Israeli tourists flock to Dubai

[Cpt. Rishwat]

https://www.businessinsider.com/uae...nukah-getaway-from-covid-19-2020-12?r=US&IR=T

Israeli tourists flock to Dubai

It's long been known for its towering skyscrapers, high-end hotels, and mammoth shopping malls.

But now, just months after the signing of a ground-breaking peace deal, Dubai is set to add synagogues, kosher restaurants, and a Jewish school into the mix.

Ever since the Abraham Accords were announced in August – a historic deal that normalized ties between the United Arab Emirates and Israel – Israeli tourists have flocked to the desert nation in unprecedented numbers.

The introduction of easily attainable tourist visas, the existence of a Coronavirus travel corridor, and a boom in kosher provisions have all made Dubai the must-visit hotspot for Israeli tourists.

So much so that airlines have struggled to keep up with demand.

Wow great to see Jewish people finally able to enjoy the beaches of Dubai. Although of course we should condemn them for supporting a nation which has built it's wealth on the back of slave labour from the subcontinent don't you agree? @ Varun [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION].

 

[Mamoon]

Wow great to see Jewish people finally able to enjoy the beaches of Dubai. Although of course we should condemn them for supporting a nation which has built it's wealth on the back of slave labour from the subcontinent don't you agree? @ Varun [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=48598]saeedhk[/MENTION].

They built their nation on the back of the oil reserves that were discovered for them by westerners.

So I don’t see why Israelis will have a problem with how they have exploited the labor class of subcontinent.

Besides, although these people are treated badly, they still make far more money than they would in their home countries where they are not treated like kings anyway.

The Gulf countries have also provided plenty of jobs and work opportunities to South Asians from non-labor class as well, and I am not referring to educated, skilled workers.

Nearly every second taxi driver in Dubai is a Pathan, and they earn very decent money - far, far more than their earning potential in Pakistan. These taxi drivers have spent 10-15 years in Dubai and have earned enough money to build a house in Pakistan and start their own little businesses.

People always focus on how they snatch passports from laborers and cram dozens of them in small apartments, but they always fail to recognize the job opportunities these gulf countries have provided as well.

Dubai is a wonderful, progressive place and it is great to see Israelis flocking there. I hope one day Pakistan will also be mature enough to recognize Israel, but alas.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They built their nation on the back of the oil reserves that were discovered for them by westerners.

So I don’t see why Israelis will have a problem with how they have exploited the labor class of subcontinent.

Besides, although these people are treated badly, they still make far more money than they would in their home countries where they are not treated like kings anyway.

The Gulf countries have also provided plenty of jobs and work opportunities to South Asians from non-labor class as well, and I am not referring to educated, skilled workers.

Nearly every second taxi driver in Dubai is a Pathan, and they earn very decent money - far, far more than their earning potential in Pakistan. These taxi drivers have spent 10-15 years in Dubai and have earned enough money to build a house in Pakistan and start their own little businesses.

People always focus on how they snatch passports from laborers and cram dozens of them in small apartments, but they always fail to recognize the job opportunities these gulf countries have provided as well.

Dubai is a wonderful, progressive place and it is great to see Israelis flocking there. I hope one day Pakistan will also be mature enough to recognize Israel, but alas.

Thanks I made most of these points myself in threads raised by anti-Arab posters who have travelled extensively in the UAE although I am not talking exclusively about any specific Indian poster.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Won't be soon until dubai also turns into the ideal medina state

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Won't be soon until dubai also turns into the ideal medina state

Your user name just reminded me, would love to see the day when I could make an unannouced visit to Kashmir and meet some Indian posters like romalli roti and Varun. Maybe to attend a wedding where the romantic couple haven't had to report to the police before going ahead with the nuptials.

 

[Varun]

Your user name just reminded me, would love to see the day when I could make an unannouced visit to Kashmir and meet some Indian posters like romalli roti and Varun. Maybe to attend a wedding where the romantic couple haven't had to report to the police before going ahead with the nuptials.

You're unlikely to find me anywhere near that pointless brick of ice, but go light on the BBCD accent whomever you meet, if you wish to preserve your financial health and the use of your limbs.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

They built their nation on the back of the oil reserves that were discovered for them by westerners.

So I don’t see why Israelis will have a problem with how they have exploited the labor class of subcontinent.

Besides, although these people are treated badly, they still make far more money than they would in their home countries where they are not treated like kings anyway.

The Gulf countries have also provided plenty of jobs and work opportunities to South Asians from non-labor class as well, and I am not referring to educated, skilled workers.

Nearly every second taxi driver in Dubai is a Pathan, and they earn very decent money - far, far more than their earning potential in Pakistan. These taxi drivers have spent 10-15 years in Dubai and have earned enough money to build a house in Pakistan and start their own little businesses.

People always focus on how they snatch passports from laborers and cram dozens of them in small apartments, but they always fail to recognize the job opportunities these gulf countries have provided as well.

Dubai is a wonderful, progressive place and it is great to see Israelis flocking there. I hope one day Pakistan will also be mature enough to recognize Israel, but alas.

A progressive place where if you criticise the ruler of Dubai you get locked up. I dare you to go to Dubai and pull down the rulers portrait from the wall and post it on SM.

 

[gani999]

A progressive place where if you criticise the ruler of Dubai you get locked up. I dare you to go to Dubai and pull down the rulers portrait from the wall and post it on SM.

No Emirati citizen will ever criticize Sheik Mohammed Rashid Al Makhtoum . He has given them a lifestyle that is the envy of most first world nations and they love him to bits.
As for foreigners in Dubai, it would be silly on their part if they criticize Sheik Mo, knowing fully well what middle eastern sheikdoms are like. When you go to a place to work you learn to follow its rules. Else there are other places you can go to.

 

[Varun]

No Emirati citizen will ever criticize Sheik Mohammed Rashid Al Makhtoum . He has given them a lifestyle that is the envy of most first world nations and they love him to bits.
As for foreigners in Dubai, it would be silly on their part if they criticize Sheik Mo, knowing fully well what middle eastern sheikdoms are like. When you go to a place to work you learn to follow its rules. Else there are other places you can go to.

But he isn't God, so the charge is any critique from any corner could land an individual in trouble, which is a fair call.

But I guess you take the good with the bad and there is a lot of good about the UAE - especially if you're an Emirati yourself.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

No Emirati citizen will ever criticize Sheik Mohammed Rashid Al Makhtoum . He has given them a lifestyle that is the envy of most first world nations and they love him to bits.
As for foreigners in Dubai, it would be silly on their part if they criticize Sheik Mo, knowing fully well what middle eastern sheikdoms are like. When you go to a place to work you learn to follow its rules. Else there are other places you can go to.

Regardless of what the sheikh has done, the question is can you call UAE a progressive country where you could face jail time for criticising the rulers?

Right now there’s dozens of UAE activists that are sitting in jail and being tortured just because they tweeted certain things against the rulers. When activists get kidnapped in Pakistan we’re called backwards and barbaric, but when UAE imprisons/tortures activists it’s called a progressive place.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You're unlikely to find me anywhere near that pointless brick of ice, but go light on the BBCD accent whomever you meet, if you wish to preserve your financial health and the use of your limbs.

Why would that be the case? I have lots of Kashmiri friends, I think we would get on great. Unless of course you are talking about the Indian troops...but hey, if Israelis can tour Dubai, why can't we dream of touring India? Surely Indian are more progressive than the arabs?

 

[Mamoon]

A progressive place where if you criticise the ruler of Dubai you get locked up. I dare you to go to Dubai and pull down the rulers portrait from the wall and post it on SM.

Why would I or anyone do that? Besides, that is not something that you can do in most countries. Your premise is illogical.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Why would I or anyone do that? Besides, that is not something that you can do in most countries. Your premise is illogical.

You claimed Dubai is a progressive place, so I’m asking you how can a place be progressive when your freedom of speech and expressions are extremely limited?

Well in my country journalists and activists don’t get imprisoned for false charges i.e spying. The same place that you call progressive has locked up many human rights activists without fair trials.

Based on what I’ve said, can you really call Dubai progressive?

 

[CricketCartoons]

You claimed Dubai is a progressive place, so I’m asking you how can a place be progressive when your freedom of speech and expressions are extremely limited?

Your question has the answer. If you speak against a progressive state, then by definition you are not progressive, because if you were, you would be supporting the state.

Limiting the freedom of people who are anti progressive is what every progressive state must do.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Your question has the answer. If you speak against a progressive state, then by definition you are not progressive, because if you were, you would be supporting the state.

Limiting the freedom of people who are anti progressive is what every progressive state must do.

I would agree with you if that state wasn’t imprisoning human rights activists, and allowing them to have fair trials.

UAE is not progressive.

 

[LongHorn]

No Emirati citizen will ever criticize Sheik Mohammed Rashid Al Makhtoum . He has given them a lifestyle that is the envy of most first world nations and they love him to bits.
As for foreigners in Dubai, it would be silly on their part if they criticize Sheik Mo, knowing fully well what middle eastern sheikdoms are like. When you go to a place to work you learn to follow its rules. Else there are other places you can go to.

Shaikh Mohammad bin Rashed is the Ruler of Dubai.... and while he is the PM as well (and that is a relatively weak post), he has little to do with the prosperity that UAE citizens have

His main achievement is putting Dubai on the world map. UAE citizens good lifestyles come from oil wealth and the founding father (Shaikh Zayed)'s vision

 

[faraz39]

UAE is a police state where even the slightest hint of disagreement with the gov't means jail for citizens and deportation for foreigners. Where workers have no rights and the employer keeps your passport (even in management positions). You can't even switch jobs without your current employer agreeing to it. You can't open a business without a local citizen being a partner and getting paid for doing nothing.

Great place to make money in the short term however and live a glitzy life.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

UAE has been losing the Muslim tourists for a while now, it probably makes sense for them to reach out for the Israelis, and by doing so they will hope to attract Americans eventually which is the real big money spinner.

Muslims when they want a vacation in an Islamic country were already heading for Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia and other destinations which are less fake and actually have locals who interact with the tourists. Turkey with the rise of Ertugrul mania, and with the Ottoman challenge already stinging the Arabs, Turkey is of course the real draw these days, especially given they are not too hung up on unIslamic dress codes like the Arabs and Iranians are.

 

[Mamoon]

You claimed Dubai is a progressive place, so I’m asking you how can a place be progressive when your freedom of speech and expressions are extremely limited?

Well in my country journalists and activists don’t get imprisoned for false charges i.e spying. The same place that you call progressive has locked up many human rights activists without fair trials.

Based on what I’ve said, can you really call Dubai progressive?

Insulting the ruler of a monarchy is not freedom of speech and expression; it is hate speech.

In your country (I’m assuming Pakistan) journalists are regularly kidnapped and tortured by the military and their “software” is updated whenever they criticize the military. Moreover, people in Balochistan and FATA are regularly locked up without a fair trail.

You are kidding yourself if you are comparing Pakistan and Dubai on the progressive scale. They are poles apart.

In Dubai, you have the freedom to live a religious or a secular lifestyle. They also recognize all religions and nationalities including Israel and do not wear religion on their sleeve and do not let it dictate their foreign policy.

That is what you call a progressive state. I am sure I don’t need to explain to you what happens in Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

I would agree with you if that state wasn’t imprisoning human rights activists, and allowing them to have fair trials.

UAE is not progressive.

No country can be 100% progressive. Every country has a line that you cannot cross.

In Dubai and UAE, that line is respecting the authority of their rulers. As long as you do that and follow the law, no one will bother you and interfere with your personal lives.

That level of progression is more beneficial for the majority of people because they just want to live their own lives and do not care about human rights activism. That is why Dubai is able to attract people from all over the world and are able to give them a good life because they have the freedom to live their lifestyles.

 

[Madplayer]

You're unlikely to find me anywhere near that pointless brick of ice, but go light on the BBCD accent whomever you meet, if you wish to preserve your financial health and the use of your limbs.

Beats the hell out of your polluted dustbowls.

 

[Madplayer]

Why would that be the case? I have lots of Kashmiri friends, I think we would get on great. Unless of course you are talking about the Indian troops...but hey, if Israelis can tour Dubai, why can't we dream of touring India? Surely Indian are more progressive than the arabs?

Whenever you visit Kashmir, you'll be received with love and warmth by Kashmiris.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Whenever you visit Kashmir, you'll be received with love and warmth by Kashmiris.

Hopefully I will visit too, the Republic of Kashmir on my indian passport. Not sure if I will be welcomed.

 

[uberkoen]

UAE is a police state where even the slightest hint of disagreement with the gov't means jail for citizens and deportation for foreigners. Where workers have no rights and the employer keeps your passport (even in management positions). You can't even switch jobs without your current employer agreeing to it. You can't open a business without a local citizen being a partner and getting paid for doing nothing.

Great place to make money in the short term however and live a glitzy life.

lol. I think you've never been to Dubai and have been reading too much of those silly UK tabloids because you're wrong on all fronts.

 

[uberkoen]

I love how Pakistani's and Indian's on here are hating on UAE yet most of these would run over and get a job in the country if they could. I'm not surprised though these two nations are full of hypocrites.

The Pakistani's here are the funniest considering it's the remittances sent from expats based in the middle east that is running the economy.

 

[uberkoen]

Back on topic. I'm so glad UAE have recognized the state of Israel and opened bi-lateral relations with the country. It is a smart move one which I wish our leadership had the balls to make.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Back on topic. I'm so glad UAE have recognized the state of Israel and opened bi-lateral relations with the country. It is a smart move one which I wish our leadership had the balls to make.

It doesn't take courage to recognize the state of israel, only needs a lack of spine.

 

[Mamoon]

UAE is a police state where even the slightest hint of disagreement with the gov't means jail for citizens and deportation for foreigners. Where workers have no rights and the employer keeps your passport (even in management positions). You can't even switch jobs without your current employer agreeing to it. You can't open a business without a local citizen being a partner and getting paid for doing nothing.

Great place to make money in the short term however and live a glitzy life.

Disagreement is a broad term. How would you define it?

You only get deported if you do something very serious such as spy on the government etc.

The employers do not keep passports in management jobs. That is not true at all. I have several colleagues working as doctors in the Dubai.

I also know people working in consultancy firms like AON etc. and none of them have had their passports confiscated. It mostly only happens at laborer level.

Switching jobs in Dubai works like in any other country. No one can force you to stay. Dubai is a competitive market and there are no shortage of job applicants.

You can have your own business in Dubai without a local partner in designated areas of the city called free zones.

However, even when you need a local partner to setup a business, you don’t share profits; you only pay a small annual fee to the local partner. So it is not as bad as you make it sound.

You either have had a strangely terrible experience or you have had no experience and are misinformed.

 

[Mamoon]

I love how Pakistani's and Indian's on here are hating on UAE yet most of these would run over and get a job in the country if they could. I'm not surprised though these two nations are full of hypocrites.

The Pakistani's here are the funniest considering it's the remittances sent from expats based in the middle east that is running the economy.

People who haven’t had decent exposure to Dubai or do not personally know people who have worked there for an extensive period of time are usually quite ignorant, be it Pakistanis, Indians or those living in the west.

Pakistanis usually dislike UAE because they have left Pakistan behind in spite of all the “vulgarity” and how they have adopted a secular model.

People in the west have been primed to dislike UAE because their views are shaped by the western media who cannot digest the fact that a land of Arab bedouins who had nothing a few decades ago has in no time almost achieved parity with western countries and can even be considered ahead in certain metrics.

Then there are some schoolchildren who take potshots and call it artificial. So what?

 

[Madplayer]

Hopefully I will visit too, the Republic of Kashmir on my indian passport. Not sure if I will be welcomed.

Every tourist is always welcome in Kashmir.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Insulting the ruler of a monarchy is not freedom of speech and expression; it is hate speech.

In your country (I’m assuming Pakistan) journalists are regularly kidnapped and tortured by the military and their “software” is updated whenever they criticize the military. Moreover, people in Balochistan and FATA are regularly locked up without a fair trail.

You are kidding yourself if you are comparing Pakistan and Dubai on the progressive scale. They are poles apart.

In Dubai, you have the freedom to live a religious or a secular lifestyle. They also recognize all religions and nationalities including Israel and do not wear religion on their sleeve and do not let it dictate their foreign policy.

That is what you call a progressive state. I am sure I don’t need to explain to you what happens in Pakistan.

Nah, I’m from the UK, and I know what a progressive state is, I grew up in one.

No one claimed that Pakistan was progressive, they’re not and neither is UAE.

I’ll provide you with a link of report from Amnesty.org, and once you’ve read this you will soon realise UAE is not progressive.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...ed-arab-emirates/report-united-arab-emirates/

 

[Mamoon]

Nah, I’m from the UK, and I know what a progressive state is, I grew up in one.

No one claimed that Pakistan was progressive, they’re not and neither is UAE.

I’ll provide you with a link of report from Amnesty.org, and once you’ve read this you will soon realise UAE is not progressive.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...ed-arab-emirates/report-united-arab-emirates/

Not interested in reading the report which will be the usual attacks on UAE for detaining ABC and deporting XYZ. Amnesty international is far from an unbiased organization no matter how apolitical they claim to be.

The UK is more progressive than UAE, I would agree, but the dynamics are vastly different because it is very difficult for a Muslim country to be progressive, but UAE have done a remarkable job on that front and have fostered an environment where people can live lifestyles of their choice without the government intervening in their personal matters.

Whether you want to sport a big beard and roll your trouser cuffs and pray 5 times in a mosque, or whether you want to be a party animal, there is room for both, and that is progressive.

UAE is not the most progressive country in the world. It will probably never reach a point where it will allow people to abuse the monarchy, but you do not need to reach that level of progression to provide a good life to your citizens and the people who dwell in your country.

No one needs to insult the monarchy considering the freedom and opportunities they have provided to their people.

 

[LongHorn]

lol. I think you've never been to Dubai and have been reading too much of those silly UK tabloids because you're wrong on all fronts.

Everything he said is absolutely and I am someone who has spent 3+ decades there

Maybe passports arent kept for many higher staff nowadays.

There are loads and loads of laws, one of them is that you cannot express any sympathy or say any positive stuff about a neighboring country on the pain of jail

The funny thing is UAE was actually more free 10 or 20 years back, while in Saudia it is the opposite

 

[LongHorn]

Disagreement is a broad term. How would you define it?

You only get deported if you do something very serious such as spy on the government etc.

Wrong, and your statement shows you have no idea of how things work there.

Loads of people have been deported for no crime,
read that again

If you do a crime, you will be jailed and then deported, but there are plenty of people who were told to pack up and leave within a week.....

That is because they did not commit any crime,

1) 10-15 years back it was the "other" sect who faced this

2) More recently it is people who are more visibly religious, and these days of course those who have expressed disagreement with recent foreign policy decisions on social media

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not interested in reading the report which will be the usual attacks on UAE for detaining ABC and deporting XYZ. Amnesty international is far from an unbiased organization no matter how apolitical they claim to be.

The UK is more progressive than UAE, I would agree, but the dynamics are vastly different because it is very difficult for a Muslim country to be progressive, but UAE have done a remarkable job on that front and have fostered an environment where people can live lifestyles of their choice without the government intervening in their personal matters.

Whether you want to sport a big beard and roll your trouser cuffs and pray 5 times in a mosque, or whether you want to be a party animal, there is room for both, and that is progressive.

UAE is not the most progressive country in the world. It will probably never reach a point where it will allow people to abuse the monarchy, but you do not need to reach that level of progression to provide a good life to your citizens and the people who dwell in your country.

No one needs to insult the monarchy considering the freedom and opportunities they have provided to their people.

Really? I think they have fostered an environment where outsiders can live the lifestyle of their choice, but the locals from what I saw are still very conservative. The residential areas all seem to be away from any of the commercial areas so I never really got an idea of how they live day to day. It's a weird country but well set up if all you want is a beach vacation.

 

[Nadeemp]

UAE is not progressive by any measures . I was born and raised till 16 yr old . Yes you can drink and party. But that’s not the definition of progressive ideas in my book. Emiratí are First class Citizens. Everyone else comes after. Desks are at the bottom. We left in 1988 I think. My father was ceo/head architect/ head civil engineer of a firm he helped build . He worked There from 1970 till 1988 . Once day ( 1987) the Emirati misbehaved with him and told him “wha are you gonna do about it” (I will not go into details). My father decided that’s it and a year later packed up and moved to the USA. Also you can’t talk about the royal family. Try your best to avoid any confrontation with an Emirati.
Yes it’s much better than it’s neighbors and I think it moving in the right direction.

 

[LongHorn]

Really? I think they have fostered an environment where outsiders can live the lifestyle of their choice, but the locals from what I saw are still very conservative. The residential areas all seem to be away from any of the commercial areas so I never really got an idea of how they live day to day. It's a weird country but well set up if all you want is a beach vacation.

Locals in UAE range from quite liberal to very conservative. Most of Dubai's locals and an increasing number of Abu Dhabi's locals are getting progressive, in a good way as well as a bad way. Praying in Jama'at for instance has decreased a lot in the under 40 population.

In Ras Al Khaimah and Sharjah, many locals are still very conservative

 

[LongHorn]

People working in the Gulf come in all backgrounds...

Some achieve their dreams there, others find it broken

It is patronizing to either dismiss everyone working there as slaves, or to claim every one there is happy and making a lot than back home (because both claims are untrue)

 

[shaykh]

Mamoon is chatting some grade A nonsense in this thread...

The Emiratis are currently leading the charge in Yemen and in Libya...for someone who criticises Saudi for what they do abroad it’s hilarious for you to call the Emirates progressive...

Progressive in what sense?...Cos they have the tallest buildings in the world?...

That stuff about government not intervening in ppls personal matters is just parody stuff at best ...

 

[Mamoon]

Mamoon is chatting some grade A nonsense in this thread...

The Emiratis are currently leading the charge in Yemen and in Libya...for someone who criticises Saudi for what they do abroad it’s hilarious for you to call the Emirates progressive...

Progressive in what sense?...Cos they have the tallest buildings in the world?...

That stuff about government not intervening in ppls personal matters is just parody stuff at best ...

People don’t give a rat’s behind to what the government does in other countries. Did Muslims leave USA and UK when the governments were using their tax money to bomb Muslims? No they didn’t.

In reality, people just want to live their lives and only become warriors of human rights on social media.

Hence, personal freedom is of paramount importance. UAE gives you the liberty to do what you want as long as you don’t break the rules.

Money, good healthcare, quality education (even higher education is improving now), food, hygiene, safety etc. is all there. If you are educated and can get a job there, you would be better off there than in most countries.

Yes the labor class suffers, but that is the case in almost every country. There is no heaven for labor class on earth.

 

[LongHorn]

People don’t give a rat’s behind to what the government does in other countries. Did Muslims leave USA and UK when the governments were using their tax money to bomb Muslims? No they didn’t. .

No, but they were free to protest and speak against the Iraq and Afghan wars...
Try saying anything negative against the Yemen war in those countries...

 

[shaykh]

People don’t give a rat’s behind to what the government does in other countries. Did Muslims leave USA and UK when the governments were using their tax money to bomb Muslims? No they didn’t.

In reality, people just want to live their lives and only become warriors of human rights on social media.

Hence, personal freedom is of paramount importance. UAE gives you the liberty to do what you want as long as you don’t break the rules.

Money, good healthcare, quality education (even higher education is improving now), food, hygiene, safety etc. is all there. If you are educated and can get a job there, you would be better off there than in most countries.

Yes the labor class suffers, but that is the case in almost every country. There is no heaven for labor class on earth.

This countries labour laws are worse than Saudis...workers have more protection there ...

This is the same country that arrested people for kissing on a beach ...homosexuality is outlawed as is sex before marriage ...

Freedom of expression doesn’t exist ...criticism of the monarchy publicly has led to arrest...and 75% of detainees have reported torture ...

People who have criticised the government have been deported under cyber crime laws...

New terror laws means criticism of the government has led to some being charged with terrorism...there is absolutely no form of peaceful protest ...one example that comes to mind is a woman who raised money for Syrian refugees who got charged with terrorism ...

As mentioned workers...passports are held in some cases...and going on strike can lead to deportation...

Plenty of examples of women being charged with zina when reporting sexual assault...

I could go on...there are a litany of examples for each...

By what measure is the UAE progressive?...cos there are big buildings, cos you can buy alcohol and go to bars?...what is your measure?...

 

[Mamoon]

No, but they were free to protest and speak against the Iraq and Afghan wars...
Try saying anything negative against the Yemen war in those countries...

Talk is cheap. If they really cared, they would have left those countries instead of protesting and speaking. Actions speak louder than words after all.

So what if UAE doesn’t let you talk? Zip it up and get on with your lives and enjoy what Dubai has to offer in comparison to dirty, polluted, unsafe third world countries like Pakistan and India.

 

[Mamoon]

This countries labour laws are worse than Saudis...workers have more protection there ...

This is the same country that arrested people for kissing on a beach ...homosexuality is outlawed as is sex before marriage ...

Freedom of expression doesn’t exist ...criticism of the monarchy publicly has led to arrest...and 75% of detainees have reported torture ...

People who have criticised the government have been deported under cyber crime laws...

New terror laws means criticism of the government has led to some being charged with terrorism...there is absolutely no form of peaceful protest ...one example that comes to mind is a woman who raised money for Syrian refugees who got charged with terrorism ...

As mentioned workers...passports are held in some cases...and going on strike can lead to deportation...

Plenty of examples of women being charged with zina when reporting sexual assault...

I could go on...there are a litany of examples for each...

By what measure is the UAE progressive?...cos there are big buildings, cos you can buy alcohol and go to bars?...what is your measure?...

Don’t criticize the ruler. Seriously, how hard is it?

People who are working in Dubai for years in different sectors such as medicine, engineering, finance, IT, consultancy or have businesses etc. and are living comfortably. How many of them have the itch to criticize the rulers and why would they do that?

Again - very few countries are great for the labor class. Yes they take their passports and cram dozens into small apartments, but these people weren’t living like kings in their homelands and they are still earning more than they did back home.

Take a look at how much pathan taxi drivers make in Dubai and then compare it to what they were doing in Pakistan before they came to Dubai.

UAE is progressive because it allows you to live your life in a secular way which is very rare for a Muslim country.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here's a question for those want the freedom to criticise your government/ruler - where has it gotton you? In the West you can criticise but what difference does it, or has it, made?

It's very simple, a normal human being who just wants to get on and enjoy life will find UAE heaven. If you want to be a political activist, you have no hope in the West let alone UAE - jog on.

 

[Mamoon]

Here's a question for those want the freedom to criticise your government/ruler - where has it gotton you? In the West you can criticise but what difference does it, or has it, made?

It's very simple, a normal human being who just wants to get on and enjoy life will find UAE heaven. If you want to be a political activist, you have no hope in the West let alone UAE - jog on.

Actually, UAE bashing is the fashionable/cool thing to do. It makes you look intelligent and perceptive and shows that you are not impressed with glitz, glamour and luxuries that UAE has to offer.

Law abiding people, be it Pakistanis or Indians or whatever, have been living there for generations and they have had no problems at all. They haven’t been deported and they haven’t been jailed.

They are living a comfortable, luxurious life which UAE provides if you follow the law and work hard at your job.

The lesson is that don’t be a hipster and some woke human activist and you will be fine.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Don’t criticize the ruler. Seriously, how hard is it?

People who are working in Dubai for years in different sectors such as medicine, engineering, finance, IT, consultancy or have businesses etc. and are living comfortably. How many of them have the itch to criticize the rulers and why would they do that?

Again - very few countries are great for the labor class. Yes they take their passports and cram dozens into small apartments, but these people weren’t living like kings in their homelands and they are still earning more than they did back home.

Take a look at how much pathan taxi drivers make in Dubai and then compare it to what they were doing in Pakistan before they came to Dubai.

UAE is progressive because it allows you to live your life in a secular way which is very rare for a Muslim country.

Mamoon saab, you just don’t get it. It’s not about criticising the rulers or not, it’s about having the RIGHT to criticise them. Every human being has the RIGHT to speak their minds as long as it’s not hate speech.

I’m assuming you’re a Pakistani Liberal, so you probably have an issue with how the Pakistani state controls the media, but, it’s kinda hypocritical of you to say that UAE is progressive when UAE does the same. You think the media in UAE can speak against the rulers?

 

[Mamoon]

If you look at the educated class,

Doctors are doing well in UAE.
Engineers are doing well in UAE.
IT/Telecom are doing well in UAE
Accounting & Finance people are doing well in UAE.
Consultants are doing well in UAE.
Businessmen are doing well in UAE.

The only people who don’t do well are human activists and social media warriors, and when they get thrown out for not following the law, they start crying.

 

[Mamoon]

Mamoon saab, you just don’t get it. It’s not about criticising the rulers or not, it’s about having the RIGHT to criticise them. Every human being has the RIGHT to speak their minds as long as it’s not hate speech.

I’m assuming you’re a Pakistani Liberal, so you probably have an issue with how the Pakistani state controls the media, but, it’s kinda hypocritical of you to say that UAE is progressive when UAE does the same. You think the media in UAE can speak against the rulers?

No, every human being does not have the right to speak their minds. When you speak your mind, the difference between free speech and hate speech is conflated.

Who decides the parameters of free speech vs hate speech? The land of the law does.

Why do you think I use the anonymity of PP to criticize the government and the military and don’t do it in real life or on other social media where I don’t have anonymity?

Because that will get in me trouble, and I don’t want that.

If you want to take a risk go for it, but then don’t complain when you have to suffer the consequences.

If UAE residents criticize their rulers outside anonymous profiles and they get deported or jailed, it is their problem because they rules of the game were laid out in front of them.

 

[Nadeemp]

Some people here are pretending Uae is the next best thing since sliced bread. Some are saying it’s a hell hole. The truth lies somewhere in the middle and I think uae is moving in the right direction . I was born there are left. I would never live in Dubai again. As I have better choices. I live in the states. Choice between Pakistan or Dubai I would pick Dubai.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

No, every human being does not have the right to speak their minds. When you speak your mind, the difference between free speech and hate speech is conflated.

Who decides the parameters of free speech vs hate speech? The land of the law does.

Why do you think I use the anonymity of PP to criticize the government and the military and don’t do it in real life or on other social media where I don’t have anonymity?

Because that will get in me trouble, and I don’t want that.

If you want to take a risk go for it, but then don’t complain when you have to suffer the consequences.

If UAE residents criticize their rulers outside anonymous profiles and they get deported or jailed, it is their problem because they rules of the game were laid out in front of them.

Is speaking up about human rights issues considered hate speech? Is protesting in public against the war in Yemen hate speech? No. Would both of these actions lead you to jail in UAE, yes. That’s not progressive.

 

[faraz39]

lol. I think you've never been to Dubai and have been reading too much of those silly UK tabloids because you're wrong on all fronts.

I was raised in Canada so I know what a proper country looks and runs like. Sure, if someone is from Pakistan, Dubai is a paradise because they don't know any better.

Additionally, my father in law is a CFO of a major company in UAE and has close contacts with locals and the government so I'm privy to info that most people wouldn't find out. i've visited UAE numerous times and being able to speak Arabic, I can talk to locals and expats.

 

[Technics 1210]

Mamoon saab, you just don’t get it. It’s not about criticising the rulers or not, it’s about having the RIGHT to criticise them. Every human being has the RIGHT to speak their minds as long as it’s not hate speech.

I’m assuming you’re a Pakistani Liberal, so you probably have an issue with how the Pakistani state controls the media, but, it’s kinda hypocritical of you to say that UAE is progressive when UAE does the same. You think the media in UAE can speak against the rulers?

The same government bestows a tax free living (barring 5% VAT). Want to protest against the ruler? Speak your mind in favour, not opposition.

 

[Technics 1210]

Actually, UAE bashing is the fashionable/cool thing to do. It makes you look intelligent and perceptive and shows that you are not impressed with glitz, glamour and luxuries that UAE has to offer.

Law abiding people, be it Pakistanis or Indians or whatever, have been living there for generations and they have had no problems at all. They haven’t been deported and they haven’t been jailed.

They are living a comfortable, luxurious life which UAE provides if you follow the law and work hard at your job.

The lesson is that don’t be a hipster and some woke human activist and you will be fine.

Yup. Most people live by the rules and are quite content with life in the UAE. It's not in your face; politically or religiously.

The greatest testimony to UAE's success and appeal is that 9/10ths of the population are immigrants; and when Westerners choose UAE, an Islamic sovereignty, you know the UAE is doing something right.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

The same government bestows a tax free living (barring 5% VAT). Want to protest against the ruler? Speak your mind in favour, not opposition.

Gaddafi’s Libya had free health care and free electricity, what’s your point?

 

[shaykh]

Talk is cheap. If they really cared, they would have left those countries instead of protesting and speaking. Actions speak louder than words after all.

So what if UAE doesn’t let you talk? Zip it up and get on with your lives and enjoy what Dubai has to offer in comparison to dirty, polluted, unsafe third world countries like Pakistan and India.

The manner in which you discuss politics in Pakistan you would not be able to do there as a simple example...so no it’s not just social justice warriors...unless that’s what you refer to yourself as for having an opinion online...

 

[Technics 1210]

Gaddafi’s Libya had free health care and free electricity, what’s your point?

There are more things important than having the right to protest against the same leader that bestows privileges not found seldom elsewhere.

The woke generation just need an excuse.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

There are more things important than having the right to protest against the same leader that bestows privileges not found seldom elsewhere.

The woke generation just need an excuse.

Ok, what are some of the things that are more important than having the right to protest against the government for their involvement in the Yemen war?

 

[Technics 1210]

Ok, what are some of the things that are more important than having the right to protest against the government for their involvement in the Yemen war?

Why just the Yemen war? Why are you discriminating. Are all wars not evil? Or is the life of a non-muslim not worth protesting for?

Even if you have the right to protest, what difference does it make? Makes you feel better because your voice was heard but ignored?

 

[shaykh]

There are more things important than having the right to protest against the same leader that bestows privileges not found seldom elsewhere.

The woke generation just need an excuse.

Absolute nonsense ...

A forum like this wouldn’t even be able to function in the Emirates ...

I’m not a social justice warrior if I criticise something in my country or have a discussion about it online ...

People get arrested for simply voicing their opinions online in the Emirates ...

You Pakistanis who discuss politics in your country wouldn’t have that freedom there if you want to talk about the situation in the Emirates ...

Your discussion about protests and social justice warriors is a really poorly constructed straw man by creating an extreme ...but even then point is why shouldn’t ppl be allowed to voice their opinion on the Emirates leading the charge in destabilising Libya further and funding death squads in Yemen ...

Do you think workers should be deported for threatening to go on strike?...

Do you think women should be arrested for zina when they report sexual assault?...

You guys have set a really low bar for what is ‘progressive’ ...

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Dubai is a wonderful place for a holiday. Especially if you are Muslim and go with the family. There are a plethora of things to do and you feel totally and completely safe walking around at night. The UAE has done wonderfully well setting itself up as a tourist destination and it will continue to flourish for those reasons.

The misery that the downtrodden migrants live in though is being completely downplayed in this thread. They are shockingly poor conditions, abuse of females( maids etc) is rife and despite living in poverty these people are exploited and abused by the system.

It isn't being 'woke' to want states basic things like workers right, health and safety, the right to demand justice ( they just boot you out) and to have satisfactory housing. Yes, these workers may make more money than they make in Pakistan or India, but that doesn't mean they are not being exploited.

The progressive nature of a state isn't how liberal their alcohol laws are but how their systems are designed to protect the most vulnerable.

 

[shaykh]

Dubai is a wonderful place for a holiday. Especially if you are Muslim and go with the family. There are a plethora of things to do and you feel totally and completely safe walking around at night. The UAE has done wonderfully well setting itself up as a tourist destination and it will continue to flourish for those reasons.

The misery that the downtrodden migrants live in though is being completely downplayed in this thread. They are shockingly poor conditions, abuse of females( maids etc) is rife and despite living in poverty these people are exploited and abused by the system.

It isn't being 'woke' to want states basic things like workers right, health and safety, the right to demand justice ( they just boot you out) and to have satisfactory housing. Yes, these workers may make more money than they make in Pakistan or India, but that doesn't mean they are not being exploited.

The progressive nature of a state isn't how liberal their alcohol laws are but how their systems are designed to protect the most vulnerable.

The funny thing is the one who’s so impressed with how ‘progressive’ the UAE (Mamoon) is secular which makes his position more bizarre...

You mention alcohol...you still have to be careful with that ...drinking it if you’re Muslim is still 80 lashes...expats have been given 80 lashes for being drunk in public ...

So it’s liberal on the surface cos bars etc exist ...however premarital sex is punishable by 100 lashes...homosexuality is outlawed...women must seek permission from a male guardian to get married and must marry someone of the same religion...women have been charged with zina after reporting sexual assault...80 lashes for kissing in public...

Someone was deported for swearing on FB...swearing on WhatsApp is also a crime...criticism of the state online is a crime...so it would be illegal for a journalist to criticise the state for its treatment of workers...this is all progressive?...there are quite a few examples of people who have been made to disappear or been given 10 year sentences for criticism of the state...and these aren’t for ppl protesting in the streets, these are for people tweeting or on forums or on fb etc...

Beating a wife is fine providing it leaves no marks...if marks are left the husband pays a fine...again is this progressive?...

Workers have their passports confiscated and strikes are punishable by deportation...and these are workers complaining about things like excessive workloads, not getting days off, working when it’s too hot, not being paid, sexual abuse...

In many cases you are attached to your employer and can’t leave...to leave is deemed to abscond which means the worker is fined...This is all progressive?...

I don’t see it personally ...but hey they have nice buildings...

I’ve lived nicely in places where the human rights are awful cos you live in a bubble...and certain things most certainly do not effect you ...or you yourself don’t have to worry about rules being applied...so those saying someone can live well somewhere might be true...but this doesn’t mean the place itself is progressive...far from it...

 

[faraz39]

I have no issues with people living in UAE, making good money and enjoying themselves. Every one does what's best for them.

But don't portray it as some kind of progressive country which is concerned with human rights, equality and justice.

 

[faraz39]

The funny thing is the one who’s so impressed with how ‘progressive’ the UAE (Mamoon) is secular which makes his position more bizarre...

You mention alcohol...you still have to be careful with that ...drinking it if you’re Muslim is still 80 lashes...expats have been given 80 lashes for being drunk in public ...

So it’s liberal on the surface cos bars etc exist ...however premarital sex is punishable by 100 lashes...homosexuality is outlawed...women must seek permission from a male guardian to get married and must marry someone of the same religion...women have been charged with zina after reporting sexual assault...80 lashes for kissing in public...

Someone was deported for swearing on FB...swearing on WhatsApp is also a crime...criticism of the state online is a crime...so it would be illegal for a journalist to criticise the state for its treatment of workers...this is all progressive?...there are quite a few examples of people who have been made to disappear or been given 10 year sentences for criticism of the state...and these aren’t for ppl protesting in the streets, these are for people tweeting or on forums or on fb etc...

Beating a wife is fine providing it leaves no marks...if marks are left the husband pays a fine...again is this progressive?...

Workers have their passports confiscated and strikes are punishable by deportation...and these are workers complaining about things like excessive workloads, not getting days off, working when it’s too hot, not being paid, sexual abuse...

In many cases you are attached to your employer and can’t leave...to leave is deemed to abscond which means the worker is fined...This is all progressive?...

I don’t see it personally ...but hey they have nice buildings...

I’ve lived nicely in places where the human rights are awful cos you live in a bubble...and certain things most certainly do not effect you ...or you yourself don’t have to worry about rules being applied...so those saying someone can live well somewhere might be true...but this doesn’t mean the place itself is progressive...far from it...

I make allowance for people who have not experienced any better so I can see why Dubai seems perfect to them. And if someone is coming from the sub continent, it's natural to be in awe because the difference is day and night.

I hold the government responsible not the people living there because they have no say in how things are run.

 

[uberkoen]

The funny thing is the one who’s so impressed with how ‘progressive’ the UAE (Mamoon) is secular which makes his position more bizarre...

You mention alcohol...you still have to be careful with that ...drinking it if you’re Muslim is still 80 lashes...expats have been given 80 lashes for being drunk in public ...

So it’s liberal on the surface cos bars etc exist ...however premarital sex is punishable by 100 lashes...homosexuality is outlawed...women must seek permission from a male guardian to get married and must marry someone of the same religion...women have been charged with zina after reporting sexual assault...80 lashes for kissing in public...

Someone was deported for swearing on FB...swearing on WhatsApp is also a crime...criticism of the state online is a crime...so it would be illegal for a journalist to criticise the state for its treatment of workers...this is all progressive?...there are quite a few examples of people who have been made to disappear or been given 10 year sentences for criticism of the state...and these aren’t for ppl protesting in the streets, these are for people tweeting or on forums or on fb etc...

Beating a wife is fine providing it leaves no marks...if marks are left the husband pays a fine...again is this progressive?...

Workers have their passports confiscated and strikes are punishable by deportation...and these are workers complaining about things like excessive workloads, not getting days off, working when it’s too hot, not being paid, sexual abuse...

In many cases you are attached to your employer and can’t leave...to leave is deemed to abscond which means the worker is fined...This is all progressive?...

I don’t see it personally ...but hey they have nice buildings...

I’ve lived nicely in places where the human rights are awful cos you live in a bubble...and certain things most certainly do not effect you ...or you yourself don’t have to worry about rules being applied...so those saying someone can live well somewhere might be true...but this doesn’t mean the place itself is progressive...far from it...

Most of the things you have posted are not true btw.

 

[shaykh]

Most of the things you have posted are not true btw.

You mention the passport thing being from the 90s...

Anyhow here is a quote from this article from 2017:

‘But for Amol and his colleagues, the law only works on paper. "We can cite the law and ask for our passports if we want to," he says. "But that has consequences." Those consequences include employer-issued fines, wage stagnation, and sudden termination.’

https://psmag.com/social-justice/why-are-migrant-workers-passports-still-being-held-hostage-in-uae

 

[LongHorn]

Most of the things you have posted are not true btw.

I have lived there for 30+ years and most of what he said is true...

 

[LongHorn]

You mention the passport thing being from the 90s...

Anyhow here is a quote from this article from 2017:

‘But for Amol and his colleagues, the law only works on paper. "We can cite the law and ask for our passports if we want to," he says. "But that has consequences." Those consequences include employer-issued fines, wage stagnation, and sudden termination.’

https://psmag.com/social-justice/why-are-migrant-workers-passports-still-being-held-hostage-in-uae

Btw, the quote from the worker is true for many other matters as well

On paper there is a law against delayed wages, but if you do report your employer, you will be punished in other ways and the law cannot protect you then

 

[Technics 1210]

I don't find it a coincidence that the people in this thread whom oppose the law of UAE are vocal against Islam. This is the crux of the matter.

 

[faraz39]

I don't find it a coincidence that the people in this thread whom oppose the law of UAE are vocal against Islam. This is the crux of the matter.

I am anything but against Islam. I moved to Egypt to study Arabic and Islamic sciences and am doing my degree in Shariah right now. It's not about being for or against....it's about being fair. I have stated several times there are benefits to living in UAE but there are also serious drawbacks.

Yes, it's not fair to paint it as a hellhole but neither is it fair to show it as a paradise (unfortunately, far too many people believe it's the latter).

 

[Hasan]

UAE development and success has been built on the knowledge, sweat and blood of South East Asian expats. And only an idiot would claim that it was an equitable deal.

The father of the nation, Sheikh Zayed, was very cognisant of this fact however, his son has not honoured the great contribution of SE Asian expats.

 

[uberkoen]

I have lived there for 30+ years and most of what he said is true...

It's not. I'm living there right now and none of that happens.

 

[uberkoen]

Btw, the quote from the worker is true for many other matters as well

On paper there is a law against delayed wages, but if you do report your employer, you will be punished in other ways and the law cannot protect you then

Wrong again. WPS is enforced. You can make a complain to MOL if salary is delayed. Nothing happens to you. Please stop spreading lies.

 

[uberkoen]

UAE development and success has been built on the knowledge, sweat and blood of South East Asian expats. And only an idiot would claim that it was an equitable deal.

The father of the nation, Sheikh Zayed, was very cognisant of this fact however, his son has not honoured the great contribution of SE Asian expats.

The South East Asian Expats went to the UAE looking for better paying jobs. They got paid more than they would back home. Not sure what people are complaining about. They were paid handsomely for their work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The South East Asian Expats went to the UAE looking for better paying jobs. They got paid more than they would back home. Not sure what people are complaining about. They were paid handsomely for their work.

I argued this same point many times in previous discussions about this issue.

 

[LongHorn]

Wrong again. WPS is enforced. You can make a complain to MOL if salary is delayed. Nothing happens to you. Please stop spreading lies.

I think you are in the "i have a great job in Dubai, so everyone else has one as well" boat...

Once the pandemic started, companies got permission to cut salaries or give unpaid leave as much as they want to, and of course quite a few companies took advantage

And before the pandemic there were still many companies not paying salaries on time or delaying them....
Sure Apple Middle East, or Aster Medical wouldnt do that, but there are many smaller companies where stuff like that happens, and employees are too scared to report.

 

[LongHorn]

All said, the UAE is still better for most expats than a place like Kuwait.
Also Dubai has far less racism than certain other places in the Gulf

Dubai has a large number of well off Desi expats and as such you are not "categorized" as such

Even during this pandemic Dubai has treated Desi expats better than some neighboring places where they have been locked up in centers without hot water/toothpaste, and forced to share rooms and restrooms with strangers even after testing negative for Covid