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Kane Williamson’s position in the Fab 4

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Smudger

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His conversion rate in test is not very good. Doesnt have a lot of runs in asia.
In ODIs he not only lacks impact but sometimes gets himself in shell. We saw that in decider vs india where he got 60 odd at sr less than 80. Though he had a good ct but a complete failure in WC
In t20s he is TBH completely useless. Hasnt even got one good knock in t20s. Complete failure in wc and in run chase of more than 170
 
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Williamson is a very underrated player. Does not get the headlines that Smith, Root and Kohli get, but he is right at their level.
 
Do you know what the word "overrated" means? Kane is underrated, if anything. The most overrated member of the Fab 4 distinction is a tie between Virat Kohli and Joe Root.
 
Bilal7 said:
Do you know what the word "overrated" means? Kane is underrated, if anything. The most overrated member of the Fab 4 distinction is a tie between Virat Kohli and Joe Root.
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You are confusing highly rated with over-rated.

Kohli is the best by far because he is the world's best in one format (ODI) and absolutely world-class in the other two.

The rest are world-class and Smith #1 in Test. And they vary from useless to good in T20 and none of them are close to Kohli in ODI.

Over-rated is Kane because he is compared with Kohli though he is a limited batsman who can't compete in 2/3 of formats.
 
Overrated?????? no way is that Kane Williamson. He might not be No.1 batsman in the world but he definitely isn't overrated. He's more like underrated, he's competing with Root, Kohli and Smith. Also New Zealand aren't the side that Australia, India and England are they've got a few more consistent players and more match winners.
 
Smudger said:
His conversion rate in test is not very good. Doesnt have a lot of runs in asia.
I
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He has 2 tons in Aus & WI. One each in Ind, UAE, BD, SL, Eng and Zim. Total 10 away tons.

Smith and Kohli also have 10 away tons. Problem is with Root with only 3 away tons.

In ODIs, he is not a gun batsman, but in test why will you call him overrated? Also, Apart from Kohli, none of the so called Fab 4 are too good in ODI.
 
In truth, there is no Fab Four - only Fab One.

Kohli is well ahead of the pack when you take all three formats into consideration. Nonetheless, Smith, Root and Williamson are all elite batsmen as well.

PPers need to overcome their desperation of trying to prove that all of them are overrated.
 
Mamoon said:
In truth, there is no Fab Four - only Fab One.

Kohli is well ahead of the pack when you take all three formats into consideration. Nonetheless, Smith, Root and Williamson are all elite batsmen as well.

PPers need to overcome their desperation of trying to prove that all of them are overrated.
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Wait for Smith to have a couple of bad series and he will be called ovverated on this forum LOL.
 
Although his stats are not as good as the others - I always thought he had the best technique and stance amongst the Fab 4.

In the long term - he will be the most prolific run scorer after Kohli considering all 3 formats.
 
Root is by far the most overrated of the so called fab 4. He is proving to be a dud in Australia where Kane has at least proven himself.
 
Hasan123 said:
Wait for Smith to have a couple of bad series and he will be called ovverated on this forum LOL.
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He is overrated in ODi's though and simply mediocre in T20's.

However, his stellar Test form more than makes up for it :)
 
Kane's isn't rated highly enough to be overrated and unlike Root, he had a patch where he was one of the best in the world.
 
Smudger said:
His conversion rate in test is not very good. Doesnt have a lot of runs in asia.
In ODIs he not only lacks impact but sometimes gets himself in shell. We saw that in decider vs india where he got 60 odd at sr less than 80. Though he had a good ct but a complete failure in WC
In t20s he is TBH completely useless. Hasnt even got one good knock in t20s. Complete failure in wc and in run chase of more than 170
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His conversion rate is A LOT better than Root's.

Last I checked, it was 28 v 40 which is significant.

And these are numbers for someone's who bats at 3 and essentially opens often.

He doesn't hide behind the other batsmen like Root does and expect them to win matches.
 
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Bilal7 said:
Do you know what the word "overrated" means? Kane is underrated, if anything. The most overrated member of the Fab 4 distinction is a tie between Virat Kohli and Joe Root.
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Its a fashion and some people's bitter habit to bash Kohli without thinking or considering the context.
 
Mamoon said:
In truth, there is no Fab Four - only Fab One.

Kohli is well ahead of the pack when you take all three formats into consideration. Nonetheless, Smith, Root and Williamson are all elite batsmen as well.

PPers need to overcome their desperation of trying to prove that all of them are overrated.
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This.

Kohli is the only one who is elite across formats.

Smith is an all time great in Tests, Australian great in ODIs (probably wouldn't make an all time Aus XI) and a passenger in T20s.

Kane is a NZ great in Tests, serviceable in ODIs and a passenger in T20s.

Root is an English great in Tests, good in ODIs and serviable in T20s.
 
Mamoon said:
In truth, there is no Fab Four - only Fab One.

Kohli is well ahead of the pack when you take all three formats into consideration. Nonetheless, Smith, Root and Williamson are all elite batsmen as well.

PPers need to overcome their desperation of trying to prove that all of them are overrated.
Click to expand...

Smith doesn't deserve to be held a tier below Kohli across all formats, he is to tests at the moment what Kohli is to ODIs: On his way to reach a state where only historic anomalies (ODI Viv, Bradman) have ventured. I do think Kohli is the best of the bunch, but it should be a fab 2 if we're fair to Smith at his current trajectory. Remains to be seen where he ends up but like Kohli in ODIs, he's practically at the "ATG almost no matter what" stage in tests.
 
HuzaifaE said:
Smith doesn't deserve to be held a tier below Kohli across all formats, he is to tests at the moment what Kohli is to ODIs: On his way to reach a state where only historic anomalies (ODI Viv, Bradman) have ventured. I do think Kohli is the best of the bunch, but it should be a fab 2 if we're fair to Smith at his current trajectory. Remains to be seen where he ends up but like Kohli in ODIs, he's practically at the "ATG almost no matter what" stage in tests.
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If Kohli succeeds overseas, he will have surpassed Smith IMO.
 
Aman said:
If Kohli succeeds overseas, he will have surpassed Smith IMO.
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Overall? sure, I can agree to that, if he gets closer to Smith in tests, he takes it across all three formats for sure, but till now, Smith's test record has such few kinks that it's hard to envisage any current player beating him in tests unless the hypothesis of his hand-eye-coordination faltering in his early 30s leaves a gap for other conventional members of the Fab 4 to capitalize in the latter end of their careers.
 
HuzaifaE said:
Smith doesn't deserve to be held a tier below Kohli across all formats, he is to tests at the moment what Kohli is to ODIs:
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Agree that Smith is simply ahead in the test format and Kohli is ahead in ODI.

In T-20, Kohli is averaging 50+ with SR 135+. No one from the current lot averages even in 40s. Smith has done nothing in that format with avg of 21.

I will still keep both in same tier because I do rate test higher, but averaging 50+ with high SR shows that Kohli can excel in all formats. It's actually very hard task to be gun in all formats because you need different skill sets.
 
HuzaifaE said:
Smith doesn't deserve to be held a tier below Kohli across all formats, he is to tests at the moment what Kohli is to ODIs: On his way to reach a state where only historic anomalies (ODI Viv, Bradman) have ventured. I do think Kohli is the best of the bunch, but it should be a fab 2 if we're fair to Smith at his current trajectory. Remains to be seen where he ends up but like Kohli in ODIs, he's practically at the "ATG almost no matter what" stage in tests.
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Smith is not as versatile as Kohli. He is not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to T20Is.

Simply no one excels in all three formats like Kohli does. He is by far the best and the most complete batsman in the world. People may rate Tests the highest, but performing in all three formats shows your versatility.

Smith doesn’t underperform in T20Is because they are not important to him; he underperforms because he is not a complete batsman like Kohli.

He has devised a technique that works brilliantly in Tests, very well in ODIs, but not so much in T20Is.
 
Buffet said:
Agree that Smith is simply ahead in the test format and Kohli is ahead in ODI.

In T-20, Kohli is averaging 50+ with SR 135+. No one from the current lot averages even in 40s. Smith has done nothing in that format with avg of 21.

I will still keep both in same tier because I do rate test higher, but averaging 50+ with high SR shows that Kohli can excel in all formats. It's actually very hard task to be gun in all formats because you need different skill sets.
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Could he be the most complete batsmen ever?

He has it all man. Hunger to score runs, win matches, the talent, time, strokeplay and mental strength.

Outside his record in ICC tournaments, he's perfect.
 
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Smudger said:
His conversion rate in test is not very good. Doesnt have a lot of runs in asia.
In ODIs he not only lacks impact but sometimes gets himself in shell. We saw that in decider vs india where he got 60 odd at sr less than 80. Though he had a good ct but a complete failure in WC
In t20s he is TBH completely useless. Hasnt even got one good knock in t20s. Complete failure in wc and in run chase of more than 170
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Complete failure in the WC? He won us the big match against Australia when everyone else was crumbling. His 40 odd against a rampaging Starc was better than most 100s.
 
No I don't think he is overrated. He is a brilliant player. It is just that he isn't as flamboyant as the other 3, so he does not get much notice.
 
No.He is not overrated..Just out of form now a days,he will come up good.Root is more overrated batsman.
 
Mamoon said:
Smith is not as versatile as Kohli. He is not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to T20Is.

Simply no one excels in all three formats like Kohli does. He is by far the best and the most complete batsman in the world. People may rate Tests the highest, but performing in all three formats shows your versatility.

Smith doesn’t underperform in T20Is because they are not important to him; he underperforms because he is not a complete batsman like Kohli.

He has devised a technique that works brilliantly in Tests, very well in ODIs, but not so much in T20Is.
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Smith started playing as a batsman only in 2015 and in odis he averages 55 as a batsman . Moreover he is not a choker. Smith doesnt plays a lot t20i because he doesnt give a **** about this cricus. Smith outperform kohli everytime they play together. Kohli is a clone in swinging conditions. Cant even score against sl when ots swinging.
 
Kane and poor conversion rate.. Where is this coming from?

He has got 17 hundreds in 60 tests. OP explain plz.
 
Kohli isn't matching Smith in tests and t20s are least relevant format.

Whether people like it or not, it is fab two. No questions about that.

AB de Villiers is another batsmen who has excelled in all formats except t20s which is irrelevant.
 
Fab four is fab two. Not fab one or three.

Kohli is slightly ahead of Smith overall but they are in same tier. Its like Sachin and Lara from previous era. Sachin was two levels superior to Lara in odis.
 
Kane is the most complete batsmen of
The 4. His overall average keeps him below Smith, but in my opinion Kane is potentially better even than Smith.
 
Aman said:
Could he be the most complete batsmen ever?

He has it all man. Hunger to score runs, win matches, the talent, time, strokeplay and mental strength.

Outside his record in ICC tournaments, he's perfect.
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Most complete batsman ever is kind of bit too much. Kohli hasn't done too much in tough conditions in the test formats. Not saying that he doesn't have performances and he is a FTB, but he has to do a lot more to in the test format.
 
Over rated? It seems you have started watching cricket before an year.


Over rate are Root and Kohli.

No doubt Kohli is a master in ODI game, but he is just an average player in Test cricket especially in away conditions. And in upcoming cycle of away games will prove it further.
 
Hermoine Green said:
Over rated? It seems you have started watching cricket before an year.


Over rate are Root and Kohli.

No doubt Kohli is a master in ODI game, but he is just an average player in Test cricket especially in away conditions. And in upcoming cycle of away games will prove it further.
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In previous cycle, he did very well in all venues except Eng. Not sure why you think that he is an average in away conditions when only 1 batsman has more tons than him in away conditions in the last 10 years. I don't think he is great in the test format, but far from being an average.
 
Really? I mean he has 17 hundreds in 113 innings and overall 43 scores of 50 plus in 113 innings. Thats pretty good.
 
Mamoon said:
Smith is not as versatile as Kohli. He is not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to T20Is.

Simply no one excels in all three formats like Kohli does. He is by far the best and the most complete batsman in the world. People may rate Tests the highest, but performing in all three formats shows your versatility.

Smith doesn’t underperform in T20Is because they are not important to him; he underperforms because he is not a complete batsman like Kohli.

He has devised a technique that works brilliantly in Tests, very well in ODIs, but not so much in T20Is.
Click to expand...
The most versatile batsman is AB . Performed WC in series decider and what not. Fastest 50,100 and 150. AB put kohli to dust in 2015 series in all formats
 
Root and Williamson have disappointed.

Kohli and Smith make the opposition know who the boss is. Being skippers, they take charge as batsmen. An Ind v Aus tour right about now would have been so awesome.
 
Kohli needs a good ICC tournament to establish himself as an ATG. Rohit and Dhawan have been beasts in-terms of impact compared to Kohli in majority of the recent ICC tournaments.

Smith and Kohli make up the Fab 2, while Root and Williamson are a level below. All four are fantastic batsmen to be honest.
 
Root is the only one who is overrated.

Williamson usually punches above his weight, has played a lot of impact knocks over the years.
He is a bit limited when it comes to big shots, but he is better than Root in ODI's and Tests, and arguably better than Kohli in Tests.
 
Kane bats at 3 for a weak side where he essentially opens, whereas the other 3 are number 4 batsmen for strong sides he get plenty of opportunities away to perform.
 
Ab Fan said:
Kane and poor conversion rate.. Where is this coming from?

He has got 17 hundreds in 60 tests. OP explain plz.
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OP has no answer. What made him really say that his conversion rate is poor?
 
Unlike England and Australia, New Zealand is still an extremely bowling friendly country.

He's underrated. That's not even taking into account the average cricket team he plays for. I would say he's better then Kohli and Root.
 
Williamson is top class, like the other 3. He is neither underrated, nor overrated tbh. Goes under the radar because he isn't as flamboyant as a Virat or a Root or as ridiculous in one format as Smith has been. Probably the best player of fast bowling among the four for me though - in tests.

If we were considering all the formats, then he would probably be behind Virat and Root and ahead of Smith. But he does need to be more ruthless, guilty of giving away his wicket often after good starts. Hope NZ get more matches and we get to see more of him. Wonderful player and person.
 
1st test:- Fifty in first inning but missed out on second.

2nd test:- 28* but failed in 2nd inning.

Unlucky to miss out on big one or overrated?
 
He deserves to be in top 4 to say the least! Problem with him is all other top 4 members play for the so called big 3' as a result he just does not play enough. If he played as many games as others specially at home he will have similar record. Ability wise he is just as good.
 
BaankeJi said:
Well some batsmen are better than others .
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there is Kohli and then daylight..everyone else is in the group behind..Fab 4 bakwaas is just to hype up some of the big three players and introduce a false rivalry. Nothing like the real fab 4 which was the allrounders of the 80's. This so called fab 4 is jaali..nukli..
 
He is suffering from having to carry a very poor inconsistent batting line up
 
He's not overrated at all. Everytime he comes to the crease he oozes class and makes batting look easy.
 
the Great Khan said:
there is Kohli and then daylight..everyone else is in the group behind..Fab 4 bakwaas is just to hype up some of the big three players and introduce a false rivalry. Nothing like the real fab 4 which was the allrounders of the 80's. This so called fab 4 is jaali..nukli..
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Yeah tbh Root is nowhere near Kohli as a batsman, Root's stats flatter him really. He is good but Kohli is incomparably better. I don't have enough data on Williamson. Smith is decent however.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
Yeah tbh Root is nowhere near Kohli as a batsman, Root's stats flatter him really. He is good but Kohli is incomparably better. I don't have enough data on Williamson. Smith is decent however.
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Smith is better than kholi in tests! Overall kholi is better. Root is very good and probably below KW who in my opinion is just slightly better than Root.
 
No he is not overrated. Avg of 50 in a 8year test career is some achievement. Fans just watch one game or two if player fails we 'll label him overrated or worse ever to represent. one 100 and we 'll label them as greatest.

Kane has proved he is mentally tough and solid in technique in different conditions. Ups and downs are part of the game. He is no way overrated.
 
No one in the fab four is overrated. And for a fact, Kohli has surpassed the fab four and is above the league of the rest.
 
Apart from his debut test he has been very mediocre in India as well, sample size is also quite large with 7 tests. Averages 35 odd at 42 SR and if you remove his debut 100 way back in 2010 on a Motera flat bed, it drops to some 27 odd. Very surprising because he is a technically accomplished batsman. Didn't look like a threat even in 2016 when he came here in rich form, may be it's a mental thing. Hope he rediscovers his mojo soon, class act and my favorite non-Indian batsman at present.
 
hermoine green said:
over rated? It seems you have started watching cricket before an year.


Over rate are root and kohli.

No doubt kohli is a master in odi game, but he is just an average player in test cricket especially in away conditions. and in upcoming cycle of away games will prove it further.
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oops!
 
Fab 4 is a sham. Kohli is incomparable at the moment. Farrrr ahead of others in every format. Steve Smith was his rival in tests ( even ahead of Kohli to be honest) but not any more.
 
Pressure of inconsistent batting partners bogs him down. He is better than root. And better than smith on swinging pitches.
 
He is technically brilliant but perhaps doesn't score prolifically. Outside the Australia away series, I doubt he scored a lot more in any particular series. One of reasons why he averages like mid 30s in lots of countries.
 
No one amongst the fab 4 is overrated.
All of them have shown why they are called fab 4.
By the time they retire i bet they will be as good as the fab 4 of past times(sachin,lara,ponting,kallis).
We overrate the past and underrate what we have got.
This guy has just played the innings of a lifetime. Hatsoff.
 
One of the greatest knocks by a SENAW batsman in Asia, an ATG 100 which will do a lot for Kane's legacy.
 
Brilliant knock. All of the Fab four have done justice to the hype.
 
I feel Smith and Williamson will leave the biggest legacies. Smith has been the best test batsman of his era (nobody has even been close), whereas Williamson has been by far the best captain of the decade. Kohli was rivaled by ABD in ODIs for most of his career, and Root has been a mediocre captain and not the best in any department in any format.
 
Joseph Gomes said:
I feel Smith and Williamson will leave the biggest legacies. Smith has been the best test batsman of his era (nobody has even been close), whereas Williamson has been by far the best captain of the decade. Kohli was rivaled by ABD in ODIs for most of his career, and Root has been a mediocre captain and not the best in any department in any format.
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The Fab Four are making their case for the top 10 best batsman of this millennium.

Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Ricky Ponting
Jacques Kallis
Kumar Sangakkara
Rahul Dravid
AB de Villiers
Virat Kohli
Steve Smith
Kane Williamson
Joe Root
 
He played a fantastic innings today. I don't think any of the other has played such a good innings in T20's.
 
I don't think he is overrated. He is possibly the best cricketer from New Zealand ever.
 
Superb player Kane. I was wrong. He was brilliant in wc19 and now played so well in the final despite failing throughout the tournament
 
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