailed out the Bowling !!!!!!

 

[PakLFC]

How many times have the opposition scored 300 vs India since CT 2017?

If it was that easy to sent Kohli Sholi's back they wouldnt be put into future ATG category. They dont fluke 300+ once in a while like Pakistan did in CT 2017.

The point is that batting first and scoring over 300 will put pressure on India as well. That batting second chasing a big score will put great pressure on even a very powerful batting line up. India mostly play at home don't they so let us see how good they are on away conditions for a change. No one is saying Kohli is not good however chasing 300 would put great pressure on him as well as proved in the CL final and England some days back. One fluke in a major final was enough to hammer you by 200 runs, that's all that is needed!

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The point is that batting first and scoring over 300 will put pressure on India as well. That batting second chasing a big score will put great pressure on even a very powerful batting line up. India mostly play at home don't they so let us see how good they are on away conditions for a change. No one is saying Kohli is not good however chasing 300 would put great pressure on him as well as proved in the CL final and England some days back. One fluke in a major final was enough to hammer you by 200 runs, that's all that is needed!

You are making too much sense in one post. Only real indian fans know how difficult it is for our batters to consistently score totals near 300 both batting first and second. The mindset is to give our bowlers huge totals to defend.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

But [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]

Said India concedes 300 plus scores frequently.

Last 2 years? How many matches were at home? Whole world knows our strength is our spin bowling when it comes to playing at home.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It is no secret that Indian batting has always bailed out the Bowling !!!!!!

It is an open secret.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The point is that batting first and scoring over 300 will put pressure on India as well. That batting second chasing a big score will put great pressure on even a very powerful batting line up. India mostly play at home don't they so let us see how good they are on away conditions for a change. No one is saying Kohli is not good however chasing 300 would put great pressure on him as well as proved in the CL final and England some days back. One fluke in a major final was enough to hammer you by 200 runs, that's all that is needed!

The question is how many times have India conceded 300 plus? How many times India too scored 300 plus in that game?

Flukes do not happen everyday. Thats why they are called flukes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Last 2 years? How many matches were at home? Whole world knows our strength is our spin bowling when it comes to playing at home.

Indian LOI pitches are not spinning spitting cobras. Secondly look up the opposition we played.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are making too much sense in one post. Only real indian fans know how difficult it is for our batters to consistently score totals near 300 both batting first and second. The mindset is to give our bowlers huge totals to defend.

Did you personally visit the team management asked their mindset? How do you read minds of players? Sometimes you claim players praised IPL for money. Now you comment on Indian team's mindset. How do you do it?

Sense will be if you look up the stats and see that Indian bowling has not given 300plus scores frequently as you claimed. Here teams are giving 400 plus away. But dont let the sense prevail over yoyr tinted glasses.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Last 2 years? How many matches were at home? Whole world knows our strength is our spin bowling when it comes to playing at home.

What?
India's pitches were criticised for being too easy in lois.So if we can restrict opposition below 300 in odis in india we can do it anywhere.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Did you personally visit the team management asked their mindset? How do you read minds of players? Sometimes you claim players praised IPL for money. Now you comment on Indian team's mindset. How do you do it?

Sense will be if you look up the stats and see that Indian bowling has not given 300plus scores frequently as you claimed. Here teams are giving 400 plus away. But dont let the sense prevail over yoyr tinted glasses.

How many matches were played at home in the last 2 years?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

What?
India's pitches were criticised for being too easy in lois.So if we can restrict opposition below 300 in odis in india we can do it anywhere.

So according to you indian bowling is the best and the reason we win most of our matches is because of our bowling not batting. Am I right?

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

So according to you indian bowling is the best and the reason we win most of our matches is because of our bowling not batting. Am I right?

No but it is decent enough.
We have won many matches due to our bowling.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The question is how many times have India conceded 300 plus? How many times India too scored 300 plus in that game?

Flukes do not happen everyday. Thats why they are called flukes.

India scoring 300+ too in the second inning actually proves there is always a pressure on indian batting to chase big targets.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

This is a classic case of first world problems

India's top 4, each of them, are proven game winners.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No but it is decent enough.
We have won many matches due to our bowling.

But according to joshila bhai it is the best because Bumrah is the number 1 ranked bowler.

So why are you arguing with me then?

 

[PakLFC]

You are making too much sense in one post. Only real indian fans know how difficult it is for our batters to consistently score totals near 300 both batting first and second. The mindset is to give our bowlers huge totals to defend.

What's your point? Your batting can be put under pressure if the opposition bats first scoring heavily. Your bowlers need your batsman to score heavily coz they won't be able to defend average totals.

 

[PakLFC]

The question is how many times have India conceded 300 plus? How many times India too scored 300 plus in that game?

Flukes do not happen everyday. Thats why they are called flukes.

What flukes are you talking about!! Pak have defeated you more times then the other way round in one day internationals. Kohli is Amir's bunny as we all know. England just took care of you in the one dayers! I am still unconvinced over how good India is playing abroad. Scoring first you mostly score heavily. When the opposition bats first scoring heavily India struggles as much as anyone else. Get Kohli and the rest will struggle without him.

 

[giri26]

The Indian batting has been struggling over the past year or so. It has always relied on the top 3 batters. India have been lucky with one of the three always stepping up but if they fail, the middle order cannot get us out of the woods. With a over the hill Dhoni and Raina, we have no chance of chasing anything.

 

[austerlitz]

Need to drop Dhoni and Raina.Play Rahul and Karthik.Iyer/Pant at 6.

 

[Varun]

Self explanatory bump.

Discuss.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indian top 3 making a mockery of another huge total as the middle/lower order remains untested.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Indian top 3 making a mockery of another huge total as the middle/lower order remains untested.

If they are really good they don't have to be tested. They are not good. That is the problem. It is largely due to inconsistent selection.

 

[Sam99]

It's not about testing and all. If top order fails consistent and middle order gets good amount of chance still we won't win matches. That's reason one of the top 3 (virat & rohit mostly) try to finish game on own.

 

[Bhaijaan]

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Hardly the first time it's happened. We see game after game where the top-3 (mainly Rohit & Kohli) plunder the runs to either set up or chase a total, and when the time comes in the odd game where everybody from below 4 have to bat lengthy periods in the innings, lo and behold - they fail.

The thing is, how do you ever go about fixing such a problem?

Never realised it at the time but this thread was spot on.

In that World Cup cycle, the Indian Top 3 scored 62 % of all the runs and the middle and lower order were constantly undercooked.

Rohit used to start very slowly in his first 30 balls in every innings (strike rate around 70)

Every other major top side's Top 3 scored only between 48-53% and looked to bat faster , including Pakistan .

Every time we lost Rohit and Kohli early, we lost spectacularly and there was no counter from the middle order - 2019 World Cup semifinal was an example of that.

Didn't have a proper #4 and Dhoni was also losing matches left, right and centre.

FF to 2022 onwards and Rohit's PP strike rate has gone above 120/125, maximising the PP and guys like Iyer and KL have had a lot more time in the middle and the ODI team looks far better with that approach.

 

[Varun]

Never realised it at the time but this thread was spot on.

In that World Cup cycle, the Indian Top 3 scored 62 % of all the runs and the middle and lower order were constantly undercooked.

Rohit used to start very slowly in his first 30 balls in every innings (strike rate around 70)

Every other major top side's Top 3 scored only between 48-53% and looked to bat faster , including Pakistan .

Every time we lost Rohit and Kohli early, we lost spectacularly and there was no counter from the middle order - 2019 World Cup semifinal was an example of that.

Didn't have a proper #4 and Dhoni was also losing matches left, right and centre.

FF to 2022 onwards and Rohit's PP strike rate has gone above 120/125, maximising the PP and guys like Iyer and KL have had a lot more time in the middle and the ODI team looks far better with that approach.

Now I forget after which match I began this thread.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Now I forget after which match I began this thread.

This was the match where Dhoni was booed by the crowd when he played a pathetic knock and didn't even attempt to chase England's score at Lord's.