Mohammad Abbas and Yasir Shah; Is there still some fire left or are they finished?

[Titan24]

3 years ago Abbas and Yasir were phenomenal and were key bowlers for Pak especially in UAE and assistive conditions.

My observations are that they both are lacking the penetration with their bowling and on top of that offer very little not nothing on the field and with the bat (Especially Abbas). Yasir struggles to complete his action since his back and hip issues which prevents more revs and spin and Abbas since his shoulder injury has lost few kph of pace which is a lot for him especially when he is already not that quick (Allowing batsmen to just stand out).

Their poor returns are manifested by stats as well in last 2 or so years. However, just as they were selected in the squad for WI management with their past reputations brought them straight away into the team and they both failed to deliver. Recent loss against WI is more to do with the batting but, lack of contribution from these two senior players raises questions.

What to you guys think? Is their still some match changing performances left in them and can help in Pak test team to improve its stature? Or Pak management should look elsewhere for solutions.

 

[Savak]

Good teams make tough calls and move on guys who are no longer delivering for fresh players. Players do not and should not play on reputation forever in international professional cricket

 

[Barragan]

Both are finished.

If there is any gas left, then it would be in Yasir and he needs to prove it by taking wickets in FC.

 

[Titan24]

Good teams make tough calls and move on guys who are no longer delivering for fresh players. Players do not and should not play on reputation forever in international professional cricket

Exactly, I feel the same way. Such calls based upon reputations might give comfort to management by reading their names on paper but, sometimes in reality that can cost you matches.

 

[Zaz]

Im surprised two players dropped in the last series walk straight back in the team

How does that work? Why was a winning combination changed Players playing on the seniority card again

 

[Titan24]

Im surprised two players dropped in the last series walk straight back in the team

How does that work? Why was a winning combination changed Players playing on the seniority card again

I was equally surprised. Is there no coordination between selectors and team management? Two guys get dropped from squad, then selected again and come straight back into the team. Very odd to say the least.

 

[Rana]

Imran Butt
Azhar Ali
Yasir Shah
Mohammad Abbas


These 4 guys need to be replaced as soon as possible

 

[Zaz]

Exactly, I feel the same way. Such calls based upon reputations might give comfort to management by reading their names on paper but, sometimes in reality that can cost you matches.

Pakistan always has played players on past reputations
Its crazy

I mean what has naumam done wrong that yasir comes straight past him into the eleven from being dropped in the previous squad

 

[Titan24]

Pakistan always has played players on past reputations
Its crazy

I mean what has naumam done wrong that yasir comes straight past him into the eleven from being dropped in the previous squad

Nauman has two 5fers with the ball and 97, 45, 24 with the bat in 4 test matches (Averaging 19 with the ball and 34 with the bat). I doubt many teams would be dropping a player after such a start to his test career. Its just disrupting his confidence rather than allowing him to use that and build upon that.

 

[PakHammer]

Yasir will be dropped for the second match. It be interesting whether they bring in Saud to strengthen the batting or Nauman.

I hate Yasir's lazy attitude to his batting. In both innings, he is capable of hitting 15-30 runs and in the context of this game than could have won us the match. But he just thinks it's funny and laughing like a clown when he bats.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan should have groomed a spinner long back , but Pakistan Cricket Board and management are simply incompetent.

 

[Savak]

Mohd Wasim needs to be held accountable here. It was ultimately his call to recall these players he dropped when they showed no signs of having proved their form and whether they had improved upon the weaknesses, problems they exhibited when they were dropped or Abbas

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Mohd Wasim needs to be held accountable here. It was ultimately his call to recall these players he dropped when they showed no signs of having proved their form and whether they had improved upon the weaknesses, problems they exhibited when they were dropped or Abbas

Abbas had an excellent county stint and given his experience with the dukes ball it would’ve been silly to not select him.

Pakistan selected a fine XI but I think Numan was hard done by here.

Abdullah though needs to play next game for me with Imran being dropped, slips fielding cannot be your only ticket into the team.

 

[Titan24]

Abbas had an excellent county stint and given his experience with the dukes ball it would’ve been silly to not select him.

I think issue is the long term direction for of the test team for different conditions as well as lack of effectiveness of Abbas with older ball. Current Abbas on a day can be handy in very specific conditions and if we talk about horses for courses strategy than we can justify his selection here. Though even here in supportive conditions the 3 wickets he took were within the first 3-5 overs of the first and second new ball of WI first innings. If you want to regularly take 20 test wickets you need bowlers who can deliver in different phases which unfortunately I think Abbas has been struggling to do for sometime.

Also is he really a bowler who is going to give chance or win Pak matches in Aus, SA and many other conditions? He still has the same limitations and same lack of impact with the older ball which he had when he was dropped.

I think he is currently not looking like a bower who can win you a match by grabbing it from opposition, like Hassan along with support from Shaheen did vs SA or even how both tried in this match. When you ball at 125kph you need to bring in something extraordinary which in his peak maybe Philander did but, even he relied on certain conditions to be effective. Abbas pre shoulder injury was a very good bowler but since 2018 he hasn’t been as penetrative.

 

[wrongun]

Abbas took 3 wickets at <25 in the match. Considering he only bowled 12 overs second innings, he did his part. Not outstanding, but not poor at all.

Weirder part for me was that Yasir didn't bowl at all on the final day, on a wearing pitch that was taking turn. Vs the tail too, which legspinners are great at clearing out cheaply. The captain has no faith in him in ideal circumstances, why is he selected?

 

[Titan24]

Abbas took 3 wickets at <25 in the match. Considering he only bowled 12 overs second innings, he did his part. Not outstanding, but not poor at all.

Weirder part for me was that Yasir didn't bowl at all on the final day, on a wearing pitch that was taking turn. Vs the tail too, which legspinners are great at clearing out cheaply. The captain has no faith in him in ideal circumstances, why is he selected?

Abbas was really good with the new ball in the first innings however, as mentioned all 3 of his wickets came within the first 3-5 overs of the two new balls. After that his bowling was flat with with not much trouble for batsmen. Pak already had Faheem who is generally used for the holding job however even he was able to take 3 wickets and all 3 at crucial times when partnerships were developing.

Abbas is extremely accurate and rarely gives out much runs however, in tests while keeping it tight you need wickets as well in crucial junctures or cause some trouble for batsmen in those times to create that extra pressure. Also him bowling only 12 overs in the 2nd innings shows that even Babar wasnt sure he can penetrate here. I think Abbas is lacking that and lack of wickets during important junctures can be crucial in the result of the match bit like today.

 

[BaankeJi]

Abbas can stay. Yasir should go back to domestic cricket.

 

[mon858]

Abbas did fine on comeback test , lot of accuracy and control and took advantage of Duke ball experience. No issues there for this test.
Biggest culprit was our insipid batting, otherwise great was ours. Second biggest culprit selecting Yasir Shah, whie seems way past his time. Third biggest issue not trying 2 overs from Yasir to tail when we still ha e 20 to 40 runs left. If at any time he could have bought a wicket in the match that was the time.
Given current squad we need to replace yasir with Nauman. Ideally would like to try Dahani but he will need to wait a bit unless any of the 3 pacers having a niggle.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yasir lacks fitness. He needs to be dropped till he gets his fitness back. If fit he will be a good bowler.

Abbas is accurate bowler with the ability to seam the ball. But his lack of pace means international players will defang him.

He will bully domestic and county players all life long. But some domestic giants are never going to be world class test players.

 

[Ahmed216]

Hasan and shaheen are doing ok leading the attack. Why do we need abbas whose limitations as a bowler are so evident. If we can hand debuts to naseem musa etc in Aus then why cant we debut dahani in WI.
Yasir Shah is a useless bowler now. He should be dropped for a simple reason that he leaks too many runs.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Abbas took 3 wickets at <25 in the match. Considering he only bowled 12 overs second innings, he did his part. Not outstanding, but not poor at all.

Weirder part for me was that Yasir didn't bowl at all on the final day, on a wearing pitch that was taking turn. Vs the tail too, which legspinners are great at clearing out cheaply. The captain has no faith in him in ideal circumstances, why is he selected?

The fact he bowled only 12 overs in the second shows a complete lack of faith from the skipper.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I think issue is the long term direction for of the test team for different conditions as well as lack of effectiveness of Abbas with older ball. Current Abbas on a day can be handy in very specific conditions and if we talk about horses for courses strategy than we can justify his selection here. Though even here in supportive conditions the 3 wickets he took were within the first 3-5 overs of the first and second new ball of WI first innings. If you want to regularly take 20 test wickets you need bowlers who can deliver in different phases which unfortunately I think Abbas has been struggling to do for sometime.

Also is he really a bowler who is going to give chance or win Pak matches in Aus, SA and many other conditions? He still has the same limitations and same lack of impact with the older ball which he had when he was dropped.

I think he is currently not looking like a bower who can win you a match by grabbing it from opposition, like Hassan along with support from Shaheen did vs SA or even how both tried in this match. When you ball at 125kph you need to bring in something extraordinary which in his peak maybe Philander did but, even he relied on certain conditions to be effective. Abbas pre shoulder injury was a very good bowler but since 2018 he hasn’t been as penetrative.

Yes, agreed. Abbas is just too slow for me. I mean Shahid Afridi bowls quicker than he does lol. My 2 cents on the matter get someone like Dhani, and please no Naseem Shah the guy is about as dumb as a rock.

Not to mention as well Abbas got the easiest out of form batsmen.

Hats off to WI they came to play and we were just sloppy in the field otherwise result would be different.

 

[MenInG]

Yasir lacks fitness. He needs to be dropped till he gets his fitness back. If fit he will be a good bowler.

Abbas is accurate bowler with the ability to seam the ball. But his lack of pace means international players will defang him.

He will bully domestic and county players all life long. But some domestic giants are never going to be world class test players.

Yasir cannot spin the ball any more.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There is something left.

But staying on Yasir Shah: if he bowls three overs on a wearing Day 4 pitch, and zero to tail-enders, who really is to blame for his lack of success? He himself, or Babar Azam?

 

[shaz619]

Abbas was unable to do what Siraj/Shami/Bumra did today and he can’t field either, the guy is a hack - Pakistan has truly fallen to shocking lows, such a rich history and that joke is your answer

 

[Savak]

Would Team India persist with the likes of Abbas and Yasir gaggaing over their overall records vs recent form?

The answer is a resounding No. Champion teams make ruthless decisions

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yasir cannot spin the ball any more.

Neither could Kumble.He needs to vary his pace.

Yasir's hip pivot is gone. I suspect thats due to lack of fitness. Or just tiredness.

His shoulder drops by the second spell and he starts bowling rubbish. A 4 ball every few balls.

Is he carrying any injury?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Abbas was unable to do what Siraj/Shami/Bumra did today and he can’t field either, the guy is a hack - Pakistan has truly fallen to shocking lows, such a rich history and that joke is your answer

He is 15km slower. At 125, international batsmen will make the late adjustment.

 

[MenInG]

Neither could Kumble.He needs to vary his pace.

Yasir's hip pivot is gone. I suspect thats due to lack of fitness. Or just tiredness.

His shoulder drops by the second spell and he starts bowling rubbish. A 4 ball every few balls.

Is he carrying any injury?

Thing is if you as a casual observer can see this - why can't the Pakistan management?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Thing is if you as a casual observer can see this - why can't the Pakistan management?

I have interest in cricket.

Management ko hai interest?

Bhai kuch karo, is management ko badal do. Bik gayi hai ye mangmint

 

[Guardian]

The real test of your bowling attack is when you're defending low scores like 168. So kudos to Shaheen, Hasan and Faheem for doing an excellent job taking it that close to victory. Yasir and Abbas just needed another wicket between them to bring us home and they failed. As soon as Windies batters stood out of the crease, Abbas was fully negated.

Let's please give a resurgent Naseem (his pace is back) and Dhani both a go in the next game. The attack would just be mouth-watering and there won't be much pressure on these two with Shaheen, Hasan and Faheem carrying most of the weight. What's the worst that could happen? We lose and the management gets bashed? That's already happening. There's not much to lose so let's go ahead with this with the chance we'll uncover some real gems.

 

[Titan24]

Neither could Kumble.He needs to vary his pace.

Yasir's hip pivot is gone. I suspect thats due to lack of fitness. Or just tiredness.

His shoulder drops by the second spell and he starts bowling rubbish. A 4 ball every few balls.

Is he carrying any injury?

He have had back as well as hip issues in last 2-4 years which have impacted his pivot as you rightly mentioned.

Was excluded from Zim series (Which he really disliked) and he was asked to come to NCA during that time for rehab and fitness drills, as per different news and sources he missed quite a few days and feedback to selectors from NCA trainers wasn’t that good.

However, he got in the squad and then was drafted straight to the playing XI over Nauman Ali who averages 19 with the ball and 34 with the bat in 4 test matches he has played.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

We need Nauman to replace Yasir. He can bat better too. Also, need a good pacer from domestics to replace Abbas. Likes of Dhani aren't experienced enough.

 

[MenInG]

Waqar on Yasir:

"Pakistan spinners have done a great job in the last year or so; Nauman Ali and Yasir Shah have bowled well and sometimes you get a pitch where there is less support for a spinner; Both sides' spinners didn't get that many wickets"

"Yasir Shah has a good track record against the West Indies and has a lot of experience; Whilst Nauman is a good spinner, we felt that the pitch did not have so much support such that we would have played a finger spinner"

"Lets not forget that Yasir Shah is a match-winner for Pakistan and he has so much games for us that we cannot ignore him"

 

[Titan24]

"Lets not forget that Yasir Shah is a match-winner for Pakistan and he has so much games for us that we cannot ignore him"

I guess that is where the issue is. Yasir was a world class spinner on assistive surfaces uptil 2018 (When Pak was playing in UAE however, returns from that point have diminished big time.

Yes Yasir has won Pak quite a few tests but, can’t think of many in last 3 years. He was decent in a match or two in Eng and a test vs SA in Pak but, nothing earth shattering even in those games.

“We cant ignore him” is a pretty odd statement. If he is the same Yasir as 2018 or is in tremendous form than that makes sense otherwise this is what many others have pointed out as well that your decisions shouldn’t be based upon past performances rather what you a player can do now.

 

[MenInG]

I guess that is where the issue is. Yasir was a world class spinner on assistive surfaces uptil 2018 (When Pak was playing in UAE however, returns from that point have diminished big time.

Yes Yasir has won Pak quite a few tests but, can’t think of many in last 3 years. He was decent in a match or two in Eng and a test vs SA in Pak but, nothing earth shattering even in those games.

“We cant ignore him” is a pretty odd statement. If he is the same Yasir as 2018 or is in tremendous form than that makes sense otherwise this is what many others have pointed out as well that your decisions shouldn’t be based upon past performances rather what you a player can do now.

Problem is to drop Yasir will be a brave decision as Pak management think of him as the match-winner he was on last tour of the Windies.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Problem is to drop Yasir will be a brave decision as Pak management think of him as the match-winner he was on last tour of the Windies.

This is a disease that affects asians. For years India kept playing bhajji.

 

[shamaan]

I'f the pitches spin then yes play yasir but if thier is no turn play a spinner who can keep it tight.

 

[sweep_shot]

I feel Pakistan should move on from Yasir Shah. Let youngsters come in.

Abbas can still play for a bit.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yasir is short of rhythm and game time. He will come back fine. He bowled well against SA at home and was our best bowler on the last year's England tour.

For Abbas though, I feel he may get some wickets against weak teams but the top batters aren't going to give him anything at 120kph. I can see the return of Rahat Ali or even Imran Khan coming soon. Although I would pick Junaid regardless of his form, he has the ability to get good seam movement and reverses the ball too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Problem is to drop Yasir will be a brave decision as Pak management think of him as the match-winner he was on last tour of the Windies.

WI were always going to make seam friendly wickets as they have been doing so in last 3 years which has brought them some great success. It was our management's inability to read the pitch. A fifth pacer could have been brought in like NZ have been doing recently but then again, we can hardly pick 3 proper frontline test fast bowlers let alone 4.

 

[Junaids]

They are both well past their best.

Yasir Shah is probably around 37 or 38 years old. His superpower was accuracy, but he lost that around 2018, and he is a shadow of his former self. We saw in 2020 in England at Old Trafford that he could no longer win a Test in the sort of situation in which he could in 2016.

Mohammad Abbas used to be just quick enough to make a Dukes ball talk. He is probably also around 36 or 37 years of age, and it has been apparent for the last 2 years that he can still bowl with great economy, but his strike rate is just awful. At his best in a Test he may have figures across 2 innings of:

27-10-65-2
25-10-70-0.

I don't think that those figures would be a problem if he could bat. But the 2021 version of Mohammad Abbas is basically Faheem Ashraf Minus His Batting.