Legalize reverse swing

[waleed88]

Reverse swing has been around in the game for a long time.

Test Matches are made more interesting by it, Fast bowlers have more reason to run in and bowl fast.

It makes for a more exciting contest.

Legalize not in a way that you can do whatever you want with the ball.

If its controlled and regulated, such incidences wouldn't occur in Test Matches where there is really nothing for the bowlers.

I say this being a Pakistani who is a big fan of reverse swing, but never gets to see it like they used to do it in the old days.

For e.g an idea, (and this is just an idea) that ICC should have roughed up balls, regulated and controlled by the ICC, and allow a 10 over spell anywhere around the innings, like a Power play but for the bowlers.

That will add incentive, and avenue to the game.

In an age when the pitches are becoming more flat and easier to bat on, a 10 over power play with roughed up balls will be alot of fun and will
keep the bowling side in the game.

Plus fast bowlers will be in the game more. And specially in the subcontinent where its only about the spin bowlers bowling in the 4th innings.

With the umpires looking after the ball, and cameras, its an art that needs to have some legal avenue to be used in a regulated and controlled manner.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I think you mean legalise Ball Tampering? Reverse Swing is legal.

 

[waleed88]

I think you mean legalise Ball Tampering? Reverse Swing is legal.

Can't be.... the ball condiiton cannot be altered in a way that it affects the behavior of the ball.

 

[waleed88]

I think you mean legalise Ball Tampering? Reverse Swing is legal.

No a ball that is roughed up in a legal manner so its not upto the players but controlled by the ICC and the match authority.

 

[ManFan]

Can't be.... the ball condiiton cannot be altered in a way that it affects the behavior of the ball.

So are you saying that ALL teams that have reversed the ball, did so in an illegal manner?

 

[waleed88]

So are you saying that ALL teams that have reversed the ball, did so in an illegal manner?

There is no legal way to reverse swing... That is what I come to the conclusion of. Even using spit is tempering if you look at it by the letter of the law.

 

[ManFan]

There is no legal way to reverse swing... That is what I come to the conclusion of. Even using spit is tempering if you look at it by the letter of the law.

I think it is possible to do it legally.

Some teams want it to be done to extravagant measures so they use mints, bottle caps, etc.

I believe in 92’, there was an ODI match, between PAK and ENG, and the umpires changed the ball without informing the players. The bowlers still got it to reverse.

Wasim’s spell of 5-10 from 7 overs for Lancashire vs. Leicestershire in 93’ confirmed that he was reversing it legally. After the match, Benaud and Illingworth concluded that Wasim alone could reverse because none of the other bowlers could do the same.

Which makes a fair argument. Why can’t all bowlers take heaps of wickets with reverse if its so easy to do so?

 

[KingKhanWC]

There is no legal way to reverse swing... That is what I come to the conclusion of. Even using spit is tempering if you look at it by the letter of the law.

lol

Reverse happens when playing field or pitch is abrasive. Players then shine the ball on one side and allow the other side to stay dry. This is all that is required for the ball to reverse.

 

[90MPH]

I think it is possible to do it legally.

Some teams want it to be done to extravagant measures so they use mints, bottle caps, etc.

I believe in 92’, there was an ODI match, between PAK and ENG, and the umpires changed the ball without informing the players. The bowlers still got it to reverse.

Wasim’s spell of 5-10 from 7 overs for Lancashire vs. Leicestershire in 93’ confirmed that he was reversing it legally. After the match, Benaud and Illingworth concluded that Wasim alone could reverse because none of the other bowlers could do the same.

Which makes a fair argument. Why can’t all bowlers take heaps of wickets with reverse if its so easy to do so?

Ok it’s possible to reverse a cricket ball legally but to do so you need perfect conditions - I.e. used pitches on the side and a dry wicket. Or a lot of luck where the ball goes in the stand and gets damaged on one side.

Otherwise the vast majority of times the ball is reversed with some forms of tampering. The vast majority of teams tamper with the ball now that they know the secrets of reverse swing - that’s the truth whether people like it or not.

Now I don’t have a problem if it’s a small subtle tampering using natural methods - without reverse swing Test Cricket would be almost be dead.

However the red line should be using foreign objects or substances - that alters the ball far too quickly and is cheating.

 

[ManFan]

Ok it’s possible to reverse a cricket ball legally but to do so you need perfect conditions - I.e. used pitches on the side and a dry wicket. Or a lot of luck where the ball goes in the stand and gets damaged on one side.

Otherwise the vast majority of times the ball is reversed with some forms of tampering. The vast majority of teams tamper with the ball now that they know the secrets of reverse swing - that’s the truth whether people like it or not.

Now I don’t have a problem if it’s a small subtle tampering using natural methods - without reverse swing Test Cricket would be almost be dead.

However the red line should be using foreign objects or substances - that alters the ball far too quickly and is cheating.

Which is why you rarely see reverse these days in Test cricket. Pakistan haven’t been able to reverse it and get wickets since the ENG tour to the UAE in 2015.
ENG used plenty of reverse against PAK during the 5th day of the 2nd Test in 2016. There were some people on PP who claimed that there was foul play involved. But they were not caught and the conditions were flat and dry, therefore, they did it within the legal limits.

 

[Aman]

I'd like this, we're toothless with the old ball and clearly don't work the ball over enough.

 

[ManFan]

I'd like this, we're toothless with the old ball and clearly don't work the ball over enough.

Conditions don’t suit reverse in NZ.

 

[Aman]

Conditions don’t suit reverse in NZ.

Tell that to Australia, they were able to get it to reverse the last time they toured.

 

[ManFan]

Tell that to Australia, they were able to get it to reverse the last time they toured.

Maybe we have an answer now. But they weren’t caught, so benefit of the doubt.

 

[ManFan]

All NZ need is another Neil Wagner type of bowler. That’s a guy who takes the pitch out of the equation.

 

[waleed88]

lol

Reverse happens when playing field or pitch is abrasive. Players then shine the ball on one side and allow the other side to stay dry. This is all that is required for the ball to reverse.

Umpires can still change the ball if the ball is deemed to be altered to a really different level. Players are not allowed to even throw the ball on the pitch or throw it on multiple bounces.

 

[waleed88]

I think it is possible to do it legally.

Some teams want it to be done to extravagant measures so they use mints, bottle caps, etc.

I believe in 92’, there was an ODI match, between PAK and ENG, and the umpires changed the ball without informing the players. The bowlers still got it to reverse.

Wasim’s spell of 5-10 from 7 overs for Lancashire vs. Leicestershire in 93’ confirmed that he was reversing it legally. After the match, Benaud and Illingworth concluded that Wasim alone could reverse because none of the other bowlers could do the same.

Which makes a fair argument. Why can’t all bowlers take heaps of wickets with reverse if its so easy to do so?

Well the cameras were never this advanced back in the day. I doubt anyone could've caught Aussies doing it if not for HD cameras zooming into what Bancroft was taking out from his pocket and putting it in. It seems they have been doing it for a while.

Point is we don't have proof of what went on or what was applied on the ball. It was something no one saw and it was easier to get away with this back in the day.

Apply lozengers to the ball, the ball won't change in appearance that much it will really change in characteristics.

Which brings my point, if ICC regulate it and provide old balls that are created by ICC, everyone gets a level playing field. Then good bowlers will always be able to extract it and the really bad ones won't be able to.

 

[ManFan]

Well the cameras were never this advanced back in the day. I doubt anyone could've caught Aussies doing it if not for HD cameras zooming into what Bancroft was taking out from his pocket and putting it in. It seems they have been doing it for a while.

Point is we don't have proof of what went on or what was applied on the ball. It was something no one saw and it was easier to get away with this back in the day.

Apply lozengers to the ball, the ball won't change in appearance that much it will really change in characteristics.

Which brings my point, if ICC regulate it and provide old balls that are created by ICC, everyone gets a level playing field. Then good bowlers will always be able to extract it and the really bad ones won't be able to.

The ICC really messed up by bringing in the 2 new balls rule in ODI cricket.

 

[waleed88]

The ICC really messed up by bringing in the 2 new balls rule in ODI cricket.

I agree

 

[waleed88]

Another point I'd like to make with the advances in science and technology. New ways are being developed everyday to get unfair advantage.

There are labs set up on how to work and 'make' the ball, these experiments keep happening and I'm pretty sure SA and Aus are much more advance than us in doing these things. Alot of substances would have been applied and gotten feed back on. Nobody is trying stopping anyone from trying this in academies or labs to see the effect it has on the ball.

If there are labs on biomechanics and techonology studying bowling actions, there will be labs on this too.

This just puts the poorer boards at a competitive disadvantage. Bring the advantage on for everyone rather than just keeping it shady and hidden, deeming it illegal, teams still practice it either way.

 

[kingusama92]

They should allow it.

A good step would be to legalize using an abrasive pitch to rough up the ball (on the bounce).

 

[DeadBall]

They should allow it.

A good step would be to legalize using an abrasive pitch to rough up the ball (on the bounce).

Or they can take a leaf out of Sarfis book and throw back the ball each time on the tappa.

 

[ManFan]

Or they can take a leaf out of Sarfis book and throw back the ball each time on the tappa.

Never thought about it that way. Sarfi is a genius

 

[KingKhanWC]

Umpires can still change the ball if the ball is deemed to be altered to a really different level. Players are not allowed to even throw the ball on the pitch or throw it on multiple bounces.

I am aware of the rules but even if you play 100% by the rules, reverse is still possible if there is an abrasive pitch and outfield. In fact if this is the case the ball can start to reverse early within 10-15 overs.

 

[DeadBall]

People talking about Wasim and Waqar. I have seen Sohail Khan, USK and Stache Riaz reversing a 15 over old ball in the PSL. We seem to have been blessed with a natural talent without resorting to such hi jinxes.

 

[ManFan]

People talking about Wasim and Waqar. I have seen Sohail Khan, USK and Stache Riaz reversing a 15 over old ball in the PSL. We seem to have been blessed with a natural talent without resorting to such hi jinxes.

Stache Riaz for all his shortcomings, is the best at reverse in the world, still. His spell against ENG in the 2nd Test in their tour to the UAE was beautiful. He even kicked the ball a la futbol style in front of Root because some of the players had complained that PAK tampered with the ball in the previous match.

 

[DeadBall]

Stache Riaz for all his shortcomings, is the best at reverse in the world, still. His spell against ENG in the 2nd Test in their tour to the UAE was beautiful. He even kicked the ball a la futbol style in front of Root because some of the players had complained that PAK tampered with the ball in the previous match.

He is our only Test bowler who can constantly extract reverse swing in the UAE and has had a few match winning spells there. However just want to remind people what he did in his last outing

 

[Bilal7]

If you're skilled enough you can get the ball to move without relying on foreign objects. Foreign objects definitely make things easier but Imran, Wasim and Waqar and their teacher, Big Saf could get it going without foreign objects.

In modern times, Anderson and Steyn could do so as well. This does not mean that they never relied on foreign objects, it simply means that they were not totally dependent on them.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

It's quite easy to get reverse swing in the subcontinent. You see Yadav and Shami using it all time. Pakistan play in UAE with grassy outfields and dead soil.

I wouldn't mind if they can figure a way to monitor work on the ball. The umpires know what's happening anyway and will ignore as long as you don't make it blatantly obvious. I find the cricketing world's reaction quite funny when someone's caught. They start acting holier than thou even though they've all done it.

 

[WengerOut]

If it can be achieved naturally , why tamper?

 

[HitWicket]

If it can be achieved naturally , why tamper?

If money can be earned by working why do people steal.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes, ball tampering should be legal although needs to be done in a controlled and regulated manner as you said. Completely agreed with the point.

Life should be made easier for fast bowlers.

 

[WengerOut]

If money can be earned by working why do people steal.

History says that supposedly working people did steal and I am asking why ??

 

[HitWicket]

History says that supposedly working people did steal and I am asking why ??

Less effort and larger returns.

 

[Titan24]

In ODI cricket it has become difficult to achieve due to two new ball rules but not at all impossible. We see that in tests as well as T20s and that happens legally if ball is maintained well.

People cheat bcz they want to generate reverse swing either early or in lack conducive situations.

 

[waleed88]

If it can be achieved naturally , why tamper?

If its controlled by the ICC, it removes the question of players doing it. They are getting a ready made ball straight for this purpose and batsmen have chance to prepare for it as well. It opens new avenues and possibilities. Spells in the overs can turn the match on their heads. It just takes the responsibility of changing the ball from the hands of the players and into the hands of the admin.


New and clever ways are being introduced to tamper with the ball to achieve the desired condition. That will be taken out of the equation once ICC take control of it themselves

 

[waleed88]

I am aware of the rules but even if you play 100% by the rules, reverse is still possible if there is an abrasive pitch and outfield. In fact if this is the case the ball can start to reverse early within 10-15 overs.

I'm saying the players shouldn't be allowed to dictate the condition of the ball. If ICC have a ball that is old and regulated, they can bring it into the game rather than players taking it into their own hands. Which then brings the possiblity of tampering...

Abrasive pitch is also an option but its not available everywhere in the world is it. Its not uniform to all countries I guess.

 

[waleed88]

Take an example from Islamabad's match vs Peshawar Zalmi. The ball was starting to reverse from the 10th over and Islamabad was 4 quick wickets. The ball was changed after that if I'm not wrong.

Don't think anyone worked on the ball but it was moving around quite a bit. Did the players work the umpire? The umpires deemed it unsuitable and changed it after that

 

[jeetu]

One expensive to go about it is to prepare some pre-conditioned ball which can be changed midway in a match. 45 overs after Test , 25 overs in ODI , 10 overs in test.
Bowling team could pick
a) New Ball
b) Ball aiding reverse swing
c) Bowl aiding spinners
d) Same ball as before provided its in shape.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Take an example from Islamabad's match vs Peshawar Zalmi. The ball was starting to reverse from the 10th over and Islamabad was 4 quick wickets. The ball was changed after that if I'm not wrong.

Don't think anyone worked on the ball but it was moving around quite a bit. Did the players work the umpire? The umpires deemed it unsuitable and changed it after that

And the next ball started to reverse as well. We're the masters of this craft.

 

[waleed88]

One expensive to go about it is to prepare some pre-conditioned ball which can be changed midway in a match. 45 overs after Test , 25 overs in ODI , 10 overs in test.
Bowling team could pick
a) New Ball
b) Ball aiding reverse swing
c) Bowl aiding spinners
d) Same ball as before provided its in shape.

I like that idea. Something that requires to use a brain, and not requires something that is not in administrations control or requires the umpire to look at the ball and smell it after every over.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

it's silly what Australia are doing. It's not like CA didn't know they were tampering before they were caught lol. All this drama is just stupid.

 

[jnaveen1980]

One expensive to go about it is to prepare some pre-conditioned ball which can be changed midway in a match. 45 overs after Test , 25 overs in ODI , 10 overs in test.
Bowling team could pick
a) New Ball
b) Ball aiding reverse swing
c) Bowl aiding spinners
d) Same ball as before provided its in shape.

Game is fine the way as it is. This sports is famous for its uncertainties. Let us not ruin it

 

[Bewal Express]

Reverse swing is legal, its the illegal bits of reverse swing that we need to eliminate. Legal Reverse can and does happen but the ball just tails in, its rare for it to go banana swing.

 

[barah_admi]

As everyone has said, it is already legal lol

BUT I disagree that laws need to be changed to allow foreign objects onto the field. That should never be the case.