Is the Pakistan team capable of winning on the same pitch India beat South Africa on?

[Savak]

This Indian win clearly shows how far India has gone ahead of Pakistan. There is no way that any Pakistani batting line up could have put on a fighting performance on such a pitch. Heck even the bowling line up would have struggled on this track.

 

[shokz1408]

This Indian win clearly shows how far India has gone ahead of Pakistan. There is no way that any Pakistani batting line up could have put on a fighting performance on such a pitch. Heck even the bowling line up would have struggled on this track.

We could defend the same score in the final innings, however our batsmen could no way give that many runs for our bowlers to defend, It would have been difficult for us to reach 200 in any innings. Our batsmen struggle if the ball moves around a bit, and it was doing a hell of a lot in this match, would be quite a comedy to watch us try and bat on this pitch..

 

[troodon]

Pak bowling would do well with Amir who can be like BK and Hasan like Bumrah.

However who will play the roles of Shami and Ishsnt and be effective?

Also, Pak batting will struggle to put 100 on board without YK and Misbah. AAli will be alright. The rest of batting will be badly exposed.

 

[DeadBall]

This current Pakistani Test team is incapable of anything, anywhere.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

No.

 

[Sam99]

Let's find out when they play at wanderers.

 

[Pete Rose]

Nope

 

[GLORY OF '92]

No.

Our Test team at the moment is a mess.

Only solid starters are Azhar, Harris, Shafiq, Sarf and Yasir.

 

[CadPakFan]

Pak bowling would do well with Amir who can be like BK and Hasan like Bumrah.

However who will play the roles of Shami and Ishsnt and be effective?

Also, Pak batting will struggle to put 100 on board without YK and Misbah. AAli will be alright. The rest of batting will be badly exposed.

Wahab could play the role of Shami and Junaid, Abbas or some new talented pacer could play the role of Ishant.

 

[Sadevdesai]

Not easy to forecast such things, and the forecasters are never held accountable, anyway !!! So it is free for all ..... throw some mud on the wall ... and something will always stick !!!

 

[pakistanisgreat]

I do not think we can even score 85 in this pitch.

However, we can defend that though!

 

[shokz1408]

I do not think we can even score 85 in this pitch.

However, we can defend that though!

We can't defend 85 against South Africa lol, 185 on that pitch, perhaps.. still I reckon SA would chase anything up to 199..

 

[Buffet]

Putting a target for 240 will be a bit too much for Pakistani batting line up. One of the most gutsy performance in recent years made it possible to get to 240 lead.

 

[Buffet]

This Indian win clearly shows how far India has gone ahead of Pakistan. There is no way that any Pakistani batting line up could have put on a fighting performance on such a pitch. Heck even the bowling line up would have struggled on this track.

Bowling may be less effective than Indians, but no way they will struggle in this pitch. You have to bowl pathetic to struggle in these kind of pitches.

 

[aloo paratha]

Bowling may be less effective than Indians, but no way they will struggle in this pitch. You have to bowl pathetic to struggle in these kind of pitches.

I only expect Hasan to bowl well in SA. If he debut Shaheen Shah he'll do pretty well too.

We should be expecting pathetic bowling from Mohammad Amir though.

 

[Shafi]

Our bowling is always superior to India but batting is just like associate teams. In this pitch we can even defend 150 runs but we will not score 100 in 2 innings combined.

 

[Buffet]

I only expect Hasan to bowl well in SA. If he debut Shaheen Shah he'll do pretty well too.

We should be expecting pathetic bowling from Mohammad Amir though.

I won't claim that Pakistan's test bowling is better than India. That will be delusional, but I also don't think that Pakistan's bowling will struggle in pitch like this. It will surely do worse than India due to not having enough skillful bowlers to exploit it, but I don't see Pakistani bowling unit struggling here.

You can be an ordinary pace unit and still do fine in pitch like this.

 

[DuckMaster]

Pakistan would have won by an innings margin inside 3 days. People grossly underrate Pakistan's batting. And people underrate Pakistan's bowling too. Pakistan has been, is, and shall always remain a champion side in all formats... in all conditions... on all sorts of pitches.

 

[coy0607]

Amir might've had a 15 wicket game

and Azhar would've batted for a solid 7 hours

 

[jnaveen1980]

Current Pakistan side? The one who lost to SL at home twice? One who struggled to dismiss Karunaratne?
Pakistan ODI bowling unit is solid. Test is not close to their past bowling line up. India dismissed them under 200 3 out of 6 times.

 

[cricguru]

Give me this test team and I can bet we can do alot better than India had done in SA test series, infact we can compete with Australia in Australia with this team.

1. Salman Butt
2. Ahmed Shahzad or Fakhar Zaman
3. Azhar Ali
4 Asad Safeeq
5. Harris Shoail
6. Sarfraz Ahmed
7. Yasir Shah
8. Faheem Ashraf on fast SA/AUS pitches and Sadab Khan on turning pitches
9. Hassan Ali
10. Mohammad Amir
11. Mohammad Asif

 

[Rightarmfast]

I won't claim that Pakistan's test bowling is better than India. That will be delusional, but I also don't think that Pakistan's bowling will struggle in pitch like this. It will surely do worse than India due to not having enough skillful bowlers to exploit it, but I don't see Pakistani bowling unit struggling here.

You can be an ordinary pace unit and still do fine in pitch like this.

Only that I dont think the Indian bowling unit is ordinary by any stretch of imagination.

 

[akki]

I guess pakistan would have defended this total as well. But i really really doubt they would have made 187 and 250 around runs in this match. I am afraid to say they wont have crossed 100 in both innings. This was that sort of pitch and conditions

 

[drrashmin]

This current Pakistani team can do anything...they are world-beaters...

Sure sir, we witnessed it in NZ recently.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Weren't you bowled out for 49 the last time you played on this pitch? And that was relatively easy to bat on. So no. Also I don't think Pakistan have the bowlers to do that.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Nur bowling may have done well but our batting would struggle,big-time

 

[CanadianG00se]

Bowling wise Pakistan could restrict SA to similar scores, however I dont see Pakistan scoring 247 on second innings. Most likely, Pakistan would’ve fizzled out for less than 100 on both innings.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

There is no way we could have scored 250 in the third innings like India did in extremely difficult conditions.3

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistan is far below top 5 test teams. Not sure what sense does this random comparison makes. Everybody and his dog know that India is far ahead of Pakistan in all formats.

 

[hafizexpress]

With the way the ball was moving around in this match, Pak wouldn't have crossed even 100 in both innings!

 

[Manager101]

One can never know how Pakistan team shows up on given day. According to history, our bowlers on green pitches have bundled big teams out for less than 150 and the likes of Amir and Abbas are probably green track bowlers and can easily be destructive on those conditions.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

OP has asked a question and then himself decided Pakistan could not have won on this wicket. Judge, Jury, Executioner.

Pakistan has surprisingly won a lot of games on green tops away from home - throughout their history.

Until they play on one or two such wickets in South Africa, we don't know. When both team are scoring under 200 runs, there is always chance.

 

[Hasan123]

No we wouldn't.

 

[Bilal7]

Any team with a decent pace attack would be in with a chance of winning on that pitch, if they bat first.

However, India played out of their skins to eventually win it and that is what Pakistan or New Zealand or Australia or England would need to do as well.

 

[Kroll]

Nah, not with the current batting lineup. Too many mental midgets that would crumble like a house of cards.

 

[akki]

Any team with a decent pace attack would be in with a chance of winning on that pitch, if they bat first.

However, India played out of their skins to eventually win it and that is what Pakistan or New Zealand or Australia or England would need to do as well.

Only due to this mentality you cud not win last test series even in uae when you had younis and misbah against new zealand or south africa or recently sri lanka white wash as well. Not to mention lost a test to west indies as well.
Dnt compare india we beat all these teams like a galli muhalla teams in subcontinent and if we had won the toss in first two matches then anhthing cud have happened.

Batting on seam and swing wicket on first morning was indeed very brave decision when opposition had five fast bowlers as well. All the commentators and experts and even us were saying . Anybody wud have choosen to bowl first here. Even south african captian said. He anyway wud have bowl first if they had won the toss.

 

[AAli98]

Mohammed Asif & Amir wouldn’t have let SA cross 90 on this joburg pitch.

 

[dhonixi]

No, pakistan will fold on less than 50 runs on this pitch.

 

[Tridibans_16]

Mohammed Asif & Amir wouldn’t have let SA cross 90 on this joburg pitch.

True. Like Dravid and Rahane would have let India chase in Capetown and win the series 2-1.

 

[Madplayer]

Chances of SA would be higher but on such a pitch you cant really say. You only need a couple of balls to bounce awkwardly and take the edge or glove and give a catch. That can turn the match around.

 

[CadPakFan]

Right now it's very unlikely but if we get a settled team and put some good changes to the side then we might put up a fight. I know I'm sounding optimistic but remember Pakistan is unpredictable.

 

[BaankeJi]

A Pakistani asking this question is justified as in doing self appraisal. An Indian asking this question is unnecessary.

 

[Bhaijaan]

India got the benefit of not having to bat last on that pitch. I don't know why a big deal is being made of a dead rubber fluke win. I would have called it a great win if the series was still alive. everybody please calm down. Pakistan drew 2-2 in England, i would be dancing naked on the streets of Delhi and running for my life and honour from those horny Haryanwi boys if India pulled off the same feat in England later this year.

 

[OmarKhan99]

This Indian win clearly shows how far India has gone ahead of Pakistan. There is no way that any Pakistani batting line up could have put on a fighting performance on such a pitch. Heck even the bowling line up would have struggled on this track.

Well, with our recent record of toughing it out on tough pitches and conditions and factoring Pakistan's tendency to destroy teams when they have nothing to lose, I would say that we would have a decent chance of beating them. I mean, you just have to bowl the bowl in the right areas and you get wickets on that pitch. Also, for those mentioning the SL whitewash of Pakistan just goes to show that they have so little to justify bashing Pakistan, that they actually have to resort to mentioning a series where most players were not only new to their roles but also new to the team. Also, didn't this same SL team draw a series against this almost exact settled Indian team in India. But, India still beat SA so that argument is quite irrelelvant. I don't consider looking too much into one series or anything but if we want to pull up recent perfromances then why don't we bring up the series that Pakistan squared against England in England, which was the same team that beat South Africa in South Africa earlier that year. I believe we have a good chance if we play with the right attitude and anyone not suffering from inferiority complex should clearly see that.

 

[drrashmin]

India got the benefit of not having to bat last on that pitch. I don't know why a big deal is being made of a dead rubber fluke win. I would have called it a great win if the series was still alive. everybody please calm down. Pakistan drew 2-2 in England, i would be dancing naked on the streets of Delhi and running for my life and honour from those horny Haryanwi boys if India pulled off the same feat in England later this year.

Point noted. Would you agree that SA were lucky not having to bat in 4th innings in first two tests?

 

[Mamoon]

No Pakistan side past or present would have scored anything above 150 on this pitch against this attack. It was a monumental effort by India.

 

[Buffet]

Well, with our recent record of toughing it out on tough pitches and conditions and factoring Pakistan's tendency to destroy teams when they have nothing to lose, I would say that we would have a decent chance of beating them. I mean, you just have to bowl the bowl in the right areas and you get wickets on that pitch. Also, for those mentioning the SL whitewash of Pakistan just goes to show that they have so little to justify bashing Pakistan, that they actually have to resort to mentioning a series where most players were not only new to their roles but also new to the team. Also, didn't this same SL team draw a series against this almost exact settled Indian team in India. But, India still beat SA so that argument is quite irrelelvant. I don't consider looking too much into one series or anything but if we want to pull up recent perfromances then why don't we bring up the series that Pakistan squared against England in England, which was the same team that beat South Africa in South Africa earlier that year. I believe we have a good chance if we play with the right attitude and anyone not suffering from inferiority complex should clearly see that.

If I recall it right, SL is yet to win a single test in India. Not sure which series you are referring where SL drew a test series in India.

 

[giri26]

OP has asked a question and then himself decided Pakistan could not have won on this wicket. Judge, Jury, Executioner.

Pakistan has surprisingly won a lot of games on green tops away from home - throughout their history.

Until they play on one or two such wickets in South Africa, we don't know. When both team are scoring under 200 runs, there is always chance.

Weren't Pakistan bowled out for under 50 in their last tour to SA with Younis and Misbah still in the team?

 

[OmarKhan99]

If I recall it right, SL is yet to win a single test in India. Not sure which series you are referring where SL drew a test series in India.

My bad. SL drew two matches and lost one in the series in India. IND 1 - 0 SL. But my original point still stands. They still pushed India to the limits and yet this same Indian Team beat SA. Hence, that series should hold no parameter for judgement.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Weren't Pakistan bowled out for under 50 in their last tour to SA with Younis and Misbah still in the team?

What did we score in the following innings and in the next test match?

 

[Buffet]

My bad. SL drew two matches and lost one in the series in India. IND 1 - 0 SL. But my original point still stands. They still pushed India to the limits and yet this same Indian Team beat SA. Hence, that series should hold no parameter for judgement.

I don't believe in circular logic as well and I see all series independently, But I am not sure if Sl really pushed Indians to the limits.

Sl lost a match by Inning and 200+ runs.

In one drawn test, many overs were lost due to rain. SL was chasing 230-240 runs to win and they were 75/7. Fading light and rain was the only thing saved SL from a sure loss.


Another drawn test was a good effort by SL team, but SL was never in dominating position after Indians put 536/7d & 246/5d

I don't see as SL pushing Indians to the limit here. Having said that, I don't think that one series result can be extrapolated for another series. Just because SL beat Pakistan , it hardly means that Pakistan will perform less than SL in other places. Cricket doesn't work like that.

 

[akki]

Well, with our recent record of toughing it out on tough pitches and conditions and factoring Pakistan's tendency to destroy teams when they have nothing to lose, I would say that we would have a decent chance of beating them. I mean, you just have to bowl the bowl in the right areas and you get wickets on that pitch. Also, for those mentioning the SL whitewash of Pakistan just goes to show that they have so little to justify bashing Pakistan, that they actually have to resort to mentioning a series where most players were not only new to their roles but also new to the team. Also, didn't this same SL team draw a series against this almost exact settled Indian team in India. But, India still beat SA so that argument is quite irrelelvant. I don't consider looking too much into one series or anything but if we want to pull up recent perfromances then why don't we bring up the series that Pakistan squared against England in England, which was the same team that beat South Africa in South Africa earlier that year. I believe we have a good chance if we play with the right attitude and anyone not suffering from inferiority complex should clearly see that.

We just beat sri Lanka in sri Lanka by 3-0 whitewash and sri Lanka after a month lost a test by an innings and 200 runs and another test rain saved them when they visited india. How did they pushed India ???? I mea where do people come from.
am I too much intelligent or I am in the wrong place...

 

[OmarKhan99]

I don't believe in circular logic as well and I see all series independently, But I am not sure if Sl really pushed Indians to the limits.

Sl lost a match by Inning and 200+ runs.

In one drawn test, many overs were lost due to rain. SL was chasing 230-240 runs to win and they were 75/7. Fading light and rain was the only thing saved SL from a sure loss.


Another drawn test was a good effort by SL team, but SL was never in dominating position after Indians put 536/7d & 246/5d

I don't see as SL pushing Indians to the limit here. Having said that, I don't think that one series result can be extrapolated for another series. Just because SL beat Pakistan , it hardly means that Pakistan will perform less than SL in other places. Cricket doesn't work like that.

Scorecards don't do justice to the series. I watched all of it and it was a very very close contest. In the first test match, SL reduced India to 120-odd for 8. The last test match, Sri Lanka were simply superb. Whatever the reason, drawing two matches against India at their home was a great achievment. But again, like I said before we can't just look at these series in a vacuum. India played a settled and their best side, while Pakistan was taking its first steps after the MisYou departure. I'll say it once again, just because of one blip, we can't just ignore all the previous achievements and our ability to compete with the top sides overseas. Pakistan would have a fair chance at this pitch, in my opinion.

 

[akki]

No, you aren't very intelligent. We beat Sri Lanka in SL in our last tour there as well. But that's beside the point. If you were smart enough you would actually read my argument. My reasoning is not about SL vs Pak and India, but rather why one series loss shouldn't undermine Pakistan's ability to compete.

But you said sri lanka competed well in india na ???Why dnt you being an intelligent guy should first hope that pakistan start winning series in uae first ?? Pakistan might think that they hav very good record in UAE especially before younis and misbah retirement. But i dnt think so. The home team who only cud buy a draw series against new zealand and south africa cannot be say dominating even at home.
Just beating australia and england doesnt prove that much.

 

[OmarKhan99]

But you said sri lanka competed well in india na ???Why dnt you being an intelligent guy should first hope that pakistan start winning series in uae first ?? Pakistan might think that they hav very good record in UAE especially before younis and misbah retirement. But i dnt think so. The home team who only cud buy a draw series against new zealand and south africa cannot be say dominating even at home.
Just beating australia and england doesnt prove that much.

Yes, because remaining undefeated in Test Series for nearly a decade at Make Shift Home Grounds despite after losing integral players to politics and fixing is not much of an achievement... If you want to go back into the past, I hope you can recall what England did to India in India in 2012.

By the way, I am not sure how and why my point has devolved into such a meaningless comaprison...

 

[khurram39]

May struggle in batting but bowling is still too good comparing with india.

 

[Napa]

By the way, I am not sure how and why my point has devolved into such a meaningless comaprison...

Probably because you started out by saying "Also, didn't this same SL team draw a series against this almost exact settled Indian team in India" and would not let go when presented with evidence to the contrary.

 

[Abdullah]

Putting a target for 240 will be a bit too much for Pakistani batting line up. One of the most gutsy performance in recent years made it possible to get to 240 lead.

U need luck also. India could have been rolled for 120 on another day in that first innings and it's game over.
Was a gutsy 2nd innings performance nonetheless

 

[OmarKhan99]

Probably because you started out by saying "Also, didn't this same SL team draw a series against this almost exact settled Indian team in India" and would not let go when presented with evidence to the contrary.

Dude... I am quite surprised at how some actually manage to miss the whole point. If you had watched the IndvsSL series and were honest about it, you would know it was a very close series. Being 290 odd for 5 chasing 400 odd and eventually drawing a test is not a one-sided affair, especially when it is against the Best XI India could field. Reducing a team to 120 odd for 8 on the first day of a test and getting a hefty lead of more than 100 is not dominating phases of the game? Look I could go on, but that is not even remotely related to the point I was making. If you really want to argue, argue with the point not for the sake of it.

 

[Amjid Javed]

On a track like this pakistan would struggle to make 100 in either inns with the bat.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Point noted. Would you agree that SA were lucky not having to bat in 4th innings in first two tests?

Yes they were but i am not sure if India would have been able to capitalize on that advantage in an alive series. As record suggests India are among the worst touring test sides currently and the worst ever among major test nations.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Pakistan wouldn't even post 50 in both innings..... Sarfraz would probably send amir and Hassan to bat ahead of him and then try to get himself a not out )

 

[DeadBall]

We have a somewhat ok opener followed by two sitting ducks, a somewhat competent albeit untested Haris, followed by good for flashy 20-30s Kaptaan and scores once in 8 innings in a losing cause to secure his spot Mr technique followed by the tail. Yeah this team will beat SA black and blue.

 

[ManFan]

We have a somewhat ok opener followed by two sitting ducks, a somewhat competent albeit untested Haris, followed by good for flashy 20-30s Kaptaan and scores once in 8 innings in a losing cause to secure his spot Mr technique followed by the tail. Yeah this team will beat SA black and blue.

Anything less than 3-0 will be surprising. But what team?

 

[shane]

These questions always seem like veiled attempts to try and get people to say Pakistan are better than India. But they are not. And no, they would not have lasted 2 days on that pitch.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

My bad. SL drew two matches and lost one in the series in India. IND 1 - 0 SL. But my original point still stands. They still pushed India to the limits and yet this same Indian Team beat SA. Hence, that series should hold no parameter for judgement.

They were getting thrashed in the first test but lots of time was lost to rain and bad light. India were hardly pushed to the limits lol.

 

[OmarKhan99]

They were getting thrashed in the first test but lots of time was lost to rain and bad light. India were hardly pushed to the limits lol.

Yeah you're right. What did the scorecard read by day 3 of the test match?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Yeah you're right. What did the scorecard read by day 3 of the test match?

Yeah because that is so relevant? We thrashed them 3-0 away as well. Even in the final test, we declared twice. SL could not take 20 wickets in any of the matches lol. They did that only in the UAE.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Yeah because that is so relevant? We thrashed them 3-0 away as well. Even in the final test, we declared twice. SL could not take 20 wickets in any of the matches lol. They did that only in the UAE.

Look, let me elaborate a bit more. My case isn't about SL vs Pak and India. Not even remotely close. I was merely giving some evidence to the fact that in a given series any team, weak or strong (on paper), can give you a run for your money if they play to their best potential. My argument is quite simple. Just because a transitioning Pakistan Team lost to SL in one series, doesn't warrant them being written off of the proposed question of this thread. Pakistan has faced much tougher oppositions than SL in recent years and has combatted really well in foreign conditions. Also, you have to remember that you can't look at these series with both your eyes fixated on one sole one. Ups and downs are a part of cricket and it is essential you factor that in when discussing the possibility of a team's chances in different conditions and against a different opposition.

That being said, let me just answer your question. It's quite infuriating to see that you have completely missed the argument. I never said that was relevant. It was merely a response to your claim of India controlling the game from the get-go. I said that SL were in the game for much of the series and lost only in the clutch moments. SL were in complete control for 65% of the first game in the first test match and gave it away in the last 1.5 days. They still ended with a draw. In the last game, SL were also pushing India, playing out the day and being 299/5 chasing 410. That game also ended with a draw. Unless you have a different definition for a competitive 3 match series that ended with the scoreline of Ind 1 - 0 Srilanka, you should clearly see what I meant by "pushing India". Also, can you please stop bringing up that India beat SL in SL? So did we on our last tour there. But that's irrelevant because my entire point is that if we just focus on one series and ignore all other evidences then even the strongest of teams will be written off since they have also failed from time to time. You bringing up another series for justification of your point is a testimony to the fact that we can't just study one series and decide a team's ability.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Look, let me elaborate a bit more. My case isn't about SL vs Pak and India. Not even remotely close. I was merely giving some evidence to the fact that in a given series any team, weak or strong (on paper), can give you a run for your money if they play to their best potential. My argument is quite simple. Just because a transitioning Pakistan Team lost to SL in one series, doesn't warrant them being written off of the proposed question of this thread. Pakistan has faced much tougher oppositions than SL in recent years and has combatted really well in foreign conditions. Also, you have to remember that you can't look at these series with both your eyes fixated on one sole one. Ups and downs are a part of cricket and it is essential you factor that in when discussing the possibility of a team's chances in different conditions and against a different opposition.

That being said, let me just answer your question. It's quite infuriating to see that you have completely missed the argument. I never said that was relevant. It was merely a response to your claim of India controlling the game from the get-go. I said that SL were in the game for much of the series and lost only in the clutch moments. SL were in complete control for 65% of the first game in the first test match and gave it away in the last 1.5 days. They still ended with a draw. In the last game, SL were also pushing India, playing out the day and being 299/5 chasing 410. That game also ended with a draw. Unless you have a different definition for a competitive 3 match series that ended with the scoreline of Ind 1 - 0 Srilanka, you should clearly see what I meant by "pushing India". Also, can you please stop bringing up that India beat SL in SL? So did we on our last tour there. But that's irrelevant because my entire point is that if we just focus on one series and ignore all other evidences then even the strongest of teams will be written off since they have also failed from time to time. You bringing up another series for justification of your point is a testimony to the fact that we can't just study one series and decide a team's ability.

Fair.

 

[hur rizvi]

No we arent our batters would be shambolic and bowlers will just look good at bowling easy "Leave me" line. Muhammad Amir will bowl most maidens ever bowled without picking up wickets

 

[Gubol123]

They can defend 240 but their batsman won't put up that many on the scorecard