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Maybe Pakistan weren't as bad as many thought in Australia?

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MenInG

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So the wrist-slitter brigade was upon us when we came back from Australia after 2-0 loss in Tests but consider this :

New Zealand in 3 Tests in Australia:

Lost by 279 runs
Lost by 247 runs
Lost by 296 runs


So given we are number 7 in Tests and New Zealand are better than us - maybe we weren't as bad as many thought in Australia?

Maybe, and just maybe we met a far superior team who are absolute tigers in their backyard.

Maybe - we are not that bad and given time can get better?
 
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Pakistan were bad, it's just kiwis surprisingly after coming from a series win over England were so inept, saying that Australia do look very strong under langers influence
 
pakistan has lost like 20 tests in a row in australia, no major team is as bad as pakistan is in australia.
 
Pakistan without any doubts were absolutely very bad on the recent Australia tour apart from maybe the first session of the first test where they batted good without losing a wicket and were not able to compete with Australia and were always on very large scale behind Australia in both the test matches which is evident that Australia only needed to bat once to win both the test matches.One could make a point that NewZeland and Pakistan are historically really absolutely pathetic when it comes to playing test matches in Australia .NewZeland has only won one test match in last 26 years that was in 2011/12 and Pakistan last won in Australia was when I do not know maybe it was in 1980s maybe. I think Australia are good but how much good or great can only be known when top team which for now looks like India play with them in Australia
 
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Yasir's shahs 100 and Rizwan's batting is masking the loss. Both teams looked helpless. But Pakistan looked like club bowling attack against Australia. NZ bowling was not all that horrible. If you ask me Todd aslte bowled much better than Yasir Shah. Also Pakistan batting was nothing to write home about. Australia took it easy in various phases like operating two part timers from both ends. Guys set your standard high. I can never think of gloating "we sucked less". If you were actually in wnning position and missing then you can say you did better. Neither teams were in winning position at any point of their respective series.
 
Pak was bad but Australia is just in too good a form at home which is just proven if there were any doubts before (Pak team couldnt have gotten a more difficult situation than playing Aus at home in current form). Though considering how much more experience NZ had in their bowling vs Pak which had players debuting and playing their 3rd 4th matches, they should have created some impact. Most wickets NZ got were when it didnt really matter.

Surprisingly Pak batting showed much more fight than NZ with much less experience.
 
no c'mon guys. pakistan were terrible. dint bowl them out even once did they?

Aussies took it easy as well once they established a solid score. both teams were embarrassing.

it should matter because I am certain pakistan can deliver a beautiful phainta in pakistan to this same Australian side.

bouncy pitches is just a bad matchup for pakistan.

make no mistake pakistan will vanquish England away or atleast scrape a draw.

I see pakistan finishing 3rd or 4th only because Australians are so strong at home.

on a serious note, pakistan HAVE TO improve their bowling in bouncy pitches.
 
NZ performing poorly doesn't hide the fact that Pakistan were equally very bad as well. Yes, I understand NZ were ranked No.2 test team and their current team seems to be their best team in quite a time with Latham, Williamson, Taylor and Watling all in good form and they had defeated Pak in UAE not long back.

But, it seems the current NZ team is good on slower dry wickets and this is where Latham and Watling scores their runs a lot and are in comfort zone. Kane Williamson was a massive fall in this series, Taylor started well but couldn't capitalize, Latham and Watling looked hopeless literally with bat. NZ's better bet will be at home, England and in Asia and they need their best bat to fire which is their captain.
 
Ab Fan said:
NZ performing poorly doesn't hide the fact that Pakistan were equally very bad as well. Yes, I understand NZ were ranked No.2 test team and their current team seems to be their best team in quite a time with Latham, Williamson, Taylor and Watling all in good form and they had defeated Pak in UAE not long back.

But, it seems the current NZ team is good on slower dry wickets and this is where Latham and Watling scores their runs a lot and are in comfort zone. Kane Williamson was a massive fall in this series, Taylor started well but couldn't capitalize, Latham and Watling looked hopeless literally with bat. NZ's better bet will be at home, England and in Asia and they need their best bat to fire which is their captain.
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in Asia? when when they ever perform vs india in India? india will kill them like last time 3-0
 
tyron_woodley said:
in Asia? when when they ever perform vs india in India? india will kill them like last time 3-0
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Yes, they did won a test series in UAE against Pakistan and drew one in Sri Lanka. They are good in Asia but it's unlikely that they will do well in India because India are simply too strong at home and the current India is simply unbeatable at home.
 
We were worse than New Zealand. At least Wagner gave the NZ attack some credibility.
 
Ab Fan said:
Yes, they did won a test series in UAE against Pakistan and drew one in Sri Lanka. They are good in Asia but it's unlikely that they will do well in India because India are simply too strong at home and the current India is simply unbeatable at home.
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yea that was because pakistan was in transition. They won't beat current pakistan in pakistan especially with naseem, abbas and shaheen all bowling well in tandem.

Sri Lanka yea probably.
 
New Zealanders have similar set up like Australia yet they were white washed by them. One should not forget they had world class players in the team ( Kane Williamson, Taylor, Latham and Watling in batting and Boult, Southi, Wagner are top level bowling attack ). Pakistan played well If you compare with New Zealand except Pakistan bowling was week.
 
Whilst both teams were bad, more was expected from New Zealand as they had a good bowling attack alongside an experienced batting lineup.

Many believed this series would be more competitive.
 
We do bad every single time. Even with our best teams of past we got thrashed. Australia is a fortress, especially for Asian countries conditions are too different. The only team which consistently puts in good performances there is South Africa.

I really don't care how we do in Australia in terms of whether it's 4-0 or 3-1. A loss is a loss. I don't think we should be concerned winning in Australia, focus on winning in asia first. When we're no.1 ranked, then we can worry about doing well in Australia. You can quite easily dominate in home and asia and get no.1 despite doing bad in Aus. The reverse, and you'll still be sitting near the bottom of the table.

I don't know why we go into mass meltdown every time it happens. What do people expect?

Which is why I don't herald stats in Australia. Yes it's a great achievement and hard to perform. But stats in UAE/Asia are the most important, that's where we play 70% of the time, and where good performances actually turn into wins. It really doesn't matter if it's easier, it's more important.

Salman Butt was an example who only did well in Australia, and rubbish everywhere else. Made him a useless player, hardly contributed to wins/draws as a result. Didn't matter if he scored a hundred in Aus when we were losing anyway, and only play in Australia maybe twice/three times in a whole decade.
 
ads101 said:
We do bad every single time. Even with our best teams of past we got thrashed. Australia is a fortress, especially for Asian countries conditions are too different. The only team which consistently puts in good performances there is South Africa.

I really don't care how we do in Australia in terms of whether it's 4-0 or 3-1. A loss is a loss. I don't think we should be concerned winning in Australia, focus on winning in asia first. When we're no.1 ranked, then we can worry about doing well in Australia. You can quite easily dominate in home and asia and get no.1 despite doing bad in Aus. The reverse, and you'll still be sitting near the bottom of the table.

I don't know why we go into mass meltdown every time it happens. What do people expect?

Which is why I don't herald stats in Australia. Yes it's a great achievement and hard to perform. But stats in UAE/Asia are the most important, that's where we play 70% of the time, and where good performances actually turn into wins. It really doesn't matter if it's easier, it's more important.

Salman Butt was an example who only did well in Australia, and rubbish everywhere else. Made him a useless player, hardly contributed to wins/draws as a result. Didn't matter if he scored a hundred in Aus when we were losing anyway, and only play in Australia maybe twice/three times in a whole decade.
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need to WIN at home too though. not lose to toothless n.z and draw games.
 
ads101 said:
We do bad every single time. Even with our best teams of past we got thrashed. Australia is a fortress, especially for Asian countries conditions are too different. The only team which consistently puts in good performances there is South Africa.

I really don't care how we do in Australia in terms of whether it's 4-0 or 3-1. A loss is a loss. I don't think we should be concerned winning in Australia, focus on winning in asia first. When we're no.1 ranked, then we can worry about doing well in Australia. You can quite easily dominate in home and asia and get no.1 despite doing bad in Aus. The reverse, and you'll still be sitting near the bottom of the table.

I don't know why we go into mass meltdown every time it happens. What do people expect?

Which is why I don't herald stats in Australia. Yes it's a great achievement and hard to perform. But stats in UAE/Asia are the most important, that's where we play 70% of the time, and where good performances actually turn into wins. It really doesn't matter if it's easier, it's more important.

Salman Butt was an example who only did well in Australia, and rubbish everywhere else. Made him a useless player, hardly contributed to wins/draws as a result. Didn't matter if he scored a hundred in Aus when we were losing anyway, and only play in Australia maybe twice/three times in a whole decade.
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I think we should stop playing Australia if we are going with this mentality.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Yasir's shahs 100 and Rizwan's batting is masking the loss. Both teams looked helpless. But Pakistan looked like club bowling attack against Australia. NZ bowling was not all that horrible. If you ask me Todd aslte bowled much better than Yasir Shah. Also Pakistan batting was nothing to write home about. Australia took it easy in various phases like operating two part timers from both ends. Guys set your standard high. I can never think of gloating "we sucked less". If you were actually in wnning position and missing then you can say you did better. Neither teams were in winning position at any point of their respective series.
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Agree 100%
 
New Zealand didn't get a single practice match and had several key players injured at times during the tour.

We were there 2-3 weeks early and got 2 practice games.

We were much worse.
 
aloo paratha said:
New Zealand didn't get a single practice match and had several key players injured at times during the tour.

We were there 2-3 weeks early and got 2 practice games.

We were much worse.
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Not to mention Australia had to bat once in both games to beat us.
 
Shazzam said:
I think we should stop playing Australia if we are going with this mentality.
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Well Australia has already cut down on the number of tests we play as a result.

We should always try and win. It's a nice surprise if we win. But anything but a whitewash by Australia is extremely unlikely even if we play better than normal sadly. Just not good enough a side.

In Asia on the other hand we're always favourites as we don't play India. We should not be happy with anything but a win. Even draws unacceptable. Regardless of whether it's Australia or SA etc. we should be winning, no excuse.

When we become a strong team winning in Asia, then I'll care. We're nowhere near that, we 7th in the table. We have to play the customary in Australia series even if we lose. Not fair if we chose not to tour places we will lose, not fair on the rest in terms of points table. And it doesn't hurt trying, who knows what might happen.
 
Shazzam said:
Not to mention Australia had to bat once in both games to beat us.
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Not really lol.

Think they would have won by an innings without having to bat again, the margins of defeat were all close to 300 runs.
 
589-3 declared tells Pakistan everything they need to know.
 
The team selection was bad giving debut to 2 fast bowlers of all the places Australia with the others inexperienced as well batsmen apart from Babar looking hapless the inability to drop Yasir who’s a liability in such conditions and to top it off your best bowler wasn’t in top form and doesn’t excel in these conditions.
 
I am wondering what is the Indian team thinking after watching the demolition job that the Australian team carried out.

YOU NEXT!
 
Pakistan hasn't won a single test in Australia in 25 years! The kiwis at least have won a test or two in the past decade. The last time Pakistan won a test in Aus I wasn't even born! Heck I'd say half of the forum members here weren't born!
 
I like this thread. We are basically asking ourselves whether we were horrible in Australia or atrocious in Australia.
 
Pakistan were , surprisingly , the better batting side between the two. However, the bowling was probably the worst I've seen on Australia and ponting thought so too. Just look at the difference in averages in both series between Australia and their respective opponents.

Australia Vs Pakistan - 62
Australia Vs New Zealand - 23.6

NZ were terrible but this Pakistan side was probably the worst to ever tour Australia in cricketing history(excluding minnows)
 
Pakistan is a dreadful team that played dreadful cricket.

New Zealand is a good team that played dreadful cricket.

New Zealand was definitely more disappointing because Pakistan performed according to expectations.
 
To find solace in the fact that the other team fared worse is such a classic Pakistani societal trait. Hahahahahaha.
 
What horrible logic!

Pakistan lost both matches by an innings+

To look for consolation based on another teams performance is crazy. The reality is Pakistan didn't even compete with Australia, didn't even come close. The were terrible, fans should want the team to improve, not make ourselves feel better with 'maybe Pakistan weren't so bad'
 
Our batting did better than expectations, the bowling let us down massively
 
Only Babar was good. Rest were inconsistent.

Then again, probably no team can defeat Australia in Australia other than India and England (LOI only).
 
We were awful in Australia. We didn't compete just like New Zealand. Margin of defeat is irrelevant because neither team competed.
 
Pakistan overall played better than a side that should be accustomed to conditions by now and with so much experience. Pakistan arrived with an unexperienced and undercooked side while NZ arrived with one of their best ever squads. Admittedly illness and injury kept some out of the final test but it was all over by then.

Having said that, Pakistan are a far larger nation with a far prouder history and they need to start performing better in Australia.

Having said that, where are the likes of Chappell and Ponting now?
 
barah_admi said:
Pakistan overall played better than a side that should be accustomed to conditions by now and with so much experience. Pakistan arrived with an unexperienced and undercooked side while NZ arrived with one of their best ever squads. Admittedly illness and injury kept some out of the final test but it was all over by then.

Having said that, Pakistan are a far larger nation with a far prouder history and they need to start performing better in Australia.

Having said that, where are the likes of Chappell and Ponting now?
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What do you mean where are Chappell and Ponting? Does New Zealand have a 100% losing record in Australia since 1995?
 
Mamoon said:
What do you mean where are Chappell and Ponting? Does New Zealand have a 100% losing record in Australia since 1995?
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Definitely one of the worst bowling ever to visit Australia. But not THE worst. 3rd worst.

Worst series bowling performance by teams touring Australia (entire history).

Top 10 worst ever bowling performances by Touring team to Australia. Usual suspects SL, BD, Current WI, Pakistan, NZ.


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Bowling is a requirement to do well in Australia. But batting is even more important than in any other SENA country. YOu could still lose. But as you can see teams that batted well competed well there even with okay bowling attacks

Top 15 best overseas batting performances in Australia against Australia in the history

fSCgI2a.jpg
 
^ above stats not in the history since 1999 Jan 1. That is when OZ pitches slowly started becoming batting surfaces.
 
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