Learning Japanese Thread...

[shaykh1985]

I've recently starting learning Japanese...

I was originally thinking to head to South Korea to teach but decided to change my mind when I couldn't motivate myself to learn Korean...and also when I decided my next stint would be atleast two years...

I've settled on Japan...money's decent and culture in particular is fascinating...and what better way to explore it that to learn the language...trying to get in as much as I can before I head out...

I also like the challenge of a tough language...motivates me to work hard...

So far I have managed to get down one of the syllabaries...this is the Hirigana...

There are three syllabaries in Japanese which is what makes it so intimidating...

Hiragana the one above which is used for words where kanji isn't used, particles, suffixes and verb and adjective inflections...

Its worth noting that specific symbols can change the pronounciation of a word...so for instance a ka sound can change to a ga sound...its not as difficult as it sounds once you work out the patterns...its all fairly logical...you also have something known as combo hiragana that I have to learn too...

This is for example when you add a ki+yu sound...it becomes kyu instead...

Katakana is the other alphabet that needs to be learned...the letters have the same sounds as Hiragana but are used for foreign words, scientific words, onomatopeias, emphasis words and food...I'll be moving onto this one next once i've practiced writing the combo hiraganas...Katakana looks a lot more straightforward...

And then finally the Kanji which is what is so complicated...its the Chinese symbols that have entered Japanese language and it is estimated that you need to learn atleast 2,000 of them to be able to read a newspaper and 3,000 of the most important ones to be proficient in Japanese...there are so many symbols and so many different pronunications of each symbol...i'm looking forward to this challenge...

Now multiply this list by 30 and thats what I need to learn...

Reading aside the language is supposed to be reasonably challenging...it has no tones so pronunciation is relatively straightforward...but the grammar is supposed to be tough...I can't really comment on it too much at present as I haven't got that far but as I do I will happily explain anything once I get to that point including anything that I have done up until now...

Anyone else ever tried learning this language?...

 

[shaykh1985]

So Harigana's finished...need to obviously practice it somewhat...good thing is a lot of kids books which I have stocked up on are written primarily in Harigana considering how difficult it is for the Japanese themselves to learn kanji...

They apparently learn it rote till the end of high school...

Harigana's difficult but it has patterns that one can form with the symbols and whilst there are 46 letters...they are essentially grouped into 11 based on consonants combining with the vowels...other than a few differences and some consonants not utilising each vowel the pattern is a fairly straightforward one...

a,i,u,e,o
ka,ki,ku,ke,ko
sa,shi,su,se,so
ta,chi,tsu,te,to
na,ni,nu,ne,no
ha,hi,hu,he,ho
ma,mi,mu,me,mo
ya,yu,yo
ra,ri,ru,re,ro
wa,wo
n

As mentioned in the opening post the same symbol can change pronounciation on addition of two dashes...these are known as Dakuten...

So the first symbol would normally look like:

But once you add the two dashes it changes...(look at the image)...

So the original is Ka which transforms to Ga...

All words beginning with K become G's...
And then there are others for the rest...

S becomes Z...
T becomes D...
H becomes B...

In addition H can also becomes P...so ha can become pa...that is symbolised by the circle as you can see on the initial image...

So whilst it may look like a lot of things to figure out its just simple patterns...

Combo Hiraganas also initially look threatening but are relatively straightforward...

Its combining Hiragana surprisingly enough...its written form doesn't really change except its smaller...so no new symbols to learn...all that one needs to learn is that the symbols together create a new sound...

Only specific Hiragana can be combined...so those from the i row:

ki, shi, chi, ni, hi, mi, ri...

and they combine with those with the y column so ya, yu, yo...

So you get combinations such as:

ki + yu...this would combined to create kyu...

Exceptions are chi and shi which would create chu and shu...Dakuten have a few differences but I will leave that for now...

For what initially looked like a nightmarish alphabet is challenging but in many ways simple...

While a lot of the alphabet has been committed to memory I still have to pause when I read sometimes...

Anki is brilliant for consolidation of hiragana following initial learning...

Initial learning itself was done using Heisig's 'Remember the Kana' booklet and various free resources such as Textfugu.com and a Hiragana drag and drop game among others...

I'm only two days in since I started learning so will use the week to consolidate my Hiragana...knowing Hiragana means I can start on vocabulary and also means courses such as Genki (a renowned course) are accessible to me...I've known people who have studied languages from the Far East using Roman script and its just taking a shortcut but taking longer to get to your destination...

I figured this out in two days solid study...sure there are many who could do it quicker...fun language so far...heres hoping I can eventually conquer those kanji...to know 2,000 of them before I go to Japan would be ideal...

 

[shaykh1985]

Kana all complete...Hiragana and Katakana...

Hiragana in theory has more difficult symbols than the Katakana but they are significantly more distinctive which makes it easier imo...im hoping distinctiveness is what will help when I move into the Kanji...

From my reading it appears that kids learn 1006 in their first year...and start with 12 stroke Kanjis...

This moves upto 18 and eventually work their way up to 24 strokes...what this means is how many strokes are needed to write a symbol...for my own purposes though I'm only interested in the reading aspect really...

Some of these symbols must be a nightmare to actually write...

This ones 48 strokes:

This one has the most unique strokes at 44:

Ideally gonna try and learn the necessary 1,945 basic within the next 6 months...

 

[rockers2012]

For vocabulary review, tips on language assimilation and how input is the only way to improve language skills in your target language. Below website is a worth checking out.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/

 

[shaykh1985]

For vocabulary review, tips on language assimilation and how input is the only way to improve language skills in your target language. Below website is a worth checking out.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/

Yeah I read a bit about AJATT...have you used it yourself?...right now I'm working through Genki I for general learning and gonna start on Kanji in Context...

 

[shaykh1985]

Made a start on the Kanji...gonna try and bang out 50-60 of these a day...get around 2,000 and you've got the basics down...learn 3,000 and your in a good place...

But for this time I only want to learn the English meaning...

Kanji has different pronounciations...so would rather learn the pronounciations once I've learned the symbols themselves...

The Japanese naturally learn words in order of importance and need which means that learn difficult symbols...

This is the symbol for monkey 猿 and kids would learn that from the start...

As an adult and considering I'm not in Japan yet I don't have to choose Kanji based on importance...I can pick them by ease...

The good thing I've discovered is that Kanji are formed of something known as radicals...these are symbols within a kanji and can be a kanji themselves...thus one can break down a kanji by radicals rather than number of strokes which is significantly more intimidating...

A simple example...

女 woman

子 child

女 + 子 = 好 like ...you add the two radicals and you get the symbol for like...child is actually a combination of two symbols (total 了+ one 一)

As you get further you will have practiced and retained the radicals which means you just have to remember which of them are required for a particular word...

So eg for like...I like women and children helps one remember what like is symbol wise...or one child is teetotal...

It makes logical sense...its better to think of Kanji as individual parts than to memorise how they look...can you imagine if we tried to memorise what every English word looked like?...

Obviously the difference here is Japanese contains between 200-250 radicals not 26 letters like English so it is of course harder but not nearly as tough as it looks...

 

[Strike!]

How's it progressing Shaykh? Feel like learning myself but it seems very hard.

 

[Strike!]

How's it progressing Shaykh? Feel like learning myself but it seems very hard.

5 years later... Using Anki application, I've learned a decent amount of Japanese in six months..