Is there really anything to this issue of falsification of Pakistan player's ages?

[Snatch]

I've often heard speculation of players ages being falsified, most notably cynicism about whether Afridi really debuted as a 14 year old.

If this is true, can somebody explain the phenomenon? Why it seems specific to Pakistan, & how common it is that players ages are misrepresented?

I'm assuming it's an exception rather than a rule, & that 90+% are accurate.

 

[Ellipsism]

Pakistani officials often do not record births immediately, so most births are recorded with the wrong date of birth. In Afridi's case, it has been claimed by some that he is up to 3 years older than stated by officials.

"The radiology reports conducted by the Pakistanis also estimated that Shahid Afridi, who made the fastest one-day international hundred, off 37 balls against Sri Lanka in Kenya last month, was 19 not 16. "

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1996-97/ZIM_IN_PAK/ARTICLES/RAZA_RECORD_STRUCK_29OCT1996.html

 

[TahirFan]

Younis Khans looks like he is 50 years old.

 

[ExpressPacer]

This is a problem in all of Asia, actually. Worst in Afghanistan followed by Pakistan and then India and Bangladesh. Some players are actually as old as they say they are like Misbah, Masood, Azam, Imad Wasim etc.

In India, some notable mentions would be Raina, Dhawan, Pathan brothers, PRAVEEN KUMAR (God this guy has gotta be 5 years older) and another spinner who I can't remember. But the situation is not as bad.

 

[Pete Rose]

There have always been rumors about this. Ifti chacha is an example. There was plenty of ridicule in the press on his claim of being 25

 

[Mir jibran]

there was a recent example of zukfiqar babar whos dob is shown as 1978 today but played for an u 19 team in 2000 when he would have been 22

 

[Boycottisno2]

Take an example of fixer Nasir Jamshed who is showing on PCB website as a 27 year old.... but when British police arrested him and they announced a person in his 30's was arrested and bailed by them.....

so he is in his 30's and PCB showing he is 27..... this sucks as far as Pakistan cricket authorities are concerned

 

[Major]

95% of the players who play have fake ages. There are ways to fake your age. There is a reason why players fake their ages, which i believe is not wrong thing to do.


I was also against players who faked their ages and all, but when i joined club cricket i realized why these guys do this.

Thing is, in Pakistan, there is this Cricket circle. Once you enter this cricket circle, there is no stopping you as you keep getting promotions from u19 to grade 2 cricketers, grade 2 cricketer to senior District cricketers, from senior district to first class etc.

But the problem is getting into this cricket circle. Once you cross the age of 19, you can't get into this professional cricketers circle no matter how good you are because there are no trials held for above 19s. Even if there are trials the guys who have played first class or grade 2 easily get selected as they have the reputation which helps them.

Thus, the most easiest and simple way to get into the cricket circle is from U19 and U16. If you know how to hold a bat or throw a ball with a proper bowlers action, you could easily get into u16 and u19. But if you were above the 19 age and still haven't made your debut in the professional cricket circle it will be very hard for you no matter how good you are. Even if you were at the level of SHadab Khan, still you wont get picked.

Problem is there arn't any PCB run club tournaments in Pakistan which could help a player make himself recognized.

Thus the players have to do this. If they dont do this, then trust me, you would had never seen Mohammad Nawaz or Shadab Khan make their Pakistan debuts

Over the years at my club i have learned the different process of getting age reduced.
FIrst of all before the u16 or 19 district trials are about to come, our coaches start telling us to reduce ages.

Here are the different process.

1)Through Nadra. If you are u18 and haven't given your finger prints to Nadra for ID card, your age could be reduced easily if you give some good amount of money to a corrupt official, or if you know somebody.
2)Getting your Birth Certificate(B Form) made late. I know many people who get their B forms made late, and this is very beneficial as for Civil services the age restriction is 28.
3)Playing on someone elses name. Some players who play cricket, they arn't even using their original name, they are using their younger brothers name or some cousins etc.
This is done by, a single B form has the name and identity number of your who family(Husband, Wife and Kids) so when you go to trials and your name is Amir and your brothers name is Nawaz, you just tell them you're Nawaz and you end up playing your career as Nawaz.
Same way by playing under some cousins name.
4)Another way, which i have heard but i'm not sure is getting another kid entered in the family B form

In a country like Pakistan, a poor man could afford to do these things as they dont get educated or have degrees, thus the name and age issue doesn't come up. Some people who have done metric(grade 10 diploma) and FSC (grade 12 diploma) end up losing their degrees by changing their ages or names just for the sake of cricket.

I know many in my club who are playing as professionals with fake ages or names

 

[Pakpak]

Hafeez is also not 36. He is 39, I know that for a fact through someone who went to the same class as him.

Even in my own family some people are a year younger.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Pakistan government has started recording date of births on the day of birth on in the same week now. So hopefully 25 years from now we will only get the real ages. For now we will have to deal with the fake ages. It matters mostly at under 19 levels where we play 21 22 years olds.

 

[MMHS]

It's very common in Asia or African countries to fake age. Apart from cricket reasons mentioned by Major, even for Govt. Service reducing age is beneficiary, because it prolongs service career.

I don't see it much of a problem for cricket as long as people in charge use judgements during scouting & selection. In Africa, most of the football players fake age by 2 to even 10 years - European clubs pick African footballers at the age of 16/17, even 14 & most of those actually run out their last contract at early 30s. If I take the best of the very best, most of them were out of major leagues by 30-31, which ideally should be still a prime age for a footballer, unless he is a singer or forward.

Age cheating is the least of the problems as Imran proved - it's the biggest problem if youngsters like Iftekhar are debuted at tender age of 25 & players are treated as youngsta buti at the official age of 30.

 

[Gr8Gaur]

This is a problem in all of Asia, actually. Worst in Afghanistan followed by Pakistan and then India and Bangladesh. Some players are actually as old as they say they are like Misbah, Masood, Azam, Imad Wasim etc.

In India, some notable mentions would be Raina, Dhawan, Pathan brothers, PRAVEEN KUMAR (God this guy has gotta be 5 years older) and another spinner who I can't remember. But the situation is not as bad.

Feels good that you mention India even if you got no substance to prove otherwise ?

 

[FlickedOffHips]

I've often heard speculation of players ages being falsified, most notably cynicism about whether Afridi really debuted as a 14 year old.

If this is true, can somebody explain the phenomenon? Why it seems specific to Pakistan, & how common it is that players ages are misrepresented?

I'm assuming it's an exception rather than a rule, & that 90+% are accurate.

Yes I think this bit is true. apart from Afridi I can't think of anyone else.

 

[dildildalwalla]

I've often heard speculation of players ages being falsified, most notably cynicism about whether Afridi really debuted as a 14 year old.

If this is true, can somebody explain the phenomenon? Why it seems specific to Pakistan, & how common it is that players ages are misrepresented?

I'm assuming it's an exception rather than a rule, & that 90+% are accurate.

I think AFridis age was 16 not 14 lol And I know for a fact his age was/is correct because my cousin went to the same school and played in the same teams and was in the same year group.

And personally, in the last 20 years anyway, I don't believe there is any truth to Pak players age being falsified. Its just the colonial mind set many Pakistanis have that everything they do is wrong but everything a white person is right.

 

[dildildalwalla]

Oh and I want to add, Indians and Bengalis have often had the same accusations thrown at them but unlike us, their fans don't want to make their players seem like criminals all the time.

 

[Gr8Gaur]

I think AFridis age was 16 not 14 lol And I know for a fact his age was/is correct because my cousin went to the same school and played in the same teams and was in the same year group.

And personally, in the last 20 years anyway, I don't believe there is any truth to Pak players age being falsified. Its just the colonial mind set many Pakistanis have that everything they do is wrong but everything a white person is right.

This not what others say but what Pakistanis say themselves. Wasim Akram in an interview that often comes to TV with an Oz host claimed that he for a fact knew that Waqar was elder to him while Wiki shows otherwise.

 

[Gr8Gaur]

Oh and I want to add, Indians and Bengalis have often had the same accusations thrown at them but unlike us, their fans don't want to make their players seem like criminals all the time.

LOL! Just to make yourself feel good you like to throw accusation on neighborhood. None amongs the Indians or Bengalis got stuck at 17 like Lala did for years.

 

[dildildalwalla]

This not what others say but what Pakistanis say themselves. Wasim Akram in an interview that often comes to TV with an Oz host claimed that he for a fact knew that Waqar was elder to him while Wiki shows otherwise.

like I said, its the colonial mentality. If you don't know what that is, look it up. I don't want to have to explain english prases to you

 

[dildildalwalla]

LOL! Just to make yourself feel good you like to throw accusation on neighborhood. None amongs the Indians or Bengalis got stuck at 17 like Lala did for years.

I didn't throw nay accusations. Why are you Indians so easily offended. And prove that Afridis age stayed at 17 for years? If not then I will be adding you to my increasing ban list.

 

[TestMatch]

Forget drug tests. The ICC need to start carbon dating all players.

 

[Ph_11]

It is a sub continent problem. In India it is becoming difficult as people have started complaining.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

It's not just because they are cricketers they reduce age. I have seen some relatives just living ordinary life but on their dokuments they are many years younger then what they are in reality.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Feels good that you mention India even if you got no substance to prove otherwise ?

I mentioned India so that people like you can know that this problem is not only in Pakistan but also India?

 

[Gr8Gaur]

I didn't throw nay accusations. Why are you Indians so easily offended. And prove that Afridis age stayed at 17 for years? If not then I will be adding you to my increasing ban list.

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/A...AK/ARTICLES/RAZA_RECORD_STRUCK_29OCT1996.html

Read this article and read well. And the source is not Indian in any way.

'Ban list', LOL! You're so touchy mate.

 

[Gr8Gaur]

Dravid has already suggested a way and though its not the ideal solution but still a good try, BCCI is considering it too.

And the solution is that just one U-19 WC for each player, no one can play U-19 twice.

 

[Hamza_]

Mostly it's the case of Birth Certificate being made late by Parents due to one reason or another.

My birth certificate had date of an year later than my actual date of birth.

 

[MMHS]

Dravid has already suggested a way and though its not the ideal solution but still a good try, BCCI is considering it too.

And the solution is that just one U-19 WC for each player, no one can play U-19 twice.

Won't work - 23 years old "kids" will play one U19 WC with double shaven chin. You seem to be convinced that Srfaraz Khan was 17 last year or Deepka Hooda 18, so I won't go to whose who; but this age cheating won't stop unless internal administrators are willing. Not a single over aged player can sneak into the team unless backed by the people selecting them.

In Professional sports in most developed countries, they manage it differently - hurting where it hurts most, your pocket. More or less, every European league, rule is until 18, you can't sign a professional contract, rather you earn a retainer-ship for training facilities at the club. So, Liverpool kept Starling at 5K, then 10K/week for 3 years until he turned 18 & his contract went to 75K/week the very next week of his 18th birthday ....... then to 170K/week a year later at Masoor's expense. This is more or less same for every kid - from CRod to Paul Pogba. In US, you can sign pro contract in NBA at 18 - that's US 1mn/year as base salary to start - before that, you play NCCA - Labron James was the highest paid player at NCCA ever - $75K for his final year. Now, had those kids bunked 3 years of age - that's about 25mn US net loss, because unlike PCB, pro clubs won't keep 40 years old haggard at premium wage - regardless of certificate, they'll be out of contract after their biological productive ages. If they do it like Iftekhar - entire career might end under retainer-ship.

In Pro tennis, females can turn pro at 15, male at 16 - which means, at Afrdidi's standard Martina Hingis or Tracy Austin could have ended career as amateur ..............

Problem isn't with the players, many of whom doesn't even know own DoB.

 

[RickyG]

Feels good that you mention India even if you got no substance to prove otherwise ?

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/A...AK/ARTICLES/RAZA_RECORD_STRUCK_29OCT1996.html

Read this article and read well. And the source is not Indian in any way.

'Ban list', LOL! You're so touchy mate.

In the exact article that you linked it says:

"It was recently revealed that the captain of India's World Cup-winning under-15 side, Reetinder Sodhi, was exposed as a 17-year-old in a court case in India, upon his return home."

Also, everyone's aware that Afridi is a few years older than he says but that doesn't mean he stayed 17 for a few years and the article doesn't prove that.

 

[Adil_94]

In the past it did use to happen a lot.

But slowly this practice is being phased out in villages too.

Most kids bowl in the 90s unless they are from some absolute rural backwater will have an accurate birth date.

In the 70s and 80s this wasnt the case.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Some argue it is a practice comparable to doping. If you have 20-24 year olds playing under 19s cricket how is this fair to the players who really are the age they say they are? And the same holds true for all the other age categories.

 

[dildildalwalla]

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/A...AK/ARTICLES/RAZA_RECORD_STRUCK_29OCT1996.html

Read this article and read well. And the source is not Indian in any way.

'Ban list', LOL! You're so touchy mate.

touchy? I completed Indian fans and you actually got offended by it?

And what is that article which carries 0 sources? And it does not provide me with proof of your statement "for years Afridi's age stayed 16"

banned

 

[Pakpak]

like I said, its the colonial mentality. If you don't know what that is, look it up. I don't want to have to explain english prases to you

Ridiculous post.

Nothing to do with colonial nonsense, just some hard facts. Afridi himself has admitted numerous times his age is false by 2-3 years. I know for a fact that Hafeez is not 36. Nasir Jamshed's age is wrong too. Not only players but Pakistanis by large falsify ages. People in my family and social circle all have by a year or two. Read [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] 's post above for first-hand account.

Africans and Brazilians do it too, hence its no surprise why their top players tank when they approach thirty.

 

[sjahmed23]

This is a thing a lot of Pakistanis do. Some of my friends are 2-3 years younger because their parents thought it would be beneficial for their schooling and ect... some people also hid their age for sponsorship purposes as anyone over 21 could not get visa under their parents in the US.

 

[Major]

Some argue it is a practice comparable to doping. If you have 20-24 year olds playing under 19s cricket how is this fair to the players who really are the age they say they are? And the same holds true for all the other age categories.

the problem is everyone on the internet could sit around and just judge, but no one around here knows why they have to do it.

If you want to finish this practice, then create a program or proper procedure where above 19 players could also become professional cricketers, and it should be an easy procedure.

Many Rawal Pindi spinners who are playing in the national team wouldn't had made it had they not faked their ages.

 

[London_Lahori]

95% of the players who play have fake ages. There are ways to fake your age. There is a reason why players fake their ages, which i believe is not wrong thing to do.


I was also against players who faked their ages and all, but when i joined club cricket i realized why these guys do this.

Thing is, in Pakistan, there is this Cricket circle. Once you enter this cricket circle, there is no stopping you as you keep getting promotions from u19 to grade 2 cricketers, grade 2 cricketer to senior District cricketers, from senior district to first class etc.

But the problem is getting into this cricket circle. Once you cross the age of 19, you can't get into this professional cricketers circle no matter how good you are because there are no trials held for above 19s. Even if there are trials the guys who have played first class or grade 2 easily get selected as they have the reputation which helps them.

Thus, the most easiest and simple way to get into the cricket circle is from U19 and U16. If you know how to hold a bat or throw a ball with a proper bowlers action, you could easily get into u16 and u19. But if you were above the 19 age and still haven't made your debut in the professional cricket circle it will be very hard for you no matter how good you are. Even if you were at the level of SHadab Khan, still you wont get picked.

Problem is there arn't any PCB run club tournaments in Pakistan which could help a player make himself recognized.

Thus the players have to do this. If they dont do this, then trust me, you would had never seen Mohammad Nawaz or Shadab Khan make their Pakistan debuts

Over the years at my club i have learned the different process of getting age reduced.
FIrst of all before the u16 or 19 district trials are about to come, our coaches start telling us to reduce ages.

Here are the different process.

1)Through Nadra. If you are u18 and haven't given your finger prints to Nadra for ID card, your age could be reduced easily if you give some good amount of money to a corrupt official, or if you know somebody.
2)Getting your Birth Certificate(B Form) made late. I know many people who get their B forms made late, and this is very beneficial as for Civil services the age restriction is 28.
3)Playing on someone elses name. Some players who play cricket, they arn't even using their original name, they are using their younger brothers name or some cousins etc.
This is done by, a single B form has the name and identity number of your who family(Husband, Wife and Kids) so when you go to trials and your name is Amir and your brothers name is Nawaz, you just tell them you're Nawaz and you end up playing your career as Nawaz.
Same way by playing under some cousins name.
4)Another way, which i have heard but i'm not sure is getting another kid entered in the family B form

In a country like Pakistan, a poor man could afford to do these things as they dont get educated or have degrees, thus the name and age issue doesn't come up. Some people who have done metric(grade 10 diploma) and FSC (grade 12 diploma) end up losing their degrees by changing their ages or names just for the sake of cricket.

I know many in my club who are playing as professionals with fake ages or names

Very interesting.