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Letting Mohammad Amir back in, the current situation with Sharjeel Khan became inevitable

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As I stated on countlesss occasions the example set was that no mattter the crime you will be let back in.

Now we have the result.

Our only hope in LO cricket could be gone.

Great stuff by the PCB and the fans who backed Amir.
 
Yes find a way to blame Amir. If Sharjeel really did this then it's all on him. Man people and their agendas
 
If what happened with Asif and Butt and the amount of immense mediafans scrutiny couldn't deter a person/player from fixing then nothing would whether Amir was back or not.
 
Clearly PCB's prevention plan has failed, if this is proven true
 
I disagree.

1) Players Are Told About Fixing Regulations Before Each Tour/Tournament
2) Trio's Example Was Already Set
3) Various Other Examples Have Been Set (BPL Bans)
4) ICC ACSU Is At Every Match

I'm sorry but if a player still can't learn they never were going to.
 
As I stated on countlesss occasions the example set was that no mattter the crime you will be let back in.

Now we have the result.

Our only hope in LO cricket could be gone.

Great stuff by the PCB and the fans who backed Amir.

totally agree with this. the only thing I will say that more than his inclusion has been the attitude of the fan base, public and media. rather than focussing on the fact that the three had dragged national pride through the mud and committed an act pretty close to treason in terms of representing the country and committing crimes on the back of that, they were forgiven, lauded and painted as saviours and victims.

it wasn't so much his inclusion as the open arms policy adopted toward him, and towards butt and asif too - countless interviews, the respect given to legends, not criminals and traitors.

I don't blame amir, he is only progressing along a path that he can at this point, its the attitude that belies a culture of corruption and favouring short term gain irrespective of ethics and legality.

its what the country deserves to be honest given the collective welcome to nationally disgraced traitors. not only were there very few of us opining a view that the trio should be banned for life, we were vilified for that position. just look at the mountain of hate that rained down on hafeez and azhar when they said they didn't feel comfortable with the principle of playing alongside national traitors.

excellent op - you reap what you sow.
 
As I stated on countlesss occasions the example set was that no mattter the crime you will be let back in.

Now we have the result.

Our only hope in LO cricket could be gone.

Great stuff by the PCB and the fans who backed Amir.

Lol, I had said this when Asif was pardoned for the 3rd time. I was just being a jealous Indian then. Of course Asif came back and took Amir with him. Now Amir came back. And the cycle continues
 
I take it we're not going to see Junaids here any time soon.

Carry on crying for Asif, Butt and co.

When you tolerate a culture of corruption please don't be surprised when others follow suit.
 
I take it we're not going to see Junaids here any time soon.

Carry on crying for Asif, Butt and co.

When you tolerate a culture of corruption please don't be surprised when others follow suit.

Lol, I had said this when Asif was pardoned for the 3rd time. I was just being a jealous Indian then. Of course Asif came back and took Amir with him. Now Amir came back. And the cycle continues

2 of the best posters see the logic.
 
What's happening with Butt and Asif should be a life lesson for any player. There is no justification. Stop putting mud on someone else for crime of others.
 
Agree. And like Aamir was indispensable, an aggressive opener is like gold dust for the team right now. We will hear calls in his favour when the situation gets a bit more desperate.
 
I agree completely. These things will continue to happen unless we ban these fixers for life.
 
I agree completely. These things will continue to happen unless we ban these fixers for life.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Think I'd wait for Investigations. PCB chair and Sethi are bit of loud mouth.
 
OP has pointed out an uncomfortable truth which people are not willing to accept. Amir is a disgrace who should not have been welcomed back into the system.

Can't eradicate and accommodate corruption at the same time. We should have made examples of the trio but we were too weak and pathetic to do so.
 
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The PCB to it's credit has started to act like a responsible cricket board. Perhaps if it had done so beforehand, then we would never have had the fixing situation arise in the first place. The fixing problem was rampant long before Amir & Co, it was only when the Pakistan players were targeted exclusively for a sting that the world finally woke up to the corruption rife in the game.
 
If 5 year ban and 2 year jail doesn't teach you a lesson.. Nothing will

Exactly.

People are giving too much weight to the impact of a life ban.

It would have done nothing. A player who doesn't learn how easy it's to get caught would never learn period.
 
If Amir was banned for life, would this had happened?

Yes it would had still happened.

Look, even a 5 year ban is no joke, its still fresh in peoples mind till this day. But yet some people are foolish.

Also, i was always in favour of putting amir with a life ban, but that life ban would had no affected the other players, as they still would had been involved.
 
I actually disagree, respectfully. If Sharjeel and Latif are not going to learn after seeing what happened to the trio, then what makes you think a ban would change their mind. The amount of backlash that the trio got and will probably get for the rest of their lives should be intimidating enough. Everyone deserves a second chance in life. The trio has paid for what they have done and should be allowed to play. The others shouldn't need examples to know that corruption is wrong.
 
It might still have happened of course. Capital punishment is the greatest form of punishment, yet it doesn't deter people.

The point is that there should be zero tolerance policy for match/spot-fixers, no exceptions. Enough of the 'he was young and naive and got drawn into it by his captain' etc. rubbish, which was used to allow Amir to get back into the team.
 
OP has pointed out an uncomfortable truth which people are not willing to accept. Amir is a disgrace who should not have been welcomed back into the system.

Can't eradicate and accommodate corruption at the same time. We should have made examples of the trio but we were too weak and pathetic to do so.

Fatties like Sharjeel following suit now.

Tbh I don't hunk there's much correlation
Five years is a huge time so no one is going to be like 'hey let's fix well come back in five years.'

This would have happened regardless
 
I'm still in shock. Doesn't makes sense for these two particular players to be involved in corruption.
 
Tbh I don't hunk there's much correlation
Five years is a huge time so no one is going to be like 'hey let's fix well come back in five years.'

This would have happened regardless

True and I mentioned it in my last post, but there is a considerable chance that impose life-bans will be more effective in discouraging players comparing to banning them for x number of years. There should be zero tolerance for this rubbish without any exceptions. Of course it doesn't guarantee that it will be eliminated for good, but that is the most the PCB can do, and it will surely be more effective to a certain degree.
 
OP has pointed out an uncomfortable truth which people are not willing to accept. Amir is a disgrace who should not have been welcomed back into the system.

Can't eradicate and accommodate corruption at the same time. We should have made examples of the trio but we were too weak and pathetic to do so.

Fatties like Sharjeel following suit now.

Murderers are often executed. Has this stopped people from committing murders?
 
Murderers are often executed. Has this stopped people from committing murders?

So does that mean that murderers should not be executed? Should match/spot-fixers not be get a lifetime ban because players will do it anyway?

Why not just let them go for free then? The point is that a lifetime ban is a bigger deterrent than a 5 year ban.
 
I concur.

We have set such a nefarious precedence for the future. With all that talk of 'Amir was just a teenager', 'Butt hypnotized him', 'our religion urge to forgive' and 'he has already served his ban', the most important aspect 'repercussions of allowing Amir back' was sadly never even considered.
 
Yes find a way to blame Amir. If Sharjeel really did this then it's all on him. Man people and their agendas

Indeed it is. Point is not blaming Amir but PCB. Perhaps bringing him back is creating a mindset that even if they do something like spot fixing, they will have money and if they got caught then they will have more than possible chance of coming back to Pak team...
 
This is a point scoring thread rather than a reflective one. If you look objectively at the spot fixing scandal since the Lords incident, obviously a lot of boards have tightened up procedures since the sting operation. I am sure if Herschelle Gibbs was involved in fixing today then he would never have got away with a slap on the wrist.

All boards are being forced to acknowledge that fixing is still a blight on the game and if the spot fixing with the trio has taught us anything it is that the PCB has had to up it's game along with all the other boards. To their credit it looks like they have done.
 
Nonsense.

sreesanth has been cleared to return and merven westfield also made his return.

This isn't a pcb problem and neither should Amir be blamed.
 
Innocent until proven guilty.


Sharjeel and Latif are still innocent, unless convicted by a court of law.
 
Nonsense.

sreesanth has been cleared to return and merven westfield also made his return.

No he hasn't, he's regularly been one of the top performers in the East Anglian Premier League (highest level of club cricket in the England) in the last few years yet no county has even taken a second glance at him.
 
No he hasn't, he's regularly been one of the top performers in the East Anglian Premier League (highest level of club cricket in the England) in the last few years yet no county has even taken a second glance at him.

He was still allowed to play cricket again.

Whether the counties want to employ him or not is a completely different matter.
 
Poor logic. Jail term along with 5 years of complete ban is not a small deterrence. If some one in his mid 20s is banned for 5 years then his career effectively comes to an end then and there.
People like Saleem Malik, Ata ur Rehman have also been banned for life in the past.
There is a right and a wrong. And the wrong way has its own attraction for the greedy and the short sighted. Punishment for a crime is not the only deterrence rather a person's attitude, circumstances, upbringing and caliber determine which path he chooses for himself.
 
I agree completely. These things will continue to happen unless we ban these fixers for life.

Won't - I can categorically prove that. Indian players earn several times only from their domestics, let alone international & IPL - still Azhar, Jadeja & Ajay Sharma's life ban didn't stop it in IPL. Compared to Amir, Butt or Asif, Azhar was a superstar who had to finish career at 99 Test & a century in last innings.

Pointing fingers to Amir or anyone won't help here - if a 10+ years veteran with glorious 6/7 years coming in career does this (I am not sure what actually they did, so fingers crossed), then you have only to blame the individual, who is rotten to the core.

I take it otherway - Amir is a burning example of what one such crime can do to a outstanding potential career. Whoever has the eye can see that the guy is at everyone's mercy now, whereas he could have been the highest earning cricketer outside India for best part of 20 years. If this doesn't open eyes, even hanging Amir won't have worked.
 
Lol, I had said this when Asif was pardoned for the 3rd time. I was just being a jealous Indian then. Of course Asif came back and took Amir with him. Now Amir came back. And the cycle continues

So, you doubt that Shreeshanth didn't know who was Azharuddin or Ajay Jadeja/Sharma?
 
No

But that's an excellent way to blame Amir instead of the player.
 
What you're saying is true but if you wanna go back in history then Wasim is the one who should be blamed. He's the one who ran wild with it and made it okay for everyone to fix.
 
Keep the off topic drivel off this thread and the Cricket section.
 
Won't - I can categorically prove that. Indian players earn several times only from their domestics, let alone international & IPL - still Azhar, Jadeja & Ajay Sharma's life ban didn't stop it in IPL. Compared to Amir, Butt or Asif, Azhar was a superstar who had to finish career at 99 Test & a century in last innings.

Pointing fingers to Amir or anyone won't help here - if a 10+ years veteran with glorious 6/7 years coming in career does this (I am not sure what actually they did, so fingers crossed), then you have only to blame the individual, who is rotten to the core.

I take it otherway - Amir is a burning example of what one such crime can do to a outstanding potential career. Whoever has the eye can see that the guy is at everyone's mercy now, whereas he could have been the highest earning cricketer outside India for best part of 20 years. If this doesn't open eyes, even hanging Amir won't have worked.

Let's move on from Amir for that matter. What solution do you propose if not imposing lifetime bans on these criminals?

For me, it is the only way. The lifetime bans imposed on the IPL fixers is surely going to make the next potential fixer think twice.

We need to make an example out of Sharjeel and Latif (if guilty), since we failed to do that with the trio, especially because the PCB did not impose any bans/hurdles itself and continued to plead for them throughout. I'm glad that the PCB have been ruthless in this saga so far which was not the case in 2010.

If banning fixers reduces the possibility of fixing in the future even by 1%, I'm okay with the deal.
 
Even criminal justice system has somewhat less severe and different punishments for the juveniles. And Amir was a juvenile at that stage. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to understand the age factor in Amir's case.
 
Even criminal justice system has somewhat less severe and different punishments for the juveniles. And Amir was a juvenile at that stage. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to understand the age factor in Amir's case.

I for one am less concerned about Amir's comeback.

As if and Butt though are a completely different kettle of fish.

Having said that, in most top professions, once you've broken a major rule, regulation or law it's nigh on impossible to get back into that trade irrespective of whether you have done the time.
 
The players involved aren't little kids whom will follow in suit when a mate gets away with something.

The players involved have a brain and indulged in such crime knowing the risk and consequences involved.
 
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pakistani people bacward thinking never ever forgive and forget anyone.. anyone recall the qayum report most the players named in that report are reveared as legands and are holding or have held high positions in pcb
 
If what happened with Asif and Butt and the amount of immense mediafans scrutiny couldn't deter a person/player from fixing then nothing would whether Amir was back or not.

Delusion at best.

A good beginning means nothing unless the final stages are not tended to properly. If the charges are proven, ofc the bad precedent set by the board and public support shown in bringing back convicted cheat(s) will be held accountable.
 
What a stupid thread!!! Salim Malik and Cronie was ban for fixing but it did not stop others to do again. There is life sentence for murderer but people still do that.
By your logic Pakistan cricket should be banned for so many fixing issues
 
As I stated on countlesss occasions the example set was that no mattter the crime you will be let back in.

Now we have the result.

Our only hope in LO cricket could be gone.

Great stuff by the PCB and the fans who backed Amir.

Can You garauntee it that sharjeel whether or not he has done it, wouldnt have done this fixing thing even if Amir would have been given a life ban.
Amir did loose 5 important years of his life not playing and if Sharjeel wants to risk his 5 10 years then it upto him.
 
Gotta agree with the OP and I said the same back in 2014 when Amir's return began to look possible.

The simple fact of the matter is, I don't even think its Amir's return itself that caused it, but the manner of it.

Mohammed Amir didn't have to start from the bottom and work 10X harder than anyone else around him to regain his trust and spot as he should have done. He was labelled one the greatest talents in the game continuously in his absence, some people maintained he was set up or just a naive innocent teenager when convicted, whatever theory or excuse was used one thing was common in them all = Amir wasn't fully responsible. Then he returned to domestic cricket and after some time his spot which, lets be realistic, was virtually guaranteed to him, was returned to him, and he was restored to exactly where he was in 2010, the spearhead of Pakistan's attack in all 3 formats. His return was seen by almost all as inevitable and many fans here were incredibly excited, letting their love of his talent overcome his actions. Videos were oozed over of his domestic return, he's still got it, can't wait to see him back in the green shirt where he belongs etc etc

5 years passed, the majority of the domestic and international players in 2010 were still around and it was as if nothing had changed. The kid who had it all in 2010 and dragged his country's name through the mud was back again with the responsibility of representing one of cricket's biggest names. You can argue he suffered jail, you can argue he was punished enough, point is 5 years after his offence, not particularly long when you consider he's still only 25 and has a decade at least left in him, he was back as if nothing had happened, profiting off a responsibility he tarnished in the past. And his two colleagues were both regularly on TV again and pushing for recalls themselves, hell Asif was doing punditry when he in particular should've been confined to the dustbin of history.

It's obviously foolish to say this recent event is Amir's fault, It's not, I highly doubt he'd be stupid enough to get involved again. But the example it set was awful. Commit the greatest crime an international cricketer can really commit, defrauding his own nation and fans and seeking self profit as a result of that, and have a significant amount of your fanbase praise you,defend you or call for your instant return for the team and to the highest stage, and you can after 5 years be back again if you're good enough and move on. Sorry but it's not a deterrence. The BCCI to their credit has always at least recently been incredibly tough on fixing. Look at Sreesanth, he was last week barred from playing Scottish club cricket by the BCCI, compare that to the PCB at every ICC meeting from 2013-2015 raising the case of Amir and requesting special treatment and clear guidelines and such on his behalf. Its clear that in India = fixing you're absolutely done, cricket is a no go anymore, you had your chance, goodbye, you've served your time and deserve to go back into society, but cricket as a career path is closed to you for good as you violated the trust placed in you as a cricketer, just like a bank frauder won't be allowed manage money again after violating the trust in his profession. PCB = if you're good enough we'll welcome you back, TV stations looking for controversy and views will hire you to give your opinions and the audience will tune in, you'll be live on TV again playing and succeeding in domestics. I'm sorry but that attitude means that if someone is offered enough of an incentive they'll take the risk, knowing if they're good enough they may yet get a second, third etc chance.

There are obviously other factors to be fair, and the PCB to their credit has actually done well in isolating this and nailing it so early on in the PSL, but the damage has already been done. Australians will be waking up to headlines all but stating that the best batsman Pakistan had in the tour is being flown home on suspicion of fixing, and that's 7 years of hard tireless work done to rebuild a shattered image flushed down the drain in a single headline.

When these offences continue to happen there can only be a couple of reasons. One is that the players aren't educated, which simply doesn't stack up anymore since the PCB gave all players a list of bookies and procedures to follow, and there have been several high profile cases with regards to McCullum,Peterson and so in in recent times. Another potential cause is money, but since those under suspicion are well paid by Pakistani standards and stood to gain a lovely pay check in the PSL anyway that doesn't stack either. Quite simply its a case of greed on the player's behalf mixed with the impression that the PCB's stance against fixing isn't strong enough, as evidenced by the fact that Butt is next in line to get a call up to LO sides based on domestic form and Asif also has his fans calling for his return, and Amir is obviously right back where he left off in 2010.

Nobody is saying the 3 in 2010 deserve to be harrassed forever, but there is a very realistic demand that if someone violated the trust placed in him as part of his profession e.g a charity manager embezzling funds and caught doing so, that he will be barred from that profession and ever being in such a position of authority again.

Fixing cannot and never will be entirely rooted out, some people are just greedy, but it can be significantly reduced by strong measures and punishments against it. PCB and the Pakistan cricket fraternity now need to look long and hard and ask themselves if the 2010 trio were dealt harshly enough in cricket terms, and maybe considering just banning all offenders for life if it wants to build up a no nonsense approach. The fact they've caught them so early leads me to believe that unlike before there actually is a desire to root out this behaviour in Pakistan cricket, but the punishments need to reflect this.
 
Clearly not.

So according to you Both Sharjeel and Latif took 5 years ban risk. 5 years later both will be useless. It impossible for an athlete to start there career after 32-32. Most players retired that age
 
As I stated on countlesss occasions the example set was that no mattter the crime you will be let back in.

Now we have the result.

Our only hope in LO cricket could be gone.

Great stuff by the PCB and the fans who backed Amir.

What a disgusting slur.

And this sort of content is considered okay?

Mohammad Amir did the crime, did the time both in jail and with 5.5 years out of international cricket, and is now rehabilitated and has not, to my knowledge, committed any further offences.

The ICC Tribunal which convicted him pointed out in its report that all three players should be encouraged to return to international cricket after their bans so that youngsters could learn from their mistakes.

But to then blame them for the crimes of their successors is tacky, tawdry and intellectually bankrupt.

I take it we're not going to see Junaids here any time soon.

Carry on crying for Asif, Butt and co.

When you tolerate a culture of corruption please don't be surprised when others follow suit.

I'm here all right. Having said that Asif and Butt are too old to recall anyway.

It is hardly Mohammad Amir's problem if some Pakistanis are such slow learners as to be borderline uneducable.

I suggest that instead of seeking uninvolved reformed offenders to blame, you Pakistanis take a good look in the mirror at the society that you have created, and how it contributes to this.

You live in a society with universal corruption, yet in which large portions of the population consider themselves pious and above reproach. A society in which - rather like in the USA but unlike other western countries - ancient scriptures are considered to trump modern ethics in the development and application of laws. A society in which people feel entitled to feel morally superior to a reformed adolescent offender like Mohammad Amir even if they themselves condone or participate in things that westerners consider far more abhorrent and appalling in their own private lives.

This thread is all about indulging feelings of moral superiority. But the thing is, people who want to do so by and large are people who most of us in the west think are the least qualified to do so.

What an obnoxious little thread this is.
 
Let's move on from Amir for that matter. What solution do you propose if not imposing lifetime bans on these criminals?

For me, it is the only way. The lifetime bans imposed on the IPL fixers is surely going to make the next potential fixer think twice.

We need to make an example out of Sharjeel and Latif (if guilty), since we failed to do that with the trio, especially because the PCB did not impose any bans/hurdles itself and continued to plead for them throughout. I'm glad that the PCB have been ruthless in this saga so far which was not the case in 2010.

If banning fixers reduces the possibility of fixing in the future even by 1%, I'm okay with the deal.

It won't reduce even 1%, trust me, unless the values are there - you can't fright someone out of crime. Among all probables, probably Sarjeel was the least expected to get involved for the golden future awaiting for him for best part of a decade.

Also, a punishment has to be justified - a life ban is like a death penalty for a player. You can't ban a player for life for manipulating few worthless T20 matches for franchise, which are corrupt itself & financed by some of the most corrupt people with their dirty money.

Whoever is caught will be prosecuted as per law & serve the punishment due as per the law - that should be the end of it. Otherwise, if you start to hang people for stealing a duck, still duck stealing won't stop, just the criminal caught red handed will pay undue penalty & others will become thinking invincible.
 
What a disgusting slur.

And this sort of content is considered okay?

Mohammad Amir did the crime, did the time both in jail and with 5.5 years out of international cricket, and is now rehabilitated and has not, to my knowledge, committed any further offences.

The ICC Tribunal which convicted him pointed out in its report that all three players should be encouraged to return to international cricket after their bans so that youngsters could learn from their mistakes.

But to then blame them for the crimes of their successors is tacky, tawdry and intellectually bankrupt.



I'm here all right. Having said that Asif and Butt are too old to recall anyway.

It is hardly Mohammad Amir's problem if some Pakistanis are such slow learners as to be borderline uneducable.

I suggest that instead of seeking uninvolved reformed offenders to blame, you Pakistanis take a good look in the mirror at the society that you have created, and how it contributes to this.

You live in a society with universal corruption, yet in which large portions of the population consider themselves pious and above reproach. A society in which - rather like in the USA but unlike other western countries - ancient scriptures are considered to trump modern ethics in the development and application of laws. A society in which people feel entitled to feel morally superior to a reformed adolescent offender like Mohammad Amir even if they themselves condone or participate in things that westerners consider far more abhorrent and appalling in their own private lives.

This thread is all about indulging feelings of moral superiority. But the thing is, people who want to do so by and large are people who most of us in the west think are the least qualified to do so.

What an obnoxious little thread this is.

It won't reduce even 1%, trust me, unless the values are there - you can't fright someone out of crime. Among all probables, probably Sarjeel was the least expected to get involved for the golden future awaiting for him for best part of a decade.

Also, a punishment has to be justified - a life ban is like a death penalty for a player. You can't ban a player for life for manipulating few worthless T20 matches for franchise, which are corrupt itself & financed by some of the most corrupt people with their dirty money.

Whoever is caught will be prosecuted as per law & serve the punishment due as per the law - that should be the end of it. Otherwise, if you start to hang people for stealing a duck, still duck stealing won't stop, just the criminal caught red handed will pay undue penalty & others will become thinking invincible.

Bravo
 
ok, so what if sharjeel met someone dubious? i am a very successful businessman and people want some time from me all the time and i therefore end up meeting dubious people all the time. question is, do i break the law after meeting bad people? No i dont. many times i dont even know i am meeting a bad person.

so the real question, did sharjeel do anything wrong.? did he fix matches? if he didnt, this is a BS case. plus how can you say with full guarantee that sharjeel knew he is meeting a dubious person.
 
Completely agree. Fixers should be banned for life. No mercy for anyone that brings shame to our team. Absolute no mercy.
 
ok, so what if sharjeel met someone dubious? i am a very successful businessman and people want some time from me all the time and i therefore end up meeting dubious people all the time. question is, do i break the law after meeting bad people? No i dont. many times i dont even know i am meeting a bad person.

so the real question, did sharjeel do anything wrong.? did he fix matches? if he didnt, this is a BS case. plus how can you say with full guarantee that sharjeel knew he is meeting a dubious person.
You are missing the point, if sharjeel met someone and found through the conversation that he is being asked to do something illegal, it is Sharjeel's job to notify authorities. Failure to do so is also a crime
 
Think its worth noting though that I doubt this is solely a PSL issue.

Take cricketers with zero attachment for the teams or players they play for and I think fixing could be a problem in other leagues as well, not just the PSL.

Whether its as endemic as in the PSL is the big question I suppose
 
Why can't everybody calm down?

The players are taught the rules. And from that point on, they are responsible for their conduct, and if they break the rules they deserve whatever they get.

One good thing about this incident is that all 5 players are 27 years old or older. It just reinforces why the best talent should be identified young and promoted - and educated - by the PCB from that point onwards.

But people need to stop blaming Amir / India / the ICC. The players are responsible for their actions.
 
Why can't everybody calm down?

The players are taught the rules. And from that point on, they are responsible for their conduct, and if they break the rules they deserve whatever they get.

One good thing about this incident is that all 5 players are 27 years old or older. It just reinforces why the best talent should be identified young and promoted - and educated - by the PCB from that point onwards.

But people need to stop blaming Amir / India / the ICC. The players are responsible for their actions.

You're right of course, ultimately the players are to blame. Education and whatever isn't a valid excuse here, because these guys were likely drilled on this before and told who to look out for and what to watch out for, and as well as that there have been several high profile cases.

Culture also doesn't stack here IMO. India,Bangladesh, Sri Lanka even South Africa, none of these countries are particularly high on the anti corruption index I imagine. And while some leagues (SA) have recently been in the light for this, and it exists no doubt in others IMO, its been committed by either random domestic no namers or retired internationals. Bar Ashraful I can't think of many internationals who've recently been caught up in this and Ashraful by a quick glance at his stats and the nickname Ashrafool given by BD'ers was hardly the sharpest tool in the shed. Yet in Pakistan it seems to be far more endemic than in any other country.

Have to ask why thats the case.
 
It won't reduce even 1%, trust me, unless the values are there - you can't fright someone out of crime. Among all probables, probably Sarjeel was the least expected to get involved for the golden future awaiting for him for best part of a decade.

Also, a punishment has to be justified - a life ban is like a death penalty for a player. You can't ban a player for life for manipulating few worthless T20 matches for franchise, which are corrupt itself & financed by some of the most corrupt people with their dirty money.

Whoever is caught will be prosecuted as per law & serve the punishment due as per the law - that should be the end of it. Otherwise, if you start to hang people for stealing a duck, still duck stealing won't stop, just the criminal caught red handed will pay undue penalty & others will become thinking invincible.

If you start hanging for duck stealing, it won't reduce duck stealing to zero, but there is absolutely no doubt that it will reduce it.

Life ban is surely a death penalty for a cricketer, but fixing is similar to murder. You can't do anything worse as cricketer. If some one fixes in PSL then they will surely not going to drop that habit in international. Life ban is fully justified.
 
If you start hanging for duck stealing, it won't reduce duck stealing to zero, but there is absolutely no doubt that it will reduce it.

Life ban is surely a death penalty for a cricketer, but fixing is similar to murder. You can't do anything worse as cricketer. If some one fixes in PSL then they will surely not going to drop that habit in international. Life ban is fully justified.

We don't even know if they were actually involve in fixing,maybe they just had made contacts with fixers.
 
We don't even know if they were actually involve in fixing,maybe they just had made contacts with fixers.

My comment is not about specific case. Just a general comment about not allowing fixers back. I was using this as an example and yah, wrong on my part to do so. Nothing is proven so far.
 
If you start hanging for duck stealing, it won't reduce duck stealing to zero, but there is absolutely no doubt that it will reduce it.

Life ban is surely a death penalty for a cricketer, but fixing is similar to murder. You can't do anything worse as cricketer. If some one fixes in PSL then they will surely not going to drop that habit in international. Life ban is fully justified.

That's why I said - let the administrators & law take care of the proceedings. Depending on their crime, they'll be punished - it's not about duck stealing, it's about weather stealing a duck is worthy of hanging or not.
 
That's why I said - let the administrators & law take care of the proceedings. Depending on their crime, they'll be punished - it's not about duck stealing, it's about weather stealing a duck is worthy of hanging or not.

Depends, it is a faberge duck?? Could have valuable eggs
 
I was just thinking - all 3 players are from IU. My dirty mind tells me that it can't a coincidence - can anyone brief us about the owners of IU? His/their profession, their social/political status, source of income, previous involvement in cricket ........

I can only say that the profile of BPL owners never gave me confidence.
 
So does that mean that murderers should not be executed? Should match/spot-fixers not be get a lifetime ban because players will do it anyway?

Why not just let them go for free then? The point is that a lifetime ban is a bigger deterrent than a 5 year ban.

Look Aamir's case is different. He served his time which both ICC and PCB agreed to. There was no justification to not select him ever again. Things would have been different if PCB had banned him for life.

And there is no such thing as a bigger or smaller deterrent. Execution is the highest form of punishment and yet people still commit these crimes. In fact, a lot of countries/states are reducing the number of executions because it has failed to lower the crime.

Long story short, regardless of Aamir was selected or not, this would have still happened.

If 5 years of ban that included 2 world cups and no income did not stop them, nothing else would have. This is strictly in context of Aamir's case. Butt and Asif are already serving an unofficial life ban. Did it help even a little bit?
 
It's like sending somebody back to jail after they have completed their sentence.

What kind of logic is that?

Hey Aamir, you are banned again because two new guys sold out.

Absolutely ridiculous and pathetic!
 
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