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Mickey Arthur's tenure so far

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Hawkeye

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We all know our Test performance is a result of long-term team stability, captaincy, previous coach and other factors.

Mickey has just come into the side - his real test is transforming Pakistan's LOI sides, give them an overhaul and bring up the ranking from being ranked #9.

Has he been doing anything for that? The team is open to selections, chop-n-change, unlike the Test team, where the positions are locked.

Not much changes possible in the Test lineup. However, loads of possibilities in ODIs/T20s.

So far, he has recalled:
* Irfan for Hafeez
* Preferring Imad and Nawaz
* Sees Malik as a 'finisher' and #6


These changes are not in sync with how a modern ODI outfit should look like. Not even close.

We have a lineup full of accumulators - Malik, Azhar, Hafeez, Nawaz, Imad.

Only one clean striker - Sharjeel.

Is he going to make any impact? Any transformations in the upcoming tour?
 
Forgot to mention - he's been saying 'big words' like above 30s should perform etc.

But can he act on them?
 
Hawkeye said:
Forgot to mention - he's been saying 'big words' like above 30s should perform etc.

But can he act on them?
Click to expand...

It's his first series.

I'd give him time. Let's see if there is change in approach

But it's true no matter how well we do in tests he will have to be judged on ODIs and t20s because that's what he was brought to fix
 
When you have rubbish in your line up there is nothing he can do. Give him the lineup he wants and than judge him
 
What choices he had? He probably asked for all rounders and he got them in the former of Nawaz and imad, it's not his fault that they can't slog, also he is not aware of domestic hard hitters either
 
muhammad saad said:
What choices he had? He probably asked for all rounders and he got them in the former of Nawaz and imad, it's not his fault that they can't slog, also he is not aware of domestic hard hitters either
Click to expand...

Who are these superheroes in domestics?
 
Slog said:
It's his first series.

I'd give him time. Let's see if there is change in approach

But it's true no matter how well we do in tests he will have to be judged on ODIs and t20s because that's what he was brought to fix
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely, he needs time. We'll see what he does in the next series.

Hasan123 said:
When you have rubbish in your line up there is nothing he can do. Give him the lineup he wants and than judge him
Click to expand...

What lineup does he want?

So far he has expressed his likeness for Malik and recalled Irfan. :danish
 
Hawkeye said:
Yeah, absolutely, he needs time. We'll see what he does in the next series.



What lineup does he want?

So far he has expressed his likeness for Malik and recalled Irfan. :danish
Click to expand...

He clearly wants a younger team than this one.
 
He insisted on getting Yasir in the ODI side. Oops.

He doesn't handle adversity well. Its good that Pak got some test success early on in his tenure. Else he would have gone all Greg Chappell on Pak team. Still to be seen if he ends up going north or south with this Pak team.
 
Hawkeye said:
We all know our Test performance is a result of long-term team stability, captaincy, previous coach and other factors.

Mickey has just come into the side - his real test is transforming Pakistan's LOI sides, give them an overhaul and bring up the ranking from being ranked #9.

Has he been doing anything for that? The team is open to selections, chop-n-change, unlike the Test team, where the positions are locked.

Not much changes possible in the Test lineup. However, loads of possibilities in ODIs/T20s.

So far, he has recalled:
* Irfan for Hafeez
* Preferring Imad and Nawaz
* Sees Malik as a 'finisher' and #6


These changes are not in sync with how a modern ODI outfit should look like. Not even close.

We have a lineup full of accumulators - Malik, Azhar, Hafeez, Nawaz, Imad.

Only one clean striker - Sharjeel.

Is he going to make any impact? Any transformations in the upcoming tour?
Click to expand...

ODIs have become longer T20Is and so have become useless.
Mickey should only be judged on Tests results the real cricket.
 
It's all part of the plan. By showing how terrible the current roster is, he will have free run to get whatever players and whatever training program he wants.
 
You will see what Micky is made of in the WI series.


IF nothing changes next month then what you are saying will be true.
 
It's not Arthur, Waqar would have done a lot worse.

It's the selectors and just the current state of Pakistan cricket.

Wahab is one of the most overrated bowlers ever yet all you people complaining now all wanted him in the side after his spell in the WC.

You've got Irfan... Lol
Junaid...
Anwar Ali
Bhatti

all are rubbish

no talent in Pakistan

with bat/ball
 
Hasan123 said:
He clearly wants a younger team than this one.
Click to expand...

Really? I forgot this one:
Yasir Shah! He wants him too :))
Ind_Yeah said:
He insisted on getting Yasir in the ODI side. Oops.

He doesn't handle adversity well. Its good that Pak got some test success early on in his tenure. Else he would have gone all Greg Chappell on Pak team. Still to be seen if he ends up going north or south with this Pak team.
Click to expand...
 
He has not had enough time to get deep into Pakistan cricket. His job is not just to coach but to build a better strategy for ODIs and as a result demand those players who can execute his plans. He will have to look into domestic cricket himself if he really is to make an impact. With this set of players he will struggle 9/10 times. You can maybe give some of the younger guys benefit of the doubt and think they might improve through training. But the older ones like Hafeez, Malik are not going to get any better with time.
 
Mesbah and Younis Khan and the fitness program before the series brought in the success. Mickey didn't do anything with the team yet. Yasir was there from the beginning. One will see how good he is after the retirement of those two batsmen.

ODI is a different story. They are running in to a red hot England team who are a settled side, at home, and knows their roles. Pak limited over teams are still searching for their identity. Must give a little more time than 3 games.
 
Last edited:
This is how Arthur rolls in ODI's. He likes chasing world record scores #SAvsAusin06
 
We only have 4 parts of the jigsaw in place

4 babar
5 sarfaraz
9 Hasan (must be given a run) I like what I've seen. Forget the PP experts who are looking at his output in 2 games, I see certain growth potential there.
10 Amir

The other 7 spots are up in the air.
I'm OK with giving malik a run at 6

Given this scenario we r going to need to be very very patient, and look to make small steps
 
Abdullah said:
We only have 4 parts of the jigsaw in place

4 babar
5 sarfaraz
9 Hasan (must be given a run) I like what I've seen. Forget the PP experts who are looking at his output in 2 games, I see certain growth potential there.
10 Amir

The other 7 spots are up in the air.
I'm OK with giving malik a run at 6

Given this scenario we r going to need to be very very patient, and look to make small steps
Click to expand...

Malik? That's the first guy who should NOT be on the team sheet. Most pathetic player right now.

Then Wahab etc.
 
Hawkeye said:
Malik? That's the first guy who should NOT be on the team sheet. Most pathetic player right now.

Then Wahab etc.
Click to expand...

Not unexpected from u.just knowing 4 players in ur ideal starting 11 eleven is a disastrous position to be in, so I give him malik and trust me malik will not get a long rope
 
An interesting and difficult challenge for Mickey here. At this point, all hopes are pinned on him - I hope he gets the leverage from PCB too. I dont see any other agents of change.
 
Arthur cannot lead on the field you have a pedestrian captain who has no clue how to rotate the bowlers and set fields.
 
cricketInsight said:
An interesting and difficult challenge for Mickey here. At this point, all hopes are pinned on him - I hope he gets the leverage from PCB too. I dont see any other agents of change.
Click to expand...

PCB & Inzi will have to listen to him after this series. He has already said publicly that all players are on notice (especially the senior pros) so Inzi will have to consider his opinion. We may see lots of players dropped after this series e.g. Hafeez, Malik, Azhar Ali, Gul etc...
 
I will wait for at least 2 more series to conclude before anything can be said about Arthur.

However, I am 100% sure now that Waqar Younis was the worst coach in Pakistan's entire history.
 
cricwiz said:
PCB & Inzi will have to listen to him after this series. He has already said publicly that all players are on notice (especially the senior pros) so Inzi will have to consider his opinion. We may see lots of players dropped after this series e.g. Hafeez, Malik, Azhar Ali, Gul etc...
Click to expand...

Feel like Azhar Ali will be relieved up captaincy for sure after this series, the biggest ODI total was just the push to get him out. He might stay as a player though.

Think Malik will be gone too, all he really has is a sri lankan series to his name where others did well. Dunno about Gul, he might stick around, he only got one ODI to prove himself.

Think Hafeez will be back as he actually has performed in the majority of recent ODI series, against England in UAE, New Zealand in New Zealand, Sri Lanka etc. As well as test success albeit in the UAE. Especially if he passes the bowling test think he might be given a few more chances. Though not sure it's worth sticking around with someone who gets injured so much now.
 
ads101 said:
Feel like Azhar Ali will be relieved up captaincy for sure after this series, the biggest ODI total was just the push to get him out. He might stay as a player though.

Think Malik will be gone too, all he really has is a sri lankan series to his name where others did well. Dunno about Gul, he might stick around, he only got one ODI to prove himself.

Think Hafeez will be back as he actually has performed in the majority of recent ODI series, against England in UAE, New Zealand in New Zealand, Sri Lanka etc. As well as test success albeit in the UAE. Especially if he passes the bowling test think he might be given a few more chances. Though not sure it's worth sticking around with someone who gets injured so much now.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity is there any current mediocre cricketer you don't back: hafeez, Afridi, gul.
Forever banging on about hit and miss mediocre players for pragmatic reasons related to random wins or the rather amateur view that the replacements are not able to perform in the five odi's vs the said mediocre players who have decades to get to their records.
 
Pete Rose said:
Out of curiosity is there any current mediocre cricketer you don't back: hafeez, Afridi, gul.
Forever banging on about hit and miss mediocre players for pragmatic reasons related to random wins or the rather amateur view that the replacements are not able to perform in the five odi's vs the said mediocre players who have decades to get to their records.
Click to expand...

I don't back gul or Afridi. I don't really back Hafeez without his bowling either.
 
ads101 said:
I don't back gul or Afridi. I don't really back Hafeez without his bowling either.
Click to expand...

Sure you don't use the same words, but would like them to be around all the same. That's ok, we are all fans at the end of the day
 
Pete Rose said:
Sure you don't use the same words, but would like them to be around all the same. That's ok, we are all fans at the end of the day
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are talking about. You're confused. Just go through my posts. In fact find a post where I'm supporting Afridi. I've been pretty anti Afridi I have no idea how you've worked out that I wanted him back. But whatever, you like to tell people they think differently from what they actually say/write. Seems like you know me better than I know me myself.
 
ads101 said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. You're confused. Just go through my posts. In fact find a post where I'm supporting Afridi. I've been pretty anti Afridi I have no idea how you've worked out that I wanted him back. But whatever, you like to tell people they think differently from what they actually say/write. Seems like you know me better than I know me myself.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Not very convincing.
I thought you were a big fan of Hafeez, you know because he has that great record in Asia?
 
Pete Rose said:
Hmm. Not very convincing.
I thought you were a big fan of Hafeez, you know because he has that great record in Asia?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about Hafeez or are you lumping in about Gul, Afridi etc.? I have never said to bring back those people.

I admit I have been a fan of hafeez, but I have stated many times, I preferred him when he was an allrounder. That is one player. And yet you've lumped in the rest too on no basis whatsoever. The fact that you've mentioned Afridi is mind boggling, I've been criticising his inclusion since 2011 I think let alone think about bringing him back.

Hafeez has done well in asia where we play the majority of our games. I don't believe it's necessarily fair to disregard asia entirely when it makes up the majority of our games. Hafeez has performed in New Zealand, Sri Lanka, England in the UAE as a batsman, hence deserved his place in the side. Was poor and England and can be dropped. I just don't believe in the ethos of dropping performing players. When they don't perform, drop them.

It's all relative tbh. The only batsman who performed in non-asian conditions in the past 6 years or so was Misbah. Who was head and shoulders above the other batsmen even if he was a bit slow. I'd take performing in asia over performing in nothing. But as I said I am fine with Hafeez being dropped. In fact I'm surprised he performed with the bat in New Zealand and did that well with the bat in general since he stopped bowling. I didn't think he could survive as a specialist batsman. Even in tests in the UAE where I wanted him dropped a long time ago so that we could promote Azhar and bring in Haris/Babar at 6.
 
Pete Rose said:
Hmm. Not very convincing.
I thought you were a big fan of Hafeez, you know because he has that great record in Asia?
Click to expand...

Before pointing fingers, you do know that you were one of the biggest backers of Malik.

Hafeez is better than him in both bowling and batting. Not a gud against 129-+ kph pace.
 
Hawkeye said:
Before pointing fingers, you do know that you were one of the biggest backers of Malik.

Hafeez is better than him in both bowling and batting. Not a gud against 129-+ kph pace.
Click to expand...

Sure. I never said that I wasn't. And I have been pretty consistent before the odi series started that Malik and all these 'lost boys' from the 90's need to go.
 
Pete Rose said:
Sure. I never said that I wasn't. And I have been pretty consistent before the odi series started that Malik and all these 'lost boys' from the 90's need to go.
Click to expand...

You're free to think whatever you want. But don't make up things about other people or attack people for no reason. You even quoted my post without even reading it properly most likely. I was stating what I think will happen, not what I want to happen. Except the last part where I said I think Hafeez will be back but not sure he should be.
 
Hawkeye said:
We all know our Test performance is a result of long-term team stability, captaincy, previous coach and other factors.

Mickey has just come into the side - his real test is transforming Pakistan's LOI sides, give them an overhaul and bring up the ranking from being ranked #9.

Has he been doing anything for that? The team is open to selections, chop-n-change, unlike the Test team, where the positions are locked.

Not much changes possible in the Test lineup. However, loads of possibilities in ODIs/T20s.

So far, he has recalled:
* Irfan for Hafeez
* Preferring Imad and Nawaz
* Sees Malik as a 'finisher' and #6


These changes are not in sync with how a modern ODI outfit should look like. Not even close.

We have a lineup full of accumulators - Malik, Azhar, Hafeez, Nawaz, Imad.

Only one clean striker - Sharjeel.

Is he going to make any impact? Any transformations in the upcoming tour?
Click to expand...

Well He is right about Malik As a "Finisher". He puts the final nail in Coffin for Pakistan.
 
Hawkeye said:
Forgot to mention - he's been saying 'big words' like above 30s should perform etc.

But can he act on them?
Click to expand...

He already has it seems. I think this will be the biggest difference between Waqar and Arthur. He will follow up his threats to the senior players who don't perform.
 
ads101 said:
You're free to think whatever you want. But don't make up things about other people or attack people for no reason. You even quoted my post without even reading it properly most likely. I was stating what I think will happen, not what I want to happen. Except the last part where I said I think Hafeez will be back but not sure he should be.
Click to expand...

What is likely to happen is your wish list. Kinda like your prediction that shafiq (and Azhar?) will not do well in tests. Only difference is I own my words. You can hide behind the 'what should happen' as you did for quite a while leading up to afridis retirements that 'you feel he can play as a lead legspinner' despite his pants figures against the big boys. You feel me?
 
Pete Rose said:
What is likely to happen is your wish list. Kinda like your prediction that shafiq (and Azhar?) will not do well in tests. Only difference is I own my words. You can hide behind the 'what should happen' as you did for quite a while leading up to afridis retirements that 'you feel he can play as a lead legspinner' despite his pants figures against the big boys. You feel me?
Click to expand...

Erm can you find that post? I've never said that at all, I've supported Azhar and Asad a lot.

I have no idea why you think I said I think he Afridi can play as a lead legspinner. I've brought up his stats against the poor sides many times, in fact I think he is a minnow basher entirely, take out his stats against minnows from his bowling average and it is terrible.

You have provided no evidence at all to back up your argument whatsoever. Just talking complete rubbish. The fact that yet again you are bringing up Afridi shows that you have no clue what you are talking about, when I've criticised Afridi more than most on this forum, I dislike him quite frankly.

What is clear that you seem to want to attack others to make you feel better about yourself. Making up things in order to do so.
 
ads101 said:
Erm can you find that post? I've never said that at all, I've supported Azhar and Asad a lot.

I have no idea why you think I said I think he Afridi can play as a lead legspinner. I've brought up his stats against the poor sides many times, in fact I think he is a minnow basher entirely, take out his stats against minnows from his bowling average and it is terrible.

You have provided no evidence at all to back up your argument whatsoever. Just talking complete rubbish. The fact that yet again you are bringing up Afridi shows that you have no clue what you are talking about, when I've criticised Afridi more than most on this forum, I dislike him quite frankly.

What is clear that you seem to want to attack others to make you feel better about yourself. Making up things in order to do so.
Click to expand...
Couldn't be bothered. You have your record look it up when you 'feel' like it there's a thread there asking about how Azhar and Asad would do. That's alright though some folks can only see what's in front of them. Go on them, why don't you sell me the bit about how you feel gul could do well in the remainig two odi's
 
[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] .. [MENTION=42125]ads101[/MENTION] calm down folks. It's an internet forum, we all have opinions and what others think shouldn't matter much. :najam
 
The coach needs to change the chief selector first or have more influence on selection.
He needs to get rid of 75% of this team....

Not his fault he needs time....maybe give him a year....
 
If he rests Azhar Ali in the next game as the series is over, it will tell alot what he can do in the time to come.
 
Requests selectors to send Irfan in place of Hafeez.

Irfan breaks down in the middle of the match.
 
Hawkeye said:
We all know our Test performance is a result of long-term team stability, captaincy, previous coach and other factors.

Mickey has just come into the side - his real test is transforming Pakistan's LOI sides, give them an overhaul and bring up the ranking from being ranked #9.

Has he been doing anything for that? The team is open to selections, chop-n-change, unlike the Test team, where the positions are locked.

Not much changes possible in the Test lineup. However, loads of possibilities in ODIs/T20s.

So far, he has recalled:
* Irfan for Hafeez
* Preferring Imad and Nawaz
* Sees Malik as a 'finisher' and #6


These changes are not in sync with how a modern ODI outfit should look like. Not even close.

We have a lineup full of accumulators - Malik, Azhar, Hafeez, Nawaz, Imad.

Only one clean striker - Sharjeel.

Is he going to make any impact? Any transformations in the upcoming tour?
Click to expand...

we are number 6 and 3 in odi and t20 now

malik has not done bad at number six and averages at 45+ since mickey bhai

a lot of new faces have been added to the squad

also won us the CT this year

overall i think mickey bhai knows what hes doing
 
Another collection of gems from brother Hawkeye.

The tenure has been superb.

Mickey should be given contract through to 2019 World Cup.
 
His contract should extend to the T20 WC and the 2019 WC, he's an excellent coach and proves that foreign coaches that are qualified are the way forward.
 
Slog said:
It's his first series.

I'd give him time. Let's see if there is change in approach

But it's true no matter how well we do in tests he will have to be judged on ODIs and t20s because that's what he was brought to fix
Click to expand...

:)) Now that we won the CT sloggy has changed his tune
 
Slog said:
My assumption was that our Test form would remain very good
Click to expand...

So basically this:

We're doing well in Tests but not ODI's/T20's so Mickey will only be judged on the limited forms and does not get credit for maintaining the Test form.

We're not doing well in Tests but decent in ODI's/T20's so now Mickey is eligible to be criticised for the Test form.
 
shaz619 said:
So basically this:

We're doing well in Tests but not ODI's/T20's so Mickey will only be judged on the limited forms and does not get credit for maintaining the Test form.

We're not doing well in Tests but decent in ODI's/T20's so now Mickey is eligible to be criticised for the Test form.
Click to expand...

Yes. The Test team was doing brilliantly so the aim was to mantain that and improve on ODIs and T20s

But he and Sarfaraz should get a lot of plaudits (and is getting them) for the ODI turnaround
 
Slog said:
Yes. The Test team was doing brilliantly so the aim was to mantain that and improve on ODIs and T20s

But he and Sarfaraz should get a lot of plaudits (and is getting them) for the ODI turnaround
Click to expand...

We need to have a couple of series under our belt before we can talk about an ODI turnaround. Maybe take the India route and play a bunch of ODI series at home against teams like Bangladesh, New Zealand and Sri Lanka to get some wins.
 
shaz619 said:
So basically this:

We're doing well in Tests but not ODI's/T20's so Mickey will only be judged on the limited forms and does not get credit for maintaining the Test form.

We're not doing well in Tests but decent in ODI's/T20's so now Mickey is eligible to be criticised for the Test form.
Click to expand...

Haha nailed it !

Waqar was lucky he bailed before the tough tours of England, New Zealand and Australia where he'd have been exposed after years of coasting on comfort zone Test cricket with Misbah's tried and tested formula in UAE.

If Arthur was coaching us for all those UAE series he'd also have a similarly good Test record. Instead he received a baptism of fire with three of the hardest tours for Asian teams, inevitably struggling on green lawns in NZ and in Australia which has always been a graveyard for us, and Waqar fans sniping about his record.
 
Markhor said:
Haha nailed it !

Waqar was lucky he bailed before the tough tours of England, New Zealand and Australia where he'd have been exposed after years of coasting on comfort zone Test cricket with Misbah's tried and tested formula in UAE.

If Arthur was coaching us for all those UAE series he'd also have a similarly good Test record. Instead he received a baptism of fire with three of the hardest tours for Asian teams, inevitably struggling on green lawns in NZ and in Australia which has always been a graveyard for us, and Waqar fans sniping about his record.
Click to expand...

Waqar contributed to our drawn series in England and Mickey credited him as well and all the good work he did with our Test team, on the other hand Mickey has delivered in monumental fashion by winning an ICC Trophy which he couldn't even win after 4 or 5 attempts with South Africa ! the jury is still out when it comes to our Test team and we need to give him time, but am backing him to come good. Be it Mickey or Waqar I don't like it when people overly criticise or praise, both have done well in their own ways
 
Mickey has done a good job in LO so far. Reduce the average age of the team and also improved certain players. Furthermore no matter who is playing they know there role.

In tests he started well with the England series, but results have been mixed since then. Now Misbah has gone, he'll be allowed to build his own test side. I think he will need 12-18 months to rebuild the test side. Best time to judge him in tests is after that period.

So far he's done a good job as coach. I hope PCB keep him till 2019 WC.
 
If he can get rid of Malik and Hafeez from XI in OD , pakistan should make semis of WC at least.
 
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