Is Virat Kohli the next Ricky Ponting?

[Scrolln]

Kohli vs Ponting in ODI's is a totally valid comparison.

In tests, although Kohli's failure in England reminds me of Ponting's struggles in India, he has some way to go to be compared to Ponting. Ponting averaged 60 after 107 tests while Kohli is struggling to maintain a test avg of 45! Even though their test stats after 40 tests are eerily similar, it is unlikely that he'll peak like Ponting. In tests, Ponting almost always came good when his team was in trouble.

 

[Sachin136]

So Smith wasnt that good in England depsite averaging 43 but Kohli with an ATG average of 13 gets a free pass? Similarly Kohli follows up his ATG average of 13 in England with an average of 15 in West Indies but Smith who averages 100+ in those conditions doesnt get any credit for it. And Kohli's big scores on Aussie pancakes gets a lot of credit too where in the same series Smith was giving phainty after phainty but no credit for that either?

Come off it mate. Smith is a far superior test player than Kohli at this point.

Did I say Kohli's failure in England should be ignored? It wasn't even a part of what I was saying, I just pointed out that Smith wasn't amazing in England either. If Kohli's runs in Australia were on flat pitches (which they weren't - Kohli made 2 centuries on that turning Adelaide pitch), then how about Smith's runs in England on the flat Lord's pitch?

Smith's runs in Australia are given less credit because for Kohli they were not home conditions and Kohli faced a better bowling attack.

You replied to one fragment of a sentence that I made about Smith not doing too well in England, but completely ignored the rest of the post.

 

[Suleiman]

Seriously speaking, I'll put it this way. If there is a youngster out there who wants a role model to copy in batting, don't think you'll find a better example than Kohli. Right now he is the coaching manual's dream, every movement he has when playing a stroke works in perfect synergy. And this is not just me, quite a few times now whenever this guy has played a cover drive I hear a commentator who was a batsman in his playing days say something along the lines of "to all the youngins at home who want to be a batsman someday, THATS how you do it".

Steve Smith is a grinder, Joe Root as well to a lesser extent. But if you're talking about taking the attack to the bowler, I think Kohli wins here, and that is invaluable, much like Viv is considered an ATG not necessarily because of his average but his strike rate coupled with his average which was invaluable in winning games.

I think without him in certain games India would be way behind the opposition, and a draw because of him may have been turned into a potential loss. Yeah you can say "but the pitches he did well on overseas are all flat", but that's been the trend for the past 2 years now. Pitches in England and Australia are made to be more batting friendly than they were, that's not really his fault.

With that said, while I agree he is ahead of Smith and Root, I don't think he's quite complete yet until he conquers his final frontier, that being England. If by his next tour he improves himself and can cope with a similar challenge to what Anderson gave him, then you can start comparing him to greats.

This is about tests obviously. ODIs are a different story altogether. I will say that if Amir is already compared to Wasim by some folks here, than Kohli being hailed as an ODI great should be nothing out of the ordinary.

 

[Chrish]

Impossible to compare a player who has played 40 test to someone who has played 160..

As for OdI, game has changed drastically with new rules so comparison becomes invalid

Kohli certainly has both attitude and potential

 

[Ankit007]

Ponting was more good looking and he never dropped dollies like Kohli, excellent fielder. I have seen Kohli cussing and acting like a monkey but dropped easy catches and looked foolish

Do you even watch cricket. Kohli is an exceptional fielder. Anyone can drop some catches. But he also takes amazing catches and rarely drops any. And btw why are u so jealous? Coz u dont have anyone like him in ur team eh!

 

[Slog]

Did I say Kohli's failure in England should be ignored? It wasn't even a part of what I was saying, I just pointed out that Smith wasn't amazing in England either. If Kohli's runs in Australia were on flat pitches (which they weren't - Kohli made 2 centuries on that turning Adelaide pitch), then how about Smith's runs in England on the flat Lord's pitch?

Smith's runs in Australia are given less credit because for Kohli they were not home conditions and Kohli faced a better bowling attack.

You replied to one fragment of a sentence that I made about Smith not doing too well in England, but completely ignored the rest of the post.

Compared to Kohli, Smith is an ATG in England

And Kohli's Aus runs WERE on flat wickets. A way to check how flat a wicket is to see how other batsmen performed. There were almost SEVEN centuries in that Adelaide match for heavens sake. (Vijay had a 99). His last innings century was an ATG innings because conditions were much tougher by then but he choked. India were 6 down and only need 60 more runs to go and were going great guns and the remaining 60 runs seemed like a breeze. Then Kohli lost his plot and played a stupid shot.

A way to see a flat wicket is how

 

[Slog]

Basically Kohli is a potentially great player. He has done amazingly so far but has a way to go in Tests.

But Ponting is a far superior ODI player and it will be hard to outstage him. Smith is currently a superior Test player

 

[Ankit007]

Seriously speaking, I'll put it this way. If there is a youngster out there who wants a role model to copy in batting, don't think you'll find a better example than Kohli. Right now he is the coaching manual's dream, every movement he has when playing a stroke works in perfect synergy. And this is not just me, quite a few times now whenever this guy has played a cover drive I hear a commentator who was a batsman in his playing days say something along the lines of "to all the youngins at home who want to be a batsman someday, THATS how you do it".

Steve Smith is a grinder, Joe Root as well to a lesser extent. But if you're talking about taking the attack to the bowler, I think Kohli wins here, and that is invaluable, much like Viv is considered an ATG not necessarily because of his average but his strike rate coupled with his average which was invaluable in winning games.

I think without him in certain games India would be way behind the opposition, and a draw because of him may have been turned into a potential loss. Yeah you can say "but the pitches he did well on overseas are all flat", but that's been the trend for the past 2 years now. Pitches in England and Australia are made to be more batting friendly than they were, that's not really his fault.

With that said, while I agree he is ahead of Smith and Root, I don't think he's quite complete yet until he conquers his final frontier, that being England. If by his next tour he improves himself and can cope with a similar challenge to what Anderson gave him, then you can start comparing him to greats.

This is about tests obviously. ODIs are a different story altogether. I will say that if Amir is already compared to Wasim by some folks here, than Kohli being hailed as an ODI great should be nothing out of the ordinary.

Good to see some honest comments....

 

[Zak_Fan]

Compared to Kohli, Smith is an ATG in England

And Kohli's Aus runs WERE on flat wickets. A way to check how flat a wicket is to see how other batsmen performed. There were almost SEVEN centuries in that Adelaide match for heavens sake. (Vijay had a 99). His last innings century was an ATG innings because conditions were much tougher by then but he choked. India were 6 down and only need 60 more runs to go and were going great guns and the remaining 60 runs seemed like a breeze. Then Kohli lost his plot and played a stupid shot.

A way to see a flat wicket is how

What did Root or English batsmen do on the same flat tracks? Why is Williamson running away with all the credit for scoring on same flat tracks?

Please, it is one thing scoring against Ishant and company, while it is a totally different scenario facing Jhonson and Starc in Australia. It seems that only Kohli deserves to get penalized for scoring on flat tracks, which is nothing but a totally biased way of looking at things.

 

[Slog]

What did Root or English batsmen do on the same flat tracks? Why is Williamson running away with all the credit for scoring on same flat tracks?

Please, it is one thing scoring against Ishant and company, while it is a totally different scenario facing Jhonson and Starc in Australia. It seems that only Kohli deserves to get penalized for scoring on flat tracks, which is nothing but a totally biased way of looking at things.

No one is penalizing Kohli. But one should be fair and admit these were flat tracks overall. Some fans here would make it seem like Kohli scored these runs on 80s and 90s WACA pitch. Who is saying Williamson has proved himself to be superior to Kohli or sth through those innings?

 

[Acricketfan]

If thats the case then i think inzy must be compared with club level players

) ROFL. I would have fallen of a chair if I was sitting on one.

 

[Sachin136]

Compared to Kohli, Smith is an ATG in England

And Kohli's Aus runs WERE on flat wickets. A way to check how flat a wicket is to see how other batsmen performed. There were almost SEVEN centuries in that Adelaide match for heavens sake. (Vijay had a 99). His last innings century was an ATG innings because conditions were much tougher by then but he choked. India were 6 down and only need 60 more runs to go and were going great guns and the remaining 60 runs seemed like a breeze. Then Kohli lost his plot and played a stupid shot.

A way to see a flat wicket is how

Why does it matter how many centuries the Australians scored in that match? Adelaide was a turning pitch and the Australians scored those centuries against Karn Sharma (if Ashwin was playing that match then it would have been different). On the other hand the Indian batsmen did not score a single century apart from Kohli’s 2 centuries against Lyon who bowled brilliantly and took 12 wickets.

 

[zabalestmsm]

Batting wise comparison;

Ricky Ponting, at his best, was brutal in ODIs. Kohli had shown some glimpses in the past but nowadays he has become over conscious and is not at his best. Lets see if he can display some brutality on consistent basis especially in this struggling phase of his ODI career. Also Ponting had delivered a brutal WC final winning century. Lets see if Kohli can produce such in future. Otherwise the comparison in ODIs is fair. But in Tests, Kohli has a long way to go.

 

[Acricketfan]

I think that some, not all Pakistanis can't digest the fact that we have 3 potential ATG batsmen in our team. Kohli, Rahane, and Pujara. Yes, I still have high hopes from Pujara.

 

[Slog]

Why does it matter how many centuries the Australians scored in that match? Adelaide was a turning pitch and the Australians scored those centuries against Karn Sharma (if Ashwin was playing that match then it would have been different). On the other hand the Indian batsmen did not score a single century apart from Kohli’s 2 centuries against Lyon who bowled brilliantly and took 12 wickets.

More excuses. Vijay scored 99 btw

 

[Slog]

I think that some, not all Pakistanis can't digest the fact that we have 3 potential ATG batsmen in our team. Kohli, Rahane, and Pujara. Yes, I still have high hopes from Pujara.

That might be true. Kohli is potentially ATG. But he has not surpassed Ponting in any format or even come close to matching him. And Smith, KW and maybe Root are all ahead of him as Test cricketers currently

 

[Acricketfan]

That might be true. Kohli is potentially ATG. But he has not surpassed Ponting in any format or even come close to matching him. And Smith, KW and maybe Root are all ahead of him as Test cricketers currently

Kw, Ss. Yes. Root. No.

 

[Slog]

Kw, Ss. Yes. Root. No.

Kohli has averaged 40+ in only 2 series India has won. And in neither was he an ATG performer. He was only decent and was outshined by others.

Root has sth like 4 already beastly averages of 90+ at that.

Fact is in Test cricket Root has won England test series and matches.

By and large Kohli's runs havent played the significant part in test wins. So for that I owuld give Root more points.

 

[Zak_Fan]

This thread isn't about whether Kohli is the best in the world today. He could be behind some other batsmen in the world, and still be comparable to Ponting. Let's not forget that Ponting himself was not a complete player, and for the good chunk of his career, he was counted among average/good batsmen.

Today, if any batsman worth a mention reminds people of Ponting, it is Kohli, and this is what the thread is about.

 

[Chrish]

Funny when Amla and ab piled up tons a year before in Australia, it was about class and greatness. But when Kohli scored those runs, the same wickets became "flat"..

Speaking of that, Kohli's ton in Adelaide in forth inning on a spitting pitch is the inning as good as I have ever seen. He went for a win against all odds.

One might benefit from watching actual cricket sometimes

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Basically Kohli is a potentially great player. He has done amazingly so far but has a way to go in Tests.

But Ponting is a far superior ODI player and it will be hard to outstage him. Smith is currently a superior Test player

Very well summarised.

 

[Slog]

Funny when Amla and ab piled up tons a year before in Australia, it was about class and greatness. But when Kohli scored those runs, the same wickets became "flat"..

Speaking of that, Kohli's ton in Adelaide in forth inning on a spitting pitch is the inning as good as I have ever seen. He went for a win against all odds.

One might benefit from watching actual cricket sometimes

Did you watch that innings.

That was as big a choke as ive ever seen. 60 runs to go. 4 wickets in hand and batting like a dream. And you play that brainless shot?

Its kind of funny. You bag Amla in ODIs for choking when it matters and scoring as some put it, 'pointless runs.' But Kohli's runs arent pointless despite the biggest choke of the year.

 

[Sachin136]

More excuses. Vijay scored 99 btw

Excuses? More like facts which you want to ignore.

How the batsmen did on the pitch doesn't influence the pitch at all. Batsmen can do badly on a flat pitch or do very well on a difficult pitch. If you saw the match, then you would agree that the Adelaide pitch was difficult to bat on (especially against Lyon).

 

[Scrolln]

Not sure how comparing their overseas record works in favor of Ponting in tests.

Ponting scored 16 away tons in his 160 test career (quite a few of them on flatties or against mediocre attacks) whereas Kohli already has 8 away tons in his 40 odd test career.

 

[Acricketfan]

Kohli has averaged 40+ in only 2 series India has won. And in neither was he an ATG performer. He was only decent and was outshined by others.

Root has sth like 4 already beastly averages of 90+ at that.

Fact is in Test cricket Root has won England test series and matches.

By and large Kohli's runs havent played the significant part in test wins. So for that I owuld give Root more points.

Root has done nothing, I repeat, nothing away from home.

 

[Slog]

Root has done nothing, I repeat, nothing away from home.

Averaged 90+ in West Indies and India as England won a test series.

 

[Chrish]

Did you watch that innings.

That was as big a choke as ive ever seen. 60 runs to go. 4 wickets in hand and batting like a dream. And you play that brainless shot?

Its kind of funny. You bag Amla in ODIs for choking when it matters and scoring as some put it, 'pointless runs.' But Kohli's runs arent pointless despite the biggest choke of the year.

The pitch was spitting and Lyon was unplayable.. Kohli had to accelerate his run rate due to fear of running out of partners at the other hand (which is what happened). So he scored those runs at the SR of 80 and you call it a choke?

AB and Amla both played on the same "flat roads" and yet they didn't come near Kohli. Yet see everyone conveniently neglecting that

 

[Sachin136]

Averaged 90+ in West Indies and India as England won a test series.

Root played 1 test match in India, which was drawn and was the last match in the series (England were already up 2-1). He made 73 and 20*. You're inflating those achievements and making it seem like he averaged 90+ through the whole series and played a major role in England winning the series.

 

[Mobashir]

Shameless thread.

When you have batsmen like Kane, Root, Smith and Warner going round to even talk about Kohli who is way behind them.

So to compare him with Ricky Ponting, the best player of Pace since Viv.

 

[Acricketfan]

Averaged 90+ in West Indies and India as England won a test series.

You take performances against West Indies seriously?

And his performance in India was in a dead rubber if I'm not wrong.

 

[Slog]

Root played 1 test match in India, which was drawn and was the last match in the series (England were already up 2-1). He made 73 and 20*. You're inflating those achievements and making it seem like he averaged 90+ through the whole series and played a major role in England winning the series.

West Indies he played a big role.

Those 93 runs may not be a whole lot but in the context of the series they were worth their weight in gold.

Root was called out of nowhere to DEBUT IN INDIA in place of a non performing player with England chasing their first ever series win in India in God knows how many decades. The pressure was immense and he played brilliantly. From that day I was like this kid will be a special player despite his timid look at the time and till a good year or so later

 

[Slog]

You take performances against West Indies seriously?

And his performance in India was in a dead rubber if I'm not wrong.

Away tours to West Indies are serious affair. They are whipping boys away from home but in the Carribean the are still a decent outfit

And no the India match was not a dead rubber

 

[Acricketfan]

Root played 1 test match in India, which was drawn and was the last match in the series (England were already up 2-1). He made 73 and 20*. You're inflating those achievements and making it seem like he averaged 90+ through the whole series and played a major role in England winning the series.

Exactly. Anything to put down an Indian cricketer. Anything.

 

[Slog]

Exactly. Anything to put down an Indian cricketer. Anything.

theres no need to use that to put down.

 

[Chrish]

Root has done nothing, I repeat, nothing away from home.

Cook is a class act.. English conditions are actually considered tough so his runs there aren't meaningless. Also he was one of the few who wasn't owned in UAE.

If he can succeed in SA, I would put him in the same bracket as Smith

 

[Acricketfan]

West Indies he played a big role.

Those 93 runs may not be a whole lot but in the context of the series they were worth their weight in gold.

Root was called out of nowhere to DEBUT IN INDIA in place of a non performing player with England chasing their first ever series win in India in God knows how many decades. The pressure was immense and he played brilliantly. From that day I was like this kid will be a special player despite his timid look at the time and till a good year or so later

Err. England were already leading 2-1.

 

[Slog]

Err. England were already leading 2-1.

If they lost which was likely then it would have been another drawn series. Winning the series meant history.

It was a VERY tough place to debut in for an English batsman.


Just like it would be hard for a subcontinental batsman to debut in Eng

 

[Acricketfan]

If they lost which was likely then it would have been another drawn series. Winning the series meant history.

It was a VERY tough place to debut in for an English batsman.


Just like it would be hard for a subcontinental batsman to debut in Eng

Goodness me. I give up. You're making it sound like England won the series because of Root. They won because of Cook, KP, Monty and Swann. Not Root.

 

[Slog]

Goodness me. I give up. You're making it sound like England won the series because of Root. They won because of Cook, KP, Monty and Swann. Not Root.

I am saying those runs are worth their weight in gold. They were very important runs

You are claiming that they were in a dead rubber.

You can give you because your dead rubber claim neither has merit and more mprtantly is factually wrong

 

[Acricketfan]

Virat is one of the rare batsmen who has found success in most places he has played in. It is still early stages of his career, and he has stamped his authority everywhere bar England. In ODIs, he is up there with the greatest already. Don't know what more he has to do in order to justify the comparison.

A fixer who failed miserably in 3/4 countries getting compared to Akram and Asif is fine.. but Kohli being compared to Ponting becomes a shameless comparison.

They are justjealous.

 

[Acricketfan]

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] where are you bro ?

 

[FlickedOffHips]

the two actually have more similarities than dissimilarities.

here's ponting test average after 41 tests( the number virat has played so far). 44.30.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...emplate=results;type=allround;view=cumulative

virat's for comparison. 44.02. identical.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/253802.html

virat is a much better ODI player than Ponting ever was though. average of 50.60. ponting finished on 42.03 and his average never went higher than 44 apart from 3 months between dec 07 and Feb 08, where it reached its highest of 44.40.

both play best at number 3 imo, both best batsmen on their team( i know some rahane fans would be upset. all i would say is that Rahane is very close), both captains.
His biggest challenge will be to be just as good a leader as Ponting. This is an area Ponting excelled at.

He's started well in that department, let's see how that turns out.

 

[Sachin136]

Away tours to West Indies are serious affair. They are whipping boys away from home but in the Carribean the are still a decent outfit

And no the India match was not a dead rubber

Away tours to West Indies are not a serious affair, even though England lost a match against them. Their batting is still terrible and apart from Holder their bowling isn't good either.

Even if Root's runs in that match were important, how does it show that he is a good batsman in Indian conditions? At the end of the day he made 73 and 20*. Ignoring the series itself, is that enough for you to say that he did well in India? If so, then there is no point in arguing with you.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Do you even watch cricket. Kohli is an exceptional fielder. Anyone can drop some catches. But he also takes amazing catches and rarely drops any. And btw why are u so jealous? Coz u dont have anyone like him in ur team eh!

Kohli is a terrible fielder, he is very overrated in the media. He is nowhere close to Punter

 

[Abdul]

One day he gets compared to Sachin Tendulkar - the other day to Ricky Ponting; funny scenario this.

I'm a huge fan of Virat Kohli and he is one of my favourite players at the moment but I'll admit that this thread is going a bit over the top.

What puzzles me more is that why are the cricketers from different generations compared anyways?

Virat Kohli will be remembered for being Virat Kohli in the future - just like Sachin Tendulkar and Ricky Ponting and other legends are being remembered for being themselves.

I'm sure even Virat Kohli/Steven Smith/Kane Williamson etc. want to build a name of themselves, rather than be labeled as a next [insert the name of a legend].

 

[Hitman]

Shameless thread.

When you have batsmen like Kane, Root, Smith and Warner going round to even talk about Kohli who is way behind them.

So to compare him with Ricky Ponting, the best player of Pace since Viv.

Really? But according to you and your hero Imran Khan, it's one Inzamam Ul Haq. I mean just have a look at his averages against Aus and SA.

 

[Sachin136]

Kohli is a terrible fielder, he is very overrated in the media. He is nowhere close to Punter

Kohli isn't as good as Ponting but he is far from being a terrible fielder.

 

[dauntless]

Ponting was more good looking and he never dropped dollies like Kohli, excellent fielder. I have seen Kohli cussing and acting like a monkey but dropped easy catches and looked foolish

Yep you are right man.I think his catches dropping percentage is More than his other teammates

 

[pillionrider]

Kohli the batsman will most likely end his career in the league of Ponting.

As Captains, they are pretty similar in terms of being honest to their teams (no politics basically) and the way they seem to inspire the younger cricketers coming through. Kohli however seems like he can be more imaginative than Ponting, so he might be able to do better as a leader.

As an overall cricketer, Punter is/will be ahead because he is the greatest modern-cricket fielder whereas Kohli is just about a good fielder (by modern day standards).

In terms of personality, Ricky came across as a natural unlike Virat who early on was a bit of a wannabe poser. But the rate at which Virat has been improving is phenomenal to the point where you can hardly take your eyeballs off him when he's speaking (on cricket). So Kohli potentially ahead in that regard.

So yeah, a pretty good and relevant comparison to make.

 

[street cricketer]

Kohli is a good outfielder, that's about it. There are a lot of better fielders than kohli in the Indian team itself. He's a terrible slip catcher and Punter is light years ahead of Kohli as an overall fielder. The man could hit the stumps cleanly from wherever he was in the field, probably he's the best I've seen at hitting the stumps from a distance.

 

[Mobashir]

the two actually have more similarities than dissimilarities.

here's ponting test average after 41 tests( the number virat has played so far). 44.30.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...emplate=results;type=allround;view=cumulative

virat's for comparison. 44.02. identical.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/player/253802.html

virat is a much better ODI player than Ponting ever was though. average of 50.60. ponting finished on 42.03 and his average never went higher than 44 apart from 3 months between dec 07 and Feb 08, where it reached its highest of 44.40.

both play best at number 3 imo, both best batsmen on their team( i know some rahane fans would be upset. all i would say is that Rahane is very close), both captains.
His biggest challenge will be to be just as good a leader as Ponting. This is an area Ponting excelled at.

He's started well in that department, let's see how that turns out.

Your posts show that you are watching cricket since 2-3 years max.

 

[rhony]

I'm not sure if Kohli is the next Ricky Printing. Unless he plays well in England, he can't be a great player. In ODIs, I think he is probably on his way to being one of the best. He is already one of the best chasers ever. His form has dipped a bit in the last year but his dual centuries in Adelaide test show that he has the ability to be one of the best. His attitude is similar to Ponting's and its disgusting.

 

[Sidilicious]

I'm not sure if Kohli is the next Ricky Printing. Unless he plays well in England, he can't be a great player. In ODIs, I think he is probably on his way to being one of the best. He is already one of the best chasers ever. His form has dipped a bit in the last year but his dual centuries in Adelaide test show that he has the ability to be one of the best. His attitude is similar to Ponting's and its disgusting.

Ponting also failed in India. Technically, that should equal Kohli's failures in England? Or non-subcontinent batsmen failing against spin doesnt count against them, but a subcontinent batman failing in NZ/SA/Aus/Eng are called FTB?

Obviously Kohli has time to rectify his

 

[rhony]

Ponting also failed in India. Technically, that should equal Kohli's failures in England? Or non-subcontinent batsmen failing against spin doesnt count against them, but a subcontinent batman failing in NZ/SA/Aus/Eng are called FTB?

Obviously Kohli has time to rectify his

That's exactly the reason why Printing was never considered as good as Lara or Tendulkar. However, Ponting is still an ATG based on his performances against some of the best fast bowlers on bouncy and seaming pitches.

 

[Acricketfan]

That's exactly the reason why Printing was never considered as good as Lara or Tendulkar. However, Ponting is still an ATG based on his performances against some of the best fast bowlers on bouncy and seaming pitches.

I consider him the same league as Sachin and Lara. Almost every batsman has a bogey country or two. That doesn't mean that they are not an ATG batsman.

 

[TestMatch]

Steve Smith is a grinder, Joe Root as well to a lesser extent. But if you're talking about taking the attack to the bowler, I think Kohli wins here, and that is invaluable, much like Viv is considered

Kohli does not ATTACK in tests. His strike rate is 52, incredibly slow for the modern era, and of course much slower than Ponting and Viv.

 

[Itachi]

Huh? Root just toured UAE and was brilliant there. Handled our spinners and more importantly Yasir with much ease.

Everyone gets rolled over here and top bats like Williamson, Smith and Root have had success in the toughest place to tour for non Asian teams.

Of course, they're already great outside Asia.

Don't burn, Rahane is the better bat in Tests specially so it's not something to do with India. I'll just go with the better batsman, nothing personal.

Root is English. Good for splash and dash but not a long term prospective.

English players are fragile by nature.

 

[Bilal7]

Lol, Kohli has been compared to Sachin, then Lara and now Ponting.

He's an overrated batsman, with several glaring flaws to go with his obvious strengths. If you're talking about aesthetics, then yes, Kohli is like Ponting, just like Moeen Ali is like Saeed Anwar. If the discussion is about ability then Kohli is not fit to tie Punter's shoelaces.

 

[Bilal7]

Kohli does not ATTACK in tests. His strike rate is 52, incredibly slow for the modern era, and of course much slower than Ponting and Viv.

No, it is not incredibly slow, this has been the normal SR for a couple of decades. As long as you can attack and defend, it doesn't matter what your career SR is.

 

[Berserk_Marshal_]

Lol, Kohli has been compared to Sachin, then Lara and now Ponting.

He's an overrated batsman, with several glaring flaws to go with his obvious strengths. If you're talking about aesthetics, then yes, Kohli is like Ponting, just like Moeen Ali is like Saeed Anwar. If the discussion is about ability then Kohli is not fit to tie Punter's shoelaces.

You're seriously undermining what Kohli has achieved at the relatively young age of 27 here. For all his flaws, the man has 34 international hundreds to his name already. Ponting himself was just a "good" test batsman in the 90s with enormous flaws in his spin playing ability. It was only after the turn of the century did he truly become a "world class batsman". Comparatively, Kohli for all money was one of the best batsman in the world for a reasonable period in 2012-13 and has atleast featured in the discussion since henceforth.

 

[Ab Fan]

In odis, Kohli can surely match Ponting.At this age he achieved much more than ponting in odis.So a comparison is pretty valid.In tests, they have similar stats after 40 tests but remember Ponting since then peaked for seven years like no one ever did barring Bradman in longer format.It will be immense task for Kohli or any1 to match Ponting at its peak.

 

[Haroon786]

So Smith wasnt that good in England depsite averaging 43 but Kohli with an ATG average of 13 gets a free pass? Similarly Kohli follows up his ATG average of 13 in England with an average of 15 in West Indies but Smith who averages 100+ in those conditions doesnt get any credit for it. And Kohli's big scores on Aussie pancakes gets a lot of credit too where in the same series Smith was giving phainty after phainty but no credit for that either?

Come off it mate. Smith is a far superior test player than Kohli at this point.

Smith averaged over 50 in the last Ashes in England IIRC.

 

[Bilal7]

You're seriously undermining what Kohli has achieved at the relatively young age of 27 here. For all his flaws, the man has 34 international hundreds to his name already. Ponting himself was just a "good" test batsman in the 90s with enormous flaws in his spin playing ability. It was only after the turn of the century did he truly become a "world class batsman". Comparatively, Kohli for all money was one of the best batsman in the world for a reasonable period in 2012-13 and has atleast featured in the discussion since henceforth.

You're expecting Kohli to keep on improving from here on out and that is not a given. Especially in ODIs, where he peaked in the time-period you have given. Sure, he may end up joining Kane Williamson, Joe Root and Steve Smith as one of the best batsman in the world, moving forward, however, comparing him to a bona-fide ATG like Ricky Ponting, at this stage in his career, only sets him up for ridicule.

Kohli is not Ponting and thus, his career trajectory will not follow Ponting's own. For all we know, he may go the Saqlain Mushtaq route and end up toothless by the time he is 30.

 

[Acricketfan]

In odis, Kohli can surely match Ponting.At this age he achieved much more than ponting in odis.So a comparison is pretty valid.In tests, they have similar stats after 40 tests but remember Ponting since then peaked for seven years like no one ever did barring Bradman in longer format.It will be immense task for Kohli or any1 to match Ponting at its peak.

Ponting Averaged 70+ between 2002 and 2006 IIRC.

 

[Bilal7]

In odis, Kohli can surely match Ponting.At this age he achieved much more than ponting in odis.So a comparison is pretty valid.In tests, they have similar stats after 40 tests but remember Ponting since then peaked for seven years like no one ever did barring Bradman in longer format.It will be immense task for Kohli or any1 to match Ponting at its peak.

What exactly has he achieved? Come on. No one in their right mind would pick Kohli over Ponting for their fantasy all-time XI.

 

[Nothing matters]

Lol at people under rating Root here.He's a tremendous player and better than kohli in tests.He scored runs in UAE too never looked troubled.One of best batsmen today.

 

[Ab Fan]

What exactly has he achieved? Come on. No one in their right mind would pick Kohli over Ponting for their fantasy all-time XI.

He has already won many games for India in odis and has played lots of match winning knocks. Obviously, no one is saying that he is better than ponting already. He has long way to go to reach there.But if he gets back to his old form he can surely match Ponting of that era.It's quite similar to claims like ABD matching Viv or Sachin in odis.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ponting also failed in India. Technically, that should equal Kohli's failures in England? Or non-subcontinent batsmen failing against spin doesnt count against them, but a subcontinent batman failing in NZ/SA/Aus/Eng are called FTB?

Obviously Kohli has time to rectify his

I completely agree with this.Ponting failure in India = Kohli failure in England but Kohli needs to performs beastly everywhere else.

 

[Berserk_Marshal_]

You're expecting Kohli to keep on improving from here on out and that is not a given. Especially in ODIs, where he peaked in the time-period you have given. Sure, he may end up joining Kane Williamson, Joe Root and Steve Smith as one of the best batsman in the world, moving forward, however, comparing him to a bona-fide ATG like Ricky Ponting, at this stage in his career, only sets him up for ridicule.

Kohli is not Ponting and thus, his career trajectory will not follow Ponting's own. For all we know, he may go the Saqlain Mushtaq route and end up toothless by the time he is 30.

It's not irrational because we, as per the premise of this thread aren't comparing Ponting's whole career to what Kohli has achieved thus far. The point is - according to the data available to us at this moment, there is no reason to think that Kohli can't match up to Ponting, you only judge on the basis of what you know, not what you speculate.

You rightly mentioned Kohli's inadequacies but that's expected of ANY great player, even Bradman is scrutinized for his performances on sticky wickets. Ponting was averaging 12 in India after making 4 tours to it. Kohli, comparatively has a lot of time in that regard to set the record straight in the countries he hasn't been upto the mark in.

Also, I think Kohli shouldn't be compared to Smith, Williamson and Root as young batsmen. Kohli is much more experienced than any of them all formats considered. He is pretty much past the nascent phase of his career and is very well into the middle phase, in which case a lean patch somewhere is not only understandable but somewhat justifiable as well. Sachin's career was ended by the media uncountable times, the earliest of which I remember was in 2003 when he had a horrible lean patch in Tests. I would much rather put my money on Kohli being a 10000 runs+ both formats player at this stage than being a massive underachiever like Saqlain.

 

[giri26]

Ponting had potential but was a decent/good batsmen in the 90's. Lots of people here started watching cricket after 2000's have no idea. Ponting was decent player in the 90's. Did not do anything great. His peak stared only after he completed like 7 years in international cricket. In the 90's there were only 4 greats Steve Waugh, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara and Graham Gooch. No one else came close to these 4 in the 90's in terms of performance and skill. So Kohli is about the same time when Ponting's career took off.

Ponting was a good player with potential till his first 52 tests averaging 44.19 with 9 hundreds. Kohli has 11 test hundreds. It is from now on we need to see if his career takes off like Ponting did. The reason I fail to rate Ponting, Sanga and others starting from post 2002 in the same class as Tendulkar, Lara and Waugh is because the bowling standards had decreased very much. except for few bowlers here and there, All countries had regressed. England possibly was the only team with good bowling attack from the ones they had in the 90's. SA after Donald's retirement had Pollock but he was in his last legs, Nitini and others weren't great. Steyn came later. England bowling was good in England but not away.

Waqar and Wasim weren't the same. Shoaib, Asif and Aamir did not play enough to trouble. WI, well nothing more to say about them. India never had good attack except for home where Pointing was a disaster. I am not saying Ponting isn't great but we are comparing someone who played 41 tests to someone who played 168 tests. And people here were talking as if Ponting was a world beater after 41 tests himself. The answer is no, he wasn't. I watched cricket through the 90's and as I said except for 4 players I mentioned above, no one was great in the 90's, period. Only those 4 averaged 50 and the rest were good/decent at the best.

 

[Mobashir]

Ponting had potential but was a decent/good batsmen in the 90's. Lots of people here started watching cricket after 2000's have no idea. Ponting was decent player in the 90's. Did not do anything great. His peak stared only after he completed like 7 years in international cricket. In the 90's there were only 4 greats Steve Waugh, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara and Graham Gooch. No one else came close to these 4 in the 90's in terms of performance and skill. So Kohli is about the same time when Ponting's career took off.

Agree.

But comparing the late 90's average of 44 with the 2010-2015 years is a joke.
Kohli will hardly make a best young eleven team now a days, in the midle order you will have :
Williamson
Root
Smith
Stokes/Rahane/Kohli/

At best Kohli can make a case of best current indian batsman.

 

[giri26]

Agree.

But comparing the late 90's average of 44 with the 2010-2015 years is a joke.
Kohli will hardly make a best young eleven team now a days, in the midle order you will have :
Williamson
Root
Smith
Stokes/Rahane/Kohli/

At best Kohli can make a case of best current indian batsman.

I am not comparing him with Ponting...We have seen in past that some players take a long time to establish. I will give Kohli the benefit of doubt since he has the potential to succeed. But again at this point I will call him as decent/good player. If he kicks on from here then he has the potential to become great.

 

[Bilal7]

He has already won many games for India in odis and has played lots of match winning knocks. Obviously, no one is saying that he is better than ponting already. He has long way to go to reach there.But if he gets back to his old form he can surely match Ponting of that era.It's quite similar to claims like ABD matching Viv or Sachin in odis.

Ponting is a multi-time WC winner and he had a big hand to play in many of those wins. He didn't pad his stats by bashing Sri Lanka all around the world but actually played several outstanding innings against good bowlers on difficult pitches.

If you think he has a long way to go, then why did you say that he already achieved "much more than ponting" (sic)? Are you kidding me?

ABD is a level above Kohli in ODIs and he's actually performed in both the main formats. Comparing and calling him better than Viv and Sachin is perfectly justifiable.

It's not irrational because we, as per the premise of this thread aren't comparing Ponting's whole career to what Kohli has achieved thus far. The point is - according to the data available to us at this moment, there is no reason to think that Kohli can't match up to Ponting, you only judge on the basis of what you know, not what you speculate.

You rightly mentioned Kohli's inadequacies but that's expected of ANY great player, even Bradman is scrutinized for his performances on sticky wickets. Ponting was averaging 12 in India after making 4 tours to it. Kohli, comparatively has a lot of time in that regard to set the record straight in the countries he hasn't been upto the mark in.

Also, I think Kohli shouldn't be compared to Smith, Williamson and Root as young batsmen. Kohli is much more experienced than any of them all formats considered. He is pretty much past the nascent phase of his career and is very well into the middle phase, in which case a lean patch somewhere is not only understandable but somewhat justifiable as well. Sachin's career was ended by the media uncountable times, the earliest of which I remember was in 2003 when he had a horrible lean patch in Tests. I would much rather put my money on Kohli being a 10000 runs+ both formats player at this stage than being a massive underachiever like Saqlain.

Good post. I don't agree with it but it is nice to see someone taking the time to write a mature, coherent response.

Is is speculation when we only compare Ponting's first 40 matches to Kohli's entire career, thus far. We cannot assume that Kohli will improve and have that seven year dream run like Ponting did, nor can we assume that Kohli will iron out his flaws and improve.

What we know is that Ponting is a bonafide ATG, while Kohli hasn't shown the ability to become one, as of yet. This is why a comparison like this one is silly, especially when you have some posters saying that Kohli has already achieved more than Ponting did, in ODIs.

 

[Abhilash93]

Fact is in Test cricket Root has won England test series and matches.

By and large Kohli's runs havent played the significant part in test wins. So for that I owuld give Root more points.

I respect your overall opinion but this logic is terribly flawed.

If India had the luxury of playing with English fast bowlers in their team, then Kohlis runs would played greater part in wins.

Lara's runs do not get any lesser points than Ponting or SRT because they did not come in wins.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Totally valid to compare the two on batting skills alone. Kohli has the talent to one day rack up the record Ponting has.

However, the comparison shouldn't be extended to captaincy, wins, results. Ponting had the luxury of an attack boasting, Warne, McGrath and countless other bowling champs. Kohli has a rubbish fast bowling attack, and one good spinner (Ashwin). His best chance to win will be at home on square turners, e.g. against South Africa recently.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ponting is a multi-time WC winner and he had a big hand to play in many of those wins. He didn't pad his stats by bashing Sri Lanka all around the world but actually played several outstanding innings against good bowlers on difficult pitches.

If you think he has a long way to go, then why did you say that he already achieved "much more than ponting" (sic)? Are you kidding me?

ABD is a level above Kohli in ODIs and he's actually performed in both the main formats. Comparing and calling him better than Viv and Sachin is perfectly justifiable.



Good post. I don't agree with it but it is nice to see someone taking the time to write a mature, coherent response.

Is is speculation when we only compare Ponting's first 40 matches to Kohli's entire career, thus far. We cannot assume that Kohli will improve and have that seven year dream run like Ponting did, nor can we assume that Kohli will iron out his flaws and improve.

What we know is that Ponting is a bonafide ATG, while Kohli hasn't shown the ability to become one, as of yet. This is why a comparison like this one is silly, especially when you have some posters saying that Kohli has already achieved more than Ponting did, in ODIs.

Damm..It seems u took my statement in a completely wrong way.I meant at age of 26,kohli acheived more than Ponting did at same age i.e at 26..Its a common sense that a bonafide ATG like Ponting can't be surpassed so easily.However,a comparison between the two is pretty valid in odis.

 

[Ab Fan]

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION],I was typing quickly and might have missed saying Ponting at age of 26..I didn't thought one would take it that way.Ponting is among five greatest odi bats of all time. C'mon,its pretty obvious that kohli still has long way to go to reach there..But as you said he had shown ability like that,so a comparison is pretty valid...

 

[ChachaCricket]

Kohli can't play bounce like Ponting. The latter is one of the three greatest hookers/Pullers to ever play the game, the other two being Viv and AB.

Attitude wise, they're similar. Kohli will be a great captain.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I think Ponting faced better bowlers than Kohli for sure. Ponting has a very good record against England in England whereas Kohli was exposed like a shell shocked school boy by Anderson.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Even if the thing that is held against Ponting is the fact he was given a hospital pass by Steve Waugh and inherited a powerful playing 11-15 who could have easily captained themselves, it still takes some doing to hold 11-15 egos together and command respect.