Kapil Dev: "Yes, India are chokers, there is no denying it!"

[Ahmed216]

Disagree with the legend. I think India is just not good enough to win major tournaments. There is a talent crisis in the country. Anyone who saw them bowl in WC could tell

 

[Local.Dada]

Disagree with the legend. I think India is just not good enough to win major tournaments. There is a talent crisis in the country. Anyone who saw them bowl in WC could tell

Well India did top the group and didn’t need a back door entry for the knockouts . Yes we played badly and were mediocre but the standards in cricket are low that we are still the top 2 or maybe 3 team in all formats. I think you are getting carried away here.

 

[Local.Dada]

If T20 is a "lottery" format, then why haven't Zim and Ned making the semis?
Why are 4 of the top 5 ICC ranked teams in the semis?

Upsets have happened in ODI WCs as well and I saw once Kenya made an ODI WC semi final.

What I see is that T20I the margins are smaller but the better team does win more consistently.

That is why India is the no.1 ranked T20 team in the world. That ranking is earned on consistency you are talking about.

I am not defending Indias performance in the World Cup or the crappy selections but why do I get the feeling everyone understands what I am saying but just want to skirt around the obvious.

The margin between the top 3 teams and the rest reduces as the format changes or gets smaller.

 

[Hextro]

Avesh was replaced by a spinner because the UAE conditions forced them to go with an extra spin option and Avesh was not performing well with the bowl too.

Bumrah is the "spearhead" of India's bowling lineup. Spearheads don't get replaced no matter the conditions. Avesh wasn't only replaced by a 3rd class spinner he was also replaced by a "fast" bowler in the form of Chahar. Avesh's bowling quota was filled by Pandya in the remaining matches of the Asia Cup which I'm imagining would've also happened to Bumrah as well if he was playing according to you.

That has got nothing to do with Bumrah. Had Bumrah been fit, the World T20 bowling attack would have been Bhuvi, Arshdeep, and Bumrah. Arshdeep already had to merit his spot by a player of the series award vs Windies and then a good performance following that.

You clearly don't understand my point. I wasn't talking about mere squad replacements. Arshdeep was brought in to fill Bumrah's role and Avesh wasn't. Arshdeep and Bumrah are the same types of bowlers in terms of what the captain asks from them. Both have the role of bowling at least two overs in the powerplay to try to get early wickets and then bowl at the death.

Bumrah has played 5 T20I matches this year in which he has bowled his first 2 overs in the 2nd and 4th over of the match 3 times. The two time he didn't bowl two overs in the powerplay was when he was smashed out of the attack by Australia and when the match was shortened to 8 overs due to rain.

Unlike Bumrah Avesh doesn't bowl his first 2 overs in the powerplay, he mostly bowls the last over of the powerplay and in the middle overs. Arshdeep on the other hand bowls exactly in the same period of the match where Bumrah bowls. Two overs in the powerplay and two overs at the death.

If either Bumrah or Arshdeep plays together one of them will have to change the phase in which they bowl because they both bowl at the same stages of the game as I have mentioned previously.

Bumrah and Arshdeep have never played a match together in T20Is while Avesh and Bumrah have played together.

I didn't think I was saying anything complicated but you never fail to amaze me with how dense you can be.

In baby language(the only language you might understand) Avesh and Bumrah do not have the same role. Arshdeep and Bumrah do have the same role. Understand? or are we going to another trademark Ab_fan moment?

you are basically showing your low IQ mentality which to be honest is expected from the nationality you belong to.

Being called low IQ is especially insulting when it comes from someone that's known for it. Why are you on a forum made by and for people with a "low IQ mentality"? You spend a lot of time interacting with Pakistanis for someone that thinks so lowly of them. Perhaps obsession might be the reason for that. It's quite common in your countrymen.

 

[happydavy]

It was just a terrific day for England just like Babar and Rizwan had a great day when chasing 200 against England recently, you can't call the other team poor if they are outclassed by other team , it's cricket , these things happened , I would say Indian team are still definitely in the Top 3 worldcricket and if they play against 7 match series they will end up losing 3/4 which is again not bad.

Problem is in cricket ranking doesn't matter. It's a game played by 7-8 major countries eventually so ranking doesn't mean anything. Hence trophies matter.

 

[Local.Dada]

Problem is in cricket ranking doesn't matter. It's a game played by 7-8 major countries eventually so ranking doesn't mean anything. Hence trophies matter.

Lol confusing statement. 7-8 countries play cricket so a team consistently performing and maintaining the ranking doesn’t matter but a shoot out like scenario between those teams where anyone can beat anyone on a day matters.


Obviously tournaments matter but it’s not one over the other.

 

[Local.Dada]

Bumrah is the "spearhead" of India's bowling lineup. Spearheads don't get replaced no matter the conditions. Avesh wasn't only replaced by a 3rd class spinner he was also replaced by a "fast" bowler in the form of Chahar. Avesh's bowling quota was filled by Pandya in the remaining matches of the Asia Cup which I'm imagining would've also happened to Bumrah as well if he was playing according to you.



You clearly don't understand my point. I wasn't talking about mere squad replacements. Arshdeep was brought in to fill Bumrah's role and Avesh wasn't. Arshdeep and Bumrah are the same types of bowlers in terms of what the captain asks from them. Both have the role of bowling at least two overs in the powerplay to try to get early wickets and then bowl at the death.

Bumrah has played 5 T20I matches this year in which he has bowled his first 2 overs in the 2nd and 4th over of the match 3 times. The two time he didn't bowl two overs in the powerplay was when he was smashed out of the attack by Australia and when the match was shortened to 8 overs due to rain.

Unlike Bumrah Avesh doesn't bowl his first 2 overs in the powerplay, he mostly bowls the last over of the powerplay and in the middle overs. Arshdeep on the other hand bowls exactly in the same period of the match where Bumrah bowls. Two overs in the powerplay and two overs at the death.

If either Bumrah or Arshdeep plays together one of them will have to change the phase in which they bowl because they both bowl at the same stages of the game as I have mentioned previously.

Bumrah and Arshdeep have never played a match together in T20Is while Avesh and Bumrah have played together.

I didn't think I was saying anything complicated but you never fail to amaze me with how dense you can be.

In baby language(the only language you might understand) Avesh and Bumrah do not have the same role. Arshdeep and Bumrah do have the same role. Understand? or are we going to another trademark Ab_fan moment?



Being called low IQ is especially insulting when it comes from someone that's known for it. Why are you on a forum made by and for people with a "low IQ mentality"? You spend a lot of time interacting with Pakistanis for someone that thinks so lowly of them. Perhaps obsession might be the reason for that. It's quite common in your countrymen.

) most Indian fans don’t have that level of analytics about Indian players . If it makes you feel better I won’t call it obsession but how about the favorite word Juzbaa (passion) for Indian cricket.

Also a lot of words put together that go nowhere but congratulations on the sentence construction.

 

[Ahmed216]

Well India did top the group and didn’t need a back door entry for the knockouts . Yes we played badly and were mediocre but the standards in cricket are low that we are still the top 2 or maybe 3 team in all formats. I think you are getting carried away here.

Minnow bashers usually do top the group. That makes the gullible fans believe their team can go all the way but then a reality check is delivered the next game after the group stage. In this World Cup it was hammering to be remembered for ages.
I am not getting carried away I have seen the bowl in the tournament.
At least Pak can boast of being the best bowling side.

 

[Hextro]

) most Indian fans don’t have that level of analytics about Indian players . If it makes you feel better I won’t call it obsession but how about the favorite word Juzbaa (passion) for Indian cricket.

Also a lot of words put together that go nowhere but congratulations on the sentence construction.

You should have this level of analytics about every top team's best players considering the amount of time you spend consuming cricket. It's not like I've written something that's hard to understand. It's basic stuff.

 

[Local.Dada]

Minnow bashers usually do top the group. That makes the gullible fans believe their team can go all the way but then a reality check is delivered the next game after the group stage. In this World Cup it was hammering to be remembered for ages.
I am not getting carried away I have seen the bowl in the tournament.
At least Pak can boast of being the best bowling side.

Good to know that losing to Zimbabwe is no big deal but losing in semis after topping the group is the end of the world.

anyway you have earned it and probably too happy so will revisit once you cool down and bring back rationality.

 

[Local.Dada]

You should have this level of analytics about every top team's best players considering the amount of time you spend consuming cricket. It's not like I've written something that's hard to understand. It's basic stuff.

What you have written is very ordinary analysis and school boy stuff that didn’t deserve a response. I didn’t want to be direct and rude so was being respectful.

Firstly Arshdeep wasn’t brought to fill any role. India was looking for a left armer for a very long time. It was between Arshdeep and Khaleel and Arshdeep had a better IPL and grabbed chances in bilaterals with both hands. You can’t drop a performer just because he looks average to some random fans.

Shami was brought in to replace Bumrah for his experience. Personally I would have preferred Siraj. In fact me and most fans wanted Shami, Arshdeep and Siraj.

Rest of the post is all fluff that goes nowhere. It is as simple as that.

Yes India lost in semis, not the end of the world. Sure it is disappointing and hurts but not the first time it happened and life goes on. Nothing will change so as they say calm your wits

 

[Hextro]

What you have written is very ordinary analysis and school boy stuff that didn’t deserve a response. I didn’t want to be direct and rude so was being respectful.

Let's take a look at your expert-level analysis.

Firstly Arshdeep wasn’t brought to fill any role. India was looking for a left armer for a very long time. It was between Arshdeep and Khaleel and Arshdeep had a better IPL and grabbed chances in bilaterals with both hands. You can’t drop a performer just because he looks average to some random fans.

Shami was brought in to replace Bumrah for his experience. Personally I would have preferred Siraj. In fact me and most fans wanted Shami, Arshdeep and Siraj.

Shami who bowls the 3rd or last over of the powerplay was brought in to replace a guy that bowls the 2nd and 3rd over. Expert-level analysis right here.

The guy that bowls the same overs as Bumrah at the same stages on the innings definitely wasn't Bumrah's replacement.



Thanks for enlightening me with this groundbreaking analysis. Truly eye-opening.

I'm starting to think my earlier comment was a bit too long for you so you didn't bother reading it before replying.

Yes India lost in semis, not the end of the world. Sure it is disappointing and hurts but not the first time it happened and life goes on. Nothing will change so as they say calm your wits

No need to get all emotional. The purpose of This forum is to discuss cricket, which we are doing. Keep sharing your expert analysis so that we can learn a thing or two about the thought process of Ind cricket fans.

 

[FearlessRoar]

This statement by Kapil Dev fits India based on their performances in knockout games since 2014.

 

[JaDed]

Kapil was mighty in KO games 1983 -85 but blew up in 87 with the bat

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kapil was mighty in KO games 1983 -85 but blew up in 87 with the bat

That was proper choke job. Some of the matches India lost post 2013 are not really choke jobs. It was India's team structure that did not allow them to win from such situations. Bowlers can't bat. Batsmen can't bowl. So they were always one batsman short. If India had batted first in each of those encounters they would have won atleast 2. In T20 we were never a good team to begin with. Also a lottery format. Losing is not choking.

 

[WengerOut]

Unfortunately i can see this continuing. Been seeing the smooth path into the KOs when everything seems rosy. Come the KOs, reality hits hard. The rigid lineup of 6 batsmen and 5 bowlers will choke as usual. Mark this post.

 

[JaDed]

That was proper choke job. Some of the matches India lost post 2013 are not really choke jobs. It was India's team structure that did not allow them to win from such situations. Bowlers can't bat. Batsmen can't bowl. So they were always one batsman short. If India had batted first in each of those encounters they would have won atleast 2. In T20 we were never a good team to begin with. Also a lottery format. Losing is not choking.

I think the worst loss for me are T20 2014 and 2019 semis.. others were definitely not chokes but these two were disappointing.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

BCCI didn’t even invite him to the final…

 

[sweep_shot]

I think the worst loss for me are T20 2014 and 2019 semis.. others were definitely not chokes but these two were disappointing.

2014 T20 wasn't that bad.

India faced a prime Sri Lanka (that had Malinga, Sanga, Mahela, Herath, Dilshan etc.).

 

[JaDed]

2014 T20 wasn't that bad.

India faced a prime Sri Lanka (that had Malinga, Sanga, Mahela, Herath, Dilshan etc.).

We had prime Kohli then but a declining Yuvi.. but these were disappointing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I wasn't invited for World Cup final: Kapil Dev

"I wasn't invited there. They didn't call me so I did not go. As simple as that. I wanted the whole '83 team to be there with me but I guess due to the fact that it's such a big event and people are so busy handling responsibilities, sometimes they forget," Kapil told ABP News.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

This is sad, Kapil is India's greatest all rounder, to some greatest cricketer of all time. He was 83 winner.

Why wasnt he invited?

 

[PakEngFan]

BCCI didn’t even invite him to the final…

He should be glad he didn't go to witness another bottle job by the team who has perfected the art.

 

[Ahmed216]

BCCI didn’t even invite him to the final…

Not a BJP cheerleader I guess

 

[Savak]

Kapil Dev is not that big in his country in comparison to Imran Khan in Pakistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Kapil Dev is not that big in his country in comparison to Imran Khan in Pakistan.

Maybe not as much as Imran who enterted politics. But surely Kapil should be in the top 3 of Indias greatest cricketers if not at no.1?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

A day after Team India was outplayed by Australia, legendary all-rounder Kapil penned a heartfelt note for Rohit on social media. Taking to Instagram after the conclusion of the ICC World Cup final in Ahmedabad, Kapil told Rohit that the entire nation is proud of his team's performance in the 50-over spectacle.

"You've played like champions boys. Keep your chin up. The trophy was the ultimate in your minds but you've emerged winners nonetheless. India is proud of you,"

Kapil wrote in his Instagram story.

 

[Savak]

Maybe not as much as Imran who enterted politics. But surely Kapil should be in the top 3 of Indias greatest cricketers if not at no.1?

Kapil ruined his legacy by dragging his career. He should have called it a day after the 1992 WC but he dragged himself on and on because he wanted to break Richard Hadlee's record. His bowling performances were nothing to speak off in the last 2 years and his deliveries were no longer carrying to the keeper. Srinath who was in his prime had to be benched to accomodate him. Once he broke Hadlee's record, the Indian selectors had to approach Kapil and give him the option to announce his retirement, Kapil wanted to play a farewell series against West Indies at home in 1994 but the selectors refused.

Kapil's reputation also took a hit in 2000 from the match fixing allegations and how he broke down like a child on tv in Karran Thappar show in 2000. Imran who has faced ten times worse pressures would never do something like that in adversity.

 

[pillionrider]

There was a claim that him not being invited had to do with his support for the wrestlers. But I'm not sure, because Dhoni without being blatant has seemed like he's a Modi supporter and yet, he too was missing.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Kapil ruined his legacy by dragging his career. He should have called it a day after the 1992 WC but he dragged himself on and on because he wanted to break Richard Hadlee's record. His bowling performances were nothing to speak off in the last 2 years and his deliveries were no longer carrying to the keeper. Srinath who was in his prime had to be benched to accomodate him. Once he broke Hadlee's record, the Indian selectors had to approach Kapil and give him the option to announce his retirement, Kapil wanted to play a farewell series against West Indies at home in 1994 but the selectors refused.

Kapil's reputation also took a hit in 2000 from the match fixing allegations and how he broke down like a child on tv in Karran Thappar show in 2000. Imran who has faced ten times worse pressures would never do something like that in adversity.

Sure he played too long but in the 80's he was a demon with both bat and ball. Fans should remember his peak not his final days.

He was never convicted of anything.

I was shocked a legend wasnt invited at the final. Sounds like a Modi political job.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

BCCI was so occupied that they overlooked inviting the captain of the 1983 World Cup-winning team to watch the final between India and Australia!