Why is Jofra Archer considered the most overrated cricketer in history?

[Forum363]

No hate but can someone explain to me why Archer gets more hype than any other player I've seen since I've been following cricket.

He's a good bowler and has a couple of skills like decent pace and a terrific bouncer.

He performed well in the World Cup in 19 and a couple of Tests but has also been poor in many outings.

He's similar to Wahab Riaz or Neil Wagner, just luckier than he has Stokes and a stronger team which lead to a World Cup. And apart from that, he has awful fitness and a terrible attitude.

So for example, he just got 4 wickets against South Africa, a meaningless match where the batters had racked up 400, so South Africa had no choice but to go hard.

A good performance but the main headline on cricinfo is about 'Unbelievable Archer primed for Ashes impact'. He's not in the same league as Rabada, Cummins, Starc, Bumrah, et all.

So why the hype? I just want to understand.

 

[Ab Fan]

That “terrific bouncer” term is what sells in the market. Hence, he gets the hype.

In reality, he is same as many other good bowlers who do well when there is enough in the pitch and otherwise they fell flat. In case of Archer, add the extra caution of keeping him for only high profile matches.

 

[Forum363]

That “terrific bouncer” term is what sells in the market. Hence, he gets the hype.

In reality, he is same as many other good bowlers who do well when there is enough in the pitch and otherwise they fell flat. In case of Archer, add the extra caution of keeping him for only high profile matches.

But Wagner is even better at that and has shown he can do it over an extended period of times, bowling crazy long spells, even with a broken toe to win Tests for his nation.

 

[Mamoon]

A fit Archer is the most watchable fast bowler in the world. His talent is insane.

England have no chance of competing in the Ashes unless he is playing all 5 Tests.

OP is just obsessed with him and sees him in his nightmares.

 

[Ab Fan]

But Wagner is even better at that and has shown he can do it over an extended period of times, bowling crazy long spells, even with a broken toe to win Tests for his nation.

Archer is more intimidating with new ball. At his pace with the new ball and the bounce he generates can be intimidating for any batsman.

Wagner was one dimensional and operated in 135 kph range. Bouncers at that speed even with aggressive and relentless style of bowling won’t trouble batsman too long.

Having said that, Wagner had a heart of warrior - relentless bowling and all grit and toughness.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Because he's English

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

A fit Archer is the most watchable fast bowler in the world. His talent is insane.

England have no chance of competing in the Ashes unless he is playing all 5 Tests.

OP is just obsessed with him and sees him in his

There is absolutely no possibility of him playing all 5 test matches.
He will play 4 at best, not even sure about that tbh.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Wagner is underrated, he is on a different class when compared to Wahab Riaz.

 

[atreus]

watch him bowl, his nip backers are top tier, he effortlessly generates a ridiculous amount of pace, he maintains his pace and so forth. He's an excellent bowler as far as talent goes, just watch him bowl in his first Ashes, he also has the sympathetic factor of being such a greatly talented Cricketer with a falling body.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You can't be serious comparing Jofra to Wahab Riaz. Have you seen Wahab's numbers?

Archer has struggled with injuries alot, which have derailed his career. But that doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic bowler when he's fit.

He also played an integral role in England's first and only World Cup victory, which people will always remember.

He's an underachiever, because if he wasn't so injury-prone he may very likely be one of the best fast-bowlers in the world. But I wouldn't call him overrated.

 

[Hellion]

Most overrated cricketer in history ?

How can that be Archer? Even English cricket commentators haven't gone overboard in their praise of Archer.

 

[mominsaigol]

As long as Misbah, Babar, Rizwan exist. Archer cannot he considered the most overrated.

 

[atreus]

as far as critics, commentators and ex players go, the most overrated Cricketer in the history of the great sport is Abdul Qadir. the likes of Gooch, Imran and Sobers have deemed him in the same tier as Shane Warne, when in actuality his away bowling average is worse than Joe Root's overseas bowling average.

 

[atreus]

England have no chance of competing in the Ashes unless he is playing all 5 Tests.

OP is just obsessed with him and sees him in his nightmares.

I reckon he will play 3 and Wood will play 3, rotation policy, if the Pink ball Test is a 150 all out shoot off then maybe Archer can do 4. Atkinson, Carse and Stokes will play all.

 

[light]

Don't think i've ever seen a bowler hit the stumps and the ball flies outside the boundary as if a 6 was hit. Hype earned

 

[Mamoon]

I just took note of the thread title and it is comical.

The OP is insinuating that Archer is generally considered to be the most overrated cricketer in history when the OP himself is the only one who thinks that way.

What a pointless thread.

 

[Forum363]

There have been plenty of bowlers who start with a bang and look exciting so none of these points explain why he's overrated this much.

'Underachieved and exciting on potential doesn't mean anything.'

So were the likes of Umar Akmal.

What ultimately matters is your performance, and he has been a good not great bowler.

And yes he is overrated because he's referred to in the same league as the best bowlers of this generation.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

You simply can't put Wagner and Wahab Riaz in the same category. Wagner would take wickets.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

His career has been underwhelming, I wont call him the most overrated player though.

 

[Forum363]

You simply can't put Wagner and Wahab Riaz in the same category. Wagner would take wickets.

Agreed but the style is similar. Left arm, bouncer specialists.

Wagner is definitely in another class. But I think Wagner is better than Archer yet he’s not hyped like that.

 

[Ball Blazer]

He is not overrated at all. Had the injury period not happened, he would have done a lot more

 

[Forum363]

His career has been underwhelming, I wont call him the most overrated player though.

He’s a good player with an underwhelming career.

But name another player with such normal stats and low wickets (or even runs) who gets talked about like this.

And it’s not like he’s new. Hes been playing for 6 years.

The only achievement he’s known for is conceding 15 runs in a super over and getting lucky because of the boundary count and from Stokes’ superhuman heroics earlier. And an ashes test where he hit Steve Smith on the helmet (but didn’t get him out).

So what achievements does he actually have as a bowler in 6 years of international cricket.

 

[Forum363]

He is not overrated at all. Had the injury period not happened, he would have done a lot more

Before he was injured he was rubbish in his first away series.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

He’s a good player with an underwhelming career.

But name another player with such normal stats and low wickets (or even runs) who gets talked about like this.

And it’s not like he’s new. Hes been playing for 6 years.

The only achievement he’s known for is conceding 15 runs in a super over and getting lucky because of the boundary count and from Stokes’ superhuman heroics earlier. And an ashes test where he hit Steve Smith on the helmet (but didn’t get him out).

So what achievements does he actually have as a bowler in 6 years of international cricket.

Yeah, I do understand your perspective.

He was projected as a future ATG potential bowler but as of now he averages 30.6 in tests which is quite average.

Even his marquee series’ highlight was him hitting bouncers to Steve Smith without getting him out.

Still, if you watch him bowl at full fitness you will see a quality pacer who has both pace and nip in his delivery, he gets extra bounce too.

He has two major problems
1. Not fit enough
2. Not an intelligent bowler and hence won’t ever come close to averaging < 25.

The reality is that he will always be hyped as an ATG potential bowler but he will never come close to it and thats not due to fitness but intelligence.

He will show glimpses of brilliance where he would look like an Atg bowler in that short period but that’s about it.

 

[Devadwal]

He is decent pacer but overhyped by English expert and wannabe supporter

 

[Ab Fan]

Yeah, I do understand your perspective.

He was projected as a future ATG potential bowler but as of now he averages 30.6 in tests which is quite average.

Even his marquee series’ highlight was him hitting bouncers to Steve Smith without getting him out.

Still, if you watch him bowl at full fitness you will see a quality pacer who has both pace and nip in his delivery, he gets extra bounce too.

He has two major problems
1. Not fit enough
2. Not an intelligent bowler and hence won’t ever come close to averaging < 25.

The reality is that he will always be hyped as an ATG potential bowler but he will never come close to it and thats not due to fitness but intelligence.

He will show glimpses of brilliance where he would look like an Atg bowler in that short period but that’s about it.

Yeah that’s right. Not the most intelligent bowler out there which is why when the pitch doesn’t have anything in it, he goes all flat.

 

[SherWaqar]

Definately overrated… doesn’t mean he is not talented. I remember Wisden wrote a whole piece after a recent Test match..one would think he took ten wickets in the match lol.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Agreed but the style is similar. Left arm, bouncer specialists.

Wagner is definitely in another class. But I think Wagner is better than Archer yet he’s not hyped like that.

Wahab would rarely take wickets. Playing him was like playing with one pacer short with him playing just to bowl bouncers to unsettle batters. 35 tests and not even 100 test wickets by that guy. His good attribute was his fitness and willingness to bowl long spells. Apart from that, he was an awful bowler in all formats.
Wagner was a proper bowler. Someone who would not just unsettle batters but get them out as well. His bowling average is a testament to that. And he would run in all day without breaking down. Archer doesn't have that attribute. Wagner even bowled for a whole day or 2 with a broken foot against Pakistan.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

Naah, Archer is a great player just injury prone and doesn't play much.

Was pivotal in both 19 Ashes and the 19 WC.

 

[Forum363]

Definately overrated… doesn’t mean he is not talented. I remember Wisden wrote a whole piece after a recent Test match..one would think he took ten wickets in the match lol.

This is exactly what I mean. The top headline on cricinfo was 'Unbelievable Archer primed for Ashes impact' as a comment from his own coach after a 4 wicket hall in a meaningless ODI where South Africa had to go hard.

 

[Forum363]

Yeah, I do understand your perspective.

He was projected as a future ATG potential bowler but as of now he averages 30.6 in tests which is quite average.

Even his marquee series’ highlight was him hitting bouncers to Steve Smith without getting him out.

Still, if you watch him bowl at full fitness you will see a quality pacer who has both pace and nip in his delivery, he gets extra bounce too.

He has two major problems
1. Not fit enough
2. Not an intelligent bowler and hence won’t ever come close to averaging < 25.

The reality is that he will always be hyped as an ATG potential bowler but he will never come close to it and thats not due to fitness but intelligence.

He will show glimpses of brilliance where he would look like an Atg bowler in that short period but that’s about it.

Perfectly summed up.

Hassan Ali was brilliant in his first trophy - CT 17 and helped pakistan to the cup, but he right got criticised when we was unable to keep it.

Archer is living off a single summer's performance as a rookie.

Ajantha mendis and many bowlers, even batters have started with a bang. Does not meet they should keep getting hyped 6 years later with very little performance to show for it.

 

[TexasRattlesnake]

Perfectly summed up.

Hassan Ali was brilliant in his first trophy - CT 17 and helped pakistan to the cup, but he right got criticised when we was unable to keep it.

Archer is living off a single summer's performance as a rookie.

Ajantha mendis and many bowlers, even batters have started with a bang. Does not meet they should keep getting hyped 6 years later with very little performance to show for it.

Naah, Hasan had massive downfall.

Archer still is good when he does get on the field.

 

[mominsaigol]

He is decent pacer but overhyped by English expert and wannabe supporter

I've never hyped Archer or talked about him. I juat found it funny how you of all people were trash talking him and yet took the 3 moat important wickets vs India in AT and won the match despite being absent in test for a millenia.

No how many tests did India win vs england when Bumrah was playing .

Bumrah is a better bowler though. Also you of all people should be the last to diss Atreus.

Atreus is top 5 posters of PP and is defo > me. You on the other hand?

I genuinely struggle to find a single poster worse then you. I can only think of Heddie and Golu Momin who is juat your alt lol. Genuinely im trying my hardest amongst indians and Pakistani and even your clown gang is superior.

I'm actually trying my damn hardest to find someone worse then you lol .

 

[Devadwal]

I've never hyped Archer or talked about him. I juat found it funny how you of all people were trash talking him and yet took the 3 moat important wickets vs India in AT and won the match despite being absent in test for a millenia.

No how many tests did India win vs england when Bumrah was playing .

Bumrah is a better bowler though. Also you of all people should be the last to diss Atreus.

Atreus is top 5 posters of PP and is defo > me. You on the other hand?

I genuinely struggle to find a single poster worse then you. I can only think of Heddie and Golu Momin who is juat your alt lol. Genuinely im trying my hardest amongst indians and Pakistani and even your clown gang is superior.

I'm actually trying my damn hardest to find someone worse then you lol .

Why doing you think I'm talking about you. There are dozens wannabe English supporter here.

You're nothing so I'll talk about you. Lol

 

[mominsaigol]

Why doing you think I'm talking about you. There are dozens wannabe English supporter here.

You're nothing so I'll talk about you. Lol

Everyone is a wannabe except you? The irony .

Oh I forgot you had to be an Indian to be a goat. And a jaipurian to be a super goat.

I'm nothing so you'll talk about me? I feel honored. You're talking to be non stop

 

[BouncerGuy]

CAN YOU GUYS MOVE ON FROM THIS PERSONAL CONVERSATION???

 

[Forum363]

Naah, Hasan had massive downfall.

Archer still is good when he does get on the field.

Hassan has 80 test wickets at 27 while Archer has 51 wickets at 31.

Agreed that Hassan shouldn't be in the team and has dropped off but why is Archer so key for the Ashes?

 

[Ball Blazer]

Archer struck twice up front by removing Weatherald and Labuschagne, and with his early breakthroughs Australia are currently 6 down in the first Ashes Test.

 

[Forum363]

So, 4 tests done, Archer's first test series in years with all the hype. He was fully fit and supposed to lead an England attack that was thoroughly depleted and new.

He ended up at the 4th best bowler behind:

Carse
Tongue
Stokes

His attitude stunk throughout as it always has in his career and he lasted 3 tests before getting injured again.

He was a big reason England were not able to compete better in this series. No coincidence that the only test without him is the Test england went onto win with all the bowlers stepping up.

I dont know how serious the injury is, but I would be surprised to see him playing test cricket for england again.

Are we finally done with the hype?

 

[TheSultan]

So, 4 tests done, Archer's first test series in years with all the hype. He was fully fit and supposed to lead an England attack that was thoroughly depleted and new.

He ended up at the 4th best bowler behind:

Carse
Tongue
Stokes

His attitude stunk throughout as it always has in his career and he lasted 3 tests before getting injured again.

He was a big reason England were not able to compete better in this series. No coincidence that the only test without him is the Test england went onto win with all the bowlers stepping up.

I dont know how serious the injury is, but I would be surprised to see him playing test cricket for england again.

Are we finally done with the hype?

No lies detected.

Archer at 145k+ can be an asset, but it seems like he can’t or won’t operate at that level consistently. Archer at 133k is worse than your average 130k trundler.

 

[Forum363]

No lies detected.

Archer at 145k+ can be an asset, but it seems like he can’t or won’t operate at that level consistently. Archer at 133k is worse than your average 130k trundler.

Even at 145+, all he did in that second test was bowl bouncers at Steve Smith and trash talk when the match was already lost.

You can see the difference in skill level between him and the Aussie bowlers. Even Boland is far ahead in terms of skills.

 

[Katwalindian]

You can't be serious comparing Jofra to Wahab Riaz. Have you seen Wahab's numbers?

Archer has struggled with injuries alot, which have derailed his career. But that doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic bowler when he's fit.

He also played an integral role in England's first and only World Cup victory, which people will always remember.

He's an underachiever, because if he wasn't so injury-prone he may very likely be one of the best fast-bowlers in the world. But I wouldn't call him overrated.

Wahad had great numbers in icc world cups

 

[ElRaja]

this guy left the west indies to ensure he had a more lucrative career in the UK, if you think hes gonna risk his league career by going all out in test matches you have another thing coming. hes a good bowler, but he'll never go all out over multiple red ball matches.

 

[HitWicket]

So, 4 tests done, Archer's first test series in years with all the hype. He was fully fit and supposed to lead an England attack that was thoroughly depleted and new.

He ended up at the 4th best bowler behind:

Carse
Tongue
Stokes


His attitude stunk throughout as it always has in his career and he lasted 3 tests before getting injured again.

He was a big reason England were not able to compete better in this series. No coincidence that the only test without him is the Test england went onto win with all the bowlers stepping up.

I dont know how serious the injury is, but I would be surprised to see him playing test cricket for england again.

Are we finally done with the hype?

There are far simpler ways to tell us you're clueless/haven't watched this series at all than a long post like this.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Who called him the most overrated cricketer in history though? That feels like a massive exaggeration given the history and depth of the sport, and the sheer number of players it has produced.

 

[Ab Fan]

A fit Archer is the most watchable fast bowler in the world. His talent is insane.

England have no chance of competing in the Ashes unless he is playing all 5 Tests.

OP is just obsessed with him and sees him in his nightmares.

England’s best chance was after they dropped Archer and get to dead rubber test and as a result, they won in MCG.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Overhyped... A bowler who is made of glass... Gets injured quicker than he bowls fast.

 

[Forum363]

England’s best chance was after they dropped Archer and get to dead rubber test and as a result, they won in MCG.

Ignore his statements. He called archer the best in the world after a few matches.

 

[Forum363]

There are far simpler ways to tell us you're clueless/haven't watched this series at all than a long post like this.

Did you watch the series? Did you see the trash he bowled at the key moments?

Statistically and performance wise, he underperformed compared to the other bowlers.

 

[Forum363]

Who called him the most overrated cricketer in history though? That feels like a massive exaggeration given the history and depth of the sport, and the sheer number of players it has produced.

It's obvious if you look at the hype he gets constantly. Even leading up to the ashes there were articles about how 'Archer primed' is ready to take on the Aussies and the constant overrating his basic performances.

Name any other cricketer who gets this hype despite doing nothing for 6+ years now.

 

[Forum363]

A fit Archer is the most watchable fast bowler in the world. His talent is insane.

England have no chance of competing in the Ashes unless he is playing all 5 Tests.

OP is just obsessed with him and sees him in his nightmares.

Hilarious, another in a long line of great predictions. England lost the matches he played and won as soon as he wasnt in the playing 11.

Outbowled by a 'finished' stokes, a newbie like Tongue and average bowlers like Carse.

 

[HitWicket]

Did you watch the series?

Yes, I did. Anyone who suggets he's been England's 4th best bowler in this series clearly didnt.

 

[Forum363]

Yes, I did. Anyone who suggets he's been England's 4th best bowler in this series clearly didnt.

Well you clearly cant elaborate on it. Look at the stats. Look at his performance at key moments.

Test 1 - Bowled well in the first innings but was outbowled by Carse and Stokes. Got taken apart in the second innings.
Test 2 - took 1 wicket the whole test match, was unable to exert any pressure. Bowled fast when the match was finished and was hit around like a joker.
Test 3 - Got 5 wickets in the first innings but if you watched the match you would see how much rubbish he bowled. He kept going off plan, stokes was pissed, but he got the wickets so at least thats something. Was then missing in the second innings again.

So yes Stokes bowled better than him, Carse took wickets throughout, Tongue was definitely better than him.

So explain in what way was Archer better?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's obvious if you look at the hype he gets constantly. Even leading up to the ashes there were articles about how 'Archer primed' is ready to take on the Aussies and the constant overrating his basic performances.

Name any other cricketer who gets this hype despite doing nothing for 6+ years now.

From what I've seen most cricketers from England and India, who have even the slightest bit of talent get hyped excessively. With England it's an old thing going back decades, with India it's a relatively recent thing linked with India's rise in cricket. I can think of plenty of Indian fast-bowlers before Shami/Bumrah etc. who were hyped excessively but turned out to be pretty mediocre.

Is Archer overrated? Probably. Has he underachieved? yeah. But is still a World Cup winner with a okay record with the ball, and that alone puts him out of contention for being the "most overrated cricketer in history."

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yes, I did. Anyone who suggets he's been England's 4th best bowler in this series clearly didnt.

Yeah, he is probably Englands 5th best bowler in this series.

 

[Forum363]

From what I've seen most cricketers from England and India, who have even the slightest bit of talent get hyped excessively. With England it's an old thing going back decades, with India it's a relatively recent thing linked with India's rise in cricket. I can think of plenty of Indian fast-bowlers before Shami/Bumrah etc. who were hyped excessively but turned out to be pretty mediocre.

Is Archer overrated? Probably. Has he underachieved? yeah. But is still a World Cup winner with a okay record with the ball, and that alone puts him out of contention for being the "most overrated cricketer in history."

But why is he rated higher than Plunkett or Wood for example who are also World Cup winners and who contributed to the victory?

The World Cup victory definitely contributed to his hype as did the ashes tests that followed but thats why he is so overrated.

Anyone who looks at it critically can see that he failed to defend a very high score of 15 in the super over against an out of form Guptil and Neesham. I bet 8/10 bowlers would back themselves to defend that on that pitch, under those circumstances. He just got lucky because of the boundary count rule.

 

[Sachin fan]

From what I've seen most cricketers from England and India, who have even the slightest bit of talent get hyped excessively. With England it's an old thing going back decades, with India it's a relatively recent thing linked with India's rise in cricket. I can think of plenty of Indian fast-bowlers before Shami/Bumrah etc. who were hyped excessively but turned out to be pretty mediocre.

Is Archer overrated? Probably. Has he underachieved? yeah. But is still a World Cup winner with a okay record with the ball, and that alone puts him out of contention for being the "most overrated cricketer in history."

That world cup super over he bowled was one of the worst ever and even his last ball was a hit me ball in the slot on leg side. which guptill got too scared to hit and tried to just run 2 runs on the ground.