Major cleanup required for Pakistan cricket after defeat to a reserve England side

[Nado_]

This is not a knee jerk reaction at all , this series defeat should be the last push of coaches management etc. Wee need a major change up and different mindset on how we are electing our players. Only our selectors will choose players based on performances from a Mickey Mouse league, rather than do what they are actually paid for and scout players from the domestic matches. It’s criminal how they continue to select players like Haris Rauf who’s only game plan is to bowl as fast as he can and Shadab Khan a pseudo all rounder who’s only standout performance was in his debut psl where the pitches were turning square.

 

[Savak]

This is not a knee jerk reaction at all , this series defeat should be the last push of coaches management etc. Wee need a major change up and different mindset on how we are electing our players. Only our selectors will choose players based on performances from a Mickey Mouse league, rather than do what they are actually paid for and scout players from the domestic matches. It’s criminal how they continue to select players like Haris Rauf who’s only game plan is to bowl as fast as he can and Shadab Khan a pseudo all rounder who’s only standout performance was in his debut psl where the pitches were turning square.

Knee Jerk Sacking of coaches before their contracts expire only breeds insecurities and discourages quality applicants going forward

 

[Mamoon]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Knee Jerk Sacking of coaches before their contracts expire only breeds insecurities and discourages quality applicants going forward

Yep, if the highly paid army of coaches can't bring an iota of difference, then we should increase their salary package and award them for regressing the team into dust.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

SL showed better fight against the full strength England team or at least the one better than this one.

 

[AdamM97]

The team selection and management is awful but the team lacks quality, changing coaches will only do so much imo.

 

[Savak]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

I think you will agree with me that these are the best possible players in Pakistan.

 

[Shaddy86]

There's one thing that you can learn from football is that management is everything team sports. When you have a loser mentality you'd lose to even a club team, I have no doubt a third division English club team could beat this Pakistan team. You can play XI Virat kohlis and this team would still lose. The England batting line up today was bunch of nobodies that could have bundled out for under 150 and most other international teams would have done that but it's their fighting spirit and belief in themselves which lets them carry on and believe whatever they put on board they can win.

 

[Mamoon]

I think you will agree with me that these are the best possible players in Pakistan.

They probably are, and the lack of talent in Pakistan is exposed every year in PSL.

We are an awful team in spite of playing the best players in the country. That sums up everything.

We are simply not good enough. That is all.

 

[Savak]

Yep, if the highly paid army of coaches can't bring an iota of difference, then we should increase their salary package and award them for regressing the team into dust.

It is what it is. If you sign a 3 year contract with someone, you have to see it through, if you sack someone repeatedly you give the impression to the next applicant that there is no job security.

In any case Pakistan went to Misbah because other foreign coaches did not express interest

 

[Savak]

They probably are, and the lack of talent in Pakistan is exposed every year in PSL.

We are an awful team in spite of playing the best players in the country. That sums up everything.

We are simply not good enough. That is all.

Is there anyone in our domestic cricket or psl you would prefer be picked in the Pakistan team? I am pretty sure you would have dropped Shadab, Rauf, Faheem, Hasnain etc

 

[Savak]

There's one thing that you can learn from football is that management is everything team sports. When you have a loser mentality you'd lose to even a club team, I have no doubt a third division English club team could beat this Pakistan team. You can play XI Virat kohlis and this team would still lose. The England batting line up today was bunch of nobodies that could have bundled out for under 150 and most other international teams would have done that but it's their fighting spirit and belief in themselves which lets them carry on and believe whatever they put on board they can win.

Tbh it is easier to have fighting spirit against a mediocre Pakistan. I would like to see what difference this fighting spirit in the Indian team would make if they were playing against England, New Zealand, Australia, India etc

 

[Nado_]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

I agree with you to a certain extent, it’s true we don’t have the best players coming through. But the systematic approach on how we are selecting players must surely be looked at? Furthermore you can’t disagree that players have regressed rather than improve under what are meant to be word class coaches. Certain Pakistan players don’t hell themselves with bad attitudes towards improvement and poor lifestyles in terms of fitness.

 

[Mamoon]

Is there anyone in our domestic cricket or psl you would prefer be picked in the Pakistan team? I am pretty sure you would have dropped Shadab, Rauf, Faheem, Hasnain etc

I would get Imad and Haris back into the team, even if the latter is not fit. Same goes for Amir, irrespective of his recent form.

Amir is better than Rauf any day of the week. At least he has some intelligence and control.

But overall, the situation is disastrous because every player seems to be worse than the one they are supposed to replace.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It is what it is. If you sign a 3 year contract with someone, you have to see it through, if you sack someone repeatedly you give the impression to the next applicant that there is no job security.

In any case Pakistan went to Misbah because other foreign coaches did not express interest

And when did we sack Misbah or any other coach "repeatedly"?

The professional approach is very simple. Being in the western world, you and I know it very well how things work and how they should work.

Contract means nothing if you don't deliver. Your performance periodically gets assessed, and if you don't live up to what you claimed to land on the job, you get a couple of warmings before you are let go. The contract goes into the trashcan.

If I was up there, I would rather NOT have any head coach than hiring or keeping Misbah and Waqar. For goodness sake!

 

[Nado_]

I would get Imad and Haris back into the team, even if the latter is not fit. Same goes for Amir, irrespective of his recent form.

Amir is better than Rauf any day of the week. At least he has some intelligence and control.

But overall, the situation is disastrous because every player seems to be worse than the one they are supposed to replace.

Haris and Imad are a must , much more stable Batsman who can go at a decent strike rate and have shown intelligence on how to chase down targets.

I understand the amir argument , but I wouldn’t choose him based on principle.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Haris and Imad are a must , much more stable Batsman who can go at a decent strike rate and have shown intelligence on how to chase down targets.

I understand the amir argument , but I wouldn’t choose him based on principle.

Haris cannot score at a good strike rate. He’s similar to the kind of innings Saud played today

 

[Nado_]

And when did we sack Misbah or any other coach "repeatedly"?

The professional approach is very simple. Being in the western world, you and I know it very well how things work and how they should work.

Contract means nothing if you don't deliver. Your performance periodically gets assessed, and if you don't live up to what you claimed to land on the job, you get a couple of warmings before you are let go. The contract goes into the trashcan.

If I was up there, I would rather NOT have any head coach than hiring or keeping Misbah and Waqar. For goodness sake!

Exactly, look what happens in football, some of the top sides I.e Barca and Madrid show no mercy whatsoever.

I’m not saying we are the Real Madrid of cricket but how many more obvious failures do we need to go through. Waqar is a legend bowler one of my all time favourites but as a coach I see nothing sorry.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree with you to a certain extent, it’s true we don’t have the best players coming through. But the systematic approach on how we are selecting players must surely be looked at? Furthermore you can’t disagree that players have regressed rather than improve under what are meant to be word class coaches. Certain Pakistan players don’t hell themselves with bad attitudes towards improvement and poor lifestyles in terms of fitness.

Pakistan cricket needs a factory reset. Our mentality is rotten to the core. Unfortunately, I don’t think it will ever happen.

The gap is getting bigger and bigger. We are now getting thrashed by the C and D team of England. Same will happen if we face India or Australia or perhaps even New Zealand.

 

[Omer2002]

Haris and Imad are a must , much more stable Batsman who can go at a decent strike rate and have shown intelligence on how to chase down targets.

I understand the amir argument , but I wouldn’t choose him based on principle.

Imad is not a one day player
..haris is finished ..there is no talent in pak especually batting

 

[Nado_]

Imad is not a one day player
..haris is finished ..there is no talent in pak especually batting

Based on our current lower middle order I think a Imad gets in on batting alone. Haris , I’m being a bit optimistic, but still has a couple of years left in him.

 

[iniqbal223]

They tried everything...

It lies with incompetent management

 

[sam_ahm]

Since 2000, if I compare each Pakistan team with a gap of 5 yrs, like 2000 - 2005 - 2010 - 2015 - 2020 every team has been weaker than the previous one.

May be, just may be 2020 is fractionally better than 2015, as in 2015 except for Misbah and YK there was literally no one else...

This is a scary trend.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Exactly, look what happens in football, some of the top sides I.e Barca and Madrid show no mercy whatsoever.

I’m not saying we are the Real Madrid of cricket but how many more obvious failures do we need to go through. Waqar is a legend bowler one of my all time favourites but as a coach I see nothing sorry.

Yep, and we are making it sound like as if Misbah and Waqar are doing their job in charity and on volunteer basis. As if they are doing us a favor for working for free.

Modern day cricket is a business and all what matters in a business is money.

If they get paid, they better deliver. It's been 15 years and we haven't learned this. We are sticking with the same tried and tested failures. I guess we will NEVER learn.

I won't be surprised to see Misbah and Waqar getting extension in their contract. Almost 100% guaranteed!

 

[Savak]

Lol, Steve Waugh in various interviews mentioned the key towards Australia developing into the strong invincible side of 1998 to 2007 is sucking up some horrible defeats and results from the mid 80's and 90's but the captain, coach, selectors identified the best 20-25 players in the country and for the national side and were determined to stick by them through thick and skin and as time went on, those players developed and some went on to become legends. You should check how long it took Steve Waugh to score his first century.

We have the most entitled spoiled fans who just want to enjoy wins without having contributed anything towards building a solid team i.e. showing faith, patience and backing the team for eternity regardless of results. Let's also face some solid facts, our results against the top 5 teams in the last 20 years shows that our domestic cricket structure, academies and coaching set up is incapable of producing quality products in international cricket at this time and neither do our players match up to international fitness and skills standards. There are no quick fixes.

Barring a few players who are out of form, the players that have been selected are the best available in the country and the players currently outside do not necessarily have great track records either i.e. Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Wahab Riaz, Imad Wasim, Hussain Talat, Asif Ali, Khusdhil Shah and co. You want the team to eventually have battled hardened players who are confident of performing under pressure, suck up defeats like Australia did in the 80's and 90's and back your best players through thick and skins.

 

[Nado_]

Since 2000, if I compare each Pakistan team with a gap of 5 yrs, like 2000 - 2005 - 2010 - 2015 - 2020 every team has been weaker than the previous one.

May be, just may be 2020 is fractionally better than 2015, as in 2015 except for Misbah and YK there was literally no one else...

This is a scary trend.

Bro with each phase they’ve managed to at least achieve something. Call it a fluke whatever but winning the ICC will go down in our records and achievements. But this new era is frighteningly mediocre.

 

[Savak]

Since 2000, if I compare each Pakistan team with a gap of 5 yrs, like 2000 - 2005 - 2010 - 2015 - 2020 every team has been weaker than the previous one.

May be, just may be 2020 is fractionally better than 2015, as in 2015 except for Misbah and YK there was literally no one else...

This is a scary trend.

You have to factor in that since the war on terror after 9/11, international cricket more or less dissapeared from Pakistan where teams like England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, West Indies barely toured enough unlike other countries and after the 2009 attacks, international cricket completely dissapeared due to which the PCB had to significantly spend out of pocket to play in UAE. As a result you had absolutely insufficient funds to invest in Pakistan Cricket and to keep up with the massive strides the other Big 4-5 teams were making. We are still playing catch up.

 

[Nado_]

Lol, Steve Waugh in various interviews mentioned the key towards Australia developing into the strong invincible side of 1998 to 2007 is sucking up some horrible defeats and results from the mid 80's and 90's but the captain, coach, selectors identified the best 20-25 players in the country and for the national side and were determined to stick by them through thick and skin and as time went on, those players developed and some went on to become legends. You should check how long it took Steve Waugh to score his first century.

We have the most entitled spoiled fans who just want to enjoy wins without having contributed anything towards building a solid team i.e. showing faith, patience and backing the team for eternity regardless of results. Let's also face some solid facts, our results against the top 5 teams in the last 20 years shows that our domestic cricket structure, academies and coaching set up is incapable of producing quality products in international cricket at this time and neither do our players match up to international fitness and skills standards. There are no quick fixes.

Barring a few players who are out of form, the players that have been selected are the best available in the country and the players currently outside do not necessarily have great track records either i.e. Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Wahab Riaz, Imad Wasim, Hussain Talat, Asif Ali, Khusdhil Shah and co. You want the team to eventually have battled hardened players who are confident of performing under pressure, suck up defeats like Australia did in the 80's and 90's and back your best players through thick and skins.

Will always support pak, but surely you have to see that there’s a problem with management , selection and coaching ?? Surely you can see that a very limited leg side hack like Kushdil will struggle in international but maybe sticking with a raw dynamic player and seeing him through in the long term will be better ( just one example off the top of my head). My problem is not with the players not being able to beat opposite teams , it’s the systematic approach on how these players are being selected and how they are being developed.

 

[Titan24]

I think the top teams currently in world cricket Eng, Ind and Nz have proved that to become a top team you need a solid structure which is able to produce solid frontline options as well as backups in the pipeline.

The distance between Pak and top teams currently in white ball cricket can't just magically eliminate by a different coach or selection policy. Yes all these things are extremely important but the current basic requirement is revolutionizing the whiteball structure from the grassroots and then integrating the whole system for that goal.

Yes an extremely good proven coaching staff, analyst etc can improve the current team but I dont think they can be enough to cover the whole distance from the top 3-4 and for Pak to consistently compete with them and beat them every now and then in both the white ball formats.

So the two immediate things for the PCB would be to try to provide all the quick fixes to Pak team if those can help in Pak competing with the top 3-4 sides but, at the same time work on the structural changes required at the grass root level along with the approach and selection policies required in the city and regional selections as thats the only way to be consistent with the production coming in the pipeline. From city associations (Now they are in place) to regional levels there should be a clarity on what kind of players and characters we need for white ball cricket and after recognizing such players at a young age they need to be given ample opportunities at domestic level so that in coming years they can possibly be ready for the next level.

 

[sam_ahm]

Bro with each phase they’ve managed to at least achieve something. Call it a fluke whatever but winning the ICC will go down in our records and achievements. But this new era is frighteningly mediocre.

I agree, in each era they had players to rely on, they still have Babar, Shaheen but this time it's more like the young players whom Pakistan are hoping will step up, instead of proven performers who were there in each era to guide youngsters while the seniors took major responsibility.

As in 2000 there were many greats - Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, to guide Akhtar, Mahmood, Razzaq, Youhana, Younus.

2005/06 they still had Inzamam, Yousuf, Younus, Akhtar, Razzaq, Afridi to guide Malik, Kamran, Butt, Asif, Gul, Hafeez.

2010 - Hafeez, Kamran, Misbah, Malik, Afridi, Akhtar, Gul became the seniors to guide Aamer, Umar Akmal, Azhar Ali, Shafiq, Wahab. Ajmal was there too.

2015 - Misbah, Younus, Wahab were main players and younger players were like Haris, Shehzad, Sarfaraz, Junaid Khan.

Unfortunately this is where the transition kind of stopped.

2020 - it's completely younger players like Babar, Shaheen, Hasan Ali, Rizwan, which is why I feel someone like Sarfaraz, Aamer, Hafeez some senior player should be there in the team.

If you see the quality of senior players has kept on decreasing. Just imagine if Babar had someone like Inzamam or Yousuf or Younus to play alongside him. Or Shaheen having Akhtar, or Asif or Aamer bowling alongside him. Makes a big difference.

 

[muqarrab]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

This.

Can anyone tell what will be our second X1? Talent coming out of pakistan just isn't good enough. Saud Shakeel is a prime example. He looked good today but he is an ordinary player at best.

 

[Mamoon]

This.

Can anyone tell what will be our second X1? Talent coming out of pakistan just isn't good enough. Saud Shakeel is a prime example. He looked good today but he is an ordinary player at best.

Saud will not get into the England Z ODI team, and then we wonder why their D demolished us.

 

[Titan24]

This.

Can anyone tell what will be our second X1? Talent coming out of pakistan just isn't good enough. Saud Shakeel is a prime example. He looked good today but he is an ordinary player at best.

I think Pak's second XI cant do much worse or better than our first XI and would possibly be somewhat at a similar level in terms of results with maybe slight variations on negative and even positive side on a given day. Thats the issue with Pak's side, that they dont have many players that touch that next level and most of the guys around other than 2-4 are pretty much at same level or we can say at a mediocre level give or take a few.

 

[Savak]

I think the top teams currently in world cricket Eng, Ind and Nz have proved that to become a top team you need a solid structure which is able to produce solid frontline options as well as backups in the pipeline.

The distance between Pak and top teams currently in white ball cricket can't just magically eliminate by a different coach or selection policy. Yes all these things are extremely important but the current basic requirement is revolutionizing the whiteball structure from the grassroots and then integrating the whole system for that goal.

Yes an extremely good proven coaching staff, analyst etc can improve the current team but I dont think they can be enough to cover the whole distance from the top 3-4 and for Pak to consistently compete with them and beat them every now and then in both the white ball formats.

So the two immediate things for the PCB would be to try to provide all the quick fixes to Pak team if those can help in Pak competing with the top 3-4 sides but, at the same time work on the structural changes required at the grass root level along with the approach and selection policies required in the city and regional selections as thats the only way to be consistent with the production coming in the pipeline. From city associations (Now they are in place) to regional levels there should be a clarity on what kind of players and characters we need for white ball cricket and after recognizing such players at a young age they need to be given ample opportunities at domestic level so that in coming years they can possibly be ready for the next level.

Lol Pakistan is still playing its ODI and T-20 cricket as if its the 90's. When has Pakistan last comprehensively smashed a big 4 team in this format and that also outside the UAE? The PCB is not correctly identifying that the players and coaches in Pakistan are still approaching the limited overs format with the 90's mindset.

England in contrast after the disastrous 2015 WC, invested in a power hitting coach who was responsible for identifying aggressive players needed to move English Cricket forward in ODI, T-20 Cricket and to help players develop power hitting techniques, expanding their range of shots. Has Pakistan worked on this with the players in domestic cricket and academies? Is there any concept or understanding of where we have gone wrong in the limited overs format for the last 10 years?

 

[Savak]

Saud will not get into the England Z ODI team, and then we wonder why their D demolished us.

No point in raising this issue. When a team is not spoilt for choices in its set up, you have to play the best players you have and sadly Saud was head and shoulders over everyone today.

 

[gazza619]

No we dont need a major clean up.

We just need to pick the right team and sack the team think tank.

 

[Titan24]

Lol Pakistan is still playing its ODI and T-20 cricket as if its the 90's. When has Pakistan last comprehensively smashed a big 4 team in this format and that also outside the UAE? The PCB is not correctly identifying that the players and coaches in Pakistan are still approaching the limited overs format with the 90's mindset.

England in contrast after the disastrous 2015 WC, invested in a power hitting coach who was responsible for identifying aggressive players needed to move English Cricket forward in ODI, T-20 Cricket and to help players develop power hitting techniques, expanding their range of shots. Has Pakistan worked on this with the players in domestic cricket and academies? Is there any concept or understanding of where we have gone wrong in the limited overs format for the last 10 years?

Exactly. Needs a complete change of approach at all different levels involved as neither the approach is great nor we are spoilt for choices unlike some top teams. England revolutionized their approach at all levels and that integration of the system and clarity regarding what they were trying to achieve along with what kind of players they need coming in their whole setup is reflective in their current white ball team.

 

[PakLFC]

How many clean up's do we need?? We have this conversation after every series defeat that it just does not matter anymore. This is the best we have to offer that an England C side would hammer them with their eyes closed. In particular poor batting repeatedly lets us down yet we do nothing about it. Changing coaches makes no difference when the tank is empty. Ultimately, it is the players who need to do the business on the pitch. I can not think of any absent player who would make a difference. We can't give what we don't, quality. What we do give is wishful thinking, false promises and fantasies.

 

[Shafi]

Main problem IK itself for his favouritism for selecting unlit people like Mani, unskilled head Coach Misbah and serial failure Waqar.

 

[Savak]

How many clean up's do we need?? We have this conversation after every series defeat that it just does not matter anymore. This is the best we have to offer that an England C side would hammer them with their eyes closed. In particular poor batting repeatedly lets us down yet we do nothing about it. Changing coaches makes no difference when the tank is empty. Ultimately, it is the players who need to do the business on the pitch. I can not think of any absent player who would make a difference. We can't give what we don't, quality. What we do give is wishful thinking, false promises and fantasies.

I don't want to think that negatively. I think the fact that the Big 4-5 consistently play a lot of cricket with each other has actually been extremely beneficial for the teams and players where they have become battle hardened. Pakistan in comparison just does not play enough cricket against teams like England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, India as these countries do and instead plays a lot against Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbabwe. Maybe bringing international cricket back to Pakistan and having the likes of England, NZ, Australia tour more often will help to fix this problem.

 

[in_cutter]

This is not a knee jerk reaction at all , this series defeat should be the last push of coaches management etc. Wee need a major change up and different mindset on how we are electing our players. Only our selectors will choose players based on performances from a Mickey Mouse league, rather than do what they are actually paid for and scout players from the domestic matches. It’s criminal how they continue to select players like Haris Rauf who’s only game plan is to bowl as fast as he can and Shadab Khan a pseudo all rounder who’s only standout performance was in his debut psl where the pitches were turning square.

Every three-four years such threads pop up lol

Nothing will change. This is Pakistan cricket. Live with it.

 

[Savak]

Are calls for wholesale changes in the Pakistan team justified?

Who can you really drop from the Pakistan team that was selected?

1) Imam ul Haq

The guy played a key role in our first ODI win against South Africa this year and he has an average close to 50

2) Fakhar Zaman

The guy played a career best 190 against SA in the second ODI and was in red hot form in that series. You can't drop him based on one bad game

3) Babar Azam

Riddiculous discussion

4) Rizwan

He is a much better keeper than Sarfaraz and is much fitter than Sarfaraz. He hasn't been able to replicate his T-20 and Test match batting form in the ODI arena as yet but you can't discard him based on two failures and that also when there is no one better to replace him

5) Saud Shakeel

He has been the discovery of the series for me, technically very solid. Let's hope his 50 today upgrades his confidence and he is able to play more freely going forward. He looks a good option for test matches

6) Suhaib Maqsood

The guy got in the team on merit after a solid National T-20 Cup and PSL, you can't drop him after 1-2 failures but it is also clear the guy is still a hack and most quality international teams will bounce him out

7) Shadab Khan

His selection can definately be questioned because he hasn't done anything extraordinary with either bat or ball for ages. He has been injured off late but for some reason the selectors have allowed him walk back into the team just like that without any requirements to prove his form, fitness in domestic 4 day games. I can't remember the last time this guy was made to play a 4 day domestic game. Surely 2-3 seasons of domestic 4 day seasons exposure will be beneficial to him rather than playing only for Pakistan in limited overs games or in T-20 leagues, he has not raised his game one bit. He definately can make way for Usman Qadir

8) Faheem Ashraf

The amount of unlimited chances this guy keeps on getting in the ODI and T-20 team ahead of the likes of Aamir Yamin, Ammad Butt is shocking. Surely these guys could have created more impact with the same number of chances. He should definately be rested from the limited overs format for now

9) Harris Rauf

Glorified rock thrower. Don't see what the team management see in him, does nothing with the ball, doesn't take wickets, releases pressure. Should definately make way

10) Hassan Ali

Our best bowler in all formats, can't be dropped but should work on adding more dimensions to his batting ie how to stay at the wicket, developing defensive strokes, strike rotation

11) Shaheen Afridi

Our best bowler in all formats

Apart from Faheem Ashraf, Shadab Khan i don't think you can question too many selections

The selectors have tried others i.e. Hussain Talat, Asif Ali, Khusdil Shah, Musa Khan, Naseem Shah who have failed to grab their chances.

Asad Shafiq got a lengthy run and its clear where he stands. Same can be said for Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad.

Then you have the likes of Hasnain, Abdullah Shafiq who are just travelling with the team and have had to miss out the last 2-3 domestic 4 day seasons as a result.

Quality of players might be a problem but there is no doubt that the team team management and selectors complete lack of vision and planning is what is making the situation ten times worse.

 

[cricketfan11]

Everyone mentions the problems but hardly anyone talks about solutions.

When most people agreed Misbah the captain was bad for the future of Pakistan cricket, why was he selected as head coach?

Was this idea ever bound to work?

 

[cricketfan11]

I have seen the era of Wasim and Waqar, Inzamam and Anwar - so since the departure of these players I have seen many articles and comments about a shake-up/clean-up being needed.

The issues now are very basic, in that Pakistan is unable to play the basics correctly. You don't need a genius to be able to tell that if your bowlers can only bowl brief spells properly (because it seems they are only training for T20 cricket), bowlers can't bowl yorkers and bouncers, your batsmen don't know how to run between the wickets and rotate strike, you have problems with power-hitting, your players generally look ill-suited and uncomfortable playing ODIs or Tests, then you will face these kinds of defeats.

There are other problems like still not being able to bat well outside Asia, but this is becoming a more insignificant problem as the more basic deficiencies are becoming more prominent.

You might as well get a lesser known coach/manager who helps players develop these basic skills rather than big names who carry a lot of ego but can't deliver.

 

[moghul]

I still don’t believe there is any serious lack of talent in Pakistan, Problem is the corrupt coach ( Misbah ) and the selectors. Get rid of Misbah , bring in some honest guy and selector who’s only interest is Pakistan cricket and things will start getting better in 2-3 years .

Not only players are bad , administration is even worst and the level of cricketing knowledge of today’s Pakistan team fans was never been worst . people still talk about pathetic players like Harris Sohail . After failure of one player they ask to bring back another failed player, not a new one .

We have no option other than keep trying the new talent after the failure of older players . Stop
Playing the game of musical chairs in selection of players.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Every three-four years such threads pop up lol

Nothing will change. This is Pakistan cricket. Live with it.

These same bunch of players were performing marginally better under Mickey, although we were no world beaters even then. But to get owned by B teams and Zimbabwe consistently is getting embarrassing now.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

1) He averages 38 vs Top 5 at a strike rate of 76…yes 76.

2) Our best LOI batsman, better than Babar Azam.

3) Gets squared up far too often, teams have figured him out. But still gets in the xi

4) Nasser Hussain mentioned it in the commentary, Rizwan should be batting at 5 in England, and I agree with him. He can’t be coming in when we’re 2 down in the first 10 overs.

5) Our second best player today, reminds me of Fawad Alam. People were critical of him for his dot balls, but they forget that the run rate required was at a run a ball, you don’t need boundaries, especially when you’re batting with the tail.

6) He’s not a hack, this guy played some nice shots through the cover region, and he’s probably our best player at playing the pull shot.

7) Shadab Khan gets in the team for me, he’s a better batsman than Nawaz, and a better bowler in ODI’s, not in T20’s though.

8) No words, his batting average is below Shaheen Afridi, and his bowling average is 40+, his teammates must be thinking how this guy gets in the team. Should be replaced by Imad Wasim.

9) Haris Rauf should never have been picked for the ODI’s, let him play T20’s. Amir gets in ahead of him.

10) Hassan Ali should be made the captain, our best player in the team, performs with both bat and ball, and he doesn’t shy away from a challenge.

11) Bowls well in the first 5 overs, pretty much useless after that.

 

[moghul]

Wondering if people like Misbah possess any self respect, there is always a time when a person would say. Ok, I tried my best , didn’t work , let someone else have a shot now , just dreaming .

 

[PakLFC]

I don't want to think that negatively. I think the fact that the Big 4-5 consistently play a lot of cricket with each other has actually been extremely beneficial for the teams and players where they have become battle hardened. Pakistan in comparison just does not play enough cricket against teams like England, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, India as these countries do and instead plays a lot against Sri Lanka, West Indies, Zimbabwe. Maybe bringing international cricket back to Pakistan and having the likes of England, NZ, Australia tour more often will help to fix this problem.

We are decent in conditions that suit us. Once upon a time were decent in England as well winning regularly here. Had it been due to a lack of Cricket we would not be doing well in friendlier conditions like the UAE and whenever we get to play at home. Our batsmen are technically poor and lacking in technique, this has been a chronic problem for ages now.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Wondering if people like Misbah possess any self respect, there is always a time when a person would say. Ok, I tried my best , didn’t work , let someone else have a shot now , just dreaming .

Honestly, Misbah would get my respect if he resigned, but if he’s waiting to get sacked then he’s only putting a mark on his CV.

 

[cricketfan11]

Why not implement an idea that has done the rounds for a while - separate teams for each format of the game (although I suppose Babar can play every format and Rizwan probably too)

I think the situation will improve if the Pakistani Test team improves but if the focus is on T20 then I see this affecting Test cricket which ironically just weakens the whole system.

India, England, Australia have invested well in T20 but didn't compromise on Tests but PCB seriously missed a trick there.

 

[cricketfan11]

Honestly, Misbah would get my respect if he resigned, but if he’s waiting to get sacked then he’s only putting a mark on his CV.

But when people used to criticise Misbah for having an overly defensive approach in his captaincy - who decided he should become coach? On what basis was he selected when he had no significant coaching experience and if anything he used to encourage the team to play the 80s and 90s brand of cricket?

 

[Titan24]

Quality of players might be a problem but there is no doubt that the team team management and selectors complete lack of vision and planning is what is making the situation ten times worse.

Agreed but, what exactly is our expectation from the selector when we are saying that most these players make the team on merit?

Yes we can argue about team management as irrespective of the results they haven't been able to manifest any clear direction and approach where they are taking the team. Whats their team environment, what kind of players and characters they want in the dressing room to achieve the desired results. Other than Hassan who found his feet once again by playing QAE all other pacers havent improved much as well under Waqar so far on the face value.

To be honest Northern regional team under Mohammad Wasim showed more direction and approach with regards to what they were trying to do than we have seen with Pakistan.

In every team sport there is a certain direction every team tries to go towards or approach they try to implement but with the current Pak team I am unable to tell what exactly is the direction, where they want to be in next 5 years and what they are doing to achieve that.

Yes I would bring the selector in this part and question does the head coach and selector really believe this given bunch of players with the current approach can become a top side in white ball cricket? If they really do than good enough but, if they dont than why are they selecting these players and not working on identifying the ones that might give them a better chance to atleast give it a shot. Forming a cricket team is no rocket science, giving it a direction and having certain goal in mind is the key.

 

[Mamoon]

Those who are saying that Pakistan does not lack talent, can you please name a playing XI that would not embarrass the nation?

The reality is that you cannot. Whatever names you come up with will produce pathetic results because 99% of our players are pathetic.

They either have no talent, or they are thick as a planks, or they have no mentality.

Yes Misbah is a poor coach and that is a problem. However, the fact that our cricketers are poor is a far bigger problem.

Make Misbah the coach of England. Do you think with players like Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Root, Archer etc., he will struggle to win matches? Absolutely not.

Andy Flower is a far better coach than Misbah. However, if he is coaching Pakistan and Misbah is coaching England, England would still demolish Pakistan home and away in LOIs.

Our fans are always looking for scapegoats and will try to find punching bags because they are unwilling to accept that Pakistan lacks the capacity to produce top players.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

But when people used to criticise Misbah for having an overly defensive approach in his captaincy - who decided he should become coach? On what basis was he selected when he had no significant coaching experience and if anything he used to encourage the team to play the 80s and 90s brand of cricket?

He was part of the committee that decided to get rid of Mickey Arthur, and that same committee probably backed Misbah to become coach.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Those who are saying that Pakistan does not lack talent, can you please name a playing XI that would not embarrass the nation?

The reality is that you cannot. Whatever names you come up with will produce pathetic results because 99% of our players are pathetic.

They either have no talent, or they are thick as a planks, or they have no mentality.

Yes Misbah is a poor coach and that is a problem. However, the fact that our cricketers are poor is a far bigger problem.

Make Misbah the coach of England. Do you think with players like Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Root, Archer etc., he will struggle to win matches? Absolutely not.

Andy Flower is a far better coach than Misbah. However, if he is coaching Pakistan and Misbah is coaching England, England would still demolish Pakistan home and away in LOIs.

Our fans are always looking for scapegoats and will try to find punching bags because they are unwilling to accept that Pakistan lacks the capacity to produce top players.

Sharjeel Khan - Ave/SR similar 2 Roy/Hales
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam
Mohammad Hafeez
Mohammad Rizwan (can be pushed down)
Umar Akmal (dehydrated)
Imad Wasim (c)
Hassan Ali (playing as all rounder)
Mohammad Amir
Shaheen Afridi
Usman Qadir

1 genuine spinner + 2 PT’s (Hafeez+Imad)
Amir Shaheen new ball pair
Hassan Ali with old ball

It doesn’t get better than this.

 

[Mamoon]

Sharjeel Khan - Ave/SR similar 2 Roy/Hales
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam
Mohammad Hafeez
Mohammad Rizwan (can be pushed down)
Umar Akmal (dehydrated)
Imad Wasim (c)
Hassan Ali (playing as all rounder)
Mohammad Amir
Shaheen Afridi
Usman Qadir

1 genuine spinner + 2 PT’s (Hafeez+Imad)
Amir Shaheen new ball pair
Hassan Ali with old ball

It doesn’t get better than this.

In ODIs, this team will lose 5-0 or 4-1 to England, India, Australia and New Zealand in any conditions.

And Roy and Hales are miles better than Sharjeel. He is not even half as good as that Afghan opener Zazai. A truly pathetic player.

As I said, no matter what fantasy XI people come up with, it is not possible to assemble a Pakistan ODI team that will not embarrass the nation.

 

[Snatch]

Who can you really drop from the Pakistan team that was selected?

1) Imam ul Haq

The guy played a key role in our first ODI win against South Africa this year and he has an average close to 50

2) Fakhar Zaman

The guy played a career best 190 against SA in the second ODI and was in red hot form in that series. You can't drop him based on one bad game

3) Babar Azam

Riddiculous discussion

4) Rizwan

He is a much better keeper than Sarfaraz and is much fitter than Sarfaraz. He hasn't been able to replicate his T-20 and Test match batting form in the ODI arena as yet but you can't discard him based on two failures and that also when there is no one better to replace him

5) Saud Shakeel

He has been the discovery of the series for me, technically very solid. Let's hope his 50 today upgrades his confidence and he is able to play more freely going forward. He looks a good option for test matches

6) Suhaib Maqsood

The guy got in the team on merit after a solid National T-20 Cup and PSL, you can't drop him after 1-2 failures but it is also clear the guy is still a hack and most quality international teams will bounce him out

7) Shadab Khan

His selection can definately be questioned because he hasn't done anything extraordinary with either bat or ball for ages. He has been injured off late but for some reason the selectors have allowed him walk back into the team just like that without any requirements to prove his form, fitness in domestic 4 day games. I can't remember the last time this guy was made to play a 4 day domestic game. Surely 2-3 seasons of domestic 4 day seasons exposure will be beneficial to him rather than playing only for Pakistan in limited overs games or in T-20 leagues, he has not raised his game one bit. He definately can make way for Usman Qadir

8) Faheem Ashraf

The amount of unlimited chances this guy keeps on getting in the ODI and T-20 team ahead of the likes of Aamir Yamin, Ammad Butt is shocking. Surely these guys could have created more impact with the same number of chances. He should definately be rested from the limited overs format for now

9) Harris Rauf

Glorified rock thrower. Don't see what the team management see in him, does nothing with the ball, doesn't take wickets, releases pressure. Should definately make way

10) Hassan Ali

Our best bowler in all formats, can't be dropped but should work on adding more dimensions to his batting ie how to stay at the wicket, developing defensive strokes, strike rotation

11) Shaheen Afridi

Our best bowler in all formats

Apart from Faheem Ashraf, Shadab Khan i don't think you can question too many selections

The selectors have tried others i.e. Hussain Talat, Asif Ali, Khusdil Shah, Musa Khan, Naseem Shah who have failed to grab their chances.

Asad Shafiq got a lengthy run and its clear where he stands. Same can be said for Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad.

Then you have the likes of Hasnain, Abdullah Shafiq who are just travelling with the team and have had to miss out the last 2-3 domestic 4 day seasons as a result.

Quality of players might be a problem but there is no doubt that the team team management and selectors complete lack of vision and planning is what is making the situation ten times worse.

So both Ali and Afridi are the best bowler across all formats?

 

[Rana]

Does Rizwan the people's champion have to play because he is a better 'keeper' than Sarfaraz?

Saud Shaqeel is a good batsman. Just play a genuine batsman at number 4 and play Rizwan at 6 as the keeper/bat!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just looking at the team which was selected it was pretty clear it was not suited to playing in England. Shadab, Rauf, Imam were never going to perform over here, but worse than that was the unnecessarily defensive mindset which the players displayed when batting. I can only assume that was Misbah trying to turn players like Fakhar Zaman into something which totally confused the player to the point where he didn't seem to understand his own game any more.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Those blabbering about lack of talent.
I think talent is super over rated.

It's not even 1% factor behind the success.

What we lack is, sporting culture, honesty with work ethics, determination, grit and focus; ALL backed by HARD WORK, which is 99% factor behind success.

In the last 70 years, Pakistan produced ONLY ONE naturally talented and gifted player. And that was Wasim Akram. That's it. No one else!

Rest of all great Pakistani players were hard workers, honest with their work ethics, and had focus on the game and improvement. They were street fighters unlike our Babaa-e-tuk tuk.

Those greats of the past era truly strived to improve rather than, posing straight bat shots in the nets, in front of the camera.

Again, what we lack is the culture.

 

[PakFan2010]

I find it ridiculous how players like Asad Shafiq, Shoaib Malik and Mohammed Hafeez cannot get into this batting line up.

 

[Bewal Express]

I find it ridiculous how players like Asad Shafiq, Shoaib Malik and Mohammed Hafeez cannot get into this batting line up.

Yes, we had amazing success with them and we need these 40 years back again.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Take for example Usman Khawaja.

He may not have a hugely glorified international career but he made it all the way to Australia test team and played Ashes. I think it's a HUGE deal.

Had he been in Pakistan, he would be deemed just another ordinary talentless player .... but the same player when put into the culture and environment, made it all the way!

It's all about culture, ethics, determination, grit and hard work.

 

[Bewal Express]

Everyone mentions the problems but hardly anyone talks about solutions.

When most people agreed Misbah the captain was bad for the future of Pakistan cricket, why was he selected as head coach?

Was this idea ever bound to work?

Yes because it's easy to finger the problems but there aren't any easy solutions. Bar a couple of player, most people will come up with the some 11. We have to accept they aren't very good.

 

[Mamoon]

Take for example Usman Khawaja.

He may not have a hugely glorified international career but he made it all the way to Australia test team and played Ashes. I think it's a HUGE deal.

Had he been in Pakistan, he would be deemed just another ordinary talentless player .... but the same player when put into the culture and environment, made it all the way!

It's all about culture, ethics, determination, grit and hard work.

Khwaja played 44 Tests at an average around 40. He has had a similar career to the likes of Azhar and Shafiq because he is a player of roughly the same quality.

The Australian culture, ethics, determination and hard work could not develop him into a 50+ averaging, world beating batsman because he didn’t have the ability to become one.

So if he was in Pakistan, he would have a career similar to those two. Hence, I don’t see the point you are making.

If you are suggesting that there is no talent crisis in Pakistan then I’m afraid you don’t have much of a point.

 

[Bewal Express]

How many clean up's do we need?? We have this conversation after every series defeat that it just does not matter anymore. This is the best we have to offer that an England C side would hammer them with their eyes closed. In particular poor batting repeatedly lets us down yet we do nothing about it. Changing coaches makes no difference when the tank is empty. Ultimately, it is the players who need to do the business on the pitch. I can not think of any absent player who would make a difference. We can't give what we don't, quality. What we do give is wishful thinking, false promises and fantasies.

Pretty much what I am saying. If Babar and Riz score we have a chance to win, if both fail we lose heavily, if one fails we lose with a little dignity.

 

[Shahzad1985]

I would actually like us to lose 3-0 in this odi series and then lose the t20 series. I know some may see that as bad as a fan but maybe then we will see some heads roll and some kind of enquiry which may see the end of the Misbah coaching era. I agree this is probably the best players out there but if they are and they perform like this then all we can say is maybe the coaches can’t get the best out of them so it’s time to let someone else have a go. May still pick most of the same players but a fresh coach may exert some positive intent to the side. I think what a lot of people are forgetting here in todays game especially we were let down badly by Babar, Rizwan, Fakhar and Imam. Let’s face it these 4 are the best we got even though I ain’t a fan of Imam but these 4 are going nowhere.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The door must be closed on Imam, Faheem (unfortunately) and Haris. These guys are TTF and should never be selected again.

Fakhar and Shadab are on a shaky nail too.

 

[Bewal Express]

I think we would have done better against the full English team than we have against the 2nd stringers. The 2nd stringers had nothing to lose and went for it. The full English team was beaten by PK in the WC and a match against them would have suited us as the under dogs.

 

[moghul]

Misbah is Pakistan cricket's Buzdar, not going anywhere for the same reason.

 

[QalandarFan]

How were we beating the likes of England, New Zealand, and South Africa 2 years ago in England in the world cup and now we getting thrashed by England's B team?

Sack Misbah!! I said it then and I'll say it now we should have never gotten rid of Mickey Arthur.

 

[Mr Crickekter]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

Na you are wrong we are not the same league of teams as Westindies, Bangladesh and Srilanka... the reality is we are Kenya,UAE, Zimbabwe, Namibia level team..
I don't think Westindies, Srilanka or even Bangladesh could have lost so badly as we lost to this D level England team...
So comparing current Pak Cricket team with Westindies, Srilanka etc is to insult these teams

 

[Cricfan4eva]

There is always overreaction in Asian fans. There were calls for Kohli to give up captaincy after we lost WTC final, so its usual. Not surprised to see Pak fans overreaction as well.

WI beat Aus twice in 2 games in T20Is, you don't see Aus fans asking for Langer to quit or Finch to be sacked. (yet)

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Khwaja played 44 Tests at an average around 40. He has had a similar career to the likes of Azhar and Shafiq because he is a player of roughly the same quality.

The Australian culture, ethics, determination and hard work could not develop him into a 50+ averaging, world beating batsman because he didn’t have the ability to become one.

So if he was in Pakistan, he would have a career similar to those two. Hence, I don’t see the point you are making.

If you are suggesting that there is no talent crisis in Pakistan then I’m afraid you don’t have much of a point.

read again. I am NOT suggesting that there no talent crisis in Pakistan.

I am saying, TALENT IS OVER RATED. SUPER OVER RATED.

Hard work, determination, grit and focus will almost ALWAYS trump talent.

We simply don't have that culture.

So far as comparing Khawaja with Azhar and Shafiq .... are you telling me that Azhar and Shafiq in their prime could walk into the Australian test side and had played 44 tests including the Ashes?

 

[Mesozoic]

"Cleanups" and constant chopping and changes will do absolutely nothing I'm afraid. In fact it'll most likely have detrimental effects in the longer run. Just look at the state of Sri Lanka, who change personnel every weekend.

Pak fans need to realize , accept the fact that they're currently closer to the SL~WI~Ban~Afg level than they're to the Eng~Ind~Aus~NZ level and lower their expectations a bit. They're probably on par with the "reserve" top4 teams and will most likely lose to them away from home. And that's exactly what happened in this series. It's not a shocker of a result by any means. The way they struggled against Zimbabwe (home and away) and the weakest South African team of all time should have been a good indicator (wake up call) of where they stand in terms of white ball cricket.

Dropping players left and right, changing the management will only dent the team further. At least now they're slightly better than the bottom tier teams...

 

[MP2011]

There is always overreaction in Asian fans. There were calls for Kohli to give up captaincy after we lost WTC final, so its usual.

Being an Indian fan you should know that those calls were not kneejerk! We have not won anything meaningful under Kohli for quite some time now. Last meaningful series win under him was way back in 2018 in Australia! And I need not tell you we've not won any silverware under him....

If calling such a captain to be sacked is kneejerk reaction in your books then so be it. Better informed people know Kohli's sacking as captain is long overdue!

 

[sharmaji]

If Pak wins the T20 series and (a big IF) the T20 World Cup, all will be forgiven and forgotten.

If I were Misbah, I would just focus on that: T20 world cup. PCT has all the ingredients to win the T20 world cup, which will happen on the slow dry pitches and large grounds of UAE. Meanwhile, don't panic too much. Keep the boys motivated, don't insult them unnecessarily.

Post the T20 world cup, comprehensively analyse how the performances of players, coaching staff etc over the past 2-3 years has been, and the vision for Pak cricket going forward. Now is not the time for this overhaul.

 

[sharmaji]

Being an Indian fan you should know that those calls were not kneejerk! We have not won anything meaningful under Kohli for quite some time now. Last meaningful series win under him was way back in 2018 in Australia! And I need not tell you we've not won any silverware under him....

If calling such a captain to be sacked is kneejerk reaction in your books then so be it. Better informed people know Kohli's sacking as captain is long overdue!

I agree. I am in the camp that would like Kohli to step down as captain and focus on his batting. Let Rohit/Rahane take over captaincy.

 

[MP2011]

I agree. I am in the camp that would like Kohli to step down as captain and focus on his batting. Let Rohit/Rahane take over captaincy.

Those days when Kohli used to enthrall us as a batsman are sadly long gone.

These days he tortures us more from his clueless captaincy.