What's new

Italy votes as far-right Meloni looks for victory

MenInG

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Runs
217,977
Italians are deciding whether to choose their most right-wing government since World War Two, in an election being followed closely across Europe.

Giorgia Meloni leads the far-right Brothers of Italy party and is aiming to become the country's first female prime minister allied with two other parties on the right.

She has softened her image and resents being linked to Italy's fascist past.

Almost 51 million Italians have the right to vote until 23:00 (21:00 GMT).

By midday, turnout was more than 19%, similar to the last election four years ago, and long queues were reported at some polling stations in Rome.

Ms Meloni's main rival - centre-left leader Enrico Letta - voted in the capital, while her far-right ally Matteo Salvini cast his ballot in Milan. There are 2.6 million first-time voters and 4.7 million abroad. Exit polls will come out when polls close and results will follow hours later.

In the Garbatella area of southern Rome - where the Brothers of Italy leader grew up - one voter praised her "strong character", while another said she had voted to keep the far right out. "It's not who I want to win, it's who I don't want," said Emma.

Giorgia Meloni backs Western sanctions on Russia and has toned down rhetoric on Europe.

But she still embraces an old slogan adopted by Benito Mussolini's fascists: "God, fatherland and family". She has also spoken out against the "LGBT lobby" and called for a naval blockade of Libya to halt migration.

An hour south of Rome, in the town of Latina, observers believe the far right can seize the town from the left. Founded by Mussolini in 1932, Latina still bears traces of the dictator, but has suffered from years of underfunding.

"Take a look, it's a disaster," says one passer by. The town has had a left-wing mayor in recent years, but the far right has Latina in its sights. Matteo Salvini came here last week to round off his League party's campaign. Centre-right Forza Italia under ex-prime minister Silvio Berlusconi, 85, is also part of Meloni's coalition.

Gianluca Atlante
Image caption,
Gianluca Atlante's office is directly opposite the Palazzo Emme, built in honour of Mussolini
"Meloni speaks to the guts of the people," says Gianluca Atlante, a journalist with regional newspaper Latina Oggi. Behind him sits the imposing Palazzo Emme, built in the shape of a letter M for Mussolini. These days it serves as the local headquarters of the finance ministry's law enforcement agency.

Italy's economy was picking up after the Covid-19 pandemic, but then the energy crisis - largely triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine - sent prices soaring. While the politicians have spent recent days arguing over Russia and Europe, Italians are most worried about paying their bills.

For a year and a half Italy was led by a unity government under Mario Draghi, a widely respected ex-head of the European Central Bank. Giorgia Meloni was one of the few party leaders who refused to take part.

The Draghi government's main task was to push through reforms agreed as part of the EU's eye-watering €200bn (£178bn) in post-Covid recovery grants and loans. By July, the government had collapsed and Meloni wants those reforms revisited in light of the energy crisis. She has also talked of doing more to "defend" Italy's national interests in the EU.

No wonder many of Europe's leaders are watching this vote closely.

Matteo Salvini of "Lega" political party, Silvio Berlusconi of "Forza Italia" party and Giorgia Meloni of "Fratelli d'Italia" party attend a rally on 22 September in Rome
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Giorgia Meloni (R) has formed an alliance with Silvio Berlusconi (C) of Forza Italia and Matteo Salvini's League
Italy's left and centre parties failed to mount a joint challenge to the Meloni alliance. Enrico Letta's centre left has several policies in common with the Five Star Movement led by Giuseppe Conte, but they do not see eye to eye.

Whichever alliance wins Sunday's vote could benefit from new rules that have cut the sizes of the two elected houses of parliament by a third: the Chamber of Deputies now has 400 seats and the Senate 200.

Italy has a mixed electoral system. More than a third of seats are won by a UK-style first-past-the-post constituency contest, and more than 60% by proportional representation across Italy.

Commentators believe that the voting system and the shrunken parliament could mean that if an alliance wins 40% of the vote, they could also control as many as 60% of seats. If the right wing were to succeed, that could help the push through a keynote policy - making the president a directly elected figure.

Even if Brothers of Italy do top the vote, and Giorgia Meloni's allies hand her an overall majority, the decision on who becomes prime minister rests with President Sergio Mattarella, an impartial figure backed by parliament.

Replacing that with an elected president may sound more democratic, but there's a reason why some Italians are worried by the thought of handing more power to their head of state - and that also goes back to Italy's previous experience of fascism.

In Latina, they are not just watching the political battle playing out between left and right, there is another story that is also on people's minds.

Standing for the Senate is one of Italy's most treasured stars of the past, Gina Lollobrigida. Now 95, she became a cinema legend in the 1960s and she has defied a fractured femur to fight in Sunday's election.

BBC
 
A lot of places in the world are going right-wing. I wonder why.

I blame radical liberalism. It pushes people toward right.

I always oppose far-right as I believe it is extreme. But, I can see why right-wing parties may become more dominant.
 
Ahhhh, the another nail in the EU coffin.

It is no surprise that far right parties are not only rising in support, but are voted into government.

The EU has failed all its members with the exception of Germany.

Cannot to see the day the EU loses more members.

This is great news for those who voted for Brexit!
 
A far right government in Italy will effect entire Europe. The thugs and racists will be on a high and hopeful of bringing such government's in all European countries.
 
Far-right leader Giorgia Meloni has claimed victory in Italy's election, and is on course to become the country's first female prime minister.

Ms Meloni is widely expected to form Italy's most right-wing government since World War Two.

That will alarm much of Europe as Italy is the EU's third-biggest economy.

However, speaking after the vote, Ms Meloni said her Brothers of Italy party would "govern for everyone" and would not betray people's trust.

"Italians have sent a clear message in favour of a right-wing government led by Brothers of Italy," she told reporters in Rome, holding up a sign saying "Thank you Italy".

She is predicted to win up to 26% of the vote, based on provisional results, ahead of her closest rival Enrico Letta from the centre left.

Ms Meloni's right-wing alliance - which also includes Matteo Salvini's far-right League and former PM Silvio Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia - now looks to have control of both the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies, with around 44% of the vote.

Her own party's success in the vote disguised the fact that her allies performed poorly, with Mr Salvini's party slipping below 9%, and Forza Italia even lower.

The decision on who becomes Italy's next leader is up to the president, Sergio Mattarella, and that will take time.

Although Giorgia Meloni has worked hard to soften her image, emphasising her support for Ukraine and diluting anti-EU rhetoric, she leads a party rooted in a post-war movement that rose out of dictator Benito Mussolini's fascists.

Earlier this year she outlined her priorities in a raucous speech to Spain's far-right Vox party: "Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology... no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration... no to big international finance... no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!"

Projections put the centre-left alliance well behind with 26% and Democratic Party figure Debora Serracchiani said it was a sad evening for Italy. The right "has the majority in parliament, but not in the country", she insisted.

The left failed to form a viable challenge with other parties, after Italy's 18-month national unity government collapsed in July, and officials were downbeat even before the vote. The Five Star Movement under Giuseppe Conte is on course for third place but despite having several centre-left policies does not see eye to eye with Enrico Letta.

Turnout fell to a record low of 63.91% - nine points down on 2018. Voting levels were especially poor in southern regions including Sicily.

Italy is a founding father of the European Union and a member of Nato, and Ms Meloni's rhetoric on the EU places her close to Hungary's nationalist leader Viktor Orban.

Her allies have both had close ties with Russia. Mr Berlusconi, 85, claimed last week that Vladimir Putin was pushed into invading Ukraine while Mr Salvini has called into question Western sanctions on Moscow.

Ms Meloni wants to revisit Italian reforms agreed with the EU in return for almost €200bn (£178bn) in post-Covid recovery grants and loans, arguing that the energy crisis has changed the situation.

The Hungarian prime minister's long-serving political director, Balazs Orban, was quick to congratulate Italy's right-wing parties: "We need more than ever friends who share a common vision and approach to Europe's challenges."

In France, Jordan Bardella of the far-right National Rally said Italian voters had given European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen a lesson in humility. She had earlier said Europe had "the tools" to respond if Italy went in a "difficult direction".

However, Prof Gianluca Passarrelli of Rome's Sapienza University told the BBC he thought she would avoid rocking the boat on Europe and focus on other policies: "I think we will see more restrictions on civil rights and policies on LGBT and immigrants."

Mr Salvini will be hoping to return to the interior ministry to halt migrant boats crossing from Libya.

This election marks a one-third reduction in the size of the two houses, and that appears to have benefited the winning parties.

A Rai TV exit poll suggested the three parties would hold 227-257 seats in the revamped 400-seat Chamber and 111-131 seats out of a total of 200 seats in the Senate. Mr Salvini said the right had a clear advantage in both houses.

The same Rai poll also reveals just how dominant the Meloni-led coalition is likely to be. The centre left would hold a mere 78-98 seats in the Chamber and 33-53 in the Senate.

BBC
 
A lot of places in the world are going right-wing. I wonder why.

I blame radical liberalism. It pushes people toward right.

I always oppose far-right as I believe it is extreme. But, I can see why right-wing parties may become more dominant.

Countries tend to vote for right wing populist policies / parties as a gamble, when lots of the citizens are already poor and have nothing to lose. This change in Italy will be the latest in a long line.

Although populist right wing politics tends to be very capitalist at heart, it has the veneer of being “for the people” so voters often view it as different.

The truth is that Marxism-Leninism (socialism/communism) and laissez-fair liberalist capitalism have both failed humanity comprehensively, so what is left?

Populist parties are thus a vote for “hope” amongst the hopeless, but often the governments lack political and fiscal experience & just make things even worse in the end.
 
But this is a blatent lie isn't it? She's not "far right". If you look at the policies you might called them moderate right-wing or even centre-right. Far right implies facism and extreme nationalism. What is far-right about her? Perhaps she doesn't conform to the globalist agenda, so that's why.
 
Im sorry that this sounds incredibly sexist but shes incredibly attractive for a right winger.

We are used to Farage, Nick Griffin etc when it comes to our RW here!
 
Last edited:
A lot of places in the world are going right-wing. I wonder why.

I blame radical liberalism. It pushes people toward right.

I always oppose far-right as I believe it is extreme. But, I can see why right-wing parties may become more dominant.

Far left and their penchant for globalization, uncontrolled immigration while ignoring the locals and their culture. You can only push the locals so far into the corner before they start pushing back.
 
But this is a blatent lie isn't it? She's not "far right". If you look at the policies you might called them moderate right-wing or even centre-right. Far right implies facism and extreme nationalism. What is far-right about her? Perhaps she doesn't conform to the globalist agenda, so that's why.

Anyone who does not confirm with far left is a racist and far right these days.
 
Far left and their penchant for globalization, uncontrolled immigration while ignoring the locals and their culture. You can only push the locals so far into the corner before they start pushing back.

Do you actually know if the vote has anything to do with immigration or are you just projecting your own thought processes here?
 
Did anyone hear her first speech after becoming pm. Most of it was dedicated to closing the borders d stopping immigration
 
It's an open secret. EU integration and fiscal policies are at the forefront of right wing political part agendas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/25/italy-election-results-meloni-right/

Italians have had enough. They want to control their own fiscal policies, borders, and politics.

UK govt also promised crowd pleasing action against immigration, but Truss is now preparing to import even more immigrants to deal with healthcare, farming and HGV shortages. Brexit has only led to one type of immigrant being replaced by another.

Illegal immigration is an obvious problem, but this is worse than ever under the Tory govt with record figures of boat people landing on our shores.
 
Some members here remind of the ***** Abdul in the EDL. Maybe they should join him the next time anyone marches
 
Illegal immigration needs to be stopped and legal immigration needs to be strictly controlled.
 
UK govt also promised crowd pleasing action against immigration, but Truss is now preparing to import even more immigrants to deal with healthcare, farming and HGV shortages. Brexit has only led to one type of immigrant being replaced by another.

Illegal immigration is an obvious problem, but this is worse than ever under the Tory govt with record figures of boat people landing on our shores.

Not sure what UK has to do with this unless you are drawing parallels with Brexit.

As for promised? You mean delivered, unfettered immigration is no longer possible in the UK as we are out of the EU. The issue with Brexit was never immigration, but those who entered free of will, especially via EU back channels. Now every immigrant has to pass tests and meet the HO standards before entering the UK. It worked very well before, will work again.

Unfettered immigration is the biggest problem within the EU simply because it cannot be controlled and has a massive effect on local economies - and we all know what austerity leads to.
 
Not sure what UK has to do with this unless you are drawing parallels with Brexit.

As for promised? You mean delivered, unfettered immigration is no longer possible in the UK as we are out of the EU. The issue with Brexit was never immigration, but those who entered free of will, especially via EU back channels. Now every immigrant has to pass tests and meet the HO standards before entering the UK. It worked very well before, will work again.

Unfettered immigration is the biggest problem within the EU simply because it cannot be controlled and has a massive effect on local economies - and we all know what austerity leads to.

Local economies seem to be in a lot worse shape than when we were part of the EU, and the banana boat people are arriving in even larger droves. I imagine it's the same in Italy, I don't think their far right politicians will have any answer either once the grandstand speeches are over.
 
Even In the USA. Republicans make all the noise about immigration. But when it comes to actual laws to curb it. They don’t do anything. Most if the illegal immigrants come to USA not by crossing the border but by legal means and then over stay. Republicans have never made an attempt to overhaul that aspect of the system. We are addicted to cheap labour.
 
Local economies seem to be in a lot worse shape than when we were part of the EU, and the banana boat people are arriving in even larger droves. I imagine it's the same in Italy, I don't think their far right politicians will have any answer either once the grandstand speeches are over.

Yup local economies were a lot worse compared to before the Eastern European block joined the EU.

It is the same in Italy, and across EU member states.

Austerity breeds fascism and crime.

Right wing parties and views are on the rise. France will be next, Poland and Hungary already making noise about leaving the EU, Denmark soon.

Italy is just a taster, and you can see how desperate Italy is, they voted a female PM for the first time in their history - this gives an indication of how much the EU is despised in Italy.
 
One question. If situation is bad, why are people arriving?

Simple, the FX rate. They try to find work and the currency they earn is stronger compared with back home.

This is why Eastern Europeans loved the UK, they were getting more bang for their buck, sending the cash home. Now the GBP has plummeted I suspect the UK will attract even less economic migrants.
 
The Remoaner playbook is out, Meloni supporter's are racists! :)))

Cannot wait for the EU to fail.

So proud UK made the right choice in 2016. No more banana immigrants via the back channels of the EU, no more subservience to the fascist, racist, and dictatorship that is the EU.

As ever, UK leading the trend.
 
Even In the USA. Republicans make all the noise about immigration. But when it comes to actual laws to curb it. They don’t do anything. Most if the illegal immigrants come to USA not by crossing the border but by legal means and then over stay. Republicans have never made an attempt to overhaul that aspect of the system. We are addicted to cheap labour.

It's the easiest way to compete in a global economy. That's why the Tories will never put a lid on immigrants, and it's also the reason why other western nations rely on immigration as well. All the banana boat scare stories are for catching votes only, when push comes to shove, those care home nans and gramps need their nappies changed regularly, and the locals aren't queueing up.
 
It's the easiest way to compete in a global economy. That's why the Tories will never put a lid on immigrants, and it's also the reason why other western nations rely on immigration as well. All the banana boat scare stories are for catching votes only, when push comes to shove, those care home nans and gramps need their nappies changed regularly, and the locals aren't queueing up.

Agreed
Nobody is going to roof your house , build roads or pick your vegetables in the heat in the USA, other than illegal immigrant from Mexico.
 
Do you actually know if the vote has anything to do with immigration or are you just projecting your own thought processes here?

Far right or right wing only grows in popularity when the left goes bonkers and swings too far to the left. The entire Europe is infested with illegal immigrants.

Below are just a few examples. Smaller nations cannot keep taking in thousands of immigrants from North and Subsaharan Africa. Plays right into the hands of Right wing who do not want these immigrants.

Below are just a few examples. When their cities and towns are over run by these immigrants, they feel threatened. People who don't speak their language or follow their culture or religion and do not look like them.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/t...talian-island-over-swell-of-economic-migrants

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DWadz78p9Vc" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UyCLVzL61_0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4pCC1DPn0BU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
lol I sometimes worry about some users basic understading.

She is no Nazi but a right politician.

What the BBC wont highlight too much is the main reason Italians and other Europeans are angry atm.

From the OP

"""Italy's economy was picking up after the Covid-19 pandemic, but then the energy crisis - largely triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine - sent prices soaring. While the politicians have spent recent days arguing over Russia and Europe, Italians are most worried about paying their bills."""

The likes of Biden, Truss and Sholz who are very wealthy people might want to continue the war even if people go broke or die of cold but the people of Europe are waking up to these elitist criminals.

No sane European wants to suffer economically for Nazi in Ukraine.

This is just the start , wait until Feb.
 
lol I sometimes worry about some users basic understading.

She is no Nazi but a right politician.

What the BBC wont highlight too much is the main reason Italians and other Europeans are angry atm.

From the OP

"""Italy's economy was picking up after the Covid-19 pandemic, but then the energy crisis - largely triggered by Russia's invasion of Ukraine - sent prices soaring. While the politicians have spent recent days arguing over Russia and Europe, Italians are most worried about paying their bills."""

The likes of Biden, Truss and Sholz who are very wealthy people might want to continue the war even if people go broke or die of cold but the people of Europe are waking up to these elitist criminals.

No sane European wants to suffer economically for Nazi in Ukraine.

This is just the start , wait until Feb.

Exactly, Biden, NATO, Liberals will not fess-up to the fact that the Ukraine war has influenced the election, and just because a leader seeks what is right for their country, doesn't make them a Nazi.

Economy always comes first in any election, and the people of Italy have chosen a leader whom they believe can bring about the change that is much long needed in Italy.
 
Far left and their penchant for globalization, uncontrolled immigration while ignoring the locals and their culture. You can only push the locals so far into the corner before they start pushing back.

That's not far left. Far left is protectionist.

What you refer to is neoliberalism - which is right wing.
 
lol I sometimes worry about some users basic understading.

She is no Nazi but a right politician.

She expresses admiration for Mussolini.

Would you be happier with "hard right nationalist identitarian" ?
 
Exactly, Biden, NATO, Liberals will not fess-up to the fact that the Ukraine war has influenced the election, and just because a leader seeks what is right for their country, doesn't make them a Nazi.

Economy always comes first in any election, and the people of Italy have chosen a leader whom they believe can bring about the change that is much long needed in Italy.

Yes as they say in Urdu/Hindi Roti,Kapra & Makaan.(Food,Clothing,Shelter) are the basics and most important issues for all people from any nation.

Italy - Petrol around 2 Euros per litre!

Inflation is climbing to over 10%.

Household bills have DOUBLED!

Italy have been turning off lights in supermarkets, restaurants and bars amongst other venues.

Putin has turned Europe back to the dark ages. Its time to accept Russia as a major power and come to some reconciliation. But I think Putin has moved on.
 
She expresses admiration for Mussolini.

Would you be happier with "hard right nationalist identitarian" ?

Im not Italian, its upto the people there to decide.

But lets just be real, the main reason for this vote by the people was due to huge rising costs.

Many in Europe have woken up to the fake liberals who are actually warmongers harming their nations and their lives. If there was a decent centre party, people would choose it but there isnt.
 
Im not Italian, its upto the people there to decide.

But lets just be real, the main reason for this vote by the people was due to huge rising costs.

Many in Europe have woken up to the fake liberals who are actually warmongers harming their nations and their lives. If there was a decent centre party, people would choose it but there isnt.

Her main beef was immigration. That’s what she ran on.
 
Im not Italian, its upto the people there to decide.

But lets just be real, the main reason for this vote by the people was due to huge rising costs.

Many in Europe have woken up to the fake liberals who are actually warmongers harming their nations and their lives. If there was a decent centre party, people would choose it but there isnt.

Liberal parties tend to be centrist economically. Who are these "fake liberals"? Johnson was hard right, Truss is hard right, Merkel was centre-right, Macron is right wing too.

Meloni is pro-NATO, by the way. The populist right tends to be big on the military - a sign of fascism, alongside demonisation of foreigners.
 
Yes as they say in Urdu/Hindi Roti,Kapra & Makaan.(Food,Clothing,Shelter) are the basics and most important issues for all people from any nation.

Italy - Petrol around 2 Euros per litre!

Inflation is climbing to over 10%.

Household bills have DOUBLED!

Italy have been turning off lights in supermarkets, restaurants and bars amongst other venues.

Putin has turned Europe back to the dark ages. Its time to accept Russia as a major power and come to some reconciliation. But I think Putin has moved on.

Yup, the West just have to accept the fact Putin played Europe like a cheap $5 Banjo.

As I mentioned in the other thread, Putin has acheived his economical goals, has achieved his goals to disrupt and decentralise Europe, and is now working on BRICS+. Europe isn't even in the rear view mirror as far as Putin is concerned.

Italy is just the start though. Other EU members will follow suit, and the best part is France and Germany cannot even agree on Russia! The cracks are widening.

Putin is sleeping cosy this winter.
 
Liberal parties tend to be centrist economically. Who are these "fake liberals"? Johnson was hard right, Truss is hard right, Merkel was centre-right, Macron is right wing too.

Meloni is pro-NATO, by the way. The populist right tends to be big on the military - a sign of fascism, alongside demonisation of foreigners.

Mostly the Europeans , we both know the likes of Boris and Truss dont know the definition of the word. Try the more wealthy and more civilised European nations. When pro Ukrainians support the Azov Nazis this souldnt be an issue.

I know in the past you said you dont care as you ride a bike but now many other bills have gone up, not to mention the £ becoming worthless. Do you still agree ordinary people SHOULD SUFFER as long as the bombs, guns and missiles keep arriving Ukraine? Italians now dont.
 
Yup, the West just have to accept the fact Putin played Europe like a cheap $5 Banjo.

As I mentioned in the other thread, Putin has acheived his economical goals, has achieved his goals to disrupt and decentralise Europe, and is now working on BRICS+. Europe isn't even in the rear view mirror as far as Putin is concerned.

Italy is just the start though. Other EU members will follow suit, and the best part is France and Germany cannot even agree on Russia! The cracks are widening.

Putin is sleeping cosy this winter.

Yes, I think Germany will see massive protests soon. Germans if continue on this path are going to see 3 millions jobs lost and possibly run out of gas reserves by Feb.
 
Yes as they say in Urdu/Hindi Roti,Kapra & Makaan.(Food,Clothing,Shelter) are the basics and most important issues for all people from any nation.

Italy - Petrol around 2 Euros per litre!

Inflation is climbing to over 10%.

Household bills have DOUBLED!

Italy have been turning off lights in supermarkets, restaurants and bars amongst other venues.

Putin has turned Europe back to the dark ages. Its time to accept Russia as a major power and come to some reconciliation. But I think Putin has moved on.

Indeed.

I doubt regular people care much about what happens in Ukraine or other places. They want their own houses in order first.
 
Lets remind ourselves what Liberals/NATO apologists said in response to fighting Russia for liberation in the corner of Europe- wait for this - It's a price worth paying

Quote of the millennium.
 
Indeed.

I doubt regular people care much about what happens in Ukraine or other places. They want their own houses in order first.

Lets remind ourselves what Liberals/NATO apologists said in response to fighting Russia for liberation in the corner of Europe- wait for this - It's a price worth paying

Quote of the millennium.

Reminder...Here is the leader of the so called Free World, explaining it all and reasons why..

Nato will stick with Ukraine as long as it takes, says Joe Biden
This article is more than 2 months old
US president says he does not know how war will end, but ‘it will not end with a Russian defeat of Ukraine’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...th-ukraine-as-long-as-it-takes-says-joe-biden

It seems it will take so long the dark ages are literally returning. :))
 
Indeed.

I doubt regular people care much about what happens in Ukraine or other places. They want their own houses in order first.

I think this is spot on to be honest.

In the end, it all comes down to the money available to each household for the absolute essentials such as food, clothes, bedding, fuel, heating, medicine, etc. What people need to live.

Wealthy people can afford to absorb the additional cost of their country being at war, but most people are not wealthy and so they (we) are seriously feeling it at the moment.

And this is not like being under the constant threat of invasion by Germany, getting bombed every night and scrapping for our lives, therefore accepting our meagre weekly rations with our family book. In that situation, what can one do.

This conversely is an overseas war, where we are involved mainly through our government’s proactive choice to be indirectly present in the region due to its own foreign policy position.
 
Mostly the Europeans , we both know the likes of Boris and Truss dont know the definition of the word. Try the more wealthy and more civilised European nations. When pro Ukrainians support the Azov Nazis this souldnt be an issue.

I know in the past you said you dont care as you ride a bike but now many other bills have gone up, not to mention the £ becoming worthless. Do you still agree ordinary people SHOULD SUFFER as long as the bombs, guns and missiles keep arriving Ukraine? Italians now dont.

This is the point I have made a few times in the Russia/Ukraine thread. It's fine to fight wars on principle, but Brits have never had to learn to live without affordable heat and energy for half a century. I can't speak for Italy, but our winters are long. I doubt the less well off are going to appreciate funding this proxy war unless it is explained better why it is worth it.
 
I think this is spot on to be honest.

In the end, it all comes down to the money available to each household for the absolute essentials such as food, clothes, bedding, fuel, heating, medicine, etc. What people need to live.

Wealthy people can afford to absorb the additional cost of their country being at war, but most people are not wealthy and so they (we) are seriously feeling it at the moment.

And this is not like being under the constant threat of invasion by Germany, getting bombed every night and scrapping for our lives, therefore accepting our meagre weekly rations with our family book. In that situation, what can one do.

This conversely is an overseas war, where we are involved mainly through our government’s proactive choice to be indirectly present in the region due to its own foreign policy position.

Voters only care about money in their pocket, which is why the 2 most divisive PMs in UK history are also the longest serving, Thatcher and Blair - no coincidence that UK experienced the biggest economical boom during their tenure as PM.

Money is all that matters, which is why austerity and prosperity are the only gauge.
 
KKK also have the same views on family, LGBT etc. If they ran for election I wonder how many EDL Abduls will support them?

Generally though I agree. Europeans won't tolerate the upcoming winter.
 
Yup, the West just have to accept the fact Putin played Europe like a cheap $5 Banjo.

As I mentioned in the other thread, Putin has acheived his economical goals, has achieved his goals to disrupt and decentralise Europe, and is now working on BRICS+. Europe isn't even in the rear view mirror as far as Putin is concerned.

Italy is just the start though. Other EU members will follow suit, and the best part is France and Germany cannot even agree on Russia! The cracks are widening.

Putin is sleeping cosy this winter.

I think Putin is hiding in some forest and we speak. Sorry resting
 
Listening to Meloni, I don’t think she is far right. More of a right wing social conservative. Far right seems to have lost all meaning as a term. (Hard right is more of a made up term)
 
Mostly the Europeans , we both know the likes of Boris and Truss dont know the definition of the word. Try the more wealthy and more civilised European nations. When pro Ukrainians support the Azov Nazis this souldnt be an issue.

I know in the past you said you dont care as you ride a bike but now many other bills have gone up, not to mention the £ becoming worthless. Do you still agree ordinary people SHOULD SUFFER as long as the bombs, guns and missiles keep arriving Ukraine? Italians now dont.

The devaluation of Sterling is due to Tory economic incompetence, not the war. The rise in food prices is due to Brexit so people brought that on themselves.

Italy has barely contributed to UKR’s defence anyway, and they are not going to get cold this winter. They have decades of economic mismanagement to blame for their current crisis.

I think we have a responsibility to safeguard freedom and democracy for fellow Europeans. We are doing exactly the right thing there.

This government is now reaping the bitter harvest of allowing Russian oligarch money to corrupt our politics. I have warning of this for years and now it has all come to pass.

The government could have windfall taxed the oil companies to push down electricity prices for ordinary folk, but have carried out the suicidal move of borrowing more, threatening Sterling further.

We must stop thinking short-term and become self-sufficient in energy through renewables and nuclear. Look at France - their electricity bills have barely increased because they have 24 reactors to our four.
 
I think Putin is hiding in some forest and we speak. Sorry resting

I think he is backed into a corner. If he can’t win in UKR he will be deposed. This means he could do something crazy like use battlefield nukes.
 
Listening to Meloni, I don’t think she is far right. More of a right wing social conservative. Far right seems to have lost all meaning as a term. (Hard right is more of a made up term)

Hard right is a term I heard in my youth a lot to mean Thatcherism. Truss and the Britannia Unchained gang fit the bill. It means an authoritarian approach to law and order plus reliance on markets to fix everything.
 
Food prices have gone up in Europe as a whole, yet Brexit is still being blamed.

How can the UK issues be resolved when the so called wiser generations do not even understand the problem let alone elementary economics.

After the COVID lockdown there was a sudden demand for everything, this contributed to the inflation we are experiencing - no coincidence that as the lock downs ended, prices started going up.

Labour and their fiscal policies ensured that that QE was the only answer to the debacle that was the financial crisis in 2008. QE will return again because the entire Western system is a one giant pyramid scam.

Once again Liberals are just finger pointing.

Italy has been suffering since 2008 like many Western economies that rely on predatory capitalism.

What has happened in Italy is a symptom of irresponsible fiscal policies of the West which relies on debt to give the illusion of prosperity.
 
And remember, the LD party were also responsible for amy blame as they were in power between 2010 and 2015 too.

Not to say anything of the fact that the BoE is completely independent to the government.

Understand the basics, understand the problem.
 
Italy's far-right leader Giorgia Meloni and her coalition allies have met President Sergio Mattarella and say they are ready to form a government "as quickly as possible".

He is set to ask Ms Meloni in the coming hours to become prime minister.

Veteran ex-Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi attended the brief talks, despite shaking the coalition's unity with leaked pro-Putin remarks.

Ms Meloni has sought to assure Italy's Western allies nothing will change.

The Brothers of Italy leader could be sworn in as early as this weekend as the country's first female prime minister - and first far-right leader since World War Two. She said her coalition of right-wing and far-right parties was unanimous that she should lead Italy.

Ahead of Friday's 11-minute meeting, she said they were "ready to give Italy a government that confronts with awareness and competence the urgency and challenges of our time".

Less than a month after Italians voted for a new Senate and Chamber of Deputies, she is set to replace Mario Draghi, who was due to return from an EU summit on Friday.

Alongside Ms Meloni at the presidential palace were Matteo Salvini of the far-right League and Mr Berlusconi - the 86-year-old head of centre-right Forza Italia - who for days has been at the centre of a row surrounding two leaked recordings underlining his pro-Putin views.

In the first audio leak, he was heard boasting that Russian President Vladimir Putin had sent him 20 bottles of vodka for his birthday and called him "number one among his five best friends".

Then, in a leaked speech to party colleagues, he backed Russia's pretext for its war, baselessly blaming Ukraine's president and the West for pushing the Kremlin into an invasion.

He insists his remarks were taken out of context and that he backs the Italian and EU position on Ukraine. However, his pro-Putin comments are nothing new: last month he told Italian TV that Russia's leader had merely sought to replace Volodymyr Zelensky with a "government of decent people".

The leaks piled pressure on Giorgia Meloni, 45. Her other far-right ally, League leader Matteo Salvini, has also long been seen as a Putin admirer, but Ms Meloni needs both men in her coalition to form a majority.

BBC
 
I watched a massive demo in Rome from a trattoria while sipping cappuccino. Must have been ten thousand marchers. Unions and 🌈 Pride mostly.
 
Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian former PM who overcame various scandals to hold office four times, has died at 86.

He died at the San Raffaele hospital in Milan. In April, he was treated for a lung infection linked to leukaemia.

Berlusconi's death leaves a "huge void", Italy's defence minister said, with a national day of mourning due to take place on Wednesday.

The longest-serving prime minister in post-war Italy, he had bounced back from sex scandals and corruption cases.

After taking political office in 1994, the billionaire media tycoon led four governments until 2011 - though not consecutively.

Last September, Berlusconi's centre-right Forza Italia party went into coalition under right-wing Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.

Reacting to the news, Ms Meloni remembered her predecessor as a "fighter". In a video message, she said he remained "one of the most influential men in the history of Italy".

Her deputy Matteo Salvini said he was "broken" and thanked Berlusconi for his "friendship", "advice" and "generosity".

Defence Minister Guido Crosetto said: "An era is over... Farewell Silvio." His death left a "huge void", Mr Crosetto added in a tweet.

The Italian government has declared a national day of mourning for Wednesday, the same day Berlusconi's funeral is scheduled to take place at Milan Cathedral.

"All Italian and European flags on public buildings will be lowered to half mast from Monday nationwide," a spokesman told the media.

Another figure to pay tribute was Vladimir Putin, who called Berlusconi a "true friend". In a statement the Russian President said he had always admired Berlusconi's "wisdom" and "ability to make balanced, far-sighted decisions".

The former Italian leader had been suffering from a rare form of blood cancer, chronic myelomonocyte leukaemia, doctors at San Raffaele revealed in April.

He had repeated health problems after contracting Covid in 2020. So far, there has been no official confirmation of the precise cause of death.
 
Back
Top