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Massacres carried out against Kashmiris

And you're not going to condemn and try to fix those bad apples (litterally where ever they're deployed on mass numbers rape allegations follow so "bad apple" is just a slap on the wrist type argument) instead focus will be on whataboutism to win a argument on a forum...

There would be no whataboutism if both sides accepted that there have been mistakes committed instead of merely blaming the other.

There have been atrocities committed in Kashmir by both the Kashmiri militants and the Indian security forces. And they are all condemnable. Accept that fact, and you'll have no whataboutism.

What we are seeing from the likes of you, [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] and several others is only a condemnation of India's actions, and not an admittance that terrible atrocities have been committed by the Kashmiri militants too. Hence you lose all credibility.

It's also the reason why most of the World doesn't take Pakistan seriously on Kashmir. A country whose record on human rights is dubious at best has no business pointing fingers at others.
 
There would be no whataboutism if both sides accepted that there have been mistakes committed instead of merely blaming the other.
What accepting Pakistan isn't even in the picture this is an Indian Army in Kashmir fighting a rebellion, I don't know where Pakistan is coming from

There have been atrocities committed in Kashmir by both the Kashmiri militants and the Indian security forces. And they are all condemnable. Accept that fact, and you'll have no whataboutism.
With great power comes great responsibility
Is a democratic state and its institution in same moral equivalent to a bunch of militias with loose leadership, motives
You can't compare both things its like apple and cheese for god’ sake

What we are seeing from the likes of you, [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] and several others is only a condemnation of India's actions, and not an admittance that terrible atrocities have been committed by the Kashmiri militants too. Hence you lose all credibility.
(This is from your presepective you consider them terrorists, militants and not freedom fighters, so they are the bad guys and you are the good guys)
one side you have "militants" on the other democratic state army
from where are they equal?
like it's kinda like comparing a gang and in response to it police ending up massacring a bunch of locals as revenge
and then saying look these police officers did some bad things but for us to acknowledge that we all have to acknowledge that the gang members also did some bad things (thus almost justifying the whole situation but in the process you lost all the moral superiority state had enriched on these officers and in the end all of them end up becoming the bad guys fighting other bad guys - as they are the moral equivalents)

If you want to follow that route than you can't claim that Indian army is there taking care of the people and protecting tham

In this scenario Indian army is an evil institution fighting an equally evil enemy - This fight isn't/was never abut protecting the people of Kashmir from these militants but about maintaining the status quo

It's also the reason why most of the World doesn't take Pakistan seriously on Kashmir. A country whose record on human rights is dubious at best has no business pointing fingers at others.
again with Pakistan it's a thread related to Indian Army and its atrocities in Kashmir I don't what's up with pakistan army and this thread
I am not going to bring up Indian Army when someone is discussing role of Pak army and whatever bad things they are doing
its lunacy, I mean what difference does it make to the actual situation being discussed rn
....
 
It is reported like any other story. But does any government believe it? They would cut all the ties with India if they believed it.

You see, You and I can throw allegations on each other. It will only increase our post count. What matters is, does any outside party believes in this? You know the rest.

Everybody believes it. Read my first new article on this issue to get an idea.
And What gibberish are you writing? Lol Do you live in the same world as the rest of us? So you think nations would cut off ties with each other over atrocities in another countries? Are you so geopolitically dumb?

You have Pakistani flag on your profile. Hence I brought in Pak Fauj into it. There is no derailing on my part. Everything I posted in relevant. There will always be bad elements in every army. Does not make the entire army bad. Same goes for Indian army and Pakistan Army.

For Kashmiris, your entire army is bad because it is a manifestation of hindutva colonialism of Kashmir. Dont go around telling me what to feel about it when we have to see their ugly faces everyday on the streets.
 
There would be no whataboutism if both sides accepted that there have been mistakes committed instead of merely blaming the other.

There have been atrocities committed in Kashmir by both the Kashmiri militants and the Indian security forces. And they are all condemnable. Accept that fact, and you'll have no whataboutism.

What we are seeing from the likes of you, [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] and several others is only a condemnation of India's actions, and not an admittance that terrible atrocities have been committed by the Kashmiri militants too. Hence you lose all credibility.

It's also the reason why most of the World doesn't take Pakistan seriously on Kashmir. A country whose record on human rights is dubious at best has no business pointing fingers at others.

Utter tosh as expected from Indians when it comes to Kashmir.

The militants wouldnt exist if there was no hindutva colonization of Kashmir by India. The root of the problem is India and to equate this elephant in the room with the counter reaction from Kashmiris is classic propaganda aimed at de-legitimising the legitimate and just struggle of Kashmiris for their rights.
 
Denial is not the answer. Its painful just reading the stories coming from the two villages. Lives have been affected, there is no denying that.

The least the SC can do is restart the proceedings in this case. But Iam not expecting anything soon and it seems neither do these families.
 
Yesterday was the anniversary of Zakoora Massacre

1 March 1990, When Troopers Massacred 51 Unarmed Protesters
Srinagar, Feb 28: Memories of the carnages carried out by Army at Zakoora Crossing and Tengpora in the city outskirts 19 years ago are still fresh in the minds of the eyewitnesses and survivors of the tragedy. Fifty-one unarmed civilians were killed and dozens more injured when the Army soldiers fired indiscriminately on them on March 1, 1990.
It was the time when the entire Valley was demanding freedom from India and protesting against the atrocities of Jagmohan regime, that a procession of over 1500 protesters headed towards the Srinagar office of the United Nations to submit a memorandum seeking freedom from India.
Eyewitnesses, most of them shopkeepers at the crossing, said the protesters, clad in shrouds, were immersed in the din of Azadi (Freedom) slogans when a convoy of five Army vehicles led by three Junior Commissioned Officers was returning from Sonamarg to Srinagar but found the road blocked near the crossing.
They said three policemen, guarding the crossing, asked the soldiers to wait till the protesters pass. This led to a heated argument between the policemen and soldiers, they added.
“An Army official told the cops ‘give way or we’ll shoot you’,” the shopkeepers said. “Within minutes, the convoy turned towards the demonstration and the soldiers opened fire from three machine guns fitted over the vehicles.”
A survivor of the massacre, Muhammad Iqbal (name changed) of Zakoora, said 11 people died on the spot, and many more succumbed to their injuries on way to the SK Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura.
Iqbal said 26 civilians were killed and some 50 more injured in the incident, which is today remembered as the Zakoora massacre.
“The mayhem lasted for three hours. None from the civil administration came to the rescue of people,” he added.
Only the locals rushed there ferrying the injured to hospitals, said Ali Muhammad Mir, one of the eyewitnesses, insisting that the protesters had no clash or argument with the Army. “The firing was simply unprovoked,” he recounted.
Until recently, Mir said a 50-year-old survivor of the carnage, a deaf would often visit the tragic place as his son was one among the killed protesters. “But for the past two years, he too didn’t turn up,” Mir added.


ANOTHER MASSACRE
Twenty-one more people were killed at about 5 pm by the Army soldiers who fired at a bus near Tengpora on the same day. They too were unarmed. The dead included five women.
Next day, global human rights watchdog Amnesty International issued an appeal for urgent action on Tengpora and Zakoora massacres. A detailed account appeared in the March 31, 1990 issue of the Economic and Political Weekly of Bombay, which reproduced the text of “India’s Kashmir War” by a team of four members of the Committee for Initiative on Kashmir.

https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/more/news/zakura-tengpora-carnages-haunt-survivors/
 
Yesterday was the anniversary of Zakoora Massacre

1 March 1990, When Troopers Massacred 51 Unarmed Protesters
Srinagar, Feb 28: Memories of the carnages carried out by Army at Zakoora Crossing and Tengpora in the city outskirts 19 years ago are still fresh in the minds of the eyewitnesses and survivors of the tragedy. Fifty-one unarmed civilians were killed and dozens more injured when the Army soldiers fired indiscriminately on them on March 1, 1990.
It was the time when the entire Valley was demanding freedom from India and protesting against the atrocities of Jagmohan regime, that a procession of over 1500 protesters headed towards the Srinagar office of the United Nations to submit a memorandum seeking freedom from India.
Eyewitnesses, most of them shopkeepers at the crossing, said the protesters, clad in shrouds, were immersed in the din of Azadi (Freedom) slogans when a convoy of five Army vehicles led by three Junior Commissioned Officers was returning from Sonamarg to Srinagar but found the road blocked near the crossing.
They said three policemen, guarding the crossing, asked the soldiers to wait till the protesters pass. This led to a heated argument between the policemen and soldiers, they added.
“An Army official told the cops ‘give way or we’ll shoot you’,” the shopkeepers said. “Within minutes, the convoy turned towards the demonstration and the soldiers opened fire from three machine guns fitted over the vehicles.”
A survivor of the massacre, Muhammad Iqbal (name changed) of Zakoora, said 11 people died on the spot, and many more succumbed to their injuries on way to the SK Institute of Medical Sciences, Soura.
Iqbal said 26 civilians were killed and some 50 more injured in the incident, which is today remembered as the Zakoora massacre.
“The mayhem lasted for three hours. None from the civil administration came to the rescue of people,” he added.
Only the locals rushed there ferrying the injured to hospitals, said Ali Muhammad Mir, one of the eyewitnesses, insisting that the protesters had no clash or argument with the Army. “The firing was simply unprovoked,” he recounted.
Until recently, Mir said a 50-year-old survivor of the carnage, a deaf would often visit the tragic place as his son was one among the killed protesters. “But for the past two years, he too didn’t turn up,” Mir added.


ANOTHER MASSACRE
Twenty-one more people were killed at about 5 pm by the Army soldiers who fired at a bus near Tengpora on the same day. They too were unarmed. The dead included five women.
Next day, global human rights watchdog Amnesty International issued an appeal for urgent action on Tengpora and Zakoora massacres. A detailed account appeared in the March 31, 1990 issue of the Economic and Political Weekly of Bombay, which reproduced the text of “India’s Kashmir War” by a team of four members of the Committee for Initiative on Kashmir.

https://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/more/news/zakura-tengpora-carnages-haunt-survivors/

Opening machine gun on unarmed protestors, that's only thing the Indian Army was ever good at.

I wonder whether the officers who ordered this massacre were given Bharat Ratna.
This country did make Modi the Muslim Killer of Gujarat prime minister.
 
Yesterday was the anniversary of Chittisinghpora massacre

'Names of killers still reverberate in my ears': 19 years after Chittisinghpora massacre, lone survivor recounts night that killed 35 Sikhs
Chittisinghpora massacre: Nineteen years ago on 20 March, 2000, 35 Sikh men were killed in cold blood by a group of masked gunmen in army fatigues; Nanak, the lone survivor of the killing recounts the horrific night

Eighteen years ago on 20 March, 2000, 35 Sikh men were killed in cold blood by a group of masked gunmen in army fatigues

The massacre was carried out to give a wrong message about Kashmir to former US President Bill Clinton, who was visiting India, says Nanak, lone survivor of the massacre
'It was a premeditated massacre.
We only saw a flawed inquiry and later, fake promises,' he adds
'We have lost hope of justice,' says Nanak as the massacre continues to be shrouded in mystery even after 19 years

Anantnag: It was 20 March, 2000. The sky was murky and overcast. Just after dusk, worshippers were walking back home from the temples in the Sikh-dominated Chittisinghpora village in south Kashmir’s Anantnag district. Some were chatting by the roadside while the women were busy preparing dinner.

It was a routine evening. Nobody would have thought that the small pastoral hamlet with a stunning natural landscape was about to change, that the idyll would be shrouded in horror and distress.

A group of masked gunmen in army fatigues barged into the village. They split into two groups and rounded up 36 Sikhs, including teenagers, the young and the elderly. They made two groups of Sikhs stand outside the two gurdwaras in the area located just 150 metres apart. The terrified Sikhs were unsure what was going to happen when in unison, both groups of gunmen fired indiscriminately at point-blank range. All, except Nanak Singh, then 39, died.
The gunmen left, leaving behind a trail of dark memories that still haunt the villagers. The massacre had sent shockwaves across India. Around 30 women were left widowed and scores of children were orphaned that dreadful night.
The memories of the carnage are still fresh in Nanak's mind. The soft-spoken and grey-bearded survivor of the Chittisinghpora massacre is a retired government employee. He lost his son, brother and three cousins that night. This is his recount of the tragedy:

Winter had just passed in Kashmir. It was still a bit cold outside. I had donned a pheran. Like every day, we were gossiping as we walked home from the temple. A group of gunmen in army fatigues entered our village through a narrow lane from the back, their faces were covered with a mask. Their sudden presence didn’t frighten us as it was normal during those days. We thought they were fauji (soldiers).
Later, their actions signalled that something unusual was going to happen. I don't know how many of them were there, but it was a huge group and one leader was giving them directions. They broke into two parties. One group went down the road towards Shaukeen Mohalla Gurdwara.

"What's happened, sir? Is everything alright?" we asked the gunmen.

"Yes, everything is alright. We have to check your identity cards. It will take 10 minutes. Stay here," they replied.
Some of them barged into houses located close to the two gurdwaras and brought more men out. Among them were my son Gurmeet Singh, who had recently passed Class 10 exam, my 28-year-old brother Darbari Singh and three cousins — 22-year-old Sartaj Singh, 20-year-old Kulbeer Singh and 25-year-old Ujjal Singh. Sartaj had been married for 10 months while Darbari was a farmer with two kids. Both his children aged less than 10 years.

"Where are the militants? We have information that some militants are visiting this village," they said.

"We haven’t seen any militants, Sir. You may have the wrong information," we replied.

Sinister thoughts crossed my mind. I murmured into the ear of my neighbour Charan Singh, standing by my right, that we were going to die today. We could sense a murderous frenzy in the actions of the gunmen.
They lined us up outside Singh Sabha Sumandri Hall Gurdwara. There were 19 of us. My son was beside me. I still remember I was seventh from the left side.
At the same time, the other group of gunmen placed 17 Sikhs in a row outside Shaukeen Mohalla Gurdwara, 150 metres down the road. It was 7.45 pm. There were eight to 10 gunmen in front of us. We were still unsure about their plan.
One of them fired in the air — a signal to the other group to get ready to kill. Then they shot indiscriminately at us. The firing continued for a few minutes. All of us fell to the ground.

I didn’t receive any bullet, but I dropped to the ground and played dead, I was murmuring, "Waheguru Ji, Waheguru Ji", under my breath. They stopped firing and flashed torches at us. "Akh round aur maro saalu ko. Koi nahi bachna chahiye (Shoot these idiots again. Make sure everyone is dead),” one of them ordered. I became ready to die this time.
They fired at us again, and one bullet pierced my left leg and broke my right thigh joint. I didn’t scream. As they left, vanishing through the route they had come, they chanted 'Jai Hind!', 'Jai Mata Di!' and 'Bharat Mata Ki Jai!'

I was bleeding profusely. I opened my eyes and found someone had clutched me with his arm. I lifted his arm and looked closely, it was my son Gurmeet. I shook his body, I called him, tried to wake him up. Then I touched his head; it was soaked in blood. Tears rolled down my face. I was not able to stand up. I wanted a sip of water.
A pile of bodies was lying before me in a pool of blood, some were still shaking and wobbling. Each man was hit by 10 to 12 bullets. That dreadful scene is imprinted on my mind.
My cousin Sartaj was robust. With his bullet-riddled chest, he walked up to our house. Then the villagers came, beating their chests. They picked me up. The gunmen had turned our village into a slaughterhouse. The road ran red, and blood squished under shoes.

Sartaj and I were placed in a room. There was no vehicle in the village. Men, women, children, everyone was crying and screaming for help. Some young Sikh villagers ran to the police station, around seven kilometres away from our village. I too was crying. Shrieking. I had witnessed the brutal death of my loving son.

"Why are you crying? Stop screaming," Sartaj was telling me in a broken voice.

By the time police reached our village, Sartaj had taken his last breath. He might have survived if he had been given immediate treatment. The police took me to Anantnag district hospital, from where I was shifted to Bone and Joint Hospital, Barzulla, Srinagar. The next day, I was referred to the army hospital, where I stayed for 25 days and was operated on once.

I was still unable to walk. I went to Amritsar, where the Sikh committee took me to a senior doctor. I was operated twice. My damaged hip joint was replaced by an artificial one.

It took me months to recover. I didn’t even take part in my son's last rites. I stayed with my relatives in Jammu for some time, to get over the shock. Nothing is worse than to witness the gruesome murder of your loved ones.

While the gunmen were conversing, I had heard three names — Pawan, Bhansi and Bahadur. I don’t know if these names were fake or real, but they still reverberate in my ears.
As the lone survivor of the massacre, I gave scores of interviews. I was an eyewitness in a number of courts and government offices. Nothing happened. Then we lost hope of justice. It was a premeditated massacre. We only saw a flawed inquiry and later, fake promises.

The massacre was carried out to give a wrong message about Kashmir to former US President Bill Clinton, who was visiting India.

Everyone is aware of the Pathribal fake encounter, in which five innocent civilians were killed, and later dubbed militants responsible for the Chittisinghpora massacre. Even the CBI report suggested that the five civilians were killed in cold blood in Pathribal.

After the massacre, people suggested I migrate from Kashmir. But I refused. Why would I leave my village? I was born here. I lived here and will die here. We didn’t make an issue of the massacre. Everyone in Kashmir had been witnessing death and destruction for decades now.

We still live happily with our Muslim brothers. The criminals failed to break our bonds.

I can only say that it was a miracle that I survived, for hundreds of bullets were fired at us at point-blank range.

Three-day mourning for Chittisinghpora massacre victims

Nanak now lives with his other son, Manmeet Singh, also a government employee.

Every year, on the anniversary, Sikh villagers of Chittisinghpora commemorate their loved ones. They observe three days of mourning and memorial events. They have preserved the haunting memories of the massacre, but have lost hope of justice. Nineteen years have passed, and the killings are still shrouded in mystery.

After the Chittisinghpora massacre under SRO-43, every victim's family was given Rs 1 lakh and a government job.

https://www.firstpost.com/india/nam...ounts-night-that-killed-35-sikhs-6299441.html
 
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