JW Marriott Dubai fires Atul Kochhar over anti-Islamic tweet to Priyanka Chopra

[Slog]

Let's not whitewash history. The atrocities of Muslim invaders in the Indian subcontinent have been well-documented. I don't want to derail this topic by going into too much detail, so I will only provide a very brief overview.

Muslims had no business invading other nations and were no different to the neocon Americans who believe in their supremacy. The narrative that we have been sold over the generations of how the Muslims conquerers saved us from tyrannical non-Muslims rulers couldn't be further from the truth.

There is a good reason why Sindhis do not like the Arabs. The ignorant people here should read Chach Nama, the actual history of Sindh, penned by Sindhis in Sindhi.

When Muhammad bin Qasim invaded Sindh and usurped Raja Dahir, the last Hindu ruler of Sindh and our real hero, his daughter took revenged by tying him up and stitching him in the carcasses of a bull. He was dragged along the scorching desert of Sindh and he was baked inside the bull, which served the purpose of an oven.

He was then shipped to Syria. This was the fate of the Muslim invader whom we now consider a hero who played a big role in the liberation and enlightenment of South Asia.

Another grave fact is that origination of Sati, i.e. the practice of Hindu women burning themselves after the death of their husbands. When Muslims invaders butchered Hindu men, they would rape the women. In order to protect their dignity, the women were left with no choice but to take their own lives.

This is why Sati was common in North-West India, and virtually unheard of in the South because Muslims invaders failed in the South. However, history has been re-written and in order to hide their atrocities, Muslims now paint a different narrative and argue that the practice of Sati was deep-rooted in India long before Muslims arrived, even though, the historical proofs do not back their false claims.

History is ugly, it always is. History of Muslims and their conquests is no different to any other empire, who committed all the atrocities that they were capable of to have their way. It is a fact that Muslims have tortured and oppressed Hindus, and it is bitter truth about our history that we should accept and not hide.

ChachNama is penned by Sindhis? You do know it's a translation and not penned by Sindhis )

As for Sati - There's records of that from as far back as the 5th century before Islam was even revealed. Unless these Muslim invaders had a time machine I have no idea what you are on about

 

[Slog]

ChachNama is penned by Sindhis? You do know it's a translation and not penned by Sindhis )

As for Sati - There's records of that from as far back as the 5th century before Islam was even revealed. Unless these Muslim invaders had a time machine I have no idea what you are on about

Well having gone through the rest of the thread it is clear Mamoon is a bit out of depth on this thread topic and is making up quite a few things either on the fly or based on his personal viewpoints.
[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] generally seems to be a decent knowledgeable poster regarding history topics despite his over the top glorification of Rajputs sometimes

On a final note - Invasions into what constituted British India and subsequent plunder aren't an exclusively Muslim invaders thing and was happening for centuries before that. However you don't hear much hoopla about that so it's clear that this is based on a political angle. Heck plunder and destruction has happened within what British colonialists termed as India even by one Indian empire on another

 

[Swashbuckler]

Mamoon thats a big big lie on your part and honestly now I'm not even sure whether you have read anything about history of South India.
I urge you read more on Mughal campaigns in South and how after end of fierce resistance by Malik Ambar they managed to take almost all of South under their control (Shivaji and Marathas aside but thats a different topic altogether)

You didn't answer my earlier question. Do you consider TN and Kerala as part of South India or a separate landmass? In that case you will need to elaborate why every single temple is standing here and there is no trace of Mughal architecture or culture. Either you are totally out of your depth when it comes to Tamil history or the Islamic invaders as you claim didn't have the habit of pulling down temples.

 

[El Generico]

Let's not whitewash history. The atrocities of Muslim invaders in the Indian subcontinent have been well-documented. I don't want to derail this topic by going into too much detail, so I will only provide a very brief overview.

Muslims had no business invading other nations and were no different to the neocon Americans who believe in their supremacy. The narrative that we have been sold over the generations of how the Muslims conquerers saved us from tyrannical non-Muslims rulers couldn't be further from the truth.

There is a good reason why Sindhis do not like the Arabs. The ignorant people here should read Chach Nama, the actual history of Sindh, penned by Sindhis in Sindhi.

When Muhammad bin Qasim invaded Sindh and usurped Raja Dahir, the last Hindu ruler of Sindh and our real hero, his daughter took revenged by tying him up and stitching him in the carcasses of a bull. He was dragged along the scorching desert of Sindh and he was baked inside the bull, which served the purpose of an oven.

He was then shipped to Syria. This was the fate of the Muslim invader whom we now consider a hero who played a big role in the liberation and enlightenment of South Asia.

Another grave fact is that origination of Sati, i.e. the practice of Hindu women burning themselves after the death of their husbands. When Muslims invaders butchered Hindu men, they would rape the women. In order to protect their dignity, the women were left with no choice but to take their own lives.

This is why Sati was common in North-West India, and virtually unheard of in the South because Muslims invaders failed in the South. However, history has been re-written and in order to hide their atrocities, Muslims now paint a different narrative and argue that the practice of Sati was deep-rooted in India long before Muslims arrived, even though, the historical proofs do not back their false claims.

History is ugly, it always is. History of Muslims and their conquests is no different to any other empire, who committed all the atrocities that they were capable of to have their way. It is a fact that Muslims have tortured and oppressed Hindus, and it is bitter truth about our history that we should accept and not hide.

Mention of the practice can be dated back to the 3rd century BC,[6] .

Got this from wkipedia which uses the book The First Spring: The Golden Age of India as a source.What Muslim
King was there in the 3rd century?


Its clear you are either misinformed or making stuff up. Whatever the case, the fact you made up stories about origins of Sati, takes away credibility from your lengthy essay.

 

[Swashbuckler]

This isn't 100% accurate but will give a general idea about history of the Indian subcontinent.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Many apologists ganging up against Mamoon because he mistook jauhar for sati. Jauhar was the practice of mass suicide to escape from the barbarian invaders, who seem to have many defenders because of shared faith. Shame on those who glorify the barbarians.

 

[TM Riddle]

Well having gone through the rest of the thread it is clear Mamoon is a bit out of depth on this thread topic and is making up quite a few things either on the fly or based on his personal viewpoints.

[MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION] generally seems to be a decent knowledgeable poster regarding history topics despite his over the top glorification of Rajputs sometimes

On a final note - Invasions into what constituted British India and subsequent plunder aren't an exclusively Muslim invaders thing and was happening for centuries before that. However you don't hear much hoopla about that so it's clear that this is based on a political angle. Heck plunder and destruction has happened within what British colonialists termed as India even by one Indian empire on another

He must have mixed Jauhar with Sati which are two often mixed up.
There are evidences of Sati dating as far back to Vedic times. It was hugely popular in the Chola kingdom down south as well.
Jauhar imo began after Muslim attacks in North India became a common sight.
It had two components : Jauhar and Shaka.
Under this, when the seige was about to be lifted and defeat was certain(owing to large numerical superiority of the enemy), Rajputs would ready themselves to go into the final battle of their lifetime. They would clean themselves up via ritual bathing, Vedic ceremonies would be held, kesariya(, saffron) cloth would be tied around their heads, Tulsi leaves in mouth and Tika on the forehead. After having aarti and Pooja done by their wives, they would storm outside to face enemy one last time. The goal was to die and take as many as you can with you. This brutal practice was known as Shaka and there has been many incidences of it in areas of former Rajput stronghold.

In the meantimeThe Rajput women would ready themselves up by wearing bridal dress and after the completion of religious ceremonies would go into the funeral pyre collectively.
Remember this happened before the eyes of their husbands and right before the Shaka was performed(unlike Sati which was done after the husband was dead).
After watching their wives burnt to crisp, the medieval Rajputs would hurry up themselves so as to join them in afterlife as soon as they could.

This was of course a backward practice but those were different times. Brutal times.
The reason why the women burnt themselves up and not simply consumed poison was to prevent their dead bodies from getting desecrated by invading armies which was a common practice.

 

[Musakhel]

Most punjabi rajputs are muslim around 20million or so in Pakistan, I don't think there are many punjabi rajputs in India, the rajputs there are rajasthani and other types.

 

[TM Riddle]

Most punjabi rajputs are muslim around 20million or so in Pakistan, I don't think there are many punjabi rajputs in India, the rajputs there are rajasthani and other types.

Yes 99 percent Punjabi Rajputs are muslim and are present in Pakistan.

In India we cover pretty the whole northern belt from Himachal to MP and Bihar to Gujarat.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Most punjabi rajputs are muslim around 20million or so in Pakistan, I don't think there are many punjabi rajputs in India, the rajputs there are rajasthani and other types.

They are there and always have been. Except that part of Punjab is now called Himachal pardesh.

 

[enkidu_]

'Sati' is different from 'jauhar', but both are Hindu innovations pre-dating Muslim warriors. Considering that [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is highly intellectual, here's an academic source on the subject :

Internecine warfare among the Rajput kingdoms almost certainly supplied the first occasions for jauhar, well before the Muslim invasions with which the practice is popularly associated. Padmini, the queen of Chitor who has been immortalized by the balladeers of Rajasthan, is sometimes thought to be the best-commemorated example of sati; but actually her death was by jauhar, and that is quite a different thing.
(...)
The geopolitics of the northwest, whence a succession of invaders entered the subcontinent, made of Rajasthan a continual war zone, and its socially most respected community was therefore not the Brahmins but the kshatriya or Rajput castes, who controlled and defended the land. This history predates the coming of the Muslims by more than a millennium. Commemorative stones unearthed and dated in Rajasthan and Vijayanagara mark the deaths of both sexes. Their dates, which can be reliably determined, match perfectly the times and zones of war, a point to which Vidya Dehejia draws attention in this volume. Rajput martial values were a product of their own historical circumstances, although they were later exploited and molded into a supposed racial identity by colonial bureaucrats who had their own purposes for doing so.

Veena Talwar Oldenburg, Comment: The Continuing Invention of the Sati Tradition in John Stratton Hawley (ed.), Sati, the Blessing and the Curse: The Burning of Wives in India, Oxford University Press (1994), p. 165

By the way : was the Manu-Smriti modeled on 'creeping Sharia' as well ?

 

[TM Riddle]

They are there and always have been. Except that part of Punjab is now called Himachal pardesh.

Not whole Himachal was part of Punjab btw. Pahari Rajputs had their own History distinct from their Punjabi brethren who share common clans with the ones from Rajasthan.
Thus the martial Ghorewahas of Punjab are actually a subclan of Kachhwahas(same as mine) who ruled over Jaipur. Similarly in Sindh as well there are many common clans as well for example Sodhas, Chauhans etc.

Bhuttos if I'm not wrong are Rajputs from Rajasthan who are recent converts.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Stay on topic please.No more rubbish posts.

 

[TM Riddle]

'Sati' is different from 'jauhar', but both are Hindu innovations pre-dating Muslim warriors. Considering that [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is highly intellectual, here's an academic source on the subject :



Veena Talwar Oldenburg, Comment: The Continuing Invention of the Sati Tradition in John Stratton Hawley (ed.), Sati, the Blessing and the Curse: The Burning of Wives in India, Oxford University Press (1994), p. 165

By the way : was the Manu-Smriti modeled on 'creeping Sharia' as well ?

While there might have been instances of Jauhar before Muslim invasions, it remains a fact that the intensity of Jauhars increased significantly with the start of Turkic invasions. And more often than not they did justify it in the name of Islam. While of course the reasons were political but they used the name of religion for their petty gains.

Honestly it baffles me Everytime you people glorify these invaders. They killed both Hindus and Muslims alike.
Babar for instance razed Lahore to the ground at the time of his conquest in India and before Akbar when Mughals were trying to get a foothold in India,
chief Muslim power of Hindustan i.e Afghans/Pashtuns were BFF with Rajputs to drive the Invaders out.

In the famous battle of Haldighati, Maharana Pratap's army was lead by Hakim Khan Sur, a Pashtun. Similar in the battle of Khanwa Rana Sanga's army had Pashtun contingents of Lodhi dynasty.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Many apologists ganging up against Mamoon because he mistook jauhar for sati. Jauhar was the practice of mass suicide to escape from the barbarian invaders, who seem to have many defenders because of shared faith. Shame on those who glorify the barbarians.

Jauhar is just another form of honour killing in that it is linked to a woman's izzat, an outdated concept which today's societies could never accept. Women would have been expected to commit mass suicide through societal pressure so they wouldn't fall into the hands of the invaders, but death should be an individual choice, not one imposed by society.

 

[TM Riddle]

Jauhar is just another form of honour killing in that it is linked to a woman's izzat, an outdated concept which today's societies could never accept. Women would have been expected to commit mass suicide through societal pressure so they wouldn't fall into the hands of the invaders, but death should be an individual choice, not one imposed by society.

That's true but on the other hand men prepared themselves to die as well. It wasn't as if they forced their wives to committ suicide and enjoyed fruits of serving under the Invaders afterwards. Both died at the same time. So yeah it's a backward concept and rightly condemned in the modern times but can't really be compared to honor killings I'm afraid.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's true but on the other hand men prepared themselves to die as well. It wasn't as if they forced their wives to committ suicide and enjoyed fruits of serving under the Invaders afterwards. Both died at the same time. So yeah it's a backward concept and rightly condemned in the modern times but can't really be compared to honor killings I'm afraid.

I think the comparison is apt, just a matter of degree. Honour killing is worse because all form of choice is taken away, but jauhar in itself would have been similar in that women would be expected to take their own lives whether they wished to or not. Definitely honour is involved, and the women end up dead, so the link is there.

 

[TM Riddle]

I think the comparison is apt, just a matter of degree. Honour killing is worse because all form of choice is taken away, but jauhar in itself would have been similar in that women would be expected to take their own lives whether they wished to or not. Definitely honour is involved, and the women end up dead, so the link is there.

Yes the link is there but it at least made sense in that era. In those times being captured meant sex slaves in market or sent straight to King's harem. Now we may argue over whether it's sensible to die over some stupid honor but things that waited for those noble women(esp infidels) after being captured were far worse than death in those times.
And I don't think coercion was involved. Brainwashing yes but not force.

 

[enkidu_]

While there might have been instances of Jauhar before Muslim invasions, it remains a fact that the intensity of Jauhars increased significantly with the start of Turkic invasions. And more often than not they did justify it in the name of Islam. While of course the reasons were political but they used the name of religion for their petty gains.

Honestly it baffles me Everytime you people glorify these invaders. They killed both Hindus and Muslims alike.
Babar for instance razed Lahore to the ground at the time of his conquest in India and before Akbar when Mughals were trying to get a foothold in India,
chief Muslim power of Hindustan i.e Afghans/Pashtuns were BFF with Rajputs to drive the Invaders out.

In the famous battle of Haldighati, Maharana Pratap's army was lead by Hakim Khan Sur, a Pashtun. Similar in the battle of Khanwa Rana Sanga's army had Pashtun contingents of Lodhi dynasty.

You probably have done a lot of research on all of this, but the point remains that neither 'sati' nor 'jauhar' were Islamic innovations introduced in the ahimsic Hindus. Hindus waged wars against each other (like everywhere), some were conquered (like everywhere) and the conquerors might have wanted to abuse the women (like everywhere). To try to pass of 'jauhar' as some new cultural device perfected against Islamic barbaric hordes - the only ones in history to kill and rape, obviously - is disingenuous.

Lahore was nothing before the Ghaznavids, and if Babur 'razed it', it's his Mughal descendants which gave it its actual glory.

Alliances between Muslims and non Muslims are not that rare (see Ian Almond's book on the subject), but the thing is that it will always bring humiliation to Muslims, the proof being guys like you who make all the 'BFFs' here co-responsible of the supposed crimes of their opponents, because they share a religion.

There's no alliance between Islam and jahilyya.

 

[TM Riddle]

You probably have done a lot of research on all of this, but the point remains that neither 'sati' nor 'jauhar' were Islamic innovations introduced in the ahimsic Hindus. Hindus waged wars against each other (like everywhere), some were conquered (like everywhere) and the conquerors might have wanted to abuse the women (like everywhere). To try to pass of 'jauhar' as some new cultural device perfected against Islamic barbaric hordes - the only ones in history to kill and rape, obviously - is disingenuous.

Lahore was nothing before the Ghaznavids, and if Babur 'razed it', it's his Mughal descendants which gave it its actual glory.

Alliances between Muslims and non Muslims are not that rare (see Ian Almond's book on the subject), but the thing is that it will always bring humiliation to Muslims, the proof being guys like you who make all the 'BFFs' here co-responsible of the supposed crimes of their opponents, because they share a religion.

There's no alliance between Islam and jahilyya.

Bruh I would love to have a discourse with you on this topic but its hard to have a debate with someone who calls your religion Jahiliyat.
Honestly what is wrong with you? You called an entire religion Jahiliyat because it doesn't comply with your already pre conceived notions.

Disappointing. Extremely disappointing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes the link is there but it at least made sense in that era. In those times being captured meant sex slaves in market or sent straight to King's harem. Now we may argue over whether it's sensible to die over some stupid honor but things that waited for those noble women(esp infidels) after being captured were far worse than death in those times.
And I don't think coercion was involved. Brainwashing yes but not force.

My initial response re jauhar was in response to PP champion CricketCartoons, he referred to the conquerors as barbarians, and that is true according to today's standards, so I have just applied the same standards to those who believed jauhar was an honourable practice. If jauhar made sense in that era, then bringing the lands of kufr under the light of Islam also probably made sense in that era. Are we looking from today's perspective or that era's?

 

[TM Riddle]

My initial response re jauhar was in response to PP champion CricketCartoons, he referred to the conquerors as barbarians, and that is true according to today's standards, so I have just applied the same standards to those who believed jauhar was an honourable practice. If jauhar made sense in that era, then bringing the lands of kufr under the light of Islam also probably made sense in that era. Are we looking from today's perspective or that era's?

Makes sense. Agreed with the post.
Can't pick and choose as per one's convenience.

 

[CricketCartoons]

My initial response re jauhar was in response to PP champion CricketCartoons, he referred to the conquerors as barbarians, and that is true according to today's standards, so I have just applied the same standards to those who believed jauhar was an honourable practice. If jauhar made sense in that era, then bringing the lands of kufr under the light of Islam also probably made sense in that era. Are we looking from today's perspective or that era's?

They were barbarians in any era. But quite telling that apologists want to focus on the victims and blame them as backwards instead of acknowledging the barbarism of the invaders they idolize.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Reminds me of the typical racist apologists in america, who state that most blacks are killed by blacks whenever the issue of white cops killing innocent blacks comes up.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They were barbarians in any era. But quite telling that apologists want to focus on the victims and blame them as backwards instead of acknowledging the barbarism of the invaders they idolize.

The victims were backwards, invaders or not, the idea of expecting women to commit suicide to preserve their honour is thinking from a bygone era no matter how victim mentality apologists might want to dress it up. Today you have modern women paying good money to watch 50 shades of grey where women get subjugated for the pleasure of the male. Do you think they would prefer suicide?

 

[CricketCartoons]

The victims were backwards, invaders or not, the idea of expecting women to commit suicide to preserve their honour is thinking from a bygone era no matter how victim mentality apologists might want to dress it up. Today you have modern women paying good money to watch 50 shades of grey where women get subjugated for the pleasure of the male. Do you think they would prefer suicide?

As I said, the apologist would rather focus on the victims instead of the barbarians. Deflect and blame the victim, classic traits of an apologist.

 

[dauntless]

Disgusting. Should be kicked out from the country. Another graduate from RSS school like majority of hindus. So much hate. rabba hifazat karna.

 

[akki]

The victims were backwards, invaders or not, the idea of expecting women to commit suicide to preserve their honour is thinking from a bygone era no matter how victim mentality apologists might want to dress it up. Today you have modern women paying good money to watch 50 shades of grey where women get subjugated for the pleasure of the male. Do you think they would prefer suicide?

Cant we talk about victims later on ? Why we always have to shift the goal to blame the victims first ?

 

[Stewie]

What is the timeline of the 4 rightly guided caliphs?

Were they assasinated by muslims?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashidun

Not all the info might be accurate but at least the basic facts are..

I see this debate still rages on and now the focus is on the invaders of the subcontinent.


People keep forgetting that it’s not just Muslim countries of old that used their power to invade other countries.. all powerful nations in history have done that till recent years and the formation of the UN and yet still US and Russia continue to invade other countries whenever they want...

The history of Muslim conquests pale in comparison to those perpetrated by the Europeans including slavery and genocide, which is something Muslim rulers did not engage in, however, there is other questionable stuff they did.

I can understand why some Hindus here still blame the Muslims for some of that. The oppressed always latch onto their oppression and grief. Blacks in the US, even after having won their freedom still hold lots of anger against white people. Muslims hold a lot of anger towards the Jews for Israel, which I believe is wrong because a lot of Jews are anti Zionist and you can’t hold them all responsible for Palestine. The Hindus similarly will always feel angst and hatred st some level because one Muslims raided their land and two broke it up and took it from them.. Pakistanis feel the same way for East Pakistan and Kashmir..

My point is, there are some issues in distant history and not so distant but we tend to hold on to them.. bottom line is nobody is perfect and most nations have wronged others for their interests if their strength allowed for it..

Hopefully as mankind in general gets more civilized we see less and less of that, but it will probably not ever go away entirely.. dwelling on past ill feelings doesn’t help anyone.. Germany and Italy are part of EU despite their strained history with the other European nations during WW1 and 2. And have cordial relations with France, Belgium, Poland, etc, nation’s they did wrong in the not too distant past.

Hope our nations can learn from them and put aside history and differences for mutual benefit.

Cheers!

 

[akki]

Disgusting. Should be kicked out from the country. Another graduate from RSS school like majority of hindus. So much hate. rabba hifazat karna.

Why does india have 2nd largest population ? If muslims are not safe. Hindus are not safe in pakistan so we saw decline in their population and many many apply citizenship of india since 1947 but this has never been case of india. Why indian muslims dnt apply that to pakistan if muslims are not safe ?

 

[Stewie]

Why does india have 2nd largest population ? If muslims are not safe. Hindus are not safe in pakistan so we saw decline in their population and many many apply citizenship of india since 1947 but this has never been case of india. Why indian muslims dnt apply that to pakistan if muslims are not safe ?

I honestly can’t speak to all that but I do know quite a lot of Indians Muslims here in the US and about twenty years ago you rarely met one who would say “ I wish my ancestors had migrated to Pakistan “

These days it’s almost every single one of them is full of disgust at the direction your country is currently headed. One Indian Muslim Doctor I spoke with a couple of days was saying it’s not a big enough crime to murder a human being in India these days as it is to slaughter a cow.


You are probably right if this was 1990s or 2000s. It’s not the case anymore!

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Not whole Himachal was part of Punjab btw. Pahari Rajputs had their own History distinct from their Punjabi brethren who share common clans with the ones from Rajasthan.
Thus the martial Ghorewahas of Punjab are actually a subclan of Kachhwahas(same as mine) who ruled over Jaipur. Similarly in Sindh as well there are many common clans as well for example Sodhas, Chauhans etc.

Bhuttos if I'm not wrong are Rajputs from Rajasthan who are recent converts.

Ok understood. Our own lineage goes back to katoch of kangra.

I believe the Bhutto clan is, but not sure.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

The Mughal Empire by Crash Course History. It wasn't as dark as people are painting it all to be. No expert of subject but can smell stink when people post lies. And here in this thread, a lot of posters have hateful agendas... each to his own, I guess.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

As I said, the apologist would rather focus on the victims instead of the barbarians. Deflect and blame the victim, classic traits of an apologist.

You need to acknowledge that women were the victims of jauhar to make your complaints valid. They were the victims twice over, not only being taken captive by the invaders, but also by their own Hindu society in being brainwashed into collective suicide to avoid it. Please don't settle for telling half a story if you want the story to be told.

 

[TM Riddle]

Ok understood. Our own lineage goes back to katoch of kangra.

I believe the Bhutto clan is, but not sure.

Katochs are ancient and when I say ancient that means really ancient.
Many even claim Porus was from the same clan. They are said to be around in the North West since the Vedic period.

 

[TM Riddle]

The Mughal Empire by Crash Course History. It wasn't as dark as people are painting it all to be. No expert of subject but can smell stink when people post lies. And here in this thread, a lot of posters have hateful agendas... each to his own, I guess.

Mughal period was India's golden age in terms of art and architecture after the golden period of Gupta empire.
I plan to start a new thread on it soon.

 

[akki]

I honestly can’t speak to all that but I do know quite a lot of Indians Muslims here in the US and about twenty years ago you rarely met one who would say “ I wish my ancestors had migrated to Pakistan “

These days it’s almost every single one of them is full of disgust at the direction your country is currently headed. One Indian Muslim Doctor I spoke with a couple of days was saying it’s not a big enough crime to murder a human being in India these days as it is to slaughter a cow.


You are probably right if this was 1990s or 2000s. It’s not the case anymore!

Bhai dnt talk about who you met or not met. Give me facts or figures ,then only and only come and talk.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You need to acknowledge that women were the victims of jauhar to make your complaints valid. They were the victims twice over, not only being taken captive by the invaders, but also by their own Hindu society in being brainwashed into collective suicide to avoid it. Please don't settle for telling half a story if you want the story to be told.

The same old trait of apologists. Lets discuss the reaction before we discuss the action. Let us discuss how the victims were at fault. But let us not talk about the elephant in the room.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The same old trait of apologists. Lets discuss the reaction before we discuss the action. Let us discuss how the victims were at fault. But let us not talk about the elephant in the room.

I'm guessing it might have been an elephant shape bar of soap in the Marriott bathroom.

 

[Stewie]

Bhai dnt talk about who you met or not met. Give me facts or figures ,then only and only come and talk.

What sort of facts and figures will convince you? It’s quite evident that nobody is able to convince anybody on Internet forums especially when the hatred runs so deep. This is usually a dick swinging contest isn’t it. I have been watching Indian posters on this website ever since it’s inception. You guys always have some agenda and never want to concede a point. Sometimes I wonder if the hatred for Pakistan and Pakistanis run so deep, why do you guys come here to begin with?

And I also find it equally ridiculous that Pakistanis on their own forum have to end up defending themselves against the Indians. It’s utterly pointless. Indian keyboard warriors outnumber us 5-1 it seems. So good luck with this wang comparing shindig. I would much rather contribute on the entertainment or sports related threads.

Cheers!

 

[akki]

What sort of facts and figures will convince you? It’s quite evident that nobody is able to convince anybody on Internet forums especially when the hatred runs so deep. This is usually a dick swinging contest isn’t it. I have been watching Indian posters on this website ever since it’s inception. You guys always have some agenda and never want to concede a point. Sometimes I wonder if the hatred for Pakistan and Pakistanis run so deep, why do you guys come here to begin with?

And I also find it equally ridiculous that Pakistanis on their own forum have to end up defending themselves against the Indians. It’s utterly pointless. Indian keyboard warriors outnumber us 5-1 it seems. So good luck with this wang comparing shindig. I would much rather contribute on the entertainment or sports related threads.

Cheers!

Have asked various questions infinity times ,nobody was able to answer questions. Somebody said he would bring facts ,he never came back.
First question
If its easier to kill a guy a human being than a cow. How many muslims has been killed in india since last 5 years combined. Can you provide figures ?its not even in hundred and that too in a population of 125 crore. So you lied and you have a propaganda
Question n.o 2 -
Why does india have second largest muslim population in the world and you know what muslims are the only community which has highest increasing rate than any other community in india. If india hates muslims. How come rss or bajrang dal or bjp or anyone cud not control it.
But its almost reciprocal in pakistan related to hindus. Never mind.they are kafirs so why anyone would even discuss them.leave it.
Question n.o 3
Why come no muslims of india including all your friends nevwr ever applied citizenship to pakistan after 1947,if hindus hate and all ,even with current bjp no one applied citizenship of pakistan which is islamic republic and wheras hindus and sikhs has applied many times citizenship of india.
Question n.o 4
If muslims are not safe so why rohingyas muslims come to take shelter of india when they were getting masscarred by budhists in mynamar and when india is already unsafe for muslims and they settled too in jammu area.
Question n.o 5
Why india is the only country where majority 80 percent hindus are against conversions whereas minority is in favors of conversions.whereas with rss and bjp ,it should have been reverse.
Question n.o 6
India has 2nd highest number of mosques. So with rss and bjp and all hindus hate,how come india has highest number of mosques even if we include around 50 muslims countries.
These are just basic questions ,i will ask you main questions later on if you would answer this first. Lets see who have a propaganda.

 

[Muddaser]

All this talk about Muslim barbarism and forced conversions by Muslim invaders.

Look at Indonesia, largest Muslim country where the majority of the population converted from Hinduism.

No army set foot there.

 

[Mamoon]

It is disappointing, yet unsurprising to see people still revising history to hide the war crimes and atrocities of the Muslim invaders and plunderers. Some go one step ahead and defend the inhumane acts because they "saved us from hellfire".

Becoming a Muslim and reciting kalimah does not save you from hellfire; only your good deeds will, and these good deeds are not limited to the realms of Islam only.

The terrorists who massacred children in APS also recited kalimah and did it in the name of God. Or perhaps I am to believe that all the great non-Muslims in history, who have done great things for humanity and the world, are destined for the fire from which the plunderer Muhammad Bin Qasim saved me?

Perhaps Muhammad Bin Qasim has saved from the fire where people like Mother Teresa, Thomas Morton - the man who developed general anaesthesia, without which our Mullahs and great champions of Islam would die during surgeries while screaming in pain, as well as people like Martin Luther King Jr. etc. (and the list goes on and on and on....)

All these people are destined for the fire that Muhammad Bin Qasim saved the modern Muslims from, people who steal and pray bribe before entering the mosque to pray and cleaning their teeth with miswak and combing their beards with his wet wuzu fingers.

It is never to late to change though. I am off to repent for my sins and accusations. I am really glad that Muslim invaders attacked my ancestors - killed them, looted them, raped them, and forcefully converted them.

I am also going to thank them for the ingenious development of the Jizya system, i.e. if you are still not going to accept our religion after all that we have done to your people, you better pay us tax so that we don't behead you.

 

[DeadBall]

Perhaps Muhammad Bin Qasim has saved from the fire where people like Mother Teresa, Thomas Morton - the man who developed general anaesthesia, without which our Mullahs and great champions of Islam would die during surgeries, as well as people like Martin Luther King Jr. etc. (and the list goes on and on and on....)

Better not put Theresa on that list.

 

[enkidu_]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you're drowning in the modernist episteme. The prophets of Allah (swt) were not scientists or inventors. To build your soul is harder than to build pyramids, and that's why the communities who only do the latter disappear - communities which have aborted divine ordinances might invent a new solar system but they'll bound to whisper away in the echoes of history... and anyway, isn't China a good case ? They invent/discover gunpowder, the compass and paper - what 17th century English Francis Bacon called "the greatest inventions in history", to which Needham would add printing - and these very same inventions/discoveries have been used by Europeans against Chinese - look at the Opium wars, and which is interesting, because you bring up the issue of jizya : jizya was a tax which was applied on able male adults (so no females, no children, no crippled, etc) from recognized cults, which protected them and even gave them some benefits (for instance no military service, while Muslims had to protect them ; there's a famous case where the supposed "godfather of terrorism", Ibn Taymiyyah, asked for the return of prisoners from some crusader ; he gave the Muslims back, but not the dhimmis, Christian Arabs, and Ibn Taymiyyah said he won't go before getting them as well.)

Why do I bring up the jizya while discussing the Opium wars ? Because the jizya was like any treaty a victor imposes on the defeated ; the only difference is that the jizya was a hundred times more merciful that the British came up with with the treaties they imposed after the Opium wars, basically, forcing a cultured people like China to drug its own masses (in around 1900, 10% of Chinese were into opium, 1/3 of them being addicts).

In fact, ask yourself a good question : why the only European country conquered by Islam was its beacon of "civilization" for centuries - Spain/al Andalus - while the British vaporized ancient civilizations like India or China ? Aurangzeb made sure India represents 23% of the world's GDP, while the British left it at 3%, deindustrializing it and underdevelopping its human capital (see Dharampal ; worse than stealing a nation is to steal its population's abilities to remain relevant in a modern society).

'Jizya' has been practiced by all, and still is : when the US put 'economic sanctions' on countries, isn't that and 'jizya' ? Doesn't the US want these countries to be 'humiliated' and accept its capitalist/(neo)liberal world order, with their companies sucking up the blood and soul of the countries' masses ?

RM Eaton shows conversions to Islam had nothing to do with jizya. In fact, as yourself a simple question : how many peoples do you see change political ideologies for questions of taxes ? If it was the case, would you find 'socialists' in Europe ? Wouldn't they all be economically liberals ? So, forget a political ideology, no one changes a whole religion for a question of money, esp. when you see the resistance movements in the world, where shepherds and farmers are ready to go against tanks and jets in order to preserve their customs and traditions (Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc)

 

[Kriketer]

Good stuff Dubai. Throw every ill islamophobic out. This hatred need to be controlled all around the globe before it's too late. Should be the same for any religion as respecting other's religion is the only way moving forward.

People get away with things like "Freedom of Expression" but this just isn't freedom of expression. You need to respect what's dear to others, and shouldn't make pathetic nonsensical comments on social media.

 

[Kriketer]

I am also going to thank them for the ingenious development of the Jizya system, i.e. if you are still not going to accept our religion after all that we have done to your people, you better pay us tax so that we don't behead you.

You seem quite ignorant about the topic. I would suggest you read up first on the invention of Jizya before posting ridiculous islamophobic comments that we often read on social media.

Jizya was simply a small tax amount that was levied on non-Muslims for the government to look after them and cover their safety measure expenses. Non-Muslims under Muslim empire didn't send their men to wars either and majority of Muslims used to pay zakkat/saddaqa to the city.

Defending anything related to India seems to be running deep in you, don't lose sanity over defending them all the time. Not that we are anti-Indian, but you have never been seen to voice against their government's or historical Rajas atrocities or regular anti-Pakistani biases from their posters on PP.

 

[Suleiman]

First time in a long time I’ve read multiple pages of a thread. Very interesting historic posts.

 

[PakLFC]

Indian people hardly ever attack the Brits who also ruled the entire subcontinent for 200 years. I never see Hindu Indian's tell the world how Christian's tormented them for such a long period because they want excellent relations with the west. Here you can clearly see their hypocrisy again where they say Muslim rule was bad but British rule not that bad! These Hindu Indian's would crawl on their knee's to live and work in Muslim and Christian countries. It is only the Muslim's they have a problem with even though Islam's far greater contribution to Christianity in India and it's culture can be seen in their entire country.

 

[PakLFC]

Wow, so a lot of people should go out of India according to your logic. That's stupid and you ought to apologize...

Indian Muslim's say hello! That is exactly what majority community in India often tells it's Muslim's that you were all forced to convert to Islam and are really Hindu's. They are often generalised and told to leave and "go to Pakistan". Take some in return. More chance of you getting blood out of a stone then an apology from a Pakistani like me. I am not an Indian Muslim's who will tell you what you want to hear.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Indian people hardly ever attack the Brits who also ruled the entire subcontinent for 200 years. I never see Hindu Indian's tell the world how Christian's tormented them for such a long period because they want excellent relations with the west. Here you can clearly see their hypocrisy again where they say Muslim rule was bad but British rule not that bad! These Hindu Indian's would crawl on their knee's to live and work in Muslim and Christian countries. It is only the Muslim's they have a problem with even though Islam's far greater contribution to Christianity in India and it's culture can be seen in their entire country.

Trust me you have no idea. Those who hate, hate Christians equally. They have their fancy terminologies for them.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan isn't any better either, [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION]. 30 temples in Pakistan were destroyed in one single day after Babri incident. Something that had nothing to do with their country. What was the fault of Pakistani Hindus who had to flee their country after this? Some Pakistani migrants in UAE attacked Hindus there as well and were rightly deported. That's insane. A national shame.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Trust me you have no idea. Those who hate, hate Christians equally. They have their fancy terminologies for them.

Their hatred is reserved for Indian christians, British are regarded as the British Raj due to their high rank during the days of Empire.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Their hatred is reserved for Indian christians, British are regarded as the British Raj due to their high rank during the days of Empire.

Raj means rule. British Raj means British rule. British are not any high rank. Lol. May be for you they are.

British are hated for their imperalistic ways and how they oppressed and looted the people of the subcontinent. They are hated for breaking temples or spreading their religion by force in India as they didnot do it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Raj means rule. British Raj means British rule. British are not any high rank. Lol. May be for you they are.

British are hated for their imperalistic ways and how they oppressed and looted the people of the subcontinent. They are hated for breaking temples or spreading their religion by force in India as they didnot do it.

Raja means King I believe, and Rajputs are among the highest castes in India. British Raj is therefore self-explanatory.

 

[IMMY69]

wow came to this thread expecting to read about this chef and his silly tweet but instead got a huge lesson in history!!

Been to Benaris in Berkely Square and it was absolutely awful. Paid a grand for four people and got something that almost resembled indian food.

 

[PakLFC]

Pakistan isn't any better either, [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION]. 30 temples in Pakistan were destroyed in one single day after Babri incident. Something that had nothing to do with their country. What was the fault of Pakistani Hindus who had to flee their country after this? Some Pakistani migrants in UAE attacked Hindus there as well and were rightly deported. That's insane. A national shame.

Yeah but Pak admits its faults unlike India. Not saying it was the right thing but human emotions came in to play after the Babri destruction. Should have thought about that when you were taking Babri down that there would be a bloody reaction from the other side as well. Not saying that Pak Hindu's are treated well unlike you lot who keep telling us there is no anti Muslim feeling in India. At the end of the day if you Hindu's hurt Muslim feelings in our countries then we will render you redundant and deport you. Our community is twice as large as yours. Any Pak breaking UAE should suffer the same fate. We will never allow you to hurt Muslim sentiments in the Middle East where we are the majority community.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...he-basis-of-religion/articleshow/64638444.cms

 

[PakLFC]

Trust me you have no idea. Those who hate, hate Christians equally. They have their fancy terminologies for them.

Perhaps but never openly like you do Islam coz you want American dollars and British sterling! Let me see anyone in India especially a celebrity make anti Christian tweets. The right wing Christian fundo's in America will have you lot for breakfast. Priyanka Chopra will be back in India permanently.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Atul Kocchar said something. Marriott fired him. Indians are reacting to that.

Yes and makers of Quantico made a fictional TV show, Indians reacted by condemning it and telling Priyanka to go to Pakistan.

In this case, Atul is Quantico and Marriott is Indians. I hope you see the similarities and not nitpick details.

It seems Indian twitterati only care about their own freedom of speech. Quantico makers aren't allowed freedom of speech but Atul is?

Its called having your cake and eating it too.

 

[PakLFC]

There can never be any tolerance of anti Islamic views or insults to the Prophet of Allah(saw) in any Muslim majority country. This is non negotiable where a compromise will never be considered under so called "freedom or speech or expression". I am glad that this Hindu chef has been made an example off despite his attempts to back track on his comments. This is exactly how such cheap insults should be dealt with by Muslim people towards those who dare cross the line by insulting what we consider to be the holiest of the holiest. Don't insult their religious belief rather sack then deport them immediately. See how they like that! In a Muslim majority land you will respect Islam and Muslim sentiments by choice or by force.

 

[akki]

There can never be any tolerance of anti Islamic views or insults to the Prophet of Allah(saw) in any Muslim majority country. This is non negotiable where a compromise will never be considered under so called "freedom or speech or expression". I am glad that this Hindu chef has been made an example off despite his attempts to back track on his comments. This is exactly how such cheap insults should be dealt with by Muslim people towards those who dare cross the line by insulting what we consider to be the holiest of the holiest. Don't insult their religious belief rather sack then deport them immediately. See how they like that! In a Muslim majority land you will respect Islam and Muslim sentiments by choice or by force.

Hopefilly similar things will happen in non islamic countries insha allah. Its not like i am supporting this chef. But there are worst things which you cannot believe people have said in non islamic countries to their beliefs.
We belief karma .

 

[BreadPakoda]

Yeah but Pak admits its faults unlike India. Not saying it was the right thing but human emotions came in to play after the Babri destruction. Should have thought about that when you were taking Babri down that there would be a bloody reaction from the other side as well. Not saying that Pak Hindu's are treated well unlike you lot who keep telling us there is no anti Muslim feeling in India. At the end of the day if you Hindu's hurt Muslim feelings in our countries then we will render you redundant and deport you. Our community is twice as large as yours. Any Pak breaking UAE should suffer the same fate. We will never allow you to hurt Muslim sentiments in the Middle East where we are the majority community.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...he-basis-of-religion/articleshow/64638444.cms

Heard this so many times before from those who justify violence. A Hindu would say "you should have thought before doing this and that", and a Muslim will say the same - that "you should have thought before doing this and that". Everything is a reaction to an action.

Shame that you too belong to the same category. I see no difference between your thinking and any other right winger's thinking, regardless of religion.

 

[BreadPakoda]

We will never allow you to hurt Muslim sentiments in the Middle East where we are the majority community

Ladies and gentlemen, we have with us our own Deepak Sharma here.



Wow, you have the galls to attack people for protesting against hurting their sentiments and you don't realize that they are a complete reflection of your own mentality. What hypocrisy, what irony!

 

[Kriketer]

Hopefilly similar things will happen in non islamic countries insha allah. Its not like i am supporting this chef. But there are worst things which you cannot believe people have said in non islamic countries to their beliefs.
We belief karma .

In majority of Non-Islamic countries, you don't see Muslims talking garbage about other religions. They know it's dear to others and respect it. Talking garbage about personal belief is not freedom of expression, there's a limit to it and should not cross boundaries of respect and human decency.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Raja means King I believe, and Rajputs are among the highest castes in India. British Raj is therefore self-explanatory.

Raja and Raj are two different words.Not the same.

Raj means rule and British Raj means British Rule. Nothing more.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Love threads like these. Especially exposes some posters who selectively quote scholars to fit an agenda while trashing everything else.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

On topic though. The man had every right to tweet as he pleased about Islam( even if it is somewhat ignorant) and it's unfortunate he had to lose his job while doing so. But when you are living in a Muslim country you can't expect any less.

 

[akki]

In majority of Non-Islamic countries, you don't see Muslims talking garbage about other religions. They know it's dear to others and respect it. Talking garbage about personal belief is not freedom of expression, there's a limit to it and should not cross boundaries of respect and human decency.

Whole world know that and there are even bomb attacks in non islamic countries ,forget about insult.
In india you can abuse hindu gods ,have seen plenty of times or even insult their faith .
The more i read about world evryday ,the more i fall in love with my religion and most importantly my india...

 

[Kriketer]

On topic though. The man had every right to tweet as he pleased about Islam( even if it is somewhat ignorant) and it's unfortunate he had to lose his job while doing so. But when you are living in a Muslim country you can't expect any less.

Looks like someone got his feelings hurt. I guess respecting others belief is not what folks like you prefer. Ya through the silly freedom of expression around.

Wonder what would happen to a Muslim or Christian person in India when they would mock the beef related Hindu beliefs....we know it very well as you said "you can't expect any less in India"

 

[Kriketer]

Whole world know that and there are even bomb attacks in non islamic countries ,forget about insult.
In india you can abuse hindu gods ,have seen plenty of times or even insult their faith .
The more i read about world evryday ,the more i fall in love with my religion and most importantly my india...

So you are blaming Muslims and Islam for that? Typical foolishness from Islamophobes.

Beef killings ring any bell Mr. Maha Bharti

 

[akki]

Looks like someone got his feelings hurt. I guess respecting others belief is not what folks like you prefer. Ya through the silly freedom of expression around.

Wonder what would happen to a Muslim or Christian person in India when they would mock the beef related Hindu beliefs....we know it very well as you said "you can't expect any less in India"

Loll beef ? We have plenty of good cartoonist as well.so should we draw sketches of any one ?? You guys have only beef to talk. We can discuss 100 things about you guys then.

 

[akki]

So you are blaming Muslims and Islam for that? Typical foolishness from Islamophobes.

Beef killings ring any bell Mr. Maha Bharti

Offcourse we will blame . And if you can bring even 100 person data from the last 5 years data combined out of 125 crore population ,that how much muslims got lynched due to beef . That is not even 0.00001 percent probablity .
I hope you got basic sense.
Even shias muslims in your 18 crore populated country are prosecuted at 2000 percent greater probablity than muslims due to beef out of 125 crore population in india.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

On topic though. The man had every right to tweet as he pleased about Islam( even if it is somewhat ignorant) and it's unfortunate he had to lose his job while doing so. But when you are living in a Muslim country you can't expect any less.

He's not only concerned about his job in Dubai, he has to be careful what he says at home in Britain too. He's quite often featured as a minor guest on tv shows, and the media would wash their hands of him quite quickly if it became public knowledge over here. He's deleted his tweet and apologised profusely though, so maybe he'll get away with it as it hasn't really made the major news in England, as he's not a major celebrity.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Looks like someone got his feelings hurt. I guess respecting others belief is not what folks like you prefer. Ya through the silly freedom of expression around.

Wonder what would happen to a Muslim or Christian person in India when they would mock the beef related Hindu beliefs....we know it very well as you said "you can't expect any less in India"

I don't need to respect anyone's belief. I respect the right of everyone to believe in whatever they want. There's a difference. And if a Christian or a Muslim were to mock Hindu beliefs I believe that they have every right to. The fact that you think freedom of expression is silly says more about you than about me. Care to point out where I have criticised anyone who mocked my beliefs?

 

[cricketjoshila]

He's not only concerned about his job in Dubai, he has to be careful what he says at home in Britain too. He's quite often featured as a minor guest on tv shows, and the media would wash their hands of him quite quickly if it became public knowledge over here. He's deleted his tweet and apologised profusely though, so maybe he'll get away with it as it hasn't really made the major news in England, as he's not a major celebrity.

Plenty of people have said a lot of things about muslims and islam in UK. Fortunately UK is not a muslim majority monarchy and people are free to give their views within the limits of civility.

So keep these threats for people who work in muslim majority countries. You are not going to get anyone punished for stating facts in UK.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Plenty of people have said a lot of things about muslims and islam in UK. Fortunately UK is not a muslim majority monarchy and people are free to give their views within the limits of civility.

So keep these threats for people who work in muslim majority countries. You are not going to get anyone punished for stating facts in UK.

You should also take a course on English as a language, no threats were issued, neither did your hero state facts, that is why he apologised and removed his tweets. He knows the UK isn't India, those views would not be welcome here, this is a multicultural country. Please adjust your tone accordingly.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You should also take a course on English as a language, no threats were issued, neither did your hero state facts, that is why he apologised and removed his tweets. He knows the UK isn't India, those views would not be welcome here, this is a multicultural country. Please adjust your tone accordingly.

So if his views are not acceptable in UK how come only he only lost his contract in Dubai?Why is he still able to run his restaurants in UK.

Yes UK is multicultural therefore criticising followers of any religion for their acts done in the name of religion will not be censored.So you can keep your threats to Indians to yourself.

He apologised since he was in Dubai and had a contract there.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So if his views are not acceptable in UK how come only he only lost his contract in Dubai?Why is he still able to run his restaurants in UK.

Yes UK is multicultural therefore criticising followers of any religion for their acts done in the name of religion will not be censored.So you can keep your threats to Indians to yourself.

He apologised since he was in Dubai and had a contract there.

Please understand, in England to state that a view might not be welcome, doesn't count as a threat, any more than the chef's inaccurate bigoted statements can be described as 'facts'. I am writing this slowly so you can comprehend it better since it didn't seem to register previously.

He is not going to be stopped from running his own restaurants in the UK, but he might lose his tv slots, we'll have to see. Could be that him not being a major celebrity means that his tweet goes unnoticed, I haven't read any reports in the news. I did explain this already, but since you didn't seem to comprehend it first time round, I've repeated it. Let me know if you need it explained in simpler terms.

 

[Braveheart]

Was it really an apology?
Looks like he only corrected the 2000 year figure to 1400.
Another 'Two-faced' hating 'Brute in a Suit' and plenty more like him in the Hindu Community.

 

[PakLFC]

Heard this so many times before from those who justify violence. A Hindu would say "you should have thought before doing this and that", and a Muslim will say the same - that "you should have thought before doing this and that". Everything is a reaction to an action.

Shame that you too belong to the same category. I see no difference between your thinking and any other right winger's thinking, regardless of religion.

Hard luck! Keep your cheap insults to yourself if you cane not understand human emotions. I am not saying I would do the same but the ultra religious do look upon at attack on their place of worship anywhere as being on their community. I did not say it is right rather explaining how many believers of all faiths think. Not my fault that you can't see the obvious.