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Kamran Ghulam v Mohammad Rizwan+Shan Masood (Red Ball batting)

Rana

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Ok so I find this latest PCB squad selection for the Test series v Sri Lanka as Bizarre to say the least.

Mohammad Rizwan was rightfully dropped for his BATTING against New Zealand last winter. Sarfaraz Ahmed came back into the side and grabbed his opportunity with both hands proving that he is still a far better batsman and player of Spin than Rizwan at least, in fact better than most in the Pakistan team.

PCB have just announced a squad with Rizwan in the team (fair enough) but he is also named the vice captain of the side, which means he most likely will be in the starting XI. If Rizwan and even Masood play in the XI, it means Rizwan will have to play as a batsman solely and he will most likely bat in the top 5.

Having said that, on what basis does Rizwan merit a spot in the side as a batsman only? His technical deficiencies were exposed massively up to the run in of him eventually being dropped. He also hasn’t been playing any red ball cricket as an overseas in county cricket to improve his deficiencies as a batsman.

On the other hand, a guy like Kamran Ghulam has been working his tashreef off in the Pakistan domestics, proving himself as a good solid batsman and still hasn’t been given his shot in the national side! This time he was just dropped entirely. Pakistan gave Saud a chance and he didn’t let you down, so why can’t they give Kamran a fair chance to prove himself as well??!

Why is Rizwan and Masood who are technically nowhere on the level of Kamran Ghulam being given so many opportunities??
 
look at KG performance against Zim A in the 4 day matches first and mind you the Zim A 4 day side didnt consist of their main team like the one day side did.
 
Rizwan will not be in the playing XI in spite of being the VC. Being the VC doesn’t guarantee selection, we have seen Masood getting benched numerous times in LOIs in spite of being the VC.

Pakistan will play the same top 7 they did vs New Zealand.

Shafique
Imam
Masood
Babar
Saud
Sarfaraz
Agha

A pathetic player like Masood should not be in the XI but as long as Sethi is the Chairman he will keep his place in the team.
 
Rizwan will not be in the playing XI in spite of being the VC. Being the VC doesn’t guarantee selection, we have seen Masood getting benched numerous times in LOIs in spite of being the VC.

Pakistan will play the same top 7 they did vs New Zealand.

Shafique
Imam
Masood
Babar
Saud
Sarfaraz
Agha

A pathetic player like Masood should not be in the XI but as long as Sethi is the Chairman he will keep his place in the team.

I don't think Shaan and Riz will start in the XI for the first test. Here is my XI guess

Imam
Shafique
Babar
Saud
Agha
Sarfaraz
Jamal
Nawaz
Shaheen
Nasim
Abrar

Bench:
Hassan Ali
Noman Ali
Shaan Masood
Rizwan
Huraira
 
anyone advocating kamrna ghulam clearly didnt see how bad this guy was against the recent Zimbabwe A series.

Rightly dropped
 
Rizwan will not be in the playing XI in spite of being the VC. Being the VC doesn’t guarantee selection, we have seen Masood getting benched numerous times in LOIs in spite of being the VC.

Pakistan will play the same top 7 they did vs New Zealand.

Shafique
Imam
Masood
Babar
Saud
Sarfaraz
Agha

A pathetic player like Masood should not be in the XI but as long as Sethi is the Chairman he will keep his place in the team.

They should have Hurraira instead of Masood.
 
anyone advocating kamrna ghulam clearly didnt see how bad this guy was against the recent Zimbabwe A series.

Rightly dropped

So what does that say about your FC system where KG averages over 45 for a sustained amount of time??

The guy is a fraud?
 
So what does that say about your FC system where KG averages over 45 for a sustained amount of time??

The guy is a fraud?

not all first class players who perform well are good enough for international. Ramparkash is the best example.

After first class, you get Pakitan a where you need to perform. His performance against Zimbabwe A was terrible. It makes sense why he is not being considered
 
not all first class players who perform well are good enough for international. Ramparkash is the best example.

After first class, you get Pakitan a where you need to perform. His performance against Zimbabwe A was terrible. It makes sense why he is not being considered

So how do Masood and Rizwan maintain their place in the Test side whilst being garbage Test batsmen??
 
So how do Masood and Rizwan maintain their place in the Test side whilst being garbage Test batsmen??

shan masood doenst deserve.

Meanwhile, Rizwan is our best keeper and avgs 38.

You will argue otherwise, and i dont want to indulge in that discussion, because nothing will make you chnage ur opinon on rizwan,
 
shan masood doenst deserve.

Meanwhile, Rizwan is our best keeper and avgs 38.

You will argue otherwise, and i dont want to indulge in that discussion, because nothing will make you chnage ur opinon on rizwan,

Best keeper? He isn’t in the Test side for his poor batting

So why does he merit a spot ahead of a proper batsman?
 
Looks like u ignored what i wrote in the last para
 
Best keeper? He isn’t in the Test side for his poor batting

So why does he merit a spot ahead of a proper batsman?

Of course Rizwan is the best keeper in Pakistan by a country mile.
 
I haven't seen kamran ghulam play tbh so I can't say.

Shan masood is terrible, Rizwan ain't a test player at all.
 
this guy should have been with pak team in aus...i think he would have been better than saud who has no spine
 
Kamran Ghulam has scored heavily in domestics and he also got a chance to be named in the squad but he unfortunately could not play a single match before he was dropped for nothin'. Yes, I think he can be handy Midlle order batter and his techniques suits more to the bouncy tracks because he can cut and pull.
 
Agha has done relatively well since his debut, but in all honesty Kamran should have been the one to get that middle order spot on sheer volume of runs. Bowling wise, they’re probably at a similar skill level.

Based on Saud’s performance in Australia though, I’d take Kamran over him in a heartbeat. Have zero time for players who can’t play bounce :sahmed
 
his bowling is as good as agha if not better than him... this guy would bring way more things to the table than the fraud saud shakeel
 
pcb wastes good forms and peak of good players a lot of the times

they keep on betting on failed horses to win them the race
stop blaming PCB all the time cause you saw one game and liked the player.

Kamran was part of the Pakistan A team and was getting out hitting 40s and 50s. He couldnt convernt his 50s into proper innings and Pakistan couldnt win those series/tournaments. This is why he lost out.

14 years back, Asad Shafiq got selected due to his 50s for Pakistan A but in the national teams one day side he was socring half of those runs.

Kamran needs to score 100s to play for Pakistan where his performance would be half of that
 
stop blaming PCB all the time cause you saw one game and liked the player.

Kamran was part of the Pakistan A team and was getting out hitting 40s and 50s. He couldnt convernt his 50s into proper innings and Pakistan couldnt win those series/tournaments. This is why he lost out.

14 years back, Asad Shafiq got selected due to his 50s for Pakistan A but in the national teams one day side he was socring half of those runs.

Kamran needs to score 100s to play for Pakistan where his performance would be half of that
How many games did he play for pakistan A.
 
How many games did he play for pakistan A.
9 List A Pakistan games

Against Nepal, Zimbabwe A, India A, UAE A


He also played 4 Pakistan A games in First Class

Against Sri Lanka A and Zimbabwe A

Look at how Hurraira and Omair Bin Yousuf performed and compared that to Kamran's performance.

 
9 List A Pakistan games

Against Nepal, Zimbabwe A, India A, UAE A


He also played 4 Pakistan A games in First Class

Against Sri Lanka A and Zimbabwe A

Look at how Hurraira and Omair Bin Yousuf performed and compared that to Kamran's performance.

4x 4 day games and he isn’t good enough for Pakistan?
 
InshaAllah the guy gets his call up soon
 
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Since people are using Pakistan Shaheen's performances to justify Kamran Ghulam's nonselection

Mohammad Rizwan for Pakistan U-23 in the 2017 Emerging Asia Cup

10 (18) vs Nepal
18 (12) vs Hong Kong
12 (16) vs Bangladesh

Granted he scored a century in the semifinal vs Afghanistan. That's the entire reason behind an average; it's a representation of a player's batting skill, and his first class average of nearly 50 is pretty dang good
 
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Since people are using Pakistan Shaheen's performances to justify Kamran Ghulam's nonselection

Mohammad Rizwan for Pakistan U-23 in the 2017 Emerging Asia Cup

10 (18) vs Nepal
18 (12) vs Hong Kong
12 (16) vs Bangladesh

Granted he scored a century in the semifinal vs Afghanistan. That's the entire reason behind an average; it's a representation of a player's batting skill, and his first class average of nearly 50 is pretty dang good

Just because you score runs in domestic cricket, that does not mean you should be selected directly to the national team. The next route should be Pakistan A/Pakistan Emerging etc. If you score more runs there only than you would be able to score lesser runs with the national team.

The fact that Kamran Ghulam scores 40s and 50s and manages to fail against the likes of Zimbabwe A, Nepal, UAE and Sri Lanaka, simply suggests he is not good enough. His other partners like Hurraira and Omair Bin Yousuf are scoring 70+ runs in games against same oppositions.

Once you perform well in Pakistan A, than offcourse select that player for national team.

Those are all the matches of Kamran Ghulam i posted of his Pakistan A, and he is yet to give a good performance for that team.

Now coming to your Rizwan comment.

That Emerging Asia Cup tournament that you have mentioned it was held in April of 2017. This was during the time when Rizwan was dropped from the national team in January and did not play for Pakistan till 2019.

Now after being dropped of January of 2017 he kept playing for Pakistan A. He did no do well in the 2017 April tournament, but in the games held afterwards of Pakistan A in 2018 of october, Rizwan scored 73,105, 34, 116, 11*, 98, 141, all these runs were scored agaisnt New Zealand A and England A. And it was after these performances of Pakistan A he got selected again for Pakistan national team.

If Rizwan was selected in ODI right after the april 2017 tournament your point would had made sense, but since he did not perform and kept playing Pakistan A and when he only got into the national team with performances with Pakistan A, your argument becomes invalid.

After the 2018 with Pakistan A, Rizwan would than return to the team in all formats in 2019 on the basis of strong peformance with Pakistan A.


I dont have anything against Kamran and used to back for his inclusion, but when he failed against the likes of Zimbabwe A, Nepal A and couldnt win games for the Pakistan A side, it just shows you he is not good enough for national team AT THE MOMENT.

If he works hard, scores more runs for Pakistan A than offcourse he should be in the national team. But not now. We made the similar mistake with Asad Shafiq who used to score 40s and 50s with Pakistan A and we thought he was good enough for Pakistan national team odi.


For reference: https://www.pcb.com.pk/player-detai...layer_matches&player_id=24802&match_type_id=9
 
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Just because you score runs in domestic cricket, that does not mean you should be selected directly to the national team. The next route should be Pakistan A/Pakistan Emerging etc. If you score more runs there only than you would be able to score lesser runs with the national team.
Yes in an ideal world I agree, selection would go from domestic->Pakistan A -> Pakistan national team. But the PCB is PCB so the Shaheens hardly go on a handful of tours yearly and they definitely need to start touring regularly. As it is, domestic performances need to be taken into account and can't be ignored.

The fact that Kamran Ghulam scores 40s and 50s and manages to fail against the likes of Zimbabwe A, Nepal, UAE and Sri Lanaka, simply suggests he is not good enough. His other partners like Hurraira and Omair Bin Yousuf are scoring 70+ runs in games against same oppositions.

Once you perform well in Pakistan A, than offcourse select that player for national team.

Those are all the matches of Kamran Ghulam i posted of his Pakistan A, and he is yet to give a good performance for that team.
I agree that Ghulam's performances for the Shaheens haven't been amazing. At the same time I would say that performances for Pakistan A alone aren't entirely indicative of talent. Imran Butt has scored done well and scored a century for Pakistan A, and he was a relative failure in internationals. At the same time Amir Jamal wasn't groundbreaking for the Shaheens but he was outstanding in the Australia test series.

That's why I like to take their entire batting average into account. It's a good measure of a player's performance.

Now coming to your Rizwan comment.
Yes I did that intentionally that was my point. I even pointed out he scored a century in the very next match. Trying to illustrate that a handful of PakU23 games wasn't indicative of his batting ability.

I dont have anything against Kamran and used to back for his inclusion, but when he failed against the likes of Zimbabwe A, Nepal A and couldnt win games for the Pakistan A side, it just shows you he is not good enough for national team AT THE MOMENT.

If he works hard, scores more runs for Pakistan A than offcourse he should be in the national team. But not now. We made the similar mistake with Asad Shafiq who used to score 40s and 50s with Pakistan A and we thought he was good enough for Pakistan national team odi.


For reference: https://www.pcb.com.pk/player-detai...layer_matches&player_id=24802&match_type_id=9
This is all fair points and I agree that ideally someone should be piling on the runs and making their case for selection. But we don't have any Bradman's in domestics scoring centuries left and right, next best thing is to pick players who are performing and I think he's at least earned a debut
 
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Kamran Ghulam should be given a run now since our middle order has failed miserably again in Australia. His selection in the next series should be looked upon but yes, he should be performing by then. Keep scoring runs in the domestic circuit like the current president's trophy.
 
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