Mickey Arthur vs Waqar Younis

[emranabbas]

i know its mickey Arthur's first series but has he done anything different to waqar younas so far?

 

[cricwiz]

It's too early to guess, but our Test team is not the standard to guage him. Pakistan's Test team has been good for a number of years - whether it was Whatmore, Mohsin Khan, Waqar or Mickey Arthur now..

We will get to see the real difference (or none) in the limited overs series. Not expecting any significant change in 1st series or so, but we will get to know in 6 month time

 

[Junaids]

Yes.

The fielding has improved a lot, thanks to the introduction of Steve Rixon.

And Misbah is no longer getting away with blind loyalty to failing veterans.

 

[godzilla]

Yes.

The fielding has improved a lot, thanks to the introduction of Steve Rixon.

And Misbah is no longer getting away with blind loyalty to failing veterans.

prove that misbah was 'getting away with blind loyalty to failing veterans'. this is getting to the point of slander. you fail to support this made up opinion every time you are challenged on it.

 

[Junaids]

prove that misbah was 'getting away with blind loyalty to failing veterans'. this is getting to the point of slander. you fail to support this made up opinion every time you are challenged on it.

From Iqbal Qasim to Haroon Rashid to Inzamam you keep selecting these geriatrics. The only common thread - and it extends to PSL - is Misbah.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

i know its mickey Arthur's first series but has he done anything different to waqar younas so far?

He gives much better interviews and sounds like he has a gameplan. Can't really judge yet as he can't magically transform the batsmen into superstars. He warned Hafeez and then dropped him following his match losing performance at Edgebaston.

I'll have a better idea following the ODIs and T20 games over the next six months, as this is the area where Waqar was still plodding along with 1990s era tactics.

 

[godzilla]

From Iqbal Qasim to Haroon Rashid to Inzamam you keep selecting these geriatrics. The only common thread - and it extends to PSL - is Misbah.

thats no proof of anything. it still happens in the teams he is not captain of. do you know who the selection committee, executive board and chairmen have been during these times and given the continuity there, why doesnt that mean that they are the ones behind the selections? or behind the pressure on the lame duck selectors?

and what about the multiple times mibah has publicly and expressly stated that he does not select the squads?

 

[LowKiiSavage]

Waqar was made twice the coach and failed spectacularly in both. Not to mention he has the 'honor' of being the coach of the team that got thrashed by bangladesh; our prenninal punching bags.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Arthur has been good so far but hes lucky that rubbish like Shehzad hasnt been in his team

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

prove that misbah was 'getting away with blind loyalty to failing veterans'. this is getting to the point of slander. you fail to support this made up opinion every time you are challenged on it.

Zulfiqur Babar.

 

[aloo paratha]

We can't really tell the difference lol, it's the players

 

[Noman]

To Early to say. But has got The basic wrong. No Way should sohail Khan play The 4 test. We should had 5 bowling option because of England long batting Line up. Bowlers have been poor, But seems We did NOT have any special plan to Moeen and England lower batting ordee

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

A better man manager. Waqar has no clue how to manage. He is a bowling coach nothing more.

 

[Justcrazy]

Arthur is much better coach than Waqar , but coach and selectors must work in Tandem.

 

[Hasan123]

Seems to have a game plan, but will judge him off odis. Think he will do well in tests.

 

[Nothing matters]

He gives much better interviews and sounds like he has a gameplan. Can't really judge yet as he can't magically transform the superstars into batsmen. He warned Hafeez and then dropped him following his match losing performance at Edgebaston.

I'll have a better idea following the ODIs and T20 games over the next six months, as this is the area where Waqar was still plodding along with 1990s era tactics.

Correction.

 

[Sherlock]

Can't tell until he's given a year, sacked, reinstalled as coach for 2 years and then failed again. That's when we can truly judge him.

 

[cricketInsight]

lots to prove but if the team doesn't progress under him - our greatest fears may come true:

Its is wasn't the coach stupid! We dont have enough 'talunt'!

 

[#GreenRoars]

For now, Mickey >>> Wiky.

 

[NauV]

Like a lot of you guys have already said, I think it's way too early to judge . . but I love that he stresses on 2 things so much (and even more important in the pakistan team)
1.) Fitness - I think people who are not fit over a period of time, we will see them getting knocked back to domestic cricket . . I expect the fitness of our players in general to improve
2.) Fielding & discipline (on and off the field) - If there is one thing that has been the difference between Pakistan and England this series, that has been our fielding and discipline . . we dropped a crucial catch yesterday and had bairstow caught of a no ball . . england should not have scored more than 180ish! and Off the field, it seems he really wants the team to gel and be hard on quality practice rather than running them ragged everyday . .

So few good things . . If I were Mickey Arthur though, I would really push the PCB to hire a fast bowling coach . .

And completely agreed! It's the one day team that is REALLY struggling . . . and I don't expect pakistan to do well in the england one day series . . its his first series, plus england has become a mercurial one day side . . but in the long run, that will be a good barometer of how well mickey is doing

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Mickey exposed.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Waqar had 3 stints i.e. 2005-2006, 2010-2011 and 2014-2016, i.e. 4 years. Mickey Arthur has had 7-8 months so far and in these 7-8 months the team has faced its toughest assignments in England, New Zealand and Australia and worse of all have played non-stop Cricket where the team has had very little time to recover, no time to hold a full fledged off season training camp, no time to talk to the selectors, take a deeper look at the domestic players in depth.

Hopefully we will see Mickey take full charge after this tour.

 

[Rayyman]

I knew Arthur made a bad decision when he moved Azam up to 3. Complete knee-jerk reaction. Just because someone plays well at a position in a particular format, doesn't mean he will play well at that position in another format.

 

[Abid Z]

A head coach and captain with a good nucleus of players will only get you to a 50% effective team. You need good selectors and local level coaches to keep on blooding young players and developing their allround skills and until Pakistan start doing this on a regular basis the successes of the team will be very erratic

 

[sa]

I knew Arthur made a bad decision when he moved Azam up to 3. Complete knee-jerk reaction. Just because someone plays well at a position in a particular format, doesn't mean he will play well at that position in another format.

Now we can't start sending everyone to no.6 position . Azam usually comes alot later since aslam and azhar would spend 20-30 overs losing the shine.

 

[AlphaFighter]

I knew Arthur made a bad decision when he moved Azam up to 3. Complete knee-jerk reaction. Just because someone plays well at a position in a particular format, doesn't mean he will play well at that position in another format.

Rebuilding requires tolerance of failures, defeat and patience from all the stakeholders especially the fans.

We have to move forward and plan for the future especially given the reality of post Misbah and post YK reality.

 

[HussainRx8]

Rebuilding requires tolerance of failures, defeat and patience from all the stakeholders especially the fans.

We have to move forward and plan for the future especially given the reality of post Misbah and post YK reality.

This is too simple-minded. There's a difference between rebuilding and hopelessly waiting for a potential ATG to show up.

Actual rebuilding requires building PCB's institutional capacity and overhauling the domestic structure - neither of which has materialized.

 

[AlphaFighter]

This is too simple-minded. There's a difference between rebuilding and hopelessly waiting for a potential ATG to show up.

Actual rebuilding requires building PCB's institutional capacity and overhauling the domestic structure - neither of which has materialized.

Persisting with Misbah and YK is indeed hopeless, not with Babar Azam, Asad Shafiq, Azhar Ali and co.

 

[HussainRx8]

Blaming coaching or current players is a misguided crusade. If I may borrow and amend the famous line from Bill Clinton, "It's the domestic cricket structure, stupid."

 

[daytrader]

Mickey exposed.

No doubt

 

[Ellipsism]

This is too simple-minded. There's a difference between rebuilding and hopelessly waiting for a potential ATG to show up.

Actual rebuilding requires building PCB's institutional capacity and overhauling the domestic structure - neither of which has materialized.

Overhauling the domestic structure has been spoken about for years, but the only action taken thus far has been axing a few teams from the QEA.

 

[HussainRx8]

Persisting with Misbah and YK is indeed hopeless, not with Babar Azam, Asad Shafiq, Azhar Ali and co.

Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali have been playing for how long now? It has taken them significantly more games to come of age than most modern day Australian and Indian players. Our domestic structure is broken. It has failed to harness and develop the talent we have.

 

[HussainRx8]

Overhauling the domestic structure has been spoken about for years, but the only action taken thus far has been axing a few teams from the QEA.

Thank you. PCB is bound up with local power brokers (regions and departments) who will resist any attempt to overhaul the domestic structure. You can write a whole book on the political economy of our domestic cricket.

 

[spade]

Waqar Younis doesn't deserve a coaching role.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

We overstate the importance of a coach

 

[daytrader]

Zulfiqur Babar.

Misbah should've got his way, Zulfi would've been handy in this series. Australia is playing 2 spinners in the last test eventhough they dont need to as the seamers have done their job but they still pick the best team for the conditions even in a dead rubber! Mickey is not reading the conditions and match situtations well. He's missed many tricks on this tour

 

[AlphaFighter]

Misbah should've got his way, Zulfi would've been handy in this series. Australia is playing 2 spinners in the last test eventhough they dont need to as the seamers have done their job but they still pick the best team for the conditions even in a dead rubber! Mickey is not reading the conditions and match situtations well. He's missed many tricks on this tour

Mickey or Misbah? One has been in the job for only 8 months while the other has been in charge for 7 long years. You figure as to who is calling the shots.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Misbah should've got his way, Zulfi would've been handy in this series. Australia is playing 2 spinners in the last test eventhough they dont need to as the seamers have done their job but they still pick the best team for the conditions even in a dead rubber! Mickey is not reading the conditions and match situtations well. He's missed many tricks on this tour

Maybe Pak should have played another spinner but not Zulfi.

Zulfi should have retired long time ago. Pakistan failed to groom a proper second spinner.

 

[Slog]

The team has regressed under Mickey Arthur in all indicators

Even ODI form has been patchy till smashing a hopeless and depleted WI side at home. Though Atleast it seems he is taking some decisions to try to change our brand of cricket

In tests it has been a disaster. His approach has been downright pathetic if you ask me. Only a person with bias will reject that we haven't regressed under him

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Maybe Pak should have played another spinner but not Zulfi.

Zulfi should have retired long time ago. Pakistan failed to groom a proper second spinner.

No young player was groomed under Misbah, period.

 

[Ellipsism]

The team has regressed under Mickey Arthur in all indicators

Even ODI form has been patchy till smashing a hopeless and depleted WI side at home. Though Atleast it seems he is taking some decisions to try to change our brand of cricket

In tests it has been a disaster. His approach has been downright pathetic if you ask me. Only a person with bias will reject that we haven't regressed under him

The team hasn't changed, Misbah's still using the same old tactics. I don't see how the team has supposedly regressed due to Mickey.

 

[Slog]

The team hasn't changed, Misbah's still using the same old tactics. I don't see how the team has supposedly regressed due to Mickey.

The tactics clearly aren't the same.

First the botched handling of Shafiqs move up the order

Then the failed attempt to play an all rounder (Nawaz)

Few others which I pointed out in a detailed post a month or so ago (will try to find it)

All in all there has been an attempt to change and it's failed. Also Misbahs captaincy has been unimaginative

 

[daytrader]

Mickey or Misbah? One has been in the job for only 8 months while the other has been in charge for 7 long years. You figure as to who is calling the shots.

Sharjeel in for Sami? Do you really think Misbah would select him? Mickey is clearly calling the shots otherwise Sohail would've played all the games. Sohail's exclusion from ODIS is also evidence that Mickey has a stronger pull than what is perceived.

Mickey is Australian so naturally he's the SME on the conditions and pitches. If we get the wrong analysis of that then we cant really blame Misbah now can we? Also Misbah is not the kind of personality to make decisions on his own. Waqar and him had a good partnership and an understanding of where to take the team. Mickey though is caught up in trying to reign the ropes and gain more control rather than do his job and provide solid advice.

 

[daytrader]

No young player was groomed under Misbah, period.

Azhar and Asad have been. These two are ready to take the ropes. If it wasn't for Misbah's persistence these two would've been discarded long ago due to not having any talunt

 

[daytrader]

The team hasn't changed, Misbah's still using the same old tactics. I don't see how the team has supposedly regressed due to Mickey.

Batting wise Misbah's defensive mindset is the reason we posted two 400+ scores in this series. We lost due to bowling which historically has been our strength. And the bowling has regressed due to Mickey not reading the conditions correctly

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Azhar and Asad have been. These two are ready to take the ropes. If it wasn't for Misbah's persistence these two would've been discarded long ago due to not having any talunt

Azhar and Asad have been regular members of the teams for a long time now. They were invested in years ago. I'm talking about the past 2-3 years. Misbah's continuously avoided picking younger players. He's wasted a lot of time on playing his buddies Hafeez, Zulfiqar and what have you who everybody knew had no future and would be exposed outside of their comfort zone.

 

[Slog]

Azhar and Asad have been. These two are ready to take the ropes. If it wasn't for Misbah's persistence these two would've been discarded long ago due to not having any talunt

They were already selected by Waqar and then chief selector in summer 2010 when Misbah was not even in the team

 

[imshally81]

We need Proper bowling coach like, Waseem Akram, Shoaib Akhter or Macgrath

 

[daytrader]

Azhar and Asad have been regular members of the teams for a long time now. They were invested in years ago. I'm talking about the past 2-3 years. Misbah's continuously avoided picking younger players. He's wasted a lot of time on playing his buddies Hafeez, Zulfiqar and what have you who everybody knew had no future and would be exposed outside of their comfort zone.

In the past 2-3 years Misbah retired from other formats. I don't blame him for being result oriented near the end of his career especially when he put in the hard work in stabalizing the team for 4-5 years before then. And as a captain of the National team, results should be our only expectation from him, which he delivered.
He had two youngsters in Azhar and Asad and under his guidance they have flourished. Grooming talent beyond that should've been the responsibility of other PCB machinery. You simply don't fix what is not broken

 

[Chief Destroyer]

In the past 2-3 years Misbah retired from other formats. I don't blame him for being result oriented near the end of his career especially when he put in the hard work in stabalizing the team for 4-5 years before then. And as a captain of the National team, results should be our only expectation from him, which he delivered.
He had two youngsters in Azhar and Asad and under his guidance they have flourished. Grooming talent beyond that should've been the responsibility of other PCB machinery. You simply don't fix what is not broken

Nice excuses lol.

 

[daytrader]

Nice excuses lol.

lol look bro he did a fine job as Captain and stabilized the team in our darkest moments. The man deserves respect for his sincerity to the cause and making us a competitive team. Now that we are losing, we can't just start blaming all our failures on him. It's time others are held accountable as well

 

[Chief Destroyer]

lol look bro he did a fine job as Captain and stabilized the team in our darkest moments. The man deserves respect for his sincerity to the cause and making us a competitive team. Now that we are losing, we can't just start blaming all our failures on him. It's time others are held accountable as well

He shouldn't be the only one blamed but I'm going to call him out for his failures. Obviously the rotten PCB have done their best to not give a damn until the boat starts sinking, as usual.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No young player was groomed under Misbah, period.

One of the many many reasons why I never bought into the Misbah is a great captain hype during his peak days.

Very very likeable fellow...he was very good in one form of captaincy and was a great leader....but had limited tactical skills, no vision and didn't even plan out what his team needed for the short term.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mickey Arthur once again realising that coaching the Pakistan cricket team is one of the most stressful jobs in the world of sport <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/KRB4UNENNF">pic.twitter.com/KRB4UNENNF</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/816538412777934849">January 4, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mamoon]

You can't compare a fitness coach to a head coach. Waqar has never had any tactical nous, Mickey is a qualified coach.

 

[Markhor]

Arthur needs to be given time to build a squad. He has been on the road non-stop and hasn't had opportunity to watch much domestic cricket.

He has tried to give youngsters a chance like Aslam and Azam. Sharjeel Khan and Hasan Ali have been given long rope in LOIs. Our LOI form has been much improved - undefeated in 8 matches.

Microsoft Word master Waqar was lucky he padded his record in UAE but resigned and avoided these tough tours of Australia and New Zealand.

But I'm sure he'd have typed up a damn fine report about our failings.

 

[Stallion__]

Definitely not agree with how he handles himself in media.

His real test starts after this tour.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - I'll continue with the discussion here as this thread is more appropriate.

Its very interesting though

- The England series draw was due to Mickey who had taken a few weeks earlier but Blake for The Debacle Down Under goes to Waqar and not Mickey. First time Im hearing this logic where the effect of a new coach is maximum at the start but as time goes the effect of the previous coach comes to play

- Waqar is to blame for ODI failures and failures under Arthur abroad but no credit will be given to him for the 2 years of domination in UAE. Ofcourse it doesn't matter that we didn't win a single series there for 2+ years before Waqar came and last year struggled against WI who are clearly the weakest side that has ever come to UAE for a test series. But no. Mickey has no part in that decline despite a dozen botched experiments

- An ODI series win in UAE against a depleted WI side consisting of players who didn't want to be even there somehow holds more value than an ODI series win away in SL.

How do these folks reconcile the contradicition must be interesting

1) I've always maintained Waqar deserves some credit for laying the groundwork for England series draw. However it is not blasphemy to suggest there were flaws in that team Waqar left behind. We may have even won that series had Waqar, in his 4 years as coach invested in two proper openers instead of walking wickets against swing in Hafeez and Masood, and done what Arthur only needed two matches to realise Azhar would be better utilised opening.

2) Our style of attritional Test cricket has been the same regardless of of coach under Misbah. We rack up a big total, utilise scoreboard pressure and attack with spin. We beat Sri Lanka and England in 2011 and 2012 in UAE under chaimaster cheerleader Mohsin Khan so Waqar doesn't have a monopoly on our strong UAE record. We drew the two series in UAE in 2013 against strong teams in Sri Lanka (who still had Sanga and Mahela) and a South Africa side who hadn't lost away since 2006. There was no disgrace in that and our unbeaten UAE record stands. But even if Waqar is to be credited with our UAE Test record, then by the same token he must carry the can for our dismal UAE LOI record.

3) Sharjah defeat vs WI was disappointing but we still won the series. Players took their foot off the gas and already had one eye on ANZ tours. But yes Arthur should've done more to guard against complacency.

4) Waqar supporters keep scoffing at the 6-0 vs WI yet they were ranked above us in both ODIs and T20s. If they were a demotivated rabble, then what does that say about Pakistan who were ranked even below them in LOIs after the Waqar era ?

5) Still no answer about Waqar's failure to develop a decent seam attack.

6) Still no answer about Waqar's inability to spot talent. He rightly called for investment in youngsters in his 2015 report yet debuted 39 year old Rifatullah Mohmand and recycled TTFs like Anwar Ali, Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Sami and Mohammad Irfan whilst performing alternatives in domestic were ignored. Waqar also debuted players like Bilal Asif and Iftikhar Ahmed who have no business at international level. Waqar failed to introduce fresh blood to an ageing Test team in his second tenure - a mistake Arthur is trying to recitfy now with Aslam and Babar being given a run. Waqar calls for developing fast bowling ARs yet dropped Amir Yamin after one match where he performed well.

Obviously criticism will be harsher when such poor decisions are made by someone who's been part and parcel of Pakistan cricket since the 1980s and has been coach for most of the past 6 years compared to a newly appointed foreign coach who's only been in the job for six months.

 

[Markhor]

We overstate the importance of a coach

Certainly every issue with a team cannot be pinned on a coach. The quality of players and the captain are more important factors. However a coach DOES HAVE a role in identifying and developing talent for the future, team selection and must have tactical nous. Waqar was unsuccessful on all fronts when one looks at the facts.

People say the coach cannot resolve anything due to our poor domestic system. Yet Bob Woolmer had to deal with the same flawed domestic system yet was a successful coach who took us to #2 in the world because he had a great eye for talent and was a world renowned coach with experience of developing talent.

A coach still has to maximise the results from their limited resources, and the more qualified and able they are - the higher chance they can do so.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

I think Waqar was not a good coach but i see no improvement with Arthur.

I think they both are bad or are unable to influence Misbah's awful captaincy.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Certainly every issue with a team cannot be pinned on a coach. The quality of players and the captain are more important factors. However a coach DOES HAVE a role in identifying and developing talent for the future, team selection and must have tactical nous. Waqar was unsuccessful on all fronts when one looks at the facts.

People say the coach cannot resolve anything due to our poor domestic system. Yet Bob Woolmer had to deal with the same flawed domestic system yet was a successful coach who took us to #2 in the world because he had a great eye for talent and was a world renowned coach with experience of developing talent.

A coach still has to maximise the results from their limited resources, and the more qualified and able they are - the higher chance they can do so.

You concluded it perfectly. A coach has to maximize the results from the limited resources.

For this to happen, more time has to be given to a coach to judge him rather than 6-8 months. Yes, waqar wasn't tactically great as far as LOIs go. Let's see if Mickey can improve our LOI fortunes.

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Blaming bowlers for the outcome of the series is not fair. How about Sloppy fielding ? Poor planning ? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakVsAust?src=hash">#PakVsAust</a> Test series.</p>— waqar younis (@waqyounis99) <a href="https://twitter.com/waqyounis99/status/819472371589390336">January 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hmm...

 

[786warrior]

You can't compare a fitness coach to a head coach. Waqar has never had any tactical nous, Mickey is a qualified coach.

Bro - even the world's greatest jockey can't win the Grand National riding a donkey!!

If the players are not prepared to put in the hard yards and take full advantage of all his knowledge/ experience the you can forget it!

 

[Markhor]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Blaming bowlers for the outcome of the series is not fair. How about Sloppy fielding ? Poor planning ? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakVsAust?src=hash">#PakVsAust</a> Test series.</p>— waqar younis (@waqyounis99) <a href="https://twitter.com/waqyounis99/status/819472371589390336">January 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hmm...

Pakistan took 33 out of 60 wickets in this series at an average of 61.63 and an economy of 4.25. This has been Pakistan’s worst ever bowling performance in a three-match series and worst ever bowling display in Australia.

Yet Waqar thinks bowling is not to blame ?

 

[cricketInsight]

Mickey is a decent coach. I would even go as far as saying a bit better than Waqar. He is also suited to our environment being an outsider.

It just shows that coach alone cannot make enourmous difference. The game is played on the field.

 

[Slog]

Pakistan took 33 out of 60 wickets in this series at an average of 61.63 and an economy of 4.25. This has been Pakistan’s worst ever bowling performance in a three-match series and worst ever bowling display in Australia.

Yet Waqar thinks bowling is not to blame ?

Poor planning comes first

And fielding did hurt us too obviously

Also it's really lame to always throw your players under the bus

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] - I'll continue with the discussion here as this thread is more appropriate.



1) I've always maintained Waqar deserves some credit for laying the groundwork for England series draw. However it is not blasphemy to suggest there were flaws in that team Waqar left behind. We may have even won that series had Waqar, in his 4 years as coach invested in two proper openers instead of walking wickets against swing in Hafeez and Masood, and done what Arthur only needed two matches to realise Azhar would be better utilised opening.

I have never said Waqar was a perfect coach and often criticised his approach in ODIs.

However nice manufacturing of history there with Azhar. Waqar was the first one to use him as an opener and the fact is that Mickey did the same till ther other openers' positions became untenable.

The fact is that you play a game to win and in UAE Hafeez was definitely one of your match winners.

Even right now if you give me Hafeez of 2014/15 vs Sami Aslam in a test in UAE you would be crazy to not go with Hafeez.

Mickey himself was all praise for Shan Masood and the management tipped him for success in England, so its not like they arent guilty of him playing. In any case Masood was dropped for the last test under Waqar and Azhar WAS PROMOTED as opener so maybe you should get a check on the timelines. Mickey was the other who put Azhar back at #3.

In truth I had no issues with it and happening may dictate a return there but just pointing out your factual inaccuracy here.

2) Our style of attritional Test cricket has been the same regardless of of coach under Misbah. We rack up a big total, utilise scoreboard pressure and attack with spin. We beat Sri Lanka and England in 2011 and 2012 in UAE under chaimaster cheerleader Mohsin Khan so Waqar doesn't have a monopoly on our strong UAE record. We drew the two series in UAE in 2013 against strong teams in Sri Lanka (who still had Sanga and Mahela) and a South Africa side who hadn't lost away since 2006. There was no disgrace in that and our unbeaten UAE record stands. But even if Waqar is to be credited with our UAE Test record, then by the same token he must carry the can for our dismal UAE LOI record.

Only that for 2+ years under Misbah we didnt even win a series in UAE. And that SL team. We had defeated them a year earlier in UAE aswell so the 2013 draw excuse doesnt hold esp when the series was saved on the last day by a special partnership

Mohson Khan used exactly the same tactics which Waqar used and was immediately after Waqar's tenure so its normal to say that it was still Waqar's team. Also Waqar being head coach predates Misbah's appointment as skipper. He was the one who head coach inducted the core of the team in the squad which got us the UAE success. (Azhar, Shafiq, Ajmal [dropped Kaneria for him], Junaid, Wahab). That is fact.

3) Sharjah defeat vs WI was disappointing but we still won the series. Players took their foot off the gas and already had one eye on ANZ tours. But yes Arthur should've done more to guard against complacency.

Priceless gold there.

So now losses are being excused. In any case what you are saying was said by Mickey Arthur too and he said that we will make up for this on the NZ tour as thats where the focus apparently was then.

Well guess what. We got blanked there and lost a series there for the first time in 30 years. And the NZ side was bang average too.

So lets excuse the WI loss. What about the embarassment in NZ. Or is a little bit of green an excuse for a loss when this hasnt been the case in the past.

4) Waqar supporters keep scoffing at the 6-0 vs WI yet they were ranked above us in both ODIs and T20s. If they were a demotivated rabble, then what does that say about Pakistan who were ranked even below them in LOIs after the Waqar era ?

Yes I will scoff on it and ridicule it because it deserves it

And more intellectual dishonesty there. You earlier mentioned that West Indies side had beaten us in WC 2015. (which even then I said was not defensible)

Asides from the fact that this was an away tour for them, lets take a look at who was missing from the WI side compared to side which bettered us:
Chris Gayle
Dwayne Bravo
Andre Russell (MOM in WC match)
Lendl Simmons
Dwayne Smith
Darren Sammy

So excuse me for not rating a home win over a B grade WI side missing half its first teamers. The way you praise it is similar to what Shehzad fans do with his captaincy in Pakistan Cup 2015 and use it as a case to make him our captain.

Also its always interesting that you mention this to no end but never mention the away series win in SL which anyday was a hundred times bigger achievement.

5) Still no answer about Waqar's failure to develop a decent seam attack.

What no answer? I have said that the pace attack was mediocre overall.

But in Tests the pace attack did its job and in WC 2015 had a good outing in second half of tournament.

You can only work with what you have. Im not expecting Mickey to do wonders and make it a world class bowling outfit and certainly wont hold it against him if he doesnt.

But hopefully we wont be making more world records under him in ODIs (Conceding 444). The simple fact is that bowling is regressing right now.

[SUB][/SUB]6) Still no answer about Waqar's inability to spot talent. He rightly called for investment in youngsters in his 2015 report yet debuted 39 year old Rifatullah Mohmand and recycled TTFs like Anwar Ali, Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz, Mohammad Sami and Mohammad Irfan whilst performing alternatives in domestic were ignored. Waqar also debuted players like Bilal Asif and Iftikhar Ahmed who have no business at international level. Waqar failed to introduce fresh blood to an ageing Test team in his second tenure - a mistake Arthur is trying to recitfy now with Aslam and Babar being given a run. Waqar calls for developing fast bowling ARs yet dropped Amir Yamin after one match where he performed well.

Enough talent was debuted under Waqar and a lot of them did well. The core of your side was picked by Waqar. Asad, Azhar etc were his investments when the awaam wanted Umar Akmal jr and Shehzad. Babar had always been marked for a spot in the team and Haris had a great start but injuries intervened. Yasir, Sarfaraz etc all became fixures under Waqar.

Its funny you ask for domestic performers to be rewarded when Iftikhar was exactly that.

Yes in T20s he was a bit left field with his choices. But honestly I dont mind Rifatullah, Bilal Asif, Nauman Anwar type punts for that format because it is very short term and there were domestic performances to back it.

I do agree that some wrong horses were backed at times.

Overall Mickey Arthur has been a disaster so far whose legacy till now has been conceding the largest total in the history of the ODI fomat and leading to us to the most consecutive number of test losses we have ever had.

I dont see the situation becoming better in Tests because everything he has done since he has strated to make changes to the team personnel and style of cricket has has more or less backfired. In ODIs I havent made the call yet but yes he has tried to change our approach and bring us to the moden times so I will give credit for that. But eventually results have to come

 

[Pete Rose]

If there is one place where Arthur can show immediate signs of improvement vs his predecessor, it's the odi side

 

[Slog]

If there is one place where Arthur can show immediate signs of improvement vs his predecessor, it's the odi side

Yes. This ODI series will be a good judge

I dont even care about the scoreline. Just need to see the approach and tactics.

 

[waleed88]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Blaming bowlers for the outcome of the series is not fair. How about Sloppy fielding ? Poor planning ? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PakVsAust?src=hash">#PakVsAust</a> Test series.</p>— waqar younis (@waqyounis99) <a href="https://twitter.com/waqyounis99/status/819472371589390336">January 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hmm...

Waqar siding with the bowlers coz he's groomed them for 2 years.. he has an attachment to them, he also knows they are the best we have.. no point going after them when they know the let the team down

 

[Markhor]

The tactics were spot on today. It seemed we had a plan for all the Australian batsmen and executed them well.

The LOI bowling has improved since the England series.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

The tactics were spot on today. It seemed we had a plan for all the Australian batsmen and executed them well.

The LOI bowling has improved since the England series.

Yes but what was most important was we had a good captain now to actually execute those plans in the middle at the right time

 

[Pete Rose]

Two games but they've dismantled warners game quite ruthlessly. The coaching staff credit for getting the execution right