Kashmir: 27th October - Black Day

[Yatoo]

Geelani, Bar call for shutdown on Oct 27

Srinagar: Hurriyat Conference (G) chairman Syed Ali Geelani and Kashmir High Court Bar Association on Friday called for a state-wide shutdown on October 27 and appealed people to observe the day as “black day”.
In a statement, Geelani also urged people to wave black flags in “every nook and corner of the state”.
“By observing October 27 as black day, we must give a clear message to world that Kashmiris are still resisting the military occupation of India and will continue the struggle till the last occupational soldier remains on this land,” Geelani said.
He said we must deliver a strong message to world community that the people of Kashmir will accept “nothing less than freedom from India which has occupied the territory illegally”.
“68 years ago, on this day, the Indian military without any constitutional or moral justification forcibly occupied the territory of Jammu and Kashmir and since then it is involved in the worst kinds of human rights violations in the state,” he said.
“To suppress the genuine demands of the people, these occupational forces have killed more than half a million Kashmiris and subjected about 10,000 persons to custodial disappearances. More than 7000 unmarked graves came to fore in the valley where Indian forces had buried those killed in custodies,” he added.
The Hurriyat (G) chairman said that on October 27, 1947, India “usurped the basic right of Kashmiris by annexing the state against their wishes and aspirations”.
Terming the signing of the “Instrument of Accession” by the then Maharaja Hari Singh with India as “disputed, undemocratic and unauthentic”, Syed Ali Geelani said the researchers have raised numerous questions over the authenticity and legitimacy of the so-called accession documents.
“One more point vis-a-vis the ‘Instrument of Accession’ is that the Maharaja had no right to enforce his own will upon the people as he didn’t enjoy the mandate of his subjects who were already in protest against the regime,” Geelani said.
The Kashmir High Court Bar Association said that Indian troops on 27 October 1947 landed in Kashmir against the wishes of the people.
“They annexed the state on the basis of a forged and fraudulent Instrument of Accession and since then have not vacated our soil despite more than 18 resolutions of U.N. Security Council and the promises and assurances made by Indian leaders and its government,” a spokesman of the lawyers’ body said in a statement.
He said the association believes that at a time when India was trying to become a permanent member of the Security Council, it is imperative upon the world forum to first implement the UN Security Council resolutions and give the people the right of self-determination to choose about their future.
“India should aspire for becoming a permanent member of Security Council only after implementing the resolution otherwise it would be a violation of the UN Charter which enjoins upon each member state to cooperate with the UN and implement its decisions for establishing peace and order in the world and between the community nations,” the spokesman said.
The spokesman said that the association also feels that it was essential for the world body to fulfill its obligation and pressurize New Delhi to hold plebiscite in Kashmir to “avoid a nuclear warfare” between India and Pakistan.

www.kashmirreader.com/geelani-bar-call-for-shutdown-on-oct-27/

 

[Haroon786]

#FreeKashmir

 

[Raw deal]

Storm in a tea cup...

 

[hussain123]

Never fully agreed with his ideology.but he is surely the most honest leader kashmir has ever had.

 

[Yatoo]

Never fully agreed with his ideology.but he is surely the most honest leader kashmir has ever had.

Neither do i believe in his ideology. And for me most honest leader of Kashmir is Masarat Alam and Dr. Qasim Faktoo (don't believe in their ideology either )

 

[JaDed]

Never fully agreed with his ideology.but he is surely the most honest leader kashmir has ever had.

Neither do i believe in his ideology. And for me most honest leader of Kashmir is Masarat Alam and Dr. Qasim Faktoo (don't believe in their ideology either )

What is their ideology that you guys don't agree with?

 

[hussain123]

Neither do i believe in his ideology. And for me most honest leader of Kashmir is Masarat Alam and Dr. Qasim Faktoo (don't believe in their ideology either )

To be honest, they are worse.

 

[hussain123]

What is their ideology that you guys don't agree with?

Utopian islamic ideology is problem with someone like fakhtoo, masrat alam is a somebody thanks to indian media.geelani is pro Pakistan although he has changed his stance now.

 

[Yatoo]

What is their ideology that you guys don't agree with?

Principles like this :
"We cooperate on that which we agree and leave alone that which we disagree on," or "this is backbiting, and backbiting is haram,"or " refuting bid'ah/shirk divides the Ummah."

I believe in this


Nasr bin Zakariyaa (rahimahullaah) said: I heard Muhammad bin Yahyaa adh-Dhuhlee (rahimahullaah) saying, I heard Yahyaa bin Yahyaa (rahimahullaah) saying: "Defense of the Sunnah is more superior than jihaad in the path of Allaah." So I said, "A man spends his wealth, tires his body and strives (in jihaad), so is this one (still) better than him? He said, "Yes, by many times!" [Siyar A'laamun-Nubalaa` (10/518) of adh-Dhahabee]

 

[Yatoo]

To be honest, they are worse.

I said honest. They are worse than Geelani when it comes to ideology (read extremism)

 

[JaDed]

Utopian islamic ideology is problem with someone like fakhtoo, masrat alam is a somebody thanks to indian media.geelani is pro Pakistan although he has changed his stance now.

Principles like this :
"We cooperate on that which we agree and leave alone that which we disagree on," or "this is backbiting, and backbiting is haram,"or " refuting bid'ah/shirk divides the Ummah."

I believe in this


Nasr bin Zakariyaa (rahimahullaah) said: I heard Muhammad bin Yahyaa adh-Dhuhlee (rahimahullaah) saying, I heard Yahyaa bin Yahyaa (rahimahullaah) saying: "Defense of the Sunnah is more superior than jihaad in the path of Allaah." So I said, "A man spends his wealth, tires his body and strives (in jihaad), so is this one (still) better than him? He said, "Yes, by many times!" [Siyar A'laamun-Nubalaa` (10/518) of adh-Dhahabee]

Thanks but no leaders are perfect there will always be some issues, expecting ideal leaders is not possible.

 

[Yatoo]

Thanks but no leaders are perfect there will always be some issues, expecting ideal leaders is not possible.

Minor errors can be overlooked. But one cant turn a blind eye to errors in Usul (fundamentals).

 

[street cricketer]

Pragmatically speaking, I don't think India is ever going to let go of Kashmir. And its increasing influence in world affairs will only increase its political clout and its position is not going to get any weaker. Neither do I think Pakistan will let go of Azad Kashmir. No big country worth its salt, especially with as much as animosity between South Asian countries, will let go of its territories and it will maintain its stranglehold over its territories by all means. And Kashmir is just too much of strategic importance to the countries at stake. The arterial rivers in Pakistan take its origin or pass through Kashmir before entering Pakistan. And Kashmir provides an easier entry to attack India for the Chinese army, which is now hindered by the peaks. So such a strategically important location will never be let go of either by India, Pakistan or even China (China won't stop with Aksai Chin and we all know the power of Chinese occupancy - South China sea, Tibet, Uighur dispute, disputes with Taiwan, etc.). And the leaders of separatist movements will continue to get money from both India and Pakistan and will be more than happy to continue the show as it is. It is the poor people of Kashmir who are getting affected in this fight. I just hope some permanent solution is found for this LoC and the human rights abuses go down in the region. Obviously the separatist movements will never die down completely, but with less human rights abuses and more economic development in the region, it will atleast decrease such movements and will give one less reason for them to separate.

 

[hussain123]

I said honest. They are worse than Geelani when it comes to ideology (read extremism)

Firstly, fakhtoo is somone who has always been undercovers and indian state won't have mercy on him as long he tones down his rhetoric.masrat alam and his ideology would always put off our sympathizers no matter how justifiable our cause be, though I never knew much of him now before indian media kept playing him 24×7 after his release.after geelani, their is no credible leader we have that is what lndia is looking toward to.

 

[JaDed]

Minor errors can be overlooked. But one cant turn a blind eye to errors in Usul (fundamentals).

I always assumed Sharia would be the law in Kashmir if given independence.So then the right person to head Kashmir would be Mirwaiz Umar?

 

[hussain123]

Thanks but no leaders are perfect there will always be some issues, expecting ideal leaders is not possible.

Right.but they must take responsibilities too.i would say kashmiris have a better chance of gaining concessions on autonomy and related stuff if geelani is on table not mirwaiz or other indian lackeys.that is my problem with him.he is isn't willing to engage whatsoever with indian state.even if india offers freedom to kashmiris, it won't happen in a day.

 

[Yatoo]

I always assumed Sharia would be the law in Kashmir if given independence.So then the right person to head Kashmir would be Mirwaiz Umar?

In Umar's lifetime or mine, there is no way we are getting our desired independence. Umar's followers are confined to areas around Nowhatta and Jamia Masjid from where he gives sermons. Geelani is much more popular than him.
And Umar is not the right person in my eyes either.

 

[JaDed]

Right.but they must take responsibilities too.i would say kashmiris have a better chance of gaining concessions on autonomy and related stuff if geelani is on table not mirwaiz or other indian lackeys.that is my problem with him.he is isn't willing to engage whatsoever with indian state.even if india offers freedom to kashmiris, it won't happen in a day.

Indians are too emotional(including myself) to see that happening.On Geelani always felt he isn't right because there is no other way than dealing with the Indian system and working within the requirement ,would had preferred Lone before he became a BJP stooge.
Also most Kashmiri leaders have no economy planning whatsoever still remember the NDTV interview of Mr.Geelani saying India should go back and everything would be ok.

In Umar's lifetime or mine, there is no way we are getting our desired independence. Umar's followers are confined to areas around Nowhatta and Jamia Masjid from where he gives sermons. Geelani is much more popular than him.
And Umar is not the right person in my eyes either.

Kashmiri leaders like the SC leaders are fickle but tbh i have seen Tamil Nadu as a population rise within the framework eventhough a lot of their politicians desired freedom till 1965(the year sedition became an offense).
So only Kashmiri leader who accepts that there is Indian administered violence and terrorism influence from other side , becomes the CM working within the framework brings proper light to the issue and working for his awam.

IMO Indian Muslims have been a bit disappointing in this aspect the amount of media coverage that atrocities on Indian Muslim is given is never given to a Kashmiri one.

 

[hussain123]

Indians are too emotional(including myself) to see that happening.On Geelani always felt he isn't right because there is no other way than dealing with the Indian system and working within the requirement ,would had preferred Lone before he became a BJP stooge.
Also most Kashmiri leaders have no economy planning whatsoever still remember the NDTV interview of Mr.Geelani saying India should go back and everything would be ok.



Kashmiri leaders like the SC leaders are fickle but tbh i have seen Tamil Nadu as a population rise within the framework eventhough a lot of their politicians desired freedom till 1965(the year sedition became an offense).
So only Kashmiri leader who accepts that there is Indian administered violence and terrorism influence from other side , becomes the CM working within the framework brings proper light to the issue and working for his awam.

IMO Indian Muslims have been a bit disappointing in this aspect the amount of media coverage that atrocities on Indian Muslim is given is never given to a Kashmiri one.

This issue should have been done and dusted by now but tragedy is whenever the solution has been in sight, suddenly something happens which turn the engagements to scrath and you have to start it all over. In 1964, it is said nehru had given a green signal to pakistan for turning vale of kashmir in a neutral territory or a buffer state between India and pakistan.however, just when nehru and ayub khan were very close to inking a deal in kashmir, nehru died. Similar things have happened later.infact, musharaff was in principle agreeing on kashmir to be kept with india and recognised as an indian territory. I would say India too missed a chwnce back in 2004 when musharaff was offering you guys kashmir on a platter.

 

[hussain123]

*on kashmir

 

[street cricketer]

This issue should have been done and dusted by now but tragedy is whenever the solution has been in sight, suddenly something happens which turn the engagements to scrath and you have to start it all over. In 1964, it is said nehru had given a green signal to pakistan for turning vale of kashmir in a neutral territory or a buffer state between India and pakistan.however, just when nehru and ayub khan were very close to inking a deal in kashmir, nehru died. Similar things have happened later.infact, musharaff was in principle agreeing on kashmir to be kept with india and recognised as an indian territory. I would say India too missed a chwnce back in 2004 when musharaff was offering you guys kashmir on a platter.

Really? Wouldn't the Pakistani public have protested strongly against it? And what would have Pakistan gained by giving up Kashmir?

 

[JaDed]

This issue should have been done and dusted by now but tragedy is whenever the solution has been in sight, suddenly something happens which turn the engagements to scrath and you have to start it all over. In 1964, it is said nehru had given a green signal to pakistan for turning vale of kashmir in a neutral territory or a buffer state between India and pakistan.however, just when nehru and ayub khan were very close to inking a deal in kashmir, nehru died. Similar things have happened later.infact, musharaff was in principle agreeing on kashmir to be kept with india and recognised as an indian territory. I would say India too missed a chwnce back in 2004 when musharaff was offering you guys kashmir on a platter.

Too much ego to take it for free coz apparently everyone believes "it was our right to have Kashmir", but yes i do agree it has never done well with the circumstances.

 

[street cricketer]

Indians are too emotional(including myself) to see that happening.On Geelani always felt he isn't right because there is no other way than dealing with the Indian system and working within the requirement ,would had preferred Lone before he became a BJP stooge.
Also most Kashmiri leaders have no economy planning whatsoever still remember the NDTV interview of Mr.Geelani saying India should go back and everything would be ok.



Kashmiri leaders like the SC leaders are fickle but tbh i have seen Tamil Nadu as a population rise within the framework eventhough a lot of their politicians desired freedom till 1965(the year sedition became an offense).
So only Kashmiri leader who accepts that there is Indian administered violence and terrorism influence from other side , becomes the CM working within the framework brings proper light to the issue and working for his awam.

IMO Indian Muslims have been a bit disappointing in this aspect the amount of media coverage that atrocities on Indian Muslim is given is never given to a Kashmiri one.

I was thinking the same too. TN has had a lot of separatist movements in the past too. And the hindi imposition only fuelled it more. But the Indian govt handled the situation well unlike Pakistan with its Urdu nationalism. And tbh many states would be more benefitted by being part of an emerging superpower economy like India rather than being separate countries. And now TN has developed rather well and is the 2nd highest contributer for the Indian economy only next to Maharashtra (higher than Maharashtra on a per capita basis). Also tamilians are as much Indians as anyone. Similarly I think it would be better if India and Pakistan can agree to make the LoC as the permanent border instead of wasting huge resources over it. And the valuable money can be invested in improving the economy and infrastructure of the J & K state, which will lessen the need for separatism with each passing generations.

 

[hussain123]

Really? Wouldn't the Pakistani public have protested strongly against it? And what would have Pakistan gained by giving up Kashmir?

Musharaff was agreeing on loc to be recognized as an international border by both the countries.only things that would change was, 1.there would be free movement of goods and services between both sides of kashmir, 2.some self governance restored, 3.phased out demilitarisation in kashmir and some other piecemeal measures.

 

[street cricketer]

Musharaff was agreeing on loc to be recognized as an international border by both the countries.only things that would change was, 1.there would be free movement of goods and services between both sides of kashmir, 2.some self governance restored, 3.phased out demilitarisation in kashmir and some other piecemeal measures.

Would have been fantastic had it happened.

 

[hussain123]

Musharaff was agreeing on loc to be recognized as an international border by both the countries.only things that would change was, 1.there would be free movement of goods and services between both sides of kashmir, 2.some self governance restored, 3.phased out demilitarisation in kashmir and some other piecemeal measures.

*including free movement of ppl

 

[Raw deal]

I was thinking the same too. TN has had a lot of separatist movements in the past too. And the hindi imposition only fuelled it more. But the Indian govt handled the situation well unlike Pakistan with its Urdu nationalism. And tbh many states would be more benefitted by being part of an emerging superpower economy like India rather than being separate countries. And now TN has developed rather well and is the 2nd highest contributer for the Indian economy only next to Maharashtra (higher than Maharashtra on a per capita basis). Also tamilians are as much Indians as anyone. Similarly I think it would be better if India and Pakistan can agree to make the LoC as the permanent border instead of wasting huge resources over it. And the valuable money can be invested in improving the economy and infrastructure of the J & K state, which will lessen the need for separatism with each passing generations.

Don't agree one percent with this post. Tamil Nadu is always a part of India because of majority Hindu population. So, the integration was smooth and I don't see any major conflict unlike what happened / happening in Kashmir. It would take at least another 200 years for Kashmiris to feel that they are Indians.

 

[street cricketer]

Don't agree one percent with this post. Tamil Nadu is always a part of India because of majority Hindu population. So, the integration was smooth and I don't see any major conflict unlike what happened / happening in Kashmir. It would take at least another 200 years for Kashmiris to feel that they are Indians.

I agree, there were never major secessionist movements in Tamil Nadu like in Kashmir and there were never violent struggles. But it still happened nonetheless between 1940s till 1960s, by a few parties like the Justice party, DMK, etc. But these demands were later dropped in the 60s when the DMK realised after its sound defeat in the elections that there was no support by the public in favour of the secessionist movements. My point was that increasing economic development of the region would lessen the demand for a separate nation (like the Ireland case). Yes, there would be still movements. But by making the LoC as the permanent border and by maintaining peace within the region will gradually lessen the separatist movements with each passing generations imo. Also I think there is no way countries like India, Pakistan and China letting go of Kashmir, Balochistan and Tibet, etc.

 

[hussain123]

I agree, there were never major secessionist movements in Tamil Nadu like in Kashmir and there were never violent struggles. But it still happened nonetheless between 1940s till 1960s, by a few parties like the Justice party, DMK, etc. But these demands were later dropped in the 60s when the DMK realised after its sound defeat in the elections that there was no support by the public in favour of the secessionist movements. My point was that increasing economic development of the region would lessen the demand for a separate nation (like the Ireland case). Yes, there would be still movements. But by making the LoC as the permanent border and by maintaining peace within the region will gradually lessen the separatist movements with each passing generations imo. Also I think there is no way countries like India, Pakistan and China letting go of Kashmir, Balochistan and Tibet, etc.

Difference between kashmir, tibet, balochistan etc is of international significance and UN recognition.also kashmir is a recognised dispute between india and Pakistan by un and other world powers.so they are various dimensions to it if you compare kashmir with other disputes.i know you would say un resolutions are irrelevant in contemporary context, however atleast their is some international recognition to it if not much.economic packages and other such measures would buy India sometime but until a political resolution is worked out,groundlrealities would never change.

 

[niishaa]

Don't agree one percent with this post. Tamil Nadu is always a part of India because of majority Hindu population. So, the integration was smooth and I don't see any major conflict unlike what happened / happening in Kashmir. It would take at least another 200 years for Kashmiris to feel that they are Indians.

I second that! There was never a mass movement for seperation in tamil nadu. About kashmiri's feeling they are indians that would depend on how we handle things now and i don't see anything positive since BJP came to power

 

[niishaa]

I agree, there were never major secessionist movements in Tamil Nadu like in Kashmir and there were never violent struggles. But it still happened nonetheless between 1940s till 1960s, by a few parties like the Justice party, DMK, etc. But these demands were later dropped in the 60s when the DMK realised after its sound defeat in the elections that there was no support by the public in favour of the secessionist movements. My point was that increasing economic development of the region would lessen the demand for a separate nation (like the Ireland case). Yes, there would be still movements. But by making the LoC as the permanent border and by maintaining peace within the region will gradually lessen the separatist movements with each passing generations imo. Also I think there is no way countries like India, Pakistan and China letting go of Kashmir, Balochistan and Tibet, etc.

What economic activity can happen in kashmir other than tourism? Are they any other resources and capabilities etc? Also when militancy started was kashmir having economic problems

 

[JaDed]

I agree, there were never major secessionist movements in Tamil Nadu like in Kashmir and there were never violent struggles. But it still happened nonetheless between 1940s till 1960s, by a few parties like the Justice party, DMK, etc. But these demands were later dropped in the 60s when the DMK realised after its sound defeat in the elections that there was no support by the public in favour of the secessionist movements. My point was that increasing economic development of the region would lessen the demand for a separate nation (like the Ireland case). Yes, there would be still movements. But by making the LoC as the permanent border and by maintaining peace within the region will gradually lessen the separatist movements with each passing generations imo. Also I think there is no way countries like India, Pakistan and China letting go of Kashmir, Balochistan and Tibet, etc.

There are lot of issues with the reason given for one DMK was in power when they gave up the demand for a separate country because the sedition law was passed and the then head Annaidurai gave it up.Plus TN wasn't promised autonomy as well and we have kept most of our promises to TN.

Second Kashmir is more of a religious issue imho than a regional issue(Like Baluchistan,Tibet,TN) as the majority feels closer to Pakistan,only recently Shias are not in favor of Pakistan.

 

[street cricketer]

What economic activity can happen in kashmir other than tourism? Are they any other resources and capabilities etc? Also when militancy started was kashmir having economic problems

I was talking about infrastructure development in the state. Firstly we need to have a govt (on both sides of the border) which need to find an amicable solution for the dispute. A better solution will be making the LoC border as permanent and other directives as stated by hussain in his post about Musharaff above. Then we can gradually demilitarise the border provided there is less militancy. And more importantly, the human rights abuses must decline. It is very much decreased compared to what was before, but still there are some cases persisting which will only make the general kashmiri public more hostile towards India. And with increasing infrastructural and other developments in education and health, the separatist movements will have no reason to carry on. But all this is possible only if both the govts manage to find a permanent solution for the loc.

 

[hussain123]

What economic activity can happen in kashmir other than tourism? Are they any other resources and capabilities etc? Also when militancy started was kashmir having economic problems

I would say even if tourism sector is properly tapped, it is has potential to make jandk economy self sufficient.however, if we add hydroelectric power, horticulture, sericulture, dry fruit industry, carpet industry, knowledge based industries (biotechnology etc).all these avenues make kashmir economy too duversified and too big to fail even if left alone.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Musharraf's points were better than this impasse and we could have gone on to bigger and better things but now

 

[hussain123]

Musharraf's points were better than this impasse and we could have gone on to bigger and better things but now

As a kashmiri I would say the reason why musharaffs four point formula never made a headway was that the kashmiri leadership were never entirely on board other the waiting game played from indian side.i do think think there were loopholes in his approach to kashmir.some autonomy was present earlier too but kashmir has always been run at the diktats of indian govt so asking for some more self governsnce would hardly have chsnged the ground realities when indian agencies are literally toying with the political scene in kashmir.secondly, he called out for phased withdrawal of armed forces, it isn't clear whether it was a complete withdrawal or partial.said that, india did miss a golden chance of striking a deal with musharff.

 

[Slog]

I second that! There was never a mass movement for seperation in tamil nadu. About kashmiri's feeling they are indians that would depend on how we handle things now and i don't see anything positive since BJP came to power

If im not wrong you mentioned once that you are from Goa.

Was there a seperatist movement there after the Indian annexation. A proper movement maybe hard due to size but was/is there resentment at Indian rule? In Pakistan theres a small Goan community who were escaped Goa after the Indian annexation and settled in Karachi. Most are white Christians of Portugese descent.

 

[niishaa]

If im not wrong you mentioned once that you are from Goa.

Was there a seperatist movement there after the Indian annexation. A proper movement maybe hard due to size but was/is there resentment at Indian rule? In Pakistan theres a small Goan community who were escaped Goa after the Indian annexation and settled in Karachi. Most are white Christians of Portugese descent.

No there never was or is any resentment against India rule in his we are Indians thru and thru .even tamilnadu thing is exaggerated

 

[Slog]

No there never was or is any resentment against India rule in his we are Indians thru and thru .even tamilnadu thing is exaggerated

hmm. Theres a community of Goans who migrated to Pakistan after Indian army action.

 

[niishaa]

hmm. Theres a community of Goans who migrated to Pakistan after Indian army action.

There were people/community who owed allegiance to portugal. They were small in number and majority wanted india.

 

[Slog]

There were people/community who owed allegiance to portugal. They were small in number and majority wanted india.

are there portugese descent people (pure, not mixed) remaining in Goa in large numbers now?

 

[Raw deal]

Black day observed in POK as well..
http://www.india.com/stream/pakista...inst-pakistan-intensifies-watch-video-655680/

 

[Slog]

Black day observed in POK as well..
http://www.india.com/stream/pakista...inst-pakistan-intensifies-watch-video-655680/

the video is old one though.

 

[JaDed]

Apparently its called Infantry day in India.

 

[Raw deal]

the video is old one though.

yep. 5 days old as they observed black day on 22nd ..

 

[niishaa]

are there portugese descent people (pure, not mixed) remaining in Goa in large numbers now?

I don't think so not in in large numbers. But there are few. These days there seem to be lot of foreigners who have made goa their home. Tourists who come and then stay back.

 

[JaDed]

I don't think so not in in large numbers. But there are few. These days there seem to be lot of foreigners who have made goa their home. Tourists who come and then stay back.

do you speak konkani?

 

[niishaa]

do you speak konkani?

Yes

 

[JaDed]

Yes

Nice ,amazing language sadly not known well across the country.I guess Illeana is from that area as well.

 

[Slog]

I don't think so not in in large numbers. But there are few. These days there seem to be lot of foreigners who have made goa their home. Tourists who come and then stay back.

interesting thanks.

I often wonder why a small community of Portugese Goan Christians came to Karachi though. Ofocurse its great to have them and they def did not face much discrimination due to their economic status which is good but it was wierd to move to a declared Islamic state when they had the option to move to Portugal from what I have been told. I know a lot of them but not well enough to ask this question because it is a sensitive question to ask and dont want it to be misinterpreted wrongly.

 

[niishaa]

Nice ,amazing language sadly not known well across the country.I guess Illeana is from that area as well.

Yup. Most people don't know. I am not very fluent in it though myself. Yes Ilena is from GOA.

 

[niishaa]

interesting thanks.

I often wonder why a small community of Portugese Goan Christians came to Karachi though. Ofocurse its great to have them and they def did not face much discrimination due to their economic status which is good but it was wierd to move to a declared Islamic state when they had the option to move to Portugal from what I have been told. I know a lot of them but not well enough to ask this question because it is a sensitive question to ask and dont want it to be misinterpreted wrongly.

Neither do i know the reason. They were considered traitors by majority of the goan community that much i know. But u can still ask i think. it is a very valid question though.

 

[JaDed]

Yup. Most people don't know. I am not very fluent in it though myself. Yes Ilena is from GOA.

Ah i wish there was more awareness regarding the language most Goans from what i have seen speak English hope they don't lose their touch on the language.

 

[niishaa]

Ah i wish there was more awareness regarding the language most Goans from what i have seen speak English hope they don't lose their touch on the language.

Thanks. There are too many languages in india to begin with. Does not make difference to me if people don't know about it. Also it does not help that Konkanis in mangalore have variations in their script likewise in maharashtra people speak it little differently and in goa itself it is spoken differently. English is like my mother tongue.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Thanks. There are too many languages in india to begin with. Does not make difference to me if people don't know about it. Also it does not help that Konkanis in mangalore have variations in their script likewise in maharashtra people speak it little differently and in goa itself it is spoken differently. English is like my mother tongue.

Also the Christians speak a different konkani compared to the GSB's and other Hindus.

 

[gani999]

I don't think so not in in large numbers. But there are few. These days there seem to be lot of foreigners who have made goa their home. Tourists who come and then stay back.

I believe there are still a very large number of Indo-Portugese in Goa. Surnames like Alemao, D'souza, Fernandez, Goncalves, Pinto etc are very common in Goa even today.

 

[Raw deal]

I believe there are still a very large number of Indo-Portugese in Goa. Surnames like Alemao, D'souza, Fernandez, Goncalves, Pinto etc are very common in Goa even today.

most of them are converts. One guy I met in goa claimed Portuguese ancestry. I told him he looked like an Indian. He took objection to it and didn't speak to me after that.. )

 

[Bashira_taeli]

yep. 5 days old as they observed black day on 22nd ..

5 days old and with 5 people in it. Btw can you read whats written on the banner?

 

[adit_sh]

Musharaff was agreeing on loc to be recognized as an international border by both the countries.only things that would change was, 1.there would be free movement of goods and services between both sides of kashmir, 2.some self governance restored, 3.phased out demilitarisation in kashmir and some other piecemeal measures.

I think Advani Spoiled it. I read somewhere that he started talking about Dawood and others. There was a great chance for ABV to solve this issue and make Loc as an international border. His colleagues spilled the golden chance. Free border for full Kashmir may have been the solution but not sure if it was easy to implement.

 

[Raw deal]

5 days old and with 5 people in it. Btw can you read whats written on the banner?

as opposite to no rally in Indian Kashmir. No, I don't know what's written on the banner. Why don't you tell us?

 

[gani999]

most of them are converts. One guy I met in goa claimed Portuguese ancestry. I told him he looked like an Indian. He took objection to it and didn't speak to me after that.. )

Converts usually do not adopt christian family names. They change their Hindu surnames to Christian ones while keeping their original family names.

The guy you met must have had a distant Portugeese ancestor whose descendants intermarried with Indians over several generations. There are many such people in India.

 

[Slog]

Converts usually do not adopt christian family names. They change their Hindu surnames to Christian ones while keeping their original family names.

The guy you met must have had a distant Portugeese ancestor whose descendants intermarried with Indians over several generations. There are many such people in India.

How come m Indian Christians in other states have names like Aaron, Francis, Davidson, Thomas. (these are actual last names of Indians I know)

 

[Abhilash93]

How come m Indian Christians in other states have names like Aaron, Francis, Davidson, Thomas. (these are actual last names of Indians I know)

Some are Anglo-Indians like Binny.

 

[Abhilash93]

Some are Anglo-Indians like Binny.

Russell Peters is Anglo-Indian too.

 

[gani999]

How come m Indian Christians in other states have names like Aaron, Francis, Davidson, Thomas. (these are actual last names of Indians I know)

Those are either anglo-Indians or converted christians who have acquired such names through marriage.

Most converted christians in India have mixed names. For example, some famous ones are Malcolm Adiseshaiah, Paul Veerasamy, Arthur Lall, Russell Premkumar Arnold, Padinjarethakal Cherian Alexander, Varun Aaron etc.

Two good friends of mine in school had names like George Reddy and Trenton Pugazhendi.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Russell Peters is Anglo-Indian too.

Really? Doesn't look anglo indian.

Btw, why black day? Someone becoming an Indian should be a cause for celebration.

 

[Itachi]

Difference between kashmir, tibet, balochistan etc is of international significance and UN recognition.also kashmir is a recognised dispute between india and Pakistan by un and other world powers.so they are various dimensions to it if you compare kashmir with other disputes.i know you would say un resolutions are irrelevant in contemporary context, however atleast their is some international recognition to it if not much.economic packages and other such measures would buy India sometime but until a political resolution is worked out,groundlrealities would never change.

UN shifted focus from kashmir. It isn't in their agenda now if i recollect correctly.

 

[Slog]

UN shifted focus from kashmir. It isn't in their agenda now if i recollect correctly.

Officially still calls it a disputed area

 

[Adijazz1706]

The UN isn't gonna do anything. Look at Palestine for an example

 

[adit_sh]

Officially still calls it a disputed area

I was under the same impression but Why this page says that Kashmir is out of disputed list in 2010 ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_47

Jammu and Kashmir is out of UN disputed territories list

In Nov 2010 the United Nations has removed Jammu and Kashmir from its list of disputed territories.[23][24][25][26]
In a major setback to Pakistan’s efforts to internationalise the Kashmir issue, the United Nations has excluded Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) from its list of unresolved international disputes under the observation of the UN Security Council (UNSC). Pakistan's acting envoy in the UN, Amjad Hussain Sial, has lodged a strong protest, while Indian authorities welcomed the decision.

 

[Slog]

I was under the same impression but Why this page says that Kashmir is out of disputed list in 2010 ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_47

Jammu and Kashmir is out of UN disputed territories list

In Nov 2010 the United Nations has removed Jammu and Kashmir from its list of disputed territories.[23][24][25][26]
In a major setback to Pakistan’s efforts to internationalise the Kashmir issue, the United Nations has excluded Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) from its list of unresolved international disputes under the observation of the UN Security Council (UNSC). Pakistan's acting envoy in the UN, Amjad Hussain Sial, has lodged a strong protest, while Indian authorities welcomed the decision.

it means it not an active case for UN. Doesnt mean its not disputed. If you notice it is only Indian sources making this claim

But in any UN map or document Kashmir is still shown as disputed area.

 

[adit_sh]

it means it not an active case for UN. Doesnt mean its not disputed. If you notice it is only Indian sources making this claim

But in any UN map or document Kashmir is still shown as disputed area.

That is possibly because the map needs to be redrawn only if both the countries agrees on boundary for Loc or whatever. But as per Wiki UN SC 47 they clearly states that it is out of disputed list means they will not be part of agenda in any of the future SC gatherings. Many Pakistani daily also quotes this but I am unable to get actual UN website on this issue where it is written clearly.

 

[enkidu_]

Kashmir Black Day observed in Tehran

Seventy years ago, the Indian army landed in the Himalayan valley of Kashmir, giving rise to one of the world's deadliest disputes. Every year on October 27, the people of that region take to streets to protest the decades-long Indian military occupation.

The week long run up to the Kashmir Black Day comprised of lectures, telecasting and screening of a documentary, articles and leaflets in newspapers, messages through banners and billboards, in Tehran, Mashhad, Zahidan and Qom in which atrocities against people of Jammu & Kashmir were condemned.

A seminar on Kashmir titled “Kashmir (Iran-e-Saghir) Cultural and Literary Relations” was held on 23rd October at the Tehran University in which scholars and academicians highlighted the ongoing struggle of Kashmiris in Indian occupied Jammu & Kashmir.

Special articles and leaflets were published by Iranian print media in Persian dailies Khorasan and Jamhori Islami, and English daily Iran News, to remind Iranian masses about struggle of Kashmiris for freedom and peace.

An hour and twenty minutes long documentary titled “Look beyond the canvas”, produced by Mohsen Bramahani, highlighting the sufferings of Kashmiris in J&K was aired nationwide by an Iranian TV channel on 24th October in collaboration with Tasneem News agency, Iran.

The documentary was also screened for public on 27th October which was attended by a large number of Iranian scholars, academicians, students, media personnel and diplomats.

On 26-27 October, large banners and billboards displaying messages of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei supporting people of Jammu & Kashmir were installed at Tehran metro stations and the capital’s major highways.

The Iranian nation also reiterated their support for the people of Jammu & Kashmir and hope that the people of J&K will have the freedom to determine their own destiny and future.

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/429039/Kashmir-Black-Day-observed-in-Tehran

 

[PakLFC]

Now India and her people will call Iran terrorist supporters as well.

 

[Pakistanian]

Iran always been pro-kashmir, they just allying with india for economic reasons but couldn't care less about them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Now India and her people will call Iran terrorist supporters as well.

No they won't, they'll probably look the other way on this one and let it pass quietly.

 

[slipcatch]

Where are those supporters of right wing radicalized extremists nationalists who parade around parroting “the world doesn’t care about Kashmir narrative, it’s only Indian narrative that the world care about” ?

Too embarrass to show up?

 

[PakLFC]

If the world did not care about Kashmir it would not be discussed at the UN so much.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak must speak to Iran about Chahbahar port. We must tell the Iranians to work with us on Gwadar as well as Chahbahar.

 

[Napa]

Why does it matter what a nation ruled by religious fundamentalist, heavily sanctioned, riven by periodic bouts of public dissent in the form of street riots, on the verge of bankruptcy matter?