Major cleanup required for Pakistan cricket after defeat to a reserve England side

[sharmaji]

I miss those days. When was the last time Kohli played an incredible innings like he used to?

Those days when Kohli used to enthrall us as a batsman are sadly long gone.

These days he tortures us more from his clueless captaincy.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

For me it’s simple, throw Misbah away half the problem solved, throw Waqar also fully solved.

I can’t think of days when Mickey and Sarfraz were in charge they had this sort of collapse at the top except the CWC one off against WI.

 

[Greenstorm]

We need to replicate what England did after 2015 WC. Yes I understand that we lack the talent pool for that sort of transformation but a direction needs to be set.

1. Appoint experienced, accomplished foreign coaches at national level and pay them what they ask. Andy Flower will be a good first catch. His work with MS has shown the importance of real coaches/managers at the top level. Say no to on job trainees (Misbah) and PT masters (Waqar).

2. There is a dire need of professional batting coaches at first class and junior levels. This is a hard problem to solve as Pakistan lacks such coaches and we cannot afford foreign coaches working at junior levels.

3. Instill professionalism and a winner's mentality among players at domestic level. Our players are often found doing OTT celebrations after taking wicket of batsmen like Chosoro ! Again better minds than me have to come up with a way to work on psychological aspects of our players.

4. Move towards stats and data based analysis and decision making. Our selectors believe in it, but team managements at national and domestic level don't.

5. Appoint a national captain who believes in the overall direction the system intends to move towards and has his own vision for it. Right now we have a proxy captain along with a head coach whose vision (or lack of it) is completely different for CS's.

 

[Mamoon]

read again. I am NOT suggesting that there no talent crisis in Pakistan.

I am saying, TALENT IS OVER RATED. SUPER OVER RATED.

Hard work, determination, grit and focus will almost ALWAYS trump talent.

We simply don't have that culture.

So far as comparing Khawaja with Azhar and Shafiq .... are you telling me that Azhar and Shafiq in their prime could walk into the Australian test side and had played 44 tests including the Ashes?

Talent is not overrated. You can never excel at the highest level if you do not have above average natural ability no matter how hardworking and determined you are.

Of course, if you do not work hard and are not focused, you will not excel even if you have talented.

The point is that hard work and determination complements talent; it cannot substitute talent.

If you do not have the talent, you can work your socks off but you will not succeed.

Shan Masood is probably the most hard working cricketer in Pakistan. His work ethic is exemplary and yet he is a failure because he is simply does not have the ability required to be a successful international cricketer.

As far as Australia is concerned, they have had a batting crisis during the previous decade. Apart from Smith and Warner, they have had filler batsmen through the years until the emergence of Labuschagne.

Between 2013 and 2019, they have selected some deeply mediocre batsmen. If Azhar and Shafiq were in Australia during this period, there is no doubt they would be in contention.

2016-17 version of Azhar who scored a double-century at the MCG and Shafiq who scored a century at the Gabba would definitely get a look-in in the 2017-18 Ashes squad.

 

[Nado_]

To those saying there’s no need to change management coaches etc, well answer me this: how much worse does it need to get before a change is required? This result is the last straw for me, anything less than a comprehensive win for Pak should have been seen as a disappointment but to be thrashed ( yes the margins of defeat were thrashings) in both games and losing the series in such a way is criminal. If you’re a recognised international team then you cannot allow things to continue like this.

 

[PakLFC]

Those blabbering about lack of talent.
I think talent is super over rated.

It's not even 1% factor behind the success.

What we lack is, sporting culture, honesty with work ethics, determination, grit and focus; ALL backed by HARD WORK, which is 99% factor behind success.

In the last 70 years, Pakistan produced ONLY ONE naturally talented and gifted player. And that was Wasim Akram. That's it. No one else!

Rest of all great Pakistani players were hard workers, honest with their work ethics, and had focus on the game and improvement. They were street fighters unlike our Babaa-e-tuk tuk.

Those greats of the past era truly strived to improve rather than, posing straight bat shots in the nets, in front of the camera.

Again, what we lack is the culture.

That is because nepotism is everywhere in Pak. The culture you are crying about can not exist when nepotism is the dominant factor. Every wealthy Uncle and Aunt want there kid's to be in the team. Lala Afridi was also a very talented player albeit an immature one in how he played the game. Hard work will come from hungry players who are chosen on merit unlike our current joker's.

 

[Varun]

I think we would have done better against the full English team than we have against the 2nd stringers. The 2nd stringers had nothing to lose and went for it. The full English team was beaten by PK in the WC and a match against them would have suited us as the under dogs.

I agree with this perspective.

 

[Savak]

We need to replicate what England did after 2015 WC. Yes I understand that we lack the talent pool for that sort of transformation but a direction needs to be set.

1. Appoint experienced, accomplished foreign coaches at national level and pay them what they ask. Andy Flower will be a good first catch. His work with MS has shown the importance of real coaches/managers at the top level. Say no to on job trainees (Misbah) and PT masters (Waqar).

2. There is a dire need of professional batting coaches at first class and junior levels. This is a hard problem to solve as Pakistan lacks such coaches and we cannot afford foreign coaches working at junior levels.

3. Instill professionalism and a winner's mentality among players at domestic level. Our players are often found doing OTT celebrations after taking wicket of batsmen like Chosoro ! Again better minds than me have to come up with a way to work on psychological aspects of our players.

4. Move towards stats and data based analysis and decision making. Our selectors believe in it, but team managements at national and domestic level don't.

5. Appoint a national captain who believes in the overall direction the system intends to move towards and has his own vision for it. Right now we have a proxy captain along with a head coach whose vision (or lack of it) is completely different for CS's.

The PCB can actually hire whoever they want regardless of the cost, just bring the Pak govt on board and get them to pump extra money to afford these coaches at the domestic level. Lol, then again the Pak Govt itself is bankrupt

 

[Energy]

The PCB can actually hire whoever they want regardless of the cost, just bring the Pak govt on board and get them to pump extra money to afford these coaches at the domestic level. Lol, then again the Pak Govt itself is bankrupt

This is both true, and sad.

With dwindling financial resources, lack of infrastructure and lack of a proper home season for more than a decade - makes you wonder if the team is actually punching above their weight by being mid-table.

 

[Greenstorm]

The PCB can actually hire whoever they want regardless of the cost, just bring the Pak govt on board and get them to pump extra money to afford these coaches at the domestic level. Lol, then again the Pak Govt itself is bankrupt

Problem is that a junior level coach associated with a domestic side has spend considerable time in the country and Pakistan is not a lucrative place to live for any coach from SENA, so we have to pay extra. Why will any coach want to change his lifestyle by living in Karachi or Peshawar ?
We can look into Srilankan coaches though, their batsmen are technically sound in general.

 

[Savak]

Problem is that a junior level coach associated with a domestic side has spend considerable time in the country and Pakistan is not a lucrative place to live for any coach from SENA, so we have to pay extra. Why will any coach want to change his lifestyle by living in Karachi or Peshawar ?
We can look into Srilankan coaches though, their batsmen are technically sound in general.

Grant Bradburn has a coaching role at the NCA and its a coaching/executive role and it requires him to stay in the country and actually live here. He is happily doing it without complaints. I see a lot of foreign faculty in Universities like IBA, LUMS or other top tier universities who accept teaching jobs which require them to live in the country for long time periods. The amount of Chinese people i have seen living in Pakistan in the last 10 years since CPEC was signed is tremendous.

This thing about Pakistan not being a good place for foreigners to live is exaggerated. If the pay and quality of life offered, promoted is right you can attract the right people.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

We need to replicate what England did after 2015 WC. Yes I understand that we lack the talent pool for that sort of transformation but a direction needs to be set.

1. Appoint experienced, accomplished foreign coaches at national level and pay them what they ask. Andy Flower will be a good first catch. His work with MS has shown the importance of real coaches/managers at the top level. Say no to on job trainees (Misbah) and PT masters (Waqar).

2. There is a dire need of professional batting coaches at first class and junior levels. This is a hard problem to solve as Pakistan lacks such coaches and we cannot afford foreign coaches working at junior levels.

3. Instill professionalism and a winner's mentality among players at domestic level. Our players are often found doing OTT celebrations after taking wicket of batsmen like Chosoro ! Again better minds than me have to come up with a way to work on psychological aspects of our players.

4. Move towards stats and data based analysis and decision making. Our selectors believe in it, but team managements at national and domestic level don't.

5. Appoint a national captain who believes in the overall direction the system intends to move towards and has his own vision for it. Right now we have a proxy captain along with a head coach whose vision (or lack of it) is completely different for CS's.

We also need to remove the basit ali, younis khan, razzaq type of ticking time bomb ex players from our set up straight away and make sure these serial leeches are never involved in an international set up again.

 

[Kroll]

For the sake of the fans health and mental well-being, PCT should be disbanded.

In addition Misbah/Waqar and the whole rotten PCB should be imprisoned for 5 years.

 

[Titan24]

This is both true, and sad.

With dwindling financial resources, lack of infrastructure and lack of a proper home season for more than a decade - makes you wonder if the team is actually punching above their weight by being mid-table.

PCB is one of the richer boards in world cricket. It had income of almost 5 bln PKR ($33 mln) in 2019, along with 14bln PKR in total assets increasing from 9 bln in 2018. Its top management spends millions of different perks and privileges. PCB is far from being poor.

Source: https://www.pcb.com.pk/downloads/Financial Statement for the year ended 30th June 2019.pdf

I am pretty sure if they want they can hire more expensive coach (Misbah was getting same amount as Mickey as per my knowledge), so its more to do with the vision than and allocating the budget for different things not having enough money.

Even locally there are more experienced and qualified coaches in Pak. If Misbah would have worked at domestic level and had the success like Moh Wasim or Abdul Razzaq than that selection would have been purely on merit and nobody would have questioned it. In his defence though the new domestic structure has started recently so that couldn’t have been a criteria when he was selected but still some other basic requirements could have been followed.

Post Misbah there would no excuse to not hire someone from domestic structure that have proved himself or hire a quality foreign coach.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think we would have done better against the full English team than we have against the 2nd stringers. The 2nd stringers had nothing to lose and went for it. The full English team was beaten by PK in the WC and a match against them would have suited us as the under dogs.

Not with this team. I don't believe you can carry passengers in England, you simply must have bowlers who can pitch in the right areas and offer some threat. Rauf, Faheem and Shadab don't do either.

Batting is a trickier problem, Pakistan have quite weak and defensive batsmen for the most part, but the team management seems to be imposing even more fear to the point where formerly dynamic batsmen like Fakhar are left fumbling in their crease. He should have been whacking those medium pace trundlers out of the ground instead of fishing and prodding to stay there with no purpose. Don't even get me started on Imam bouncer boy Haq.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Pakistan's problem comes down to one factor in ODI cricket: we still haven't found what suits us best.

Our batting is flawed, but then, we are in such a mess with our thinking.

For example: Fakhar Zaman is a very attacking opener, so it would seem like he is there to take advantage of the powerplay, otherwise we could have played someone like Abid and assured more sensibility at the top. However, instead of giving him another explosive partner, we pair him with Imam, who averages high but strikes at barely 80. So what's the logic? It's a weak mentality, because they don't want to take the risk of Fakhar falling alongside an explosive opener, so they send a camper at the top to score soft runs.

Another example: Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf have played perhaps 150+ international games combined, but no alternates have been tried. What's the logic: if you want to play a seam-bowling all-rounder, and your current one is playing horribly, try other options or just stop looking for that type of player.

We have no creativity or forward thinking. Our batting cannot cope with pressure at all, but the issue is that we aren't trying new things.

So many times, we've played it safe, but never gone into unexplored waters. If Fakhar doesn't perform, he's criticized for being too aggressive. People want assurances which they need to understand won't come anymore as we aren't a good cricketing nation.

The one thing I credit England for doing is not succumbing to assurances. They know their play style will bring them trouble when other teams are doing well. However, they don't cave into the pressure.

When England started in 2015 with this ultra-aggressive approach, they often went cold and lost games until they figured out their best combination. The issue is that we're losing games and not finding the right combinations.

I think Pakistan needs brave cricketers, which we unfortunately don't have.

My suggestion: open with Fakhar and Maqsood. Don't go for safety, try and get as many runs as possible.

 

[Bewal Express]

Not with this team. I don't believe you can carry passengers in England, you simply must have bowlers who can pitch in the right areas and offer some threat. Rauf, Faheem and Shadab don't do either.

Batting is a trickier problem, Pakistan have quite weak and defensive batsmen for the most part, but the team management seems to be imposing even more fear to the point where formerly dynamic batsmen like Fakhar are left fumbling in their crease. He should have been whacking those medium pace trundlers out of the ground instead of fishing and prodding to stay there with no purpose. Don't even get me started on Imam bouncer boy Haq.

First and foremost, a team that has one good batsman isn't going to win against good teams on a consistent basis. The problem with the bowling is that like the batting we lack quality. Rauf is dumb as a rock and although he has wickets in him, he is too thick to utilise his talent, maybe its not strategy but a problem of consistency of action but either way, he needs to take a rest. Faheem is in the team as an AR but his bowling again lacks consistency and he is an awful ODI batsman. But it's easy for all of us to state the obvious but no one has any solutions. Do we go back to awful Wahab, or the reluctant and over the hill Amir, or do we go to Dahani, a guy that has something but will have the same intelligence level as Rauf. There isn't any easy solutions.
I watched FZ innings yesterday and I don't believe he was instructed to play like that. He did the right thing after the loss of the early wickets and should have looked to bat the full innings

 

[Billa86]

Any major cleanup would not have any significant impact as our team posses very mediocre type of players which is quite evident in the past few series. The issue is these players have no dignity in losing or performing quite badly, whether its England B/C or South Africa B/C teams. Its 'US' the Pakistan loyal fans who suffer the most. We take time out from our busy schedule to watch, follow, spend money on high price tickets to witness such shambolic performances. I honestly do not mind losing but at least show some courage and fight till the end but these players are too concerned about paychecks and internal team politics.

I'm tired of listening after every bad match performance, 'We will try our best and fix these mistakes and so on'... Seriously... come on, who are they trying to fool with such words...(And we as Pakistan loyal fans fall for these words and raise our hopes once again)

Sometimes when I read Uncle [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s comments towards Pakistan cricket team, it hurts but to an extent he is spot on on his views. We as the fans have very high expectations from this team and the reality is we can just about compete with the likes of South Africa, West Indies, SriLanka, Bangladesh or Afghanistan, let alone England, India, Australia and New Zealand.

Pakistan cricket needs a wake up call ....

 

[Golden arm]

Those who are saying that Pakistan does not lack talent, can you please name a playing XI that would not embarrass the nation?

The reality is that you cannot. Whatever names you come up with will produce pathetic results because 99% of our players are pathetic.

They either have no talent, or they are thick as a planks, or they have no mentality.

Yes Misbah is a poor coach and that is a problem. However, the fact that our cricketers are poor is a far bigger problem.

Make Misbah the coach of England. Do you think with players like Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Root, Archer etc., he will struggle to win matches? Absolutely not.

Andy Flower is a far better coach than Misbah. However, if he is coaching Pakistan and Misbah is coaching England, England would still demolish Pakistan home and away in LOIs.

Our fans are always looking for scapegoats and will try to find punching bags because they are unwilling to accept that Pakistan lacks the capacity to produce top players.

Misbah has sheep mentality in terms of coaching
If you give him 12 tigers he would still manage to loose

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

First and foremost, a team that has one good batsman isn't going to win against good teams on a consistent basis. The problem with the bowling is that like the batting we lack quality. Rauf is dumb as a rock and although he has wickets in him, he is too thick to utilise his talent, maybe its not strategy but a problem of consistency of action but either way, he needs to take a rest. Faheem is in the team as an AR but his bowling again lacks consistency and he is an awful ODI batsman. But it's easy for all of us to state the obvious but no one has any solutions. Do we go back to awful Wahab, or the reluctant and over the hill Amir, or do we go to Dahani, a guy that has something but will have the same intelligence level as Rauf. There isn't any easy solutions.
I watched FZ innings yesterday and I don't believe he was instructed to play like that. He did the right thing after the loss of the early wickets and should have looked to bat the full innings

Honestly I would have given Arshad Iqbal or Imran Khan Jr. a spot ahead of any of those fast bowlers, certainly ahead of Rauf. They aren't super quick, but they bowl straight and hit the deck hard. They would have exploited these conditions better than Rauf in my opinion, but because they aren't lightning fast, they don't get the hype that others do.

 

[Bewal Express]

Honestly I would have given Arshad Iqbal or Imran Khan Jr. a spot ahead of any of those fast bowlers, certainly ahead of Rauf. They aren't super quick, but they bowl straight and hit the deck hard. They would have exploited these conditions better than Rauf in my opinion, but because they aren't lightning fast, they don't get the hype that others do.

In these conditions they would have been better, even the likes of Abbas would have been a handful. The problem is that those guys would be useless on dry, flat tracks.

 

[Nado_]

In these conditions they would have been better, even the likes of Abbas would have been a handful. The problem is that those guys would be useless on dry, flat tracks.

How comes teams don’t have a dynamic approach when it comes to fast bowlers and batsman based on suitable conditions. It’s like a grand insult to drop them if they can’t perform in certain conditions.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Bring back Arthur.... why was he sacked again.....
Keep Fakhar, Shadab, Rizwan, Baber and Shaheen Shah.

 

[Bewal Express]

How comes teams don’t have a dynamic approach when it comes to fast bowlers and batsman based on suitable conditions. It’s like a grand insult to drop them if they can’t perform in certain conditions.

Because they have a long term termish squad and you don't pick from outside for individuals games.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Talent is not overrated. You can never excel at the highest level if you do not have above average natural ability no matter how hardworking and determined you are.

Of course, if you do not work hard and are not focused, you will not excel even if you have talented.

The point is that hard work and determination complements talent; it cannot substitute talent.

If you do not have the talent, you can work your socks off but you will not succeed.

Shan Masood is probably the most hard working cricketer in Pakistan. His work ethic is exemplary and yet he is a failure because he is simply does not have the ability required to be a successful international cricketer.

As far as Australia is concerned, they have had a batting crisis during the previous decade. Apart from Smith and Warner, they have had filler batsmen through the years until the emergence of Labuschagne.

Between 2013 and 2019, they have selected some deeply mediocre batsmen. If Azhar and Shafiq were in Australia during this period, there is no doubt they would be in contention.

2016-17 version of Azhar who scored a double-century at the MCG and Shafiq who scored a century at the Gabba would definitely get a look-in in the 2017-18 Ashes squad.

No.
We don't want 11 Wasim Akram type talented players in the 11 player squad.
We don't need to find 11 naturally gifted geniuses.

The honesty with work ethics, grit, determination and focus backed up by hard work is the key to success. This has been a proven and well tested route to success, and I insist on it.

I heard it a couple of times that Shan Masood has some Virat kohli type fitness routine and he works very hard. I haven't see a glimpse of it anywhere though. He is still lethargic, low on energy, slow in reaction and generally seems to pose weak muscle build. Not sure what kinda "hard work" and "Fitness routine" he goes through on daily basis?

Or perhaps he falls in that 1% category that I mentioned above, where lack of talent trumps hard work, other wise, focus and grit supported by hard work trumps talent 99% of the times.

 

[cricketjoshila]

On one habd pakistani fans are upset at the loss versus a reserve English side.

Otoh they are using hasan ali's fifer against the same reserve side to hype him.

Matlab ye hai kis taraf.

 

[MenInG]

On one habd pakistani fans are upset at the loss versus a reserve English side.

Otoh they are using hasan ali's fifer against the same reserve side to hype him.

Matlab ye hai kis taraf.

Confusion in the ranks!

 

[indianpanacea]

ODI. T20
Haider Ali. Sharjeel
Azam khan. Fakhar
Babar. Sohaib maqsood
U.Akmal. Babar
Haris Sohail. Hafeez
Qasim Akram. Azam khan

 

[Nado_]

Because they have a long term termish squad and you don't pick from outside for individuals games.

I understand but would be innovative approach but then again the time in between overseas tours etc and player form plays a big factor. I suppose it is an impractical approach in that sense especially considering squad sizes too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

On one habd pakistani fans are upset at the loss versus a reserve English side.

Otoh they are using hasan ali's fifer against the same reserve side to hype him.

Matlab ye hai kis taraf.

Hasan Ali has been bowling brilliantly since his return to the side almost a year ago. He doesn't need a performance against England reserves to be hyped. Pak fans are right to recognise his quality, he is showing it consistently since his comeback.

 

[shaz619]

Hasan Ali has been bowling brilliantly since his return to the side almost a year ago. He doesn't need a performance against England reserves to be hyped. Pak fans are right to recognise his quality, he is showing it consistently since his comeback.

He is good but lacks consistency with his lines and lengths given the attacking instincts, it doesn’t help that outside Shaheen there is little support

 

[freezerburn]

If everyone acknowledged this issue, it could be dealt with, but Pak fans are too focused on surface problems when the real issue is bigger and under the surface. Everyone keeps repeating the same old management/selection/coaching/confidence/fearlessness/education drabble for reasons why Pak fails. The single biggest reason is lack of grounds and quality pitches at the domestic level. Pak pitches have zero bounce, outfields are garbage, there is no player development (players still coming off the street like Rauf), school grounds still have concrete/turf wickets etc.
Fire 75% of PCB payroll, invest that money into infrastructure and watch the results

 

[fieldMarshal]

Who is responsible for the debacle ie PCB ?

Who is responsible for the mess that is PCB
Imran khan for appointing ihsan mani as the chairman.
Ihsan mani for appointing waseem khan.
Waseem khan for appointing misbah as coach.
Misbah for bringing in waqar as his bowling coach.
Or all of them for appointing a timid and clueless Babar azam as captain.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

If everyone acknowledged this issue, it could be dealt with, but Pak fans are too focused on surface problems when the real issue is bigger and under the surface. Everyone keeps repeating the same old management/selection/coaching/confidence/fearlessness/education drabble for reasons why Pak fails. The single biggest reason is lack of grounds and quality pitches at the domestic level. Pak pitches have zero bounce, outfields are garbage, there is no player development (players still coming off the street like Rauf), school grounds still have concrete/turf wickets etc.
Fire 75% of PCB payroll, invest that money into infrastructure and watch the results

For the underlined above,
It's probably not a major factor.

Think about it, all past greats of Pak cricket were trained and played on the same wickets before stepping into the international arena.

However, in the past I did talk about it.

In order to create a few bouncy wickets, we can do a trial an error method to find the perfect ratio by adding powdered form of granite stone in the clay to create the wicket's surface.
We have to find a good mix. Perhaps 20% powdered granite stone, and 80% dirt/soil to start off with?

It will probably create bouncy wickets but it won't necessarily make the ball swing n seem. For that, you will need specialized balls.

One also one needs to be aware that there aren't too many wickets in the world that are fast and bouncy. Perth and Wanderes are two know ones. Rest are mostly in the same breadth with Pak wickets when it comes to bounce.
Playing swing n seem is the issue.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

playing short ball is also an issue; however, the problem is, neither the management/coaching staff nor the batsman see it coming.

And even if they do sense the opposition will ploy short bowling tactic, they don't have a counter strategy to cope with it. There is no idea to effectively practice and train against short pitched pace bowling.

So, soon as it starts coming their way, they start acting like a deer caught in the headlights.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

playing short ball is also an issue; however, the problem is, neither the management/coaching staff nor the batsman see it coming.

And even if they do sense the opposition will ploy short bowling tactic, they don't have a counter strategy to cope with it. There is no idea to effectively practice and train against short pitched pace bowling.

So, soon as it starts coming their way, they start acting like a deer caught in the headlights.

Imran Khan when he took his sides to face the great Windies teams of the age, made his batsmen practice against tennis balls in the nets to get used to the extra bounce and speed the ball would come through at. Probably quite rudimentary sessions by today's standards, but at least he addressed it.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Hasan Ali has been bowling brilliantly since his return to the side almost a year ago. He doesn't need a performance against England reserves to be hyped. Pak fans are right to recognise his quality, he is showing it consistently since his comeback.

He is good but still finding difficult to bowl with the new ball.. Currently there is no newball bowler to pair with Shaheen..

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Those who are saying that Pakistan does not lack talent, can you please name a playing XI that would not embarrass the nation?

The reality is that you cannot. Whatever names you come up with will produce pathetic results because 99% of our players are pathetic.

They either have no talent, or they are thick as a planks, or they have no mentality.

Yes Misbah is a poor coach and that is a problem. However, the fact that our cricketers are poor is a far bigger problem.

Make Misbah the coach of England. Do you think with players like Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Root, Archer etc., he will struggle to win matches? Absolutely not.

Andy Flower is a far better coach than Misbah. However, if he is coaching Pakistan and Misbah is coaching England, England would still demolish Pakistan home and away in LOIs.

Our fans are always looking for scapegoats and will try to find punching bags because they are unwilling to accept that Pakistan lacks the capacity to produce top players.

The same team would have done better under a different coach..

Almost the same team that played well enough in 2019 scoring 340+ every game , though they lost 4-0 to that strong Eng team. They didnt even look to lose this badly... Yes bowlers from both sides fail to stop the run flow..

Struggling to score 200 and losing half the team under 90 runs was Misbahi trend , it happened regularly during his captaincy days and now they are slowly going back to that era..

Give the world best 11 and Misbah/Waqar would still find a way to lose , it is indeed a talent on how to make a team lose..

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Imran Khan when he took his sides to face the great Windies teams of the age, made his batsmen practice against tennis balls in the nets to get used to the extra bounce and speed the ball would come through at. Probably quite rudimentary sessions by today's standards, but at least he addressed it.

Yep. I clearly remember that.
And believe it or not, this is where "tape ball" cricket was introduced in Pakistan.

IK put electrical tape around the ball to make it skid and sharply rise, something that was not possible with the regular hairy surface of a tennis ball.

I think it can still be practiced, if nothing else.

They can start with regular taped tennis ball, build the muscle memory, improve the hand eye coordination, correct the footwork and body posture, and then move to putting tape around a "heavy tennis ball" and practice playing short balls.

This is a specialized Indian cricket tennis ball that weighs the same as or slightly more, than a regular 5.5 Oz leather cricket ball.

It has a significant bounce and it could cause serious damage if the batsman is not fully protected.

Batsmen should pad up in the nets as if he is playing against a leather ball, and then practice hitting the short ball with a heavy tennis ball wrapped around in electrical tape.

This should be part of a rigorous daily practice in the nets together with other drills.

My blood boils when they pose straight bat strokes in the nets in front of the camera for news reporting.

 

[freezerburn]

For the underlined above,
It's probably not a major factor.

Think about it, all past greats of Pak cricket were trained and played on the same wickets before stepping into the international arena.

However, in the past I did talk about it.

In order to create a few bouncy wickets, we can do a trial an error method to find the perfect ratio by adding powdered form of granite stone in the clay to create the wicket's surface.
We have to find a good mix. Perhaps 20% powdered granite stone, and 80% dirt/soil to start off with?

It will probably create bouncy wickets but it won't necessarily make the ball swing n seem. For that, you will need specialized balls.

One also one needs to be aware that there aren't too many wickets in the world that are fast and bouncy. Perth and Wanderes are two know ones. Rest are mostly in the same breadth with Pak wickets when it comes to bounce.
Playing swing n seem is the issue.

Disagree with you a little, the ball swings plenty in pak domestic cricket, especially before they changed balls. The main thing is bounce and pace of the wickets. Pak pitches are very quick and have gotten a little quicker, but the ball generally skids on. This is why majority of Pak batsmen have a front foot trigger movement.

The other problem is, just the general lack of pitches in Pakistan for the club level and below cricketers

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Disagree with you a little, the ball swings plenty in pak domestic cricket, especially before they changed balls. The main thing is bounce and pace of the wickets. Pak pitches are very quick and have gotten a little quicker, but the ball generally skids on. This is why majority of Pak batsmen have a front foot trigger movement.

The other problem is, just the general lack of pitches in Pakistan for the club level and below cricketers

Then the counter argument is, traditionally India has even worse pitches than us. Graveyard for pace bowlers and heaven for batsmen, yet they have kept the heritage and tradition of producing great batsman on continuous basis.

In their domestic cricket, we often hear school kids score triple centuries in school tournaments.

May be a 50 can be fluke or a 100 can be a fluke,,,, but you can't score a triple century in a fluke. It requires focus, grit, technique and training.

We simply don't have that batting culture.

We had the tradition of producing pace bowlers, that we also miserably lost. It's all the lack of sporting culture.

Our kids are now more focused on social media, and internet addiction with no concept of school level cricket by our cricket admins at PCB.

 

[iniqbal223]

Has Misbah completed his hospital

He will be here till his hospital construction is completed

 

[Mamoon]

Yep. I clearly remember that.
And believe it or not, this is where "tape ball" cricket was introduced in Pakistan.

IK put electrical tape around the ball to make it skid and sharply rise, something that was not possible with the regular hairy surface of a tennis ball.

I think it can still be practiced, if nothing else.

They can start with regular taped tennis ball, build the muscle memory, improve the hand eye coordination, correct the footwork and body posture, and then move to putting tape around a "heavy tennis ball" and practice playing short balls.

This is a specialized Indian cricket tennis ball that weighs the same as or slightly more, than a regular 5.5 Oz leather cricket ball.

It has a significant bounce and it could cause serious damage if the batsman is not fully protected.

Batsmen should pad up in the nets as if he is playing against a leather ball, and then practice hitting the short ball with a heavy tennis ball wrapped around in electrical tape.

This should be part of a rigorous daily practice in the nets together with other drills.

My blood boils when they pose straight bat strokes in the nets in front of the camera for news reporting.

Oh bhai, tape ball cricket started in Pakistan in Karachi in the 1960s. It has absolutely nothing to do with Imran Khan.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

They probably are, and the lack of talent in Pakistan is exposed every year in PSL.

We are an awful team in spite of playing the best players in the country. That sums up everything.

We are simply not good enough. That is all.

i disagree , we don't lack talent we lack a system to find this talent.

 

[Mamoon]

i disagree , we don't lack talent we lack a system to find this talent.

Talent and system go hand in hand. Talent is a product of the system.

Purely in terms of raw ability, you will find people in Europe, East Asia and South America who have natural characteristics to be great cricketers.

These countries have produced successful tennis players, and a person with a lot of natural ability to play tennis has all the characteristics to transfer those skills to batting because there are a lot of similarities there. If these countries properly invest in cricket, they will develop talented cricketers as well.

Pakistani fans blow the talent trumpet as if the Almighty decided to bless this country with more natural talent for cricket than any country and there are world class players waiting to be identified.

That is absolute nonsense. There are no world class players waiting to be picked in Pakistan. The players playing are the best in the country, and they are not good enough to be considered world class barring maybe 1-2.

Pakistan is an unprofessional and mediocre cricket team. That would have been the case throughout the course of history, but two things saved Pakistan for decades – player development in County cricket and ball-tampering with bottle caps introduced by Sarfraz Nawaz which ushered an era of reverse-swing.

Once counties stopped grooming our players and once blatant ball-tampering became difficult to achieve due to better cameras and greater scrutiny, our cricket has nose-divided.

The type of ball-tampering that Pakistan did in England in 1992 is simply not possible today. It won’t take more than a session for them to get caught red-handed.

Over the last 30 years, Pakistan has not produced a single team that played world class cricket for a considerable period of time. We have had some success but it has been short-lived and patchy.

The 1985-1992 Pakistan was the last great Pakistan team. Since then, it has been nothing but mediocrity but with a few highs every now and then. A lot of it has to do with the 1992 World Cup which destroyed our cricket culture for good.

It gave birth to the unpredictability and cornered tigers nonsense which made Pakistan cricket fall in love with its own mediocrity.

We romanticize inconsistency and rebrand it as unpredictability. It is nothing to be proud of.

We jump up and down and start dancing when someone like Nasser Hussain comes with a cliche that you can never expect which Pakistan will turn up, one minute up, next minute down bla bla as if it is something to be proud of.

It is not. It should be a source of embarrassment.

Pakistan simply does not know what it takes to create a winning culture and achieve consistency. Success is a process and you to have build towards it.

Nothing will happen in the future either. 15-20 years down the line, we will still be poster boys of mediocrity and will keep talking about the future while romanticizing our own mediocrity.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Oh bhai, tape ball cricket started in Pakistan in Karachi in the 1960s. It has absolutely nothing to do with Imran Khan.

Probably you are right or at least I am wrong.

I now vividly remember I was in middle school in 1980 when tape ball was first introduced to us by a few senior students of grade 9th and 10th.

I stand corrected.
Thanks.

 

[Energy]

Talent and system go hand in hand. Talent is a product of the system.

Purely in terms of raw ability, you will find people in Europe, East Asia and South America who have natural characteristics to be great cricketers.

These countries have produced successful tennis players, and a person with a lot of natural ability to play tennis has all the characteristics to transfer those skills to batting because there are a lot of similarities there. If these countries properly invest in cricket, they will develop talented cricketers as well.

Pakistani fans blow the talent trumpet as if the Almighty decided to bless this country with more natural talent for cricket than any country and there are world class players waiting to be identified.

That is absolute nonsense. There are no world class players waiting to be picked in Pakistan. The players playing are the best in the country, and they are not good enough to be considered world class barring maybe 1-2.

Pakistan is an unprofessional and mediocre cricket team. That would have been the case throughout the course of history, but two things saved Pakistan for decades – player development in County cricket and ball-tampering with bottle caps introduced by Sarfraz Nawaz which ushered an era of reverse-swing.

Once counties stopped grooming our players and once blatant ball-tampering became difficult to achieve due to better cameras and greater scrutiny, our cricket has nose-divided.

The type of ball-tampering that Pakistan did in England in 1992 is simply not possible today. It won’t take more than a session for them to get caught red-handed.

Over the last 30 years, Pakistan has not produced a single team that played world class cricket for a considerable period of time. We have had some success but it has been short-lived and patchy.

The 1985-1992 Pakistan was the last great Pakistan team. Since then, it has been nothing but mediocrity but with a few highs every now and then. A lot of it has to do with the 1992 World Cup which destroyed our cricket culture for good.

It gave birth to the unpredictability and cornered tigers nonsense which made Pakistan cricket fall in love with its own mediocrity.

We romanticize inconsistency and rebrand it as unpredictability. It is nothing to be proud of.

We jump up and down and start dancing when someone like Nasser Hussain comes with a cliche that you can never expect which Pakistan will turn up, one minute up, next minute down bla bla as if it is something to be proud of.

It is not. It should be a source of embarrassment.

Pakistan simply does not know what it takes to create a winning culture and achieve consistency. Success is a process and you to have build towards it.

Nothing will happen in the future either. 15-20 years down the line, we will still be poster boys of mediocrity and will keep talking about the future while romanticizing our own mediocrity.

Good post and accurate analysis of how our cricket has constantly declined but we haven't done anything about it due to one-off highs.

 

[IndianMafia]

Reading all the comments. I feel there seems to be so many issues going on with Pakistan cricket. But to be very honest, there are small issues , some unnoticed , buried in all aspects of Pakistan cricket.

--> Someone pointed there's no sporting culture, is that not true even for India and Bangladesh. it's just that the cricketing board were able to manage somehow. You need a smart marketing team to make sure that there are few superstar in the team people/youngster look upon.

-- > Talent vs Hard work , again there's no standard definition or formula for that. Identifying the talent and making them the finished products entirely lies in the system [system includes ,cricketing board , domestic coaches, etc]

Give a free hand to the captain. Let him choose the players. Just make sure he has enough players to select from. When you drop a players , point out the issues he has to work upon and document it.
the culture has to start from the highest stage. it will slowly start reflecting on the rest of the system.

Bring a super coach aka performance director on top of these already selected coaches to oversee all the other issues.

My point is take one issue at a time and start looking for solutions.

 

[Manzy2599]

It is what it is. If you sign a 3 year contract with someone, you have to see it through, if you sack someone repeatedly you give the impression to the next applicant that there is no job security.

In any case Pakistan went to Misbah because other foreign coaches did not express interest

Pakistan went to Misbah cause he’s Imran khans distant relative and he called his old pal Ehsan mani to give Misbah the job. Not because others didn’t express interest, but because IK wanted to play it safe with Misbah taking over Pakistan cricket cause he promised the country “tabdeeli” and change and if he can’t lift Pakistan cricket how will he lift the country. There’s no other country in the world where someone with no coaching credentials and several conflicts of interest would be handed as many roles as Misbah got with full authority and was also in the meeting that decided Mickey Arthur’s fate. The PCB is in shambles and so is the government. Shame on them and their selected army puppet.

 

[mystical man]

The bottom-line is that there is no talent in Pakistan. We have zero world class players/talents coming through and we need to accept that we are simply not good enough.

Pakistan is in the same league as teams like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies.

The problem is not the team; the problem is the expectation level of the fans.

There is a huge gulf between what the fans except from the team and what the actual capability of the team is.

Our fans have the attitude and arrogance of the top sides but the players do not have the ability to justify the faith of the fans.

It is not the players fault that they have no talent and are mentally weak. They are trying their best but they are just not good enough.

The fans must lower their expectations.

This was a bad series and they will bounce back in the T20 format.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This is not a knee jerk reaction at all , this series defeat should be the last push of coaches management etc. Wee need a major change up and different mindset on how we are electing our players. Only our selectors will choose players based on performances from a Mickey Mouse league, rather than do what they are actually paid for and scout players from the domestic matches. It’s criminal how they continue to select players like Haris Rauf who’s only game plan is to bowl as fast as he can and Shadab Khan a pseudo all rounder who’s only standout performance was in his debut psl where the pitches were turning square.

An iota worth of chance that we had to see some changes happening in the team's management, are now gone down the drain since we will end the ODI series with a "VICTORY !!!!".

Now, even if we lose the T20 by 0-3, Misbah and Waqar will hide behind today's victory and thump their chests by highlight the great win when the team is in "rebuilding process" (which it has been for the last 2 decades).

 

[Colorblind Genius]

An iota worth of chance that we had to see some changes happening in the team's management, are now gone down the drain since we will end the ODI series with a "VICTORY !!!!".

Now, even if we lose the T20 by 0-3, Misbah and Waqar will hide behind today's victory and thump their chests by highlight the great win when the team is in "rebuilding process" (which it has been for the last 2 decades).

LOL HAHAHAHAHHAHA.
Didn't this age well?

Oh man. I can't believe this team will disappoint me to this point.

Well, the positive take away is, we still have that "iota worth of chance" to see some major changes in the form of Misbah and Waqar being shown the door for good.

 

[srh]

Imran Khan when he took his sides to face the great Windies teams of the age, made his batsmen practice against tennis balls in the nets to get used to the extra bounce and speed the ball would come through at. Probably quite rudimentary sessions by today's standards, but at least he addressed it.

Yep. I clearly remember that.
And believe it or not, this is where "tape ball" cricket was introduced in Pakistan.

IK put electrical tape around the ball to make it skid and sharply rise, something that was not possible with the regular hairy surface of a tennis ball.

I think it can still be practiced, if nothing else.

They can start with regular taped tennis ball, build the muscle memory, improve the hand eye coordination, correct the footwork and body posture, and then move to putting tape around a "heavy tennis ball" and practice playing short balls.

This is a specialized Indian cricket tennis ball that weighs the same as or slightly more, than a regular 5.5 Oz leather cricket ball.

It has a significant bounce and it could cause serious damage if the batsman is not fully protected.

Batsmen should pad up in the nets as if he is playing against a leather ball, and then practice hitting the short ball with a heavy tennis ball wrapped around in electrical tape.

This should be part of a rigorous daily practice in the nets together with other drills.

My blood boils when they pose straight bat strokes in the nets in front of the camera for news reporting.

To be honest all those ideas you are attributing towards Imran Khan were most likely brainchild of Javed Miandad. I have been told that he was really the brain behind and Imran Khan was the enforcer of the ideas.

 

[mon858]

1. we have to admit we are officially a mid tier team.

2. expect to lose 8/10 when playing top 4-5 nations (unless their main players are playing IPL, then it can be close, or a fluke performance by someone and horrible day for their side).

3. we would compete well against other mid-tier teams (WI/SL/BD, etc.)

4. replacing PCB heads, selectors, coaches, captains and entire team XI will not change results overnight. People bashing all the players who played this series cannot provide any alternative players that are statistically better than the current playing XI at domestic/international level (1 or 2 exceptions would not matter - e.g. saying Imad Wasim is better than shadab, etc.).

5. once you agree and accept the brutal facts, then you assess current state, identify root causes and set a roadmap and strategy for next 3-5 years target of being a top 3 team again. YOU CANNOT GET THEIR OVERNIGHT.

6. This means making some straegic plans and investments, for e.g. (not full list):
A. investing in grass roots cricket again, format School / Club cricket programs. coaching of coaches at those levels
B. Improving academies and more of those in regions with professional coaching/fitness program setups
C. Hiring top professional foreign coach/leader as director of cricket or some type of role to devise plan, identify key talent at U19/domestic level / train the coaches / devise pathway for improving overall team (kind of like reset that England did in 2015).
D. Removal of some people that have been in charge of things multiple times and failed (e.g. Misbah/Waqar)
E. Getting rid of dead-weight with no big potential for next 3-5 years, investing in younger resources that may also fail and lose 8/10 against top teams but will develop during that process
F. Increase U19 / A team tours to other countries, ideally few months before tours to those

6. Increased emphasis on going through process of first class cricket vs picking players after 1 or 2 t20 psl performance

7. after some time you may see some improvements, but likely it may take around 3-5 years.

That is my honest view of current state and potential future improvement path. otherwise we can keep recycling from same set of 30 players , recycle coaches, selectors, get happy at odd wins here and there or in home condition, and then start knee-jerk thread after every defeat not realizing the problem is more systemic and long-term in nature rather than temporary requiring tactical change.

 

[Savak]

1. we have to admit we are officially a mid tier team.

2. expect to lose 8/10 when playing top 4-5 nations (unless their main players are playing IPL, then it can be close, or a fluke performance by someone and horrible day for their side).

3. we would compete well against other mid-tier teams (WI/SL/BD, etc.)

4. replacing PCB heads, selectors, coaches, captains and entire team XI will not change results overnight. People bashing all the players who played this series cannot provide any alternative players that are statistically better than the current playing XI at domestic/international level (1 or 2 exceptions would not matter - e.g. saying Imad Wasim is better than shadab, etc.).

5. once you agree and accept the brutal facts, then you assess current state, identify root causes and set a roadmap and strategy for next 3-5 years target of being a top 3 team again. YOU CANNOT GET THEIR OVERNIGHT.

6. This means making some straegic plans and investments, for e.g. (not full list):
A. investing in grass roots cricket again, format School / Club cricket programs. coaching of coaches at those levels
B. Improving academies and more of those in regions with professional coaching/fitness program setups
C. Hiring top professional foreign coach/leader as director of cricket or some type of role to devise plan, identify key talent at U19/domestic level / train the coaches / devise pathway for improving overall team (kind of like reset that England did in 2015).
D. Removal of some people that have been in charge of things multiple times and failed (e.g. Misbah/Waqar)
E. Getting rid of dead-weight with no big potential for next 3-5 years, investing in younger resources that may also fail and lose 8/10 against top teams but will develop during that process
F. Increase U19 / A team tours to other countries, ideally few months before tours to those

6. Increased emphasis on going through process of first class cricket vs picking players after 1 or 2 t20 psl performance

7. after some time you may see some improvements, but likely it may take around 3-5 years.

That is my honest view of current state and potential future improvement path. otherwise we can keep recycling from same set of 30 players , recycle coaches, selectors, get happy at odd wins here and there or in home condition, and then start knee-jerk thread after every defeat not realizing the problem is more systemic and long-term in nature rather than temporary requiring tactical change.

I would like to also add to your list the following

- Making the coaching and selection of players for the limited overs format a specialized job. Have a seperate coach and specialist test players for the test format for the most part for both the national team and at the domestic level. This is what England did after the 2015 ODI WC and it has paid huge dividends for them today. Each domestic Limited overs and T-20 side needs to invest in a power hitting coach.

The PCB hierarchy needs to understand and respect that power hitting is now a science and not just blind tullah. Our players hit the ball as if they are playing street cricket.

 

[sharmaji]

I feel sorry for the Pak fans. I saw the first innings and Babar's innings and thought Pak will cruise to victory and went to bed. And I wake up to see Pak lost the match. It's never nice to see your team lose from a winning position. You guys deserve the best from your team and they didn't deliver in this series. It is quite disappointing.

Many posters are giving good advice here on this thread, I hope the PCB management reads these posts on PP and picks a few good ideas to improve Pak cricket.

Good thing is Babar is back and roaring and Rizwan is among runs. Hope the T20 series will be a better result for Pak and more Pak players regain their form.

 

[criclover2311]

Pakistan cannot afford too many changes in LOIS(in batting), we should polish and back current.

Atleast for few years till our domestic system start producing modern standard batsmen reserves like England and India have, Sohaib Maqsood Sharjeel Khan Azam Khan Fakhar are the best we have and they should be encouraged to follow examples of Babar Azam and Rizwan should work in nets the way Babar improved his hitting, some of them like Maqsood is weak against leg spin e.t.c
but instead of coming under media pressure and short sighted fans and management dropping players they need to see bigger picture not only for the sake of future but also because our reserves are practically empty, next we have likes of Khusdil Asif Ali and Khurram Manzoor, hopefully PSL will change that but until then we cannot afford it.

Many fans bring up their favorites or local favorites like Sahibzada Farhan, someone will say bring Shoaib Malik, all of them neither follow PCT too closely or are short sighted, some even want Fawad Alam in LOIS. If your claim that we should drop current lot of players then name your reserve, we do not have single batsmen of Sohaib Maqsood Calibre who played PSL this season, system will change the game not a single player, Fawad is product of system.

Instead focus of Misbah and lot should not be bilateral series and personal PR rather they should build system like England, they trained and backed players like Butler, taught him science of power hitting, their domestic system, clubs focus on modern cricket like power hitting while ours focus on traditional play that's why most of domestic players like Saud Shakeel Abdullah Shafiq sat out in PSL.