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Is the South Africa series India's biggest ever overseas ODI series win?

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Harsh Thakor

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I salute India for creating history by winning their first international One day series on South African soil.They came within touching distance in 2011 but were just pipped at the post.Above all it beat a team ranked so highly.

In a series excluding round robin's this was arguably India's best ever performance overseas.Other great series wins were in 1990 in England and 2004 in Pakistan .Including Round Robin's it would still rank very high just belwo India's win in Sharjah in 1998 and in Australia in 2007-08.

Considering 3 games were won in a row by a most convincing margin and then a fourth one after a loss I would place this triumph at the top.
 
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Proactive_ said:
Natwest Series 2002 and Australia CB series 2008 are much more significant.
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Agree with you, those 2 cups were rated more than this series. But overall this series will give lot of confidence to our team for upcoming away tours to excel !
 
2008 CB series.That aussie team had ponting,lee,hayden,symonds,gilchrist,clarke,watson,johsnon etc.
 
austerlitz said:
2008 CB series.That aussie team had ponting,lee,hayden,symonds,gilchrist,clarke,watson,johsnon etc.
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And in best of 3 finals it was 2 nil which in those days beating Australia in consecutive matches was rare
 
I think winning the Champions trophy in 2013 was very impressive
 
One of the biggest achievements, not the biggest ever. But yes, thrashing the no1 team in their own den isn't a matter of joke either.
 
The time is ripe to have a 5 match series with Pakistan and end all debate once and for all. :srini
 
Nope. 2008 cb series win was a memorable one. India was up against Brett Lee at his very best form in his career.
 
It’s a good achievement let’s hooe it’s the start of many such accomplishments in coming years. Anyone putting down this achievement is being a hater.
 
RainMan_ said:
Rabada and tahir r two of the world's best bowlers in limited overs cricket.
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Rabada hasn't reached the stature of Brett Lee yet. He was a gun limited overs bowlers. ER, SR, Average is cut above for Lee. Also He terrorized every line up in the 2003 world cup so much so India opted to field first instead of bat first in the 2003 final.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
That was Dhoni/Yuvi series. Man he just bludgeoned every bowler.
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I am talking about India's tour to Pakistan after the Australian series in 2003-04. Dravid was the keeper that time. That was India's first series win in Pakistan.
 
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LastManstanding said:
I am talking about India's tour to Pakistan after the Australian series in 2003-04. Dravid was the keeper that time.
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I barely remember that series lol. Is it that series where Tendulkar bamboozled Moin khan with a leg break? But India had beaten pakistan in Pakistan before in a series. CB series was the first and also Australia were world champions at that time.
 
The CB series in Feb, 2008 was a bigger achievement. Australia was just starting to decline from their unbeatable best.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I barely remember that series lol. Is it that series where Tendulkar bamboozled Moin khan with a leg break? But India had beaten pakistan in Pakistan before in a series. CB series was the first and also Australia were world champions at that time.
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Yup, that was the one, although tendulkar bowled a googly to moin Khan and that happened in one of the test matches which followed the odis.
 
Sane.Cricket.Fan said:
Mark my words. IT'S JUST THE BEGINNING
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Hold your thought. India severely depends on top 3. If they flunk we could go from great to mediocre. India hasn't reached a stage where they can upstage any team from any position. Once top 3 are gone pretty much we are done as we saw in CT final. Also if we run in to a team that plays spin relatively well then also we could face problem as besides spinners only Bumra shows up consistently. There are lot of cracks which few players managed to paper over in this series.
 
For me, NatWest trophy 2002, the ODI leg of the 2006 tour of Pakistan and the CB series win in Australia were just as important as this.
 
I remember 2004 series manily for tests as we won a series in pak for the first time. Also viru/Dravid bear miss record partnership for the first wicket.
 
2004 Pakistan.
Both teams were 2-2 and the anticipation for final game was something I have never witnessed before. My school decided to show us the match on a big screen so you guys can understand the atmosphere. I remember Tendulkar got out cheaply and we were so disappointed that some of us walked out of there to play cricket in the school ground.
Then came Laxman and played a gem of an innings to get India to a decent respectable score. I think it was the same game where Balaji hit a six off Akhtar and in the process broke his bat .
Anyway Irfan Pathak provided India early breakthroughs but with Inzy on the crease , the win seemed a distant possiblity (He was the highest scorer from both sides in that series) . And then I remember he hitting a shot towards long on and it looked like it would go for a six but then appeared Tendulkar out of nowhere and picked a brilliant catch on the boundary to dismiss him. Man I can't even describe the ecstasy and feeling at that time. All the kids were shouting like anything as if India has won a wc and everybody knew that with Inzmam gone the series was in India's Pocket. I started following cricket from 2003 wc but this was the first tournament where my interest in the game reached at peak.
Good times!
PS: Also I remember Mohammed Sami was a huge deal in thode days (having recently picked a hattrick against NZ ) and I used to imitate his bowling action. Even had a similar hairstyle as a 9 year old :))
 
That Pakistani team had some real superstars in it. Maybe it's my nostalgia talking but that team of early 2000s was quite formidable one and winning against them and that too on their home turf was something of a huge achievement at that time. I remember in the first ODI India scored above 300 and in reply Pakistan was in an excellent position and then someone slogged one at the boundary. Mohammed Kaif and Murali Karthik (?) colloided to catch that one in the process but Kaif somehow managed to hold to that one. That was the best catch I had ever seen! And then I remember Pakistan needed 5 off last ball with Moin Khan at crease. And if I'm not wrong Javed Miandad was actually giving him directions from pavilion on how to hit that one out of park lol. Anyway Moin Bhai failed and India clinched the thriller.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I remember 2004 series manily for tests as we won a series in pak for the first time. Also viru/Dravid bear miss record partnership for the first wicket.
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You are confusing the 2004 one with 2006 series. We won in 2004 while it was in 2006 where Sehwag and Dravid missed the word record of highest runs partnership for first wicket which at that time was held by Pankaj Roy and Veenu Mankad.
Think that was Lahore test. I had never seen such a flat road in my life before.
 
It is definitely right up there. I still believe the greatest ODI series triumph for an Asian side remains, by far, the 2-1 triumph by Pakistan in Australia in 2002-03 against arguably the greatest ODI side ever. India's never achieved anything even remotely close to that and it is a fact which should hurt them.
 
Difficult to say because SA have played at 50% strength for half the series and are still missing their main two batsmen. Had they beaten a full strength SA, then definitely.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Difficult to say because SA have played at 50% strength for half the series and are still missing their main two batsmen. Had they beaten a full strength SA, then definitely.
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Faf, yes. But, Klassen has probably played better than Quinton would have played. The fact that SA has averaged 22 with the bat and India has averaged 50 shows how dominant India has been. One of our best wins.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
It is definitely right up there. I still believe the greatest ODI series triumph for an Asian side remains, by far, the 2-1 triumph by Pakistan in Australia in 2002-03 against arguably the greatest ODI side ever. India's never achieved anything even remotely close to that and it is a fact which should hurt them.
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3 match series don't count under 'series' tag. :yk3
 
I would say it's there second biggest overseas win behind the 2008 CB series.
 
TM Riddle said:
You are confusing the 2004 one with 2006 series. We won in 2004 while it was in 2006 where Sehwag and Dravid missed the word record of highest runs partnership for first wicket which at that time was held by Pankaj Roy and Veenu Mankad.
Think that was Lahore test. I had never seen such a flat road in my life before.
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you are right !!
 
Can we say this is a fluke win given how everything's aligned up for India with SA losing half their batting? Also considering the fact SA beat them in India comfortably. [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
 
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India has owned like they own associate teams. How is this a fluke lol India also had less than half the side . Honestly India just needed 4 players to annihilate them.
 
Proactive_ said:
Natwest Series 2002 and Australia CB series 2008 are much more significant.
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Not sure how stocked Australia were in those series but South Africa were pretty much playing their 'B' side for most of these five matches.

No Faf, de Kock, ABD, Steyn, and with a bunch of young players, an inexperienced captain, Amla and Morkel out of form and JP Duminy batting at #3. What team couldn't beat a South African side this weak?
 
jnaveen1980 said:
India has owned like they own associate teams. How is this a fluke lol India also had less than half the side . Honestly India just needed 4 players to annihilate them.
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India played the team they'll play at the WC next year, barring injury and with Raina coming in for Ilyer.

To make this a fair contest, Kohli, Dhawan, Dhoni and Bumrah would have to be excluded.
 
Princejain191 said:
3 match series don't count under 'series' tag. :yk3
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Really? It was called "Aaney do series" and not "Aaney do massacre", if I remember correctly.

However, I'm being too critical. India played well and finally managed to achieve what their neighbors did five years ago. Congratulations.
 
Bilal7 said:
Really? It was called "Aaney do series" and not "Aaney do massacre", if I remember correctly.

However, I'm being too critical. India played well and finally managed to achieve what their neighbors did five years ago. Congratulations.
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if I am not wrong didn't you guy's played South Africa twice or thrice that year and that too in South Africa.
 
Bubby said:
if I am not wrong didn't you guy's played South Africa twice or thrice that year and that too in South Africa.
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Yeah, we had two series in South Africa in the 2013 season. A close 3-2 loss and a comfortable 2-1 win against a fully stacked and in-form Proteas team, in which they only won the dead rubber. Also crushed India in India. That was a very memorable year for our ODI team, eclipsed only by 2017 over the last decade.
 
Faf was there for the first game, they lost that. De Kock played the first 2 games, they lost that too. ABD played 2 games and they won one and lose the other. Not sure what you are talking about. Steyn hardly plays ODIs anymore, so we cannot call his absence as a handicap for the proteas. Rabada, Morkel, Morris and Tahir are their ODI bowlers. They played all of them in the series. SA batting was just out of form and it would have been a relief for De Kock to actually take a break from this horrendous series he was having. There was only one game in which all 3 of them were not playing.
 
giri26 said:
Faf was there for the first game, they lost that. De Kock played the first 2 games, they lost that too. ABD played 2 games and they won one and lose the other. Not sure what you are talking about. Steyn hardly plays ODIs anymore, so we cannot call his absence as a handicap for the proteas. Rabada, Morkel, Morris and Tahir are their ODI bowlers. They played all of them in the series. SA batting was just out of form and it would have been a relief for De Kock to actually take a break from this horrendous series he was having. There was only one game in which all 3 of them were not playing.
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Now imagine if Kohli was missing for the first three games, Dhawan got injured after the first two games and one of Rahane/Rohit gets injured after the first, after scoring a century and being the only batsman to do so. How many of these games would India have won if the Saffers had all three of Faf, de Kock and de Villiers for the three games?

Let's not even talk about form. Even missing Dhoni through injury will have a big psychological effect on the Indian team, even if he hasn't been contributing to many wins recently.
 
Bilal7 said:
Now imagine if Kohli was missing for the first three games, Dhawan got injured after the first two games and one of Rahane/Rohit gets injured after the first, after scoring a century and being the only batsman to do so. How many of these games would India have won if the Saffers had all three of Faf, de Kock and de Villiers for the three games?

Let's not even talk about form. Even missing Dhoni through injury will have a big psychological effect on the Indian team, even if he hasn't been contributing to many wins recently.
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These things happen for all the teams. Thats what cricket is about. Injuries will happen. If you start discrediting wins based on who was available in the opposition, you will have very less teams with credible series wins. Lots of sides miss one or two players in a series or lose them during a series. This is a professional sport, teams are supposed to adapt to changes, it is not India's problem that SA players got injured or went out of form. There are lots of ifs and buts in your statement. We are not even sure if them playing even would have made any difference. ABD did not set the world alight in the 2 games he played. De Kock struggled to get the ball off the square in the two games he played. Only Faf scored a hundred in the first game and even that was not enough to help SA. India would have still won all three games, probably SA would have scored more runs but still would have lost. Their bowlers were not able to stem the runs from the Indian top order and India easily chased 270 in the first game with overs to spare.

India played the cards they were dealt with and won, thats about it. Anything else is an excuse.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Can we say this is a fluke win given how everything's aligned up for India with SA losing half their batting? Also considering the fact SA beat them in India comfortably. [MENTION=137148]Rayyman[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
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Nope

India are a good ODI side and I think would have won even with a full strength SA side of today

SA side of few years ago would have won though
 
Bilal7 said:
Yeah, we had two series in South Africa in the 2013 season. A close 3-2 loss and a comfortable 2-1 win against a fully stacked and in-form Proteas team, in which they only won the dead rubber. Also crushed India in India. That was a very memorable year for our ODI team, eclipsed only by 2017 over the last decade.
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not to mention India played SA in SA like a week after that series and got absolutely demolished
 
giri26 said:
These things happen for all the teams. Thats what cricket is about. Injuries will happen. If you start discrediting wins based on who was available in the opposition, you will have very less teams with credible series wins. Lots of sides miss one or two players in a series or lose them during a series. This is a professional sport, teams are supposed to adapt to changes, it is not India's problem that SA players got injured or went out of form. There are lots of ifs and buts in your statement. We are not even sure if them playing even would have made any difference. ABD did not set the world alight in the 2 games he played. De Kock struggled to get the ball off the square in the two games he played. Only Faf scored a hundred in the first game and even that was not enough to help SA. India would have still won all three games, probably SA would have scored more runs but still would have lost. Their bowlers were not able to stem the runs from the Indian top order and India easily chased 270 in the first game with overs to spare.

India played the cards they were dealt with and won, thats about it. Anything else is an excuse.
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India won the series, no one can take that away. However, was this your best ever ODI series win? Not really. And a big part of that was that the opposition were barely at 50% of their strength.

I would take a series win in Australia any day of the week, even if Smith, Warner and Maxwell were not playing. However, would it mean a lot more if Pakistan won against a full strength Aussie side? Of course.
 
Slog said:
Nope

India are a good ODI side and I think would have won even with a full strength SA side of today

SA side of few years ago would have won though
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Actually that's not true atleast in bilaterals in South Africa. Faf and AB would have complemented each other well together and India has huge issues with their middle order. It was top3 or all end for them.
 
I doint think ABDV and Faf together would have made much difference.

Its not like there have been close matches, India have rolled over SA as if they are a minnow. If not for rain, its very likely that the series would have been a complete whitewash.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yeah, we had two series in South Africa in the 2013 season. A close 3-2 loss and a comfortable 2-1 win against a fully stacked and in-form Proteas team, in which they only won the dead rubber. Also crushed India in India. That was a very memorable year for our ODI team, eclipsed only by 2017 over the last decade.
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Yep, very comfortable 2-1 win. Margins of 23 runs and 1 run. Absolute demolition. We had an average year though. Just a champions trophy win. I guess we have different standards. We don't consider a year 'memorable' when we exit a world event winless and in group stage.
 
giri26 said:
These things happen for all the teams. Thats what cricket is about. Injuries will happen. If you start discrediting wins based on who was available in the opposition, you will have very less teams with credible series wins. Lots of sides miss one or two players in a series or lose them during a series. This is a professional sport, teams are supposed to adapt to changes, it is not India's problem that SA players got injured or went out of form. There are lots of ifs and buts in your statement. We are not even sure if them playing even would have made any difference. ABD did not set the world alight in the 2 games he played. De Kock struggled to get the ball off the square in the two games he played. Only Faf scored a hundred in the first game and even that was not enough to help SA. India would have still won all three games, probably SA would have scored more runs but still would have lost. Their bowlers were not able to stem the runs from the Indian top order and India easily chased 270 in the first game with overs to spare.

India played the cards they were dealt with and won, thats about it. Anything else is an excuse.
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Basically they want Indian A Side to compete with All Time World Best XI, only then the win can be credited provided the case is declared free from any BCCI interference at the International Court of Justice!
 
Chief Destroyer said:
It's the same team that beat India in India.
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Quality has decreased though

Amla, Tahir, Duminy and Steyn (even if he played) arent at same level anymore

other key cogs like Miller and De Kock are severely out of form

AB (who has been in and out for 15 months) and Faf would have improved but not significantly imo.

This Saffer side is at end of cycle.
 
Slog said:
Quality has decreased though

Amla, Tahir, Duminy and Steyn (even if he played) arent at same level anymore

other key cogs like Miller and De Kock are severely out of form

AB (who has been in and out for 15 months) and Faf would have improved but not significantly imo.

This Saffer side is at end of cycle.
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Nobody gave this kind of lenience when India lost twice 4-0 during the last "broken" legs of Fab 4. I can still remember the exponential intensity of enthusiasm in criticizing and bashing the Indian team on PP... They almost went on to say that the Fab-4 didn't deserve all the fame and accolades they got in their whole career and their successful career itself was fluke and those two series are the actual testimony to their talent!
 
RamLakhan said:
Nobody gave this kind of lenience when India lost twice 4-0 during the last "broken" legs of Fab 4. I can still remember the exponential intensity of enthusiasm in criticizing and bashing the Indian team on PP... They almost went on to say that the Fab-4 didn't deserve all the fame and accolades they got in their whole career and their successful career itself was fluke and those two series are the actual testimony to their talent!
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then you need to stop being baited so easily....

So if you dont agree with my post do you agree with the original premise that [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] put forward that India only won the series because SA's main players are injured or missing? And that if they were playing India would have lost the series like they did at home against the same players?

I countered that the players missing are past it to some extent anyway so India may have likely won even with them....
 
Slog said:
then you need to stop being baited so easily....

So if you dont agree with my post do you agree with the original premise that [MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] put forward that India only won the series because SA's main players are injured or missing? And that if they were playing India would have lost the series like they did at home against the same players?

I countered that the players missing are past it to some extent anyway so India may have likely won even with them....
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So India winning or losing the series is only the function of how SA players are playing and who among them are playing? The fact that we have a much much superior bowling attack now doesn't feature in your 2015 vs 2018 analysis?
 
Princejain191 said:
So India winning or losing the series is only the function of how SA players are playing and who among them are playing? The fact that we have a much much superior bowling attack now doesn't feature in your 2015 vs 2018 analysis?
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ofcourse it does.

but you can expect a SA side of 2013-2015 to win against this India at home
 
Slog said:
ofcourse it does.

but you can expect a SA side of 2013-2015 to win against this India at home
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I expect them to compete better but to win? maybe not, this Indian side has three batsmen at their peak right now, one of the best death bowlers in the world and two high-quality wrist spinners (all of whom average less than 25). Tahir and Rabada have been played with much ease in the series. And AB and Amla may not be at their very best, but they were struggling to read these two guys. India didn't just win the series, they have dominated. Batting average of 50 and bowling average of 22 in the series.
 
Slog said:
ofcourse it does.

but you can expect a SA side of 2013-2015 to win against this India at home
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tbh, no. The SA team that toured India in 2015, won 3-2. Arguably, it was one of their strongest periods so they were at their peak. The Indian side since that series of 2015 has improved, especially in bowling. The batting is still on the same level. So, the SA side of 2013 - 2015 will no doubt compete against this India in India, but not sure if they will win. And that is primarily due to our spinners.
 
Sidilicious said:
tbh, no. The SA team that toured India in 2015, won 3-2. Arguably, it was one of their strongest periods so they were at their peak. The Indian side since that series of 2015 has improved, especially in bowling. The batting is still on the same level. So, the SA side of 2013 - 2015 will no doubt compete against this India in India, but not sure if they will win. And that is primarily due to our spinners.
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It was "bat first and win the match" type of series in 2015.India were missing with two of their best bowlersl.R ashwin was in great form throughout 2015 and Shami was our best bowler in 2015 WC.Ashwin didn't have a bad series across all formats in 2015(WC 2015,BD (Test and Odis),SL (Test),SA (t20s &Test)).However,We would've lost the match against any good team on Wankhede pitch.
 
No way. India were expected to be competitive in test. The batters lost us the test series. Yes India played well but it is not as big a win as the CB 2008
 
Savage said:
It was "bat first and win the match" type of series in 2015.India were missing with two of their best bowlersl.R ashwin was in great form throughout 2015 and Shami was our best bowler in 2015 WC.Ashwin didn't have a bad series across all formats in 2015(WC 2015,BD (Test and Odis),SL (Test),SA (t20s &Test)).However,We would've lost the match against any good team on Wankhede pitch.
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Agreed. As I said, we would have still won the series, with this team against the 2015 SA team in India. We played Axar Patel for 5 matches :facepalm:
 
lehen said:
No way. India were expected to be competitive in test. The batters lost us the test series. Yes India played well but it is not as big a win as the CB 2008
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tbh, the 2008 CB series laid a great foundation for the Indian team's victory in 2011 WC. Got rid of Dravid and Ganguly in that series and concentrated on a younger side.

To an extent, so did the 2002 Natwest Series for our performance in 2003 WC. with Yuvi and Kaif with the bat, and Zak with the ball.

Will this win against SA lay a foundation for 2019 WC. Spinners, and Pandya getting their first proper exposure in a SENA win?
 
Sidilicious said:
tbh, the 2008 CB series laid a great foundation for the Indian team's victory in 2011 WC. Got rid of Dravid and Ganguly in that series and concentrated on a younger side.

To an extent, so did the 2002 Natwest Series for our performance in 2003 WC. with Yuvi and Kaif with the bat, and Zak with the ball.

Will this win against SA lay a foundation for 2019 WC. Spinners, and Pandya getting their first proper exposure in a SENA win?
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Dravid was sacked from the ODI side in the series prior to that, against Pakistan. Ganguly was sacked in that series though.
 
Pales in comparison to Pak victory against SA which had ATG bowling from Tsotsobe , McLaren etc.
 
Hitman said:
Dravid was sacked from the ODI side in the series prior to that, against Pakistan. Ganguly was sacked in that series though.
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If you watch Dhoni movie you can see how steadfast he was about removing slow moving players. Actually we knew that even at the time of happening.
 
One of there best oversees LO win for me. South Africa at home are usually a strong team.
 
There is no comparison between our series win in 2013 and this.

Firstly, it was a 3 match series unlike 6. That South African team was far better than ours and beating them over the course of 3 matches is easier than 6.

Secondly, our win in the second ODI was a bit of a fluke. Shehzad punched well above his weight and scored a very well paced century (for once), and the South African bottled the chase lead by the serial bottler Amla as usual.

India have completely outclassed South Africa in all departments and fully deserve to win the series 5-1. In fact, it could have easily been 6-0 but Chahal had a rare off-day.

This is as good as any overseas ODI series win ever. What a phenomenal team India is, and the firm favorites for the next World Cup alongside England.

In fact, they could very well be winning both of the next two World Cups because it is quite unlikely that they will let the home World Cup slip in 2023. They won in 2011 and missed out against West Indies in the WT20 two years ago at home.

The rise of Indian cricket certainly over the last two decades certainly leaves you in awe, and it has been fully deserved thanks to their evolution as a cricket nation.
 
It would have seemed bigger if the matches were closer. The margin of victories makes it feel not so special.
 
India have not just won but shown up the lack of depth in in Saffer cricket. Barring the rain affected match, the South Africans have never been in the game, looking utterly outclassed and out of breath. This is something no other Indian team has accomplished before, so on that account alone this series will be one for the ages.
 
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