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Melania wears 'hijab' to meet Pope

s28

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Isn't the hypocrisy amazing ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">President Trump Meets Pope Francis at Vatican <a href="https://t.co/RYjMEIyjRQ">https://t.co/RYjMEIyjRQ</a> <a href="https://t.co/sZAmAFxzUO">pic.twitter.com/sZAmAFxzUO</a></p>— The Voice of America (@VOANews) <a href="https://twitter.com/VOANews/status/867297599513964544">24 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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TELEMMGLPICT000129795026-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq2GBvoi56f_mjvGr7nbM6SlstQxipA0zo9OfNnzPwo1k.jpeg
 
trust OP to come up with this

in no way is this hijab. OP should learn what it is

if you wore that in taliban controlled afghanistan you would be pelted with stones as its not covering the head
 
Is it just me or the Pope looks extra grumpy in that photograph.Like he was forced to meet the orange guy.
 
Is it just me or the Pope looks extra grumpy in that photograph.Like he was forced to meet the orange guy.
Looks as if he's being forced at gunpoint to stand there for the photo. Notice how he appears to be trying to edge away from the big T ?
 
Michelle Obama wore a Hijab whenever the Obama's visited muslim nations

image.jpg
 
It amuses me to see how Westerners respect the culture of different countries that they visit. It is evident from Melania Trump covering her head and also the above photo posted by [MENTION=142991]TahirFan[/MENTION] where Michelle Obama covered her head visiting Muslim nations. And these are one of the few examples, I remember Lady Diana chose to dress herself in a Pakistani attire on her tour to Pakistan whereas Jolie also chose to cover herself completely when she visited Pakistan. This shows how the West is ready to respect our modesty, our culture and our traditions whereas Muslims do the entire opposite once the settle in the West or even visit them.

Blocking an entire area, forming ghettos, protesting over Westerners doing whatever they want int their OWN country where they have lived for thousands of years and what not. And these are only a few examples. Love to see our hypocrisy.
 
Melania looks as if she's a hostage being paraded on tv by the hostage taker.

Whilst Ivanka looks embarrased in being there. Remember that she's renounced Christianity by converting to Judaism. And here she is having to pose with the world leader of the Christian Catholic church.

Perhaps that's also why the Pope looks uncomfortable posing with that lot, bearing in mind that the First Daughter has publicly renounced Christianity, his religion.
 
Blocking an entire area, forming ghettos, protesting over Westerners doing whatever they want int their OWN country where they have lived for thousands of years and what not. And these are only a few examples. Love to see our hypocrisy.
"Blocking an entire area"? Where?
You get all your information from the speeches of that Governor of Indian heritage?
 
"Blocking an entire area"? Where?
You get all your information from the speeches of that Governor of Indian heritage?

I've seen it happen many times. East London neighborhoods are an example. And this is particularly targeted towards Muslims, Asians in general. I just said Muslims because it is us who usually have too many problems coexisting instead of people of other faiths.
 
Queen Elizabeth wears a hijab to the Windsor Horse Show - doesn't look too happy about it either.

article-2321472-19AEF94F000005DC-126_308x448.jpg



Yet in front of King Abdullah she doesn't even cover her head! When will the hypocrisy of these colonialists end?

britains-queen-elizabeth-with-saudi-arabias-king-abdullah.jpg
 
Queen Elizabeth wears a hijab to the Windsor Horse Show - doesn't look too happy about it either.

article-2321472-19AEF94F000005DC-126_308x448.jpg



Yet in front of King Abdullah she doesn't even cover her head! When will the hypocrisy of these colonialists end?

britains-queen-elizabeth-with-saudi-arabias-king-abdullah.jpg


I hate the empire for all the colonial BS, but you gotta give it to DA QUEEN !

Have you heard about her story where she drove the Range Rover in which the Saudi King was meant to be taken for a tour around the palace.. The guy was genuinely terrified for being driven around by a woman. !

When Queen Elizabeth took King Abdullah for a drive in her Land Rover
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/driving-king-anecdote-goes-viral/
 
I hate the empire for all the colonial BS, but you gotta give it to DA QUEEN !

Have you heard about her story where she drove the Range Rover in which the Saudi King was meant to be taken for a tour around the palace.. The guy was genuinely terrified for being driven around by a woman. !

When Queen Elizabeth took King Abdullah for a drive in her Land Rover
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/driving-king-anecdote-goes-viral/
Wait till you hear the exploits of her husband.A true badass if there ever was one.
 
I've seen it happen many times. East London neighborhoods are an example. And this is particularly targeted towards Muslims, Asians in general. I just said Muslims because it is us who usually have too many problems coexisting instead of people of other faiths.
Seen what? Blocked by whom? What the heck are you on about?

Do you mean when the police block streets to control BNP marches? or Police blocking access to various government building when demonstrations take place in the city? Such as the anti-Iraq war demonstrations?

If not give examples, along with links to sources. Else stop posting garbage that you've made up on the fly.
 
Seen what? Blocked by whom? What the heck are you on about?

Do you mean when the police block streets to control BNP marches? or Police blocking access to various government building when demonstrations take place in the city? Such as the anti-Iraq war demonstrations?

If not give examples, along with links to sources. Else stop posting garbage that you've made up on the fly.

You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop playing dumb because its not going to get you anywhere. I'm talking about your Sharia Patrols who block roads and protest. I'm talking about your group of Muslim vigilantes who enforce their own laws on their particular section of the society. I'm not sure about your particular whereabouts but I'm sure you would've heard of the Shariah Project or the "Al-Muhajiroun" who roamed the streets of London who targeted homosexuals, couples holding hands and anyone not following the "right" way.

And it doesn't end here, what about the Muslim neighborhoods where white Christians were banned. You want links? Here you go: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ropes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/

Or how about that place where our lovely Muslim brothers declared a Shariah law zone? Here's your proof: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

And this isn't all. I have a lot of other "links to sources" but I'm not going to waste my time trying to show you the reality you already know of but refuse to accept.
 
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop playing dumb because its not going to get you anywhere. I'm talking about your Sharia Patrols who block roads and protest. I'm talking about your group of Muslim vigilantes who enforce their own laws on their particular section of the society. I'm not sure about your particular whereabouts but I'm sure you would've heard of the Shariah Project or the "Al-Muhajiroun" who roamed the streets of London who targeted homosexuals, couples holding hands and anyone not following the "right" way.

And it doesn't end here, what about the Muslim neighborhoods where white Christians were banned. You want links? Here you go: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ropes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/

Or how about that place where our lovely Muslim brothers declared a Shariah law zone? Here's your proof: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

And this isn't all. I have a lot of other "links to sources" but I'm not going to waste my time trying to show you the reality you already know of but refuse to accept.

Braitbart is your source? Tells a lot about your behavior. Added to ignore list from now on.
 
Can mods please fix the title

This is not hijab
 
though regardless

what is the hypocrisy here

does OP think King abdullah of saudi is to sunni Muslims what Pope is to christian catholics?
 
I don't know why but I have always had a genuine admiration for the British Monarchs esp the Queen.The way she carries herself oozes something special about her.Wish we had someone like her who could represent us at the international level but instead we have uneducated ganwars from the north and always bickering about something with names I never have been able to pronounce without getting my tongue twisted from the south.
 
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop playing dumb because its not going to get you anywhere. I'm talking about your Sharia Patrols who block roads and protest. I'm talking about your group of Muslim vigilantes who enforce their own laws on their particular section of the society. I'm not sure about your particular whereabouts but I'm sure you would've heard of the Shariah Project or the "Al-Muhajiroun" who roamed the streets of London who targeted homosexuals, couples holding hands and anyone not following the "right" way.

And it doesn't end here, what about the Muslim neighborhoods where white Christians were banned. You want links? Here you go: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ropes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/

Or how about that place where our lovely Muslim brothers declared a Shariah law zone? Here's your proof: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

And this isn't all. I have a lot of other "links to sources" but I'm not going to waste my time trying to show you the reality you already know of but refuse to accept.


You do realise that not every place is like that, and most people with that outlook are a minority anyway. Most people just get on with their lives. I haven't encountered anyone with this kind of mindset although I'm outside of the London area.
 
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop playing dumb because its not going to get you anywhere. I'm talking about your Sharia Patrols who block roads and protest. I'm talking about your group of Muslim vigilantes who enforce their own laws on their particular section of the society. I'm not sure about your particular whereabouts but I'm sure you would've heard of the Shariah Project or the "Al-Muhajiroun" who roamed the streets of London who targeted homosexuals, couples holding hands and anyone not following the "right" way.

And it doesn't end here, what about the Muslim neighborhoods where white Christians were banned. You want links? Here you go: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ropes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/

Or how about that place where our lovely Muslim brothers declared a Shariah law zone? Here's your proof: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

And this isn't all. I have a lot of other "links to sources" but I'm not going to waste my time trying to show you the reality you already know of but refuse to accept.
You're using breitbart :haha(and the daily fail) as your source?

:))) :))) :)))

Explains a heck of lot about your "knowledge". :))
 
You do realise that not every place is like that, and most people with that outlook are a minority anyway. Most people just get on with their lives. I haven't encountered anyone with this kind of mindset although I'm outside of the London area.

This nonsense was debunked long ago. Fox news did something similar few years ago and they apologized for their lies about non existent no go zones.
 
You're using breitbart :haha(and the daily fail) as your source?

:))) :))) :)))

Explains a heck of lot about your "knowledge". :))

He probably searched on google and posted the frst source he came across. It's like me posting Al Arabiya.
 
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He probably searched on google and post the frst source he came across. It's like me posting Al Arabiya.
Nah .. he was probably attending Trump rallies when Trump was a candidate, and having chats with Brennan for his info.
 
I don't know why but I have always had a genuine admiration for the British Monarchs esp the Queen.The way she carries herself oozes something special about her.Wish we had someone like her who could represent us at the international level but instead we have uneducated ganwars from the north and always bickering about something with names I never have been able to pronounce without getting my tongue twisted from the south.

We did have our Indiraji ..

Still our most powerful & influential PM, no-on before or since commanded power like she did.

See, this longing that you have for a "Queen figure" is exactly what Modiji is using to build the personality cult around him .
 
We did have our Indiraji ..

Still our most powerful & influential PM, no-on before or since commanded power like she did.

See, this longing that you have for a "Queen figure" is exactly what Modiji is using to build the personality cult around him .

Yeah yeah I know but I was actually talking about the constitutional monarchy which is prevalent in the Britain and not the Queen with all powers vested in her.Like replace president with a king or queen, what use is of president in India have anyway.
Re Indira I will never forgive her for subversion and undermining the constitution and declaring emergency which is a blot on our otherwise successful democratic history.
 
Still being termed as a hijab?

Tell that to the many subjugated women forced to wear hijab due to patriarchal society and theyll give you an angry stare through the veil. Theyd love to wear sth like this
 
I laughed out loud when I saw the pic in the OP, seemed like she had a rumaal on top of her head :)))
 
How is it hypocrisy when Melania didn't even step foot inside a mosque or any place of religious significance? Unless you consider the Saudi Royal Palace as a place of worship or religious importance..also women are NOT required to cover their head in Saudi. Melania covered her head when visiting the Vatican and meeting with the Pope...not when she was in Italy. Muslims need to learn more about this world.
 
Still being termed as a hijab?

Tell that to the many subjugated women forced to wear hijab due to patriarchal society and theyll give you an angry stare through the veil. Theyd love to wear sth like this

I think you are a little confused. Hijab dosent have a veil, a Niqab does .
 
The hypocrisy is evident. I don't understand how places where nuns still operate can have an issue with the hijaab and burka.

Still being termed as a hijab?

Tell that to the many subjugated women forced to wear hijab due to patriarchal society and theyll give you an angry stare through the veil. Theyd love to wear sth like this

How many of these "subjugated women" have come crying to you about their oppressed existence? Don't make up stuff and certainly don't believe what Fox News tells you. The vast majority of women choose to wear the hijaab and/or niqaab (there is a difference) voluntarily, especially in places like Canada, the US, etc.
 
Hypocrisy Part II

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Many people are saying it was wonderful that Mrs. Obama refused to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia, but they were insulted.We have enuf enemies</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/560839957426999297">29 January 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
You're using breitbart :haha(and the daily fail) as your source?

:))) :))) :)))

Explains a heck of lot about your "knowledge". :))

Will a Guardian link work?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...jihadi-islamic-state-flown-poplar-east-london

A close friend of mine was asked to cover up in the same area around October 2014. She was scared and understandably has never entered the area again. Last month it happened again with another white woman who again only posted in the local community forum.

This area is less than 10 mins from Canary Wharf, the financial centre of London and probably amongst the richest areas in the country. It however falls within the Tower Hamlets borough probably the poorest. The area is divided into have and have nots. It has a persistent problem with local Bangladeshi kids selling drugs or racing cars, while living in council houses.
 
Will a Guardian link work?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...jihadi-islamic-state-flown-poplar-east-london

A close friend of mine was asked to cover up in the same area around October 2014. She was scared and understandably has never entered the area again. Last month it happened again with another white woman who again only posted in the local community forum.

This area is less than 10 mins from Canary Wharf, the financial centre of London and probably amongst the richest areas in the country. It however falls within the Tower Hamlets borough probably the poorest. The area is divided into have and have nots. It has a persistent problem with local Bangladeshi kids selling drugs or racing cars, while living in council houses.
So a bunch of idiots flying a flag 3 years ago is your proof? Is that all you could uncover from hours of googling? Not exactly "roads blocked off in no-go areas of London where Sharia law rules"! Incidentally, it's not as if the journalist is likely to be totally impartial, considering his Indian background. A list of his articles in various news media over the years (hint: pro Indian, anti-Pakistan, anti-Muslim) might give you a clue.
 
So a bunch of idiots flying a flag 3 years ago is your proof? Is that all you could uncover from hours of googling? Not exactly "roads blocked off in no-go areas of London where Sharia law rules"! Incidentally, it's not as if the journalist is likely to be totally impartial, considering his Indian background. A list of his articles in various news media over the years (hint: pro Indian, anti-Pakistan, anti-Muslim) might give you a clue.
Hours of googling? Boy I don't have the luxury of free time as you do. Also I believe the PP server was down today. I know about these as I live and work in Canary Wharf and one of the incidents occurred with a close friend of mine.

You wanted proof besides the Sharia patrol claims, I gave you some. You habitually looked away and attacked the source when presented with information contrary to your beliefs. There is a drug and ghettoisation problem with sections of the Asian community. It takes a religious colour at locations. You can accept these as facts or continue turning a blind eye.

Also if you don't like discrimination probably stop doing it yourself. If the journalist is biased as he is Indian, why are you impartial being a Pakistani Muslim?
 
Looks like the women are attending a funeral. Someone must have jokingly told them, this is how you meet the Pope. Lol

It is very normal for women visiting the pope to wear black with a veil.

This traditional rule holds that most women wear long black dresses with sleeves and mantillas.
 
I remember reading a book on Salah ud Deen and the crusades in general, and the medieval Islamic chroniclers were surprised at the "liberties" of Frankish women - keep in mind that back then France, Germany, etc were not "civilized", had no urbanization, middle class, etc all modern factors which could explain the "phenomenon", yet females were "liberated" (it's noted how lousy they were, commanding, etc) ; the truth is that there's a massive problem with the basic anthropological structure - the family (as studied by French sociologist-demographer Emmanuel Todd) - of that part of the world, next to whom everything else, from southern Europeans to China and through Indians or Middle Easterners, are different.

It's like if it was the system of the Antichrist. So basically these women will never accept modesty, unless on an individual basis. It's literally ontologically impossible to them. They're more Lilith than Eve and even more so Virgin Mary. It's not a "trick" against Islam. Melania is not an outlier but the pattern.
 
How many of these "subjugated women" have come crying to you about their oppressed existence? Don't make up stuff and certainly don't believe what Fox News tells you. The vast majority of women choose to wear the hijaab and/or niqaab (there is a difference) voluntarily, especially in places like Canada, the US, etc.

How many subjugated women generally go to strange men to complain about their situation? Does that meant that they don’t exist or that someone living in a country where something is so massively prevalent as forced veils are in Pakistan wouldn’t know about it? You live in Canada, a country where Muslims are a minority and one that has to temper it’s more unsavory cultural practices on account of the laws and local culture there yet you accuse someone living in Pakistan, where this kind of thing is extremely common – to the point where there are entire regions with populations running into the millions – where forced veils are the rule rather than the exception, of making stuff up?

The vast majority of women may choose to wear the Niqab in the US or Canada because there are legal checks and balances there against this sort of thing and a minority religious group can’t afford to collectively defy them on a large scale, especially one that is already notorious for its poor record on women’s rights. The situation is different in Pakistan where Muslims are a majority and, therefore, free to do as they please while providing legal cover for their actions through legislation. There are entire cities where you can go days without seeing a single women, covered up or otherwise.

There are literally millions of women in Pakistan who have no choice but to wear it, not to mention those who are indoctrinated from infancy to believe that they’d be bringing themselves and their family great dishonor by not wearing it. I know this for a fact because I happen to be from one culture that actually treats this practice as one of the principle tenets of their culture, and live surrounded by another culture where this has become extremely common in the last 20 years.

Before accusing someone of “making stuff up”, at least first make sure that you know what you’re talking about. The poster you accused of lying was absolutely spot on here.
 
How many subjugated women generally go to strange men to complain about their situation? Does that meant that they don’t exist or that someone living in a country where something is so massively prevalent as forced veils are in Pakistan wouldn’t know about it? You live in Canada, a country where Muslims are a minority and one that has to temper it’s more unsavory cultural practices on account of the laws and local culture there yet you accuse someone living in Pakistan, where this kind of thing is extremely common – to the point where there are entire regions with populations running into the millions – where forced veils are the rule rather than the exception, of making stuff up?

The vast majority of women may choose to wear the Niqab in the US or Canada because there are legal checks and balances there against this sort of thing and a minority religious group can’t afford to collectively defy them on a large scale, especially one that is already notorious for its poor record on women’s rights. The situation is different in Pakistan where Muslims are a majority and, therefore, free to do as they please while providing legal cover for their actions through legislation. There are entire cities where you can go days without seeing a single women, covered up or otherwise.

There are literally millions of women in Pakistan who have no choice but to wear it, not to mention those who are indoctrinated from infancy to believe that they’d be bringing themselves and their family great dishonor by not wearing it. I know this for a fact because I happen to be from one culture that actually treats this practice as one of the principle tenets of their culture, and live surrounded by another culture where this has become extremely common in the last 20 years.

Before accusing someone of “making stuff up”, at least first make sure that you know what you’re talking about. The poster you accused of lying was absolutely spot on here.

Yet again, I see nothing but blanket statements and not a hint of evidence to back up any of the claims that have been made. Your bias is clear when you use words like "indoctrinated" to describe women who wear Islamic attire, an oft made, flimsy argument that is very convenient to brush aside the women choosing to follow their religion.

That poster lives in the US, if I'm not mistaken and this thread is also about the West. Pakistan has many problems and the problem is not the hijab but the culture of the people there and their intolerance and lack of wisdom in handling such things. The hijab is worn by women all over the world and if it is being worn voluntarily by women in countries like Canada, something you yourself admit, then once again, the problem is with countries where it is enforced in a brutal and repressive manner.
 
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Stop playing dumb because its not going to get you anywhere. I'm talking about your Sharia Patrols who block roads and protest. I'm talking about your group of Muslim vigilantes who enforce their own laws on their particular section of the society. I'm not sure about your particular whereabouts but I'm sure you would've heard of the Shariah Project or the "Al-Muhajiroun" who roamed the streets of London who targeted homosexuals, couples holding hands and anyone not following the "right" way.

And it doesn't end here, what about the Muslim neighborhoods where white Christians were banned. You want links? Here you go: http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...ropes-muslim-no-go-zones-documented-on-video/

Or how about that place where our lovely Muslim brothers declared a Shariah law zone? Here's your proof: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...uburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

And this isn't all. I have a lot of other "links to sources" but I'm not going to waste my time trying to show you the reality you already know of but refuse to accept.

A sorry sight indeed. Shows the ignorance the media has instilled in people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, too lazy to fact check when it comes to Islam.
 
Define evidence? Social practices are not scientific phenomena for which quantifiable empirical evidence exists, the evidence here is mostly obtained through observation, especially in a place like Pakistan where research on sociological issues is virtually nonexistent. Falling back on the ‘evidence’ straw-man is a convenient way to convince yourself that nothing’s wrong but, unfortunately, that’s not how it works. There’s no “evidence” (of the kind you’re trying to imply exists) that virtually every woman in, say, rural KPK has to wear a blue burqa whether she likes it or not yet it’s no secret that they don’t have a choice in the matter. As far as the usage of the term indoctrinated is concerned, I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of Islamic culture but, unfortunately for the argument you’re trying to make here, we’re dealing with facts – i.e. whether or not something happens or not – and not opinions which is usually where bias comes into play. Besides, your pro Islam bias is at least as strong as my anti-Islam bias and I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of what I called ‘indoctrination’ here but that’s beside the point. The question here is whether or not it’s happening, not whether it’s right or wrong, and in this case, the answer is a resounding yes as most people living in Pakistan would be able to confirm.

The poster you accused of lying lives in Karachi which, last I checked, is not in the US. He also didn’t specify that he was referring exclusively to the west but calling out OP’s hypocrisy in general. Your line of argument, that it’s the culture and not the religion, is pretty common here and one that has been thoroughly debunked by now. Culture and religion don’t exist in isolation and religion has had a massive influence on Pakistani culture. Even now, religion is the go-to tool for the most regressive elements of society to reinforce their most unsavory cultural practices. This is all basic Pakistani Sociology 101, stuff you’d know if you had an inkling about how Pakistan works but, since you brought up the element of bias, your pro Islam bias is evident here, trying to talk about stuff you know nothing of. Hijab is worn voluntarily by Muslim women in the west (for the most part, not exclusively – if we include Europe) because the laws there mostly guarantee them protection against coercion. That is not the case which is why the proportion of women who wear it in the west is a fraction of that in Pakistan. I doubt you can go two days without seeing a single women in even the most regressive Muslim neighborhood in England. In Pakistan, there are entire districts where this is the norm.
 
[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] and everyone else criticizing my choice of source, I'm sorry for not actually looking into the roots of the website, I just gave what I found on my first search because you wanted ''proof''. Frankly, I don't even care about proof given how I confident I am about what I'm saying. [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] you don't need to take this personally, or as an insult to your British Pakistani heritage, I'm simply stating a fact. It's for everyone to see. And I'm not going to quote more examples right now, I'm just waiting to for the Holy month of Ramzan to come about so you can become aware of your beloved Ramadan Patrols and Ramadan ''police''. Stop living in delusion.
 
[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] and everyone else criticizing my choice of source, I'm sorry for not actually looking into the roots of the website, I just gave what I found on my first search because you wanted ''proof''. Frankly, I don't even care about proof given how I confident I am about what I'm saying. [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] you don't need to take this personally, or as an insult to your British Pakistani heritage, I'm simply stating a fact. It's for everyone to see. And I'm not going to quote more examples right now, I'm just waiting to for the Holy month of Ramzan to come about so you can become aware of your beloved Ramadan Patrols and Ramadan ''police''. Stop living in delusion.

:)))

Are you alright mate?
 
[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] and everyone else criticizing my choice of source, I'm sorry for not actually looking into the roots of the website, I just gave what I found on my first search because you wanted ''proof''. Frankly, I don't even care about proof given how I confident I am about what I'm saying. [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] you don't need to take this personally, or as an insult to your British Pakistani heritage, I'm simply stating a fact. It's for everyone to see. And I'm not going to quote more examples right now, I'm just waiting to for the Holy month of Ramzan to come about so you can become aware of your beloved Ramadan Patrols and Ramadan ''police''. Stop living in delusion.
[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] read this :)))
 
:)))

Are you alright mate?

What's so funny about it? Come on, now. What world are you living in? If you're a stranger to the dawah groups and what not that walk around East London then I'm sorry but I have nothing to say..
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] you are seriously deluded Al muhajiroun had like 100 members they were just a loud minority who liked to bark.

There are no areas of the U.K governed by Sharia or these Sharia no go zones. Fox News try to say there were Sharia no go zones in Birmingham and got slapped and had to apologise.

In East London there were a few radicals who put a few leaflets up saying Sharia Zones and tried to intimidate people but it was condemned by all the mainstream local mosques and the issue was resolved very quickly.

We dont have any Hisbah or morality police in Muslim areas.

i live in a majority Muslim area and we have pubs and mosques near each other no one is bothered. most people just focus on their own life not try to enforce religion in public. Not to mention its British Pakistanis who make up the majority of cabbies who transport people to pubs n clubs in a lot of cities in the U.K n a lot of Muslims who own the takeaways that serve people their 3am kebab after a night out. even if they dont agree with alcohol drinking n clubbing they dont bring their religion into refusing customers. They respect that this is local culture.

This is mostly far right scare mongering.
 
Isn't the hypocrisy amazing ?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">President Trump Meets Pope Francis at Vatican <a href="https://t.co/RYjMEIyjRQ">https://t.co/RYjMEIyjRQ</a> <a href="https://t.co/sZAmAFxzUO">pic.twitter.com/sZAmAFxzUO</a></p>— The Voice of America (@VOANews) <a href="https://twitter.com/VOANews/status/867297599513964544">24 May 2017</a></blockquote>
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bhai Melania ki marzi jo chahay pahnay. Melania cannot be forced to wear Hijab in Saudi Arabia. And Melania cannot be forced to not wear Hijab in Rome.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] ive seen the dawah groups on edgeware road too on speakers corner in hyde park. Yes u get some islamist types but they arent enforcing Sharia on anyone.

Nowhere in the U.K does Sharia have any jurisdiction or political enforcement.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] Breitbart the same site Milo Yiannopolous is prominent for. Which is known for spreading anti Muslim anti immigrant hysteria. The same people who act like France is an Islamic State because Le Pen didnt get elected.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] lets not brush under the carpet the oppressive policies of the Iranians the Saudis Yemen Afghanistan under Taliban. Jihadist territory in Iraq and Syria any place where theocratic interpretations of Sharia is in place women suffer and womens rights are severely curtailed.

There are lots of women who choose the hijab and burqa and millions who are forced to wear it too. The right to choose is the one right that should be universal.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] ive seen the dawah groups on edgeware road too on speakers corner in hyde park. Yes u get some islamist types but they arent enforcing Sharia on anyone.

Nowhere in the U.K does Sharia have any jurisdiction or political enforcement.

I'm glad you at least have something to say in both of your posts. Some posters on here get too emotional and start personally attacking the other poster if they don't agree and don't have a viable argument to present. This is just a friendly debate and discussion,honestly don't see the need for some posters to get so petty.

Coming back to your post, of course, I never said that these groups are the majority. They are a few in number but frankly, I personally know people living in England who are inclined towards such extremism. There's obviously a reason why ISIS in Syria has had more recruits from the UK and not Pakistan or some Muslim country like Malaysia.

But yeah, I get your general point. I'm glad things are improving and I hope !ore of it doesn't happen in Ramadan.
 
Hypocrite insults "foreign" posters opinions as they are not born in Pak when it come to law in Pakistan before making up his own with regards to the UK itself :))) what an absolute joke, embarrassing
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] my dad is a taxi driver. he is a religious guy prays 5 times a day and what u would call a conservative Pakistani. Yet he has no issue transporting drunk people or those going out to clubs n pubs. Even he has said he has picked up pakistani girls who are going clubbing or going out with their boyfriends but he hasnt refused to serve them because he disagrees with their lifestyle its none of his business and most people keep that attitude. A few mugs who try to infringe on others rights isnt indicative of majority of Muslims in the U.K.

Most Muslims have real jobs and arent on the streets giving dawah trying to convert people.
 
Hypocrite insults "foreign" posters opinions as they are not born in Pak when it come to law in Pakistan before making up his own with regards to the UK itself :))) what an absolute joke, embarrassing

LOL. First of all, get your facts straight. I never insulted you for talking about the law in Pakistan, I simply asked you to stop criticizing things you didn't know about. Secondly, Im not even talking about the law in the UK, simply making you aware of the ghettos and gangs that run in the not so beautiful parts of town.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] Pakistan has a lot of homegrown jihadist groups to choose from like most Muslim countries now there is a Jihadi insurgency. TTP LET LEJ Sipah e Sahaba. There are thousands of Pakistanis involved in jihadist activity within Pakistan and its neighbouring areas but generalising Pakistanis as terrorists or it as a terror state would be something u disagree with im sure. Not to mention tens of thousands who come out to support murderers like mumtaz qadri.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] i know people wh have extremist views too. am not saying it doesnt exist. there are hardline people here who slavishly follow saudi ideology but most people arent like that.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] my dad is a taxi driver. he is a religious guy prays 5 times a day and what u would call a conservative Pakistani. Yet he has no issue transporting drunk people or those going out to clubs n pubs. Even he has said he has picked up pakistani girls who are going clubbing or going out with their boyfriends but he hasnt refused to serve them because he disagrees with their lifestyle its none of his business and most people keep that attitude. A few mugs who try to infringe on others rights isnt indicative of majority of Muslims in the U.K.

Most Muslims have real jobs and arent on the streets giving dawah trying to convert people.
Your father sounds like a great man and I wish we had more people like him
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] i know people wh have extremist views too. am not saying it doesnt exist. there are hardline people here who slavishly follow saudi ideology but most people arent like that.

Yeah,i get what you mean bro. Perhaps i was wrong in generalizing the British Muslim community.
 
[MENTION=141922]ExpressPacer[/MENTION] my dad is a taxi driver. he is a religious guy prays 5 times a day and what u would call a conservative Pakistani. Yet he has no issue transporting drunk people or those going out to clubs n pubs. Even he has said he has picked up pakistani girls who are going clubbing or going out with their boyfriends but he hasnt refused to serve them because he disagrees with their lifestyle its none of his business and most people keep that attitude. A few mugs who try to infringe on others rights isnt indicative of majority of Muslims in the U.K.

Most Muslims have real jobs and arent on the streets giving dawah trying to convert people.

I mean any normal person would be able to comprehend your very simple/beautiful post but making moronic generalisations is just beyond me, I think it's more to do with anti-religious police v pro-religious police always wanting to point score over each other and it just isn't productive. Anyhow the UK is not like other places where we're intolerant towards how others choose to live, there are nut jobs no doubt but generally its all good
 
[MENTION=136193]Adil_94[/MENTION] It was in the UK where a Jamaican and Pakistani were married among all the stereotypes and racial prejudices , that's why I always laugh in the face of those who want to spew a rhetoric which intends to divide us when it comes to the way we choose to live and tend to categorise us in that way but am sorry but it just doesn't work like that in the empire on which the sun never sets :akhtar
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] most of us accept how different people live their lives. A few idiots trying to put up no alcohol posters doesnt change that. if they try do that in my area il come with my vodka bottles n beer trucks to drown the jobbers.
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] most of us accept how different people live their lives. A few idiots trying to put up no alcohol posters doesnt change that. if they try do that in my area il come with my vodka bottles n beer trucks to drown the jobbers.

So true, if people like to get drunk who am I to judge; I don't drink but Stone Cold is still my hero. The Rattle Snake Adil :)) Stone THIRSTY Cold :))
 
Define evidence? Social practices are not scientific phenomena for which quantifiable empirical evidence exists, the evidence here is mostly obtained through observation, especially in a place like Pakistan where research on sociological issues is virtually nonexistent. Falling back on the ‘evidence’ straw-man is a convenient way to convince yourself that nothing’s wrong but, unfortunately, that’s not how it works. There’s no “evidence” (of the kind you’re trying to imply exists) that virtually every woman in, say, rural KPK has to wear a blue burqa whether she likes it or not yet it’s no secret that they don’t have a choice in the matter. As far as the usage of the term indoctrinated is concerned, I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of Islamic culture but, unfortunately for the argument you’re trying to make here, we’re dealing with facts – i.e. whether or not something happens or not – and not opinions which is usually where bias comes into play. Besides, your pro Islam bias is at least as strong as my anti-Islam bias and I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of what I called ‘indoctrination’ here but that’s beside the point. The question here is whether or not it’s happening, not whether it’s right or wrong, and in this case, the answer is a resounding yes as most people living in Pakistan would be able to confirm.

The poster you accused of lying lives in Karachi which, last I checked, is not in the US. He also didn’t specify that he was referring exclusively to the west but calling out OP’s hypocrisy in general. Your line of argument, that it’s the culture and not the religion, is pretty common here and one that has been thoroughly debunked by now. Culture and religion don’t exist in isolation and religion has had a massive influence on Pakistani culture. Even now, religion is the go-to tool for the most regressive elements of society to reinforce their most unsavory cultural practices. This is all basic Pakistani Sociology 101, stuff you’d know if you had an inkling about how Pakistan works but, since you brought up the element of bias, your pro Islam bias is evident here, trying to talk about stuff you know nothing of. Hijab is worn voluntarily by Muslim women in the west (for the most part, not exclusively – if we include Europe) because the laws there mostly guarantee them protection against coercion. That is not the case which is why the proportion of women who wear it in the west is a fraction of that in Pakistan. I doubt you can go two days without seeing a single women in even the most regressive Muslim neighborhood in England. In Pakistan, there are entire districts where this is the norm.

Except that you did put a quantifiable value to make your claims sound more serious. Yes, it is not a secret that women are forced to wear the hijab/burka/niqab in some places. Millions of women? This is something you need to prove. So either stop making sensationalist claims that you cannot prove or actually do some research and back them up (you can't).

I don't really care if you're not a fan of Islam, I do care about people like you using biased, two-faced arguments about my religion. Opinions, facts, whatever you call them, do go ahead and clarify how exactly Muslim women are "indoctrinated" to wear the hijab. Then explain how that is any different from a parent in Pakistan teaching their child that the hijab is oppressive and an infringement on womens' rights or a Catholic parent in America teaching their child that the Pope is infallible. This "indoctrination" does not work on adults who are fully capable of making their own decisions, which is relevant because most of the people who wear the hijab/burka/niqab are adult women. Yes, women are forced to wear them in places, which is wrong. Just like they are forced to not wear them in places, which is also wrong. As a Muslim, I most definitely am all for free choice and this is also what Islam teaches its followers.

Th religion of Islam predates the state of Pakistan by hundreds of years. It is also practiced all around the world and seeing how not every place where Islam gained a foothold or where it was the official religion turned into a gutter like some places of Pakistan, the fault is with the people of Pakistan and not the religion of Islam. You think most of these elites who are involved in the politics of Pakistan are religious and base their actions off the Qur'an and Sunnah? No. Yet, they are still corrupt to the bone and that is because the culture of Pakistan has become one where corruption is not only tolerated but encouraged. Don't blame someone or something else for the failings of your people, blame yourself and your countrymen.

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] lets not brush under the carpet the oppressive policies of the Iranians the Saudis Yemen Afghanistan under Taliban. Jihadist territory in Iraq and Syria any place where theocratic interpretations of Sharia is in place women suffer and womens rights are severely curtailed.

There are lots of women who choose the hijab and burqa and millions who are forced to wear it too. The right to choose is the one right that should be universal.

Once again, the problem lies with Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, not Islam. The people need to change their culture, develop tolerance and not mask their faults by calling it a part of their religion, because it is not.

If tomorrow North Korea commands its citizens to start wearing jeans whenever they come out of their houses, jeans do not become the problem, North Korea's authoritarian practices do. So the hijab has never been the problem, especially when the Qur'an explicitly warns against compulsion in religion, individual countries and societies are the problem.
 
[MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] and everyone else criticizing my choice of source, I'm sorry for not actually looking into the roots of the website, I just gave what I found on my first search because you wanted ''proof''. Frankly, I don't even care about proof given how I confident I am about what I'm saying. [MENTION=4930]Yossarian[/MENTION] you don't need to take this personally, or as an insult to your British Pakistani heritage, I'm simply stating a fact. It's for everyone to see. And I'm not going to quote more examples right now, I'm just waiting to for the Holy month of Ramzan to come about so you can become aware of your beloved Ramadan Patrols and Ramadan ''police''. Stop living in delusion.
Sorry to disappoint you, but no "Ramadan Patrols" or "Ramadan Police" where I live.
 
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Th religion of Islam predates the state of Pakistan by hundreds of years. It is also practiced all around the world and seeing how not every place where Islam gained a foothold or where it was the official religion turned into a gutter like some places of Pakistan, the fault is with the people of Pakistan and not the religion of Islam.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most countries with majority Muslim population are either a gutter or are autocratic states with negligible human rights.

Turkey was one shining light til la few years ago
 
Personally don't find it wrong if parents force their children to wear veil etc as any rule which are not against rule of land,and untill the child lives under their roof,it's done with chores as well so what's the difference in this case.

Once they leave the home it's their choice but rule of land >personal beliefs ,cannot physically abuse the child in case there is a law against it, somethings seen in Asian households.
 
Define evidence? Social practices are not scientific phenomena for which quantifiable empirical evidence exists, the evidence here is mostly obtained through observation, especially in a place like Pakistan where research on sociological issues is virtually nonexistent. Falling back on the ‘evidence’ straw-man is a convenient way to convince yourself that nothing’s wrong but, unfortunately, that’s not how it works. There’s no “evidence” (of the kind you’re trying to imply exists) that virtually every woman in, say, rural KPK has to wear a blue burqa whether she likes it or not yet it’s no secret that they don’t have a choice in the matter. As far as the usage of the term indoctrinated is concerned, I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of Islamic culture but, unfortunately for the argument you’re trying to make here, we’re dealing with facts – i.e. whether or not something happens or not – and not opinions which is usually where bias comes into play. Besides, your pro Islam bias is at least as strong as my anti-Islam bias and I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a fan of what I called ‘indoctrination’ here but that’s beside the point. The question here is whether or not it’s happening, not whether it’s right or wrong, and in this case, the answer is a resounding yes as most people living in Pakistan would be able to confirm.

The poster you accused of lying lives in Karachi which, last I checked, is not in the US. He also didn’t specify that he was referring exclusively to the west but calling out OP’s hypocrisy in general. Your line of argument, that it’s the culture and not the religion, is pretty common here and one that has been thoroughly debunked by now. Culture and religion don’t exist in isolation and religion has had a massive influence on Pakistani culture. Even now, religion is the go-to tool for the most regressive elements of society to reinforce their most unsavory cultural practices. This is all basic Pakistani Sociology 101, stuff you’d know if you had an inkling about how Pakistan works but, since you brought up the element of bias, your pro Islam bias is evident here, trying to talk about stuff you know nothing of. Hijab is worn voluntarily by Muslim women in the west (for the most part, not exclusively – if we include Europe) because the laws there mostly guarantee them protection against coercion. That is not the case which is why the proportion of women who wear it in the west is a fraction of that in Pakistan. I doubt you can go two days without seeing a single women in even the most regressive Muslim neighborhood in England. In Pakistan, there are entire districts where this is the norm.

[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] lets not brush under the carpet the oppressive policies of the Iranians the Saudis Yemen Afghanistan under Taliban. Jihadist territory in Iraq and Syria any place where theocratic interpretations of Sharia is in place women suffer and womens rights are severely curtailed.

There are lots of women who choose the hijab and burqa and millions who are forced to wear it too. The right to choose is the one right that should be universal.

Sorry to burst your bubble but most countries with majority Muslim population are either a gutter or are autocratic states with negligible human rights.

Turkey was one shining light til la few years ago

Once again, the fault of the people of those countries and not Islam. A majority Muslim population does not mean anything. If anything, democracy seems to be incompatible in Muslim majority countries, for one reason or the other.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] thats a sad indictment on the state of a lot of Muslim countries particularly in the MENA that democracy hasnt been able to take root due to both internal and external factors.
 
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