Message for Naseem Shah and Pakistan team management

[HasanA]

If you are not going to bowl in full tilt and speed, you are a trundler and will be out of the side for good so if you think bowling within yourself will preserve your career, you won’t have a career if you have a bowling average speed of 134 kph. What happened to the bowling average speed of 144 kph in Australia a year ago. You are a useless bowler in comparison to last year if you will just bowl slower as you will not a career at this speed

You have to realize. 5-10 years of full speed and good career of 2 years of trundling and forgotten

 

[Slog]

He was not bowling average speed of 144kph in Australia. His first spell was that much and it got progressively slower.

And regardless he is a club level bowler with skills of a club level one. He isn’t the age he tells so the potential to go up isn’t that high anyway.

He was picked to give a ‘toffee’ to all the pace loving pakiStani fans who cream themselves when they see a teenage fast bowler.

 

[Mamoon]

He was a useless bowler in Australia as well, and his use was reflected in the wickets column.

He has always been a poor bowler and doesn’t have the skill-set to trouble top batsmen. He cannot swing and seam the ball and pace alone doesn’t matter much to these players. He is also not tall enough to trouble them consistently.

He is a nothing bowler hyped due to fake age and his own big mouth.

He is just another Mohammad Talha level bowler. Even if he regains his pace it is not going to make much of a difference. He needs to go back to domestic cricket and work on improving his skill-set.

 

[Savak]

Waqar highlighted and promoted the likes of Naseem Shah, Mohammad Hasnain, Shaheen Afridi, Musa on his Twitter online even before the selectors picked these bowlers. Heck Waqar selected the bowlers for the tour to Australia on the basis of a 2 day bowling camp in Lahore.

Maybe posters need to take Waqar to task for promoting these unproven youngsters over some more experienced options in domestic cricket

 

[Ab Fan]

I was a bit surprised with the hype he got.

 

[HasanA]

I was a bit surprised with the hype he got.

Didn’t he get a hatrick and a 5fer in the only full test which he he played ?

 

[Slog]

I was a bit surprised with the hype he got.

I literally said it here the first time I saw him in the australia series that this guy is definitely not prepared or ready for international cricket. The best case scenario for him was that if he was actually 17 then he has a huge period where he can potentially improve but I knew inside that there is a limited ceiling with him. But I guess one can hope to be proven wrong. However the worst thing is that even in this best case scenario situation he should not be playing for Pakistan right now. You don’t pick players for the senior team on what they might potentially become if they aren’t international level right now. The other guy they picked was Musa lol who even in his best case scenario would be a good domestic bowler.

 

[indian_sap]

He was not bowling average speed of 144kph in Australia. His first spell was that much and it got progressively slower.

And regardless he is a club level bowler with skills of a club level one. He isn’t the age he tells so the potential to go up isn’t that high anyway.

He was picked to give a ‘toffee’ to all the pace loving pakiStani fans who cream themselves when they see a teenage fast bowler.

Very well said....from what I have seen, I feel Amad is a much better option than these non-penetrative trundlers

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Message to Naseem:

Turn a deaf ear to whatever Waqar says and get coaching tips from someone who can actually teach you HOW TO SWING!
There is a former coach named Mike Watkinson in Lancashire Cricket County. He is now the director.

After this series is over, get in touch with him, set up a pvt schedule and get on the plane to meet him. He will improve your bowling. Guaranteed.

And if Wasim Khan of PCB is reading this, the message for him is:
Your hands may be tied for not being able to get rid of Waqar due to whatever connections he has, but if you really want to improve the quality of pace bowling then get a consultation for our pace bowlers with a professional like Mike Watkinson of Lancashire or Tim MacCaskill of Victoria.

Let the young Pak pace bowlers attend coaching camps with them once a year or something and you will see the difference.
I am telling you, these Waqar Shaqars are useless.

 

[Xoib]

He was not bowling average speed of 144kph in Australia. His first spell was that much and it got progressively slower.

And regardless he is a club level bowler with skills of a club level one. He isn’t the age he tells so the potential to go up isn’t that high anyway.

He was picked to give a ‘toffee’ to all the pace loving pakiStani fans who cream themselves when they see a teenage fast bowler.

His average speed for the game was 143 go check the cricinfo commentary
As for those who said he never had the skills go watch his initial 4-5 tests on you tube he as doing with the ball both ways at high pace no matter how much they deny it now
The change happend when some genius asked him to reduce his run up by half around England tour all his rthhym in the bowling has been totally destroyed with this non sense desicion
He should go back to old action and sun up and try to get his body stronger to sustain that action

 

[Slog]

His average speed for the game was 143 go check the cricinfo commentary
As for those who said he never had the skills go watch his initial 4-5 tests on you tube he as doing with the ball both ways at high pace no matter how much they deny it now
The change happend when some genius asked him to reduce his run up by half around England tour all his rthhym in the bowling has been totally destroyed with this non sense desicion
He should go back to old action and sun up and try to get his body stronger to sustain that action

Tell me his stats from those 4-5 Tests where he was doing well

Apart from a hatrick he has done nothing of note

 

[Energy]

He didn't pick himself though. The management did. Waqar and Misbah are answerable for mixing formats, picking squads that don't make sense.

Latest example is Abdullah Shafique being picked for the T20Is. On what grounds?

 

[Xoib]

Tell me his stats from those 4-5 Tests where he was doing well

Apart from a hatrick he has done nothing of note

He was averaging 25 after Bangladesh test not a bad start and the 5 wicket haul vs Sl was a better spell then hatrick.

It s all right to kick him when he is down but don't deny the good stuff he showed in his start

 

[Slog]

He was averaging 25 after Bangladesh test not a bad start and the 5 wicket haul vs Sl was a better spell then hatrick.

It s all right to kick him when he is down but don't deny the good stuff he showed in his start

He has looked mediocre when he faces any batting of repute. He was picked way too early and his ceiling isn’t great anyway. He was selected to give a ‘toffee’ to fans like you so they could celebrate a so called teenage tear away pacer whilst talking attention away from the Real problems

 

[Slog]

He didn't pick himself though. The management did. Waqar and Misbah are answerable for mixing formats, picking squads that don't make sense.

Latest example is Abdullah Shafique being picked for the T20Is. On what grounds?

Yea they are the real culprits

 

[kingusama92]

He was not bowling average speed of 144kph in Australia. His first spell was that much and it got progressively slower.

And regardless he is a club level bowler with skills of a club level one. He isn’t the age he tells so the potential to go up isn’t that high anyway.

He was picked to give a ‘toffee’ to all the pace loving pakiStani fans who cream themselves when they see a teenage fast bowler.

He had an average of 16 in FC cricket before getting selected (including topping the charts at that point) and was getting international level batsmen out in Pakistan.

It was natural for him to get selected.

I'm not sure what else you look for in a young bowling prospect. He passed the eye test as well with pace, bounce, and movement on different types of pitches. Of course, no one sits down and imagines him dropping 10 KPH of speed at such a young age (whether you believe he's 18 or 21).

It's one thing for a bowler to go all-out and still not produce results. But this type of change with a watered-down bowling action suggests something is wrong with the prospect whether it's an injury or someone told Naseem to cut down on his pace to preserve his body.

 

[Shazzam]

He was averaging 25 after Bangladesh test not a bad start and the 5 wicket haul vs Sl was a better spell then hatrick.

It s all right to kick him when he is down but don't deny the good stuff he showed in his start

Thats the problem his best performances came against low tier teams. When it came to facing top teams he failed to leave an impression. Any Pakistani would dream to perform against teams like England, Australia, New Zealand.

 

[Xoib]

He has looked mediocre when he faces any batting of repute. He was picked way too early and his ceiling isn’t great anyway. He was selected to give a ‘toffee’ to fans like you so they could celebrate a so called teenage tear away pacer whilst talking attention away from the Real problems

You can have your opinion I have mine the likes of Ian Bishop praised him I rust someone like him more with his word then a random Joe like you

 

[Slog]

He had an average of 16 in FC cricket before getting selected (including topping the charts at that point) and was getting international level batsmen out in Pakistan.

It was natural for him to get selected.

I'm not sure what else you look for in a young bowling prospect. He passed the eye test as well with pace, bounce, and movement on different types of pitches. Of course, no one sits down and imagines him dropping 10 KPH of speed at such a young age (whether you believe he's 18 or 21).

It's one thing for a bowler to go all-out and still not produce results. But this type of change with a watered-down bowling action suggests something is wrong with the prospect whether it's an injury or someone told Naseem to cut down on his pace to preserve his body.

He was averaging 16 but do you know how many games he had played and on what surfaces? How do you know the wickets he took in those 5 games or so weren’t anomalies? This isn’t 1980s that you pick players for the international team (and that too for Australia tour) after playing less than half a season of competitive cricket.

 

[Shazzam]

He had an average of 16 in FC cricket before getting selected (including topping the charts at that point) and was getting international level batsmen out in Pakistan.

It was natural for him to get selected.

I'm not sure what else you look for in a young bowling prospect. He passed the eye test as well with pace, bounce, and movement on different types of pitches. Of course, no one sits down and imagines him dropping 10 KPH of speed at such a young age (whether you believe he's 18 or 21).

It's one thing for a bowler to go all-out and still not produce results. But this type of change with a watered-down bowling action suggests something is wrong with the prospect whether it's an injury or someone told Naseem to cut down on his pace to preserve his body.

He was offically 16 at the time he got selected. He had plenty of time to develop in domestic cricket before he was selected. Lets not pretend our selectors know what they are doing.

 

[Pacy with wisdom]

Tell me his stats from those 4-5 Tests where he was doing well

Apart from a hatrick he has done nothing of note

The challenge for you is :
1)keep peddling the narrative that Naseem is trash without having any technical explanation.
2) Somehow shift the blame away from Waqar, even though he handpicked Naseem, and under whom the latter has regressed alarmingly.

Everytime your little lies get exposed, you come up with new ones.
Stop being so obnoxious.

 

[Slog]

You can have your opinion I have mine the likes of Ian Bishop praised him I rust someone like him more with his word then a random Joe like you

Ian Bishop said Naseem Shah has ‘potential to be excellent.’ Very regulation praise for an upcoming talent not some ringing endorsement.

And that is besides the point. Experts get it wrong all the time. Ian Bishop also praised Ahmed Shehzad and many others who didn’t have a great career. Him and others including Manjrekar have doubted Kohli and said he may not be cut out for test cricket. It’s hilarious you have to cling to a throwaway quote by a commentator because clearly Naseem’s own performances don’t give much support for your case.

 

[Slog]

The challenge for you is
1)keep peddling the narrative that Naseem is trash without having any technical explanation.
2) Somehow shift the blame away from Waqar, even though he handpicked Naseem, and under whom the latter has regressed alarmingly.

Everytime your little lies get exposed, you come up with new ones.
Stop being so obnoxious.

I am not absolving Waqar and Misbah of any blame. They are totally responsible for picking a mediocre age fudger who is not ready for international cricket in order to apprease fans like you who get excited about ‘teenage fast bowling talents.’

 

[Shazzam]

Something I question. Normally when teams select a youngster they allow them to play Twenty20 cricket or ODi’s before they get them in for Tests. On what bases was Naseem selected for Test cricket only?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Picked way too soon. Too raw for the top level atm. His constant big mouthing hasn't done any favors for him either.

The scary thing is who we should pick for the third seamer spot? Hassan Ali isn't there who could be a straight swap. Sohail Khan is going to start bowling spin after first 7 overs.

 

[kingusama92]

He was averaging 16 but do you know how many games he had played and on what surfaces? How do you know the wickets he took in those 5 games or so weren’t anomalies? This isn’t 1980s that you pick players for the international team (and that too for Australia tour) after playing less than half a season of competitive cricket.

Almost all of the games he played in for Central Punjab were on decent batting wickets.

The game that he dominated Test cricketers/proven FC cricketers included the following wickets...

Khurram Manzoor
Abid Ali (twice)
Fawad Alam (twice)
Sarfraz Ahmed (twice).
Omair Bin Yousuf

Almost all of them were bowled and LBWs.

Was he going through a lucky spell? Unlikely because he passed the eye test too and his matches were spread across two seasons.

To be fair, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment. There's nothing wrong with letting a player develop in domestic cricket and it might have been okay for Naseem to continue dominating at that level for 1-2 seasons.

But I don't think that's the main problem here. It's the sudden drop in pace. It's one thing for a prospect to be a dud while bowling all-out (like Musa) and another to just lose your pace entirely. Young bowlers don't lose their speed unless they're hurt and/or have been told to make the change.

That's the real issue here and if he doesn't change then Naseem will 100% need 1-2 seasons in domestic cricket with the new action. No one can make this type of change at the international level.

 

[Arsal_AK]

I literally said it here the first time I saw him in the australia series that this guy is definitely not prepared or ready for international cricket. The best case scenario for him was that if he was actually 17 then he has a huge period where he can potentially improve but I knew inside that there is a limited ceiling with him. But I guess one can hope to be proven wrong. However the worst thing is that even in this best case scenario situation he should not be playing for Pakistan right now. You don’t pick players for the senior team on what they might potentially become if they aren’t international level right now. The other guy they picked was Musa lol who even in his best case scenario would be a good domestic bowler.

You said he wasn't ready for international cricket in one game where he was the best bowler on show for us. This is after he made the likes Khawaja, Haris hop around like crazy in the practice game.

On top of that you knew deep inside then that a teenager bowling in the high 140's, with best average pace in a game Starc played, had limited ceiling?

I have one question. What are you talking about? You didn't know anything, nobody did or could. This is getting beyond ridiculous now.

 

[Slog]

You said he wasn't ready for international cricket in one game where he was the best bowler on show for us. This is after he made the likes Khawaja, Haris hop around like crazy in the practice game.

On top of that you knew deep inside then that a teenager bowling in the high 140's, with best average pace in a game Starc played, had limited ceiling?

I have one question. What are you talking about? You didn't know anything, nobody did or could. This is getting beyond ridiculous now.

He was the best bowler? Which alternate world was that in? Yasir Shah and Shaheen were better than him in that first test. Heck even Harris Sohail had better figures than him. He was a liability in that match and after his first spell was a total dud as he leaked runs.

 

[Arsal_AK]

He was the best bowler? Which alternate world was that in? Yasir Shah and Shaheen were better than him in that first test. Heck even Harris Sohail had better figures than him. He was a liability in that match and after his first spell was a total dud as he leaked runs.

The world where people actually watched the match and didn't just look at cricinfo scorecards? Go back and watch his spell to Warner for staters.

Yeah total dud after the first spell when he came back the next morning and got Warner.

 

[Slog]

The world where people actually watched the match and didn't just look at cricinfo scorecards? Go back and watch his spell to Warner for staters.

Yeah total dud after the first spell when he came back the next morning and got Warner.

Yea getting a few bouncers past Warner is amazing achievement. Such low standards... the simple fact is that your claim of him being the best bowler on show is a total lie. And if he was the best bowler with that performance then our bowling must be even worse than we all imagine.

 

[Arsal_AK]

Yea getting a few bouncers past Warner is amazing achievement. Such low standards... the simple fact is that your claim of him being the best bowler on show is a total lie. And if he was the best bowler with that performance then our bowling must be even worse than we all imagine.

I am not sure it that was an amazing achievement but it sure was something. Especially considering how Warner treated the rest of the bowling attack. This too on debut. I'll take these low standards. Tell me when you find someone who meets you higher ones.

Naseem was the only one who looked like getting Warner out, did so earlier as well, unfortunately of a no ball.

Again as I said, watch the match. Or just see what Warner said afterwards.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Naseem is around 20 in reality, maybe even 21. That's still very young for a test match fast bowler.

Folks saw his average pace in his first test and got excited but it was highly unlikely that he was going to sustain it and that's exactly what's been happening. The problem is he us a bowler who is going to be reliant on pace flying be effective. Guys who bowl consistently around the 140 mark and above in tests - Starc and Cummins for eg. could only fo that from the age of 24 or so and its only at that age that the body can sustain heavy workloads at high pace if at all it can.

Naseem has already had back stress fractures and if he continues playing test cricket and tries to bowl at that pace again, there's every likelihood of his back breaking down again.

So either he'll have to find a way to become successful at a reduced pace to continue bowling or PCB have to remove him from the test squad, build his workloads up slowly in domestic for the next 3 years or so until his body is ready for the rigours of that kind of bowling much like Australia did with Cummins in particular.

 

[Xoib]

Almost all of the games he played in for Central Punjab were on decent batting wickets.

The game that he dominated Test cricketers/proven FC cricketers included the following wickets...

Khurram Manzoor
Abid Ali (twice)
Fawad Alam (twice)
Sarfraz Ahmed (twice).
Omair Bin Yousuf

Almost all of them were bowled and LBWs.

Was he going through a lucky spell? Unlikely because he passed the eye test too and his matches were spread across two seasons.

To be fair, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment. There's nothing wrong with letting a player develop in domestic cricket and it might have been okay for Naseem to continue dominating at that level for 1-2 seasons.

But I don't think that's the main problem here. It's the sudden drop in pace. It's one thing for a prospect to be a dud while bowling all-out (like Musa) and another to just lose your pace entirely. Young bowlers don't lose their speed unless they're hurt and/or have been told to make the change.

That's the real issue here and if he doesn't change then Naseem will 100% need 1-2 seasons in domestic cricket with the new action. No one can make this type of change at the international level.

When it ain't broken why fix it.

Come England he was bowling with half run up and that totally put his rthym whose bright was it to change his action while playing test cricket?

 

[Savak]

Waqar effect on Naseem Shah. No other explanation for his short run up, line and length stuff.

 

[Xoib]

Dehati Waqar effect on Naseem Shah. No other explanation for his short run up, line and length stuff.

Waqar of all people should know Naseem will never be a success as a medium pace hit the top of off merchant.

When he started he was quick who bowled bouncers or skidded on to pads or stumps this was a perfect MO for a bowler like him all it needed that his current mode of bowling was fine tuned and not modified to convert him in to an Abbas style metronome.