'London effect' strongest for Pakistani pupils

[TSA321]

https://www.tes.com/news/london-effect-strongest-pakistani-pupils
Pakistani children in London make significantly more progress than their peers elsewhere in the country, research finds

Children in London make more progress on average than those in other parts of the country – and new analysis reveals that the difference is particularly stark for Pakistani pupils.

Researchers Natasha Plaister and Dave Thomson, from Education Datalab, looked at key stage 4 progress scores in London and the rest of England, comparing different groups of Asian students, and other ethnic groups.

They found that, for all of these groups, progress in London was higher than in the rest of England, but the difference was much larger for students from a Pakistani background.

The researchers looked at whether the difference could be down to Pakistani students in London being less likely to be disadvantaged than those in other parts of the country.

Pupil progress in London
They found that Pakistani students in London tended to live in slightly less deprived areas than those living elsewhere, whereas the opposite was true for the other groups.

But, even controlling for demographic factors, Pakistani students "still seem to be more susceptible to the London effect than students from other ethnic groups", the researchers found.

They noted that recent immigrants typically showed high rates of progress, and omitted these children from the data to see what effect this had.

There was still "an extra-strong London effect for Pakistani students", found the researchers, who concluded that the reason for the trend remained unknown.

 

[ElRaja]

havnt had a massive amount of interaction with northern pakistanis in real life, but from my experience london pakistanis come from massively varied backgrounds, also the 9/11 and 7/7 effects have petered out for the younger generation, who are far more comfortable with their place in a cosmopolitan london than those who came before them, would have some effect in terms of social cohesions, enjoying school, etc, too i think.

 

[Knight_Rider]

UKs economy is centred around London and that reflects on every one living in there. Though I sometimes wonder how do normal ppl afford anything there? Its massively expensive and wages aren’t that proportionally high.

 

[Minnowbasher]

I dont know of it's a "London effect" or a general being from a richer family effect. London is the most expensive city to live in and so it is likely that the pakistanis that live there are a bit wealthier and so do better. It's the same in the richer areas of the north such as here in Manchester there is an affluent area called Trafford where Pakistanis living here do much better than pakistanis elsewhere due to the better schooling and facilities.
Having said all of that though London has some deprived areas which have a lot of Pakistanis and if they are still performing very well then there may well be a "London effect".

 

[Captain caveman]

Less mirpuris and more punjabis!
Midlands and north is 80+ % mirpuris.

 

[Minnowbasher]

Less mirpuris and more punjabis!
Midlands and north is 80+ % mirpuris.

Unfair to always single out mirpuris for the lack of education of british pakistanis. Yes to an extent it is true that mirpuris tend to be less educated but at the same time it's not like all punjabis in the UK are perfect educated and civilised while mirpuris are not. In fact London has it's fair share of rough Pakistani areas which are seen to be as "no go".

 

[ElRaja]

to people saying London is richer, you're missing the point, they compared Pakistani kids against other ethnic groups. if simply being richer had that affect, all ethnic groups would have a similar bump in London, but thats not the case, the London bump is more pronounced for Pakistanis, so it cant just be an issue of wealth.

UKs economy is centred around London and that reflects on every one living in there. Though I sometimes wonder how do normal ppl afford anything there? Its massively expensive and wages aren’t that proportionally high.

living in shared accommodation / with family. once u taken out cost of a house / flat, etc, it ain't really that expensive.

 

[TSA321]

also the 9/11 and 7/7 effects have petered out for the younger generation, who are far more comfortable with their place in a cosmopolitan london than those who came before them, would have some effect in terms of social cohesions, enjoying school, etc, too i think.

I don’t think that’s why, Pakistanis in London were performing better in school than those elsewhere years before 9/11 and 7/7. Also, if that were the case then you’d see similar difference with other Muslim groups like Bangladeshis and Somalis.

IMO it’s to do with which parts of Pakistan the ones in London immigrated from compared to those outside of it.

 

[Knight_Rider]

I often go to London and most of the Pakistani areas (Hounslow, Tooting, Croydon, East London etc) look cramped and run down to me. Also i didn't come across many Pakistani professionals in my field of work. So not really sure how true and credible is OP’s original post.

As for comparison of Mirpuris vs the Punjabis, I honestly don't think there is much of a difference. If at all, Mirpuris are probably more Established in small business sector. I think its more of the case of Urban vs Rural backgrounds of the people. Those from big cities like Lahore and Karachi are more aware of education and the doors it can open in terms of social mobility.

 

[Pakistanian]

Northern England is less developed and poorer schools than the south.

 

[ElRaja]

I don’t think that’s why, Pakistanis in London were performing better in school than those elsewhere years before 9/11 and 7/7. Also, if that were the case then you’d see similar difference with other Muslim groups like Bangladeshis and Somalis.

IMO it’s to do with which parts of Pakistan the ones in London immigrated from compared to those outside of it.

yeah they were, my point was that after 9/11 and 7/7 a lot of young Pakistanis felt socially on the outside, in my experience, a lot of "us and them" talk, its taken 10 odd years, but when i speak to younger Pakistanis now that apparent ostracisation, or feeling of not being part of the larger social group, seems to have disappeared pretty significantly, i dont know if that is the case outside of London.

 

[Captain caveman]

Unfair to always single out mirpuris for the lack of education of british pakistanis. Yes to an extent it is true that mirpuris tend to be less educated but at the same time it's not like all punjabis in the UK are perfect educated and civilised while mirpuris are not. In fact London has it's fair share of rough Pakistani areas which are seen to be as "no go".

I gave a possible explanation for the surveys results.
You are contradicting the survey.

 

[Sidilicious]

Just proves my point that anywhere outside M25 is not worth living.

 

[Captain caveman]

Just proves my point that anywhere outside M25 is not worth living.

i have lived all over the uk and all the major cities are nasty, london by far is the worst.
Dirty, polluted , overcrowded ,.unfriendly and the worst for accomodation.
I much prefer smaller towns than living in places like london.

 

[Knight_Rider]

Agree. North of England is actually more charming and characterful than many parts of London (and South). In fact most of outer london is just a generic crappy place that could be anywhere in the country. Other parts of south are also economically deprived like Kent, Portsmouth area etc

Where as in North: Bradford, Huddersfield, Harrogate, York, Leeds/Wetherby were all much better than what I anticipated.