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Let's be honest. We just are not good enough

Gullycricket

Gullycricket

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Yet again here we are. Another defeat staring at the team. Yet again people will come and say ,"I was right" or "X should have played" etc . You know the usual from fans. Nobody should defend this performance. But the question is Could anything different be expected?
I want you all to think differently. We are just not good enough. Shaheen is not as good as Bumrah. Kuldeep is class. There is no one who can match India man to man. Let's be honest.

Netherlands don't feel sad after losing. They just take the positives and enjoy the game. You all do it too. I say it again "No Amir,Imad etc can prevent what's a rotten system." They too aren't good enough. We sadly are miles behind.
 
Yes if we stop focusing on Pakistan for a minute the fact is that the opposition is a million times better.

A combined Indo-Pak 15 man squad would consist of 14 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
 
Gonna be honest I just don’t really understand the mindset. Do you guys even enjoy watching cricket? Why keep watching if you think we will always lose?

What do you think the point of sports is? For me I just have a good time with friends and family watching on my day off from work, I like when we win and am sad when we lose - but it seems like some of you guys go into full on emotional meltdown mode and I’m not sure it’s beneficial for you to keep watching the sport
 
hitthestump said:
Yes if we stop focusing on Pakistan for a minute the fact is that the opposition is a million times better.

A combined Indo-Pak 15 man squad would consist of 14 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
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@Mamoon what would you like to say about the second paragraph here?
 
Yes if we talk about India vs Pakistan in ICC events. Yes we are not good enough to tackle pressure and come out on top.
 
We have improved a lot. Last time we could only make 128.

What should actually concern you is that Babar Azam has turned out to be another Hashim Amla type player. He'll always be there scoring runs and doing great on stats but he'll never be THAT guy. The one who takes the match away from the opposition.
 
160KPH said:
Gonna be honest I just don’t really understand the mindset. Do you guys even enjoy watching cricket? Why keep watching if you think we will always lose?

What do you think the point of sports is? For me I just have a good time with friends and family watching on my day off from work, I like when we win and am sad when we lose - but it seems like some of you guys go into full on emotional meltdown mode and I’m not sure it’s beneficial for you to keep watching the sport
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Agreed. If all you get out of it is negativity, you’re just hurting your own self all the time.
 
Wristslitters are out.

Anyone remembers last T20 World Cup. Pakistan lost to Bharat and still made the final

Don’t give up
 
We have the players, but we have no accountability or professionalism at the top.

We have a chief selector (inzi) who isn’t reliable as there’s a conflict of interest with his nephew being in the side.

We have a captain who picks a squad full of ‘yes men’. Players who won’t question his authority. He was given a warning during the Asia Cup, he had time to make changes but he stuck with the same players.

We have a chairman every 6 months, which means we have a new coaching set up every 6 months.

We’re playing T20’s more than ODI’s, and therefore having to pick players based on T20 performances.

Most of us could name a better 15 man squad for the World Cup.

Nepotism is ripe in Pakistan, players who deserved to be picked for the WC are either in the reserves, sitting at home or in rehab after not being looked after by the management.

Tayyab Tahir
Usama Mir
Mohammad Haris
Saim Ayub
Imad Wasim
Arshad Iqbal
Abrar Ahmed
Amir Jamal

A list of players that need to be invested in for the next World Cup.

Time to let go off Imam, Fakhar, Shadab, Nawaz, Ifthikar etc.
 
I think the biggest concern is the lack of building an XI for modern cricket. The roles are off for half the team. Way too many accumulators and then refusing to play a specialist spinner.
 
Rana said:
Embarrassing how?

Did I complain at any of you after the SL win?
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Because you think the purpose of cricket is for you to make negative predictions and celebrate when you’re proven right. No respect in that. If you’re a fan why wouldn’t you celebrate when they play good?

It’s just a game, why not just watch the match and hope for your team to win?
 
I’ve had to come back and post today as todays performance was absolutely shocking Mediocre team pakistan is playing like the 90s brand of cricket and I’m sorry to say babar playing selfishly and afridi now finished post injury it’s a sorry sight. We will get hammered by India in semis or final anyway if we get there so better they pack they bags and go home. the openers are a joke even shafique is a timid player who will flatter to deceive
 
Rana said:
I agree

It means India will pick 5 keepers in their squad if according to @hitthestump Rizwan is the only one who gets in their team
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Bit confused why you’re asking for endorsements from @Mamoon when post 189 displays what he thinks of you

Mohammad Rizwan "The criticism seems to be dying down a bit, so I must be doing something right"

On stats Rizwan is twice the player to Fakhar let alone Sharjeel who I will not even bother bringing in this discussion as it's an insult to Rizwan to mention his name alongside a corrupt fat slogger. Cricket isn’t played on stats alone Easy to neglect this when the said players are not...
ppforum.pakpassion.net ppforum.pakpassion.net
 
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As I said a few days ago, we have bang average players, playing as bang average players. It's not a terrible team but the batting lacks quality, if Babar struggles, we struggle, we have a WK at 4, which is just nonsense. Our spinners are barely FC and here they are playing against Ind, a team that probably faces better net bowlers. Our depth in fast bowling is poor and you know that because Hasan Ali is playing. And the most depressing thing is that things can't get any better because if anyone watches the FC you know how terrible the standard is and it's played terrible wickets on which players can't be tested or can improve on.
 
Rana said:
And it changes what for Pakistan’s poor show right now?
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It makes no difference either way but as the poster stated you twerking for him is funny. Me and him have our political differences but at least he won't a
 
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Bewal Express said:
It makes no difference either way but as the poster stated you twerking for him is funny. Me and him have our political differences but at least he won't advocate the tripe you advocate.
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You sound hurt

Everything I say (cricket analysis) is done with a fair understanding of the game.

Sure I am not always correct. Sometimes I am horrendously off the mark, but so what? When I am right, you will never admit it. Not that I seek the validation of nobodies
 
India are going to win this World Cup at a canter and quite easily they are league above other teams in every department. Let’s be honest l. Reason they are no 1 in every format
 
ake our pace bowlers - we were laughed at for decades for our ineptitude in this department. But our pace attack has gone from the likes of Debashis Mohanty to Javagal Srinath to today Bumrah/ Siraj/ Shami/ Yadav.

Progression. Slow, inevitable.

And no one’s laughing now.

In terms of infrastructure and systems Pakistan is ten plus years behind. It is unable to systematically nurture and develop its talent to compete.

Pakistan will win one off games, maybe even sensational victories, but in the main the team and its individual players are now not in the same class as the top 4 teams, including India. That’s reality.
 
Rana said:
You sound hurt

Everything I say (cricket analysis) is done with a fair understanding of the game.

Sure I am not always correct. Sometimes I am horrendously off the mark, but so what? When I am right, you will never admit it. Not that I seek the validation of nobodies
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No it's not. AA for captain, Umar is better than Riz are some of your funny and tragic suggestions. Need I say more
 
Just one bad match and you are giving up? Fans like Rana don't give up on their negativity even if Pakistan wins 5 series in a row. Learn something from them.
 
Most of you guys make me laugh. I hesitate to post on here because of the comments. It is a game. India have a better team than us. We lost. There are still 6 games to go.
 
hitthestump said:
Yes if we stop focusing on Pakistan for a minute the fact is that the opposition is a million times better.

A combined Indo-Pak 15 man squad would consist of 14 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
Click to expand...
If they'd select anyone, they'd ironically select naseem Shah who isn't in our team atm and they'll select maybe abrar and try to groom him as their 2nd spinner cause lad has potential.

They wouldn't take anyone else lol 😂😂.

Rizzu wouldn't be selected over Rahul or Kishan.

Kishan is a terrible keeper but they'd value his aggressive batting skills over rizzu's gun keeping skills.
 
Rana said:
You sound hurt

Everything I say (cricket analysis) is done with a fair understanding of the game.

Sure I am not always correct. Sometimes I am horrendously off the mark, but so what? When I am right, you will never admit it. Not that I seek the validation of nobodies
Click to expand...

Alot of posters won't. I value your posts high as soon as I read your NZ vs Pak series and your Asia cup series analysis.

Those were gun Level posts tbh.
 
Pakistan entered the race with too much dead weight.
Shadab and Nawaz are out of form and do nothing for the team.
Shaheen is really out of form. Tough to see him trundle in mid 130’s. Could be fitness or low in confidence.
The newbies Shafiq and the other guy may not have seen such pressure situations before.
Hasan Ali must be given the honorary title Kumar for his epic trundling today. Even Shardul looked like Mashal compared to his pace.

Lots to think for Pakistan coach and captain.
 
Rana said:
It takes years to build World Cup squads

Not like Pakistan, who axed 70% of their fully fit and young players in a 4 year process. Just because of personal and political indifferences.
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^^^ This is something I advocated as well.

NZ cultivated 5 players while playing theirn2nd string against us while we were focused on NO 1 RANK
 
Today shouldn’t be a surprise.

This Indian team is absolutely elite. World class openers, world class seamers in all phases, a brilliant attacking, unorthodox spinner and a brilliant defensive spinner in Kuldeep and Jadeja, 6 genuine bowling options and a brilliant middle order to boot. They could lose 3 early wickets and still win matches at a canter due to their strength. They can skittle the best of batting lineups in this tournament. They’re the best team in the world, by far, and it’s their trophy to lose. What they perhaps lacked in 2019 (a reliable middle order, even though they were still the best performing team in that tournament for me), they now possess. Kudos to them and congratulations to their fans.

I believe we overrate our team mainly due to cricket being the only thing we really have going for us as a nation. Our seamers aren’t as good as other teams for the longer formats as we think, our batting unit isn’t as strong as we think, Babar is more of an Amla than a Kohli (which is still good given the relative lack of talent we produce as a nation) and the less said about our spinners, the better. We need to think longer term and have a solid plan into a genuinely consistent team that can beat the best teams on the basis of our collective strength, rather than hoping for variable, magic moments to bail us out.

Ultimately, we have to play out of our skin to beat India in this format. India simply need to bring their normal game.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Pakistan entered the race with too much dead weight.
Shadab and Nawaz are out of form and do nothing for the team.
Shaheen is really out of form. Tough to see him trundle in mid 130’s. Could be fitness or low in confidence.
The newbies Shafiq and the other guy may not have seen such pressure situations before.
Hasan Ali must be given the honorary title Kumar for his epic trundling today. Even Shardul looked like Mashal compared to his pace.

Lots to think for Pakistan coach and captain.
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Because this is all babar's fault.

Firstly he never rotated anyone in the afg or Asia cup series.

This resulted in naseem being injured, harisnrauf suffering strains and shaheen suffering a broken finger, haris and shaheen are at full strength. All of this could be avoided if he didn't shoehorn them into every match.

Their was no reason to play them against Nepal or all 3 afg games or even all 5 NZ games against 2nd string.

It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that your 2 best test bats saud and Abdullah should be given a go against nz, afg, Asia cup before randomly shoving them ti biggest stage of all with zero match practise, especially when fakhar and agha were dead weights
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
ake our pace bowlers - we were laughed at for decades for our ineptitude in this department. But our pace attack has gone from the likes of Debashis Mohanty to Javagal Srinath to today Bumrah/ Siraj/ Shami/ Yadav.

Progression. Slow, inevitable.

And no one’s laughing now.

In terms of infrastructure and systems Pakistan is ten plus years behind. It is unable to systematically nurture and develop its talent to compete.

Pakistan will win one off games, maybe even sensational victories, but in the main the team and its individual players are now not in the same class as the top 4 teams, including India. That’s reality.
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This is true. And we can live with it. You just look for little improvements now and again. Mohanty, srinath and prasad were fantastic bowlers. Don’t forget the third best spinner of all time kumble was alongside them. Not to mention the two best batsmen to have played the game in srt and dravid. I think what is annoying the fans is that we can’t win just because of 3 or 4 good players. We need at least 15-20 players and until then we will just be average. But it’s a long World Cup we just need 6 wins to make it through the next round. India was always going to be the toughest game.
 
We are not good enough I now agree and am fully on dark side. BUT I will still watch my team play and support them and believe they can win. such is my sickness, but agree with OP on no "ifs ands buts" after losses needed. We are not good enough to compete mentally and talent wise with Indian team and other top squads. ON Given days we can pull an upset that's all I can hope for now.
 
We won the emerging acc Asia cup.

We are good enough, we just wasted 4 years. Other teams were building, we were obsessed with averages.

Playing the same openers for 5 years and when this openers go out of form, we have zero replacements while India cultivated ishan kishan and Gill lol. Gill replaced dhawan and kishan is willing to replace rohit if he gets unfit or injured in one or 2 games.

Nz team cultivated like 22+ players all ready in these 4 years lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
We won the emerging acc Asia cup.

We are good enough, we just wasted 4 years. Other teams were building, we were obsessed with averages.

Playing the same openers for 5 years and when this openers go out of form, we have zero replacements while India cultivated ishan kishan and Gill lol. Gill replaced dhawan and kishan is willing to replace rohit if he gets unfit or injured in one or 2 games.

Nz team cultivated like 22+ players all ready in these 4 years lol.
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Blame the PCB for that, as we have hardly played ODIs in these four years.
 
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Guys it isn't about money, we have plenty of money, we literally can host our own league and we won the emerging acc Asia cup.

It's the nepotism and management
 
Sure, it’s a game and teams will win or lose. But Pakistan isn’t losing. It’s capitulating consistently. And I am not convinced it’s an issue of skill or talent, it’s a definite mental block.

More than anything, Pakistan needs a competent sport psychologist to counsel these players. They always freak out and panic at the big stage. Just recall the 1999 WC final.

Something has to be done.
 
Just hope we can bounce back stronger, a lot can be said and analysed about how we could have approached this game differently, but that fact is now that it has passed, and we go again for our next 6. We can give more energy to try and break our duck in 4 years time.

You can never truly write off an unpredictable side.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Blame the PCB for that, as we have hardly played ODIs in these four years. We are selecting players on the sporadic ODIs we play and mostly because of T20 cricket.
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We were not selecting players based of t20 cricket otherwise saim ayub would be selected as he's our no 4 in t20 atm.

We were selecting players based of dosti yari.

Babar: We can't select saim ayub cause he lacks list A experience but I'll select Abdullah who has even list A experience because I love his technique.

Or

Let's put pur best spinner in reserves for my friend shadab and nawaz. Usama.bowled better then these 2 in the warmups but he's on bench.

Haris was the best player in 2022 t20 world cup but he's warming the reserve bench and barely played any games.

Bro we have 8 games of tours + an entire Asia cup. It may not have been enough to build a winning team but it was enough to actually build something lol.

it has nothing to do with t20 lol when saud and abrar haven't played t20 yet
 
We are not good enough and we never will be good enough. Pakistan’s cricket culture and mentality are rotten to the core.

We need a factory reset but that will not happen because we don’t know what our weaknesses are and how to address them.

We are a delusional cricket nation. We need to overcome our delusion by lowering our expectations instead of demanding the players to raise their standards when they aren’t capable.
 
hitthestump said:
Yes if we stop focusing on Pakistan for a minute the fact is that the opposition is a million times better.

A combined Indo-Pak 15 man squad would consist of 14 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
Click to expand...
rizwan babar azam and naseem shah will easily find a place. an inform shaheen afridi too
 
Cover Drive Six said:
In any other team, Iftikar would likely be participating in coaching trials rather than representing the national team. :D

Shadab is a mediocre spinner and a fake allrounder. He is better suited for average teams and league tournaments.
Click to expand...

Shadab made his name on the basis of PSL performances which is a avg league.

On top of that big teams rest some key players when touring Pakistan.

This doesn't help pakistan develop.
 
Cryin Out Loud said:
ake our pace bowlers - we were laughed at for decades for our ineptitude in this department. But our pace attack has gone from the likes of Debashis Mohanty to Javagal Srinath to today Bumrah/ Siraj/ Shami/ Yadav.

Progression. Slow, inevitable.

And no one’s laughing now.

In terms of infrastructure and systems Pakistan is ten plus years behind. It is unable to systematically nurture and develop its talent to compete.

Pakistan will win one off games, maybe even sensational victories, but in the main the team and its individual players are now not in the same class as the top 4 teams, including India. That’s reality.
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Well some Pakistanis still like to laugh about our pace bowlers and our meatless diets . Even after we managed 100 medals in the Asian games . 😁
 
I had no doubts whatsoever that Pak won't make the semis, as I said in the other threads they will probably be 6th...ahead of SL, AFG, BAN and Net.... Anyone thinking otherwise is just a Pak fan and not speaking from a cricketing knowledge perspective.

4 of SENAI are certain to qualify, there is nothing else in it.. After Australia's poor start they are the ones currently lagging behind but don't count them out just yet... They are still very much capable of beating and ENG and NZ to get their campaign back on track
 
Pak v Aus in Bangalore will decide the team's eventual direction in the tournament. High altitude, small ground and lots of dew during second innings. Bowl first and restrict Aus ( they are not the old Aus ) and it can be chased. After this they have to beat atleast 3 of Eng, Afg, SA and NZ. Afg is walk in the park. Pakistan has the wood over SA and NZ at recent times. Even against England they have more than a chance. 75-80% chance of Pakistan reaching the semis.
 
Yes the pattern is set IND v NZ will decide the no.1 position, SA looks a cut above Pak and Ashes rivals and going by recent results both Eng and Aus knocked us in warmup.
Take a gamble and drop Imam Ifitikhar and Shadab for Aus game and play Fakhar Mir and Abrar vs Australia
 
Firstly congrats to India for a comprehensive win. But don't forget that NZ just recently destroyed England and SA outplayed Australia, so we should have things in perspective.

Secondly Pakistan played at a ground with not only 11 players against them but 130.000 against them. There was huge amount of preassure on them and some of the players really felt it. This happens, but now they have been trough this once and they should learn from this.

And we all knew even before the tournament started that our captaincy was poor, openers were not getting starts and our spinners were mediocre. We have simply not have focus on this at all believing our pace bowlers will solve the bowling part. But the pacers have been poor or they just have not found the right lengths on these wickets, not surprising sincce this WC is the first time they are playing here. We did not take care of our bowlers either. Had we rotated them properly Naseem would propbly been here. Injuries to Hasnain and Ihsanullah also led to focus on Mohammad Wasim and Hassan Ali, allthough not blaming Hassan at all. He has done well so far.

We have issues to be sorted out, but I have no doubt that Pakistan will come back even stronger. We have done well in the past also even losing to India in WC. Our fast bowlers are still young and the management needs to give them proper rest to recover. Things will get better. B
 
hitthestump said:
Yes if we stop focusing on Pakistan for a minute the fact is that the opposition is a million times better.

A combined Indo-Pak 15 man squad would consist of 14 Indian players and Mohammad Rizwan.
Click to expand...
Rizwan is not going to make it when Ind have keepers like Pant, Kishan , Samson & Rahul etc
 
I fear the worst for Pakistan from now onwards our batsman are suspect to quality fast bowlers and Starc Cummins Hazlewood Wood Woakes Curran Ngidi Rabada and a bonus of Adil Rashid that's 90 overs of world class bowling can we score against them at 6 an over against them with risk free cricket
 
Pakistan is good enough!!! @MenInG

You have survived defeat to Bharat in the last few tournaments to go on with your journey.

If Bharat had lost tonight, we would have still been semifinal contenders.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Yes if we talk about India vs Pakistan in ICC events. Yes we are not good enough to tackle pressure and come out on top.
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Neither are we good in bilaterals vs India. A 5 match ODI, 3 match test & 3 match T20I series between both teams would end up as 4-1 for Ind, 2-0 for Ind in tests & 2-1 for Ind in T20I'S anywhere in the world.
 
Mamoon said:
We are not good enough and we never will be good enough. Pakistan’s cricket culture and mentality are rotten to the core.

We need a factory reset but that will not happen because we don’t know what our weaknesses are and how to address them.

We are a delusional cricket nation. We need to overcome our delusion by lowering our expectations instead of demanding the players to raise their standards when they aren’t capable.
Click to expand...
The only decent bowler we had afridi is finished and trundling in at 80 mph post his injury.

That’s what happens where you rush your star bower back too quick from injury and make him play in every league in the world
 
It’s all about mindset mindset mindset

Btw where is the spin bowling coach
 
We aren't good enough for sure.

We are Pakistan. We celebrate unpredictability - how can that ever be a good thing?

TBH. it's not a cop out... I've become desistised to Pak performances now. I'm 40 and have seen it for as long as I can remember. 1996 was the most devastating loss to me. As time has gone, its easy for me to just put it down to being a game. That comes from years of disappointment, ineptitude and losses.

At some stage one needs to recognise and accept rather than place blind faith in romance - the reality is very different.

The worst thing Pakistani fans have above everything else (mediocre, ineptitude etc) is hope... somehow they always instil hope - its a lie, they're hopeless in reality.

Take what you get and savour it. When it doesn't go our way, it's because of the reality not the romantic facade.
 
I would say approach to managing the game needs improvement here because these players have already demonstrated that they have the ability to performance in other matches. All they just need is a positive mindset.
 
1. Pakistan players aren't good enough. I think most of us would agree to this point.

Why they aren't good or why PCB doesn't have replacement for injured/less skilled players? It's because the system to find new talent or groom them isn't there in first place.

2. It's just one loss. Pak can still make to semis and may even go on to win the WC like CT17. Cricket is an unpredictable game and Pak cricket team too.
Though the players may seem less skilled compared to others, you never know when luck comes into the picture and players can give their life's best performance.

For now, I think Pak fans should show some faith in the team and back them. Retrospection can be done after the tournament is over.
 
mominsaigol said:
We won the emerging acc Asia cup.

We are good enough, we just wasted 4 years. Other teams were building, we were obsessed with averages.

Playing the same openers for 5 years and when this openers go out of form, we have zero replacements while India cultivated ishan kishan and Gill lol. Gill replaced dhawan and kishan is willing to replace rohit if he gets unfit or injured in one or 2 games.

Nz team cultivated like 22+ players all ready in these 4 years lol.
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We had this 1 guy scoring a 100 vs India in the final (Emerging teams). Pak won the final, he gets called up to the national team and Babar plays all the games vs Afghanistan with his friends, even the dead rubber. How on earth are we ever going to groom new players?
 
We are not good enough, and we do not want to strive to be good enough

We are content with our personal rankings and averages. Securing our central contracts and making sure our agents are getting the best piece of the PCB cake ($$$).

We deserve this. Selection on merit died in 2019 when Misbah took over and brought in personal agendas
 
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