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"Misbah is Pakistan's best Test captain and a wonderful Test batsman" : Imran Khan

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Imran Khan speaking on TV

"When I was 19, in England, I saw Dennis Lillee bowl the first time on Television. When I saw him bowling, I said I wanted to be like him. I want to be a fast bowler."

"My coach kept on asking me to be a medium bowler but I wanted to be a fast bowler."

"My bowling action was not suitable to be a fast bowler. I remodeled my action to be a fast bowler, which no one has ever done."

"My action was completely different when I was 18 as compared to when I reached my peak."

"You can be what you dream to be. Everyone said that I cannot be a fast bowler, even my club mates, but I always kept on trying and trying."

"Sometimes you see a dead-end and it is very difficult to overcome it. I motivated myself and kept my self belief."

"No one is born with self belief, you get it by performance."

"After playing a cricket match, I wouldn't sleep at night until I analysed what mistakes I made today."

"I never read newspapers after a bad performance. A journalist who hasn't played club cricket cannot teach and tell me what to do, an International cricketer. I myself have to analyse where I should improve."

"When you lose a game, everyone comes in with free advice. I even tell my party members not to give free advice!"

"I ignored criticism and paid heed to criticism only from certain players. Richie Benaud, Ian Chappell, Geoffrey Boycott (only batting) were some whose columns I gave attention to."

"Some people criticized because they were jealous and some people did because they didn't had proper understanding. I usually ignored their criticism"

"If you don't have the ability to differentiate between good criticism and poor one, you will get easily demoralized."

"I was about to turn 24 when I toured Australia. I enjoyed the most playing in Australia. The wickets had bounce and if you have pace, you can pick up wickets."

"I enjoyed batting in Australia as the bounce made it easier to play shots."

"The 1976 tour of Australia and then to West Indies made me pick my game and made me a better player. Australia was the best team then and West Indies were about to become the best ever in the history of cricket."

"I never wanted to be a captain. I was elected as a captain in Oxford in my 2nd year, but I never wanted to be one."

"Being a captain made my performances better and I got selected in the Pakistan team based on my performances at Oxford."

"I never wanted to captain Pakistan. I was at my peak when players revolted against the captain. Both parties (revolting players and the current captain) decided on playing only under me. Hence, I became captain."

"There are two types of captains, the one who wants to be in the power, and the other who wants to achieve goals"

"The man who wants to be the captain for status or personal benefits usually compromises"

"The captain who actually wants to be a captain for achieving the goals usually resigns if he fails in achieving them so."

"I'm the only captain who has resigned two times in my career".

"I wasn't allowed to pick the team that I wanted myself, hence I resigned during my captaincy tenure"

"Once I broke my leg and when I came back after two years or so, I played as a regular player, not as a captain"

"My performance improved with the burden of captaincy because there was a lot of pressure on me"

"I faced very few injuries in my career compared to today's bowlers"

"I usually used to bowl 30+ overs in a single day, today's bowlers can't even stay on field for more than 20 overs"

"When I faced a injury, it was against India and it was during the peak of my career."

"India had a lot of great players such as Gavaskar and Amarnath during that series"

"I took forty wickets in that series and I faced a stress fracture"

"I used to bowl almost the whole day"

"If I knew that I had a stress fracture, I would have rested for two or three months and the fracture would have gone away".

"Three years were wasted during my peak because of that stress fracture"

"The biggest quality of the captaincy should be to lead from the front, no matter what"

"The reason my batting improved was because when we toured overseas, most of our batsmen would struggle and I used to come at one down"

"I used to bat at number seven but once I got the captaincy, I realized that none of our batsmen could do well overseas hence I promoted myself up the order"

"I had the technique to bat at one down, also I had to take the responsibility although I didn't fancy batting up the order so you could say I was kind of forced to do it"

"The technique that players develop in the sub-continent isn't good enough to play the moving or seaming ball"

"Domestic Cricket has been mediocre since ages, I left playing Domestic Cricket since the standard dropped subsequently"

"The more competition you have, the more talent will arise. If the competition isn't going to be there then don't expect your talent to come above"

"If there are going to be like more than twenty teams with all the talent spread, what kind of competition do you expect?"

"Australia has six teams, New Zealand has six teams, South Africa has six teams"

"England has introduced two new leagues now because there are a lot of overseas cricketers from different countries who play in the English leagues"

"You can take my word that no country ever has had more talent than Pakistan, but what matters is how do you utilize the talent?"

"Misbah is Pakistan's best Test captain & a wonderful Test batsman. It's sad that he was given a proper chance so late"

"In countries like Australia, a player retires by the age of 34. Look at Michael Clarke, he has now retired and he is only 34"

"Mohammad Irfan is a another example, he is the tallest bowler in the World and bowls at 140+ KPH, If Mohammad Irfan was playing under me, I could have won the match with him single-handedly"

"Irfan hasn't played a lot of Cricket so he doesn't know how to take the wickets, the second thing is that the Captain doesn't know how to use him"

"A bowler finishes by the age of 32, how come Mohammad Irfan started playing Cricket that age?"

"We don't have a Domestic Cricket structure, it's all run by in a Mafia-style manner"

"Everywhere there is a Mafia, in politics, in Elections Committee, in Cricket and everywhere else. It won't let the change come"

"The way they win the elections by rigging to make the money, same way there is a Mafia in Departmental Cricket which won't let the change come"

"Whenever a new chairman used to be appointed, I used to ask for a change in the system but it was really difficult for the chairmen to stand up against the Mafia"

"I used to have scouts who used to give me information, I asked a few of them to find me some good batsmen and one of the names given to me was Inzamam-ul-Haq, I called him to the nets and saw his batting, and I got him into the team"

"I saw Waqar Younis on Television in a random one-day match and I called him and got him into the team".
 
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Brilliant stuff from Imran - love to hear him speak.
 
Wow, again and again, every single word he says, worth listening and lot to learn for cricket selectors and administrators. What a man, what a leader.
 
"Mohammad Irfan is a another example, he is the tallest bowler in the World and bowls at 140+ KPH, If Mohammad Irfan was playing under me, I could have won the match with him single-handedly"

Bold words by the GOAT, but i dont doubt him. He was a masterful tactician, and knew exactly how to use fast bowlers to bring out the best from them.

Also good to hear him praising Misbah as the greatest Test Captain of Pakistan.

Imran is the best when it comes to all things cricket, he should seriously consider leaving politics and devoting his time to Pak cricket. With him at the fore front we could accomplish an immense amount.
 
There is so much to learn from successful people and so much inspiration to take from there words if one takes the time to sit back and reflect. Even in the written text of this discussion, you'll never hear these words out of a failure. Yet some people not going to mention names are just going to get hung up on the fact that he seems to lack modesty in this talk. When you've put in the miles, you have a right to talk about it. It's all about having the right mindsets and the way you look at things. Brilliant stuff as usual from the player. Top 5 alpha men alive.
 
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People go on about that late 1990s team and say the Pakistan team that entered the 1999 World Cup was our best ever. But what did they ultimately achieve ? Nothing.

The team of the 1980s and early 1990s led by Imran and Javed was the best Pakistan side of all time. Look at the records. A draw away to a West Indies team nobody in that era laid a glove on. A victory away to England in 1987. The World Cup win in 1992.

Imran was front and centre of that success, leading the team through sheer force of will and personality, galvanising the players around him. He also had around him smart players with good tactical knowledge in the team like Javed Miandad and Saleem Malik.
 
Misbah may not be THE best (Imran is), but certainly is up there with the best. Masterful tactician and captain, specially in Test matches. Few would know the art of playing and trapping the opposition over 5 full days.

Lots of nostalgia associated with Imran Khan and previous cricketers, so people undderrate Misbah. 20 years down the line, you'd be telling your kids about King. :D

Good interview by IK. Waiting for the anti IK/Misbah brigade to arrive, because this thread can get lengthy. :jf
 
You can have 100s of differences with his political party or with his politics but this man was born with big dreams and he make them reality most of the time.

Here are some examples where he proved others wrong on and off the cricket field:

You can't be a cricketer.

You can't bowl fast.

Fast bowlers can't be successful captains.

Pakistan is not going to win the WC in 1992 the way they are losing matches after matches in the beginning.

You can't open a cancer hospital in Pakistan and provide free cancer treatment to poors.
(he launched it and it's running from 20 years and now another hospital is ready and going to start next month)

You can't be successful in politics it's not your cup of tea and you don't have a launching pad to begin.
(Now his party PTI is running the government in one province of Pakistan and it exist everywhere in Pakistan while his own popularity as a politician is second to none in Pakistan)

Other achievements:

Served as chancellor of a Bradform university, Opened NUML university in Pakistan, Launched IK Foundation and there are many other things to his credit.

Some people are born to be successful :ik
 
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Great interview.

Although I don't agree with this bit.

"If there are going to be like more than twenty teams with all the talent spread, what kind of competition do you expect?"

"Australia has six teams, New Zealand has six teams, South Africa has six teams" - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-so-late-quot-Imran-Khan#sthash.ji20RMtF.dpuf


Australia has a population of 22 million, New Zealand 4 million and South Africa 50 million. A country the size of Pakistan (the population will be 200 million soon) where 35% of the population are aged 15 or under (and cricket is the main sport) needs a lot of first class teams.

If, as IK says, Pakistan has the most cricketing talent in the world then there should not be any fear of it being spread across too many teams.
 
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Great interview.

Although I don't agree with this bit.




Australia has a population of 22 million, New Zealand 4 million and South Africa 50 million. A country the size of Pakistan (the population will be 200 million soon) where 35% of the population are aged 15 or under (and cricket is the main sport) needs a lot of first class teams.

If, as IK says, Pakistan has the most cricketing talent in the world then there should not be any fear of it being spread across too many teams.

But do you think Pakistan, India, Bangladesh or any other country with huge population have enough talent to make 10-15 strong FC teams? probably No so why not decrease the number of teams so that you can have enough talent in every team and the level of competition become high instead of 3/4 good players and 7/8 average or below average players in every team. This thing sometimes also help some average players by boosting their FC stats against weaker bowlers/batsman.

Even 6 teams mean around 90-100 FC players. If we have 15-16 players in each squad.
 
You can have 100s of differences with his political party or with his politics but this man was born with big dreams and he make them reality most of the time.

Here are some examples where he proved others wrong on and off the cricket field:

You can't be a cricketer.

You can't bowl fast.

Fast bowlers can't be successful captains.

Pakistan is not going to win the WC in 1992 the way they are losing matches after matches in the beginning.

You can't open a cancer hospital in Pakistan and provide free cancer treatment to poors.
(he launched it and it's running from 20 years and now another hospital is ready and going to start next month)

You can't be successful in politics it's not your cup of tea and you don't have a launching pad to begin.
(Now his party PTI is running the government in one province of Pakistan and it exist everywhere in Pakistan while his own popularity as a politician is second to none in Pakistan)

Other achievements:

Served as chancellor of a Bradform university, Opened NUML university in Pakistan, Launched IK Foundation and there are many other things to his credit.

Some people are born to be successful :ik

Very true.
 
Challenge here is to remain an IK loyalist and still downplay IK terming Misbah as the best.

Many just avoiding it. :srini
 
^ Shoaib Ahhtar several times mentioned Mohammad Zahid better and quicker than him :yk
 
^ Shoaib Ahhtar several times mentioned Mohammad Zahid better and quicker than him :yk

This challenge is much tougher. Zahid may have been faster, I doubt it though, but not better.

He's our most successful Test captain, but not the best, because a win in India or England is not under his belt. But that's because we didn't play there yet. He didn't get to tour overseas with his team at the peak, not his fault. But then again, none of our teams have been as strong and dominant at home as his team is.

If he can win it against England in England, strong argument can be made for him as being the best.
 
This challenge is much tougher. Zahid may have been faster, I doubt it though, but not better.

He's our most successful Test captain, but not the best, because a win in India or England is not under his belt. But that's because we didn't play there yet. He didn't get to tour overseas with his team at the peak, not his fault. But then again, none of our teams have been as strong and dominant at home as his team is.

If he can win it against England in England, strong argument can be made for him as being the best.

I agree it's not Misbah fault that he didn't played against them and yes he is the most successful but not the best as you said.

btw about your argument being strong and dominant at home. Under Imran Pakistan never lost a series at home and never lost a test against India home or away (yes none in 15 Test matches and won series both home and away against india). Pakistan had a W/L ratio of 4.5 at home under Imran and lost only 2 out of 22 Test matches. He was man of the series in majority of our important series leading from front.
 
Only person worth listening to in Pakistan and still feel proud, have admiration for his principal .
 
"Mohammad Irfan is a another example, he is the tallest bowler in the World and bowls at 140+ KPH, If Mohammad Irfan was playing under me, I could have won the match with him single-handedly"

Bold words by the GOAT, but i dont doubt him. He was a masterful tactician, and knew exactly how to use fast bowlers to bring out the best from them.

Also good to hear him praising Misbah as the greatest Test Captain of Pakistan.

Imran is the best when it comes to all things cricket, he should seriously consider leaving politics and devoting his time to Pak cricket. With him at the fore front we could accomplish an immense amount.

IK knew how to build an aura around a player. I remember an interview from abdul qadir where IK advised him to grow a beard and a mustache to create an aura of a mystery spin bowler from the east . Sports is about skills but its also about mind games . I don't doubt it for a minute when IK says that he can win games with a particular bowler.
 
Great interview.

Although I don't agree with this bit.




Australia has a population of 22 million, New Zealand 4 million and South Africa 50 million. A country the size of Pakistan (the population will be 200 million soon) where 35% of the population are aged 15 or under (and cricket is the main sport) needs a lot of first class teams.

If, as IK says, Pakistan has the most cricketing talent in the world then there should not be any fear of it being spread across too many teams.

if population was the only parameter then why india can't produce a fast bowler and why china can't qualify for football world cup while croatia of 4m always qualify
 
The GOAT from the subcon with a fantastic interview. If only he could be our head coach. Could easily end up as the Ferguson of cricket, creating a historic dynasty and knocking Australia off their perch. :imran

Challenge here is to remain an IK loyalist and still downplay IK terming Misbah as the best.

Many just avoiding it. :srini

No cognitive dissonance here if your brain can compute things properly. Imran Khan is being humble and showering praise on a guy who has rarely received it from the average Pakistani. Just like Warne saying that Yasir Shah has the best legg-spinner he's ever seen. Must not have watched himself bowl. :amla
 
Inspirational words, although I'm glad him advocating for YK in the WC QF wasn't mentioned in the OP quotes.
 
Most of us have no access to the team dressing room which I think is very important in judging quality and caliber of a player.

A player could be a mental midget yet have great physical abilities - a player could be of limited talent yet have the heart of a warrior; such things do happen in life.

When Imran talks, I listen not because he has great statistics but because he has great statistics against great players. Here is a guy in our history who never played merely for numbers or statistics alone, who used to skip easy series and play against the best.

Man of the series performances against all the great teams and players of his era.

His political image should never change the image of Imran the cricketer - in my view, by far the best captain that we have produced.
 
Inspirational words, although I'm glad him advocating for YK in the WC QF wasn't mentioned in the OP quotes.

Hahahaha this!!

Remember him tweeting about the inclusion of Yasir Shah and YK in the WC quarter final before the match.

And then repeating his tweet later when Yasir and Younis Khan won us the 3rd Test Match vs Srilanka in August.

Imran Bhai didn't take it nicely that his tips were ignored by Misbah.

Khan Sahab Test and ODI mai thora difference agaya hai ab :yk2
 
Hahahaha this!!

Remember him tweeting about the inclusion of Yasir Shah and YK in the WC quarter final before the match.

And then repeating his tweet later when Yasir and Younis Khan won us the 3rd Test Match vs Srilanka in August.

Imran Bhai didn't take it nicely that his tips were ignored by Misbah.

Khan Sahab Test and ODI mai thora difference agaya hai ab :yk2

I don't about whether he tweeted that at the time but he did mention it in this interview about YK and Yasir being in the team for the QF.

Even GOATs make mistakes. :ik
 
His comments about how he improved himself are amazing.

Great answers. Don't agree withs some of them but you can see what a great thinker of the game he is.
 
What don't you agree with ?

"You can take my word that no country ever has had more talent than Pakistan, but what matters is how do you utilize the talent?"

Usual Imran.

"Misbah is Pakistan's best Test captain & a wonderful Test batsman. It's sad that he was given a proper chance so late"

He wasn't the best Pak captain but probably a kind comment.

"Mohammad Irfan is a another example, he is the tallest bowler in the World and bowls at 140+ KPH, If Mohammad Irfan was playing under me, I could have won the match with him single-handedly"

A slight touch of chest thumping. If a bowler gets tired post first spell, no one in the world can do anything about it. Even if he makes the bowler improve in first spell. Winning with Irfan single handedly is all wild speculation. All one needs to do is look at Sami whom Imran rated as someone who can match Malcolm and Imran helped Sami with his seam position and all too. But nothing came about it. Sami got carted even more. Why? Cos Sami was not good enough to make it work.

Sometimes in life, we under-rate certain things and over-rate certain things (happens in the business world too when companies make great profits). Waqar and Wasim were so good as potential which is an aspect that gets under-rated when discussing Imran Khan.

I am not taking anything away from his captaincy or leadership but sometimes you ahve to dig deep and see.

For example, Dhoni was invincible as captain till 2011 in every freaking format. Then what happened next was something to see. He was a poor test captain not for his results but how he managed his resources and his tactics (after ATGs and Zaheer Khan left).

Same way, now Kohli (who has an amazing attitude for tests) is hailed by some for every move but in reality, its Ashwin (and Jaddu and Mishra to a lesser extent) who are saving his tactical screw ups. Pujara saved it in SL. I can write paras explaining the exact situations (wickets, runs scored) to explain where the momentum shifted. These things get under-rated in the large scheme of things and when you start losing, everyone goes overboard by piling everything on.

This is not to say Imran would lose with a bad team. He would have fought even with a crappy team (cos he was a great leader and understood what the game demands) but all this slight bravado about turning anyone into world class is all false.

---

Otherwise wonderful comments. I can see why he is soo successful. This is how pacers and leaders should be and I wish we had a pace bowler who could think like this.
 
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[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]

1. That's subjective because other countries have always had a much better domestic system than Pakistan, as Imran said, even in his playing days the system was crap and he didn't even play it because he was afraid it might lower his own standard - how do you expect talent to flourish and be unearthed in such an environment ? The likes if Waqar, Wasim and Inzi were all plucked from obscurity.

I think you maybe confusing talent with end product, for example everyone says that Wasim Akram had more talent than Glenn McGrath but in the end McGrath was the better bowler because Wasim didn't maximise his potential that he could have achieved.

2. I'm not going to blindly defend every IK comment simply because I think he's the GOAT. My interpretation of the Irfan comment was he would have utilised hin much more effectively than Misbah could and hence perhaps he may have picked up 3-4 wickets with Imran as his captain rather than 1-2 wickets under Misbah in his opening spell in ODIs.

Regarding the Sami comment, I think it's pertinent to know that Imran hasn't really followed and watched Cricket regularly as he used to when in his playing days since retirement as he's always been engrossed with SK and politics. To me when I first read the comment it was also laughable, but when you think about it, perhaps he saw Sami in a one off spell moving the ball at 150kph, anyone would be impressed with such ability and ultimately it's hard to extrapolate a whole career's output from one single performance reading, even if you are a great player.

I agree that if someone doesn't have the ability or talent in the first place, then attempting to mould him into world class material is nigh on impossible unless he works like a maniac and even then it isn't necessarily guaranteed.

I found his comments about not giving up on your goals and working hard to achieve them (in a general, not cricketing sense) the best out of his comments.
 
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]

1. That's subjective because other countries have always had a much better domestic system than Pakistan, as Imran said, even in his playing days the system was crap and he didn't even play it because he was afraid it might lower his own standard - how do you expect talent to flourish and be unearthed in such an environment ? The likes if Waqar, Wasim and Inzi were all plucked from obscurity.

I think you maybe confusing talent with end product, for example everyone says that Wasim Akram had more talent than Glenn McGrath but in the end McGrath was the better bowler because Wasim didn't maximise his potential that he could have achieved.

2. I'm not going to blindly defend every IK comment simply because I think he's the GOAT. My interpretation of the Irfan comment was he would have utilised hin much more effectively than Misbah could and hence perhaps he may have picked up 3-4 wickets with Imran as his captain rather than 1-2 wickets under Misbah in his opening spell in ODIs.

Regarding the Sami comment, I think it's pertinent to know that Imran hasn't really followed and watched Cricket regularly as he used to when in his playing days since retirement as he's always been engrossed with SK and politics. To me when I first read the comment it was also laughable, but when you think about it, perhaps he saw Sami in a one off spell moving the ball at 150kph, anyone would be impressed with such ability and ultimately it's hard to extrapolate a whole career's output from one single performance reading, even if you are a great player.

I agree that if someone doesn't have the ability or talent in the first place, then attempting to mould him into world class material is nigh on impossible unless he works like a maniac and even then it isn't necessarily guaranteed.

I found his comments about not giving up on your goals and working hard to achieve them (in a general, not cricketing sense) the best out of his comments.

Not confusing talent with end product bro.

The problem is that talent is often a misinterpreted word.

Pound for pound, SL has the best talent in the world if you compare population to quality cricketers ratio. They already produced 1 ATG bowler, 1 ATG batsman..several good bats, 1 WC winner. But you don't see many calling SL as talented. Why? Cos they don't give that much importance to talent and hype it up.

SA is a small nation and was out of cricket for 20 years but when they came back, they had a team that could beat the best. Be at least in Top 3. SA when they were banned, destroyed Aus 4-0 in their home ground and left.

Is that not talent?

Reality is Pakistan historically produced the most exciting bowlers.

Bad system + exciting bowlers + extraodirinary importance for talent in media, pundits = Perception

Make no mistake, Pakistan is INDEED talented. Produces amazing raw cricketers out of nowhere takes talent (latest being Amir) but that doesn't make it the most talented of the lot. For some reason, professional setups get penalized more for being....well professional.

Aus has been historically very talented.
WI in its peak was so talented that its A, B and C team could do well in international cricket.
SA is talented despite losing 20 years.
SL is very talented for the small nation it is.

So how do you call anyone most talented? Very very subjective unless you do a comprehensive test of all domestic players historically. Even then its hard.

Also guys like Afridi (who was pretty good if he applied himself) made a career out of the world talent by simply showing up. If talent wasn't given such importance, guys like Afridi would have done better. Now the same is happening to Umar Akmal and Shehzad who think they are God's gift to Pakistan. Why? Cos talent hype (one of the reasons). Earlier Imran Nazir got destroyed. Then Nasir Jamshed. Many more will follow until the talent hype stops.

Take India's example. Rohit Sharma gets called talented. Reality is he has a great attacking game but his defense is very weak. Won't do well in tough pitches regardless of format (but in today's era, he fits in great cos conditions matches his strength).

The biggest problem with the word talent is that it takes something to a subjective level where it can't be disputed. That results in judging things without any objective yardsticks.
 
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It's a good interview. I like the part about his early days. A little boasting here or there in the interview, but I will allow it, with his pedigree.
 
Not confusing talent with end product bro.

The problem is that talent is often a misinterpreted word.

Pound for pound, SL has the best talent in the world if you compare population to quality cricketers ratio. They already produced 1 ATG bowler, 1 ATG batsman..several good bats, 1 WC winner. But you don't see many calling SL as talented. Why? Cos they don't give that much importance to talent and hype it up.

SA is a small nation and was out of cricket for 20 years but when they came back, they had a team that could beat the best. Be at least in Top 3. SA when they were banned, destroyed Aus 4-0 in their home ground and left.

Is that not talent?

Reality is Pakistan historically produced the most excitingbowlers.

Bad system + exciting bowlers + extraodirinary importance for talent in media, pundits = Perception

Make no mistake, Pakistan is INDEED talented. Produces amazing raw cricketers out of nowhere takes talent (latest being Amir) but that doesn't make it the most talented of the lot. For some reason, professional setups get penalized more for being....well professional.

Aus has been historically very talented.
WI in its peak was so talented that its A, B and C team could do well in international cricket.
SA is talented despite losing 20 years.
SL is very talented for the small nation it is.

So how do you call anyone most talented? Very very subjective unless you do a comprehensive test of all domestic players historically. Even then its hard.

Also guys like Afridi (who was pretty good if he applied himself) made a career out of the world talent by simply showing up. If talent wasn't given such importance, guys like Afridi would have done better. Now the same is happening to Umar Akmal and Shehzad who think they are God's gift to Pakistan. Why? Cos talent hype (one of the reasons). Earlier Imran Nazir got destroyed. Then Nasir Jamshed. Many more will follow until the talent hype stops.

Take India's example. Rohit Sharma gets called talented. Reality is he has a great attacking game but his defense is very weak. Won't do well in tough pitches regardless of format (but in today's era, he fits in great cos conditions matches his strength).

The biggest problem with the word talent is that it takes something to a subjective level where it can't be disputed. That results in judging things without any objective yardsticks.

Our interpretations of talent are different; for me talent is the natural raw ability someone has, for example Amir was able to bowl 145 kph at age 17 and end product is the amalgamation of talent, technique, temperament, up bringing, system and coaching (I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing) - you're saying talent = end product, whereas for me talent is just one component of the formula, just one ingredient of the recipe, it maybe a significant factor but it alone won't make you successful, you need to put in the hard yards, you need a competitive system a la SL's school cricket or SA's domestic FC etc., as well to become a top quality player.

As I mentioned in my previous post and you've mentioned in the quoted post, I don't think many people will agree on a singular definition of talent and therefore it isn't worth discussing what is and what isn't any further IMO.

I think Imran himself is the epitome of someone who initially had limited talent (he had a wicked inswinger as his natural stock delivery but worked feverishly amongst other factors and became the GOAT) and that is who Pakistanis should aspire to become through hard work and not rest on their laurels like the majority of the 90's onwards cricketers.
 
Our interpretations of talent are different; for me talent is the natural raw ability someone has, for example Amir was able to bowl 145 kph at age 17 and end product is the amalgamation of talent, technique, temperament, up bringing, system and coaching (I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing) - you're saying talent = end product, whereas for me talent is just one component of the formula, just one ingredient of the recipe, it maybe a significant factor but it alone won't make you successful, you need to put in the hard yards, you need a competitive system a la SL's school cricket or SA's domestic FC etc., as well to become a top quality player.

As I mentioned in my previous post and you've mentioned in the quoted post, I don't think many people will agree on a singular definition of talent and therefore it isn't worth discussing what is and what isn't any further IMO.

I think Imran himself is the epitome of someone who initially had limited talent (he had a wicked inswinger as his natural stock delivery but worked feverishly amongst other factors and became the GOAT) and that is who Pakistanis should aspire to become through hard work and not rest on their laurels like the majority of the 90's onwards cricketers.

Talent is inborn or natural ability - the ability that shines through without much training, coaching or experience. Some people have natural ability to do certain things, and this may vary from person to person. It represents potential rather than achievement. Talent is not end product though talent may lead to achievement under suitable conditions.
 
such a shame that he couldnt bowl for 3 years as a players as one can only wonder that his great all-round record would have been even better then what he already greatly produced.
 
Some great quotes by the legend.

When it comes to cricket I will always listen to him.
 
I just realized no mention of statement related to Amir in OP? btw IK is supporting Amir comeback
 
Talent is inborn or natural ability - the ability that shines through without much training, coaching or experience. Some people have natural ability to do certain things, and this may vary from person to person. It represents potential rather than achievement. Talent is not end product though talent may lead to achievement under suitable conditions.

Which is what I posted and talent has to go hand in hand with the other ingredients such as coaching, hard work, discipline etc. to bear fruition of a successful end product.
 
Some great quotes by the legend.

When it comes to cricket I will always listen to him.

This is the biggest difference between Imran and Miandad. Miandad was a better tactician on field but a big failure when it comes to managing players, leadership or when it comes to communication and sharing ideas.
 
I grew up watching the legend Imran Khan.. if it was my choice. I would happilly give him chairmanship of PCB with free reigns to do whatever he sees fit for Pakistan Cricket
 
This is the biggest difference between Imran and Miandad. Miandad was a better tactician on field but a big failure when it comes to managing players, leadership or when it comes to communication and sharing ideas.
People managment and people skills is a one of the best skill set to have. Its unfortunate it cannot be tought in a class
 
This is the biggest difference between Imran and Miandad. Miandad was a better tactician on field but a big failure when it comes to managing players, leadership or when it comes to communication and sharing ideas.

Totally agree. Even now when retired Miandad says some cringeworthy stuff.
 
People go on about that late 1990s team and say the Pakistan team that entered the 1999 World Cup was our best ever. But what did they ultimately achieve ? Nothing.

The team of the 1980s and early 1990s led by Imran and Javed was the best Pakistan side of all time. Look at the records. A draw away to a West Indies team nobody in that era laid a glove on. A victory away to England in 1987. The World Cup win in 1992.

Imran was front and centre of that success, leading the team through sheer force of will and personality, galvanising the players around him. He also had around him smart players with good tactical knowledge in the team like Javed Miandad and Saleem Malik.

Absolutely. I didn't even follow cricket as a youngster until I saw Imran's team on the tv one day. I feel priveleged to have watched a team led by IK, Pakistan has never had a leader of his calibre before or after. Anyone who disagrees with that never saw him lead.
 
Our interpretations of talent are different; for me talent is the natural raw ability someone has, for example Amir was able to bowl 145 kph at age 17 and end product is the amalgamation of talent, technique, temperament, up bringing, system and coaching (I'm sure there's stuff I'm missing) - you're saying talent = end product, whereas for me talent is just one component of the formula, just one ingredient of the recipe, it maybe a significant factor but it alone won't make you successful, you need to put in the hard yards, you need a competitive system a la SL's school cricket or SA's domestic FC etc., as well to become a top quality player.

As I mentioned in my previous post and you've mentioned in the quoted post, I don't think many people will agree on a singular definition of talent and therefore it isn't worth discussing what is and what isn't any further IMO.

I think Imran himself is the epitome of someone who initially had limited talent (he had a wicked inswinger as his natural stock delivery but worked feverishly amongst other factors and became the GOAT) and that is who Pakistanis should aspire to become through hard work and not rest on their laurels like the majority of the 90's onwards cricketers.

No I agree with your and Indian Willow's definition of talent.

But even then...here's an example:

When SA came back in 1992, Donald at 25 was spitting fire. Was he naturally talented or not? Or was it because of the system he became that good?

If he was in Pak setup, would he have come up the ranks or not?

Answer is we don't know.

If McGrath (who is not as talented as Akram nor as exciting) was pretty damn talented to bowl on the same spot like Ambrose and retire from his career being invincible.

If he was in Pak setup, would he have come up the ranks or not?

Answer is we don't know.

Same way....so many examples.

Do you see my point?

Pakistan is talented no doubt. But since they don't have a solid system in place, we CANNOT assume that talents from other countries wouldn't have come up through the ranks? They may or may not. Its speculative territory.

Is Pakistan's pacers supremely talented? Yes. Can be judged objectively.
Is Pakistan's pacers supremely exciting? Yes. Can be judged objectively.
Is Pakistan THE MOST TALENTED of the lot? Dunno. Answer unknown. We don't know. Speculative territory.

Which is why I said professional boards get penalized for being...well...professional.

There is world of difference between calling a nation supremely talented and calling them MOST TALENTED of them all.

One can be judged while other is unknown.

Believing in a nation being most talented of them all leads to other sets of problems like future generations not analyzing the problems as they arise.
 
No I agree with your and Indian Willow's definition of talent.

But even then...here's an example:

When SA came back in 1992, Donald at 25 was spitting fire. Was he naturally talented or not? Or was it because of the system he became that good?

If he was in Pak setup, would he have come up the ranks or not?

Answer is we don't know.

If McGrath (who is not as talented as Akram nor as exciting) was pretty damn talented to bowl on the same spot like Ambrose and retire from his career being invincible.

If he was in Pak setup, would he have come up the ranks or not?

Answer is we don't know.

Same way....so many examples.

Do you see my point?

Pakistan is talented no doubt. But since they don't have a solid system in place, we CANNOT assume that talents from other countries wouldn't have come up through the ranks? They may or may not. Its speculative territory.

Is Pakistan's pacers supremely talented? Yes. Can be judged objectively.
Is Pakistan's pacers supremely exciting? Yes. Can be judged objectively.
Is Pakistan THE MOST TALENTED of the lot? Dunno. Answer unknown. We don't know. Speculative territory.

Which is why I said professional boards get penalized for being...well...professional.

There is world of difference between calling a nation supremely talented and calling them MOST TALENTED of them all.

One can be judged while other is unknown.

Believing in a nation being most talented of them all leads to other sets of problems like future generations not analyzing the problems as they arise.

Agreed.

Irrelevant point I'm going to add - If Imran had Waqar's SR in Tests, I would be proclaiming him as the GOAT fast bowler as well as the GOAT cricketer.
 
The man was right. :najam

Not the best? Definitely the second best.
 
Still disagree.. Look at Pak fans reaction after one win overseas and IK had plenty of those against much tougher opponents.


But credit to Misbah for this win. his captaincy,selection were spot on. His first innings knock set the platform nicely for Pakistan to dominate in this game.
 
If we win this series then for me he is the best Test Captain for Pakistan. :heart:
 
again comparisons should not be made until Misbah pulls off a series win here and gives tough fight against Australia. I still believe IK was the best captain by a big margin.
 
If we win this series then for me he is the best Test Captain for Pakistan. :heart:
you are not aware of IK's overseas domination. India,Eng,WI tours under IK would be dream of Misbah as well.
 
again comparisons should not be made until Misbah pulls off a series win here and gives tough fight against Australia. I still believe IK was the best captain by a big margin.

First Pakistani captain to beat India in India, England in England and giving tough time to great windies as well. Nehru Cup, 92 WC and other thing as well so the comparison need a bit more from Misbah but still Misbah did great as captain no doubt
 
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First Pakistani captain to beat India in India, England in England and giving tough time to great windies as well. Nehru Cup, 92 WC and other thing as well so the comparison need a bit more from Misbah but still Misbah did great as captain no doubt

He also had a great side going for him..Miandad is a statistically better captain than Imran.. Miandad has won the same number of tests in lesser games
 
He also had a great side going for him..Miandad is a statistically better captain than Imran.. Miandad has won the same number of tests in lesser games

The only issue is when you look deep into those stats instead of just numbers. Imran won away series against India and England. Didn't lose a single Test match against India home or away. Didn't lose a single series against Windies home or away and also won a Test against them in their home and a 3-0 whitewash against Australia. Miandad most victories are against Lanka and NZ which also includes those matches when Imran rested because of injury or other reason so Miandad captained the team.
 
The only issue is when you look deep into those stats instead of just numbers. Imran won away series against India and England. Didn't lose a single Test match against India home or away. Didn't lose a single series against Windies home or away and also won a Test against them in their home and a 3-0 whitewash against Australia. Miandad most victories are against Lanka and NZ which also includes those matches when Imran rested because of injury or other reason so Miandad captained the team.

Didn't Imran Khan also lose a test match against Srilanka if I remember correctly.. they were the Zimbabwe of this time
 
The only issue is when you look deep into those stats instead of just numbers. Imran won away series against India and England. Didn't lose a single Test match against India home or away. Didn't lose a single series against Windies home or away and also won a Test against them in their home and a 3-0 whitewash against Australia. Miandad most victories are against Lanka and NZ which also includes those matches when Imran rested because of injury or other reason so Miandad captained the team.

Miandad also won against England away from home.. alot of people say he was tactically better than Imran.. forget about his man management skills
 
Even as an Indian I feel so sad seeing Fans here belittling Misbah's performance today by comparing him to IK.. Rather than comparing him with IK you guys should cherish this moment and stop putting down your own stars..
 
Misbah has been a fabulous and a bit hard to understand unpredictable captain for pakistan.

But he is definitely one of the special leaders Pakistan has had.

He will be remembered for many positives and minuses down his career.
 
Miandad also won against England away from home.. alot of people say he was tactically better than Imran.. forget about his man management skills

it happens. Even Ricky Ponting lost against Bangladesh.
 
Miandad also won against England away from home.. alot of people say he was tactically better than Imran.. forget about his man management skills

No doubt Miandad was better tactically (although not a good leader) but you mentioned Imran had a great team for his victories so Miandad also had 2 Ws at their peak for that England tour. (Imran ddin't have Waqar for Windies,India and England while Wasim was still learning the tricks)
 
Didn't Imran Khan also lose a test match against Srilanka if I remember correctly.. they were the Zimbabwe of this time

Didn't Misbah lose to a far weaker Zimb team and Ponting with his great aussie team to Bangla? So lets enjoy this moment and stop the comparison bro it happens in cricket.
 
I was his massive critic a couple of years back. But he has grown on me, I will be very sad the day he retires. Top man.

Takes a big heart to accept that. Kudos to you!

He has converted many.
 
Takes a big heart to accept that. Kudos to you!

He has converted many.

He converted me because facts are facts, the way and the mess Afridi and Azhar have created in the LOI teams, esp the former has been abysmal. Then you get some of these mouthing off in the media. Misbah has been abused, bashed, criticised yet the man never replies back, always dignified.

People and players have had issues with Malik as captain, with Afridi as captain, with Butt as captain yet not a single player has ever spoken against Misbah, that counts a lot especially in our childish and unprofessional cricket setting.
 
2010:

Misbah gets dropped for the tour of England and he is so disappointed that he threatened to burn his cricket kit.

At 36, he probably realized that his international career was over.

2016:

Misbah, already Pakistan's most successful Test captain ever in terms of number of wins, becomes Pakistan's first captain to win a Test at Lord's in 20 years.

Whether you love him or hate him, this is a fairytale.
 
Still disagree.. Look at Pak fans reaction after one win overseas and IK had plenty of those against much tougher opponents.


But credit to Misbah for this win. his captaincy,selection were spot on. His first innings knock set the platform nicely for Pakistan to dominate in this game.

IK has been more hype then reality. He had excellent players around him. Now IK talent is showing in politics. Getting owned by NS and Zardari.
Misbah is by far the best captain ever


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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congratulations to Misbah & Pak team, esp Younis for a great victory.This is a wonderful morale-boosting independence day gift to the nation</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/764847709463470081">August 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Special congrats to Younis for showing guts and the right temperament to play long innings despite poor form</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/764848431248633857">August 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
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