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Lack of penetration by the Pakistan new ball bowlers is very disturbing

Savak

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If you don't get wickets up front you will not win games. This is not the UAE where you can mask your new ball bowling problems by opening the bowling with Imad. Barring that spell of 3 wickets by Shaheen. I cannot remember the last time a Pakistani bowler consistently got wickets up front with a brand new white ball cherry

Amir's selection and non-stop chances is ridiculous now and even more so the fact that he has been preferred, fast tracked whereas the bowlers who served Pakistan Cricket in the UAE from 2010 till 2015 have been completely ignored, side tracked.

Question Marks need to be asked from Azhar Mahmood as to what has he really done with the bowlers. We lost the NZ series in NZ due to our unpenetrative new ball bowling and our bowlers look pathetic here in SA as well.
 
It's unacceptable. One thing we can try from now on is give Hasan a few overs upfront with the new ball.
 
What do you expect when you give the new ball to a guy that can’t buy an ODI wicket to save his life, of late?
 
Somebody has to answer for the poor seam positions of our new ball bowlers. Azhar Mehmood what are you doing?!?!
 
You know if Pakistan has scored 317/6 it's a real flat one!
 
Totally agree with [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION]. Rubbish bowling attack I mean even rana naved had better penetration than the current crop and he was okish bowler himself. We need a complete overhaul after we get knocked out of the group stages in the world cup
 
Flat wicket. What did steyn and rabada do with new ball vs imam and fakhar?
 
Except for one over, Amit kept doling out back of the length crap. Even Sarfraz was urging him to bowl full. It is a mental issue. He does not want to get hit. He seems to have lost the ability to bring the ball back in with the white ball consistently.
 
about as good as south africa in this game.

The SA bowlers aren't too bothered about that. When there isn't too much swing on offer they just depend upon their pace and bounce instead of trying too hard for swing. Pakistani bowlers don't have that luxury, they are slower and shorter and can't exploit the pitch like that. Do you think Trent Boult would bowl like our bowlers? He would pitch it up with that perfect seam position and look to get as much swing as he can even if it risks a few runs, exactly like he did in the desert. An Amir who can't swing the new ball is quite pointless. And it's been the same thing throughout the series, apart from Hassan others haven't swung it.
 
Flat wicket. What did steyn and rabada do with new ball vs imam and fakhar?

Your talking rubbish now what [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] is trying to say is that the current pakistan attack has been flat for quite a while now and all the bowlers have regressed massively. Steyn and rabada were bowling in excess speeds of 145+ consistently and out bowlers were rocking up at 135 with no guile swing speed or brains. Out batting was pedestrian also considering it was a flat pitch imam being the main culprit
 
Flat wicket. What did steyn and rabada do with new ball vs imam and fakhar?

It was a flat wicket but Amir should not bowl with the new ball.

Swing happens in the air, pitch doesn't factor into it. Rabada and Steyn have other weapons, they can abandon looking for swing when they feel they will be more effective without it. Someone like Amir doesn't have their pace and bounce, he needs to swing the ball and get wickets up front.

Also when we bowled there were overcast conditions. Perfect for swing bowling!
 
The SA bowlers aren't too bothered about that. When there isn't too much swing on offer they just depend upon their pace and bounce instead of trying too hard for swing. Pakistani bowlers don't have that luxury, they are slower and shorter and can't exploit the pitch like that. Do you think Trent Boult would bowl like our bowlers? He would pitch it up with that perfect seam position and look to get as much swing as he can even if it risks a few runs, exactly like he did in the desert. An Amir who can't swing the new ball is quite pointless. And it's been the same thing throughout the series, apart from Hassan others haven't swung it.

You’d think South Africa didn’t just concede 300 runs
 
I have given up on our Fast bowlers swinging with the new ball or getting wickets.

Either we try Hasan/Shaheen or Shaheen/Shinwari.
Or we go back to Imad/Hafeez opening the bowling. This puts us in a very bad situation as a bowling unit. Looking at the seam position of our Seamers is just embarrassing. Someone please learn from Abbas how to have a perfect Seam position.
 
Swing happens in the air, pitch doesn't factor into it. Rabada and Steyn have other weapons, they can abandon looking for swing when they feel they will be more effective without it. Someone like Amir doesn't have their pace and bounce, he needs to swing the ball and get wickets up front.

Also when we bowled there were overcast conditions. Perfect for swing bowling!

Totally agree our bowlers have sadly become cannon fodder. Even bangladesh and Afghanistan have a better seam attack than us which is really sad to see and you will witness this in the world cup.
 
This is a thread that has needed to be made for some time. It's not only white ball cricket but in Tests where our new ball bowlers just don't have the control or penetration of the top sides.

In the 2016 England tour, Alastair Cook was getting off to flyers every time. In the 2016 Australia tour, we were toothless with the new Kookaburra.

This is partly due to playing so much cricket in UAE, we generally look to bowl back of a length and wait until the ball gets old and starts reversing. Hell, in UAE LOIs we often start with Imad and don't bother with a pacer !
 
Can we please stop saying our bowling attack is the best in the world? When such threads were made I did say wait a few series before making such judgements.

Australia, India, and SA first choice attack are ahead of our attack.
 
You’d think South Africa didn’t just concede 300 runs

What does that have to do with swinging the ball?

Their alternate tactics with the new ball got them Fakhar's wicket and almost had Babar(dropped on 13) and kept the RR down.

They conceded 300 because they dropped Babar on 13(scored 69), Imam on 53(scored 101), Hafeez on 8(scored 53), Imad on 15(scored 43). And we smashed Shamsi, RR Hendricks and Phehlukwayo- 2 spinners and a medium pacer who bowls in the mid overs.

Also our bowlers had overcast conditions to work with. Why wouldn't you at least try to pitch it up and swing it? Hassan got some swing I think and he took a wicket with the newish ball.
 
If you don't get wickets up front you will not win games. This is not the UAE where you can mask your new ball bowling problems by opening the bowling with Imad. Barring that spell of 3 wickets by Shaheen. I cannot remember the last time a Pakistani bowler consistently got wickets up front with a brand new white ball cherry

Amir's selection and non-stop chances is ridiculous now and even more so the fact that he has been preferred, fast tracked whereas the bowlers who served Pakistan Cricket in the UAE from 2010 till 2015
have been completely ignored, side tracked.

Question Marks need to be asked from Azhar Mahmood as to what has he really done with the bowlers. We lost the NZ series in NZ due to our unpenetrative new ball bowling and our bowlers look pathetic here in SA as well.

Amir after playing close to 50 ODI'S has just got one 4fer..
 
I wouldn't blame the bowling attack on a excellent batting wicket. Blame Imam for his selfish ton - the lowest SR of all batsmen who scored 30+ runs.

A decent side would have scored 350+ on such wicket. Had Imam finished 105-110 SR, Pakistan would have got there.
 
You can't solely blame the new ball pacers because it was a flat track with barely any swing.

What Pakistan need is a phaasstt bowler and a genuine spinner in the squad.
 
You know if Pakistan has scored 317/6 it's a real flat one!

This is what I wrote in the match thread as well. When we post 300+ it simply has to be a road. And if one of the bowlers doesn’t have a freakish spell then we have not much to come up with.
 
What are the alternatives?

Junaid and Abbas? Could try them against Eng/Aus but even they are no guarantee.

The bowling coach needs to work on their line and length as they leak runs every over blowing away any pressure. That's the worst issue right now.
 
You know if Pakistan has scored 317/6 it's a real flat one!

This.

I really don't know if many folks here have much cricket knowledge and iQ.

Or have ever played cricket.
 
rain didnt help with wetness but it was real flat wicket so no blame to bowlers
 
This is what I wrote in the match thread as well. When we post 300+ it simply has to be a road. And if one of the bowlers doesn’t have a freakish spell then we have not much to come up with.

If guys like Imam, Babar are able to bat for more than 40 overs you always know others will outscore us on a very good batting track. They do not have the game to accelerate and we do not have any real bashers in the team. Today Imad saved us a bit otherwise it would have been 285 max.
 
As much as I love Amir, he is just not at the races.

Overall the shape of this Pakistani attack is so weak and one dimensional.
 
Tbh I am not too confident about the pacers performances also. If Shaheen doesn’t grab wickets then we are in trouble. Need Hasan to find his touch back desperately.
 
Pakistan always had this one bowler team would like to see off. Ajmal was doing that job for a while. Rightnow i don't think opposition is worried about any particular bowler from Pakistan. In such a scenario they have to focus on collectivlely click.
 
What good is the bowling attack if they cannot defend 317 runs? Bowlers shouldn't complain about the batsmen not giving them enough runs because that certainly was not the case today
 
This pitch was flat, but

In the last 20 ODIs,

Amir - avg 51+


Pakistan needs to give new ball to some one else.
 
After Asif Pakistan never had a good consistent new ball bowler. Its an art , Pakistan need to unearth couple of good solid new ball bowlers, not necessarily express bowlers.
 
Shane Warne would have an absolute heart attack if Amir was consistently playing for Australia and taking the new ball with the stats he has for the last 3 years.
 
I wouldn't blame the bowling attack on a excellent batting wicket. Blame Imam for his selfish ton - the lowest SR of all batsmen who scored 30+ runs.

A decent side would have scored 350+ on such wicket. Had Imam finished 105-110 SR, Pakistan would have got there.

see that's the thing, pakistan isn't a decent side.

it used to be a decent side but it's not the case anymore.

right now they are hovering above minnow status, but pakistan got lucky here because south africa are not the team they were a few years ago

we all saw what happened versus new zealand and in the asia cup
 
After seeing the recent form of Amir and Shinwari I would rather have Waqas Maqsood opening the bowling. He has decent swing with the new ball and is pretty good in the middle overs and the death overs with slow balls and yorkers.

Has been a consistent performer in domestic as well.

Amad Butt is another one who is in really good form with bowl and a good striker of the ball as well.
 
Amir is the most part. This guy doesn't have any motivation or neither he tries hard to prove himself. Its time to drop him all together unless he learns how to pitch the ball and top giving leg side balls. Shinwari is just a rubbish and no future what so ever.
 
This pitch was flat, but

In the last 20 ODIs,

Amir - avg 51+


Pakistan needs to give new ball to some one else.

Glad to see people finally realize what a farce this guy actually is... probably cost us many games with his mediocrity but always seems to go under the radar
 
I just don't understand why we can at least try Abbas. He's the only one from Pakistan I've seen since Asif or Amir early career who's actually been consistently a threat and amongst the wickets with the new ball in any format. Even while Asif wasn't great in LOI, he didn't get a chance to play with the rule change where he may have been more effective. If Abbas fails, no harm done, at least we tried. But all we're doing is recycling around the same players, hoping something will change, we need to try out all our options.
 
see that's the thing, pakistan isn't a decent side.

it used to be a decent side but it's not the case anymore.

right now they are hovering above minnow status, but pakistan got lucky here because south africa are not the team they were a few years ago

we all saw what happened versus new zealand and in the asia cup

I totally agree but that does not exempt Imam to bat so sedately on such batting friendly conditions. If only he could bat just above run a ball, Pakistan would have had enough runs.

The timing of the rain was unfortunate where it especially affected our spinners but blaming new ball bowlers when there was no swing or assistance off the pitch is not where the problems lie in this side. After all Shaheen was able to take 3 wickets at the start of SA's chase in the last game before yesterday's.
 
I totally agree but that does not exempt Imam to bat so sedately on such batting friendly conditions. If only he could bat just above run a ball, Pakistan would have had enough runs.

The timing of the rain was unfortunate where it especially affected our spinners but blaming new ball bowlers when there was no swing or assistance off the pitch is not where the problems lie in this side. After all Shaheen was able to take 3 wickets at the start of SA's chase in the last game before yesterday's.

see, we all know for a fact imam can't play at a strike rate of 100 and that's the reason others need to bat around him.

babar doesn't have to have the role of anchor anymore, it should be imam..

babar, malik, hafeez, fakhar, sarfraz, imad... all these guys need to launch from the platform imam sets for them.

wanting imam to score at a rate of 100+ is wishful thinking

bowlers/batters didn't screw us... the rain did
 
5 dropped catches made it 300. Would have been a different story otherwise.

tendulkar was dropped 4 times too, that story would have been different too

what's your point?

stop dealing with what ifs, and the shoulda, coulda, wouldas.

deal with absolutes.

like this is the first time an international side dropped catches.
 
tendulkar was dropped 4 times too, that story would have been different too

what's your point?

stop dealing with what ifs, and the shoulda, coulda, wouldas.

deal with absolutes.

like this is the first time an international side dropped catches.

Of course. But you missed the point - the SA bowling created those chances that were dropped. This thread is about the toothlessness of the frontline pace "attack" of the team that comes from the infamous "pace bowling factory".
 
Of course. But you missed the point - the SA bowling created those chances that were dropped. This thread is about the toothlessness of the frontline pace "attack" of the team that comes from the infamous "pace bowling factory".

yeah but they didn't have rain making it difficult for them.

pretty sure the match would have gone to the wire if there was no rain
 
yeah but they didn't have rain making it difficult for them.

pretty sure the match would have gone to the wire if there was no rain

That's a fair point. But there was no rain for the 1st 15 overs or so was there? if QdK didn't run himself out in classic choker fashion....
 
That's a fair point. But there was no rain for the 1st 15 overs or so was there? if QdK didn't run himself out in classic choker fashion....

you're correct there wasn't any rain but at least they were behind the DL method... the spinners were keeping it tight as well as hasan

once it rained, the dl method came into play and the game was back on, it was all advantage south africa.
 
Amir was disappointing last game. Hopefully he pulls it together in this must win game. As for Shaheen no complaints tried his best ball just wouldn't swing.
 
Which ODI team is penetrating with the new ball? It's honestly become pretty rare, the conditions don't allow for it most times.
 
See who were the bowlers in Pakistan A recently.... Laughable.... None of them are worthy to make to senior team... Rahat, waqas.... Blah.. Blah....
There is no one to replace Amir... Very bad planning... While more focus is on batting... The day is not far away when tundlers will be the front liners for pakistan....
 
Only those bowlers should be selected in Pak A who can bowl above 145 km/hr consistently.. No one else
 
Six months later and problem is still there.

We are incapable of taking wickets upfront. Only Amir has looked a threat but he gets no support from the other end.
 
Which ODI team is penetrating with the new ball? It's honestly become pretty rare, the conditions don't allow for it most times.

Oh be quiet! Hasan and wahab are the worst of all the new ball bowlers on show in this World Cup. Now obviously we can say they aren’t new ball bowlers at all but a pattern is developing. There will be a four ball or two every over in the first 10 and they will release pressure applied by amir. No other team has an attack so completely bereft of ideas or skill. Yes they pull it back in the death overs but right now we are headed for the exit as we are gifting starts. The same ball in the opposition hands and the same grounds allows the opposition to swing it around corners. Just look at how good Bangladesh are with the new ball and there’s lessons to be learnt. These guys are not speedsters or giants by any means but simple line and length bowling is mighty effective.

Now in the middle overs we are also not able to do anything special. Previously Afridi and ajmal were able to tie the opposition in knots and we could pull it back but now even that’s not happening with the likes of hafeez and Malik.
That only leaves death bowling. Actually our death bowling is not bad but as the opposition is sitting on 250/280 by the 40th over its little consolation to be taking a bunch of wickets at the death. Our weak batting cannot regularly chase 300+
 
Only those bowlers should be selected in Pak A who can bowl above 145 km/hr consistently.. No one else


Pace pe pace!! Sod pace decent line and length is what matters even at 80mph (but tall) there is no need for a 90mph spray gun. Best bowl nice tight challenging lines and let over head conditions do the tri
 
Pace pe pace!! Sod pace decent line and length is what matters even at 80mph (but tall) there is no need for a 90mph spray gun. Best bowl nice tight challenging lines and let over head conditions do the tri

In hindsight, Mo Abbas would have been a much better pick for the conditions, but he has been getting tonked on flat wickets in Dubai which leaves a poor impression. Also there would still be a question mark over what he does when shine wears off after a few overs. Aus bowler Stoinis bowls at a slower pace, but he is so clever in how he mixes it up he is given the ball at the death ahead of much quicker bowlers.
 
Other teams may not be swinging the new ball much but at least they show some semblance of presenting an upright seam and try to maintain a tight line and length. If you can do that with a tiny bit of movement then at least you can make the batsmen think and put them under pressure.

Hasan bowls a few decent balls then loses his line. His lengths were poor once again as well. Shaheen in the previous game was way too short. They are hopeless with the new ball in the World Cup so far.
 
Bowl in the corridor of uncertainty and have 2 good slip fielders.
Bet this gets you 1/2 wickets in the first 10 overs.
 
In hindsight, Mo Abbas would have been a much better pick for the conditions, but he has been getting tonked on flat wickets in Dubai which leaves a poor impression. Also there would still be a question mark over what he does when shine wears off after a few overs. Aus bowler Stoinis bowls at a slower pace, but he is so clever in how he mixes it up he is given the ball at the death ahead of much quicker bowlers.

I agree with you in part. Abbass the bowler coming at 11 is fine as he would bowl 6 overs with the new ball and the seam flattens out (after 10-15 overs) then Abbas is redundant. Contributes nothing with the bat. Even in his initial spell most batsmen know the ball is gonna come in to them rather than leave or straighten. He’s a better option than hasan Ali with the new ball but still too many question marks.
 
Bowl in the corridor of uncertainty and have 2 good slip fielders.
Bet this gets you 1/2 wickets in the first 10 overs.

Easier said than done. They can’t put more than one ball at same area. This is a typical Hassan Ali over:

1. Short and wide
2. Good ball
3. On the legs
4. Bouncer given wide
5. Wide
6. In the slot
 
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