Is what is happening in the elections in USA (2020) a great endorsement for democracy, or a shame?

[MenInG]

I heard a TV commentator saying what is happening in the USA is what makes democracy such a good thing - but do you agree with that assessment ?

 

[Robert]

I heard a TV commentator saying what is happening in the USA is what makes democracy such a good thing - but do you agree with that assessment ?

Yes. The state legislators are refusing to buckle under legal bullying pressure from the sitting President and continuing to count the votes to get accurate results.

 

[Manunited18]

Usa is a vaining power with little credibility.

 

[MenInG]

I suppose the fact that this is the highest turnout ever shows what a great thing this is- but I am not sure about how the way this is being conducted is good.

 

[IMMY69]

Amazing...

Look at the number of postal ballots, during a pandemic with high numbers of infections..
Yet they carry on counting.

 

[Firebat]

In my opinion this has exposed the logistical flaws in the USA's system specifically. Hearing people try to explain why its taking so long is quite embarrassing to be honest. This county uses machines to count but that county uses humans, this state can't open mail in ballots yet whereas that state counted them first. A consequence of having state governments I'm sure, but I can't understand why, at least for such a nationwide event such as voting in a president, the system is so disjointed.

Take into account some of the voting lines being hours and hours long, and it suddenly starts to make more sense why the USA have generally one of the lowest voter turnouts in the developed world.

 

[JaDed]

Yes showing Institutions matter more than cult!

 

[Varun]

Trump has been a motormouth a bit - nothing new in that - but barring that what has gone wrong?

 

[Savak]

In the complete interest of fairness and transparency, i want all the mail in ballots in all the states to be thoroughly audited for validity and legality and whether they actually belong to an elligible voter or not so that there are zero question marks on the fairness of the election at the end of the day

 

[JaDed]

In the complete interest of fairness and transparency, i want all the mail in ballots in all the states to be thoroughly audited for validity and legality and whether they actually belong to an elligible voter or not so that there are zero question marks on the fairness of the election at the end of the day

lol ok your highness

 

[MenInG]

There is no evidence of compromised ballots or corrupt voting systems in the United States presidential elections, officials said, as a top Democrat accused the Republicans who refuse to accept President-elect Joe Biden’s win of “poisoning” democracy.

In a statement on Thursday, senior US federal and state election officials rejected President Donald Trump’s claims of fraud, saying “the November 3 election was the most secure in American history”.

The statement came hours after Trump once again cried foul, retweeting a baseless claim that an election equipment maker “deleted” 2.7 million votes for him nationwide.

“There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,” said the statement issued by the Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council, a public-private umbrella group under the primary federal election security body, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA).

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too,” the statement said.

It was signed by the heads of the National Association of State Election Directors and the National Association of Secretaries of State – the officials who manage elections at the state level – and by the chairman of the US Election Assistance Commission.

‘Poisoning the well of democracy’
With most Republican legislators having yet to acknowledge Biden’s win, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, the chamber’s top Democrat, accused them on Thursday of “denying reality” and “auditioning for profiles in cowardice.”

“Instead of working to pull the country back together so that we can fight our common enemy COVID-19, Republicans in Congress are spreading conspiracy theories, denying reality and poisoning the well of our democracy,” he said.

Play Video
Trump’s retweet, which in addition to claiming 2.7 million “deleted” votes, also said hundreds of thousands of votes had been switched from him to Biden in Pennsylvania and other states.

It was the latest in a series of bogus assertions Trump and the Republicans have put forth in order to reject Biden’s victory.

Republican legislators such as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have stood firm with Trump by supporting his refusal to concede and backing his legal challenges.

Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday demanded the Republicans stop what she called an “absurd circus” and turn to fighting the coronavirus pandemic.

“Now that the people have expressed their views, Joe Biden has won [and] Kamala Harris will be the first woman vice president of the United States,” Pelosi said.

Political experts believe Republicans may be invoking such a strategy as a way to rile up Trump’s base before two US Senate runoff elections in Georgia that will determine which party controls the chamber.

A total of 161 former national security officials, including some who worked with Trump, additionally warned the current administration’s continued delay in recognising Biden’s victory is posing “a serious risk to national security”.

In a letter, the group, including ex-Pentagon chief Chuck Hagel and Trump’s former National Security Council senior counterterrorism director Javed Ali, urged General Services Administration chief Emily Murphy to recognise Biden as the apparent president-elect.

Without a GSA signoff, transition funds and other resources including access to intelligence briefings cannot flow to Biden and his team, but Murphy has refused to budge.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/13/us-election-officials-say-no-evidence-of-compromised-votes

 

[Gayle_Force]

What Trump is doing is not so bad because this is demonstrating how little power he has to overturn an election even as a sitting president.

What this entire process has exposed again is how much of a sham Electoral college is.

You have a candidate who won popular vote by a margin of over 5 million, however, the margin in key states is only about 300k votes. If those 300k votes went the other way Biden could have easily lost even though he has the highest margin of victory in popular votes in history.

 

[Technics 1210]

Both.

They can count 160M votes during a break of America's Got Talent, but this is turning out to be a horror show.

Forget mail-in votes, even the electronic machines have glitched in the past etc. In some states where the vote is an actual ballot, voters have to punch a hole in the voting card etc.

The entire voting and counting system is inconsistent in the USA because each State has the power to do as it pleases.

I mean, what's the point of a popular vote when it doesn't count for anything?

Watch the movie 'Recount' - based on 2000 election.

In a country where voting in not a right but a privledge, then the system is open to corruption.

 

[Madplayer]

Like any other system, democracy has big loopholes which were bound to be exploited when conditions for exploitation became mature. In such conditions, it just gives people an illusion of choice with crony capitalists and powerful politicians running a racket in an airtight situation where every institution looks to maintain status quo of exploitation as long as it secures its own interests. This system will also fall like every other that came before it. And then the next one will also fall. As a nation or people, you just have to be in the right place when it happens.

 

[Stewie]

In my opinion this has exposed the logistical flaws in the USA's system specifically. Hearing people try to explain why its taking so long is quite embarrassing to be honest. This county uses machines to count but that county uses humans, this state can't open mail in ballots yet whereas that state counted them first. A consequence of having state governments I'm sure, but I can't understand why, at least for such a nationwide event such as voting in a president, the system is so disjointed.

Take into account some of the voting lines being hours and hours long, and it suddenly starts to make more sense why the USA have generally one of the lowest voter turnouts in the developed world.

The system is not disjointed, it is flexible.

One of the greatest things about democracy in America, they want to make sure every voice is heard and everybody is accommodated, whether you want to vote in person, over mail, absentee, from overseas, etc.

Now this may seem disjointed but tell me how many countries go to such lengths to ensure the rights of all their citizenry is fulfilled. It’s something to be proud of. Yes it will take time to count them, but it’s a fair sacrifice.

And I think it’s great that the people have rejected demagoguery and populism so many other countries in this day and age of social media and fake news fell for.

Yes I am looking at UK, India, etc.

Americans realized this president for what he is and rejected him. It is a great moment and a lesson for most nations. Look at the turnout we had!

 

[KingKhanWC]

The system is not disjointed, it is flexible.

One of the greatest things about democracy in America, they want to make sure every voice is heard and everybody is accommodated, whether you want to vote in person, over mail, absentee, from overseas, etc.

Now this may seem disjointed but tell me how many countries go to such lengths to ensure the rights of all their citizenry is fulfilled. It’s something to be proud of. Yes it will take time to count them, but it’s a fair sacrifice.

And I think it’s great that the people have rejected demagoguery and populism so many other countries in this day and age of social media and fake news fell for.

Yes I am looking at UK, India, etc.

Americans realized this president for what he is and rejected him. It is a great moment and a lesson for most nations. Look at the turnout we had!

Its flawed, you can lose the election even if you have 3-5 million more people voting for you.

Its also flawed because you have two parties who arent much different from each other in reality, they just talk differently but both are puppets of powerful lobbies and co-operations.

From the outside, its nice to see the US imploding within, the world will be a better place when this country no longer is the worlds strongest and biggest power. The decline is in motion.

 

[Technics 1210]

Its flawed, you can lose the election even if you have 3-5 million more people voting for you.

Its also flawed because you have two parties who arent much different from each other in reality, they just talk differently but both are puppets of powerful lobbies and co-operations.

From the outside, its nice to see the US imploding within, the world will be a better place when this country no longer is the worlds strongest and biggest power. The decline is in motion.

AIPAC
Big Pharma
Banking Cartel
Gun lobby
Religious lobby

The collective political force in the USA. The voters are deluded thinking their vote would ever make a difference.

 

[KingKhanWC]

AIPAC
Big Pharma
Banking Cartel
Gun lobby
Religious lobby

The collective political force in the USA. The voters are deluded thinking their vote would ever make a difference.

Its pretty funny some think Harris is somehow anti-racist and a new liberal who will defend the rights of the oppressed etc.

Harris ONLY got the ticket because she begged AIPAC.

Zionsim rules American policy as it does with most of Europe too.

If Americans were smart they would ALL refuse to vote in order to change their corrupt system.

 

[Nadeemp]

No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

In the complete interest of fairness and transparency, i want all the mail in ballots in all the states to be thoroughly audited for validity and legality and whether they actually belong to an elligible voter or not so that there are zero question marks on the fairness of the election at the end of the day

you got it captain !

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

Both.

They can count 160M votes during a break of America's Got Talent, but this is turning out to be a horror show.

Forget mail-in votes, even the electronic machines have glitched in the past etc. In some states where the vote is an actual ballot, voters have to punch a hole in the voting card etc.

The entire voting and counting system is inconsistent in the USA because each State has the power to do as it pleases.

I mean, what's the point of a popular vote when it doesn't count for anything?

Watch the movie 'Recount' - based on 2000 election.

In a country where voting in not a right but a privledge, then the system is open to corruption.

Are you purposely trying to be obtuse ? Gaslighting can only get you so far . Try again with you american idol comment .

 

[Technics 1210]

You don't this sort of debacle in the UK. Simple paper, put a x, and count. Perhaps the UK is the last known democracy.

 

[Stewie]

Its flawed, you can lose the election even if you have 3-5 million more people voting for you.

Its also flawed because you have two parties who arent much different from each other in reality, they just talk differently but both are puppets of powerful lobbies and co-operations.

From the outside, its nice to see the US imploding within, the world will be a better place when this country no longer is the worlds strongest and biggest power. The decline is in motion.

From that aspect, you can make a case, but I was addressing firebat’s comment about the disjointed system.

Like every system, they have their flaws but you have to understand, it’s not a true democracy, it’s a republic system, which has its pros and cons.

 

[Giannis]

Democracy is a new system, most countries had kingdoms and empires until not too long ago, authoritarianism was the normal order perhaps natural to humans - that said, democracy is the only system that works right now.

 

[MenInG]

Violence has marred a day of protest in Washington after thousands turned out in a show of support for Donald Trump.

Twenty people were arrested and at least one stabbing was reported as Trump supporters clashed with counter protesters in Washington.

 

[Firebat]

Million MAGA March: Thousands of pro-Trump protesters rally in Washington DC

Thousands of supporters of US President Donald Trump turned out in Washington DC to back his unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud in the election.

Flag-carrying demonstrators were joined by members of far-right groups including the Proud Boys, some wearing helmets and bullet-proof vests.

The largely peaceful demonstration saw some violence later in the evening, as Trump supporters and counter-protesters clashed in several skirmishes.

Joe Biden won the 3 November election.

On Friday, he solidified his victory with a projected win in the state of Georgia - making him the first Democratic candidate to take the state since 1992.

He now has 306 votes in the electoral college - the system the US uses to choose its president - which far exceeds the 270 threshold to win.

However, Mr Trump has so far refused to concede. He has launched a flurry of legal challenges in key states and made unsubstantiated allegations of widespread electoral fraud - but his efforts have so far been unsuccessful.

Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54945154

 

[sweep_shot]

It is definitely not an endorsement for democracy. This is a circus show.

It shows how unprofessional politics (along with many other things) has become in United States.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Its flawed, you can lose the election even if you have 3-5 million more people voting for you.

Its also flawed because you have two parties who arent much different from each other in reality, they just talk differently but both are puppets of powerful lobbies and co-operations.

From the outside, its nice to see the US imploding within, the world will be a better place when this country no longer is the worlds strongest and biggest power. The decline is in motion.

Is there any specific information or data you are privy to that shows the US is in decline? By all accounts, the US remains the world's dominant economic, military and social power. This last one may seem surprising given recent events, but at least issues of social injustice and discrimination get talked about and protested at in the US, rather than swept under the rug in most parts of the world.

Who do you see as a challenger to the US? China? India? Russia? Europe is pretty much a 19th century museum that hasn't mattered in decades (the UK is the US's lapdog). For your preferred disposition of religiosity, there's nowhere as free as the US to practice anything you want.

Very strange to see constant messages proclaiming the downfall of the US, without any substantiation.

 

[JaDed]

Is there any specific information or data you are privy to that shows the US is in decline? By all accounts, the US remains the world's dominant economic, military and social power. This last one may seem surprising given recent events, but at least issues of social injustice and discrimination get talked about and protested at in the US, rather than swept under the rug in most parts of the world.

Who do you see as a challenger to the US? China? India? Russia? Europe is pretty much a 19th century museum that hasn't mattered in decades (the UK is the US's lapdog). For your preferred disposition of religiosity, there's nowhere as free as the US to practice anything you want.

Very strange to see constant messages proclaiming the downfall of the US, without any substantiation.

No point questioning him you will end up in loops, better to wait for 10 years and see the result, everyone said the same darn thing in 2008, and US made EU insignificant in the last 10 years taking away Nokia, Siemens and dominating not only big tech, Hardware designs but social media as well, even EV Tesla is well ahead of others.

Europe is considering 4 day week now lol..

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...me-for-four-day-week-say-european-politicians

 

[Third_Umpire]

No point questioning him you will end up in loops, better to wait for 10 years and see the result, everyone said the same darn thing in 2008, and US made EU insignificant in the last 10 years taking away Nokia, Siemens and dominating not only big tech, Hardware designs but social media as well, even EV Tesla is well ahead of others.

Europe is considering 4 day week now lol..

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...me-for-four-day-week-say-european-politicians

Europe is not even in the conversation, nor does it want to be. It’s leaders and citizens are happy being an artifact and fair play to that. I love visiting Europe, it’s beautiful.

I’m just curious as to who exactly is gaining ground on the US, and why the US is destined to fail. Nothing at the macro level suggests this.

 

[Stewie]

Europe is not even in the conversation, nor does it want to be. It’s leaders and citizens are happy being an artifact and fair play to that. I love visiting Europe, it’s beautiful.

I’m just curious as to who exactly is gaining ground on the US, and why the US is destined to fail. Nothing at the macro level suggests this.

While it’s not all doom and gloom, youhabe to be pretty blind to not see some of the issues. The political divisions have deepened. Both the right and the left have taken a turn for the extreme. There is no unity and both factions are completely willing to kill each other. The country is in a lot of debt due to pointless wars and China owns it all. China currently holds all the cards. On top of that Russia is secretly and quite effectively sowing seeds of destruction in the naive American society.

It’s pretty bad and intolerant. I think it will take years to truly prove US is on a downward spiral but the way it is at the moment, shouldn’t incite any confidence.

 

[Third_Umpire]

While it’s not all doom and gloom, youhabe to be pretty blind to not see some of the issues. The political divisions have deepened. Both the right and the left have taken a turn for the extreme. There is no unity and both factions are completely willing to kill each other. The country is in a lot of debt due to pointless wars and China owns it all. China currently holds all the cards. On top of that Russia is secretly and quite effectively sowing seeds of destruction in the naive American society.

It’s pretty bad and intolerant. I think it will take years to truly prove US is on a downward spiral but the way it is at the moment, shouldn’t incite any confidence.

Yes there is a deep political divide, however if I think about rivals to the US for global hegemony, don’t you think each have more severe issues?

China is still an opaque, authoritarian regime whose economic success masks a suppressed society. Who knows what issues the average Chinese person has and when/how they’ll come to bare? Readers of this forum have to be less than impressed at how the Chinese government is treating Muslims, if that’s their MO then they are clearly not prepare for any sort of global leadership. And what exactly do you think China will do will all that US debt it owns? I don’t see a realistic scenario of them exercising it. Russia is probably even more opaque than China. It’s influence is overstated. It meddles in US elections because it cares to, not because of any technological advantage. Who knows what US meddles into as far as Russia is concerned , we will never know because Russia is a black box.

What’s happening in the US is a public showing of what ha existed for centuries under the wrap: racism and ideological divide. And it exists everywhere in the world. The only way to solve a problem is to confront it, see how ugly it is, probably get damaged by it, and then repair and recover. America is early in that journey. Others are mostly oblivious to what their issues are and are in for similar rude awakenings.

 

[miandadrules]

Is there any specific information or data you are privy to that shows the US is in decline? By all accounts, the US remains the world's dominant economic, military and social power. This last one may seem surprising given recent events, but at least issues of social injustice and discrimination get talked about and protested at in the US, rather than swept under the rug in most parts of the world.

Who do you see as a challenger to the US? China? India? Russia? Europe is pretty much a 19th century museum that hasn't mattered in decades (the UK is the US's lapdog). For your preferred disposition of religiosity, there's nowhere as free as the US to practice anything you want.

Very strange to see constant messages proclaiming the downfall of the US, without any substantiation.

Chomsky in American power and the new mandarins theorised how power would become distributed.

That was in the late 60s.

 

[srh]

USA democracy is a fraud. It is controlled by big money and special interest groups who let sheep believe they are free.

 

[Indiafan]

In the complete interest of fairness and transparency, i want all the mail in ballots in all the states to be thoroughly audited for validity and legality and whether they actually belong to an elligible voter or not so that there are zero question marks on the fairness of the election at the end of the day

Those checks and balances are already there and the votes are counted in the presence of representatives of both parties

 

[Indiafan]

While it’s not all doom and gloom, youhabe to be pretty blind to not see some of the issues. The political divisions have deepened. Both the right and the left have taken a turn for the extreme. There is no unity and both factions are completely willing to kill each other. The country is in a lot of debt due to pointless wars and China owns it all. China currently holds all the cards. On top of that Russia is secretly and quite effectively sowing seeds of destruction in the naive American society.

It’s pretty bad and intolerant. I think it will take years to truly prove US is on a downward spiral but the way it is at the moment, shouldn’t incite any confidence.

nah bith sideism simply doesn't work here. Most of thr domestic terrorists caught were all righ wings. You know if biden had won he would have gracefully conceded and not lied and spread conspiracy theories. Even today he is claling for unity

This was only and only because of Trump. Once he is gone, a lot of things will settle down

 

[Thomaskutty]

USA democracy is a fraud. It is controlled by big money and special interest groups who let sheep believe they are free.

This claim no longer holds true after Trumpism. Trump won the 2016 election despite being vastly outspent by Hillary. All you need to be is a populist disruptor and touch on the right issues with the voters and you can easily bypass the establishment and big money.

 

[ahsan17]

This claim no longer holds true after Trumpism. Trump won the 2016 election despite being vastly outspent by Hillary. All you need to be is a populist disruptor and touch on the right issues with the voters and you can easily bypass the establishment and big money.

But after getting elected, he ended up being a standard republican being beholden to billionaires and corporations. Just compare his 2016 campaign with 2020 campaign. 2016 campaign was about jobs being shipped out to China and Mexico, big money controlling the US politics, etc. 2020 campaign was about socialism, Hunter Biden, etc. Says it all really.

And on the democratic side, you can thank the mainstream media for handing Biden the victory over Bernie by constantly misleading the US public or lying to them about Bernie.

 

[Thomaskutty]

But after getting elected, he ended up being a standard republican being beholden to billionaires and corporations.

Not really. He kept the base happy by appointing conservative supreme court judges but he was mostly his own man. He broke off from the establishment with some signature steps like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, raising tariffs on China or not engaging in any new wars. I genuinely think he could have passed health care reform if he was interested in it. With his social media presence, he could have just bullied the GOP house and senate members into towing the line and voting for health care along with the democrats.
The 2020 election was more of a referendum on his personality/reckless behaviour than his policies. Also, the pandemic didn't help.

And on the democratic side, you can thank the mainstream media for handing Biden the victory over Bernie by constantly misleading the US public or lying to them about Bernie.

Dem establishment was against Bernie but at the end of the day, the US is still a centre-right/centre-left country and not enough Dem voters are as progressive left as Bernie. That's why he lost.

 

[Robert]

Not really. He kept the base happy by appointing conservative supreme court judges but he was mostly his own man. He broke off from the establishment with some signature steps like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, raising tariffs on China or not engaging in any new wars. I genuinely think he could have passed health care reform if he was interested in it. With his social media presence, he could have just bullied the GOP house and senate members into towing the line and voting for health care along with the democrats.
The 2020 election was more of a referendum on his personality/reckless behaviour than his policies. Also, the pandemic didn't help.



Dem establishment was against Bernie but at the end of the day, the US is still a centre-right/centre-left country and not enough Dem voters are as progressive left as Bernie. That's why he lost.

I’d say these days the split is centre-right / authoritarian hard right. The US doesn’t have a left that I can discern, though a few like Sanders might be European-style social democrats.

 

[James]

Disagree [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]. Although Biden is economically centre-right, his social platform is very much one of the left.

 

[Robert]

Disagree [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]. Although Biden is economically centre-right, his social platform is very much one of the left.

I don’t see how social policy can be left, the right and left axis refers to economic policy. Pure state-planned economy one end, laissez-faire the other.

 

[ahsan17]

Not really. He kept the base happy by appointing conservative supreme court judges but he was mostly his own man. He broke off from the establishment with some signature steps like moving the embassy to Jerusalem, raising tariffs on China or not engaging in any new wars. I genuinely think he could have passed health care reform if he was interested in it. With his social media presence, he could have just bullied the GOP house and senate members into towing the line and voting for health care along with the democrats.
The 2020 election was more of a referendum on his personality/reckless behaviour than his policies. Also, the pandemic didn't help.



Dem establishment was against Bernie but at the end of the day, the US is still a centre-right/centre-left country and not enough Dem voters are as progressive left as Bernie. That's why he lost.

I’d say these days the split is centre-right / authoritarian hard right. The US doesn’t have a left that I can discern, though a few like Sanders might be European-style social democrats.

Disagree [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]. Although Biden is economically centre-right, his social platform is very much one of the left.

I don’t see how social policy can be left, the right and left axis refers to economic policy. Pure state-planned economy one end, laissez-faire the other.

At least to me, the left and right spectrum includes both social/cultural and economic issues. But I do think social/cultural issues need to be (mostly) divorced from economic issues because the former is used to distract from the latter, and public in the US tend to be far more liberal on the latter than the former. The democratic party is a neo-liberal party, which means they are left on social/cultural issues and right wing on economic issues. With that being said, I think there are some misconceptions about the US on the left/right split.

When it comes to economic issues, despite what you might think from the US media and US politicians, left wing economic policies such as single payer healthcare, $15 minimum wage, free university etc are very popular. Single payer healthcare gets anywhere from 60-70% support depending on which poll you look at. Minimum wage and free university have high majority support as well. The democratic party, unfortunately, is largely driven by its donor class who are billionaires and corporations. The donor class effectively sets the platform for the democratic party.

Sanders was showing beating Trump as good or better than Biden in head to head polls in the primaries. But the US media (also owned by billionaires and corporations) ran a huge campaign telling voters that Bernie could never beat Trump because of "socialism" messaging republicans would use against Bernie. Of course they still used that messaging against Biden, and it tends to not make a difference anymore because that term has lost any meaning in the US by now.

Don't forget the role Obama played in Bernie losing by getting all the centrist candidates to drop out while Warren (the other progressive candidate) didn't drop out.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Is there any specific information or data you are privy to that shows the US is in decline? By all accounts, the US remains the world's dominant economic, military and social power. This last one may seem surprising given recent events, but at least issues of social injustice and discrimination get talked about and protested at in the US, rather than swept under the rug in most parts of the world.

Who do you see as a challenger to the US? China? India? Russia? Europe is pretty much a 19th century museum that hasn't mattered in decades (the UK is the US's lapdog). For your preferred disposition of religiosity, there's nowhere as free as the US to practice anything you want.

Very strange to see constant messages proclaiming the downfall of the US, without any substantiation.

Plenty and I assumed this would be obvious.

Debt
Danger of Petrodollar ending soon.
Civil unrest between right wingers, liberals , blacks.
Handling of pandemics.
Lose of repuation around the world.
Defeat in Afghanistan.

THis isnt my claim , many academics have said the same. Even Pew did a report 2 months ago in regards to US image around the world in serious decline.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Plenty and I assumed this would be obvious.

Debt
Danger of Petrodollar ending soon.
Civil unrest between right wingers, liberals , blacks.
Handling of pandemics.
Lose of repuation around the world.
Defeat in Afghanistan.

THis isnt my claim , many academics have said the same. Even Pew did a report 2 months ago in regards to US image around the world in serious decline.

Not obvious at all to the neutral reader, to the extent you describe. Hard not to think you have an agenda-driven POV.

- Debt: what is the practical risk you foresee here? Do you think China is going to exercise this debt, and if so what do you think the ramifications might be? It is common practice for countries to purchase sovereign debt, US debt would get purchased in the market. More profound impact would be to China's fluctuating currency.

- Civil unrest: certainly a concern, but a much needed moment of reckoning. Things get worse before they get better, and the difficult conversations being had in the US are what's needed to identify the ugliness in this society and address it. Would you rather live in a country that confronts its problems, or one where it's masked over and never addressed? You live in the UK, you should know what the latter feels like. There is little hope for assimilation of immigrants in the UK, you may be living proof of that with your calls for Shariah.

- Handling of pandemic: So hard to know the true picture by country, as a lot depends on testing and reporting. The US has done a poor job of handing the pandemic, but is also the first to create two vaccines that will hopefully help the rest of the world. We have no idea what the quality of testing and reporting is in other parts of the world...do you honestly believe countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh have contained Covid better than the US as the data suggests? Feels like most of the world doesn't even know how bad it is. In any case, this feels like a tenuous point to predict the downfall of the US

- Loss of reputation: subjective, probably amplified in your world view.

- Defeat in Afghanistan: same as above. In the aggregate, good for the US to get out.

The US may be going through a sobering moment, but it's not all bad. Most importantly, who do you think is overtaking the US, and why? China, Russia, India? It's entirely possible that the US weakens but remains the dominant force in geopolitics.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not obvious at all to the neutral reader, to the extent you describe. Hard not to think you have an agenda-driven POV.

- Debt: what is the practical risk you foresee here? Do you think China is going to exercise this debt, and if so what do you think the ramifications might be? It is common practice for countries to purchase sovereign debt, US debt would get purchased in the market. More profound impact would be to China's fluctuating currency.

- Civil unrest: certainly a concern, but a much needed moment of reckoning. Things get worse before they get better, and the difficult conversations being had in the US are what's needed to identify the ugliness in this society and address it. Would you rather live in a country that confronts its problems, or one where it's masked over and never addressed? You live in the UK, you should know what the latter feels like. There is little hope for assimilation of immigrants in the UK, you may be living proof of that with your calls for Shariah.

- Handling of pandemic: So hard to know the true picture by country, as a lot depends on testing and reporting. The US has done a poor job of handing the pandemic, but is also the first to create two vaccines that will hopefully help the rest of the world. We have no idea what the quality of testing and reporting is in other parts of the world...do you honestly believe countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh have contained Covid better than the US as the data suggests? Feels like most of the world doesn't even know how bad it is. In any case, this feels like a tenuous point to predict the downfall of the US

- Loss of reputation: subjective, probably amplified in your world view.

- Defeat in Afghanistan: same as above. In the aggregate, good for the US to get out.

The US may be going through a sobering moment, but it's not all bad. Most importantly, who do you think is overtaking the US, and why? China, Russia, India? It's entirely possible that the US weakens but remains the dominant force in geopolitics.

I dont have an agenda, I just hate the Yanks for the terrorism around the world, destorying nations, bombing children to controlling world markets etc.

I would go into detail but we only to need to focus on one aspect which you have ignorned. The petrodollar will collapse and with it the American dollar. China of course will take over.

 

[Technics 1210]

Plenty and I assumed this would be obvious.

Debt
Danger of Petrodollar ending soon.
Civil unrest between right wingers, liberals , blacks.
Handling of pandemics.
Lose of repuation around the world.
Defeat in Afghanistan.

THis isnt my claim , many academics have said the same. Even Pew did a report 2 months ago in regards to US image around the world in serious decline.

Yup. USA has been in steady decline from all fronts, but not since Trump, but from days of RR.

I would also add the rise of China, and Russian power. USA has never gone to war own its own, and will never go to war against a military as large as theirs.

Though the real disintegration is from within USA with racial tensions, political divide, and economic disparity.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I dont have an agenda, I just hate the Yanks for the terrorism around the world, destorying nations, bombing children to controlling world markets etc.

I would go into detail but we only to need to focus on one aspect which you have ignorned. The petrodollar will collapse and with it the American dollar. China of course will take over.

Overlooked the petrodollar point unintentionally, without going into detail it may not be the stick that breaks the camels back either.

Yes the US has a less than desirable humanitarian track record and has triggered many wars. Though I shudder to think what China will do if it ever occupies as much power and influence as the US. With the way they treat their own citizens, I shudder to think what they will do their enemies. Despite what the US does, at least there is room to criticize, question, and challenge its actions from within and outside. Do you foresee a world where China allows the same scrutiny of its actions? Would there free press, judiciary?

 

[MenInG]

Any views changed due to recent events?

 

[Bilal_103]

All I know is Trump has divided America. All these riots and theatrics by trump are not a good look for the states.

 

[MenInG]

Four people died at Capitol

Washington DC police say four people have died during the storming of the Capitol building.

In addition to the woman shot by police, three others died as a result of "medical emergencies".

So far, more than 52 people have been arrested - 47 of them for curfew violations.

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[IndoorCricket]

I visited USA before the pandemic. Really felt like it is a enlightened society. Looking at the recent events I have to change my views.

 

[gani999]

This is pathetic. So much for a country that claims to be the beacon of 'democratic values' all around the world. Even politicians in some tinpot republics step aside and make way without protesting when they lose elections. And this is the USA....

One would like to believe that it is a one-off, and that the average American is still committed to democratic values. But America's reputation is surely going to take a bad beating.

 

[Bigboii]

Warning: Strong Language

Oh this man perfectly describes my feelings on the "efforts" of police in stopping these fat thugs

I mean they barely had 20 people protecting the enterence facing 100s of people

 

[GenericBrand]

^ There was a video where they opened the gates and let them come in, also read some took selfies with the rioters inside the building