Misbah-ul-Haq vs Sourav Ganguly as captain

[Haroon786]

Ganguly has win % 27 and IK has win % of 16
Ganguly won 21 of 48 tests compared to IK who won 14 of 48 tests
Under Ganguly India beat the ATG Australian team in 2001....IK never beaten the ATG WI team even after 4 series.

Imran Khan is the best test captain from Asia is a myth.

Tests:

Ganguly
Imran
Wadekar
Pataudi
Misbah/Dhoni

ODIs

MSD
Ganguly
Imran
Ranatunga
Wasim

In these order

Did IK play in the same era as Ganguly ? No he didn't, so it doesn't matter what the win % is.

Even Micheal Vaughan beat the Aussies, don't see him being trumpeted as some ATG captain ?

That WI team was the GOAT, they didn't lose a series in 20 years - no other team comes close, so the fact that Pakistan stood toe to toe with them and should have beaten them in 1988 had it not been for umpiring bias is IK's best accomplishment and no one from Asia has a similar achievement that can be considered on an equal scale to Imran's.

Imran is significantly better than Ganguly as a captain.

 

[street cricketer]

The 2002 Champions Trophy Final was rained off so Sri Lanka and India shared the trophy. Ganguly didn't "win it" for the sake of accuracy.

Trust me, as a young boy watching that final, I literally lost it during that final(s). On the final day, I think India bowled first and reduced Sri Lanka to a low total. When India were starting to chase it, the weather gods opened up. So the final was postponed to the reserve day which was scheduled the next day. Same old story. Sri Lanka reduced to a low total. India starting to chase. Bang. Rain again. It was when I realised Sri Lankan weather gods are the most powerful in the world.

In the presentation ceremony, when the trophy was given to both, Ganguly came with a stiff face. Sanath was beaming with a huge smile from end to end

 

[Haroon786]

Yeah right.

Obvious exaggeration, but he was certainly better.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

So Pakistan beat a weak Australia and then the point is made that India drew with an ATG Aussies away from home, dont you mean India drew against an Australian team missing some of their 2 main world class strike bowlers...? lets not get to carried away with indias draw against an under strength aussie side.

So what? Even without those 2 it was an ATG team. A team of Hayden, Gilly, Punter, Waugh brothers, Lee, McGill was a top team especially at home. Ganguly's India drawn a series there was a big achievement.

Add that with his team defeating the ATG Australia team in 2001, dont think any skipper from Asia got such achievements.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I know...but you can see the point I am making.

Anyways, as for 3rd test, Misbah was right in defending (situation demanded it) but he also allowed England to run away with the game when everyone could see England was playing for the Day 4 final session slaughter.

Team strength and captaincy are often confused (speaking in general).

No, he didn't. Our batting collapse™ happened.

Give Misbah Sehwag, Dravid, SRT and VVS and Kumble... and see what he does.

 

[street cricketer]

So Pakistan beat a weak Australia and then the point is made that India drew with an ATG Aussies away from home, dont you mean India drew against an Australian team missing some of their 2 main world class strike bowlers...? lets not get to carried away with indias draw against an under strength aussie side.

Ahh.. The strawman argument again

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Did IK play in the same era as Ganguly ? No he didn't, so it doesn't matter what the win % is.

Even Micheal Vaughan beat the Aussies, don't see him being trumpeted as some ATG captain ?

That WI team was the GOAT, they didn't lose a series in 20 years - no other team comes close, so the fact that Pakistan stood toe to toe with them and should have beaten them in 1988 had it not been for umpiring bias is IK's best accomplishment and no one from Asia has a similar achievement that can be considered on an equal scale to Imran's.

Imran is significantly better than Ganguly as a captain.

The fact that Imran never able to beat the ATG team he captained against and Ganguly did that will make the later a better skipper. Irrespective of eras we cannot discount the fact that Ganguly has much better W% compared to Imran.

Ganguly is significantly better than Imran as a skipper.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No, he didn't. Our batting collapse™ happened.

Give Misbah Sehwag, Dravid, SRT and VVS and Kumble... and see what he does.

Batting collapse was the fault for the loss.

But see what happ before.

That's why I said.....people are looking too much into results and too little into what really matters (the actual captaincy).

Whether batting clicked or flopped has NO bearing on Misbah's captaincy.

What happened in 3rd innings England batting...the strategy, the approach has everything.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Did IK play in the same era as Ganguly ? No he didn't, so it doesn't matter what the win % is.

Even Micheal Vaughan beat the Aussies, don't see him being trumpeted as some ATG captain ?

That WI team was the GOAT, they didn't lose a series in 20 years - no other team comes close, so the fact that Pakistan stood toe to toe with them and should have beaten them in 1988 had it not been for umpiring bias is IK's best accomplishment and no one from Asia has a similar achievement that can be considered on an equal scale to Imran's.

Misbah is significantly better than Ganguly as a captain.

Corrected.. While Imran is just Light years ahead of anyone India has ever put to field !!

 

[street cricketer]

Obvious exaggeration, but he was certainly better.

Both drew away against ATG sides. Imran's side lost less. Ganguly's side won more. Imran's side was very formidable at home. Ganguly's side competed a tad better away. Both sides weren't perfect. But both inspired a legacy for their respective countries. I would say there wasn't a huge difference between the two.

I have no problem if someone says Imran was better. But being better by a landslide and being much much better are quite clearly hyperboles by fans.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Immy was the greatest and the most iconic captain from Asia if you take into account everything.

Won't debate that.

Its the rest where I don't agree.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Corrected.. While Imran is just Light years ahead of anyone India has ever put to field !!

This kind of blanket statements what make Pak fans a laughing stock.

Most of the posters here have not seen Imran Khan live but the way they hype him up as if no player has the audacity to surpass him. Even though other players have better stats etc. but no one can surpass Imran. He is kind of a mystical player for fans which in reality he was not. People who have seen him live like [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], myself and others will vouch for the same. Imran was a great player (ATG) no doubt but this attitude that he was ligh year ahead in everything from everyone is blasphemy.

 

[street cricketer]

Immy was the greatest and the most iconic captain from Asia if you take into account everything.

Won't debate that.

Its the rest where I don't agree.

Yeah no disagreements with that.

He was clearly the best when you take both formats into consideration.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

This kind of blanket statements what make Pak fans a laughing stock.

Most of the posters here have not seen Imran Khan live but the way they hype him up as if no player has the audacity to surpass him. Even though other players have better stats etc. but no one can surpass Imran. He is kind of a mystical player for fans which in reality he was not. People who have seen him live like [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], myself and others will vouch for the same. Imran was a great player (ATG) no doubt but this attitude that he was ligh year ahead in everything from everyone is blasphemy.

Imran had set a gold standard, for all Asian teams, and a model of ruthlessness that was followed by all other Sub Continental Sides post the 80s era. How can you be so sure that Ganguly, who is your most celebrated captain, didn't take inspiration from the how Imran shepherd his troops from the mid 80s up until his 92 triumph. It takes a real man to accept where the model truly came from but I guess the real blasphemy in India would be to give credit to the opposition especially when that opposition is Pakistan.

Just like how showed in the award ceremony of how he turned around his game as he gave credit to Azharuddin I've never seen India man up to anything of such sorts. Clearly shows which lot has the bigger heart

One last thing, Peter Obrone just very recently claimed, in Athers documentary, that Imran is probably the greatest World Figure cricket has ever produced - I'd rather take his word than some random blokes on a faceless forum.

 

[Haroon786]

The fact that Imran never able to beat the ATG team he captained against and Ganguly did that will make the later a better skipper. Irrespective of eras we cannot discount the fact that Ganguly has much better W% compared to Imran.

Ganguly is significantly better than Imran as a skipper.

Lol no - WI are the GOAT team, the Aussies have no similar claims since they lost twice in a time span much shorter than the WI's era of domination.

 

[Haroon786]

Both drew away against ATG sides. Imran's side lost less. Ganguly's side won more. Imran's side was very formidable at home. Ganguly's side competed a tad better away. Both sides weren't perfect. But both inspired a legacy for their respective countries. I would say there wasn't a huge difference between the two.

I have no problem if someone says Imran was better. But being better by a landslide and being much much better are quite clearly hyperboles by fans.

Yes, Imran is better than Ganguly.

It is debatable whether Misbah is better than Ganguly that I will admit.

 

[Haroon786]

Corrected.. While Imran is just Light years ahead of anyone India has ever put to field !!

Well both are true, in my eyes.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Lol no - WI are the GOAT team, the Aussies have no similar claims since they lost twice in a time span much shorter than the WI's era of domination.

Now c'mmon...are you saying that Australian team led by Steve Waugh was not GOAT? You need to watch cricket more.

But irrespective, the point remains Imran never beaten that WI ATG team...where as Ganguly beaten the ATG Australian side.

Now you would give excuses - It was a different era, no team could beat WI back then, atleast Imran gave a fight etc. Let me tell you Ajit Wadekar's India beat that ATG WI team in a series in WI in 1971.

So Wadekar > Imran?

All the baseless arguments has no ground. I understand Imran is your fav sportsman which is absolutely fine but I disagree he was the best skipper from Asia. That is far from reality.

 

[street cricketer]

Yes, Imran is better than Ganguly.

It is debatable whether Misbah is better than Ganguly that I will admit.

No it isn't, but I'll let that one go.

 

[Haroon786]

Now c'mmon...are you saying that Australian team led by Steve Waugh was not GOAT? You need to watch cricket more.

But irrespective, the point remains Imran never beaten that WI ATG team...where as Ganguly beaten the ATG Australian side.

Now you would give excuses - It was a different era, no team could beat WI back then, atleast Imran gave a fight etc. Let me tell you Ajit Wadekar's India beat that ATG WI team in a series in WI in 1971.

So Wadekar > Imran?

All the baseless arguments has no ground. I understand Imran is your fav sportsman which is absolutely fine but I disagree he was the best skipper from Asia. That is far from reality.

No they weren't, the WI GOAT team/squad from 1975 to 1995 were better.

The team that Wadekar's India is probably a lot weaker than the team assembled by Lloyd in 1975.

You haven't given a single argument as to why Ganguly is better that you can backup with facts whilst I can.

 

[Haroon786]

No it isn't, but I'll let that one go.

Misbah Is better.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

No they weren't, the WI GOAT team/squad from 1975 to 1995 were better.

The team that Wadekar's India is probably a lot weaker than the team assembled by Lloyd in 1975.

You haven't given a single argument as to why Ganguly is better that you can backup with facts whilst I can.

I havent given a singje arguement? On the contrary you are fumblinh for logic.

I have alrady proved Ganguly has better W/L Ratio, more wins as a captain, beaten better teams home and away compared to IK.

There is no doubt Ganguly is way better than IK as a skipper.

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[Indian_Supporter]

In tests Ganguly and in ODIs MSD will go down as greatest skippers based on stats.



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[street cricketer]

Misbah Is better.

I guess..

 

[Ab Fan]

I saw Ganguly and I saw Misbah too. Ganguly is well ahead of Misbah. It's a no brainer. He transformed the Indian cricketing cullture from slightly better than minnow level team to the second best team of that phase.

 

[Haroon786]

I havent given a singje arguement? On the contrary you are fumblinh for logic.

I have alrady proved Ganguly has better W/L Ratio, more wins as a captain, beaten better teams home and away compared to IK.

There is no doubt Ganguly is way better than IK as a skipper.

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All that I have refuted and nothing substantive.

IK has series wins vs India home and away, vs England in England, Vs Australia and also is the only captain that fought tooth and nail with the greatest team of all time and came out unscathed.

There is no doubt who's better.

 

[Haroon786]

In tests Ganguly and in ODIs MSD will go down as greatest skippers based on stats.



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In Tests, Misbah has the better record statistically.

 

[giri26]

Okay everyone lets get this straight:

Misbah - Better than any Asian captain other than Imran (off course as he is a Pakistan captain too and a legend)
Younis - Better batsman than any Asian batsman especially the Indian ones (Only Miandad comes close guess why, he is a Pakistan legend too)
Yasir Shah - He is the best spinner in the history of the game, only Shane Warne comes close. Only because he called Yasir the best spinner.

Shafiq, Azhar, Sami - Better than any Asian batsman at the moment. Others don't even come close because they scored runs in England.

Aamir, Sohail and Wahab are better than any Asian fast bowlers except for Pakistan legends (Aamir though is the second coming of Akram).

If we are all okay with these statements, there is no reason to debate anything.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Rankings for Captains from the Sub Continent

1) IMRAN
2) MISBAH

DAYLIGHT

3) GANGULY / MIANDAD
4) WASIM

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Okay everyone lets get this straight:

Misbah - Better than any Asian captain other than Imran (off course as he is a Pakistan captain too and a legend)
Younis - Better batsman than any Asian batsman especially the Indian ones (Only Miandad comes close guess why, he is a Pakistan legend too)
Yasir Shah - He is the best spinner in the history of the game, only Shane Warne comes close. Only because he called Yasir the best spinner.

Shafiq, Azhar, Sami - Better than any Asian batsman at the moment. Others don't even come close because they scored runs in England.

Aamir, Sohail and Wahab are better than any Asian fast bowlers except for Pakistan legends (Aamir though is the second coming of Akram).

If we are all okay with these statements, there is no reason to debate anything.

I am so happy that you've finally seen the light !! The prayers have been answered and THE ALMIGHTY has shown his guidance.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] - I think we have a strong contender for the #Spirit Squad !!

 

[Indian_Supporter]

All that I have refuted and nothing substantive.

IK has series wins vs India home and away, vs England in England, Vs Australia and also is the only captain that fought tooth and nail with the greatest team of all time and came out unscathed.

There is no doubt who's better.

No but Your arguement is flawed. Ganguly also has series win in Pakistan, vs Australia etc.

But we have to look at the teams at that era into context. WI was the ATG team at Imran era but he never able to beat them even after 4 attempts.

In Ganguly's era Australia was the ATG team and he beat them in the very first attempt.

Also if you take overall W/L ratio into consideration

Ganguly >>> IK as test captain

No doubt.

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[Red Devil]

I am so happy that you've finally seen the light !! The prayers have been answered and THE ALMIGHTY has shown his guidance.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=47617]Red Devil[/MENTION] - I think we have a strong contender for the #Spirit Squad !!

Giri has always come across as a very sensible guy mA. Not easy to admit all this about your arch rivals, respect!

 

[Indian_Supporter]

In Tests, Misbah has the better record statistically.

Ganguly followed by IK in tests

Dhoni distance others in LOIs

From Asia.

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[sshakir411]

I havent given a singje arguement? On the contrary you are fumblinh for logic.

I have alrady proved Ganguly has better W/L Ratio, more wins as a captain, beaten better teams home and away compared to IK.

There is no doubt Ganguly is way better than IK as a skipper.

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yeah Ganguly the captain who could not win a world cup with the greatest batting side ever...got humiliated in the final despite having 3 out of 5 top batsmen of the world. That's a shame..IK won the WC with a very young and inexperienced side. Imran Khan is in fact light years ahead of Ganguly...your W/L ratio can take a hike because winning the world cup is the greatest prize.

 

[yasir]

Good comparison. If Misbah captains us to victory in Australia, he overtakes Ganguly becoming only second to Imran.

If this happen, we don't need a thread or discussion, then there is a day light between Misbah and everybody else...

Beating Australia in Australia is greatest thing for any asian team, three times more than winning world cup. Its hardest thing ever in Cricket, whoever does that will be the greatest in my books.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

yeah Ganguly the captain who could not win a world cup with the greatest batting side ever...got humiliated in the final despite having 3 out of 5 top batsmen of the world. That's a shame..IK won the WC with a very young and inexperienced side. Imran Khan is in fact light years ahead of Ganguly...your W/L ratio can take a hike because winning the world cup is the greatest prize.

I thought we are talking about tests here? So its proven that Ganguly is better than IK in tests.

As far as ODIs is concerned, your WC theory is flawed and I will tell you why. Imran got 2 chances to lift the WC as a skipper and chocked at home very first one in 87. In 92, Pak didnt had to face any ATG team. The only good team they faced SA they won due to DL.

Ganguly's 2003 WC team was a cut above the rest but they had to face the ATG Australian side. Also he never had the oppurtunity to captain India in any other WC. The only other global tournaments he captained was CT in Nairobi when he took the team to final and CT in 2002 when we were joint winners.

Even though we take this WC logic, then MSD is wayyyy ahead than any of them

So in ODIs its

MSD >>>>> Saurav>IK

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[Haroon786]

WI were a level above the Australian team and that is an undeniable fact - they didn't lose a series in 20 years while Australia lost 2 in a decade. So drawing with WI is a much bigger achievement.

Don't care about the W/L record, is Ponting better than Pataudi ?

IK is better and one biased Indian fan denying it doesn't change anything.

 

[Haroon786]

Ganguly followed by IK in tests

Dhoni distance others in LOIs

From Asia.

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No, Misbah has the best record statistically in Tests - 22 wins, best win %.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

No, Misbah has the best record statistically in Tests - 22 wins, best win %.

No but Misbah faced weaker teams. The only good team he faced SA...he manage to only draw at home. So its a flawed arguement.

Ganguly > IK

In that order

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[Indian_Supporter]

WI were a level above the Australian team and that is an undeniable fact - they didn't lose a series in 20 years while Australia lost 2 in a decade. So drawing with WI is a much bigger achievement.

Don't care about the W/L record, is Ponting better than Pataudi ?

IK is better and one biased Indian fan denying it doesn't change anything.

WI was a greater team no doubt but aust was an ATG team too. Its prob 19-20.

But the fact remains IK never beat that Windies team but Ganguly defeated the ATG Aussie side.

Ganguly> IK

Harsh fact

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[Haroon786]

No but Misbah faced weaker teams. The only good team he faced SA...he manage to only draw at home. So its a flawed arguement.

Ganguly > IK

In that order

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Read your own post - you said statistically and statistically Misbah is the best in Tests.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Read your own post - you said statistically and statistically Misbah is the best in Tests.

No but you are missing the point. You also need to take into account the quality of opposition.

Misbah never faced any ATG teams like Ganguly faced. The only good side he faced was SA and couldnt beat them.

So this W/L ratio is flawed.

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[Chief Destroyer]

If this happen, we don't need a thread or discussion, then there is a day light between Misbah and everybody else...

Beating Australia in Australia is greatest thing for any asian team, three times more than winning world cup. Its hardest thing ever in Cricket, whoever does that will be the greatest in my books.

Above Imran? Imran led us to our first ever series victory in England, drew three series with the GOAT Windies and were on the verge of beating them had it not been for biased umpiring.

 

[Haroon786]

WI was a greater team no doubt but aust was an ATG team too. Its prob 19-20.

But the fact remains IK never beat that Windies team but Ganguly defeated the ATG Aussie side.

Ganguly> IK

Harsh fact

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There is no comparison, WI were better and a whole level better - they didn't lose a series for 20 years whilst Australia lost twice in half that time and also drew with a weak WI team in 1999 IIRC, they did not have the same invincibility as the GOAT WI team.

Furthermore, had umpires been neutral in that 1988 series, Pakistan would be the only team to have beaten that WI team in their era of domination.

 

[Haroon786]

No but you are missing the point. You also need to take into account the quality of opposition.

Misbah never faced any ATG teams like Ganguly faced. The only good side he faced was SA and couldnt beat them.

So this W/L ratio is flawed.

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So W/L ratio is flawed now ? No wonder you were trumpeting it when comparing Ganguly with IK.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

There is no comparison, WI were better and a whole level better - they didn't lose a series for 20 years whilst Australia lost twice in half that time and also drew with a weak WI team in 1999 IIRC, they did not have the same invincibility as the GOAT WI team.

Furthermore, had umpires been neutral in that 1988 series, Pakistan would be the only team to have beaten that WI team in their era of domination.

That umpire logic is flawed again with a situation of ifs and buts. If not for umpire we would have won the series downunder in 2008. But its part and parcel of the game.

The fact that Ganguly beaten an ATG team of its era which IK couldnt. The fact that Ganguly has won more tests than IK by captaining the same amount of games, it clearly proves Ganguly is better than Imran.

And comparing with Misbah is beyond belief.

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[Indian_Supporter]

So W/L ratio is flawed now ? No wonder you were trumpeting it when comparing Ganguly with IK.

You need to take into account the opposition along with W/L ratio. Misbah stacked his stats by neating rubbish Aussie and SL teams.

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[The_Odd_One]

Ganguly was a better captain than Misbah and I think there should be no doubt about it.

However, no way was Ganguly better than Imran.

Ganguly averages 37 in tests as captain and 38.6 in ODIs which are below his career averages.

Imran averages 52 in tests as captain and 35 in ODIs which are way above his career averages. His test bowling average as a captain is 20.

Clearly the captaincy brought out the best in Imran. On the other hand, Ganguly's own performance suffered from captaincy.

Also, Imran is a world cup winning captain which is lacking in Ganguly's resume.

So, it is not wrong to say that Imran >>> Ganguly.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

MS Dhoni has better W/L ratio that Imran but no one says MS is a better test captain. That is because quality of opposition is not the same.

But Ganguly and IK almost faced the same quality oppositions and Ganguly has better stats. Hence he is better.

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[sshakir411]

Indian supporter trying to slice the cake in a thousand ways to somehow get Ganguly on top of IK...thankfully there are many smart Indians on here not taking part in this debate.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Indian supporter trying to slice the cake in a thousand ways to somehow get Ganguly on top of IK...thankfully there are many smart Indians on here not taking part in this debate.

This is their umpteenth feel-good/donplay-Pak&Misbah thread since Pak won test match in Oval.

Pattern is always the same, 1 of them makes an absurd post and other start circle-jerking.

PP is losing its quality @Saj

 

[street cricketer]

This is their umpteenth feel-good/donplay-Pak&Misbah thread since Pak won test match in Oval.

Pattern is always the same, 1 of them makes an absurd post and other start circle-jerking.

PP is losing its quality @Saj

Do you realise that the OP is a Pakistani..

And many other similar threads have been started by Pak posters.

 

[Prince_]

Indian supporter trying to slice the cake in a thousand ways to somehow get Ganguly on top of IK...thankfully there are many smart Indians on here not taking part in this debate.

Perhaps it's because majority of us don't see the point in mentioning the obvious. As a captain ganguly is miles ahead of Imran in any set of standards.


He won series against the mighty aussies(arguably the greatest test team to ever play the game of cricket), won against England in England, won champions trophy and above all he groomed a set of players who later played a significant role in winning the 2nd world cup for India.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Misbah has to first overtake IK.

He can't. IK shared Captaincy with Miandad, often sitting out of many a series due to injury or the Series was too boring and easy. Hence the lesser victories. IK was an attacking captain he was talent spotter as well. He hand picked Akram, Waqar, Inzamam, Aaqib, Abdul Qadir. Ordered His own team to the Selection committee, Had Absolute control of his own Players. Pakistan was a talented team but a team that lacked belief and mostly lost even from a winning position. Imran changed that. Imran took a hopelessly struggling team to win a world cup. Misbah tried but could not.
Misbah is a great Captain, he is the Captain that saved Pakistan from the Spot fixing Disaster, he has the most wins But is not world Class like Imran.

 

[sshakir411]

Perhaps it's because majority of us don't see the point in mentioning the obvious. As a captain ganguly is miles ahead of Imran in any set of standards.


He won series against the mighty aussies(arguably the greatest test team to ever play the game of cricket), won against England in England, won champions trophy and above all he groomed a set of players who later played a significant role in winning the 2nd world cup for India.

the smart wasn't referring to you, by any means...but whaaa ever

 

[Itachi]

Misbah is a great Asian captain. No doubt. The way he built the team after fixing saga is praiseworthy.

But ganguly was a visionary. He could see what others couldn't. He built a platform where team india can flourish. Where the new generation can take over from the old one.

With Misbah, it ends with his retirement. Same as Imran. Imran was probably the greatest captain, but he failed to leave a legacy, a vision.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Do you realise that the OP is a Pakistani..

And many other similar threads have been started by Pak posters.

Pattern is always the same, 1 of them makes an absurd post and other start circle-jerking.

Addressing posts here, not threads.

In any case, point still stands haters hatin' of playaz

 

[#GreenRoars]

Misbah, no doubt a great player but Sourav Captain > Misbah Captain.

 

[Slog]

Now c'mmon...are you saying that Australian team led by Steve Waugh was not GOAT? You need to watch cricket more.

But irrespective, the point remains Imran never beaten that WI ATG team...where as Ganguly beaten the ATG Australian side.

Now you would give excuses - It was a different era, no team could beat WI back then, atleast Imran gave a fight etc. Let me tell you Ajit Wadekar's India beat that ATG WI team in a series in WI in 1971.

So Wadekar > Imran?

All the baseless arguments has no ground. I understand Imran is your fav sportsman which is absolutely fine but I disagree he was the best skipper from Asia. That is far from reality.

Lmaoo ) )

The 1971 WI team was not an ATG

Did you think if you wrote a wall of text and sneaked that in no one would notice?

 

[Haroon786]

That umpire logic is flawed again with a situation of ifs and buts. If not for umpire we would have won the series downunder in 2008. But its part and parcel of the game.

The fact that Ganguly beaten an ATG team of its era which IK couldnt. The fact that Ganguly has won more tests than IK by captaining the same amount of games, it clearly proves Ganguly is better than Imran.

And comparing with Misbah is beyond belief.

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You are using the same circular logic, rehashing the same thing over and over again won't make your argument anymore different.

The umpire logic is not flawed, had there been neutral umpires, Pakistan would have won the series. In 2008, neutral umpires existed.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Lmaoo ) )

The 1971 WI team was not an ATG

Did you think if you wrote a wall of text and sneaked that in no one would notice?

A team of Sobers, Lloyd, Kalicharan etc were not bad by any means. Irrespective, no one says Wadekar is great just because he has beaten that WI tea in 71.

We are debating Ganguly vs Imran here. Now both these captains lead their respective teams against an ATG side of that era. Imran could only able to manage a draw and not able to beat them once even after 4 attempts. Ganguly has won against the ATG team in his era.

No doubt Ganguly was a better test skipper than Imran.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

You are using the same circular logic, rehashing the same thing over and over again won't make your argument anymore different.

The umpire logic is not flawed, had there been neutral umpires, Pakistan would have won the series. In 2008, neutral umpires existed.

Irrespective of neutral umpires, point remains we got robbed at the Sydney test in 2008. We also would have won a series in Australia if not for umpires. But cricket is not played with ifs and buts.

Imran never manage to beat the ATG team at his era where as Ganguly did. Also Ganguly has better W/L ratio captaining the equal amount of test matches.

Ganguly >>>Imran

 

[Slog]

Irrespective of neutral umpires, point remains we got robbed at the Sydney test in 2008. We also would have won a series in Australia if not for umpires. But cricket is not played with ifs and buts.

Imran never manage to beat the ATG team at his era where as Ganguly did. Also Ganguly has better W/L ratio captaining the equal amount of test matches.

Ganguly >>>Imran

Lmao at robbed of a series win. At best you would have drawn the series

Btw you quoted win percentage earlier and by that measure Misbah would trump almost all under discussion.

Imran sat out a lot of easy series wins against New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwr too btw as he couldn't care much to destroy weaker teams at home. That's why Javed has as many wins as Imran

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Lmao at robbed of a series win. At best you would have drawn the series

Btw you quoted win percentage earlier and by that measure Misbah would trump almost all under discussion.

Imran sat out a lot of easy series wins against New Zealand, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwr too btw as he couldn't care much to destroy weaker teams at home. That's why Javed has as many wins as Imran

Already explained before. Win% is one way of looking at things but also need to consider the opposition. MS Dhoni Win% is 45...compared to Imran's 29. But we all agree MS is not a better test captain than IK because he got easy opponents at home. In Misbah's case oppositions were even easier. The only tough (borderline ATG) team he faced i.e SA he could only draw the series that too at home.

Both Ganguly and Imran faced quality opponents. Ganguly went on to beat the ATG team he faced which Imran failed. Also because Ganguly has better Win%...its clear to me Ganguly is a better test skipper.

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[Indian_Supporter]

Also Haroon, that WI was unbeatable for 20 years is not true at all. Hence I say people over hype the past.

West Indies lost a series in India in 1978/79 tour. Gavaskar lead India team beat WI 1-0 in a six match test series.

Australia beaten WI in Aust in 1976. It went 5-1 to Australia in a 6 match test series.

New zealand beat them in 79 in NZ.

Just because Pakistan couldnt beat them does not mean they were unbeatable for 20 years.

Classic case of hyping the past without knowing the facts.

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[WhenSultansBowled]

Also Haroon, that WI was unbeatable for 20 years is not true at all. Hence I say people over hype the past.

Man, are you desperate! So now you are gonna downplay ATG WIs just to mention Ganguly alongside an alpha like Imran?

Youtube: Fire in Babylon

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Man, are you desperate! So now you are gonna downplay ATG WIs just to mention Ganguly alongside an alpha like Imran?

Youtube: Fire in Babylon

No desperation but was correcting the fact of that poster. As per him WI was not ATG in 1971 which I agree. He went onto say Windies became ATG in 75 and was unbeatable for 20 years. This is incorrect and as I posted previously Ind, Aust, NZ beaten them post 75. They were indeed the best team ever no doubt but this exaggeration was too much.

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[Haroon786]

Irrespective of neutral umpires, point remains we got robbed at the Sydney test in 2008. We also would have won a series in Australia if not for umpires. But cricket is not played with ifs and buts.

Imran never manage to beat the ATG team at his era where as Ganguly did. Also Ganguly has better W/L ratio captaining the equal amount of test matches.

Ganguly >>>Imran

No - the gulf between the WI team and Australia team is enough that almost winning a series vs WI in WI > beating Australia on doctored pitches.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

No - the gulf between the WI team and Australia team is enough that almost winning a series vs WI in WI > beating Australia on doctored pitches.

Not true and another lie like West Indies was unbeatable for 20 years. Both Aust and WI were great team. But Ganguly beat the ATG Aussie side, Gavaskar beat the ATG WI side..Imran could only draw. Not sure how IK is better.

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[greatone]

Man, are you desperate! So now you are gonna downplay ATG WIs just to mention Ganguly alongside an alpha like Imran?

Youtube: Fire in Babylon

Is mentioning the right facts ''desperation''?

@ The bolded part

 

[Haroon786]

Not true and another lie like West Indies was unbeatable for 20 years. Both Aust and WI were great team. But Ganguly beat the ATG Aussie side, Gavaskar beat the ATG WI side..Imran could only draw. Not sure how IK is better.

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I have checked their record and they were unbeaten for 15 years between 1980-1995, which is still at least 3 times better than that Australian team's best undefeated streak.

 

[Prince_]

Is mentioning the right facts ''desperation''?

@ The bolded part

Where did he write facts. He was chest thumping about how Imran drew a series against the great West indies who were unbeaten for 20 long years which was a blatant lie.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

I have checked their record and they were unbeaten for 15 years between 1980-1995, which is still at least 3 times better than that Australian team's best undefeated streak.

Thanks for correcting yourself. That 3 times figure is your figment of imagination...no one can debate that. But the point is both the teams were ATG. Ganguly beaten the ATG team during his time which Imran failed. Combine that with Win%....Ganguly was better than Imran as test captain.

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[greatone]

Where did he write facts. He was chest thumping about how Imran drew a series against the great West indies who were unbeaten for 20 long years which was a blatant lie.

I was talking about the post where [MENTION=139315]Indian_Supporter[/MENTION] corrected [MENTION=139649]WhenSultansBowled[/MENTION] 's post. I wasn't supporting [MENTION=139649]WhenSultansBowled[/MENTION].

 

[Prince_]

I have checked their record and they were unbeaten for 15 years between 1980-1995, which is still at least 3 times better than that Australian team's best undefeated streak.

Glad to see that u've corrected urself mate. Now, do u agree with the fact that gavaskar was a better captain than Imran since he had won a series against the mighty unbeaten windies which Imran Khan couldn't do so in his entire career

 

[Prince_]

[MENTION=141853]greatone[/MENTION] Apologies mate. I agree with u then

 

[greatone]

[MENTION=141853]greatone[/MENTION] Apologies mate. I agree with u then

No worries bro.

 

[street cricketer]

No - the gulf between the WI team and Australia team is enough that almost winning a series vs WI in WI > beating Australia on doctored pitches.

Now this is getting desperate.

Are you sure the wickets in Pakistan during Imran's time weren't "doctored" and were all fair and square to the tourists?

 

[Haroon786]

Thanks for correcting yourself. That 3 times figure is your figment of imagination...no one can debate that. But the point is both the teams were ATG. Ganguly beaten the ATG team during his time which Imran failed. Combine that with Win%....Ganguly was better than Imran as test captain.

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No it isn't - how many years did Australia without losing a Test series when they had those ATGs in their lineup ?

Also,you're not convincing no one with the constant spamming of the win % - that has nothing to do with the comparison since the two played in different eras as aforementioned.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

No it isn't - how many years did Australia without losing a Test series when they had those ATGs in their lineup ?

Also,you're not convincing no one with the constant spamming of the win % - that has nothing to do with the comparison since the two played in different eras as aforementioned.

Its not only about how many years. Ask anyone in this forum if Steve Waugh's Australian team is an ATG or not. I myself admit WI team was better was Australian team was damb good.

But IK couldnt beat WI...where as Ganguly beat the Aust side

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