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Jamjar Golliwogs, and The Black & White Ministrel Show

Yossarian

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Can you imagine nowadays having Robertson's jam jar Golliwogs, prime time tv shows like The Black & White Ministrel Show, and sitcom's like It Ain't Half Hot Mum, Love Thy Neighbour and Mind Your Language?

Robertson's jam jar Golliwog.

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The Black & White Ministrel Show

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It Ain't Half Hot Mum

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Mind Your Language

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Love Thy Neighbour

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Till Death Us Do Part

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And that's Antony Booth second from the right, father of Cherie Booth (wife of Tony Blair former PM) - Yes, Tony Blair's Father-in-Law!
 
I remember watching a C4 documentary "It Was Alright in the 70s" which looked at some of these TV shows.

It was jawdropping to see what was allowed back then.

The irony of the Alf Garnett character is that in real life he was a socialist and despised everything about the person that was his on-screen persona.
 
The important thing to remember about Love thy Neighbour is that the black guy always won, and the white guy always ended up looking like an idiot.

Sometimes the black wife and white wife united to put the men in their place, showing that multiculturalism can work.
 
The important thing to remember about Love thy Neighbour is that the black guy always won, and the white guy always ended up looking like an idiot.

Sometimes the black wife and white wife united to put the men in their place, showing that multiculturalism can work.

You could argue then that Love thy Neighbour was actually ahead of it's time and viewed (black) minorities in a sympathetic light. I think that's fair. Blacks compared to Indians/Pakistanis generally do get a more favourable portrayal in the entertainment world, possibly because they blend into the host culture more readily.
 
The important thing to remember about Love thy Neighbour is that the black guy always won, and the white guy always ended up looking like an idiot.

Sometimes the black wife and white wife united to put the men in their place, showing that multiculturalism can work.
Whilst I accept that in those days, even on tv, it was the norm to call blacks "Sambo", "N1gg3r" and various other derogatory names, and compare them to jungle animals, neverthless you appear to be suggesting that it was ok to do so as proof of multiculturalism working simply because the black guy won in the end ?

I believe that the racism expressed, which was copied by the general public, even by those who had never come accross a black person, was far worse and outweighed the 'benefits' of the subtle notion that the black guy wins! For a start, school kids copied these racist expressions and grew up thinking it was ok and funny to throw racial abuse.

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Yoss, do you think school kids copied the terms used on those shows, or was it that those shows merely reflected the everyday language and perceptions of a lot of white English folk in general?
 
Yoss, do you think school kids copied the terms used on those shows, or was it that those shows merely reflected the everyday language and perceptions of a lot of white English folk in general?
Both. Kids copied the terms from these tv shows and used them in the playground. They also saw their parents using the terms. Meaning that as they grew up it became part of their everyday language. Which in turn allowed the tv shows (like those in the OP) and comedians like Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson to justify using these terms in their shows because they were reflecting the use of everyday language. A case of chicken & egg.

That's why there are some are who say that these terms are still used (mainly in private) far more widely than one may realise. E.g. All these young BNP types didn't suddenly wake up one morning and started using these racist terms - they picked them up from those around them in the communities and society where they live, work, socialise and where (most likely) the use of these terms in everyday language is commonplace.

(Allegedly) Bernard Manning was using these terms in his sellout shows right up until he died in 2007. Meaning that thousands were coming to his shows on a regular basis to listen to, laugh at and enjoy him using (allegedly) racist language. And they weren't all classic BNP type supporters but everyday folk who wouldn't consider themselves as being racist.
 
Whilst I accept that in those days, even on tv, it was the norm to call blacks "Sambo", "N1gg3r" and various other derogatory names, and compare them to jungle animals, neverthless you appear to be suggesting that it was ok to do so as proof of multiculturalism working simply because the black guy won in the end ?

Read my post again.
 
Yoss, do you think school kids copied the terms used on those shows, or was it that those shows merely reflected the everyday language and perceptions of a lot of white English folk in general?

When Roots was on BBC1 the stronger lads at my school started pretending to be Masters and whip the weaker boys.
 
You could argue then that Love thy Neighbour was actually ahead of it's time and viewed (black) minorities in a sympathetic light. I think that's fair. Blacks compared to Indians/Pakistanis generally do get a more favourable portrayal in the entertainment world, possibly because they blend into the host culture more readily.

Sure, there were black comedians making us laugh, black footballers making us cheer, black musicians making us dance.
 
Sure, there were black comedians making us laugh, black footballers making us cheer, black musicians making us dance.

You forgot the black footballers picking up bananas being tossed by the supporters when they first started making a name for themselves in English football.
 
But looking at these videos in context, they mark the evolution of Britain as a mature multicultural country over the last half century. People of different cultures and ethnic make up all co-inhabiting the same space means that you learn to live together for better or worse. Probably the most racist and intolerant areas of the UK are the ones where non-whites have never really settled, and these tend to be insular and fearful.

You would probably find a similar situation in developing countries where they have never seen outsiders much either, so I wouldn't be surprised if in poorer Asian countries there is also racism and ignorance. They are much further behind the evolutionary scale than the more developed western world.
 
But looking at these videos in context, they mark the evolution of Britain as a mature multicultural country over the last half century. People of different cultures and ethnic make up all co-inhabiting the same space means that you learn to live together for better or worse. Probably the most racist and intolerant areas of the UK are the ones where non-whites have never really settled, and these tend to be insular and fearful.

You would probably find a similar situation in developing countries where they have never seen outsiders much either, so I wouldn't be surprised if in poorer Asian countries there is also racism and ignorance. They are much further behind the evolutionary scale than the more developed western world.
How does that then explain the likes of the BNP and the (anti-immigrant) stance of so many Brexiteers considering that many of the areas that heavily voted Brexit, and where the BNP support (amongst the white population of those areas) is strong, also have large non-white immigrant populations?

In my opinion the racism and attitudes of the type you see in these video clips never really went away. To a large extent it just became more subtle and moved behind closed doors, and Brexit/post-Brexit allowed it think it was safe again to start peeping it's head out from behind the window curtains.

Just as the average Joe in the 70's (the period where most of those tv shows in the clips are from) didn't think he was being racist by using those terms, the Kippers and (some) Brexiteers, with their xenophobic anti-immigrant paranoia, also don't believe that there is anything wrong or racist about their views.
 
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You forgot the black footballers picking up bananas being tossed by the supporters when they first started making a name for themselves in English football.

No, I didn't. Football was a recruiting ground for the NF. But eventually the football fans were all won over and now racism is anathema.

Compare to Russia and Turkey where the banana thing still happens regularlty.
 
No, I didn't. Football was a recruiting ground for the NF. But eventually the football fans were all won over and now racism is anathema.

Compare to Russia and Turkey where the banana thing still happens regularlty.

Why would we compare ourselves to Russia or Turkey? Since when did we ever judge ourselves by their standards?
 
South Asian television is still that racist.
Must be showing lots of re-runs of The Black & White Ministrel Show, It Ain't Half Hot Mum, Love Thy Neighbour, Mind Your Language and similar British tv shows of the 70's and 80's then. Are Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson very popular over there?

Why would we compare ourselves to Russia or Turkey? Since when did we ever judge ourselves by their standards?
Replace "Russia or Turkey" with "South Asia" in Cpt. Rishwat's quote above.
 
Why would we compare ourselves to Russia or Turkey? Since when did we ever judge ourselves by their standards?

To show how far we have come as a multicultural, multiracial nation. What do you want me to say, Cap? We are talking about integration by BME people in the UK some of the routes for that. It took a bit longer for comedians of Asian and Middle eastern origin to come through but now we have Sanjeev Baskar, Shappi Khorsandi and Omid Dhalli all doing well and informing our culture. We have plenty of outstanding British Asian and African Muslim athletes. Mo Farrah is a national treasure.
 
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To show how far we have come as a multicultural, multiracial nation. What do you want me to say, Cap? We are talking about integration by BME people in the UK some of the routes for that. It took a bit longer for comedians of Asian and Middle eastern origin to come through but now we have Sanjeev Baskar, Shappi Khorsandi and Omid Dhalli all doing well and informing our culture. We have plenty of outstanding British Asian and African Muslim athletes. Mo Farrah is a national treasure.

Oh yeah, I made that point earlier as well. We are The developed nations are a million miles ahead of the lesser advanced ones, but oddly enough multiculturalism has gotten a bad rap over the last decade - yet it's the more multicultural ones that are at the top of the tree.
 
Must be showing lots of re-runs of The Black & White Ministrel Show, It Ain't Half Hot Mum, Love Thy Neighbour, Mind Your Language and similar British tv shows of the 70's and 80's then. Are Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson very popular over there?

Replace "Russia or Turkey" with "South Asia" in Cpt. Rishwat's quote above.
I've never lived in south asia lol, I'm talking about the shows we get in America on desi channels. You can see videos on youtube where Pakistani comedians make fun of west indian and sri Lankan cricketers cause of their skin color. They also say racist jokes about pakhtuns and black Baloch people.
 
I've never lived in south asia lol, I'm talking about the shows we get in America on desi channels. You can see videos on youtube where Pakistani comedians make fun of west indian and sri Lankan cricketers cause of their skin color. They also say racist jokes about pakhtuns and black Baloch people.
I don't watch desi channels. Even on youtube. Neither do the vast majority of the British, not that I'm aware of anyway. Besides, the tv shows mentioned in the OP were not aimed at South Asia viewers - or at Americans
 
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