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Large ODI totals - Time to criticise English pitches?

Bhaag Viru Bhaag

Bhaag Viru Bhaag

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Aug 20, 2013
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Have seen too many high scoring matches in England recently. Last year in the Champions Trophy too we saw how easily teams were scoring 320+. Pakistan also conceeded 400+ last time they played an ODI series against England. We have seen experts, fans and commentators criticising Indian pitches for not providing any help to bowlers. How is this different?
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Have seen too many high scoring matches in England recently. Last year in the Champions Trophy too we saw how easily teams were scoring 320+. Pakistan also conceeded 400+ last time they played an ODI series against England. We have seen experts, fans and commentators criticising Indian pitches for not providing any help to bowlers. How is this different?
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Since the match was not played in India, no one will say a word. If the match was played in India, there would be calls for banning India from hosting international cricket.
 
aim should be to produce pitches where ~300 is a winning score.

This is awful for the bowlers
 
Uff, these 'phattas' are getting very annoying tbh!
It has stagnated the rise of fast-bowling and proper fast-bowlers....
 
How many 400+ scores in Australia. Can we have some stats pls last 10 years which country has conceded 350+ most
 
Kashmirilion said:
How many 400+ scores in Australia. Can we have some stats pls last 10 years which country has conceded 350+ most
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The only 400+ scores I can recall happening in Australia during recent years was during the 2015 WC.

SAF scores 400+ twice - against Ireland and WI.

Australia scored 400+ against Afghanistan as well.
 
This specific ground [Trent Bridge] is pretty poor for bowlers. The same ground where Hales looks like the next-coming of Sehwag'esque type-batsmen, and where England smashed Pakistan. The boundaries are so uneven, it's embarrassing, tbh.

But full credit to England, because not many will be smashing their own world record by a mile and easily.
 
Rahul1 said:
Since the match was not played in India, no one will say a word. If the match was played in India, there would be calls for banning India from hosting international cricket.
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England pitches have been criticised. The issue is this is Trent Bridge again, and the same ground where England scored 444 against Pakistan. We've seen scores of 300+ been hit numerous times over the last 2-3 years, outside of England. So the problem isn't just England, it's also the rules of cricket changing and helping the batsmen more than the bowlers.
 
Time? People have been critical of these flat phattas for a while now and rightly so.
 
Lol, Pakistan would not even have been able to score 300 on these pitches. Maybe instead of criticizing the pitches, why not praise the ability of the players instead?
 
Go to one new ball and switch it from the crappy Kookaburra to the Dukes. Then we'll see some parity between bat and ball.
 
HitWicket said:
It's only really the one boundary (because of the straight edged stand) at Trent Bridge that's anything particularly abnormal.
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The whole ground is pear-shaped. So anything on the sides is a flick-six away. Idiotic tbh.
 
Aus could only muster 244 and lost by 242 runs.

Leicestershire only managed 177 in reply to India A's - 458.

Pitches are definitely to be blamed, but the batting power of England and India A seems to have played a big part too in these lopsided matches.
 
troodon said:
Aus could only muster 244 and lost by 242 runs.

Leicestershire only managed 177 in reply to India A's - 458.

Pitches are definitely to be blamed, but the batting power of England and India A seems to have played a big part too in these lopsided matches.
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Such totals effectively kill off the contest, unless you are a Graeme Smith-led South Africa. Conditions don't really matter tbh
 
troodon said:
Aus could only muster 244 and lost by 242 runs.

Leicestershire only managed 177 in reply to India A's - 458.

Pitches are definitely to be blamed, but the batting power of England and India A seems to have played a big part too in these lopsided matches.
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A top score in the circumstances should have been no more than 400 even if the bowling is club level. Trent Bridge needs to see its international status reviewed at a minimum. If India/Pakistan had put on something like this at home I guarantee there would be investigations and likely fines.
 
Don't understand why England don't play on roads making groundsmen jobs harder.
 
zn426 said:
A top score in the circumstances should have been no more than 400 even if the bowling is club level. Trent Bridge needs to see its international status reviewed at a minimum. If India/Pakistan had put on something like this at home I guarantee there would be investigations and likely fines.
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The totals are getting higher and higher, but you have to consider the batting firepower of England too.

A team of Roy/Bairstow/Hales/Morgan/Buttler/Root/Moen Ali is insane. These guys are all match winners and can smash a century at 150 S/R even in ODI's. Funny part is Root is their weakest link and even he can strike at 120 in ODI's.

Most teams have 2 or 3 such players. England has 5 of them and if you include Stokes, they are even more powerful.

England is an out and out batting team. They will keep winning as long as their batting keeps firing as a unit. But in a major tournament, one collapse in an elimination game, England bowling will not defend anything.
 
troodon said:
The totals are getting higher and higher, but you have to consider the batting firepower of England too.

A team of Roy/Bairstow/Hales/Morgan/Buttler/Root/Moen Ali is insane. These guys are all match winners and can smash a century at 150 S/R even in ODI's. Funny part is Root is their weakest link and even he can strike at 120 in ODI's.

Most teams have 2 or 3 such players. England has 5 of them and if you include Stokes, they are even more powerful.

England is an out and out batting team. They will keep winning as long as their batting keeps firing as a unit. But in a major tournament, one collapse in an elimination game, England bowling will not defend anything.
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Put them on a juicy pitch few times they will start recalling cook for odis.
 
Bakwas and ghatya pitches ..
Said in the champions trophy too that Pakistan won champions trophy mainly due to bolwing and espexially captaincy restricting teams to 230s, similar Pak bowling attack was pummled for 444 under a different captain.
 
Aman said:
Two new balls have to go.

Bring back reverse swing.
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Yep, and also create bigger boundaries. Enough of the T20-style a boundary hit every other ball. Feel for the bowlers. The rules have heavily purged bowlers with any kind of abilities. Reverse swing was the ultimate deterrent for scores of 300+. I find the current rules utterly boring.

People forget when SA beat Aus in that historic chase, the boundaries were mind-numbingly short. I can understand T20s needing to be enjoyable for the fans, but surely bowlers need to be given some leniency too.
 
No one will criticise English pitches as the criticism normally stems from that part of the world.
 
Push the ropes back, only 1 white Duke ball and get rid of the free hit nonsense . This should bring the game back in balance. But SENA countries prefer 400+ scores so don't expect anything to change.
 
How bout the theory that change the ball at 25th Over.Like they do in Tests after 90 overs.
Bringing some kind of balance between bat and ball.Otherwise the balls are getting bruised:bm
 
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troodon said:
Aus could only muster 244 and lost by 242 runs.

Leicestershire only managed 177 in reply to India A's - 458.

Pitches are definitely to be blamed, but the batting power of England and India A seems to have played a big part too in these lopsided matches.
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it dosent work that way . Chasing big totals teams tend to get out for low totals .
 
Rubbish pitches.There needs to be a fair contest between bat and ball like last years Champions Trophy.
 
Might as well have a bowling machine at both ends in ODIs these days. There's absolutely nothing for the bowlers. At least give them a bowling power play or something with no field restrictions. Don't usually feel much for bowlers but this is just sad.
 
It wasn’t always this way in England. 250 used to give you a good chance of winning, even if the full complement of 50 overs was bowled.

Clearly now everything in England is intentionally being built towards the World Cup: flat runfest pitches, the deprioritisation of County Championship and therefore Test matches, massive resources being plowed into white-ball cricket, keeping Bayliss as the head coach in spite of an awful winter season - with the ECB hoping that this level of investment and preparation will ultimately lead to England lifting the Cricket World Cup on home soil.

That’s fine, and there is patently a well thought out plan in action here, it’s just slightly melancholic to see for those of us who have been watching cricket since the last century, and certainly for English cricket fans we are used to seeing the white flannels and the shiny red cherry at the top of the list. I would love to see England win a World Cup - it’s just a bit sad.
 
The truth is that the skill levels of batsmen these days are phenomenal. Gone are the days when cricket was a sport for unfit, natural athletes. The high fitness levels of players as also insured a new dynamic to batting that is truly the skill that is being paid for handsomely these days.

There are batsmen in this world who would just not get out, score a thousand runs in Test cricket on such tracks and score 350 in 150 balls in ODI
 
James said:
It wasn’t always this way in England. 250 used to give you a good chance of winning, even if the full complement of 50 overs was bowled.

Clearly now everything in England is intentionally being built towards the World Cup: flat runfest pitches, the deprioritisation of County Championship and therefore Test matches, massive resources being plowed into white-ball cricket, keeping Bayliss as the head coach in spite of an awful winter season - with the ECB hoping that this level of investment and preparation will ultimately lead to England lifting the Cricket World Cup on home soil.

That’s fine, and there is patently a well thought out plan in action here, it’s just slightly melancholic to see for those of us who have been watching cricket since the last century, and certainly for English cricket fans we are used to seeing the white flannels and the shiny red cherry at the top of the list. I would love to see England win a World Cup - it’s just a bit sad.
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Excellent point. But you need to remember that the best teams in the world still maintain their Test cricket dominance and domestic structure when they win the 50 over world cup. Australia and India have displayed this in the past, England basically indicates that they are either one way or the other when it comes to dominating. Becoming a good ODI team comes at the expense of losing the structure in Test cricket, not sure if they are doing it the right way
 
ManFan said:
Read my lips...

England will NOT win the WC next year.
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Hmm im not so sure. I think if they had won the CT then you could expect them to become over confident and slip up somewhere. They will not repeat the same mistake of under estimating an 8th ranked side. Secondly, England need to meet India in the semis for them to not win the world cup
 
Rana said:
Hmm im not so sure. I think if they had won the CT then you could expect them to become over confident and slip up somewhere. They will not repeat the same mistake of under estimating an 8th ranked side. Secondly, England need to meet India in the semis for them to not win the world cup
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I agree with [MENTION=142702]UN talkz[/MENTION].

They might go all the way but this team is not built to win a tournament.

They will get beat as soon as a team locks them down for 20 overs. That’s how they lost to Pakistan in the SF after getting a great start.

It’s like Game 7 of the 69’ NBA Finals.

Bill Russell was on his last legs against three of the best players of his era. But he told his teammates to play a running game because that way, the more determined team and not better skilled team will win.

They won.

England is a team based on momentum and if they do not get any early on, it is very rare for them to come back.
 
Don't know why there is always crying when a high scoring game happens, why is it looked at as if it is some sort of bemari like a cancer? Did people cry and moan during bowler friendly eras of 70s. If PP existed back then someone would've started a newspaper post instead of forum post on why low totals and too many wickets being taken is ruining the game.

Just enjoy the game for what it is. I for one enjoy high totals in the shorter formats, but at the same time I know that a quality bowler will shine in any era. Australia's current attack is a joke, and that is probably a huge reason why this happened, but not the only one. Pakistan with crap like Anwar Ali also got spanked on the dead UAE pitches in similar fashion.

Sports always evolve over time, you can't have it one way for decades and decades.
 
It would be hypocritical to criticise England when we have Wanderers (altitude does contribute). Nothing wrong with the odd high scoring game though. A game is meant to be fun, is it not? However, this constant '300 is the new norm' games as crazy. Some balance is required. Limited overs has, however, been skewed for quite some time now.
 
Even the women’s teams are consistently making record breaking totals in England. Theres something definelty wrong with English pitches.
 
troodon said:
The totals are getting higher and higher, but you have to consider the batting firepower of England too.

A team of Roy/Bairstow/Hales/Morgan/Buttler/Root/Moen Ali is insane. These guys are all match winners and can smash a century at 150 S/R even in ODI's. Funny part is Root is their weakest link and even he can strike at 120 in ODI's.

Most teams have 2 or 3 such players. England has 5 of them and if you include Stokes, they are even more powerful.

England is an out and out batting team. They will keep winning as long as their batting keeps firing as a unit. But in a major tournament, one collapse in an elimination game, England bowling will not defend anything.
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Well put.

And that's exactly what happened to England in CT SF last summer against Pakistan ... batting didn't click and Pak won the match comfortably ... However, I would rather have such firepower in batting then not anyday of the week!

England does need to improve their bowling attack as its definitely vulnerable as we saw against Scotland.
 
Naim said:
Bro football fans also want to see goals . But they will never change the size of goal post . Or reduce number of defenders .
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But TB is the same size as ever, and there were eleven fielders same as usual!

If the groundsmen made a green mamba, people would complain about ECB killing the spectacle, making it too easy for bowlers etc......
 
Both Trent bridge and edgbaston for ODI games have been hugely high scoring both at domestic level and international level. Producing roads as wickets with no assistance for bowlers and all other ODI rules being geared towards the batsmen both these two venues will keep seeing 350-400 reached regularly with ease.
 
England are again proving to be hypocrites as they have been thru out their history. When WI bowlers in 1980s were bouncing, they cried and whined on how dangerous it was and put a limit on bouncers.

When two Ws ran amok with reverse swing they called it cheating but when Simon jones and co did the same they called it art.

When India was scoring all those runs they cried on how flat pitches give bowlers no chance and how these pitches are killing cricket.

But when they are scoring 300 plus for fun on these lifeless wickets, they are saying wow what stroke play and what batting talent.

Anything English do it, it is good for the game but anything they can't do it then it is killing the game this has been mantra of English cricket forever.
 
Flat pitches or not, England's batting is on a few levels above any other cricket team right now. We have to appreciate what they have managed to achieve in a short period of time, completely redefined the ODI game. England can claim to win an LOI match regardless of how their bowling and fielding performs
 
Usman Chadda said:
Flat pitches or not, England's batting is on a few levels above any other cricket team right now. We have to appreciate what they have managed to achieve in a short period of time, completely redefined the ODI game. England can claim to win an LOI match regardless of how their bowling and fielding performs
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Put these batsmen on wickets which aid swing or seam. Or on Spinning wickets you will see same batsmen come apart.

No trying to take their credit but they are just batting on ridiculous pitches.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Have seen too many high scoring matches in England recently. Last year in the Champions Trophy too we saw how easily teams were scoring 320+. Pakistan also conceeded 400+ last time they played an ODI series against England. We have seen experts, fans and commentators criticising Indian pitches for not providing any help to bowlers. How is this different?
Click to expand...



If credit has been taken for some player's selection in Tests/ODI's based on their performance in IPL...maybe it is time to criticize the negative impacts of all those 'Blaah Blaah Sixes' etc. that IPL has helped become so expected on a regular basis?

I think because of large totals in leagues like IPL etc. the home boards (including ECB) are more prone to producing these roads in ODIs as well to satisfy the needs of the spectators
 
jadaja said:
Put these batsmen on wickets which aid swing or seam. Or on Spinning wickets you will see same batsmen come apart.

No trying to take their credit but they are just batting on ridiculous pitches.
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India on these same wickets will not get anywhere near 481. England is taking full advantage of the current rules and literally bulldozing the opposition to their knees

I remember they almost chased 380 down in India as well. So they are not all bad outside England too are they?
 
Usman Chadda said:
India on these same wickets will not get anywhere near 481. England is taking full advantage of the current rules and literally bulldozing the opposition to their knees

I remember they almost chased 380 down in India as well. So they are not all bad outside England too are they?
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I never said anything about India, are India bad outside India?India is most consistent side which has done well in all major tournaments.That is not the point, point is these pitches are horrible.
 
jadaja said:
I never said anything about India, are India bad outside India?India is most consistent side which has done well in all major tournaments.That is not the point, point is these pitches are horrible.
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England has done pretty well in all major tournaments since the 2015WC. Runners up in 2016 T20WC and Semi-Finalists in the 2017 CT. My point is England's performances transcends the state of pitches in world cricket. Their top 7 is the most brutal in the history of ODIs
 
I agree that the 481 pitch was crap and the ground was puny, but lets not kids ourselves, pitches in India are flat as well. India can't go past 480 like England did, you need to bat deep to get that high score. Current England batting lineup is the greatest of all time in ODIs, they will bust a few times, but when they boom they go nuclear. Any of their top 7 batsmen can single-handedly destroy opposition bowling. This has never been seen in ODI cricket before.
 
Agree. Eng batting lineup is unreal. They are like a car with a brick on the accelerator and no brakes.

In history of ODI cricket, no team has been able to put together so many hard hitting batsmen in same XI. Totals scored must be seen in this context.
 
They are completely utilising the conditions but the pitches are generally very sporting, if there was grass most would complain; the wickets are a lot flatter now and spin comes in to thanks to the modern drainage systems. As a subcontinental team I'd be pretty satisfied, they key will be to neutralise England's powerful batting line up and it shouldn't be a problem in the KO stages of 2019 WC
 
As I said put these England batsmen on pitch which has something for bowlers and see the magic .They proved me spot on that they are so shaky on spicy wickets.
 
jadaja said:
England are again proving to be hypocrites as they have been thru out their history. When WI bowlers in 1980s were bouncing, they cried and whined on how dangerous it was and put a limit on bouncers.

When two Ws ran amok with reverse swing they called it cheating but when Simon jones and co did the same they called it art.

When India was scoring all those runs they cried on how flat pitches give bowlers no chance and how these pitches are killing cricket.

But when they are scoring 300 plus for fun on these lifeless wickets, they are saying wow what stroke play and what batting talent.

Anything English do it, it is good for the game but anything they can't do it then it is killing the game this has been mantra of English cricket forever.
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I agree listening to the English pundits I wonder what the reaction would be if the shoe was on the other foot and they were on the receiving end of a whitewash. They'll change their tune once their pop gun attack inevitably gets thrashed by a better batting lineup than this dismal Australian team.

I accept these batsmen are highly skilled, more powerful and more dynamic than ever but the bowlers get no encouragement either from the ball or the conditions whatsoever which makes for an unfair contest. Pitches should be flat for white ball cricket but to have no conventional or reverse swing with this crappy Kookaburra and with two new balls then why bother inspire kids to be a bowler ?

The best match of the series was a low scoring thriller at Manchester when every run mattered and a packed house were urging England on every ball in their chase.

If the pitches and balls aren't gonna be changed then at least ensure the matches are played in grounds of adequate dimensions. Trent Bridge is a problem especially because of how small the dimemsions are on one side.
 
Markhor said:
I agree listening to the English pundits I wonder what the reaction would be if the shoe was on the other foot and they were on the receiving end of a whitewash. They'll change their tune once their pop gun attack inevitably gets thrashed by a better batting lineup than this dismal Australian team.

I accept these batsmen are highly skilled, more powerful and more dynamic than ever but the bowlers get no encouragement either from the ball or the conditions whatsoever which makes for an unfair contest. Pitches should be flat for white ball cricket but to have no conventional or reverse swing with this crappy Kookaburra and with two new balls then why bother inspire kids to be a bowler ?

The best match of the series was a low scoring thriller at Manchester when every run mattered and a packed house were urging England on every ball in their chase.

If the pitches and balls aren't gonna be changed then at least ensure the matches are played in grounds of adequate dimensions. Trent Bridge is a problem especially because of how small the dimemsions are on one side.
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And on top there is lot of western bias in the media even within subcontinent media.
for example
Joburg odi where SA chase 434 was hailed best ever ODI but Rajkot odi a week later where Srilanka feel 3 run short chasing 412 was given this headline by local media and overseas media Disarm the bowler, kill the contest.

You are spot on the fifth match was the best match in the series , we need pitches with something to offer for bowlers others it become a boring slogfest.


I am not taking anything away from England's batting talent but pitches have been horrible in this series.

Hope ICC does not produce same pitches next world cup.
 
jadaja said:
And on top there is lot of western bias in the media even within subcontinent media.
for example
Joburg odi where SA chase 434 was hailed best ever ODI but Rajkot odi a week later where Srilanka feel 3 run short chasing 412 was given this headline by local media and overseas media Disarm the bowler, kill the contest.

You are spot on the fifth match was the best match in the series , we need pitches with something to offer for bowlers others it become a boring slogfest.


I am not taking anything away from England's batting talent but pitches have been horrible in this series.

Hope ICC does not produce same pitches next world cup.
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Where are you getting your facts from? The India-Sri Lanka match was played about 3 years after the Australia-South Africa match, not one week later.

And the Australia-South Africa match is one of the greatest of all time simply because nothing like that has happened before or since.
 
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Markhor said:
I agree listening to the English pundits I wonder what the reaction would be if the shoe was on the other foot and they were on the receiving end of a whitewash. They'll change their tune once their pop gun attack inevitably gets thrashed by a better batting lineup than this dismal Australian team.
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Well, I would say it’s the ECB’s fault for not putting the conditions in place to produce wicket-taking fast bowlers and spinners.

See the Ashes. Four medium pacers, flat offie. Results - inevitable.
 
jadaja said:
England are again proving to be hypocrites as they have been thru out their history. When WI bowlers in 1980s were bouncing, they cried and whined on how dangerous it was and put a limit on bouncers.

When two Ws ran amok with reverse swing they called it cheating but when Simon jones and co did the same they called it art.

When India was scoring all those runs they cried on how flat pitches give bowlers no chance and how these pitches are killing cricket.

But when they are scoring 300 plus for fun on these lifeless wickets, they are saying wow what stroke play and what batting talent.

Anything English do it, it is good for the game but anything they can't do it then it is killing the game this has been mantra of English cricket forever.
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Incorrect nationalistic generalisation.

“England” didn’t do that at all. The cricketers got on with the job and figured out how to fight fire with fire.

A few journos with axes to grind made some silly noises about unfair play.
 
Robert said:
Incorrect nationalistic generalisation.

“England” didn’t do that at all. The cricketers got on with the job and figured out how to fight fire with fire.

A few journos with axes to grind made some silly noises about unfair play.
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It's the typical - pinpoint nationalism > blame hypocrisy of said nationalism > when others do it... > round-up point by doubling-down on nationalistic generalisation.
 
ECB is throwing everything at next year's World Cup. They have put all their eggs in one basket - the stage is set for an Irishman to be the first English captain to finally win a World Cup. It is not a now or never type situation for England, and I don't think any excuse will stick.

Home soil and a golden generation that has learned from the experience of narrowly missing out on the World T20 2016 and the Champions Trophy 2017 at home.

I personally think England will finally do it, but if they do fail, it will be a massive blow for English cricket and they will take a lot of time to recover from the disappointment.
 
It's pathetic. South African pitches have lost all bite as well. The 2015 ODI WC is to blame, it seems. Every other board started following the Australian (and Indian) model and flat pitches became increasingly common. Let's hope this trend is reversed otherwise ODIs will truly become longer, more tedious versions of T20 cricket.
 
BUMP

Same ground and perhaps the same pitch but different bowlers and a different result against the same England team. This is how standards are raised. And Iam talking of spin bowling in ODIs. Yes it takes time but eventually better bowlers will evolve to rise to the challenge. This is how progress is achieved and standards raised. This is why it is very very important to recognize and acknowledge talent instead of belittling them all the time and Iam looking at all the usual suspects who blatantly refuse to accept that standards are better now.
 
Well there's one solution to flat pitches, small boundaries etc.

Damn good wrist spin.
 
Tusker said:
BUMP

Same ground and perhaps the same pitch but different bowlers and a different result against the same England team. This is how standards are raised. And Iam talking of spin bowling in ODIs. Yes it takes time but eventually better bowlers will evolve to rise to the challenge. This is how progress is achieved and standards raised. This is why it is very very important to recognize and acknowledge talent instead of belittling them all the time and Iam looking at all the usual suspects who blatantly refuse to accept that standards are better now.
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England just can't play spin. Had India batted first here they would've scored 350.
 
Again, why England won't be able to win the World Cup next year. India or Pakistan are winning the cup. England won't have their flat pitches, India has a very good spin attack, with decent quick bowlers, we have a decent spin attack with very good quick bowlers. If Pakistan can get the ball reversing like they did last year, I back Pakistan to make it to the final.

India Vs Pakistan World Cup Final, I'm calling it!
 
aloo paratha said:
True, I guess. this was a better pitch compared to last time, at least had some spin and started reversing a bit at the end. Poor Aussie bowlers had nothing :inzi
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Dont agree that this pitch was any different. Before the spinners came in it was looking pretty easy.

therefore instead of blaming the pitch and the ground which is the fashionable option for the usual suspects ( Iam not saying you do this) it is time to acknowledge and appreciate the bowling skills of the Indian spinners who have found a way to overcome the hurdles and raise the bar.
 
Tusker said:
Dont agree that this pitch was any different. Before the spinners came in it was looking pretty easy.

therefore instead of blaming the pitch and the ground which is the fashionable option for the usual suspects ( Iam not saying you do this) it is time to acknowledge and appreciate the bowling skills of the Indian spinners who have found a way to overcome the hurdles and raise the bar.
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Don't get me wrong, Kuldeep is very talented and I know the pitch was still flat. I'm just saying it was a bit better than when Australia played, as there was at least some reverse swing.
 
Eng can outbat all teams on if ball does nothing otherwise they get in trouble. 90% of pitches are flat and it will work for Eng, but they will struggle in other 10%.

Now, it's not given that pitches in ICC tournaments won't be flat. Last WC in Aus is prime example.
 
Plz preserve this thread and the vehement defense of English pitches by some posters for when we havea thread about Indian pitches. It would be nice to observe the volte face. :P
 
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