London, Birmingham or Bradford for a Muslim student?

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Hey guys, I am from India, planning to my M.Sc (Data Science/ Analytics/ Business Analytics) in the UK in 2022.

I shortlisted London, Birmingham and Bradford based on different criterias. People who live in the UK, can you help me decide which is the best option for a practicing Muslim student?

These are the things I am considering
- Affordable rent
- Halal food
- Muslim community and mosques
- Desi community
- Less Islamaphobia/ Racism
- Good opportunities for part time jobs
- Good opportunities for full time jobs post study in the field of Data/ Business Analytics

Also I am planning to get married a month before I leave. So, when I apply for my student visa, I'll still be single.

What's the best way to bring your family in the future?

Should I show them I am married before I go to the UK, or marry her in the UK?

Off these 3 cities (you can add few more if you feel so), it'll be helpful if you can add pros and cons of each.

I really appreciate your suggestions

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Also if you can give any suggestions regarding the universities, it'll be really helpful

 

[Shaddy86]

Affordable rent - London will be at least twice as expensive as others
- Halal food - All 3 locations
- Muslim community and mosques - All
- Desi community - more in Birmingham and Bradford but London's desi community is much better
- Less Islamaphobia/ Racism - London
- Good opportunities for part time jobs - London * 100
- Good opportunities for full time jobs post study in the field of Data/ Business Analytics - London way ahead

Overall London wins, I don't know why anyone would even consider Birmingham or Bradford when they have London as an option. You could compare Bradford and Birmingham but London is way ahead in future career prospect, community, life style, part time jobs etc.

 

[Giannis]

Never been to england but i'd choose bradford cause it's probably more cultured

 

[Shaddy86]

Also if you can give any suggestions regarding the universities, it'll be really helpful

I graduated from Brunel and did my masters at King's College. I could go to any university in London but I chose Brunel and I loved my time there and have since recommended 3/4 of my cousin's that have gone there and loved it. I hated King's in terms of social life especially for a desi and the time it took commute, one building campus etc. I would very highly recommend Brunel.

 

[Shaddy86]

Never been to england but i'd choose bradford cause it's probably more cultured

You might as well stay in Pakistan/India if you wanna come to Bradford for culture. Sometimes you gotta get out of your own community to get ahead in life.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Affordable rent - London will be at least twice as expensive as others
- Halal food - All 3 locations
- Muslim community and mosques - All
- Desi community - more in Birmingham and Bradford but London's desi community is much better
- Less Islamaphobia/ Racism - London
- Good opportunities for part time jobs - London * 100
- Good opportunities for full time jobs post study in the field of Data/ Business Analytics - London way ahead

Overall London wins, I don't know why anyone would even consider Birmingham or Bradford when they have London as an option. You could compare Bradford and Birmingham but London is way ahead in future career prospect, community, life style, part time jobs etc.

Your answers were really helpful, I appreciate. What do you think of doing my study in Bradford/ Birmingham (as rent is less), then move to London after my study (as we'd be allowed to work full time coz of PSW). Do you think it's a good option, if not, why do you think so.

Also the average pay for PT jobs, is it the same across England, or higher in London compared to other cities. Imagine I work for 4 hrs at TESCO in Birmingham, will the pay be same as 4 hrs at TESCO in London?

 

[Giannis]

You might as well stay in Pakistan/India if you wanna come to Bradford for culture. Sometimes you gotta get out of your own community to get ahead in life.

Lol I was born and raised in America, I've mostly been around non-desis lmao. Don't tell a Pakistani-American we ain't whitewashed enough.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

I graduated from Brunel and did my masters at King's College. I could go to any university in London but I chose Brunel and I loved my time there and have since recommended 3/4 of my cousin's that have gone there and loved it. I hated King's in terms of social life especially for a desi and the time it took commute, one building campus etc. I would very highly recommend Brunel.

Haven't heard of it, will check it out for sure

 

[Adil_94]

Im from Bradford so i would say in terms of affordable rent Bradford will be the cheapest to rent out of those 3 cities. Halal food is readily available in all 3 cities though Bradford has the best variety and options when it comes to Desi Food and Halal Food. In the city centre its easier to find Halal Food than Non Halal in Bradford.

There is a very large Pakistani Muslim community in Bradford and its the smallest City out of the 3 so the Muslim community feels more visible. Tho Bradford does have an issue with informal segregation the City is divided demographically between Whites and Pakistanis. N racism is an issue despite the high number of Muslims . Bradford is quite an economically depressed city so job opportunities arent as good compared to Birmingham or London. It has an infamous reputation for having a lot of dodgy businesses and drug dealing.

The Muslim community in Bradford is dominated by People from Mirpur and Punjab id say Birmingham and London have more diverse Muslim communities esp London.

London is probably the most accepting place in terms of people of all backgrounds and religions

Id say in terms of racism London would be the best but in London u wont really get that sense of a community because it is so big.

In Birmingham and Bradford there will be more sense of a community.

But in terms of job opportunities and for your career in Data Analytics. London will have the most opportunities in that field followed by Birmingham and then Bradford at the bottom.

You could try looking for data analyst jobs in Leeds which is 20 mins away from Bradford or Manchester which is 1 hour. They are bigger cities with lot more opportunity in that field.

London would be the most expensive but it does have a very diverse Muslim community there. More likely to find people from.your background in India . And also the best for career i would say.

Bradford University has one of the top 10 Business schools in the UK.

London will have the best range of universities also

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

I graduated from Brunel and did my masters at King's College. I could go to any university in London but I chose Brunel and I loved my time there and have since recommended 3/4 of my cousin's that have gone there and loved it. I hated King's in terms of social life especially for a desi and the time it took commute, one building campus etc. I would very highly recommend Brunel.

One really important question I've is
Pros and Cons of Full time and Part time.

I can see with part time you can stay longer in the UK(hence can explore more job opportunities) and also you're allowed to work Full time. Whereas as for full time study, we're allowed to work only part time.

What would u suggest, and why do most students choose full time over part time(assuming fee is the same for FT and PT)

 

[Itachi]

I never understood this requirement of Desi community. Even when I was in hostel, I avoided Desis because when you put too much people in a small place, it leads too much of dramas. If one could mingle with local students, then it's far beneficial than staying around Desi community.

 

[Adil_94]

The pay for jobs in London is more they have a London livinh wage because cost of living is so high. In London on average say if u were to rent your own apartment it would cost u minimum around 1200-1500 gbp n thats without bills. Somewhere like Bradford u could rent a 5 bedroom family home with that amount.

Ive lived near London for the last 2.5 years since leaving Bradford and whilst i prefer London better more open minded people. More diversity variety. Cost of living is so high. Property prices are ridiculous So u may have to suffer for a couple of years financially unless u have parents help
[MENTION=151013]Babar_Azam_fan[/MENTION]

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

The pay for jobs in London is more they have a London livinh wage because cost of living is so high. In London on average say if u were to rent your own apartment it would cost u minimum around 1200-1500 gbp n thats without bills. Somewhere like Bradford u could rent a 5 bedroom family home with that amount.

Ive lived near London for the last 2.5 years since leaving Bradford and whilst i prefer London better more open minded people. More diversity variety. Cost of living is so high. Property prices are ridiculous So u may have to suffer for a couple of years financially unless u have parents help
[MENTION=151013]Babar_Azam_fan[/MENTION]

That makes sense. I appreciate

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

I never understood this requirement of Desi community. Even when I was in hostel, I avoided Desis because when you put too much people in a small place, it leads too much of dramas. If one could mingle with local students, then it's far beneficial than staying around Desi community.

I can understand your point. Tbh I myself don't prefer living with the desi community. But being a muslim and new to the place you do need a desi community

-Halal food access (can't eat haram)
-Desi community means more mosques

 

[Adil_94]

I did study at Bradford Uni it has like 3 different Islamic societies if u are religious maybe look into Unis with the best ISOCs [MENTION=151013]Babar_Azam_fan[/MENTION]

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=151013]Babar_Azam_fan[/MENTION]

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

I did study at Bradford Uni it has like 3 different Islamic societies if u are religious maybe look into Unis with the best ISOCs [MENTION=151013]Babar_Azam_fan[/MENTION]

Oh thanks for ur information. Will look it up.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

If someone can highlight the pros and cons of the FT and the PT study, it'll be really helpful

 

[Thulsa]

London - there is no comparison. The quality of the universities, not all granted, is a lot higher - the facilities are better, the faculty is drastically better and you will be exposed to more cutting edge opportunities. Bradford and Birmingham are not even close.

If management consultancy is your thing - then Bain/McK/BCG offer more internships for London based university students than any other. Ditto for the lower tier firms but their intake is higher.

The whole point of going to university, I hope in your case anyway, is to give yourself the best opportunities in life - if that’s the case and the UK is where you want to go, outside of Oxbridge, it’s London.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

London - there is no comparison. The quality of the universities, not all granted, is a lot higher - the facilities are better, the faculty is drastically better and you will be exposed to more cutting edge opportunities. Bradford and Birmingham are not even close.

If management consultancy is your thing - then Bain/McK/BCG offer more internships for London based university students than any other. Ditto for the lower tier firms but their intake is higher.

The whole point of going to university, I hope in your case anyway, is to give yourself the best opportunities in life - if that’s the case and the UK is where you want to go, outside of Oxbridge, it’s London.

I agree with what you say, I appreciate

 

[Thulsa]

To add - the quality of students generally is of a higher Calibre, and that peer relationship will help bring out the best in you. If you’re surrounded by people in lectures that are not interested in working -it drags the overall quality/learning potential down - whereas if you’re surrounded by people that want to do well and embrace working together - it will encourage you to thrive.

So my advice - don’t see comfort or solace in what you have always known - be bold and step out of your comfort zone and give yourself the best possible chance to be everything you can be.

 

[the Great Khan]

Hey guys, I am from India, planning to my M.Sc (Data Science/ Analytics/ Business Analytics) in the UK in 2022.

I shortlisted London, Birmingham and Bradford based on different criterias. People who live in the UK, can you help me decide which is the best option for a practicing Muslim student?

These are the things I am considering
- Affordable rent-Bradford and Birmingham
- Halal food- All three
- Muslim community and mosques - All
- Desi community - All more spread out in london though.
- Less Islamaphobia/ Racism - London
- Good opportunities for part time jobs - London
- Good opportunities for full time jobs post study in the field of Data/ Business Analytics - London

Also I am planning to get married a month before I leave. So, when I apply for my student visa, I'll still be single.

What's the best way to bring your family in the future?

Its not easy anymore. They have made it really hard. I would suggest you check the www.gov.uk to find the latest immigration information.

Should I show them I am married before I go to the UK, or marry her in the UK?

inmho probably better to get married here in the uk. As you will not be a citizen so cannot apply for a spousal visa. I would check the immigration websites before you make a decision.

Off these 3 cities (you can add few more if you feel so), it'll be helpful if you can add pros and cons of each.

I would also suggest Manchester as its got a very large asian Muslim community and is cheaper than London. For student life alone Leicester is also a good place for Indians, its cheap, rent is cheap, a vibrant Indian Muslim community, plenty of masjids, halal food. Downside is finding permanent work but birmingham is only 45 mins away on a train and London only an hour (although train tickets are expensive for non students)

Also Leeds is an up and coming tech city lots of jobs and a decent sized Muslim community.

You can also move to places like Crawley that are small towns but have good links to London for work and study. They tend to have small Muslim communities but the transport links make them attractive.

I really appreciate your suggestions

what Universities are you looking at? Check the Uniguide online and other websites.
I have worked for many years in the sector and understand how they operate.
My suggestion is you ensure you do your costings with regards to rent and finding a PT job. It is very hard because of covid. Most students end up becoming deliveroo drivers, uber, or working in local fast food takeaways or tesco etc.

It is not easy. Don't think the streets are paved with Gold. It is very very tough for black and brown immigrants in the uk at the moment. Racism is rampant and work places are looking after british citizens more.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

what Universities are you looking at? Check the Uniguide online and other websites.
I have worked for many years in the sector and understand how they operate.
My suggestion is you ensure you do your costings with regards to rent and finding a PT job. It is very hard because of covid. Most students end up becoming deliveroo drivers, uber, or working in local fast food takeaways or tesco etc.

It is not easy. Don't think the streets are paved with Gold. It is very very tough for black and brown immigrants in the uk at the moment. Racism is rampant and work places are looking after british citizens more.

I am still exploring the universities, one which I've shortlisted (amongst many) is the "University of Hertfordshire"

It's outside of London(hence cheap rent), but just 25 mins from London, which can help in regards to the PT and FT job opportunities.

Any comments on that?

 

[mazkhan]

Also to study in UK as an international student is a very expensive undertaking

Also take into account covid a lot of intl students have left because of lockdown and there is no guarantee lockdowns are finished in UK.

What are your fees for your msc .
For kings college data science msc 1 year duration
is over 27000 gbp just the fees for intl student .

 

[mazkhan]

I am still exploring the universities, one which I've shortlisted (amongst many) is the "University of Hertfordshire"

It's outside of London(hence cheap rent), but just 25 mins from London, which can help in regards to the PT and FT job opportunities.

Any comments on that?

University of Hertfordshire is hatfield theres hatfield business Park so you can maybe get a warehouse job since you are student you will be restricted to 20 hours theres ocado , arla foods , dhl in that location I believe its a physical job so there will be lodes of east Europeans in these warehouse jobs .
Some takeaways in hatfield st albans area so you could do deliveries maybe or do deljveroo ubereats

You won't even need to go to London

But the train from hatfield will take you to kings Cross london

 

[saeedhk]

Never been to england but i'd choose bradford cause it's probably more cultured

It is the opposite. Bradford is pretty bad. The last time I went there, I saw little Pakistani kids running around roadside, people drying their laundry outside their homes and teenagers loitering around at corners. The whole place was in a state of dilapidation.Not to mention that the crime rate there is pretty high.

 

[Zaz]

Go london

It has better educational and job opportunities than the others

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They all have their unique qualities and in terms of living near muslims/mosques/halal food they all tick that box quite nicely.

London is quite expensive to live but there is always lots to do and some people like the hustle and bustle. Some areas of London you pay a lot of money for poor standard of housing.

Bradford is a bit more run down but there is a strong desi community. The uni is actually pretty good to but the job opportunities are less than London.

Birmingham would probably be my pick. You get the best of both worlds in terms of community and cost of living plus the universities ( Birmingham, Aston) are quite highly rated.

 

[Markhor]

You are certainly not going to get affordable rent in London. It's a bustling international city with the best job prospects of the three cities, but cost of living is eyewateringly high.

I studied at Bradford and have some family there, nice uni and halal food will certainly not be in shortage, but lack of job prospects

Haven't been to Birmingham but you'll probably get the best balance of the three cities shortlisted.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Thanks for ur suggestions guys. For now I can draw the conclusion, the best option would be Birmingham. Cheaper than London, but better opportunities than Bradford.

Also, moving to London after the studies would be affordable (as we can work FT).

For now I am keeping the options open for London and Birmingham. Would do further research on that.

 

[Halaribo]

Bradford should not even be part of this conversation. You're better off staying in India and then coming to London for work.

London and Brum are fine.

London the best option in UK for career progression and pay.

 

[Tubs]

Depends on the unis. The best uni out of them would be Imperial College London, if the extortionate price is okay with you, definitely go there. University of Birmingham and University College London are both very fine unis, and I can speak about UoB from experience as I did my postgrad there- very good for CompSci-based courses. All 3 locations fulfil your religious/cultural requirements.

I will say, data science is a better degree than data analytics which is a better degree than business intelligence. While I am more in the AI/Robotics side, I dabble in data science a little and am learning some at the moment, I really recommend a more mathematical course, which goes into some level of detail about machine learning algorithms and models (random forest, support vector machine, linear regression, PCA, neural networks, reinforcement learning, etc) and has some practical components (like practical projects, teaching you tools such as PyTorch, TensorFlow, Keras, Theano, maybe some SQL and some big data software such as hadoop, spark, big query etc). So perhaps go for the best course rather than the location.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

I work in a similar field in IT and live in greater London area. I would say right now, your probably ve better career development opportunities in India than in the UK.

Here the Job market is bust due to pandemic and Brexit and due to Brexit the chances of economic recovery are slow. If you just want a masters degree from a foreign university, there are better & cheaper options in Europe.

I would say find a part time distance learning Masters degree program, stay in India and find a graduate job there in your field. After 4-5 years when you ve a masters degree + professional experience, it will be much more easier for you to immigrate to a western country and will ve a well defined career path. These guarantees do not exist if you come to the UK on a student visa.

All the best!

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

Depends on the unis. The best uni out of them would be Imperial College London, if the extortionate price is okay with you, definitely go there. University of Birmingham and University College London are both very fine unis, and I can speak about UoB from experience as I did my postgrad there- very good for CompSci-based courses. All 3 locations fulfil your religious/cultural requirements.

I will say, data science is a better degree than data analytics which is a better degree than business intelligence. While I am more in the AI/Robotics side, I dabble in data science a little and am learning some at the moment, I really recommend a more mathematical course, which goes into some level of detail about machine learning algorithms and models (random forest, support vector machine, linear regression, PCA, neural networks, reinforcement learning, etc) and has some practical components (like practical projects, teaching you tools such as PyTorch, TensorFlow, Keras, Theano, maybe some SQL and some big data software such as hadoop, spark, big query etc). So perhaps go for the best course rather than the location.

Thanks for ur suggestions. As weird as it might sound, I already did a one year FT PG Diploma in Data Science, and working as a Data Scientist since 2 years. So, I am aware of that side. Also having worked as a Data Scientist, I feel I am more a Business/ Consulting guy, than a hardcore coding geek.

Hence, looking into Data/ Business Analytics

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

People suggesting London, any idea about UEL. Your thoughts would be appreciated

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

People suggesting London, any idea about UEL. Your thoughts would be appreciated

UEL is in the lowest rung of British universities. The only good things abt it are:

1) its campuses are in relatively cheaper parts of London.
2) it has “London” in title. So despite being a low ranked univ, it still will ve some sort name recognition abroad.

There is lot of competition in London in terms of Univ graduate placements, so aim for a better known one if you want to target London’s job market.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

People suggesting London, any idea about UEL. Your thoughts would be appreciated

Its among the lowest ranked universities in the UK bro. If you are coming all the way from India to go there it will not be worth it for you.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

UEL is in the lowest rung of British universities. The only good things abt it are:

1) its campuses are in relatively cheaper parts of London.
2) it has “London” in title. So despite being a low ranked univ, it still will ve some sort name recognition abroad.

There is lot of competition in London in terms of Univ graduate placements, so aim for a better known one if you want to target London’s job market.

Its among the lowest ranked universities in the UK bro. If you are coming all the way from India to go there it will not be worth it for you.

Thanks for the information. It was helpful

 

[Slog]

I’m a bit confused as to why are people making it seem that getting a job in London post uni will be hard if not based in London?

UK isn’t a huge country that you can’t make day trips to London for interviews.

 

[JaDed]

I’m a bit confused as to why are people making it seem that getting a job in London post uni will be hard if not based in London?

UK isn’t a huge country that you can’t make day trips to London for interviews.

Lol exactly, I was like how does that affect job prospects studying in different cities?

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Because the internships, job placement fairs, part time jobs etc are all localized. All these help you make connections and in-roads for a Full time job post graduation.

Remember that there isn’t much industry left in the UK, other than some services industry in and around London. UK as a country is in decline, so even locals are finding it hard to find good jobs.

 

[JaDed]

Because the internships, job placement fairs, part time jobs etc are all localized. All these help you make connections and in-roads for a Full time job post graduation.

Remember that there isn’t much industry left in the UK, other than some services industry in and around London. UK as a country is in decline, so even locals are finding it hard to find good jobs.

Even college pass outs??

 

[James]

London is a cool place, but in the end it just gets way too expensive and exhausting for what it is imo. Most of the people I know who moved to London for Uni / after Uni ended up coming back up North in the end. Though it is of course the capital city and a high-ranking global centre, and is great to visit for a long (and costly!) weekend.

Bradford has a decent uni and cracking places to eat, but post-graduation there will not be enough job opportunities in the immediate area, so you would be looking at a commute or relocation to either Leeds or Manchester.

Birmingham however is a great city and a well-balanced all-rounder. It has everything you will need. It costs a bit more than Bradford, though nowhere near as much as London. It is also connected very well to every other major city by the trains and motorways. You can for example get to London, Manchester, Sheffield or Leeds in less than 2 hours. I would go for Brum.

 

[Thulsa]

London is a cool place, but in the end it just gets way too expensive and exhausting for what it is imo. Most of the people I know who moved to London for Uni / after Uni ended up coming back up North in the end. Though it is of course the capital city and a high-ranking global centre, and is great to visit for a long (and costly!) weekend.

Bradford has a decent uni and cracking places to eat, but post-graduation there will not be enough job opportunities in the immediate area, so you would be looking at a commute or relocation to either Leeds or Manchester.

Birmingham however is a great city and a well-balanced all-rounder. It has everything you will need. It costs a bit more than Bradford, though nowhere near as much as London. It is also connected very well to every other major city by the trains and motorways. You can for example get to London, Manchester, Sheffield or Leeds in less than 2 hours. I would go for Brum.

He mentioned data consultancy - and B’ham or any place out of London is pointless. If you’re content with mediocrity, fine but if you want to Excel - it’s London.

UCL and LSE have some exceptional degrees in Economics and data science which is a very ‘desirable’ degree if you want to progress into an applied career. If you’re less data science than you will be hard pressed to get a better course than advanced econometrics at LSE and UCL.

Where I work, McKinsey, we have maybe 12 interns in our ‘expert practise’ and barring Oxbridge every single one for the past 4 years has been from a London university. As it’s the main hunting ground for our graduates in the UK.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Even college pass outs??

Yes of course.

There are many international students in London, who ve to return to their native countries after graduation. Every Univ and college is full of Chinese and Indian students. At the same time, the UK job market is down the drain right now, thanks to Brex(sh)it.

 

[rockyboy2018]

London seemed like Little India. Homeless people are sleeping off near train stations. Every store you enter, you meet an Indian guy. Cramped and crowded.

I attended a conference conducted by British professors. Their slides looked quite childish. So many basic errors. Professors were using their hands even though they had a pointer.

I hope you are entering the UK in a halal way and will not haram your student visa. For me, this is the most important thing than finding out Halal food and Hala mosques.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

London seemed like Little India. Homeless people are sleeping off near train stations. Every store you enter, you meet an Indian guy. Cramped and crowded.

I attended a conference conducted by British professors. Their slides looked quite childish. So many basic errors. Professors were using their hands even though they had a pointer.

I hope you are entering the UK in a halal way and will not haram your student visa. For me, this is the most important thing than finding out Halal food and Hala mosques.

Haha, so far I've been very halal, even though I've had quite a few chances. Hopefully it'll be the same even if I move to the Uk

 

[Saj]

- Affordable rent - Bradford
- Halal food - All
- Muslim community and mosques - All
- Desi community - All if you live in the right area
- Less Islamaphobia/ Racism - You will get some in all 3
- Good opportunities for part time jobs - All
- Good opportunities for full time jobs post study in the field of Data/ Business Analytics - London/Birmingham probably best

 

[KingKhanWC]

London is the greatest city on Earth but far too expensive. If you can afford it , no brainer.

Birmingham has more to offer than Bradford in terms of things to do to. Its also in the middle, you can travel around. Bradford has improved too.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He mentioned data consultancy - and B’ham or any place out of London is pointless. If you’re content with mediocrity, fine but if you want to Excel - it’s London.

UCL and LSE have some exceptional degrees in Economics and data science which is a very ‘desirable’ degree if you want to progress into an applied career. If you’re less data science than you will be hard pressed to get a better course than advanced econometrics at LSE and UCL.

Where I work, McKinsey, we have maybe 12 interns in our ‘expert practise’ and barring Oxbridge every single one for the past 4 years has been from a London university. As it’s the main hunting ground for our graduates in the UK.

B4 consultancy are arguably the most difficult companies to get jobs in. I don't think you can extrapolate too much from your experience at McKinsey as its very much the "elite" tier of jobs and will therefore only recruit from unis like LSE and UCL.

For most other companies that are perhaps less prestigious than Mckinsey, but nevertheless still highly rated employers such as the B4 accounting firms and companies like Accenture there are great opportunities outside London.

 

[Thulsa]

B4 consultancy are arguably the most difficult companies to get jobs in. I don't think you can extrapolate too much from your experience at McKinsey as its very much the "elite" tier of jobs and will therefore only recruit from unis like LSE and UCL.

For most other companies that are perhaps less prestigious than Mckinsey, but nevertheless still highly rated employers such as the B4 accounting firms and companies like Accenture there are great opportunities outside London.

Accenture/PWC/KPMG/Deloitte I wouldn’t recommend as they are just sausage factories - maybe a small % go onto doing something special but it’s typically 6 months in Reading doing the same thing over and over. But even they will do their biggest career fairies and events in London.

You also have some niche firms located around the Marylebone (OLiver W for example) area and some great data companies around Paddington (red kite) - and it doesn’t change the fact that the universities, courses on offer, faculty of staff and overall student calibre is far higher in London (unless you go to a dive like West Mid) and that amounts to a lot.

I’m not saying Birmingham or Bradford are worse places to be - but from this OP’s perspective, if he/she wants to give themself the best chance to be successful - it’s a no brainier. Is it guaranteed? Of course not - us you give yourself the next chance.

 

[Thulsa]

But you give yourself the best chance* (typos above in my last sentence)

 

[Shaddy86]

One really important question I've is
Pros and Cons of Full time and Part time.

I can see with part time you can stay longer in the UK(hence can explore more job opportunities) and also you're allowed to work Full time. Whereas as for full time study, we're allowed to work only part time.

What would u suggest, and why do most students choose full time over part time(assuming fee is the same for FT and PT)

I have no idea why people would prefer part time over full time. If you're a young student looking to get ahead in life then fill time is the way to go, just be done with it. But if you have a family to support back home or even yourself with fee, living costs then I guess part time could be a feasible option. Another thing I'd like to recommend is the career placement year in your 3rd year. This is where I messed up, I didn't do a placement year and just wanted to get my degree done but that makes you far less employable. So definitely go for a placement year which turns a 3 year degree to 4 years but it's worth every bit. The quality of universities are much better in London, better career prospect, better part-time work opportunities however the higher rent and living cost of London can be the deciding factor for many overseas students. In any scenario make sure you're able to support yourself in terms of fees at least if not the living costs because under the circumstances these days it would be very difficult for you to earn tuition fee as well as living costs from working full-time let alone part-time. Make sure you have the full 3 years tuition fee as a backup before you board that plane otherwise things could get really difficult.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

I have no idea why people would prefer part time over full time. If you're a young student looking to get ahead in life then fill time is the way to go, just be done with it. But if you have a family to support back home or even yourself with fee, living costs then I guess part time could be a feasible option. Another thing I'd like to recommend is the career placement year in your 3rd year. This is where I messed up, I didn't do a placement year and just wanted to get my degree done but that makes you far less employable. So definitely go for a placement year which turns a 3 year degree to 4 years but it's worth every bit. The quality of universities are much better in London, better career prospect, better part-time work opportunities however the higher rent and living cost of London can be the deciding factor for many overseas students. In any scenario make sure you're able to support yourself in terms of fees at least if not the living costs because under the circumstances these days it would be very difficult for you to earn tuition fee as well as living costs from working full-time let alone part-time. Make sure you have the full 3 years tuition fee as a backup before you board that plane otherwise things could get really difficult.

Part time because you can work alongside it. In real life, work experience is much more important than just degrees.

Nobody will employ you if you only turn up with a piece of paper in hand. Data science and AI are the buzz words now a days, so everybody and their dog is doing some degree or certification in it. Market is already saturated, so what you need is work experience.

 

[Thulsa]

Part time because you can work alongside it. In real life, work experience is much more important than just degrees.

Nobody will employ you if you only turn up with a piece of paper in hand. Data science and AI are the buzz words now a days, so everybody and their dog is doing some degree or certification in it. Market is already saturated, so what you need is work experience.

Wrong - especially considering the field he wants to go into. A good degree, from a good university, with good opportunities/connections to employers is worth far more than a degree and working in McDonald’s. The experience has to be relevant.

Experience is key yes but not at the expense of education as a graduate - this is where internships over the summer are priceless. And what location offers the most relevant? London.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Who said work in Mc Donalds?

Graduate degrees are not the door opener that you are dreaming them to be. All hiring firms want someone with “prior experience in a related domain”, so its much more better to work for a few years in your field after the undergraduate before doing any masters.

I ve been there and done that, so speaking from experience.

 

[Thulsa]

And I’ve been building teams/‘departments/capabilities at a global level for over 15 years and I stand by my assertion.

If you take a gap between an undergraduate degree and a postgrad - you are setting a much higher bar for qualifying for consideration let alone acceptance in the hiring process. Which is why I said ‘relevant’. If I look at my firm which prides itself on a meticulous process and degree of scrutiny, the new hires are seldom the ones with a gap as you have described (those that do have done time at a good firm) but those with a good internship under their belt but the benefit of age on their side.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Come and see how many graduate degree holders have to return to their countries after completing the Masters. Not just in UK but also other western countries.

IT job market is over flooded with Indian immigrants, who are there on a point based immigration system (so don’t require any sponsorship) and already have a degree + work experience from back home + are willing to work for low starting salaries. Doing a masters straight after undergraduate is a bad idea in most scenarios.

 

[silentkiller187]

Wrong - especially considering the field he wants to go into. A good degree, from a good university, with good opportunities/connections to employers is worth far more than a degree and working in McDonald’s. The experience has to be relevant.

Experience is key yes but not at the expense of education as a graduate - this is where internships over the summer are priceless. And what location offers the most relevant? London.

Whilst i agree with this assertation, i think mostnfirms value experience much more than a piece of paper these days, unless the role is very specialist, and unfortunately the opportunities for these specialist roles are few and far between at the moment in the UK. Its a dying market so you cant just expect to be handed a job once you pass your degree, i know so many students from here and back home with masters degrees going to waste.

I've worked on many projects in the past and i always go for experience over qualifications, in most industries its a no brainer. The days of being told to get a degree or you will be working in mcdonalds are long gone, and i even recommend to students to find alternative routes to market these days to avoid the debts hanging over your head before you even start your career, its just not worth the paper its written on anymore, unless your doing a very specialized subject.

 

[Thulsa]

Come and see how many graduate degree holders have to return to their countries after completing the Masters. Not just in UK but also other western countries.

IT job market is over flooded with Indian immigrants, who are there on a point based immigration system (so don’t require any sponsorship) and already have a degree + work experience from back home + are willing to work for low starting salaries. Doing a masters straight after undergraduate is a bad idea in most scenarios.

Who said anything about IT? The OP specifically called out data science/business analytics. It might me tempting to tar this with the same ‘IT brush’ but that means you don’t understand the differences - it’s my area of expertise and I know it very well given my position and with whom.

First you need the qualification, and a post grad will dive into far more topics of relevance than an under grad ever can. You then need the right opportunity which is where the right internship is priceless.

Secondly there is being considered and thriving - the latter is about the blend between technical aptitude and communication and influencing ability - and that is where a London based university with all the aforementioned benefits shines.

 

[Thulsa]

If the topic is about an experienced hire, than practical hands in experience naturally is more prevalent as you start to put mileage between employment and experience. But the OP is not an experienced professional - he is a student that is considering where to go to further his subject matter interest and I have responded to that in kind.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

In most places Data Science/AI is considered a sub-domain of IT. Its just has bit more theoretical knowledge in stats/Maths but all the tools used for wrangling, querying and translating data require typical IT skills.

And lastly a degree without experience is not much worth now a days. There is proliferation of degree awarding universities now a days and it really is no longer a differentiating factor. Just google it to see what i mean.

You dont need a degree to grasp concepts of DS either, as there are many online courses and certs out there (coursera, edx....). These are deemed more than sufficient by the employers, provided you ve a relevant undergraduate degree.

 

[Shaddy86]

Yes the work experience is as important as degree but you're not going to get an IT job with your degree whether you're studying part-time or full-time. That's where the placement year comes in handy. Most students that do work along their studies end up in places like McDonald's and that does them no good although they're more than happy that they're earning something. Find me one overseas student that has a proper IT job along with their degree.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

For people who want to know further about me.

I have experience as a Data Analyst/ Scientist (~3 years)

 

[mazkhan]

Why don't you look for employment vacancies in the middle east , uae is very accommodating towards indian professionals .

Since you have a degree and experience maybe you could try the USA for job opportunities there is a lot of indian professionals in silicon Valley.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Accenture/PWC/KPMG/Deloitte I wouldn’t recommend as they are just sausage factories - maybe a small % go onto doing something special but it’s typically 6 months in Reading doing the same thing over and over. But even they will do their biggest career fairies and events in London.

You also have some niche firms located around the Marylebone (OLiver W for example) area and some great data companies around Paddington (red kite) - and it doesn’t change the fact that the universities, courses on offer, faculty of staff and overall student calibre is far higher in London (unless you go to a dive like West Mid) and that amounts to a lot.

I’m not saying Birmingham or Bradford are worse places to be - but from this OP’s perspective, if he/she wants to give themself the best chance to be successful - it’s a no brainier. Is it guaranteed? Of course not - us you give yourself the next chance.

Thats quite interesting. I worked in consultancy for a short period and then actually moved into B4 accountancy firms before going back into Engineering. I found the intensity of the consultancy lifestyle not suitable for me but I guess that's why they are focussed on high-calibre high-intensity individuals such as those from the Unis you mentioned.

Do you think in the post covid world the major consultancy ( BCG, Mckinsey etc) will be as focussed in London?

 

[Thulsa]

Thats quite interesting. I worked in consultancy for a short period and then actually moved into B4 accountancy firms before going back into Engineering. I found the intensity of the consultancy lifestyle not suitable for me but I guess that's why they are focussed on high-calibre high-intensity individuals such as those from the Unis you mentioned.

Do you think in the post covid world the major consultancy ( BCG, Mckinsey etc) will be as focussed in London?

I can’t speak for Bain but certainly McK and BCG won’t change. Our intake in my area of the business is higher than it has been for the past few years. And there is nothing different about this from a graduate level all the way up to senior manager (expert stream). You could argue that there is an abundance of candidates owing to the job market but we haven’t lapsed on standards. Internships however are up significantly - which isn’t surprising as most firms want to be seen to be doing their part to help the workforce of tomorrow today.

On lifestyle it’s horses for courses - some like it, some don’t, others have changing circumstances (marriage, children) but that’s why the exit opportunities are often so lucrative.

 

[Saj]

There's something very appealing about Bradford. It's almost like going back in time

Friendly Northern folk, great eating places and very good for desi clothes shops.

One negative point though - the standard of driving

 

[James]

There's something very appealing about Bradford. It's almost like going back in time

Friendly Northern folk, great eating places and very good for desi clothes shops.

One negative point though - the standard of driving

The driving is one thing, and the road network is really bad as well. Always found driving in, out, through and around Bradford very taxing. City centre loops may always take some getting used to, but Bradford’s version seems to be particularly confusing and bizarre.

 

[Robert]

London is a cool place, but in the end it just gets way too expensive and exhausting for what it is imo. Most of the people I know who moved to London for Uni / after Uni ended up coming back up North in the end. Though it is of course the capital city and a high-ranking global centre, and is great to visit for a long (and costly!) weekend.

Bradford has a decent uni and cracking places to eat, but post-graduation there will not be enough job opportunities in the immediate area, so you would be looking at a commute or relocation to either Leeds or Manchester.

Birmingham however is a great city and a well-balanced all-rounder. It has everything you will need. It costs a bit more than Bradford, though nowhere near as much as London. It is also connected very well to every other major city by the trains and motorways. You can for example get to London, Manchester, Sheffield or Leeds in less than 2 hours. I would go for Brum.

I would concur. After decades as a Londoner we moved away, worn out by the crowds and high prices.

I attended Bradford Uni and loved the place but it doesn’t have the same attractions as London, and is cold in winter.

Birmingham is a good sized city with some of the attractions of London, and more chilled out people.

 

[Saj]

The driving is one thing, and the road network is really bad as well. Always found driving in, out, through and around Bradford very taxing. City centre loops may always take some getting used to, but Bradford’s version seems to be particularly confusing and bizarre.

But the London traffic is on a different level. It's chaos. I've never seen so much road rage in all my life.

 

[prakash]

OP, you never said why you chose England? USA is the perfect place if you want to get a degree from a western univ and want to work full time. With so many univs, the hub for technology and not very difficult to find jobs anywhere you want, I think USA is the best option for you unless you have some fascination for England.

In US, there are mosques and halal restaurants in every major city. USA is a huge country with thriving Indian/muslim community, less/no racism, very high salaries, option to work/live in warm places... too many pluses to list.

 

[Robert]

But the London traffic is on a different level. It's chaos. I've never seen so much road rage in all my life.

This was part of my reason for leaving London. On the roads, on the trains, you have to fight for every square inch of space.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This was part of my reason for leaving London. On the roads, on the trains, you have to fight for every square inch of space.

Every cubic inch of space you mean.

 

[Thulsa]

This was part of my reason for leaving London. On the roads, on the trains, you have to fight for every square inch of space.

The question was where to study to further the OP’s studies and career. What on earth has hectic driving or congested transport have to do with anything?


OP - what is it that matters to you? The best place to further your education and henceforth career? Or moving to someplace comfortable.

Yes London is more expensive and congested (on driving I beg to differ - ethnic-majority towns tend to have the worst drivers I have ever seen) but it’s also got the best universities and career opportunities.

 

[Bi_Jamalo]

Poor road infrastructure, congestion (and its surcharge) + the overpriced public transport. All directly affect the quality of life. When i went to London once for some work meeting, i really was shocked to see the looooong queue outside waterloo Tube station, just to catch the underground subway.

Just getting from east London to west London takes more time, than going from West London to Birmingham. Therefore many live on the outskirts of the along the commuter rail lines.

 

[Saj]

This was part of my reason for leaving London. On the roads, on the trains, you have to fight for every square inch of space.

The tubes. Don't get me started.

People packed in like sardines. Ridiculous.

 

[Kroll]

The 3 cities listed are all good, but I would honestly focus on the best institution for your studies as nearly all the major UK cities have sizeable Muslim populations and facilities.

This is because you will only get one crack at it so best choosing your place of study over anything else. London is obviously the glamour city but you would need to factor in the higher living costs.

I know some of these you haven't mentioned, but Manchester, Bradford/Leeds, Birmingham and Glasgow are all top student destinations which would cater for Muslim students comfortably.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

The 3 cities listed are all good, but I would honestly focus on the best institution for your studies as nearly all the major UK cities have sizeable Muslim populations and facilities.

This is because you will only get one crack at it so best choosing your place of study over anything else. London is obviously the glamour city but you would need to factor in the higher living costs.

I know some of these you haven't mentioned, but Manchester, Bradford/Leeds, Birmingham and Glasgow are all top student destinations which would cater for Muslim students comfortably.

Thanks for the information