Is the PCB's ineptness in terms of planning a blessing in disguise?

[ExpressPacer]

As is famous on all of PP, the PCB is one of the worst cricket boards and is especially targeted for their inability to negotiate a good FTP with a lot of Test matches (Home & Away). Pakistan cricket fans are more often than not in disgust for not being able to see their favorite superstars in action often enough.

However, is this sparsity of cricket a blessing in disguise for Pakistan? The world's best bowlers in Rabada and Starc have recently found themselves injured, diminishing hopes of 100% full fitness for the World Cup 2019. The likes of Steyn, Cummins, Shami and Boult have already taken blows from the rigors of continuous cricket.

Needless to say, this makes it quite clear that Pakistan young guns in Amir (sort of..), Hasan Ali, Usman Khan and Junaid/Shaheen will only benefit from having full fitness and might for the approaching tournaments (Asia Cup, WC '19, T20 WC) ahead - having already proven themselves (and my logic) correct by winning the CT.

Maybe Sethi Sahab the GREAT had been planning this all along in order to ensure the zenith of our performances for the all important games and we were foolishly calling out the PCB for its supposed "ineptness".

 

[Omer2002]

Not sure if there any positives ..when is the Pakistan Cup starting or do the players have no competetive cricket before they fly to the UK

 

[barah_admi]

I dunno if Steyn or SA in general is a good comparison, considering they themselves have lacked the amount of test cricket Aus, Eng and India have have had. Plus in the latest FTP they will only play 2 more tests than Pak anyway. On top of that Steyn's workload as a test cricketer has been helped by very limited ODI matches, so his injuries are less workload based but more the fact that he has always been fragile, like Tait and Cummins.

 

[UN talkz]

Not sure if there any positives ..when is the Pakistan Cup starting or do the players have no competetive cricket before they fly to the UK

They will play 2 practice matches in England before Ireland Test Match and then will play another practice match before facing England for 2 Test matches.
That is enough imo

 

[Hasan123]

No . It's an embarrassment.

 

[jadaja]

People here are making too much about CT win, to me it was very flukey win and results in NZ proved it.yes they won CT good for them but they are a horrible team still in all formats.

 

[Usman Chadda]

People here are making too much about CT win, to me it was very flukey win and results in NZ proved it.yes they won CT good for them but they are a horrible team still in all formats.

These comments would have been acceptable had it not been India thrashed in the final. A win by 180 runs can never be a fluke.

 

[emranabbas]

People here are making too much about CT win, to me it was very flukey win and results in NZ proved it.yes they won CT good for them but they are a horrible team still in all formats.

Just like how World Cup 2011 was a fluke?
You struggled in West Indies and I think you even got white washed by England and lost to Australia in the same year ????

 

[ExpressPacer]

No . It's an embarrassment.

An embarrassment that results in our fast bowlers being fit? Our batsmen were never good to begin with, and if we start losing out on our bowlers as well, then seems to be all is lost.

 

[ExpressPacer]

People here are making too much about CT win, to me it was very flukey win and results in NZ proved it.yes they won CT good for them but they are a horrible team still in all formats.

How has India fared in NZ? England? Australia?

Mostly every country is unbeatable in home conditions these days. India toured BD with their A team and lost the series.

Winning a series can be a fluke but winning a tournament is never a fluke.

 

[Mamoon]

Just like how World Cup 2011 was a fluke?
You struggled in West Indies and I think you even got white washed by England and lost to Australia in the same year ????

The 2011 World Cup was not a fluke because that Indian team was the best team in those conditions. They were considered as heavy favorites before a ball was bowled, and it was widely expected that they would go all the way.

Yes they struggled in West Indies a month later, but they had rested their key players. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni, Yuvraj and Zaheer etc. were not part of the squad. They failed in England and Australia, but they were not an all-conditions team. Had the World Cup been in England or Australia, they probably would not have won.

Our Champions Trophy triumph ranks alongside India’s 1983 World Cup win and West Indies’ 2004 Champions Trophy win as the biggest flukes in ICC tournament history. There is no point in denying it - yes we played great cricket, but everything fell in place for us. Every 50-50 situation went in our favor and we had our fair share of luck.

 

[Mamoon]

An embarrassment that results in our fast bowlers being fit? Our batsmen were never good to begin with, and if we start losing out on our bowlers as well, then seems to be all is lost.

It is of no use as long as our players play in every random league. PCB needs to regulate the involvement of our players in foreign leagues and talks are underway already. Whether this will have an affect on the PSL or not remains to be seen, but the likes of Hasan, Amir etc. have no business playing T10 leagues etc.

 

[ExpressPacer]

It is of no use as long as our players play in every random league. PCB needs to regulate the involvement of our players in foreign leagues and talks are underway already. Whether this will have an affect on the PSL or not remains to be seen, but the likes of Hasan, Amir etc. have no business playing T10 leagues etc.

Of course, but I doubt that playing in T20 leagues is arduous enough to have an impact on our bowlers. Amir and Hasan would have had to bowl a total of 2 over per match in the T10 league. That's something even the likes of Shoaib Akhtar can manage without hampering his health.

 

[ExpressPacer]

The 2011 World Cup was not a fluke because that Indian team was the best team in those conditions. They were considered as heavy favorites before a ball was bowled, and it was widely expected that they would go all the way.

Yes they struggled in West Indies a month later, but they had rested their key players. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni, Yuvraj and Zaheer etc. were not part of the squad. They failed in England and Australia, but they were not an all-conditions team. Had the World Cup been in England or Australia, they probably would not have won.

Our Champions Trophy triumph ranks alongside India’s 1983 World Cup win and West Indies’ 2004 Champions Trophy win as the biggest flukes in ICC tournament history. There is no point in denying it - yes we played great cricket, but everything fell in place for us. Every 50-50 situation went in our favor and we had our fair share of luck.

I think this is the first time a fluke scenario you've put forth that actually makes sense. One question though, would you still consider the CT '17 a fluke if Pakistan manage to reach the Semis of the WC? If not, the Final?

 

[Mamoon]

I think this is the first time a fluke scenario you've put forth that actually makes sense. One question though, would you still consider the CT '17 a fluke if Pakistan manage to reach the Semis of the WC? If not, the Final?

Pakistan had the chance to put the fluke claims to rest in New Zealand, but the way they got blanked was further proof of the fact that the Champions Trophy was a flash in the pan.

The format of the next World Cup is pretty damning for a team like Pakistan. If we still manage to make it to the semifinals, it will indeed show the progress that the team has made. England and India are two certainties for the semifinal spots, but Australia, South Africa and New Zealand will be in danger of missing out.

 

[Mamoon]

Of course, but I doubt that playing in T20 leagues is arduous enough to have an impact on our bowlers. Amir and Hasan would have had to bowl a total of 2 over per match in the T10 league. That's something even the likes of Shoaib Akhtar can manage without hampering his health.

It is about the possibility of getting injured. Granted that it is only two overs, but PCB needs to ensure that our bowlers do not play such pointless tournaments.

 

[babajee]

Pakistan had the chance to put the fluke claims to rest in New Zealand, but the way they got blanked was further proof of the fact that the Champions Trophy was a flash in the pan.

The format of the next World Cup is pretty damning for a team like Pakistan. If we still manage to make it to the semifinals, it will indeed show the progress that the team has made. England and India are two certainties for the semifinal spots, but Australia, South Africa and New Zealand will be in danger of missing out.

The only reason we lost 5-0 was because Babar had a shocker. I think we had to chase ~250 two/three times which is well within his capabilities.

If he scored his usual “selfish” runs we wouldn’t have gotten blanked.

 

[Mamoon]

The only reason we lost 5-0 was because Babar had a shocker. I think we had to chase ~250 two/three times which is well within his capabilities.

If he scored his usual “selfish” runs we wouldn’t have gotten blanked.

The bowling was nothing to write home about either. It was rubbish in the first two ODIs, and completely bolted under pressure in the fourth ODI, conceding a winning position.

Anyway, these are all excuses. Babar had a shocker, bowling failed, this happened, that happened etc. Bottom line is Pakistan is not good enough to beat the top sides barring a one-off game every now and then.

 

[babajee]

The bowling was nothing to write home about either. It was rubbish in the first two ODIs, and completely bolted under pressure in the fourth ODI, conceding a winning position.

Anyway, these are all excuses. Babar had a shocker, bowling failed, this happened, that happened etc. Bottom line is Pakistan is not good enough to beat the top sides barring a one-off game every now and then.

Yeah it’s not with losers like Azhar, Hafeez and Malik. Rumman isn’t an ODI bowler either.

What’s gonna happen with 7 men on the field and your best bowler (Hasan) and batsman (Babar) being off colour?

Funny how you made excuses for India not winning the test series vs SA but won’t accept these entirely plausible reasons for Pakistan failing in NZ.

 

[Khan12]

Yeah it’s not with losers like Azhar, Hafeez and Malik. Rumman isn’t an ODI bowler either.

What’s gonna happen with 7 men on the field and your best bowler (Hasan) and batsman (Babar) being off colour?

Funny how you made excuses for India not winning the test series vs SA but won’t accept these entirely plausible reasons for Pakistan failing in NZ.

Pakistani players can't be out of form while Indians can be. If it was kholi he would have been talking about that run out of babar and the shocking decision he received in the first odi.

 

[Khan12]

The 2011 World Cup was not a fluke because that Indian team was the best team in those conditions. They were considered as heavy favorites before a ball was bowled, and it was widely expected that they would go all the way.

Yes they struggled in West Indies a month later, but they had rested their key players. Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dhoni, Yuvraj and Zaheer etc. were not part of the squad. They failed in England and Australia, but they were not an all-conditions team. Had the World Cup been in England or Australia, they probably would not have won.

Our Champions Trophy triumph ranks alongside India’s 1983 World Cup win and West Indies’ 2004 Champions Trophy win as the biggest flukes in ICC tournament history. There is no point in denying it - yes we played great cricket, but everything fell in place for us. Every 50-50 situation went in our favor and we had our fair share of luck.

Flukes are never a trashing we handed out to them.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah it’s not with losers like Azhar, Hafeez and Malik. Rumman isn’t an ODI bowler either.

What’s gonna happen with 7 men on the field and your best bowler (Hasan) and batsman (Babar) being off colour?

Funny how you made excuses for India not winning the test series vs SA but won’t accept these entirely plausible reasons for Pakistan failing in NZ.

Some of the youngsters of today will be the losers and TTFs of tomorrow. Pakistan will not shoot up the rankings just because you got rid of Azhar, Hafeez and Malik.

Pakistan lost in New Zealand because they were thoroughly outplayed in all departments, and the gulf in class between the teams on paper was quite evident.

On the other hand, India played very good cricket and the outcome of the series could have been different had the won two tosses. It was not a coincidence that teams that batted second got thumped in all three Tests. India is the best team in the world at the moment across all formats.

Obviously they are not invincible, but they will beat most teams in most conditions in all formats. They are levels above us, and I am not interested in the farce T20I ranking.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistani players can't be out of form while Indians can be. If it was kholi he would have been talking about that run out of babar and the shocking decision he received in the first odi.

Indeed, it is funny how our players always get out form against quality teams. The fact that in the last two years, they have lost 17 out of the 21 ODIs that they have played against England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand is certainly due to loss of form.

 

[Mamoon]

Flukes are never a trashing we handed out to them.

In my view, margin of victory does not dictate whether a win was a fluke or not. If it did, I would not have called India's win over West Indies in the 1983 World Cup Final a fluke.

 

[babajee]

Some of the youngsters of today will be the losers and TTFs of tomorrow. Pakistan will not shoot up the rankings just because you got rid of Azhar, Hafeez and Malik.

Pakistan lost in New Zealand because they were thoroughly outplayed in all departments, and the gulf in class between the teams on paper was quite evident.

On the other hand, India played very good cricket and the outcome of the series could have been different had the won two tosses. It was not a coincidence that teams that batted second got thumped in all three Tests. India is the best team in the world at the moment across all formats.

Obviously they are not invincible, but they will beat most teams in most conditions in all formats. They are levels above us, and I am not interested in the farce T20I ranking.

I don’t care if they are the TTFs of tomorrow - it doesn’t take much to do better than innings of 6(16) by Azhar and 3(10) by Hafeez etc.

NZ’s attack is decent but nothing world beating. Boult is world class but the rest are average. Batsmen like Sahibzada, Talat etc could have done a better job.

Small changes in a team can have a big impact.

 

[Mamoon]

I don’t care if they are the TTFs of tomorrow - it doesn’t take much to do better than innings of 6(16) by Azhar and 3(10) by Hafeez etc.

NZ’s attack is decent but nothing world beating. Boult is world class but the rest are average. Batsmen like Sahibzada, Talat etc could have done a better job.

Small changes in a team can have a big impact.

New Zealand conditions are not easy for batting. Sahibzada is very raw and would have failed badly. Talat might have scored a few runs, but not enough to change the outcome of the series.

 

[Khan12]

Indeed, it is funny how our players always get out form against quality teams. The fact that in the last two years, they have lost 17 out of the 21 ODIs that they have played against England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand is certainly due to loss of form.

It's also funny how Babar out of form against a poor opponent like Australia containing poor bowlers such as starc, Hazelwood, Cummins avegared over 50 and Hasan averaged mid 20s I believe.

 

[babajee]

New Zealand conditions are not easy for batting. Sahibzada is very raw and would have failed badly. Talat might have scored a few runs, but not enough to change the outcome of the series.

Not easy for batting? Fakhar, Haris, Shadab, Hasan scored 50s... even Hafeez scored an 80 when the pressure was off. Funny how he failed in the run chases though.

Sahibzada could have done alright there as he is a better backfoot player than front foot. But that isn’t the point.

If Babar scored some runs, he would definitely have changed the outcome of the series. And no I don’t believe this Babar against top teams stuff - he has scored runs against a much better attack in Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins even if you say they were selfish.

 

[Mamoon]

Not easy for batting? Fakhar, Haris, Shadab, Hasan scored 50s... even Hafeez scored an 80 when the pressure was off. Funny how he failed in the run chases though.

Sahibzada could have done alright there as he is a better backfoot player than front foot. But that isn’t the point.

If Babar scored some runs, he would definitely have changed the outcome of the series. And no I don’t believe this Babar against top teams stuff - he has scored runs against a much better attack in Starc, Hazelwood, Cummins even if you say they were selfish.

Shadab and Hasan did not face the new ball. Hafeez batted at number four and that is why he scored runs. He would have been a sitting duck against the new ball.

Sahibzada would have most likely failed in that series. As far as Babar is concerned, I do not think he is a minnow basher. He is capable of scoring against quality bowlers, but it is not just about Babar. If he does not fail against Australia, England, South Africa etc., someone else will.

As a collective unit, we are not good enough.

 

[Mamoon]

It's also funny how Babar out of form against a poor opponent like Australia containing poor bowlers such as starc, Hazelwood, Cummins avegared over 50 and Hasan averaged mid 20s I believe.

Is it about Babar only? He might score runs, but what about the rest? The team is not good enough to beat Australia, India, England, South Africa and New Zealand collectively, barring 1-2 matches.

 

[babajee]

Shadab and Hasan did not face the new ball. Hafeez batted at number four and that is why he scored runs. He would have been a sitting duck against the new ball.

Sahibzada would have most likely failed in that series. As far as Babar is concerned, I do not think he is a minnow basher. He is capable of scoring against quality bowlers, but it is not just about Babar. If he does not fail against Australia, England, South Africa etc., someone else will.

As a collective unit, we are not good enough.

Fakhar, Babar, Haris, Talat and Sarfraz are good enough batsmen. I know you don’t like Sarfraz but when he bats at 4 he is an asset and has scored against top teams.

If Fakhar didn’t play in that series then you would have said that he would probably have failed as well.

The bottom line is that we have been winning matches because of youngsters and new players into the team. If we get rid of these seniors we can be well on the way to becoming a top team. If they become the TTFs of the future like you say they will, then they can be dropped and new guys can be brought in. No need to be so pessimistic.

 

[Mamoon]

Fakhar, Babar, Haris, Talat and Sarfraz are good enough batsmen. I know you don’t like Sarfraz but when he bats at 4 he is an asset and has scored against top teams.

If Fakhar didn’t play in that series then you would have said that he would probably have failed as well.

The bottom line is that we have been winning matches because of youngsters and new players into the team. If we get rid of these seniors we can be well on the way to becoming a top team. If they become the TTFs of the future like you say they will, then they can be dropped and new guys can be brought in. No need to be so pessimistic.

We have been winning matches against weak opposition. The only time we played a quality team in the last few months, we got ripped apart. It is not about pessimism or optimism, it is a fact. Unless we show that we can win series against the top teams, I have no reason to be excited.

 

[Khan12]

Is it about Babar only? He might score runs, but what about the rest? The team is not good enough to beat Australia, India, England, South Africa and New Zealand collectively, barring 1-2 matches.

We all know Azhar, hafeez,Malik are always rubbish

 

[Mamoon]

We all know Azhar, hafeez,Malik are always rubbish

And the players who are going to replace them will not be legends. These three are not the last mediocre players that Pakistan will produce.

 

[babajee]

We have been winning matches against weak opposition. The only time we played a quality team in the last few months, we got ripped apart. It is not about pessimism or optimism, it is a fact. Unless we show that we can win series against the top teams, I have no reason to be excited.

And there are perfectly valid reasons why we got ripped apart.

Individual performances have been encouraging enough from the likes of Hasan, Shadab, Fakhar.

 

[babajee]

And the players who are going to replace them will not be legends. These three are not the last mediocre players that Pakistan will produce.

You don’t need to be a world beater to be better than these guys. Mediocre players like Umar and Kamran Akmal would have been better than them in NZ.

 

[Khan12]

And the players who are going to replace them will not be legends. These three are not the last mediocre players that Pakistan will produce.

I didn't say the ones replacing them will be legands but they can't be worse then them. Every country produces medicore players and will do so including your beloved India.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Pakistan may not be a world beating team at the moment, but at least the wind is blowing in the right direction.

Getting rid of TTF's will help for sure.

 

[babajee]

Pakistan may not be a world beating team at the moment, but at least the wind is blowing in the right direction.

Getting rid of TTF's will help for sure.

This. However we can be world beaters on our day.

 

[jadaja]

How has India fared in NZ? England? Australia?

Mostly every country is unbeatable in home conditions these days. India toured BD with their A team and lost the series.

Winning a series can be a fluke but winning a tournament is never a fluke.

India has fared the best of all countries everywhere recently in almost all formats and that is the reason why they are no1.

Pakistan's win was flukey because I just don't see a talented team,they won two matches and caught England and India on bad days.

India won Odi series in England when they last played there, India in 2013 and Indian team now are very different.

Indian 1983 cup was flukey win because they never were that talented as 1983 WI team which I still consider the best team to have ever played this game.

If the 1983 finals is played 100 times WI would win 98 times.

I am not taking credit away from Pakistan team for winning CT but that is going to harm Pakistan more than help in long run , same like CT 2013 when England reached finals with putrid team only to be exposed in world cup 2015.

See now England's odi team is the best team in the world .

 

[the Great Khan]

India has fared the best of all countries everywhere recently in almost all formats and that is the reason why they are no1.

Pakistan's win was flukey because I just don't see a talented team,they won two matches and caught England and India on bad days.

India won Odi series in England when they last played there, India in 2013 and Indian team now are very different.

Indian 1983 cup was flukey win because they never were that talented as 1983 WI team which I still consider the best team to have ever played this game.

If the 1983 finals is played 100 times WI would win 98 times.

I am not taking credit away from Pakistan team for winning CT but that is going to harm Pakistan more than help in long run , same like CT 2013 when England reached finals with putrid team only to be exposed in world cup 2015.

See now England's odi team is the best team in the world .

he says after doing the very same thing. The CT win was not flukey anymore than any other team winning a tournament. Tournament cricket is a totally different beast and Pakistans record in tournament cricket is very good. I mean just look at our finals record vs India. You have to win four or five matches in a row in a tournament against different teams and that always helps pakistan. Bilaterals are a different story.

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
I would had agreed that 1983 WC win was a fluke only if we hadn't beaten Windies twice in that same tournament.

If we beat them 2 out of 3 times not sure how it was a fluke.

Also remember we won world championship of cricket in 1985 in Australia beating Pak in the final, noway was 1983 a fluke if we could beat top teams again two.years later.

 

[Kashmirilion]

Fluke happens in one or two games but to call an entire tournament win a fluke is preposterous. Haters will hate potatoes will potate